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atiny-for-life · 6 months ago

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Ateez and KQ Entertainment - A Summary

When it comes to K-Pop companies, anyone who's been a fan of any group for a while will know the majority of them are awful, greedy, and will sacrifice the health and safety of their artists for profit in a heartbeat. It's an awful industry built on the backs of underpaid, overworked young people who've been shamed and exploited since they were trainees and oftentimes bullied into plastic surgery, eating disorders, and mentally damaging competition with their peers. Many idols end up with chronic health issues, especially heart problems, long before they'll ever reach the average retirement age.

So what about KQ? Are they any different? Should we view them as one of them? Or are they an outlier like 1Verse's label SingingBeetle (founded by former SM employee Michelle Cho) or KOZ Entertainment which was founded by Zico, an active idol and former Block B member who has since signed his own group, BoyNextDoor?

Side note, and for the sake of completeness: After Block B, which means all members including their parents, were exploited by their former agency Stardom Entertainment, it was KQ who created an agency (Seven Seasons) solely for Block B so they could continue activities - a job they were definitely not prepared for so there was mismanaging going on and Block B fans don't look upon that time fondly. Since then most, if not all, members eventually stopped renewing their contracts.

However, these days, we've got Ateez, Xikers, Maddox, Eden and everyone else under the company refer to KQ as a family. Why is that? Let's gather what we know.

The Beginning: Accepting Hongjoong as a trainee

Most Atinys will already know the story of how Hongjoong joined KQ as their first ever trainee back in 2015. He's shared this story many times over the years (recent examples: Zach Sang Show interview, K-Star Next Door, I.M on the Beat interview, T-TIME : Grrrgak!) but for those who've never heard it, here's a summary of how it went down:

Hongjoong wanted to make music so he put a bunch of self-composed songs on a mixtape and sent it to several companies, including the big three. His reason for targeting KQ specifically was his love of Block B's music, which made him disregard the fact that KQ wasn't looking to sign anyone else. In fact, they were only a management agency at the time so they weren't even in a position to accept trainees.

Regardless, he sent the tape together with a letter, telling them they should reach out and contact him if they'd like to work with him. Whoever received that letter at KQ tossed it aside, unopened, and a year went by. The company then moved buildings and, while packing up, someone came across the tape and letter.

Intrigued, they listened to it (untrained rap and all) and heard the potential, which led the CEO to make a judgment call and give Hongjoong a chance. KQ called him to ask if he still wanted to do music. Of course, Hongjoong said yes and took the risk of signing with them.

Ateez's lives as trainees under KQ

While it was Hongjoong's music school principal who initially gave him the idea of not just being a songwriter but also an idol, it was KQ who further encouraged him.

However, as their first ever trainee, Hongjoong had a difficult time. First, with Eden initially trying to push him to quit music because KQ had put him in charge of training Hongjoong as a producer and Eden had zero interest and training to be a teacher. (Of course, those feelings didn't last too long and Hongjoong wormed his way into Eden's heart fairly quickly.)

But even without that, he struggled with being lonely because most other trainees who walked into the practice room, never stayed. Additionally, KQ was quite poor at the time, so Hongjoong only ate fried rice most of the time which he quickly grew tired of. Many of you may remember this story from Hongjoong's mother's letter shared in this video last year:

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In late June 2024, during a live, Hongjoong also shared he was diagnosed with two separate conditions during his trainee days, orthostatic hypotension (drop in blood pressure when standing up or sitting down which leads to fainting) and vasovagal syncope (fainting caused by triggers such as emotional distress, the sight of blood, etc.) which he's learned to manage since. However, this was something he forced himself to learn to deal alone since he didn't want to worry the company or others.

During these early days, KQ was broke and Ateez had a food budget (which they sometimes maxed out, leading Hongjoong to pretend he was dieting and push the others to use his budget for themselves) and weren't allowed to use their phones in the dorms, likely to discourage them from getting distracted and sleeping too little but, aside from Hongjoong, no one seems to have followed that rule. See, the famous clip of Hongjoong talking about being salty when he discovered Seonghwa's two hidden phones:

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However, KQ famously never enforced any sort of dating ban unlike most other companies which later gave us one of the funniest headlines of all time:

And they were also some of the first idols who proudly showed off their tattoos while many others were still banned from even getting them.

Ultimately, they already went viral predebut thanks to their outstanding dancing and Jongho's ability to split apples with his bare hands while singing.

Something I can't source but remember: Yunho, I believe, once shared the practice room used to be tiny and in terrible condition before they moved to a bigger building right before San joined the company.

Investing in and defending Ateez

During their trainee days, KQ flew Ateez (plus their then maknae, who wasn't ready to debut in 2018 and presumably moved on to another company) out to LA where they received rigorous dance training so they could become the performance group we all know and love today. They documented the whole thing here:

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Something worth noting about this time is: they've been consistently providing English subtitles for all their content which was definitely a huge contributor in how much more popular they've always been overseas compared to domestically.

