#specifically my boi Shen yuan

[starry-bi-sky]

mmmmmm read a disciple shen yuan/shizun luo binghe fanfic about two days ago where the first chapter was the Immortal Conference arc, and SQQ was the one who had to be pushed into the abyss (he was still the villain) except Luo Binghe was refusing and was like, lowkey losing his mind about SQQ being so close to the edge. SQQ ended up having to be the one to fall in himself because of the system's punishment system. The rest of the fic is leading up to that moment. But like, MMM i've been obsessively thinking about that first chapter for DAYS ever since.

now i've been in svsss for a grand total of *checks watch* a week. but god obsessed with that. I want to write/read a fic where disciple SQQ goes a little nuts down there. Like keep all of the things that make SQQ, SQQ, but just. Throw in a little bit more trauma in there. A little bit of a mental break. Let him go a little nuts as a treat. Just a tad unhinged. I wanna see him go, just a little, "god fuck it, i've tried so hard to change this shitty story's outcome and it feels like everything i've done has been for nothing. I'm going to die in this world no matter what I do, I've been doomed from the start, so might as well die the way I want to." and he just, breaks a little! Under all the stress.

He still retains the traits that makes shen yuan, shen yuan, like his overwhelming kindness. But he's just! yk. A little less patient. Paranoid. Jumpy. Colder. A little more aloof and closed off. A little more Shen Jiu. He's no asshole child abuser, but he was a Number One Hater in his past life and he's leaning into that old habit a little more now.

(On a totally coincidental not-at-all related note, there's not enough SJ-and-SY-are-the-same-people fics out there that i've found. This is totally unrelated...)

The Endless Abyss turns the mind into an over-sharpened blade, and SQQ is both fascinated and perhaps a little excited to explore a place that doesn't have a lot of info on it in the mortal realm, but still terrified out of his mind. And he's no Luo Binghe, he doesn't have the sheer brute strength and power to just bulldoze his way through, so he has to be a lot more sneaky and cunning if he wants to survive.

The fic itself role-swapped LBH and SQQ so that SQQ was the half-demon (which lowkey fucks) and LBH the human, but I'm equally-if-not-more obsessed with the idea that LBH remains the half-heavenly demon and SQQ the human. If only because I keep thinking about SQQ befriending some demons (particularly and specifically a group of succubi) and they grow very attached to this Human Cultivator so through magic plot stuff they create some kind of seal/illusion/talisman that makes SQQ appear as a demon because a human cultivator in the endless abyss may as well be the equivalent of putting a giant neon target on your back.

And iirc Shen Jiu was taught demonic cultivation by that one guy(?? i've only been here a week so im not caught up in ALL of the lore yet) so that could totally happen here.

(On the other end of the realms, poor Shizun Luo Binghe is just. losing his fucking mind over losing his most precious and beloved disciple. About .5 seconds from burning down the peaks himself. somebody sedate him.)

The Endless Abyss sucks and SQQ is having a really terrible time and can feel himself going lowkey mad, but also holy shit look at all this WORLD-BUILDING. look at all this flora and fauna, and oh if he had the equipment for it he'd be writing all of this down. ALL OF IT. He was kinda-sorta-already planning on never leaving the Abyss as some sort of fucked up self-exile and self-preservation thing, but now he might? actually just?? never leave if he can help it, like he lowkey likes it down here.

anyways the next time anyone ever sees SQQ again he's got hair so long its almost touching the ground and he's either in rags and half-feral or he's been completely dolled up by his adoptive succubi sisters and still about three seconds from biting anyone who tries to touch him. (he's also lowkey trying to book it back down to the abyss even if he has desperately missed all of his friends and shizun)

[allpiesforourown]

I know the iconic rumpled sheets fic made us unanimously agree years ago that shen yuan gets super sexy in the heat but lately there's been a very specific image in my head of role reversal disciple shen yuan perishing in the summer

Like imagine you are Luo binghe and shen yuans shizun... the boy already has no sense of propriety but on a hot day he's lounging around your house, wearing one layer that's barely opaque, he's flapping the fabric back and forth to cool himself down, showing off his bare chest every time he pulls it away

He puts up his pretty silky hair in a ponytail and you can see the back of his neck, shiny with perspiration, just waiting for you to taste it..

On top of that his face is flushed red, he's sweaty and his eyes are dazed, he's panting softly as he gazes up at you with his lips parted. He whines "shizun, please... it's so hot, I feel like I'm melting..."

He's begging his shizun to use one of the ice talismans, but last time you used them you found out they made the bamboo house too cold and shen yuan got sick. But he's still stubbornly pouting and looking at you through half lidded eyes going "shizun please, just this once, just for a little bit, I'll be okay..."

You give him some cold water and he holds the glass with both hands and moans as he drinks, completely ignoring some of the water spilling past his lips and down his chin, dripping onto his chest... then he groans and weakly pulls on you and says it's not enough, please.. and his robe falls off one shoulder and. Um.

Sorry yeah . Thinking about disciple shen yuan being needy for... for air conditioning..

[starchbean]

As much as I love a good soft boy, I really don't see Shen Yuan as that. I see him portrayed that way a lot in fic where he is himself (or another character) and not Shen Qingqiu. Maybe he is when compared to Shen Jiu specifically, but not in general. He has attitude. He has edge.

Peerless cucumber will pick out all your flaws and eviscerate you. Then he'll pick you back up and make you better.

((The portrayal doesn't exactly bother me, I'll still enjoy reading it, but this is my interpretation))

[ungodly-amounts-of-godly-trauma]

wotw round 1

propaganda under the cut!

shen qingqiu:

Okay first a quick intro: Shen Qingqiu / Shen Yuan is the main character of SVSSS, and his deal is that he's a guy from the modern world who wakes up in the novel he read, in the body of one of the characters. Shen Yuan is his name in his original world, while Shen Qingqiu is the name of the character he became - that he uses for himself for most of the novel.

Now, what happened to him… The thing is, at the core of his woobification are his actual canon traits, but some fans really crank them up to the point where it becomes a disservice to the character. So you never know when someone saying "oh Shen Qingqiu is so oblivious" means "due to several intersecting factors Shen Qingqiu has some extremely specific blindspots regarding certain topics" (which is just true) or "haha Shen Qingqiu could get kissed by a man and still not realize that man has romantic feelings for him" (just one variation of the sentiment, but one i find particularly bewildering considering. in canon. a man kissing him was exactly what made Shen Qingqiu realize that man was actually in love with him. like my dudes the bar is low but its there!).

Stumbling into this second version in fic was funny a first few times, but now it's like… I genuinely can't tell whether any particular author is overplaying it for comedy, or genuinely believes the character is That dumb.

