#spn 4.15

[scoobydoodean]

I just wish he trusted me. Tell me again how weak I am. How I hold you back.

Supernatural | 4.08, 4.10, 4.14, 4.15, 4.16, 4.18, 4.21

[lower-the-volume]

death takes a holiday

[ballsdeepinturbohell]

SPN 4.15 - Death Takes a Holiday

I’m so sad I forgot about Pamela 😭😭 She deserved better :((

I’m glad the reaper came back tho! I just think she’s neat 🥰

(Obligatory Cas screencap)

[castiellesbian]

Robbie Thompson:

7.06 Slash Fiction

7.12 Time After Time

7.20 The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo

8.04 Bitten

8.11 LARP and the Real Girl

8.17 Goodbye Stranger

8.20 Pac-Man Fever

9.04 Slumber Party

9.11 First Born

9.18 Meta Fiction

10.05 Fan Fiction

10.11 There's No Place Like Home

10.18 Book of the Damned

10.20 Angel Heart

11.04 Baby

11.11 Into the Mystic

11.16 Safe House

11.20 Don't Call Me Shurley

Jeremy Carver:

3.04 Sin City

3.08 A Very Supernatural Christmas

3.11 Mystery Spot

3.14 Long-Distance Call

4.03 In the Beginning

4.11 Family Remains

4.15 Death Takes a Holiday

4.20 The Rapture

5.03 Free to Be You and Me

5.08 Changing Channels

5.15 Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid

5.18 Point of No Return

8.01 We Need to Talk About Kevin

8.23 Sacrifice

9.01 I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here

9.23 Do You Believe in Miracles?

10.01 Black

10.23 Brother's Keeper

11.01 Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire

[dotthings]

Back on my slow, full series rewatch of SPN and noticing some things in S4 about the theme of Sam and Dean’s specialness and Dean’s love/hate relationship with hunting and the nature of Sam and Dean as heroes.

Sam post first. I’ll post the Dean one separately.

In season 4 leading up to 4.15 Death Takes a Holiday (written by Jeremy Carver) Sam’s been training with Ruby, drinking demon blood, and developing his demon-related powers more strongly. Dean’s been uneasy about that. And running alongside this is Sam increasingly growing drunk on power, as well as his detachment and sense of specialness.

SAM Look, I don't want them to die, either, Dean, but there's a natural order. DEAN You're kidding, right? SAM What? DEAN You don't see the irony in that? I mean, you and me, we're like the poster boys of the unnatural order. All we do is ditch death. SAM Yeah, but the normal rules don't really apply to us, do they? DEAN stares. DEAN We're no different than anybody else. SAM I'm infected with demon blood. You've been to hell. DEAN looks away. SAM Look, I know you want to think of yourself as Joe the Plumber, Dean, but you're not. Neither am I. The sooner you accept that, the better off you're gonna be.

It’s not that Sam is 100% wrong. Their job, their lives, are unusual, they do have to deal with weirdness most people don’t, in a highly dangerous, unpaid job, Sam does have demon blood powers, Dean has been to hell. But there’s also a bunch of things in Sam’s pov here that is linked to his S4 overall arc of going off the rails, moving away from who he is.

Way back in S4, there’s in-story comment on how Sam and Dean have plot armor while other characters don’t. Via Sam expressing an alarming sense of superiority—rules don’t apply to them, if other people die too bad it’s the natural order, they’re special. This isn’t Sam (and I really appreciate Sam’s sense of horror during the S14 reveal about the plot armor). Sam’s got his head twisted around here. Sam’s talk about specialness screams of Sam falling for Ruby’s cosmic trap, priming him to get where he needs to be to set Lucifer free.

One of the things that was so appealing to me about SPN is Sam and Dean’s ordinariness as heroes. They’re just a couple of guys from Lawrence, Kansas yanked into the world of the supernatural. They’re both the everyperson pov, while they’re also both outsiders and “freaks.” Sam and Dean often have to reject “great destinies” that cosmic beings try to force upon them, they rebel, tear up the pages, make the story their own. Free will was always a big theme on the show. Rebelling against the cosmic being manipulated system.

[spngeorg]

Episode 75: 4.15 Death Takes a Holiday

RIP Pamela. RIP Dean beginning to feel even remotely good about himself. RIP Sam’s secrets (well... soon... we the audience have seen a glimpse, but Dean is still getting stonewalled...)