In an attempt to get Ateez more exposure, KQ took the financial risk of paying for Ateez's participation in Kingdom: Legendary War all the way back in 2021 which was, honestly, a hellish time for the fandom - even KQ acknowledged that in a lawsuit they filed against some false rumors being spread about Ateez around the time, stating:

However, we have decided that the current situation, in which false information is misunderstood as true, can damage not only our artists’ reputation which has been achieved through hard work but also our fans' mental health, who are our artists' biggest supporters.

Participation in the program was deeply exhausting for Ateez (who were without Mingi at the time - more on that in a bit), but did prove worthwhile when it garnered them a significant amount of new fans thanks to their positive attitude regarding the competition which had the vibe of "We're just here to make friends and put on a great show."

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Regarding this part of their history, it should be noted that, in the wake of Kingdom: Legendary War, additionally information came out, exposing severe mistreatment of Ateez at the hands of Mnet:

After constant disrespect, a Korean Atiny [...] made a lengthy post of all the times Mnet had treated the K-pop group poorly. The final straw might have been Ateez not getting a single nomination for any award on Mnet's award show, MAMA 2021, despite the channel calling them ‘performance kings’. On top of it, fans found it humiliating that Ateez, the only group that was not nominated, performed at the award show too. [...] Korean Atinys claimed that Mnet’s staff would scream at Ateez while filming their reality shows. They were not told about the venues where they would be performing like the outdoor festival event and their makeup room was the smallest during the ‘Kingdom’ shoot. While other participating groups were given sofas, Ateez members were given stiff office chairs.

However, this is not something to blame KQ for - Mnet is famously hated by all idols and is even known to mistreat Hype artists, who are far more influential. They abuse the power they hold over all artists since everyone depends on them for promotions. One company alone, especially one on the small side, doesn't have the power to take them on. It'd take collective action on all companies' parts.

In the year that followed, 2022, KQ sued an infamous gossip YouTuber, who'd been spreading lies and rumors about idols for years, reaching all the way back to first gen idols. Even other fandoms cheered on KQ at the time for finally doing something against her.

Excerpt from the article:

The YouTuber has been criticized in the past for starting false rumors about idols. NMIXX‘s Sullyoon, BTS‘s Jungkook and RM, actress Han So Hee, And NCT‘s Jisung are just a few of the celebrities the YouTuber has targeted. According to reports, the person behind the Sojang YouTube account has been actively writing about rumors since K-Pop’s first generation. Before YouTube, the netizen had been active on online communities, Facebook, and Twitter. According to reports, it is believed that Sojang is a woman in her mid-to-late forties. This isn’t the first time the YouTuber has been sued. EXO member Xiumin has previously sued her, and BTS’s V had threatened to sue the YouTuber last December.

Again in 2022, they also took strong legal action when a tracking device was placed on one of Ateez's cars, stating "The defendant asked for leniency, but the company has not agreed to any leniency or settlement to prevent further damage and set a precedent for those who think of downplaying privacy violation offenses."

KQ has also proven themselves willing to back their artists' personal dreams financially, like when they paid for Hongjoong's non-profit photo exhibition which gathered money for charity and supported his wish to have a busking event, and got Seonghwa to meet his favorite ASMR YouTuber.

Recently (June 2024), Hongjoong also shared they're now getting paid extra incentives, as of last year (2023), as a thank you for all they've done for the company and the sum doesn't seem to be all that small.

Of course, there are also the most tangible and noticeable investments: creative marketing both locally and overseas, high quality music videos, regular vocal and performance training, booking music show and interview appearances and, notably, appearances on platforms outside the usual K-Pop sphere, i.e. React in 2019.

Ateez and the rest of KQ - family relationships?

We all know that famous clip of DJ Yunho calling KQ the best best company while Wooyoung's trying not to choke on his laughter:

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And we also know Ateez and their respective families all get along - all their parents seem to have become friends and adopted the rest of the Ateez members as their own kids. Especially Wooyoung seems to call everyone's parents "mom" and "dad" and San's dad is deeply invested in everyone's health and well being. Hongjoong has even involved his brother before to help him choreograph for his MAMA performance.

Outside their immediate family, they all also have a group chat as Ateez with their CEO where he refers to them as his kids and he also watches their lives sometimes, attends concerts, etc.. Someone made a compilation here back in 2022 but they still imitate and quote him to this day:

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And it's not just their CEO, they all seem to really love their managers and vice versa with this guy going viral for his adoration of Yeosang on multiple occasions and this clip between Wooyoung and his manager going viral more than once. You can find many compilations of the dynamics between Ateez and their staff but here's an example.

And here's an example of how Xikers and their staff treat each other (spoiler: it's adorable chaos).