Also ppl often severely underestimate his power level. Like idk if that's because they compare him to the characters he often hangs out with, who are those genius top-of-the-world experts (despite him outpacing literally everyone else he ever fought against), or because of how he bungled his first-ever case (like, you know, two weeks after waking up in a whole NEW BODY, in a different world), or because he tends to downplay his own strength and also tries to avoid killing people… but like, this man took a technique that in the original was just "aesthetic and interesting" and developed it into something that could be super deadly within weeks, he's just not using it that way. And he also fixed og Shen Qingqiu's broken cultivation within the first few months of being in that body. So he's actually extremely talented and pretty strong, he just spends most of the book either nerfed by external factors (such as poison that disables his spiritual energy at random times) or surrounded by veritable powerhouses.

And this is for Shen Yuan-as-Shen Qingqiu. But the version that drives me completely up the wall is actually the portrayal of just Shen Yuan - in fanworks where he either never gets transported to the world of the novel, or wakes up as a different character. Because suddenly the traits that already get unduly amplified with Shen Qingqiu version become straight up caricature-like. He's not only oblivious to the extreme, he also gets painted as this completely naive soft babyboi (this is about a guy whose most well-known pre-transmigration canon trait is that he writes famously vitriolic rants about novels on the internet); plus, like, on the physical level, super frail and waifish which uh. wow. nice walking right back into the BL tropes the novel itself avoided?…… So yeah I'm super not keen on this portrayal. I know he doesn't appear as not-Shen Qingqiu version of himself in the novel, if we don't count the rant in the beginning, but like. please extrapolate from the character we actually have instead of writing this mega-woobie who shares nothing with the base version?

Terrible little bastard man who has a sad backstory but is actually genuinely a terrible person. Fans like to act like he is just a soft sad boi deep inside and make him lose all of his edge.

So the thing about Shen Jiu / og!Shen Qingqiu in canon is that we first learn of him as an unquestionably, almost cartoonishly villainous character. As in, he is literally a villain in the book our main character has been reading… before dying and waking up in the world of the book, as that very villain (hence the distinction of Shen Jiu being the "original" Shen Qingqiu, as our main character begins to use the name Shen Qingqiu for himself. Shen Jiu, however, is an old name that only the original has used). The original Shen Qingqiu that our main character knows is a serial child abuser in a teaching position, a murderer (killed his colleague, killed his old fiancee's entire family…), and a lecher (visited brothels and had designs on his female disciple).

Then, over the course of the novel, we learn more about Shen Jiu - in particular, that a number of things our MC "knew" about him were not true. He did not kill his colleague, but rather failed to save him, despite trying to; he killed his "fiancee"'s family because her older brother has abused him for years (and also, Shen Jiu was forced into agreeing to marry her), and also he only actually killed half of them (only men); he visited brothels because he only felt safe in the company of women, and he just went there to get a good night's sleep; and he only ever saw that female disciple he was accused of lusting after as a daughter. And in general, he had a horrible childhood, and was himself a victim of abuse.

However, not everything gets disproved. Shen Jiu still turned from a victim to perpetrator, abusing a child (coincidentally the protagonist of the og book) and trying to set him up to die/be killed several times. Canon is very clear on that point. The situation with Shen Jiu and the og book version of the protagonist is very much an illustration of cycles of abuse.

Also at a certain point, we meet the author of the in-world book, the one our MC was reading - who explains he scrapped Shen Jiu's tragic backstory because it would make him too controversial. Quoting from memory, something like: 'if you said he was a villain, he was also tragic; but if you said he was pitiful, he'd also done terrible things. All in all, a character like this was a hotbed for all kinds of fandom discourse.'

Prophetic fucking words.

Somehow, seeing all that, some 'fans' have decided to jump into a completely opposite direction: making Shen Jiu a poor little misunderstood meow meow who did nothing wrong ever and was a soft princess and totally was never mean to the protagonist ("the protagonist just has inflated sense of ego and misunderstood Shen Jiu's normal teaching as singling him out for abuse" was a take I had to see with my own two eyeballs. Theres btw an extra from Shen Jiu's pov where he laments that the fake manual he gave the kid has failed to horrifically kill him yet).

Which puts the rest of us in an awkward position of having to defend his canon assholery. Like, the whole point of this character is that he's complex! That he's both a villain and a victim! Reducing him to just one is doing him a disservice, and either extreme is equally incorrect! And this is something that happens with many similar characters, I know, but what boggles my mind about Shen Jiu's case in particular is that. it's spelled out. The whole deal with his character is spelled out in canon. And some people still go "oh so Shen Jiu was secretly the most morally pure and good character, got it". Like. how?????????????? ??? ?? ?????

noriaki kakyoin:

Uke-fied to the max so he can be shipped with jotaro lol

Ohmygod where do I even start. Kakyoin's the poster boy for twinkification and woobification of a canonically very capable, interesting (and not twinky at all) character who's so many things at once- a loyal friend, really smart, a bit of a weirdo, infodumping trivia at random times, quick-thinking in dangerous situations, reckless, polite and respectful, vengeful towards enemies but always kind to friends, depressed, determined and motivated in the face of mortal danger despite it all - even when he had the chance to leave the Stradust Crusaders and just come back to his normal life, he decided to stick with them. This decision eventually cost him his life since he got killed by Dio, the main villain. The fandom either calls him a cardboard with no personality (which is not true at ALL, where did that take even come from) or they downplay his canon badassery- Jotaro x Kakyoin shippers are often guilty of this along with twinkifying Kakyoin. The ship is fine, but they're way more interesting if you take into account their canon characterisation as huge weirdos who somehow work pretty well together- they're both different flavors of autistic that sometimes just so happen to align on the same wavelength.

[l33n1s]

I love love love the Disciple Shen Yuan au!!! It makes my brain go brr, I have so many questions… How does the game go when sqq pushed lbh into the Abyss? Is lbh obsessed with his kind shixiong? Does he ever find out the truth of what happens between sy and sqq?

How does sy feel when sqq is put in the water prison?

I also really love the Disciple Shen Yuan Au! I, however, have only authored one post about a disciple Shen Yuan, which does not make sense in the context of this ask. If you are, instead, refering to this post which I reblogged I would suggest sending the OP an ask about the details of their specific AU!

But if we're speaking more generally: personally I don't think a disciple AU shifts the way that Shen Yuan experiences the events of cannon all that much, at least as far as Lou Binghe is concerned. By the time Shen Yuan transmigrates his feelings toward and opinions of Lou Binghe are largely set. They do change over time, evolving from love of a favorite character to real romantic love, but never in a way that lessens Shen Yuan's love for him. I think the biggest change a disciple AU produces is a relationship between Shen Yuan and the Original Shen Qingqiu. It places him in the, very stressful, position of caring for the happiness and safety of two people who are diametrically opposed as a genre convention. The stallion protagonist who will have revenge and the villian who will only dig himself deeper. Of course Shen Yuan still does his best to protect Lou Binghe , but in a disciple AU he has different abilities, different social status, different power than his cannon self does. I think, given he can do nothing to prevent Shen Qingqiu from throwing Lou Binghe into the abyss he would largely react the same: like a widow who lost their soulmate. The difference is, in a disciple AU, he doesn't get to check out emotionally because he now has the added conflicting feeling of praying for and dreading Lou Binghe's return.