This is a hard episode, and even more so because it follows several MotW episodes and wrenches us back into the big mytharc plots. But also because we can watch Sam completely abandon the concept of being “careful” with his demon powers and “not letting it get too far” that he’d promised Dean earlier this season. It hurts.

We watch Dean regain memories of one of the worst days of his life and have to reconcile all of that on the fly while facing off against the demon who tortured him in hell for forty years. It’s a lot.

And Cas... he’s still “other.” He’s still an outsider and not a friend or even an ally. Right here, he looks a lot more like someone just using Dean for his own purposes, which is also kinda scary how easily Sam and Dean both just... believed it had been Bobby sending them info on this case all along. What is even real? What’s the deal with this natural order that Sam has accepted he might not really be part of, while Dean struggles to accept himself only to have even that ripped away by the end? Ow.

Supplemental links for this week’s episode include:

The Superwiki page for this episode

My tumblr tag for this episode

But especially these posts:

Rewatch notes from April 2017

Rewatch notes from September 2017 (encompassing 4.15-4.18)

A post possibly more relevant to s14 than s4, but it encompasses the themes from this episode and gives us a hefty dose of Cas Angst leading into next week’s episode

A Mini-Hellatus extended CW promo video, including scenes from 4.15 and 4.16

And interestingly, a casting call announcement for Alastair and Cole

Finally, for the truly intrepid listener, here’s my cosmology tag. I debated including a few other tags, but that’s enough to be going on for now :’D

Listen now on AnchorFM, or wherever you enjoy podcasts!

[foxthefanboi]

4x15 - Death Takes a Holiday

[mittensmorgul]

Today on the TNT loop, a wonderful direct callback to 15.09 and 15.10, via 4.15, 4.16 and 4.17...

I need to start out by reminding everyone that the entire purpose of s4 was to manipulate Sam and Dean into “playing their roles,” even before they knew their roles existed as roles. Cosmically fated to act out a specific story for the entertainment of a bored God. Remember, they’re about to learn of the existence of “Chuck the Prophet” who’s been writing their lives down, in explicit detail, and publishing them as a series of pulpy horror novels. Hooray, 4.18, up next for me.

But I really need to pause here, because the sort of manipulations that Sam and Dean suffered through in 15.10, while I’ve already pointed out a lot of other “silly” episodes they referenced:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/190430063655/mittensmorgul-episodes-i-expect-1510-to-remind

I’m gonna now add 4.17 to that list, too, because holy HECK.

Remember the setup to this episode? 4.15 and 4.16 both? Where Dean had been DIRECTLY MANIPULATED into stopping Alistair from breaking another seal-- to “kill death twice” by ritually murdering two reapers-- a hunt that Cas “tricked” Sam and Dean into taking on by literally making them think that Bobby had sent them on that hunt.

Then 4.16 used Uriel to manipulate both Dean AND Cas into believing they needed to torture information out of Alistair. The goal was to break both Dean AND Cas here, because Uriel knew all along that Alistair was literally just a distraction, a diversion from his own actions, recruiting angels for Team Lucifer and murdering those who refused to join him. But also breaking Dean’s will to just... do what he’s told. Because Dean himself was never destined to be anything more than a tool to Heaven, a vessel for Michael to wear to the apocalypse. Of course, Dean didn’t know any of that yet, and neither did Cas. He knew Dean was “important,” but truly didn’t know why. 

At the end of 4.16, lying in a hospital bed, Dean felt hopeless:

Castiel: It's not blame that falls on you, Dean, it's fate. The righteous man who begins it is the only one who can finish it. You have to stop it. Dean: Lucifer? The Apocalypse? What does that mean? Hey! Don't you go disappearing on me, you son of a bitch. What does that mean! Castiel: I don't know. Dean: Bull. Castiel: I don't. Dean, they don't tell me much. I know our fate rests with you. Dean: Well, then you guys are screwed. I can't do it, Cas. It's too big. Alastair was right. I'm not all here. I'm not—I'm not strong enough. Well, I guess I'm not the man either of our dads wanted me to be. Find someone else. It's not me.

Tell me this isn’t super similar to his state earlier in s15. Let’s say... at the beginning of 15.06, holed up in his room in his bathrobe, bingewatching tv shows and eating cereal directly from the box. By the end of the episode, he still wasn’t sure what was real and what was Chuck’s doing in his life, and he’s absolutely right to question that, given his lifetime of experience being manipulated in exactly this way by higher cosmic powers.