We've also seen the hair and make up staff goof around with them and we also know how close they are with B.B.Trippin, the dance crew who create the majority of their choreos, who've been fostering an unbroken relationship with KQ since the early days due to their ties with Block B.

Today, they continue to tour with Ateez despite how sought after they are by other companies with JM, their leader, even stating in response to the question "What are your favorite groups to choreograph for?":

"Of course it’s ATEEZ! Right now I’m not making the choreography myself, I’m only working as the general director. But I’ve been with ATEEZ since the members were first together and we talk a lot, so we fit well and I like working with them."

And, of course, we know how close they all, but especially Hongjoong, are with Edenary and Maddox from not just Ateez's content, but also Maddox's:

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How KQ handles health issues

In the beginning, Ateez were severely discriminated against in the industry, as is true for all groups of small companies. As a result, they pushed themselves extra hard during what limited performance time they had in order to leave an impression and slowly grow their Korean fanbase. To quote Mingi: "When we just debuted, we were known for the madness."

During their first tour in 2019, Yeosang broke his finger during a performance and set it again by himself without ever leaving the stage or even slowing down.

Seonghwa, in an equally bonkers move during the same tour, cracked his ribs while coughing and still chose to perform. At the end of Hala Hala, when they all pretend to snap their necks and collapse, his rib kept him from being able to get back up, leaving Yunho and Yeosang to basically carry him off stage.

After those incidents, KQ became far more vigilant and ensured Ateez watches their health and safety more closely, with Seonghwa sitting out a performance in 2020 due to an injury. Their statement stating:

During a recent modern dance lesson, Seonghwa experienced pain near his hip joint. He went for an examination at a medical clinic specializing in that area, and he has been diagnosed with a mild sprain. While it is a minor injury, he has been advised by the medical team to avoid intense movement for about two weeks, in order to avoid the worsening or relapse of the injury. Therefore, Seonghwa will only be taking part in the Meet & Greet segment of ‘KCON:TACT 2020 Summer’ on June 26, and it would be difficult for him to take part in the performance.

In November of 2020, the same year, roughly two years after debut, Mingi developed some severe anxiety which led to him getting tested and diagnosed before he went on a (back then) indefinite hiatus to get rest and regain stability in his life.

During this time, he didn't participate in any public activities but stayed in close contact with all the members and even San's dad who checked in on him regularly since he's San's dad's favorite.

He returned in mid-2021 after about half a year of intermittent schedules to get back in the swing of things and under the clearance of his therapist. His mind was made up that he wanted to keep on doing this and he seemed happy to be back:

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Jongho, too, had a more severe injury in August 2023 and needed to get surgery to fix it. Thankfully he, too, recovered fully after a hiatus that lasted a couple of months which was followed by him sitting on a chair side-stage during performances for quite some time until his knee was fully healed.

More recently, we've also heard Seonghwa share that they used to struggle severely while touring, even requiring oxygen masks backstage to keep themselves going, which led the CEO to put together a team of pro athlete trainers to ensure Ateez can physically meet the demands of the industry without sacrificing their health any further.

Most recently, it was Wooyoung who needed to sit out for a bit when he developed cholinergic uriticaria. Thankfully, he's already back in the swing of things as well and has recently shared in an interview that his condition has been improving steadily since the first massive flare up after Coachella (though swelling in his face is still noticeable to them all when he exercises/dances for long periods of time).

Most Common Criticisms of KQ

1 - Ateez are overworked!

This is undeniably true for all successful idols. It's a brutal, brutal industry and unless all companies slow down, there is no way to take time off without being forgotten and losing out on future opportunities because a lot of fans are quick to move on whenever a group disappears for a bit. Many don't even stick around for more than one comeback to begin with.

Especially during the end of the year award period, all idols are deeply overworked which is why we saw Ateez get time off around early April. They also take breaks for holidays and Hongjoong has said before that they're adults and know what they're doing when a fan told him they're being overworked (I wish I could find the clip right now).

I also remember Seonghwa saying during an interview that KQ never makes decisions without talking them through with Ateez so they understand each other's reasoning and no decisions get made over their heads (once again, I wish I could find the damn clip but all I remember is Seonghwa had longer black hair and his outfit and the set were kept in black, white and gray tones).

2 - KQ is controlling!

If you've read the whole post, you'll already know Ateez have a lot of freedom compared to other idols, especially now. They get to do lives without supervision, pursue solo projects (including quality music videos for their covers and original songs), Yeosang was an MC for The Show for a long time where he got to show off solo, while Yunho and Hongjoong got to be Idol Radio DJs for a long time where they got to be mentors, show off as dancers and make new friends. On top of that, Yunho, Jongho, San and Seonghwa all four starred in a drama (with Yunho being a co-lead) criticizing the abuse and mistreatment idols face in the industry which Ateez reference to this day.