Lou Binghe would absolutely adore his kind shixiong tho. He would follow him around like a puppy. Oh, the only guy in your life who doesn't hate/bully you is also warm and caring and too pretty? Lou Binghe never stood a chance. How is he supposed to not be obsessed with the pretty older boy who makes sure he eats, and lets him borrow his bed, and helps fill in the gaps in his education, and makes sure he's out of sight when he knows their shizun is in a violent mood?

[absolmon]

So I was inspired by @sinn-bee and their dragon AU to recreate their Shen Yuan and Liu Qingge's dragon forms. I'm totally in love with this AU and I thought it would be fun to compare how I designed based on their art vs what I did for the canon character's in SVSSS.

On the left is the design I did off their design and the right is based on the canon one. I went with a Veilspun for Sinn's design because the horn shape is probably the most similar to the one's on SY, plus the hair on them is such a big aspect of them. It's a little funny that I made him a Veilspun because in Flight Rising canon Veilspun are the smallest dragon's, about the size of a cat, whilst Sinn!SY is a big boy. I made a point to make him Mint because SY's color change is the biggest indicator in their AU that Shen Jiu was replaced. I thought filigree would be a good touch to reference the bracers that are a focal point on SY's clothing.

Canon SY I focused mostly on elegance and a wind theme, so I went with a Skydancer. The outfit was the most complicated thing, mostly because there aren't any specifically Chinese hanfu in the game. I had to do a lot of layering.

Once again, Sinn's design is on the left and the one based on canon is on the right. Liu Qingge was easy to decide on a breed because of his antler shaped horns! I had to go with an Imperial, which are based on both Asian mythology and the largest breed in the game with my largest one the length of an eleven story building. I wanted to focus on making Sinn!LQG as delicate and beautiful looking as possible. I thought the silver Opal really gave him a cool natural look. I think he and Sinn!SY would look beautiful together.

My canon version was focused mostly on his meat head fighter side, but I couldn't resist giving him a cute skin designed by FR user larkhund. I love the gap moe of it. I'm not completely happy with the outfit, but I think it works.

I hope you like it Sinn, I'm so excited to see more of your art. Keep it up!

[irrealisms]

svsss and sexual violence pt. 2: gender and homophobia

standard disclaimer at the beginning: i am not saying that this is the Only thing svsss is about, or that other readings are invalid; i am not intending to character-bash most of the characters here (while i will freely admit to thinking e.g. old palace master or qiu jianluo are pretty one-dimensionally shitty, lots--probably most--of the characters in this series who i mention as perpetrating SA are characters who do have depths & who i in fact like a lot! despite this meta, or perhaps because of it, my second-favorite character is luo binghe, and i am in fact a bingqiu shipper!); and, obviously, huge fucking CW for sexual abuse and adjacent topics. this one's also got a CW for, well, homophobia and sexism. this section is approximately 1k.

(also: shoutout to @rooses40stepskincareroutine for motivating me to actually write all this out!)

TABLE OF CONTENTS pt 1: shen yuan's realization of himself as a target pt 2: gender and homophobia (you are here) pt 3: non-bingqiu sexual violence pt 4: shen qingqiu's body pt 5: we live in a society

We talked in the previous post about how Shen Yuan begins the story oblivious to himself as a potential target for sexual violence, and that his realization that he is in danger of this is the same as his realization that he is a target of male sexual desire. One of the quotes I think about a lot here is a much later quote:

Yeah right! Like he’d dare share a room with Luo Binghe. A straight man and a gay one staying in the same room? That was just asking for death. Yes, Shen Qingqiu insisted he was still straight! His willingness to read a stallion novel like Proud Immortal Demon Way was rock-solid proof!

And--on the one hand, this is funny. I'm not going to say this isn't funny, because it is; we as the reader know that Shen Qingqiu is obviously not straight and that reading stallion novels does not actually make you straight. In light of this, his insistence that he is straight is funny!

But. There's also two other things going on here:

We all know the trope of the predatory gay man, right? Gay men (and queer people in general, though the specifics of this vary by sexuality/gender) are seen as inherently sexually predatory; you see this in the idea of gay men "converting" straight men and boys through rape/molestation, you see this in AIDS-era fears of HIV+ men who deliberately tried to spread HIV (often through rape) as much as possible, you see this in modern-day grooming panics. one of the most common ways homophobia manifests is this sort of idea--as a teenager, one of my friend's parents stopped letting me have sleepovers once they learned I was a lesbian, because they didn't want me sleeping in the same room as their daughter; you see stories of people kicking gay people out of changing rooms, of refusing to touch them/let them touch others, and generally isolating them from platonic intimacy with the same gender due to the specter of gay people being sexually predatory. Shen Qingqiu's narration very deliberately calls this to mind: A straight man and a gay one staying in the same room? That was just asking for death. there's interesting things to say here about how mxtx interacts with this trope in her other two novels--lwj and hc are both definitely also engaging with this trope, though very differently--but i'll keep this post focused on scum villain.

however. as established in part one: luo binghe has in fact sexually assaulted and been sexually predatory towards shen qingqiu. between the kiss in the dream and here, we get two major moments: the first, where luo binghe admits he knew it was the real shen qingqiu and not a dream construct when he sexually assaulted SQQ in the dream, and the second, where luo binghe holds shen qingqiu down, tears off his clothes, and explicitly threatens to rape him. which...yes, luo binghe clarifies shortly after (when sqq starts dying) that he wasn't actually going to rape sqq, he just wanted to scare him. but, uh, holding someone down and then--while they try to fight--kissing them, tearing off their clothes, and telling them that you're going to rape them? that is still very much SA. so sqq's fears of LBH are ... well, they're justified, and they're coming from a place of trauma.

