#spiderverse theory

[alexxuun]

plsplspls i am so desperate to hear ur origin theory for miles g pls

OK SO, y’all seen the description for Earth-42 in the artbook?

(Pic creds to @cucumberteapot)

My prediction is that uncle aaron did not ever became the prowler before miles, he did do crime but haven’t create the prowler yet. This is because Jeff died when miles was young so Aaron quit a life of crime to become a father figure to miles. How do i know that? Because THIS IS SHOWN IN THE SPOT FUTURE VISION. When he show inspector singh trying to save a child, it cut to JEFF trying to save a child that looks extremely similar to the design of Miles G. This could mean spot is predicting both miles’ future and miles G’s past.

(Also creds to @cucumberteapot for giving me this insight)

IF JEFF DIED WHEN MILES WAS YOUNG, THAT EXPLAIN HIS COLD RESPOND WHEN MILES TALK ABOUT HIS DAD BECAUSE AARON IS HIS FATHER FIGURE. This also explain why miles is the prowler and not aaron because they built the persona together.

[fermented-writers-block]

Not gonna lie, with the Spot’s upcoming time mucking shenanigans as suggested by the flashes of the future in Miles’ vision, I would not be surprised if the dimensional collapsing theorized by Miguel to come from averting too many “Canon Events” will turn out to be a side effect of something the Spot will either do himself or set up to screw with Miles.

Particularly, with how much his origin monologue to Miles and Jeff centered around the idea that he made Spider-Man and vice versa, note how incredibly well that mentality would dovetail with Miguel and the Spider Society’s belief that the “Canon Events” are what made them Spider-Man.

@kindaorangey has a good post pointing out how the Spot’s mindset of “filling the hole with more holes” is a pretty apt metaphor for the way Miles, Gwen, and likely the other spider people diving into the identity of Spider-Man as a crutch for dealing with the isolation caused by said identity, but suffice to say, OP and @sir-adamus had these tags which I'd like to use as a jumping pad:

For this, we can analyze Miguel and Spot as two sides of the same coin, where Miguel’s side is about allowing canon events to play out through inaction, and Spot's side could potentially lead up to (as a side effect of his grudge against Miles) actively ensuring that only those canon events happen, with any deviations that don't fit into their views being cast aside.

The former position projects personal traumas as absolutely necessary and destined to happen onto others, the latter position rejects any possibility that things could go differently in a quite literal manner. But in the end, both ultimately are about "filling in the hole with more holes" and dictating what Miles "should" be like.

Miguel doesn’t think Miles is a real Spider-Man and that him becoming Spider-Man was a mistake that never should have happened, all from his obsessive mentality surrounding Canon Events. He and by extension the other Spider-Men stuck in their hole of guilt and fatalism, surrounding themselves with other Spider-Men stuck in their holes of trauma and grief to where they have formed an echo chamber that tells them Miles cannot save his father's life and that they cannot do anything to save people anymore.

And in the Spot's case, the metaphor already came from him, but it's all about obsessively centering his new, lonely existence around being not just A, but THE nemesis to Miles' Spider-Man. He lost everything and has nothing except his connection to Spider-Man. To fill that hole, he's not only only making himself a villain that Miles will actually respect. He's going to try his damnedest to make sure that Miles reaches his full potential as Spider-Man just like he talked about in Mumbattan, and fill the hole with more holes in Miles' life until Miles is devoid of everything except the Spot.

Given the flashes of future events in Miles’ vision, if and when the Spot inevitably hears about Miguel's theory of Canon Events, it would only be fitting if the Spot retroactively becomes responsible for all the previous dimensional destruction the Spider-Society dealt with. And thus, Miguel's theory obsession would be its own recursive creator.

A vicious cycle of telling themselves that things have to happen a certain way, of blaming uncontrollable circumstances on something they think they can and should control, and of refusing to let go of the spiral they've fallen into.

After all, Miles already had an Uncle Ben-type event and the Spot is trying to set up a Captain Stacy-type event. Since the logical conclusion to the themes of Miles choosing what kind of Spider-Man he wants to be and not allowing preventable tragedies to happen would be that Jeff lives, well…

It would only be narratively fitting for the Spot to try to set up a Gwen Stacy event later down the line.