Hongjoong also gets to work with Xikers now, giving them guidance Ateez surely wished they'd had in their early days, and he even collaborated with Chungha on her first album in her new agency, while Wooyoung got to work on a dance passion project with Watcha which was close to his heart just last year.

On top of all of that, they get to goof around constantly while a lot of bigger names in the industry have much more scripted content. We've also heard Ateez be extremely honest with fans when it comes to their wellbeing, including when they're tired or struggling. They've even told stalker fans off on live with zero consequences from the company on multiple occassions.

Their freedom goes double when it comes to their music where we know all members get to participate in both the song and choreography from recording all the way to live performance.

3 - Wooyoung and Yeosang don't get enough lines!

From an outsider's perspective, this is true. However, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes outside of what they tell us. For example, Hongjoong shared just recently that all members sing the whole song and then lines get distributed based on who suits which parts best.

It's also worth mentioning that the distribution is balancing out more and more over time. A trend which will surely continue now that both Wooyoung and Yeosang have released more covers to flex their vocals and 'Will - The World' included subunits so they could all show off and try out writing lyrics for themselves.

In Conclusion

I think, when it comes to Ateez, a lot of fans who raise concerns about KQ don't look at the bigger picture or lack some of the information needed to make a fair judgment. Though there is, of course, also absolutely valid criticism.

Please be aware I'm definitely not saying "Be a company stan, they deserve it!". The primary focus should always be on the artists themselves, not the people managing the funds in the background, but what I am saying is: "Trust Ateez."

There are so many idols out there who hate their companies, who are on the brink of collapse from exhaustion (P1harmony, NCT Dream, Enhypen, to name a few) and it's noticeable. They say it, they want fans to create a ruckus and demand better treatment, but Ateez isn't one of them.

All eight are very outspoken people and, from what we've seen and heard, so are their families. If KQ weren't full of decent people, Ateez wouldn't involve their siblings and parents in projects, they wouldn't so frequently bring up receiving gifts from their CEO, be so full of love and praise for their managers and staff, or willingly praise the company so regularly.

There have definitely been instances where trending hashtags were justified, such as when there was lacking airport security because KQ had underestimated how many people would show up to welcome them, but there's a lot of unjustified complaining going on as well which can be easily debunked.

I hope this roundup of base information will help some people get a clearer picture of what the company dynamic is like so everyone can come to their own conclusions.

#ateez #kq entertainment #hongjoong #seonghwa #yunho #yeosang #san #mingi #wooyoung #jongho

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marigoldwriter · 5 months ago

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I'll definitely still use my HC that Chloe's first language is French. But, I think that she, as a mother (yes, I'm talking about my fic), for me, would definitely, like, buy fairytale books in French (I think Ella read bedtime stories in French to her, so, she would have a library full of them at Charming Castle, just another hc mine), hire a French teacher for them, talk for hours and hours in French with her daughters, and in that environment I can only imagine Red feeling a little left out because she doesn't understand one single word in French.

There would also be the fact that their daughters would refer to Red as "mama" — mostly, "mère", "maman", and Bridget as "grandmère", but Chloe's side of the family would just be "mom", "grandma", "grandpa", "uncle", and stuff like that.

Chloe would have to start being very careful about what she says in French to Red because her daughters might understand something and she doesn't want to traumatize them by saying something extremely inappropriate in front of them.

On the other hand, Red would teach their daughters to speak in riddles, ask Maddox to teach them riddles (he's not just a science teacher at Wonderland High, he's also a riddle teacher, but doesn't teach classes specifically on that), and would talk in riddles with their daughters, so, Chloe, she would feel a bit left out, but Red would hate to see her wife like that so she would talk very little in riddles.

Besides the fact that no one other than people who were born or raised in Wonderland know how to speak in riddles, they would use riddles mainly to hide things from Chloe, like planning a surprise birthday party for her!

#glassheart #redcharming #charminghearts #chloe x red #red x chloe #descendants rise of red #the rise of red #descendants fic #descendants ror #descendants: the rise of red #chloe descendants #red descendants

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solarsleepless · 1 year ago

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"you... knew madison." ashlyn whispers, barely audible over the crackling fire. "didn't you?"

when she looks over, maddox's face is inscrutable, and she doesn't look ashlyn's way, staring into the fire. "yeah." she says, then laughs bitterly. "i'm sure you've already figured who she was to me."

guilt and something else wells up in ashlyn, as she thinks back to it. how madison had looked at maddox with some kind of infatuation, the words that had been spoken between them. madison had wanted maddox, but in more of that psychotic if i can't have you, no-one else can kind of way.

"you were together." she guesses, and maddox lowers her head, a clear answer. "how were you... why would you..."