I... have some genuinely fairly mixed feelings about how MXTX handles this combination in SVSSS? right now i'm not actually doing very critical analysis of the text tbh, so i won't go into it, but i invite you to think about it for yourself about it!

that said, i have more things to say on other topics. specifically: SY thinks of himself as a straight man, and thus safe. but he's been put in a very feminized position by the narrative. he's constantly on the other end of LBH's wife plots, to the point where, in the extras, the culmination of their marriage involves LBH calling him "wife". the genre change is vital to understanding this--he's no longer a man in the real world, or even a man in a stallion novel; he's a shou in a danmei. (and while there's a lot of discourse on the feminization of bottoms in M/M, esp written by women, i want to emphasize that this isn't exclusive to chinese-language M/M--go read some omegaverse on ao3 to see some men being feminized by the narrative in much more extreme ways, without any of the interesting commentary on genre!) now, this is a role that is also very distinct from being a woman--especially on the doylist level, the [shou/uke/bottom] in M/M is generally written better and is more central to the narrative with fewer sexist tropes than the actual women in the story, and svsss is no exception to this--but it's still very distinctly feminized. something I think about in this regard is how his internet handle, "Peerless Cucumber", is misheard in SVSSS as "Peerless Chrysanthemum"--his name has been changed, by the setting, from something representing [penis/topping] to [anus/bottoming]. It's a representation of traditionally male bottoming, it represents the anus and not the vagina, but it's still a very literal emasculation of Shen Yuan by the setting of SVSSS! another sample quote:

In conclusion: So the female lead’s role was going to Shen Qingqiu again, huh?

this is also particularly interesting to me because of the ways SQQ is sexist, just like the previous quote is interesting because of how SQQ is homophobic. another quote, from earlier in the book:

He was a man, yet he had been forced to meekly tell another man that he would “submit to him,” in front of so many people. And above all, the other man was his former disciple, which made it even more frustrating and shameful.

again, we see his sexism and anxieties around masculinity being tied up in his anxieties around sexual abuse. he sees putting himself in a position where he's at risk for sexual abuse (because he is doing that, he has just learned that LBH knew he was real when sexually assaulting him in the dream, and he is now agreeing to submit & go home with him) as shameful. why? because he's a man. the implications that it's shameful for men to be sexually submissive or get sexually abused (which are conflated here and throughout the novel by SY, although other characters draw a distinction! but SY's views on ~kink, both D/s and S&M, while fascinating and very relevant to the bingqiu relationship and his relationship w queerness, would be thoroughly a tangent here--ask me if you want another post on the subject lol), because men should be "stronger" than that, but it would not be shameful for a woman, because women are supposed to submit to (and be sexually abused by) men, is left as an exercise for the reader. so ... he's being wildly sexist! but even here you can see he's being sexist because he's being emasculated. because he's being pushed into the "female" role, instead of the "male" one, and when it comes to sexual violence & the fear thereof, that's a dangerous place to be. once again, being a man doesn't protect him: a lesson he will keep learning.

there's more to say about gender & sexual violence in SVSSS about other characters, but that mostly gets addressed in the next post, except for my thoughts on gender that aren't about sexual abuse (i have a LOT of these--mostly about bing-ge vs bing-mei, but also about shen yuan's view of femininity as inherently degrading and painful, which the text does not agree with even as it does agree that the societal baggage of femininity often comes with sexual violence; again, ask me if you want another post about that, it would not be part of this meta series but i DO have things to say on it). thanks for reading this one!

[fiftysevenacademics]

2024 in the rearview mirror

This was a difficult year for me, not in any particular way but in many small ways that all added up. Due to being stuck at home for most of the year, I watched an ungodly amount of television.

Cdramas and danmei came to my rescue as escape pods. It started with The Untamed popping up in my Netflix recommendations and I remembered I’d been meaning to watch it, so I started that either at the end of last December or early January and things spiraled out of control from there. So here is my “Best of List.”

Chinese shows or movies I watched or partially watched:

The Untamed (four times)

Handsome Siblings

The Longest Promise (couldn’t finish because it’s awful)

The Double

Sunshine on my Mind (it’s pretty good but I haven’t finished it yet)

Snowfall

Meet You at the Blossom

Word of Honor

Fangs of Fortune

My Journey to You

The Yin-Yang Master: Dream of Eternity

Kill Me Love Me

Love Game in Eastern Fantasy

Hidden Blade

Danmei

The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation (Mo Dao Zu Shi or MDZS- read it twice)

Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System (SVSSS)

Heaven Official’s Blessing (Tian Ci Guan Fu or TGCF- still in progress)

English-language shows of note. (I watch a lot of American and British shows but only these stand out)

We Are Lady Parts

Superstore

Baby Reindeer

The Tourist

Doctor Who

The Brothers Sun

This Fool

Fantasmas

Interior Chinatown

Best of 2024

Best show: Fangs of Fortune (One of the best TV shows I’ve EVER seen and one of only 3 that had me sobbing like a baby at the finale.)

Best M/F pair: Xue Fangfei and Xiao Heng (The Double). A het ship so good it almost made me genuinely miss men. Almost.

Best mortal M/M pair: Wangxian (MDZS; The Untamed)

Best immortal M/M pair: Yuanyi (Zhao Yuanzhou and Zhuo Yichen- Fangs of Fortune) I couldn’t choose between these two pairs and I love them both intensely in different ways so I cheated and broke it down into two categories.

Best F/F pair: Wen Xiao and Pei Sijing (Fangs of Fortune)

Best polycule: The Fangs of Fortune crew

Most fun ship: Bingqiu (Luo Binghe x Shen Qinqiu SVSSS)

Most delicious toxic couple: Jin Xiaobao and Zongzheng Huaien (Meet You at the Blossom)

Character I feel closest to: Jiang Cheng (MDZS; The Untamed)

Character that makes me feel rabidly feral: Zhao Yuanzhou (Fangs of Fortune)

Most valuable player (fictional): Luo Binghe (SVSSS) Always there when I need him.

Most valuable player (real): Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

Most fun: Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System (SVSSS); We Are Lady Parts

Funniest show: Superstore; Interior Chinatown

Most angst: Fangs of Fortune

Most beautiful: Fangs of Fortune

Best developed characters: MDZS

Best female characters: We Are Lady Parts; My Journey to You; The Double

Hottest female character: Ayesha (We Are Lady Parts)

Best adaptation of a novel: The Untamed

Best fandom: SVSSS; Fangs of Fortune

Best (only?) happy ending: Handsome Siblings

Best reveal that I saw coming that made me cry anyway: Wen Yuan-Lan Sizhui

Best villain: Li Lun (Fangs of Fortune)

Most fuckable character: Xue Yang-Untamed version (I’d pounce on it without even thinking twice.); Wen Kexing (Word of Honor) (I’d change gender if I had to.)

Poorest little meow-meow: Jin Guangyao

Goodest boy: Fairy

Simultaneously the most fun and the biggest letdown: Doctor Who (It always is LOL.)

Only cdrama where the the logical effect of tea on insomnia is considered: My Journey to You

Queerest: Fangs of Fortune

Best acting in a torture scene: Wang Yibo in Hidden Blade (Not that I seek these things out, It’s just in the movie and his performance was really really good.)

Most highly specific kinks: Snowfall

Director whose work I want to follow: Guo Jingming

Show I broke up with: Star Trek Discovery

Show I didn't want to watch but ended up liking: Star Trek Lower Decks

Best action: The Brothers Sun

Weirdest: Fantasmas

Biggest disappointment: Chevalier

Best nostalgia trip: Rewatching all of Star Trek TOS, STTNG, DS9, and on to Voyager with my wife, who had never seen them.

Character I like much better now than I did 30 years ago: Quark.