Because if Miles being bit and the Spot getting caught up in the collider wasn't destiny, if the intersection of their lives was simply due to circumstances they had no control over, if the dimensional collapses weren't because preventing Canon Events is inherently destabilizing to reality in of itself, then Miguel and the Spot would have to look inwards and actually try to figure out how to fill the holes in their lives.

So Miguel tells himself that what he does has to be done, that only he is strong enough to do it, and that everyone should follow his lead and stop caring.

As for the Spot?

If he fails to kill Jeff and Gwen, and when it's proven to everyone else that Canon Events are not required lynchpins of reality like Gwen found, he might just decide to try to make them actual lynchpins across time and space.

Or at least, making it so that the only realities that can exist are ones where those events happen.

Aka trying to forcibly changing the multiverse so suffering huge tragedy becomes an inherently integral part of Spider-Man the concept, rather than a mere possibility. So many Spider-Men and their dimensions getting hurt in the crossfire, and all in the process of targeting Miles Morales specifically.

Truly, it would be quite resonant if and when the Spider-Society let and help Miles get to save his Captain and Gwen Stacy. Beating the Spot would no longer be about the concept of stopping a threat to the multiverse and their canon events, but about metaphorically ending the cycle of suffering and finding a way to move forwards beyond the guilt. They probably can’t actually change the past, but with this, they can fight to prevent it from happening to others.

[paintsplash1712]

Okay but The Spider Society is totally a cult right?

Like am I the only one who's noticed this?

The way they treat people like Gwen is totally like a cult or an abusive family. 'Hey, Gwen, we can see you're all alone with no family or home left so come join our little group and you'll feel whole again everything that happened to you for a reason, but don't call out our BS or you'll be kicked out and never be able to see Miles again!'

Gwen is always on edge with them, she's afraid to speak up until the end of the movie and Peter is too stupid to notice the obvious red flags of Miguel and Jessica-Drew.

Then when Miles reunites with Gwen the Society treats him like shit because of their own personal beliefs and when Miles (as an outsider) tries to call them out they attack him and act like he's a monster that destroyed their perfect home.

And Gwen by that point is too far in to save Miles. Its only when Miles is able to escape she realises how abusive the Spider Society is.

And it's with the help of an ex member, Hobbie, who only stayed to help the newer members escape while they can, that they're able to save Miles (hopefully).

I don't know if I'm over thinking this but I've had this thought this watching the movie

[honeysluiced]

reposting this incredible hobie analysis by @lizzytheowl577 i stumbled across in a youtube comment section

Spoilers ahead 

Ok so Hobie was all set to betray Miguel the moment he realized that Miles might be in trouble. The first thing to tell us this is that Hobie actively congratulates Miles when he stopped the cannon event from happening. Presumably every Spider-person who the event isn't for gets an alert when one is about to happen to keep them from interfering, this includes Hobie. He knows Miles just broke the rules in a major way and he's estatic about it. If I remember right, he's the only person who actually congratulates him on the rescue (Other than Pavitr of course). 

Next, when Miguel orders all of them to come to the Spider-Lobby (I don't think it had an official name and if it did I forgot it) Hobie puts his arm around Miles then says "I don't follow orders and neither does he". I initially read this as Hobie trying to keep Miles safe from Miguel, in a "We'll run right now if we have to kind of way" but the more I think about it, I don't think this is the case. I think Hobie believed that Miles knew he was breaking a cannon event and that's why he tacked on "and neither does he" at the end. 

Once Hobie realizes that Miles is ecstatic to go to the Spider-Lobby, he starts to second guess himself. He asks Gwen how much Miles knows, discovers he knows basically nothing and on the spot switches to talking Miles out of joining. Telling him to make his own watch and that he wouldn't like being in this group.

When Miles asks why Hobie is even there, he's says he's there to look out for his drummer. What he doesn't say is that he's doing that by trying to help Miles. Through this whole conversation, he is stealing bits and pieces of equipment from the lab, and it's implied he uses those pieces later on to make a new watch for Gwen to use. From at least that point, probably earlier, he knows that Miles isn't going to sit quietly while his dad dies, and Gwen is eventually going to want to help him. Which is why he delivers the watch to Gwen instead of trying to go straight to Miles. 

