#some plot and pain!!

[chokedraven]

So, in short - I was brushing my teeth when it occurred to me (if you think about it like that, for some reason all good ideas come to me when I brush my teeth) but anyway

B lives alone in his house, he has a boring life and is lonely.

One evening he is sitting in a chair in his room and reading a book when he hears a hoarse whisper, barely audible: "Hey?"

Of course, he gets scared, turns his head, trying to find the source of the sound, when he sees two completely white eyes staring at him from the wall, glued to the faded shape of a human silhouette on the wall. Like a pale shadow.

"Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to scare you," — it mutters.

B, of course, thinks he's going crazy and ignores the shadow as he goes to bed (yes, I think that's reasonable, leave me alone)

The next day, however, the shadow does not go away, on the contrary, it takes on a more intense dark appearance, and resumes timid attempts to talk to B.

B finally gives in and talks to it.

It turns out that the shadow was once a person, a human, A, and then was imprisoned in the shadow in this very apartment (I’ll think of this better later), and so - since then he has been wandering here in the form of a shadow, lonely and intimidated, until B appears.

B sympathizes with the shadow, and even tries to somehow console it, touching the dark form, until... lo and behold! The shadow crawls right out of the wall, taking the form of a guy!

A is too weak, which is clear, since he was imprisoned in his own shadow for a long time, literally. He is thin and lethargic. But, nevertheless, under the good supervision of B, he becomes stronger every day, gaining the strength to live a normal life. His demons still haunt him, but he's ready to move on.

Oh, and at a time when the weight of life and his painful anxieties becomes greater and greater, and B is not around to console him, A again turns into a faded shadow, after which he again needs to be taken out of this state, as a result of which he becomes even more weaker.

So B finds a roommate he never knew he dreamed of, and A a ​​friend he never had.

You know what, I really love this plot. I will write this, get ready. And I will draw it too. Aeh.

[bonefall]

Hey, what makes a character a 'plot device but not a character'? And how do you not do that? I'm trying to do it on purpose but also I need to still make them interesting because it's on purpose, yknow?

A good skill to pick up is to learn to criticise criticism itself. A "plot device" is simply a thing that moves the plot along, it's a neutral literary analysis term! Usually, when people are angry that "a character has been used as a plot device," it doesn't mean they hate plot devices. It means they're gesturing at something deeper.

Runningwind and Bumble are equally plot devices in their deaths. They are both killed by the antagonist to escalate political tension. Runningwind is rarely "accused" of just being a plot device, and yet, we're talking about Bumble for the same thing.

So, why?

Well, Runningwind is just a background character, but in life, he was a part of the community. He was characterized as impatient but responsible. Yet, he wasn't SO important that he died with a bunch of unresolved plot threads.

He is mostly an extension of the entity of ThunderClan. His killing by Tigerstar, and the fear and paranoia that settles on the group after this, feel like a progression of the story insteas of something forced.

Bumble, on the other hand...

Is hated immediately by Gray Wing, when she's established as Turtle Tail's friend. Bumble's abuse at Tom the Wifebeater's hands invites even MORE investment. The rejection is shocking and upsetting. There's a story there about our main characters being imperfect; jealous, bigoted, and judgemental.

But, she is simply killed off. Everything they set up for this character is gone with little personalized fanfare. It's not a tragedy with a lesson about cruelty, or something anyone regrets.

It's just... plot. Gray Wing whinging that no one will like his shitty brother now that his body count is 2.

More than that, in the discussion of women in particular, "Fridging" was coined to give a name to the way women characters often don't get their stories told at all. There is a CULTURAL trend of female characters facing disproportionate violence, for the sake of advancing male plots.

Bumble has a lot going for her. Petal had a lot going for her. Turtle Tail had a lot going for her. Bright Stream had a lot going for her. When they died, they took their potential with them.

It's not always wrong to kill off a character of high potential, mind you. In Gurren Lagann, Kamina's death is sudden and shocking, leaving a massive hole in the hearts of the cast that never heals. Grappling with that loss, but also letting his memory fuel them, is a major theme of that story.

All that to say... there's no formula for avoiding it. You've gotta identify what the deeper issue is, in your specific narrative.

I can't say for certain what that will look like for your story, but here's some things I keep in mind;

When you make characters who exist to die, make sure they're people before you axe them.

Ask yourself; what about them does the cast miss?

If they just miss them because they were (pre-existing relationship), go back to the drawing board.

Fluttering Bird as an example. Who was she? Dead sister. Why do they miss her? Dead sister. No traits until after her death.

Runningwind was short-tempered and helpful. Kamina was a valuable leader who made people believe in a brighter future. Swiftpaw was fiesty and desperate to prove himself. The better characterized, the more profound the loss usually is.

If this is a female character who is dying just to serve the plot, be aware of cultural bias and tropes. How is the gender ratio looking in your cast? Is this happening disproportionately with your girls?

Note how Quiet Rain's litter had both a boy and a girl, but the girl was chosen to be "weaker" and wither away.

And how most of the time in DOTC, whenever a man had to be upset, a girl would get killed for it.

If you ever feel like the character on the chopping block is NOT a full character, ask yourself why it needs to be a character at all. You don't need to spend narrative time building out someone when a literal object of high value might suffice.