Dislike that has held up over time: Bajoran religion; Neelix and his wife (can't stand them).

[stardust-falling]

Thanks for answering my ask. If you don't mind me asking (again), can I ask something from SVSSS? What do you think are Shen Yuan and Luo Binghe’s greatest personality strengths and weaknesses? Why? What do you love about their dynamic? Sorry if you've answered these questions before.....

P.s

If you want to answer the questions above with Shang Qinghua and Mobei Jun's dynamics, too, I don't mind....

I love reading your posts. Thanks for sharing your analysis metas.....

It's a little difficult for me to nail down clear strengths and weaknesses in personality, because many things which are strengths can also be weaknesses, and weaknesses can also be strengths-- I think some of the best written characters are ones which subvert things like that. Coincidentally, both SY!QQ and LBH exhibit this which makes me enjoy the characters even more.

Long again, so under the cut:

For Shen Yuan, he's clever and adaptable, while he does freak out upon discovering his character role, the transmigration itself hardly fazes him, and throughout the whole story he goes from one mess to another and is almost always able to adjust. Of course, part of this is because he knows the plot of PIDW, and it all feeds into one of his biggest strengths-- self-confidence. I don't often see in fic SY!QQ being written as confidently as he actually is. Aside from when his death is imminent, this man is basically 100% sure of himself in his actions-- he makes a plan and takes it without hesitation and is only rarely seen doubting himself. Typically it works out well for him, actually-- it's this confidence in himself, his abilities, his knowledge, as well as his objectivity, that makes him able to take on this new role, outwit the system where possible, and plan ahead for the future without getting too bogged down in self-doubt and criticism. There are a lot of characters that carry a lot of self-hatred in this story (SQH being a major one... which naturally contributes to everyone else) but Shen Yuan is not one of those. And it's not just him thinking he's the best either-- rather, he's perfectly able to be objective, he understands his own mediocrity, his own strengths and weaknesses. Aside from the sexuality issue, SY!QQ is pretty comfortable with himself.

Where that becomes a weakness, though, is when he is over-confident-- when he thinks that the way he views the world is universal, or that he knows perfectly the way the story ends. If he's adaptable in circumstance, he's rigid in mindset, and it's not until something is directly thrown into his face (or rather, kisses his face) that he even considers that he might have had the wrong idea about a situation. He's a logical person, to a fault-- once something makes sense in his mind, it's hard to change it.

As for Luo Binghe, the boy is determined and devoted-- one of his greatest qualities, which also gives rise to character flaws, would be his tenacity. He isn't someone who will give up, and he will stop at nothing to get what he wants-- and this is something that is true for both Bingge and Bingmei, it's only that Bingmei actually does know what he wants and focuses on that one thing, while Bingge isn't entirely sure, and so focuses on controlling and taking everything.

His determination first manifests, of course, as a determination to survive at all costs, and is an intrinsic part of his "white lotus" character archetype-- meaning, a character that appears sweet and naive but is actually cunning and manipulative beneath that. LBH learned to be manipulative from a young age, but it wasn't because he was evil or anything-- that was just what he had to do to stay alive. Later on, he continued to carry that same desperate tenacity toward something more than just survival-- Luo Binghe wanted to be loved and valued, and no matter what, he would get that. Both versions, actually were the same way, just with a specific target in Bingmei's case vs a non-specific target in Bingge's. Determination and tenacity are usually seen as inherently positive qualities-- in fact, I would say that this quality is basically what makes a protagonist, as the character that is going out and getting what they want despite the difficulties. Overcoming difficulties is how one makes a satisfying story, after all.

The interesting thing with LBH is that despite all of this tenacity, his manipulative traits, etc, he's still a kind and thoughtful person. Again, part of what makes a protagonist a protagonist in many cases-- a character like Luo Binghe, in many stories especially when told from the protagonist's perspective, is meant to be liked by the readers. Luo Binghe, of course, subverts that in some cases by being a darkened protagonist from the start, but also, as much as you can see his tenderness, his concern, his acts of service as a love language, you can also see it as a survival tactic, which begs the question-- how much of LBH's kindness toward SQQ is out of love, and how much out of fear? How much is still carried over from his desperation to be loved by the Shizun who hated him? How much is because he's afraid of losing what he has?

Honestly it's hard to answer-- and that's how it is with trauma. In the end though, I don't think it makes him ingenuine. Most people can't imagine what it would be like to go through Luo Binghe's upbringing, but I'd like everyone critical of the character to take a moment to think about it, to try to empathize with what that history of abandonment and neglect, of being targeted by both peers and superiors no matter how hard you tried, of hoping that things would get better only to have that hope shattered again and again every time, try to think about what that sort of thing would end up doing to your mind-- especially as a developing child. That's the only thing you know-- that's the way the world is to you. LBH's choices, the way he responds to things, it makes a lot more sense when you realize that from his perspective, he finally did something that managed to get SQQ to like him, and finally started opening up, maybe even daring to hope that things would be okay now-- and then the conference happened, and Shizun threw him away again. From his perspective, that's all he knows-- and that's still all he knows as of post-canon too. Obviously, LBH has plenty of issues, and the way he behaves can't be considered good, but it's still understandable.

Anyway, that was a bit of a long rant, but that's a lot of how I see characters, where I'm not usually thinking of them as "good" or "bad" people but as a series of cause and effects, and what makes a good character to me is if the cause and effects in their lives are portrayed well-- that's why I think that so many characters in SVSSS are very good characters, and why I'm so fond of them.

As for Bingqiu's dynamic, my favorite thing has to be how they are simultaneously very unhealthy while also somehow being healthy too? Specifically, they cater to one another's specific fucked up tastes in a way that what would be a red flag for anyone else is a bonus for them-- for example, LBH likes SQQ specifically because of SQQ being his shizun, rather than despite it, while SQQ finds LBH's tendency toward brutality rather charming and would prefer to cheer for his victory, so long as it doesn't come with the total destruction of the world, and doesn't involve he himself having his limbs removed. They've both got very... interesting perspectives and it really shouldn't work between them, neither of them know how to have a healthy relationship with healthy boundaries, and yet somehow in the end it... it does work, and they do establish boundaries-- boundaries that SQQ likes to have pushed, and LBH likes to push, but boundaries nonetheless-- and aside from the first time at Maigu Ridge (which LBH doesn't even want to acknowledge), no matter what they're doing, they always do it with consent.