Later on, when Miles is getting angry about all the other Spider-People telling him to let his dad die, Hobie eggs him on. This is not just something he does impulsively. He realized early on when Miles talked about his parents that all he needed was a few nudges to go against Miguel's system. When Miles started showing signs of discontent, he decided to pick that moment to egg him on because that was the most effective time to. Then, Miles gets trapped in the energy prison. 

Hobie helps him get out of it, but the way this is done is genius. He holds up his hands and mouths "palms". To everyone else this would look like he was trying to just calm Miles down. If they just see his hands, it looks like a "calm down" gesture, if they read his lips, "calm" and "palm" are pronounced similarly enough that seeing him mouth one word, they'd assume in that instance he's saying "calm" as in "calm down". This in turn does two things: It gives Miles the element of surprise, and it doesn't make it look like Hobie helped. Those two things give both of them time, Miles get a few stunned seconds of a head start, and nobody chases or tracks down Hobie meaning he has time to make the new watches. He even throws away his current watch because he knows it can be tracked and Miguel might go after him after realizing he didn't help try to catch Miles. 

Basically Hobie is an incredibly intelligent character and they were able to demonstrate this really well in the short amount of time he actually got on screen.

[charlesoberonn]

What if Gwen Stacy falling (figuratively and literally) for Spider-Man is a Canon Event and Miguel allowed our Gwen to get to Miles intentionally knowing she’d die?

[lunarrosette]

So I’ve rewatched spiderverse 3 times now and one big thing I noticed was the fact to captain canon events phrasing “A police captain that is close to a spider person is killed saving a child during a fight with a nemesis” this is a main thing that causes me to doubt the canon event idea because Spot is not Pavitr’s nemesis and it’s supposedly his canon event so just because miles is also in the fight shouldn’t mean anything and also it’s not during a fight it’s the aftermath idk these are just my thoughts and I haven’t seen anyone talk abt this specific phrasing

[heart-of-the-morningstar]

Opening for BTSV thought…

Ok so, we know how Gwen opened up ATSV, she had like the first 20 minutes that set up the movie. Now hear me out, what if Pavitr opens up BTSV (I may be biased but let me live lol), but imagine if you will…

Pavitr was left behind when the rest of the Spider Band left for Nueva York, so Pav is there wondering what’s going on. He swings down to the other Spider people where they are trying to contain the black hole that appeared. He starts asking them questions, but all of the answers aren’t very helpful. “We’re trying to contain the anomaly.” “The canon was broken.” This doesn’t really clear anything up, but he knows whatever is happening is not good.

He swings back up to the bridge, he makes sure everyone is clear of the damage. He heads home to Maya Auntie, he finds her asleep on the couch. She left the tv on, it was the news. They were reporting on the black hole that appeared in the middle of city. Pav feels weary, he finds a blanket and places it over Maya and turns the tv off. He goes to bed and tries to sleep, but he can’t.

Quietly, he puts his suit on and grabs his watch from Miguel and swings into the night. His plan was to travel to Nueva York to get answers from Miguel as to what was happening to his city. But as he swings, he ends up swinging by Gayatri’s home. He sees her on the balcony and lands on a near by rooftop. Normally, he wouldn’t interact with her as Spider-Man, but in this case, he felt it justified to check up on her since he did rescue her earlier.

He swings and lands on top of her rooftop. He attaches is web to their chimney and hangs upside down in front of her. She’s startled at first but recollects herself once she realizes who it is. He apologizes for scaring her and says he recognized her as the girl from the bus. He asks her if she’s alright, she giggles and says she’s fine and that she’s lucky that he was there to save her. He’s relieved and tells her he needs to go, but she tells him to wait. She asks him if there’s a way she can repay him for saving her life, perhaps a kiss.

Pav is taken a back, he’s stammering, he wants to say yes because of course he wants a kiss from her. But he’s not Pavitr right now, he’s Spider-Man, he can’t accept. But he still form a coherent sentence, finding it hard to say no. Gayatri laughs “What’s wrong, you don’t want a kiss from your girlfriend, Pav?”

He goes silent, trying hard to process what she just said. “W-what?” is all he could manage. “It’s okay Pavitr, I know it’s you.” At this point, he flipped himself right-side up, standing in front of her now. Slowly, he reaches up to his mask and pulls it off, he stares at the ground.