In 4.17, that higher cosmic power was Zachariah, literally giving Sam and Dean alternate memories and directly inserting them into entirely different lives to prove a point. In 4.17, the Winchesters had their lifetime of knowledge of the Supernatural excised from them-- and even all the practicalities of hunting like “how to buy guns,” and “how salt can repel ghosts,” and “how to fight.” Throughout the episode they were forced to re-learn all of these skills for themselves, ironically using Ghostfacers videos about ghost hunting that directly referenced information that the Ghostfacers had learned from “The Winchesters.” Very much like how the Winchesters were “depowered” in 15.10, and yet... they were saved because of their prior relationship WITH GARTH, in which they had not only saved Garth’s life a couple of times, but had also learned things and imparted knowledge and information TO GARTH in the past. 

I guess what I’m attempting to point out here is the direct parallel to Chuck’s active manipulation of Sam and Dean in 15.10. They may not have had their memories removed like Zachariah did to them, but they’ve been reset to a similar sort of “baseline” status where NOTHING they do actually works this time. It’s... it’s almost a perfect inverse of 4.17.

Literally the episode leading up to the first appearance of Chuck The Author in canon.

Tell me Dabb isn’t explicitly suggesting an inverse parallel here, framing everything as Dean’s CHOICE, when it’s been one grand manipulation to pressing him into making that choice through any means necessary-- up to and including direct deceit and false narrative:

Zachariah: Believe me, I had no interest in popping down here into one of these smelly things. But after the unfortunate situation with Uriel, I felt it necessary to pay a visit, get all my ducks in a row. Dean: I am not one of your ducks. Zachariah: Starting with your attitude. Dean: So, what? This was all some sort of a lesson? Is that what you're telling me? Wow. Very creative.

and

Zachariah: I know, I know. You're not strong enough. You're scared. You've got daddy issues. You can't do it, right? Dean: Angel or not, I will stab you in your face. Zachariah: All I'm saying is it's how you look at it. Most folks live and die without moving anything more than the dirt it takes to bury them. You get to change things. Save people, maybe even the world. All the while you drive a classic car and fornicate with women. This isn't a curse. It's a gift. So for God's sakes, Dean, quit whining about it. Look around. There are plenty of fates worse than yours. So are you with me? You wanna go steam yourself another latte? Or are you ready to stand up and be who you really are?

Zachariah KNEW the bigger plan all along. Here he showed Dean an “alternate life” that was entirely manufactured to be a “false choice.” Dean, because of who he is as a person, would never have chosen that corporate falsehood. Just like he rejected Zachariah’s intended lesson in 5.04. And Gabriel’s lesson in 5.08.

Dean... doesn’t want to play his role. His role sucks. It’s a river of crap that would send most people howling to the nuthouse, after all... oh... wait, that’s a direct quote from 5.09, aka another episode where Chuck is directly involved, and directly manipulates them into a hunt... Dean... is not a fan...

But... we also learn something that I still think is true, and that I still think is IMPORTANT to s15. And important to Chuck as a character on this show we’re watching. I really don’t think he’s omniscient. I don’t think he can actually see every possible outcome. I don’t think he can control everything. But I think, and will always think, that because of Free Will, his ability to truly influence the outcome of his story is hindered. Unless he can use everything he CAN manipulate to crush Sam and Dean’s free will... to force them into making choices directly against their own interest, because of their perceived situation, or in this new post 14.20 universe, Chuck’s perceived intent for them.

Sam and Dean (and Cas! remember this was also about his discovery of the “rot” in Heaven, and how he himself had been used and manipulated into helping start the apocalypse) spent s4 thinking they were doing the right thing, because they’d been lied to from the start. When they questioned their path, questioned each other, their actions were met with often comically implausible verging on outright ridiculous situations that nudged them back into this cosmically “destined” series of events.

And Chuck’s history of this is directed at Sam and Dean in different ways-- Sam through the psychological manipulation and emotional angst, and Dean through physically hindering him. Chuck needed to break Sam’s trust in Dean, and replace it with the false belief that he was actually doing the right thing back in s4:

SAM: Dean’s not... he's not Dean lately. Ever since he got out of hell. He needs help. CHUCK: So you got to carry the weight? SAM: Well, he's looked out for me my whole life. I can't return the favor? CHUCK: Yeah, sure you can. I mean, if that's what this is. SAM: What else would it be? CHUCK: I don't know. Maybe the demon blood makes you feel stronger? More in control? SAM: No. That's not true. CHUCK: I'm sorry, Sam. I know it's a terrible burden – feeling that it all rests on your shoulders. SAM: Does it? All rest on my shoulders? CHUCK: That seems to be where the story's headed. SAM: Am I strong enough to stop Lilith tonight? CHUCK: I don't know. I haven't seen that far yet.