I love to see the growth in their relationship from the absolute hot mess it is in the main novel, then improving and balancing out through the extras. It's just... so very interesting to see a relationship that starts out extremely unhealthy becoming less so, and ultimately becoming one where it seems both partners are quite happy... honestly, despite the weirdness of it, endgame Bingqiu really isn't very bad at all. Because guess what, sometimes relationships don't start out healthy. That doesn't mean there's nothing to save from them. Sometimes partners can hurt one another and still turn out to be good for one another in the end. People change, relationships change, and sometimes it really is for the better-- and I'm speaking from personal, IRL experience with this. It's not for everyone, but for me, I find the storyline of going from something very toxic and unhealthy to something stable, where Bingqiu are happily living out their cottagecore dreams despite SQQ's still-occasionally-cynical narration, extremely cathartic and somewhat unique. It's not just a bad relationship that miraculously turned good or was retconned into being good. It's a bad relationship where the partners put in the work to turn it into a good one, and I really wish that people would look at it with more nuance-- because if even fictional characters and relationships need nuance, real life people and relationships definitely need it too.

Anyway, I would do Moshang too, but this already got super, super long, so I'll go ahead and save the Moshang meta for another day.

[mikkeneko]

Pondering about that one detail in Scum Villain where the audience of Proud Immortal Demon Way (as reported by Shen Yuan, but there’s no indication that anyone else in the audience disagrees with him) considers Yue Qingyuan’s ambush and death to be Shen Qingqiu’s fault, one of Shen Qingqiu’s many sins, that he ‘betrayed’ the only man who was loyal to him by writing the letter that led YQY to his doom

when you actually get the details of the text it’s clear that it was in no way his fault; it was something Luo Binghe arranged specifically to hurt him; the absolute least charitable interpretation possible is that Luo Binghe extracted that summons letter from him under torture, which is something we have generally agreed is not a good basis for judging someone’s intentions, and all that’s if LBH didn’t simply write the letter himself (and deliver it along with SQQ’s severed body parts, holy shit my boy)

like wow! A+ grade victim blaming on the part of the readers there! and that’s right in the text, and you think “wow, this author sure has a low opinion of the audience’s ability to comprehend nuance or even, honestly, basic reading comprehension, in their rush to be able to point fingers and assign blame”

...

Anyway it’s kind of wild how many takes you get in the MDZS fandom where Jin Zixuan is blamed for causing his own death by wearing yellow or Wei Wuxian is blamed for causing tragedy by acting outside the boundaries of accepted behavior or the Jiang siblings are blamed for their parents’ dysfunctional relationships or the Dafan Wen are blamed for their own enslavement and murder or

[starry-bi-sky]

The first time disciple Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu meets Liu Qingge, it is during a Bai Zhan peak raid. And what ends up happening is that Shen Qingqiu gets kicked in the jaw with such force he feels his teeth clack together unpleasantly. And frustrated with his situation, the system, and quite frankly a ton of other little things that have been building up over the course of the last few weeks, he feels something snap in the back of his mind like that of a rubber band after being stretched too far.

What ends up happening is that Shen Qingqiu turns and locks onto the very first figure he can see that is dressed in grey-and-white like a homing missile, and then with the force of a twin-tailed mountain tiger, lunges towards said figure with an equally menacing snarl.

He ends up taking the Bai Zhan peak disciple by utter surprise, and they both collide into the ground in a tangle of angry yelling and limbs. What ends up happening is that Liu Qingge gets the subsequent wind knocked out of him and pinned into the dirt by a Qing Jing peak disciple who is filled with the might and fury of a scholar having their peaceful afternoon interrupted and a once-grown-man re-experiencing puberty.

It is with that might and fury that Liu Qingge meets the wild, frenzied eyes of Shen Qingqiu, with his lips pulled back into a truly ferocious scowl. Shen Qingqiu hisses out, with such force it makes his voice rasp, as if he might as well sink his teeth into Liu Qingge's throat and rip it out; "Get the fuck off my mountain."

Liu Qingge is so shocked by -- well, quite a many things, but most importantly the fact that he has been pinned, and the way the sun is bouncing off this boy's face, -- that his brain needs five seconds to reboot. It's five seconds too long, because by the time he registers what just happened, Shen Yuan has clambered off him and disappeared. Gone and thrown himself into the closest dust cloud scuffling in order to unleash the rest of his fury on the other Bai Zhan Peak kids.

Qing Jing Peak experiences an unfortunate uptick in Bai Zhan disciple visits -- specifically of the Liu Qingge variety. Specifically Liu Qingge, actually. Who very much wants to find the boy that managed to get one over on him and demand a rematch. (Or maybe kiss him.)

[gurggggleburgle]

being about unhinged headcannons is kinda my entire thing so with that this in mind i am about to say something truly terrible. Given PIDW in universe was generic stallion novel with given it's popularity and the nature of light novels/web novels in general is it safe to assume to Shen Yuan's exposure to Binghe through official art had the man drawn with (and do forgive me for saying this) the same energy and vibes as the tall mature kirito protagonist variant. And here's the thing I KNOW that is fundamentally not our boy as any of OUR art portrays him. But consider that art style for male characters varies between work genres. Like a novel targeted for mostly cis het males looking for sex and violence is going to have different art than high girly romance with a lot of smoochie smoochie meow meow sparkle. So it is completely possible for Luo Binghe to be handsome but bland in the way only this specific archetype can be in all of the official art work. Because the emphasis is on them TIDDIES. So I think PIDW would probably have the most boring book covers. The ones where there's like one of the harem girls on the front in a cute pose and then our boy's just holding his sword looking cool or he's got one in his arms mid catch. You have seen this novel cover in stores and it never makes you wanna actually pick up the book.

Baby Luo Binghe straight up has just generic anime guy art. He's bland wonderbread character design until the abyss and then he becomes long wonderbread with eyeliner and blood. What this would mean is fanart never features him obvious but also it becomes a whole debate about what does Luo Binghe look like in fanart and the inevitable market of nsfw works. It becomes a whole thing of telling artists apart by how they draw him and arguments about what is the CORRECT BINGGE!!

And you bet your ass Shen Yuan has opinions on that shit. Man absolutely has a headcannon for Luo Binghe. Absolutely has his own designs and ideas which is why i think the juxtaposition of seeing him post transmigration is so funny. Like imagine seeing this guy after reading the novel and be like 'that's just an incredibly cute fluffy child!'. Huh, real human features i hadn't considered. Like he sees the protagonist get a pimple because like it's puberty. Everyone gets pimples and is floored. He's in awe that it's even possible. He's completely shook by the fact that Luo Binghe is actually handsome after years of having a specific imagine in mind that does not promote that which only adds to his gay panicking. He's already internalized the concept the protagonist will be the most attractive person but actually seeing it and then having to compare everyone else around him...

Man is just like dial up noises. All around.

[miixz]

Been re-reading SVSSS to write fanfic and I've noticed something....

I think SQQ has a type?? Which is obviously LBH, but like, I think he specifically likes strong, but lovable guys.