“How did you know?” He asks softly, he hasn’t lifted his head to look at her yet. “Well, the hug you gave today kind of sealed it for me. But your hair is very recognizable, Pav.” He laughed a little, finally meeting her gaze. He apologizes for not telling her, saying he wanted to keep her safe. She’s understanding and give him a small peck on the cheek, it’s hard for him to hide the blush on his face.

He tells her that he’s worried about the black hole that appeared in the city today and that he’s going to to find answers. All of a sudden, there’s a shaking in her room. A few things start to levitate slowly off the ground, they look at each other confused. A portal opens, suddenly Gwen appears. Pavitr is relieved, Gayatri is still confused but relaxes when she sees her boyfriend is calm, he tells her not to worry and that she’s a friend.

“Miles is in trouble, Pav. We need your help. Please.” Gwen says. Behind her appears Hobie and Peter B with Mayday. Pavitr nods and turns to Gayatri. “I have to go. I’ll be back soon, I promise,” he says. He leans down and gives her a tight hug. “Be safe,” she whispers in his ear. He pulls back and smiles, “I always am.” He plants a small kiss on her forehead and heads towards Gwen and the portal.

Hobie, Peter B., and Gwen all walk through the portal. Pavitr turns around one last time before stepping through. “I love you,” he says, and disappears along with the portal.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Listen, this isn’t the prettiest writing or set up, but I would love something like this as it feels like a parallel to ATSV and Gwen’s story and I wanted to self indulge 😭

[frankly-idgad]

Call me crazy and maybe I’m digging to deep but what if this

Was a prelude for this?

Just a theory of course

[straighttxhell]

BEYOND THE SPIDER-VERSE THEORY

Miles is gonna drop Gwen

That's it, that's the theory. Someone save this post and give me credit when it happens in the movie but it's something that has been foreshadowed FOUR TIMES. She fell and he caught her once in into the spiderverse, and dropped her twice in across the spiderverse. And Gwen made a reference to it "in every universe Gwen Stacy falls for spiderman".

I know it's gonna happen again I just wanna know how much it plays into the story like if it's gonna happen during a critical moment or if it's gonna be the end of Gwen Stacy 💀 (again) but I can tell you she's falling in the third movie and you can hold me accountable and publicly shame me if it doesn't happen

[baobhanlore-art]

I know everyone is talking about the ATSV scene where Miguel goes apeshit but I just wanted to mention how Miguel is still addicted to Rapture, an insanely addictive drug exclusively developed by Alchemax to give him no choice but to keep working for them because he couldn't live without it. In the comics, him becoming Spiderman got rid of his addiction but possibly the trauma or some rewrites of his story makes it so he went back to it or just never overcame his addiction. (idk if there's more to it, I just read the fan wiki)

And I kind of have a theory that there's going to be a massive steakout due to The Spot fuckery that prevents them from going back to Nueva York, and Miguel won't have access to Rapture when he desperately needs it and starts going through withdrawals. It makes him more sensitive to light, as part of the vampire motif, but imagine the insane feral Miguel we saw but going through incomprehensibly severe withdrawals. I don't feel like they'd introduce the drug if it wasn't important, and minor details in ITSV have paid off in ATSV so who's to say we won't see more of it. It may also be a pinch point where he's forcef to retreat in a conflict with Miles and his friends and he can't stay in the sunlight anymore, but he starts suffering majorly from withdrawals and starts to lose control over himself.

Also idk if this really fits but I have another theory that Miguel is going to do something mirroring Miles in Mumbattan where he puts himself in an insane level of danger to protect a civilian, and I genuinely think it might be protecting Mayday. It would be a moment similar to Andrew Garfield Spider-Man saving MCU MJ, where he can't save the person he lost but he can prevent someone else going through the same pain he did.

That's just some theories though. Idk if they'll have any relevance.

[deepestblizzardcomputer]

So, I Have been thinking. . .

Spoilers below

.

.

.

.

about this dude right here.

and why did he actually acted the way he did.

at first you would think this Miles is all evil cause of how cold he acts toward Miles's needing of help like he didn't 'care' but what if there was more behind his action? and even if he was evil as it seems what would be his motive, like what would he really benfit?

So, as it hinted in the first spider-verse movie, the comics that flips it pages actually shows you hints of how things would play out in the scenes.