"date someone like her?" maddox's voice is a little frigid, but it's trembling, too, and when ash glances over, her eyes are glistening a little. "well, i don't know if you know this, ashlyn, but sometimes when you meet people they seem so pretty and nice... and turn out to be a piece of shit."

and. well. ashlyn can't really say anything to that, can she? she's only ever had one boyfriend, and he's genuinely a nice guy, and they still keep in touch. they're still friends. ashlyn's heart aches though, for maddox, for this strange outlaw who just seems so kind.

so she says nothing. watches her. the glow of the fire makes her face look ethereal, almost otherworldly; she looks like a goddess, including the distant coldness. yet she couldn't be as apathetic as a goddess, could she?

ashlyn doesn't know what did it, whether it was the silence or something else, but maddox's eyes flicker to her briefly before she speaks.

"me, EJ, nini and madison—we used to sneak out of our houses and play together. like, hiding behind houses, stealing food, trying to convince the barman we were 21. you know."

no, ashlyn doesn't know—firstly, her parents liked to keep a sharp watch on her, but they were still mostly kind, and they didn't raise their voice often at her, and so she never felt the need to escape, not like EJ did. and secondly... she was too much of a coward, too afraid of breaking the rules. it was how she'd become the sheriff, why EJ hadn't.

but... if ashlyn had been just a little bit braver... she could've met maddox so much earlier. the idea alone takes her breath away.

"but even then, we all knew EJ was going to join you guys." maddox's eyes flicker over and then stay there. "me and madison, we were from the poorer areas, and we knew we were never going to make it out of there. nini was going to join you guys too, you know that?"

awed, ashlyn shakes her head.

"yeah." a hint of a smile goes on maddox's face for the first time. "she wanted to be with EJ, and ricky. but then her and her moms moved. and then some other, much less kind sheriff... well..." maddox grimaces, and a spasm of grief passes over her face and oh. oh, shit. "that obviously immediately soured nini's opinion of the system as a whole, and her and her mom ended up coming back here."

ashlyn covers her mouth, the idea sickening her. she looks over at the tent, where nini is curled up next to miss jenn.

"yeah." maddox has been watching her, but when ashlyn looks back, her eyes immediately stick to the ground. "so, nini joined me and jet, and we formed the cali hunters. val's story of getting involved is a whole ordeal, so i won't say anything here, but. yeah."

"but why?" ash turns to her, desperate. "why did you form the hunters? why do you have to steal in the first place? you know, we could've had you as part of our group, as part of our department... all of this could've been avoided! so why do you decide to steal, instead? i just don't... why, just, why?"

maddox stares at her for a long time, eyebrows raised, very incredulous. then, she scoffs. "of course you wouldn't get it." she pokes the fire with a stick, and something about it, just, her clear distaste of ash's question—it ignites something in ashlyn.

"what do you mean 'you wouldn't get it'?" ashlyn asks, voice sharp. maddox's eyes meet hers, but this time, it's on the end of her glare. ashlyn's never been on the other end of maddox's glare, and it sends an electric tingle down her spine. she pushes that down and concentrates on this conversation. "what wouldn't you get?"

"you don't understand a thing about me." maddox snarls, and for a second, she's scarily reminiscent of madison, all scowls with no sympathy. but then the light flickers, and she's maddox again.

the northern heights may have taken everyone's horses, but what they neglected to consider was that they could take cash caswell's. ej and ash were 100% going to get the brunt of his anger later when he found out, especially when he realized they'd taken his prize horse, lucky, with them.

ej had gone with them, but maddox had been tempted to sit him down instead because of how unsteady on his feet he was. however, the second mazzara, the ex-sheriff had heard about ricky's disappearance (and, judging by his concerned glance maddox's way, her team's disappearance, too) and come immediately, and ej was in good hands with him. nini insisted on coming along, too, despite her obvious concussion, and, well, she was too determined to sit out of this.

also, obviously, miss jenn, the old leader of the previous team of outlaws came too, giving the outlaws that remained a big hug.

carlos was shaken up, obviously, but mostly pissed off. maddox had seen him kick madison's corpse's ribs. she's sure she heard one of them crack. good. anyways, he's so pissed he's bringing his boyfriend into this—sebastian, with strong arms and who is a decent shot, a cowherd who maddox has only, heh, heard of him, but has never actually met him, and he's nice, but clearly is down to beat up some people.

then there's ashlyn caswell. she's not doing too hot, but resolutely tells them she's ready to take northern heights down. (maddox misses the concerned look mazzara shoots ashlyn.)

seb and carlos go on horse together, mazzara and EJ go on a horse together, and miss jenn and nini go on horse together.

which leaves ashlyn and maddox.

when they see everyone else has paired up, they look over at each other, both having experience going long ways on horseback, and both knowing just how... er, close, you get to the other person on horseback.