Chuck needs to break Sam’s will in 15.09, but Dean? Dean he needed to break his car, break him physically, and break his belief in his own choices and actions. Break his belief in his own identity. Because Dean’s will is not so easily shattered. He’s still willing to punch God in the face, for all of this.

And that’s how we end up with 15.10...

bonus destiel content: Dean’s very first prayer to Cas, ever, is asking him for help to stop Chuck’s prophecy from coming true. Dean question’s Cas’s “mission,” i.e. the thing Dean is unaware Cas has been questioning himself all this time, in the face of Dean’s refusal to just sit around and wait for Chuck’s prophecies to happen to them. Cas supplies him with the bit of information Dean needs to interfere and break the prophecy. I’ve written about the importance of that act before:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/187983341865/i-always-thought-anna-said-only-an-angel-can-kill

(and it bothers the everloving fuck out of me that people still don’t see that Chuck is a flim-flam artist of the highest order, and is the most unreliable narrator in the history of unreliable narrators, because not only is he biased to his own view of the story, he has the power to make the story conform to his own views, even if he can’t fully control each of the characters like glorified puppets)

and then Lizbob has also written about this scene and its import:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/169437649690/elizabethrobertajones-dean-cas-are-in-love-a

which is incredible when paired with Dean’s most recent prayer to Cas in 15.09, not about a problem he needs help fixing, but directly about their relationship... to quote Layla from 1.12, speaking on the subject of prayer, there’s a miracle right there.

[webcricket]

Castiel 4X15 Death Takes a Holiday

[thewinchesterdaily]

season 2 / season 4

[scoobydoodean]

4.15 "Death Takes A Holiday":

SAM Police say Mr. Jenkins was shot in the heart at point-blank range by a nine-millimeter. DEAN keeps eating, speaking with his mouth full. DEAN And he's not a doughnut? SAM Locals are saying it's a miracle. DEAN Okay. SAM It's got to be something nasty, right? I mean, people making deals or something. DEAN You think? SAM What else would it be? DEAN I don't know.

Dean isn't acting like a partner—isn't bouncing ideas off Sam like he usually does automatically when Sam's found a case and begins engaging with him about it. He isn't offering Sam a single thought in his head. He's just chewing his food—playing the role of the dumb brother Sam so clearly wants him to fall into.

Sam made it very clear the previous episode (under the siren's influence) that he's stronger, he's smarter, and Dean is holding him back. Therefore, the role Dean ought to play is "dumb sidekick" who simply concedes to Sam's views and doesn't get in the way—who's not as brave as Sam (an epic lie) or as smart as Sam is (another lie of epic proportions) and shouldn't act like it by daring to contribute thoughts.

Dean isn't playing into this thinking because Dean believes Sam's nonsense about him, or because he doesn't want Sam to leave. He's playing into it to make it very clear to Sam that the follower/leader relationship he seems to want so desperately—where Dean hangs on his every word and never questions him—isn't what Sam actually wants at all. The partner he's benefitted from all this time is much better than a dumb brute who just eats his burger.

SAM puts his laptop in his bag. SAM Get that to go. DEAN looks down and doesn't move. SAM Come on. SAM stands up, picking up his bag. DEAN doesn't move except to chew. SAM looks at him, swinging his bag over his shoulder. SAM What? DEAN looks up and keeps chewing, then glances away and back. DEAN Sure you want me going with you? SAM Why wouldn't I? DEAN I don't want to be holding you back or nothing. SAM Dude, I've told you a hundred times, that was the siren talking, not me. Can we get past this?

This is exactly what Sam did at the end of 1.10 "Asylum"—after spewing a very similar list of Dean's "deficiencies" compared to him. He simply stated that he didn't mean it, and felt that was enough—and because he so blatantly lied, Dean saw there was zero point in pressing the issue. Dean treats Sam's hurtful words (that he knows Sam meant) the same way in 4.14. There is no point in talking about it if Sam is just going to lie.