Had the thought when I was reading LQG's introduction to the story and SQQ is just bgrvfcesxd

Male readers always fervently admired strong characters. Even though Liu Qingge never officially debuted on page, he hadn’t lacked for fans, and Shen Yuan had been especially fascinated with him. In his headcanon, Liu Qingge had been a sharp and manly man, powerful and magnificent. A war god, right?! Shen Qingqiu looked down at that face, as beautiful as a fine woman’s, and his dreams shattered and died. The fantasies he’d always held, destroyed. How could the invincible Bai Zhan Peak Lord look like his spiritual antithesis? This was clearly the face of a charming young master who arranged flowers and plucked farewell willow branches! With this appearance, you’ve totally betrayed the headcanons of your martial prowess fanatics!

He sees LQG and he's like: what a pretty boy (filled with disappointment).

And throughout the story he does say he admired Bing-ge for all his power and being a badass and whatnot, but he's also all "I wish my Binghe would stay this sweet and adorable and innocent forever."

So he's very happy that Binghe does stay like that in the end. He might poke fun of him for being a little crybaby, but he very much wanted this.

Instead of letting Luo Binghe become that pitch-black basket case of a young man who made destroying the world his personal mission, it’d be better if he could stay this delicate little white lotus forever. Shen Qingqiu absolutely wouldn’t have minded keeping this iteration of Luo Binghe by his side and taking care of him for a lifetime.

I see you and your lies SQQ. 👀

Anyhow, LBH is the strongest and cutest guy around, so obviously he's the only man for SQQ.

But if he must ever find anyone else hot, or have had some other crush hidden in his closet, I'd guess they'd also be like that.

Y'all can thank @ladypfenix for encouraging me to share this very important character analysis.

[rarepears]

I’m just imagining reborn Will as Mobei Jun and Shang Qinghua’s son as being absolutely spoiled with all the demonic beast dogs he could ever want. Specifically those he has found and rescued from a variety of situations just like his pack in his first life.

Baby Will, big puppy dog eyes holding a snarling canine beast: Can we keep him baba?

Shang Qinghua, mentally screaming but also incredibly soft: Sure thing my son, let’s get a dog trainer involved!

The northern palace is swiftly overrun with various canines that are the most loyal good boys and girls, protecting the little Prince and Mobei Jun pats Will’s head at being able to tame so many. Shen Yuan makes frequent visits to admire the pack which is just as much an excuse for Shen Jui to spend time with his “normal” friend as it is Hannibal to slowly realize its Will.

I feel like Will's first bf/suitor should also be a canine humanoid demon (think Zhi Zhu Lang but canine). Pity it didn't work out...

[More in #hannibal lector reborn as Shen Yuan and Luo Binghe's firstborn son AU]

[toomanyplotbunnies-sendhelp]

Hello and welcome to Day 4 of "Let's Explore My Plot Bunnies"

Since yesterday's post was Long™️ I decided that the fic idea I wanna put forward today should be more on the short side (like a one-shot or less than 10 chapters short fic) just so I can claim that my brain isn't torturing me with fics ideas of the length and detail like yesterday's (which is a total lie on my part but claiming otherwise makes me feel better)

So, I present to you:

Unwilling cat!Shen Qingqiu and Very exited owner!Shen Yuan (feat. Panicking! Shang Qinghua because the Plot has gone off the rails and the System is having an... aneurysm?)

Edit: As of February 6th, this fic has a title:

"Dogs are dogs, but cats are people"

When Shen Yuan woke up (after he died) he did not expect to see himself in the body of a 12 years old child, all alone in the middle of nowhere. After a very much needed freak out given his circumstances, Shen Yuan did what he always did best: chose one direction and started walking in that direction in search of civilization. When he came across a village, it was not the way the people were dressed nor the way they spoke that surprised him; instead it was the name of the village. A name that he had only read once, in a specific stallion novel that he hated with a passion.

"Well," Shen Yuan thinks sarcastically, "this is fantastic, isn't it?" (At least he can be happy he was reborn as a non-essential character and not someone like the Scum Villain, right?)

With the amount of knowledge accumulated from the stallion novel, Shen Yuan managed to form a golden core in a couple of years and currently roams the lands as a rogue cultivator. He feels way healthier than in his previous life and prefers to stay out of the drama that is the main story line of "Proud Immortal Demon Way."" Why, you ask? Because he already died because he choked. All the deaths in PIDW are 100% worse and more painful. So, no, thank you. He is gonna avoid the Cang Qiong Sect (and all other sects) like the plague.

Two years after he transmigrated in this world, Shen Yuan finds a little white kitty with green eyes that hisses at him like the small little thing is ready to spew poison.

Shen Yuan thinks the little thing - it's a boy - is very much adorable.

Taking the little kitty in his hands, not minding how his claws are piercing through the skin of his palms, Shen Yuan looks at him with a big grin on his face. "Spicy little thing, aren't you?"

The kitten looks at him and lets out a very grumpy "Mrow" before bitting the finger that was massaging under the kitten's chin.

Seems Shen Yuan found himself a new travel companion.

----------------

Shen Qingqiu is having a bad day. Scratch that - his day is so awful, it is worthy of being put in his "Top Five Most Awful Days".

It started with that idiot Yue Qingyuan calling him "Xiao Jiu" - a name which he hates with his entire being - and telling him he is needed for a mission. Which, fine. It's not that bad.

But then the partner for this mission turned out to be none other than that Bai Zhan Brute of a Man, Liu Qingge. A man with whom he can never get along. But they have been through other missions together even if they have butted heads mid-way through the mission. So, again, nothing really new here.

What was new about his situation is that he is currently stuck as a four legged small animal. Like actually a small animal. And he has no sword anymore... or clothes. And he can't even feel his cultivation.

"Fantastic" he thinks sarcastically as he moves slowly through the crowd of people in search for that Bai Zhan Brute. (Liu Qingge has to be able to recognize him, right? Right?)

He never expected to be picked up by a child no older than that little beast of a desciple he has. He also never expected that, despite all the hissing, bitting, clawing and wiggling he used in order to escape from the kid's hold, the idiotic child (cause there is no way this kid has all mental faculties intact) would just laugh and seem... pleased?.

"This child, Shen Yuan, is weird." Shen Qingqiu concludes in his mind as he looks at the little idiot grinning despite Shen Qingqiu's fangs holding his finger hostage. "And this day is still awful."

(At least he won't starve tonight.)

------------------

Liu Qingge is not panicking. He really is not.

If that little spoiled young master of a scolar decided to up and leave mid-way through their mission, it's not his problem.

(Shen Qingqiu wouldn't leave during a mission however. That man is way too prideful for that. And he wouldn't leave his sword and clothes behind in the forest either.)

Liu Qingge checks the Warm Red Pavillion anyway; just to be sure that Shen Qingqiu isn't up to his nefarious deeds like before when he caught him sneaking out to drown himself in carnal pleasures.

(Shen Qingqiu is not there. Liu Qingge check the perimeter three times. Still no sign of that spoiled young master. He is getting worried.)

When Liu Qingge comes back to the inn they are staying at, Shen Qingqiu isn't there either. Nor is he there the next day or the day after that.