"i'll..." maddox looks at the horse (they got lucky himself), and clears her throat to hopefully hide the flush that's risen to her cheeks. "i'll go up front."

"yeah." ashlyn clears her throat, too.

maddox gets on first with only a little difficulty, although this horse is a bit taller than what she usually deals with, so ashlyn steps behind her, hands hovering just in case. she nearly does slip, and ashlyn puts a hand on the underneath of her leg. maddox is glad that ashlyn can't see how bright red her face is as she clambers onto the horse and ashlyn lets go immediately.

ashlyn's next, and as she's a little taller (and she actually uses horses a lot, due to the whole sheriff thing), she gets on without a bump in the road.

there's a few moments of hesitation, but then ashlyn slides both hands around maddox waist and oh. yeah, she'd. she'd. she'd really forgotten how close they would be for this. and they have to do this for what, a couple days?

yeah. this'll be fun.

most of the journey is filled with miss jenn checking maps to make sure they've taken the correct direction and nini almost passing out from heat stroke (mazzara had a towel to cover her up and gave her a spare flask of water to keep her going)

when night falls, small little dens for tents are made around one tree they've found in the middle of the whole desert. there's three sets of tents. so two people in each tent. ej is already taking one of the tents with nini to make sure she's okay in the shade, while jenn and mazzara awkwardly began to build the rest of the tents. leaving ashlyn and maddox on fire making duty.

maddie has found a kit for making a fire in jenn's set of stuff, and begins to prep it all while taking sticks and stones from around the one tree in the middle of nowhere.

they sit in silence while the others are busy doing whatever they're doing. maddox stares into the fire with a mix rage and sadness boiling inside of her. she expects ash to say something during the longed silence, but nothing comes. she counts in her mind but after a while she realises ash isn't going to say anything. maybe she's just fallen asleep?

when glancing over at the girl beside her, though, ash is awake. she staring into the fire too, but not in the same way maddie was. her eyes are glassy and filled with sadness and something else. maddox can't think of what's caused her between the whole time of travelling that ash has looked like this before.

"you good, sheriff?" maddox asks, as if the answer wasn't fucking obvious.

ash's eyes snap away from the fire in front of them, glancing over at maddox. there's something about the lighting the flame gave to maddox and the scenario at hand, but ashlyn was not expecting to see such a beautiful girl when she looked over at the outlaw. she was an outlaw, ashlyn told herself, remember that.

"yeah." ash replies quietly, going to look back at the flame. maddox was no genius, but she could tell from a mile away that wasn't the truth.

she rummages in her pockets for a second, making ash furrow her eyebrows as she practically empties her pockets right in front of her. out comes two handkerchiefs, a few rings, a quill and then some pennies. maddox sprays out all of the pennies to get a better look at them in the light before picking up the one that looked the best, holding it out to ash, "penny for your thoughts?"

ashlyn takes a moment to see if maddox was serious, seeing the outlaw's proud face. ash tries to hold it in, but eventually finds herself laughing as she took the penny out of her hand. the laugh must have something contagious in it, because maddox starts smiling, too.

ash stares at the penny in her hand and the laughs die down to a giggle, then silence, mixed with the sounds of the fire’s crackles. "i've never shot a person before." she admits finally. "let alone killed." what. the. fuck. but she was the sheriff. how the fuck has the sheriff never- "was trained how to shoot and aim. but never on a real person."

maddie listens to ash carefully, unsure what to say or do. she'd shot a few people, but never killed up until now. madison had deserved it. that's at least what she had been telling herself.

ash laughs but it's not a laugh she'd let out if something was funny. it was as though she was exhausted. "I've spent the whole of my life training to become a sheriff. but i can't even fire a gun at anyone."

"ash-" maddox begins to speak but when ashlyn looks up at her something changes. tears and guilt flood their tension and it makes more sense now to maddie. ash wanted the best for the town, not to get rid of maddox and the cali hunters. "she was going to kill me, you know?" maddox tries to say it casually, but there's no easy way to put it. "you saved my life-"

"by taking another's." ashlyn added on, looking back down at the coin that maddie had gifted her. "if i can't shoot anyone what's the point in being a sheriff?"

the quietness between them is awkward, and ash is pretty sure maddox doesn't have an answer for her, "I think you're a pretty good sheriff." she eventually says, leaning back in the sand slightly.

ash thinks she's talking utter bullshit, "really? is that why you always come back to rob us?"

maddox grows a smirk for a moment, "nah, i'm just a shithead." before she can think it through she then adds on, "plus i get to see your pretty face, then." the lighting from the campfire makes it hard for maddie to see, but ash can feel herself blushing. fuck. why was she blushing? "danger of taking lives comes with the job, ash." maddie tells her, "but the best sheriffs don't immediately attempt to kill. they work around the situation. probably arrest one or two outlaws..."