The first page isn't clear who is speaking, it could be earth 42' Miles to Miles or Uncle Aaron, but the next one shows it our Miles answering to whatever Uncle Aron told him.

Am guessing it has to do something with killing a guy? But why is that you ask?

Simple, revenge. He still didn't kill the guy who killedchis brother. that's why he responded to Miles being meaning he was NOT a good person because his wound for his brother was still fresh and all he wanted was to HURT (or how it seemed for me) and as we see here,

it is now clear that 42' Miles is the one saying this to Miles, "you and I are going to take care of a bad guy. a real bad guy"

He wants his help, that's why he didn't want to let go off him just yet, with his abilities as 'spider-man' he would do them a lot of help much faster. if I am right, he wants Miles to help him take down his father's killer, by killing him, himself.

and of course, Miles would refuse for two reasons. one, our Miles's father's issue still unsolved and he would fear to be too late to save his father and two, he wouldn't let his other self do that. it was just wrong.

Which brings us to what these two would be disccusing in the next movie. Miles here asking genuinely what happened to this Miles to make him the way he is.

And am sure that will bring up a backstory of why he was doing this in first place. which will make Miles show his Empathy toward him saying he went through the same grief when he lost his uncle in his universe.

am guessing here 42' Miles would be curious of what did this Miles did when he knew and saw the murderer of his uncle to which Miles responded. (As i guess) that he ran away. (Which technically happened) as 42' Miles would respond with.

I am not sure if the one who killed Uncle Aaron would be the same person who murdered 42' Miles father but if that was the case, sheesh.

That would explain why this panel is here BEFORE the "you ran away?!" One

It could be the flashback of 1610' Miles.

42'Miles and uncle Aaron would possibly be confused of why didn't this Miles just kill the man since he had the chance since he was more powerful with his spider powers. to which again, Miles would probably responded with something along those lines, that real good people don't do that, it was wrong and he was just a kid.

How could he be able to murder somone that easily? he was sure the other Miles wouldn't be capable of such thing as well. (Maybe) he still had a caring heart and he wasn't completely evil.

(Which encourages the '42 Miles being Vigilante' theory)

If you look closely, there is an apparent saddnes in his eyes. a boy who lost alot of things. it might have been subtle but 42's Miles was actually relieved when he knew his father was alive somewhere.

But so why would he coldly dismiss Miles's help like that?

" If I don't get out, our dad is going to die—"

" your dad. "

he is actually distancing himself from hope. that out there somewhere, his father is safe and well. He doesn't want to feel this 'hope' even when he was relieved of that fact. He still wanted to keep those anguish feeling inside, to push him forward toward his revenge.

If 42' Miles let himself relax he might let his focus and motive slip out of his main target and he didn't want that.

My theory here, is they might get their epic fight but in some point they could reach to an understanding and help eachother in the end.

Again, if that the murderer who kill 42' Miles father, there could be a chance that they would find another collider in this universe, who knows?

Also, I have a feeling this 42's Earth doesn't have a spider-man but am going to get to that in the next post.

Also! Other panels that i am not sure where they actually are connected: (one of them could be Uncle Aaron speaking with 42's Miles thougj)

[whosmarinette]

I think at this point I might as well post my theory.

So where do the glitched out things go?

You know? When stuff starts glitching? Atoms don’t belong and stuff? And not only things, where did Gabriela O’Hara go?

“They cease to exist” I hear you say

“Bullshit” I say back

Physics is a great subject. I failed it in school, but it’s great nonetheless. And one simple rule of physics, the law that even most works of fiction, even fantasy tend to abide is the law of conservation of energy.

Things don’t disappear into nothing.

And there is something that even has been mentioned already in Spiderverse, established that it exists and functions, somewhere where things could go without creating collapses in physics as we know it.

HAMMERSPACE

In case y’all need a refresher on what hammerspace is, here’s a comic from the Wikipedia page for hammerspace that explains it better than I could

And when was this concept mentioned? Well, at least once, it was mentioned by the most cartoonish character - Peter Porker, aka, Spider-Ham. I don’t remember if he outright called it hammerspace, but he used it most prominently.

And what was his parting gift for Miles?

A GOD DAMN HAMMER THAT CAN FIT INTO HIS POCKET.