This time, in 4.15, it's actually worse—because Sam was the one who pushed and begged for Dean to open up about Hell—saying he just wanted to help... and then in 4.14 "Sex and Violence", he took all the trauma Dean trusted him with and spit it back in Dean's face:

You're too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in hell. Boo hoo. (x)

This is the second time Sam has taken a closely guarded secret of Dean's and deeply harmed him with it after begging and pleading and saying he just wanted to know so he could help. If I was Sam, and I actually didn't mean what I said in 4.14, when my full faculties returned, the very first thing I would do is reassure my brother that he is NOT weak and pathetic for being traumatized. What we get from Sam in 4.14? Not that at all.

SAM Dean, look, you know I didn't mean the things I said back there, right? That it was just the siren's spell talking?

It's said flippantly—the same tone he'd use after accidentally bumping into someone on the street. Sam's concern isn't sincerely reassuring his brother that his experiences in Hell don't make him weak. He just wants the matter not to be discussed. In 4.15, he worsens it, by making it clear all he cares about is how his own character is perceived—not whether Dean is actually okay or might have absorbed with words (even if they HAD been false). Sam’s sole concern is defending his character from "false" allegations. It's all about him being treated unfairly by Dean (who dares to not believe him... because Sam's been lying about everything) and how Dean is so terribly unfair because he hasn't gotten over it yet... which in of itself, only reinforces that Sam is lying about not meaning it. What he says here reinforces that he thinks Dean is overly emotional and fussy and his feelings are irrational.

I also sincerely doubt Dean asked him "a hundred times". I also doubt any of the times Sam "told" Dean he didn't mean it were any less flippant and self-centered than the first time. I wouldn't doubt Dean's been giving Sam a hard time, because he knows for a fact that Sam has been lying to him (he heard him talking to Ruby, Dean called her unlisted number in Sam's recent calls and she picked up) and Sam still refuses to admit it. Why wouldn't Dean assume Sam is also lying about not meaning anything he said? The very fact that Sam's hiding his contact with Ruby (after Dean worked with her and even attempted to thank her in 4.10 and also saved her life) reinforces that Sam's explanation under the siren's influence was real. He is leaving Dean out, because he thinks Dean is stupid and weak and is holding him back. They both know Dean meant every word he said, and so did Sam. And we'll have it confirmed for us that Sam meant it in 4.21. Saying Dean's asked him "a hundred times" is nothing than further invalidation of Dean's feelings—more assertions that Dean's irrational and his feelings are invalid and unfair and he's just being crazy.

[gendzl]

Dean: "You made an exception for me."

Cas: "You're different."

Nothing will convince me that Cas didn't fall in love with Dean the very first moment he saw his soul.

[castiellesbian]

Cathryn Humphris:

1.20 Dead Man's Blood (with John Shiban)

2.07 The Usual Suspects

2.14 Born Under a Bad Sign

3.05 Bedtime Stories

3.10 Dream a Little Dream of Me (with Sera Gamble)

4.04 Metamorphosis

4.14 Sex and Violence

Jeremy Carver

3.04 Sin City

3.08 A Very Supernatural Christmas

3.11 Mystery Spot

3.14 Long-Distance Call

4.03 In the Beginning

4.11 Family Remains

4.15 Death Takes a Holiday

4.20 The Rapture

5.03 Free to Be You and Me

5.08 Changing Channels

5.15 Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid

5.18 Point of No Return

8.01 We Need to Talk About Kevin

8.23 Sacrifice

9.01 I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here

9.23 Do You Believe in Miracles?

10.01 Black

10.23 Brother's Keeper

11.01 Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire

[femslashspuffy]

I really think everyone (in show) is making too big of a deal out of demon!Sam. Like really he’s getting rid of demons AND he has sick fucking powers hell yeah! I think when the angels come in the show turns demons into such horrible characters but like they’re fun and sexy as hell and I think Sam should be able to be a demon boy.

I literally don’t care about the stakes of this show anymore and Sam is having fun and he has a cool demon girlfriend, just let him do what he wants I think it would’ve been cool if Ruby got to stay with the show as long as cas (like obviously she wouldn’t have secretly been evil but I just really want a main female character)

[subcas]

[foxthefanboi]

What do you say we kill some evil sons of bitches and we raise a little hell, huh?

make me choose: @righteoussoldier asked: dean or cas?