"they seem to enjoy blowing holes in my cell walls, though." ashly comments, reminding maddox of the last time she was held up in slammer.

"yeah..." maddie just smiles at the memory, "sorry 'bout that..." and then the silence between them returns, with the two of them just staring at the fire once again. ash wasn't a bad sheriff, she had saved someone's life. maddox's life. but was it worth madison's?

#was gonna add more but decided you should get some time to shine #also specifically maddox is talking abt the class difference #in case it wasn't obvious LMAO #ngl ashlyn is giving caitlyn kiramman in this au #anyways. sorry if it's too long HJSHJFHHJR

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lycheefruiit · 10 months ago

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I've seen some people say they hate this version of Jane Doe and I find that so interesting. What they are specifically disliking is the hair and they are saying that they wish that Ashlynn Maddox used her real hair but honestly, IM A FAN OF THE WIG. Okay so hear me out! I have a room full of porcelain doll's and their hair IS this texture when comparing. People are saying you can clearly tell it's a wig, but I LIKE THAT. We need to remember that her head is decapitated and she appears with a PORCELIAN DOLLS head instead.. SO YEAH, SHOULDN'T THE HAIR LOOKING FAKE FIT MORE?

#ride the cyclone

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jq37 · 5 months ago

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Descendants: The Rise of Red is kind of a bizarre movie to talk about critically because, imo, it almost doesn't make sense to talk about it in the usual terms of good vs bad or enjoyable vs not enjoyable when the way more obvious tension is finished vs unfinished.

Because, more than any other movie I've ever seen, it does *not* read as a full movie. And I don't mean in a "this movie has a cliffhanger" kind of way. The Empire Strikes Back and Across the Spiderverse fit that description. They end on big dramatic cliffhangers that point to a resolution in the third installment.

But Rise of Red just sets all this stuff up and then...ends without concluding anything. It doesn't feel like the first movie in a trilogy (or duology). It feels like the first act of a two-act musical. It very specifically reminds me of the end of the first act of Into the Woods where all the main characters sing the song Ever After about how they all fixed their problems with magic and nothing bad will ever happen to them again and then the narrator ominously says "To be continued" before the curtain drops. But in Into the Woods you know there's a second act and this movie wasn't sold as the first act of a bigger story. Like sure, it has the, "You didn't think this was the end" tag at the end like all the other movies, but those movies were complete, self-contained stories even though they had sequels. This was NOT a full story. It's half of one story.

Like, if we're supposed to take this as a full story, there are so many bizarre choices:

Why did they make sure to mention that Cinderella and Charming fell in love at the ball at the top if it wasn't meant to set up Back to the Future style, "Oh no, I accidentally got my mom banned from the ball so she's not gonna fall in love with Dad and I won't be born" shenanigans?

Why did Maddox very pointedly have that bit about "you could lose your mom completely" if that was never going to come into play? Red never did anything to endanger Bridget or endanger her own birth so it doesn't make sense as a warning in that way.

Why was there all this focus on this Carrie on prom night moment for Bridget if we LITERALLY NEVER SAW CASTLECOMING? Why dance around this moment and talk about it all cloak and dagger with no specificity if they weren't building up to some big reveal that it wasn't as straightforward as it seemed? And like, they leaned in HARD with making Bridget the nicest, sweetest, cotton candy princess as a teen so I need WAY more than, "She got pranked by known bullies she's been enduring with a smile very handily up to this point" to buy that she went from that to "murderous dictator". And even if she did become murderous, I find it insanely hard to believe that she'd include her best and only friend on the list of people she wants to suffer unless there was a betrayal. I find it INSANE that there wasn't a falling out scene at any point in this movie with how thickly they were laying on the admiration and camaraderie.

(Note: And adult Cinderella def has guilty vibes re: the Queen at orientation. Which I know I'm not imagining because it's literally spelled out in the Jr Novelization!)

Before the time travel element of the movie started, I thought they were going for something like they go to the past and realize that Bridget was bullied not by the VKs but by the spoiled royals, and Ella ends up joining in the bullying once she gets with Charming, betraying Bridget and justifying her whole "Love Ain't It" philosophy. Or Ella ditching her at the last minute to be with Charming meaning she has to deal with the monster prank alone and it was the being alone rather than the prank itself that hurt her (though that is NOT a good enough reason to go all off with their heads on your subjects). The fact that, as far as we know right now, it literally was just a relatively mild and reversible prank that caused all of this is just, such flat storytelling, you know?