Liu Qingge is not panicking. (He is panicking)

He is not going to keep looking for that asshole. (He still checks the entire village for his fellow Peak Lord. There is no trace of him anywhere.)

A heavy sigh escapes from him as the Bai Zhan Peak Lord, the so called God of War, hides his face with the palms of his hands.

"Yue-zhangmen is going to kill me."

---------------

In the An Ding Peak Lord office, the current Peak Lord Shang Qinghua looks at the scattered papers on his desk with growing horror.

Not because there are a lot of papers for him to write or check.

Nor is it because some of them have splashes of ink on them which means he has to re-write them from scratch again.

The reason behind the horror in his eyes lies in the floating screen that glows red intermittently, as if it is a piece of wood in a see of fire. The words on the floating screen read as follows:

"SYSTEM ERROR! SYSTEM ERROR!

THE PLOT OF THE NOVEL "PROUD IMMORTAL DEMON WAY" HAS DIVERTED FROM ITS INTENTED COURSE.

OOC BEHAVIOUR DETECTED FROM SEVERAL CHARACTERS!"

Shang Qinghua's eyes are still wide with horror as he faintly wispers, more to himself than the System.

"What the fuck is going on here?"

--------

Luo Binghe doesn't know what to do. Liu-Shifu returned a month ago from a mission with his Shizun (his very mean Shizun; the Shizun that he still wants to be acknowledged by, be praised by) without well,... his Shizun.

Everything went downhill from there.

He, together with Ming Fan and Ning Yingying, are still taking part in the search parties for his Shizun. But the search still yields no result.

No one seems to have seen his Shizun at all. It's like the man was swallowed by the earth itself.

While searching around, Luo Binghe comes across a rogue cultivator by the name of Shen Yuan. He seems to be his age and is a very nice person. (Luo Binghe really likes this rogue cultivator. He is very kind to him and Luo Binghe can count the people that were nice to him in his life on one hand)

The only problem is that Shen Yuan's little white cat doesn't seem to like him - or anyone, besides maybe Shen Yuan - all that much.

Still maybe asking Shen Yuan to help them find Shizun is a good idea. (Plus he gets to spend more time with Shen Yuan too. That's a bonus.)

So what do you guys think?

Also here:

Cat!Shen Jiu towards everybody:

Cat!Shen Jiu waiting for his supposed fellow "Peak Lords" and "desciples" to realize that he is the cat (and they still don't):

Shen Jiu, throughout this whole fic: I am surrounded by idiots....

This idea was both fun to come up with and hilarious to boot too. I might actually take a shot at writing this, given that my brain doesn't make it an over 10 chapter long fic. I do have a question though: if you were to give this fic a title, what title it would be? (I need all the help to chose titles cause I am BAD at them)

Regardless, I hope you had fun reading this and that the rest of your day will nice as well (and good night to those that read this post just before bed).

I will see you guys tomorrow,

- TooManyPlotBunnies-Send Help

P.S.: This was low-key, the inspiration behind the idea of this fic

[ryin-silverfish]

I was always a little confused that some students made fun of the rival sect just because they had "monster" students. I never quite understood if it was because these students had committed crimes or bad acts but were still accepted as students, or if it was because they were cultivated Yaoguais? one of the immortals was an immortal crane, so why did they make fun? or were they just making fun of the appearance? or is it like a case of discrimination against yaoguais?

Honestly, I think it is a mix of both. On one hand, the Jie Sect did have some unsavory members like Lv Yue the plague god and Ma Yuan the man-eater, and when Patriach Tongtian and Yuanshi Tianzun were facing off before the Immortal Killing Formation, that was what Yuanshi Tianzun focused on: that his Jie Sect disciples were acting unruly and strong-arming people and holding onto grudges as a result of his indiscriminate admission (Cha. 77).

On the other hand, when their opponents mocked them, the admission of cultivated beasts did seem to be brought up:

First was the shit-talk Guangcheng Zi allegedly made, where he said that "Whether horned or furred, wet-born or egg-born, [they] all mingled as one crowd"(不分披毛带角之人，湿生卵化之辈，皆可同群共处).

Second, during the Ten Thousand Immortals Formation arc, after the three yaoguai disciples of the Jie Sect was subdued and became mounts of Wenshu, Puxian and Cihang(FSYY's Daoist-ized version of Bodhisattva Manjusri, Samantabhadra and Guanyin), Lao Zi ordered Wenshu to take the azure lion right in front of Patriarch Tongtian and was like "With such creatures under your sect, how could you still act so high-and-mighty? What a joke!" (Cha. 83)

So personally, I did think the Chan Sect was at least a little prejudiced against yaoguais.

As for the White Crane Boy: he was never explicitly stated to be a cultivated crane in the novel, unlike members of the Jie Sect who were yaoguais, though he did transform into a white crane to snatch Shen Gongbao's head away(Cha. 37).

Everything else after this is context and theories, so take it with a grain of salt.

If you read Gui Zhizhong's translation of FSYY, the introduction stated that the Chan-Jie conflict was supposed to mirror the historical conflict between Quanzhen and Zhengyi Sects in the Ming dynasty, a theory that some scholars, like Liu Cunren, subscribed to.

However, I do not subscribe to that theory personally. Rather, my take is a blend of Li Yihui's hypothesis about the origin of the names "Chan" and "Jie"(《封神演义》考论), and Meulenbeld's book, "Demonic Warfare: Daoism, Territorial Networks, and the History of a Ming Novel".

Basically, the former said that Chan came from 阐扬正教("Promote the True/Righteous Religion"), and Jie, 海外有截, a line from the Book of Poems(诗经) that was taken literally as "there was a Jie Sect overseas".

The latter pointed out the similarity between FSYY's overall narrative of "deification through death" and the Daoist ritual of sublimation + the integration of local deities into organized Daoism; specifically, "sublimation" is meant to cleanse and transform orphaned and vengeful spirits, and oftentimes, the Thunder Ritualist school would subdue local spirits of folk worship——yaoguais, ghosts, etc. and make them into subordinates.

So what does all this mean? Well, through this lens, the Chan Sect is less a mirror of any particular sects, and more an idea of "orthodox/proper Daoism", while the Jie represents "unorthodox/heretical Daoism": the incredibly diverse Chinese folk religions where the strange, the demonic and the marginal were often venerated alongside popular mainstream gods.

As such, the Chan Sect's distaste for the Jie Sect's indiscriminate admission of disciples might be a reflection of how organized Daoist sects + state religion saw folk beliefs. Yet, at the same time, the solution wasn't to wipe them out(you can't), but to subdue, transform, and integrate local gods into their temple networks and pantheons.

Thus, almost everyone who died in the War of Investiture got deified regardless of sect allegiance or species(at least in the version I'm reading, the list of names in Cha.99 differ depending on editions), and Patriarch Tongtian, despite his multiple defeat, wasn't punished by his and Yuanshi Tianzun's mutual master, Hongjun.