“But maybe it’s only Spider-Ham that uses hammerspace, to signify he is a classic cartoon!” Some of you say, thinking you are very smart

“Where do Hobie’s hair go when he wears his mask?” I ask, and none of y’all smarties can answer.

Spiderverse has established that hammerspace is something that, knowingly or not, basically every and any spider-person can access.

So we have a vast space, where things that basically need to be hidden, usually go, and we have things and people glitching out of existence. Isn’t it logical that those two things are connected?

Wouldn’t it be really fucking funny?

[pjshermann]

I am VERY normal about the parallels between the two Spiderverse movies, particularly about Miles and him always being an “anomaly”.

In ITSV when Miles and his dad are having their argument about Miles going to the new prep school, Miles talks about how this isn’t for him and how he wants to be among “the people” to which his dad says “these ARE your people” and Miles replies with “I’m only here because I won that stupid lottery”.

This parallels to him and the spider society in ASTV because Miles was never supposed to be Spider-Man, he only became Spider-Man because of a coincidence, because he was randomly bitten by that radioactive spider. He never fits in with the Spider Society, and he immediately is made to feel like and be an outcast. The same way he felt like he’d just been chosen randomly to be at a school he doesn’t fit in at, is the same way he now feels like he’d just been chosen randomly to be Spider-Man and he doesn’t fit in with the rest of the spidermen. In two situations, Miles is left feeling like an imposter and that he was never meant to be where he now is.

However, if we go back to the ITSV argument, Miles’ dad responds to Miles with “You passed the entrance exam just like everybody else”. Miles may feel like he is only an anomaly, but just as there was a reason (not a complete random chance) that he got into an elite prep school, there has got to be a real reason he ended up being Spider-Man, rather than just some screw-up or sheer coincidence. Especially with the way that radioactive spider seemed to be deliberately targeting him…hmmm

[moralesmilesanhour]

Hi the Spiderverse Hyperfixation Guy is back with more Hyperfixation Thoughts

Okay so like. Is anyone weirded out by how similar Miguel's dimension falling apart looks to when a character is glitching out, or when stuff from other dimensions started appearing in Miles' New York in the first film?

I also wonder how Miguel was able to go all that time replacing his dead counterpart without glitching the way that literally everyone else does. Is it possible that he invented the watch originally for this purpose?

Idk something is afoot, y'all 😭

[hercuthree]

*puts down a little wooden box and stands on it*

Spot attacked Pav’s universe and caused the building to fall which (would have) caused his canon event

But remember, spot was created as a side effect of Miles becoming spiderman, which wasn’t supposed to happen.

If Miles didn’t become spiderman and fuck up his timeline, spot wouldn’t exist, and therefore wouldn’t have been attacking in Pav’s universe when he did

All other canon events occurred within the confines of each spiderman’s universe, to the best of our knowledge

On that same note, if miles was never supposed to be spiderman, why does doing so automatically mean he will have a canon event?

Also, why the FUCK would Miguel tell Miles about the canon events if his haven’t happened yet? Every media I have ever consumed which utilizes time travel says you SHOULD NOT TELL YOURSELF THE FUTURE, especially the bad parts. I know universe hopping and time travel are different but I’d assume the same logic applies to both. Miguel isn’t stupid why did he do that.

I’ve talked to people about this and they’ve said “he was trying to protect him” or “he didn’t know miles would react like that” okay Miguel’s family died and he fucked shit up trying to fix that for himself why does he think telling a kid “hey ur dad is gonna die” won’t make him try and stop it? Don’t tell me if Miguel was told “ur daughter is gonna die lol” he wouldn’t go crazy trying to keep her inside of some kind of safety bunker.

Same thing with Gwen. She didn’t act as irrationally but that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have fucked it up when the time came because she knew it would happen.

Point is, Miguel is either lying, withholding information, or completely wrong.

Also, please stop sexualizing him it’s so weird

*gets off my soap box*

[world-of-theories]

Spiderverse theory

What if prowler miles was going to be an evil spider-man?

Since both miles’ swap places and both became vigilantes

It could be a possibility that prowler miles was going to be a villain spider-man since spider miles was going to be the successor of his uncle until the spider bit him

This means that spider miles fate changed not only from being the prowler to being spider-man but also from being a villain to being a hero