But! All of this makes way more sense if this is meant to be the first act of a single contained story. And I don't wanna be all "Pepe Silvia, secret good 4th episode of Sherlock" about this but I did see this picture:

Which seems to indicate that this was written as a Part One. Which, if so, idk why they wouldn't advertise it that way but whatever. The point is, if that's the case then it means that we're potentially in bad pacing territory rather than straight up bad storytelling territory. Because this isn't a bad place to be halfway through your story:

The heroes, warned that time travel is dangerous, have gone back in time to change the heart of a brutal tyrant before she can stage a coup. They seemingly succeed in their mission and when they come home, everything is great! But then, the side effects of time travel start to catch up with them. Chloe realizes that, in breaking the vase, she prevented her mother from going to the ball and falling in love with her dad (who was conspicuously absent from the final scene btw) which means she's starting to be forgotten and erased from the timeline. And Red realizes that though this new version of her mom is as sweet and kind as the teen she once met, she's a complete stranger to her (fulfilling the Hatter's warning that she could lose her mom completely). So they have to go back in time once more to make sure the Ella and Charming fall in love again, perhaps at the cost of whatever bad thing that happened to Bridget happening again and bringing back the original version of her future self. But, now with more context of how her mom became that way, Red can now talk to her mother and persuade her to give people another chance.

Boom, that gives us time to go back and hit everything we haven't yet hit. We can pay off the time travel tropes that were set up but not explored. We can go to Castlecoming which feels so obviously set up to be the centerpiece of this story (like, come on, Back to the Future literally does the school dance thing. This is Time Travel Storytelling 101). We can actually get info about what the prank was and why it affected Bridget so completely.

(Note: This is a side thing but it really strikes me as so crazy that Bridget would so SUCH a big 180 here. Like, I know the Queen of Hearts is a silly, goofy, campy villain, but she straight up murders people and there's no way to get around that if we're taking her out of the surreal story she comes from and putting her in a (comparatively) grounded story. If I wasn't doing a betrayal plot, I would make the twist that the spell that turned Bridget into a "monster" didn't just have a physical effect, it had a mental effect and it magically twisted her personality to be the way it is now. So they broke the physical half of the curse, but neglected the other half and it's been festering the whole time, turning her as evil as she was sweet. Because like, a simple physical transformation isn't that big of a deal to have such heavy security--Bridget made cupcakes with a transformative effect and that was totally fine. I'm not saying that that's what's gonna be the case. I just think it would be an explanation that makes sense for why she changed so crazy much that makes more sense than a simple prank or even a betrayal. Her mom wasn't even evil! How did she go from zero to murder without even an evil mom to push her onto the path? But I'm super digressing right now.)

(Note #2: OK, one last thing. The trap on the book presumably would have hit the VK's and trapped them in Merlin's office regardless of what Chloe and Red did, right? That's like, net zero influence on the timeline. I genuinely can't tell if that's a straight up plot hole or set up to be like, "Oh no. Actually when she said that she was turned into a monster in front of everyone it was meant in a less literal way." Like she was just made to look bad and that was the real thing that pushed her over the edge. Like idk. It really feels like the only thing they really did that would change the timeline was get Ella banned from the dance and presumably out of the way where she couldn't hurt Bridget. OK NOW I'm done.)

Anyway, my point is that this is not how I would have structured my movie and I think this was a super weird way to go into the second era of Descendants movies, but they can still tell a complete story if that's their plan. I'm genuinely really curious to see if this pans out to be a fairly competently told story that just happens to be split over two movies or a complete fumbling of the narrative bag because it could really be either at this point and it's fascinating to me.

#rise of red #descendants #descendants rise of red #descendants the rise of red #i have never seen a dcom paced like this #uma DOES say that messing with time has consequences which gives me a glimmer of hope that they're going for a 'we have to go back' thing #but idk I've stopped assuming that writers know that they're doing #if I was ending this movie on this note here's how I'd do it #I'd have it end the same but when red and her mom are dancing I'd have one lingering shot of her being a little uneasy #and uncomfortable with this new version of her mom #and I would show chloe happily reuniting with her mom but then pan over to another part of the room and show that like #a portrait or s/t that had charming in it before now just has ella #or maybe something more subtle like something he placed on a table or something earlier in the movie isn't there anymore #just a little thing to be like 'don't worry we know what we're doing'#that would give me a lot more confidence #I was so sure that Chloe was gonna find Cinderella and she was gonna turn around and be like 'who are you?'#*that's* how you do a cliffhanger #and then in the next movie we could have had the tension of 'yeah we saved your mom from being evil but now mine doesn't know I exist'#listen there's a lot of ways they can handle this #they just need to pick literally any of them #last thing:#in the Jr. Novelization #the line is that the prank turned her into a *giant* during the dance #not a monster #i wonder if the giant prank was an 'eat me/drink me' wonderland ref before it was changed #also there is a world where they changed it from giant to monster bc they wanted to do s/t with the monster body/monster personality thing #but that is TOTALLY veering into pepe silvia/secret good episode or sherlock territory lmao #for the record I did not buy it I checked it out from the library #I'm not above buying jr novelizations (i happily own the disenchanted one)#but I'm not into descendants like that

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