"My sister died when I swore to protect her and I can't face my family" = Old. Tired. Ive seen this.

"I lost my heirloom sword when I swore to protect it and I can't face my family." = Fascinating. Why was the sword so valuable? Will they really not take you back? How did you lose it?

When you do kill off "high value" characters, try to make sure you're not leaving too many plot threads hanging. Or at least make a point of how they will never get closure.

[cringefail-clown]

you werent supposted to be here

[sukibenders]

Not people talking bad about my girl Helaena just to support Aemond. Like, she had a right to ask him if what he did was worth it because, even if Aegon is atrocious, Aemond is the reason that her son was killed in front of her, the reason that she had to choose which of her children dies, and is the reason why she has to live with that now. While other characters played a part in that, without Aemond killing Luke, Jaehaerys would probably still be there or wouldn't have died in such a cruel way. B&C are sent there to kill Aemond, and when they can't find him they follow through with their next order of "a son for a son". And while Aemond may be smarter and more strategic (and not a disgusting man like Aegon) as prince regent, he is still, as Alicent called out, volatile and brewing with unchecked anger. I wouldn't feel safe having him on the throne just as much as Aegon, but because he served face and is the lesser evil I'm supposed to be okay with it? No, Helaena can question this man as much as she likes, for the rest of her life given what she has to go through. (Also, she literally just asked him a valuable question that deeply needs to be considered, so why are people mad at her?)

[benevolenterrancy]

Can I ask what was your first impression of TGCF and if it turned out wrong or right?

My first impression of TGCF was "this goof continuously ascends to -- and gets kicked out of -- heaven, this is going to be clown town isn't it?"

And honestly I stand by that one, I think I was completely correct**

(**barring the fact that this goof will then go on to experience ever conceivable horror known to man but honestly I mostly expected it after MDZS)

[good-soupmens]

Ik the good omens fandom has different takes on God as a character, but I like the idea that she DOES have an ineffable plan, and Heaven is doing their absolute worst job carrying it out.

Most angels never talk to God, and they're usually selfish, they don't do the right thing (only what they're told), and it's even possible they're working under a corrupt power (like the Metatron). I like that theory because Metatron IS the barrier between God and the angels. He could easily lie to them and change plans, and we the audience know that "friendly old man metatron" swindling Aziraphale is not what he seems.

But from the beginning, we see inconsistency. Crowley falls from heaven after asking questions/hanging out with the wrong group while Aziraphale is allowed to lie about the flaming sword and change Heaven's plans. God can see how much he cares about humans and the earth by his actions (Crowley being the same), which makes me think that him getting away with it is intentional, not inconsistent or neglectful. ESPECIALLY if Aziraphale and Crowley run heaven and hell respectively in season 3. They have the power to change things, just like they stopped the world from ending the first time. I think Crowley and Aziraphale ARE the ineffable plan.

Their love could bridge the gap between opposing forces in a way that it couldn't if they were both angels. After all, both heaven and hell think they're doing the better thing while they're both not. Crowley and Aziraphale are the best of both sides.

If bringing them together was God's plan, it'd be a powerful story for queer Christians!! A lot of us have been hurt by the church, but we hold on to God's love, which doesn't fail us. We stay in a religion with a history of fighting queerness not because we're all brainwashed, but because we wholeheartedly believe in a God that loves us. Sometimes I see good omens' heaven as an analogy for toxic churches, and I'd love nothing more than for Aziraphale to realize heaven is working against God. Not to mention God using a gay couple to save the world/save heaven from corruption?? I'd kill for that storyline

Secondly, Aziraphale's devotion wouldn't have been for nothing. If God was awful the whole time, it defeats the times he and Crowley reached out, and the moment in the GOs1 finale where Crowley says, "what if you're going AGAINST God's ineffable plan?" to Gabriel and Beelzebub. (It'd almost defeat the purpose of her being the quirky narrator following their story, too.)

Even Crowley, never fooled by "heaven is all good" calls for God in his time of need ("God listening? Show me an ineffable plan.") (Possibly when he reaches to the sky in order to stop time) (Calling for God before Satan in the burning bookshop) (Looking up and muttering "God" after realizing Aziraphale is going to leave him in s2)

Lastly, after the trauma that both Crowley and Aziraphale went through, with Crowley falling and Aziraphale coming to terms with heaven's corruption (and both being mistreated by their side) it'd be nice to have been for a reason. They have every right to grieve and be angry for all that they went through, and the centuries that they weren't supposed to love each other, but I believe the series will end on a positive, sweet note, like the rainbow after a storm.

Like Job, they're losing almost everything (their relationship as it was, the bookshop, and the life they carved out), but they have each other. I think they'll lose everything to save EVERYONE, and in the end, the reward will top the pain. No holding back, no forces hunting them down, just them together after a PAINFULLY long time with everything they'd wanted.

We know that God doesn't get around to answering many questions, but her speech to Job was in part to say "trust me"

She laid the foundations of the earth. She made every living thing. Job couldn't see past the destruction of his life, but she has a plan. Job is a valuable human being, but he doesn't have the power and knowledge of God. God will share her plan when he can make a whale. Otherwise, he can trust that "Most things are fine in the end"

*Aziraphale voice* That's ineffable!

[tigerbears]

Homestuck Spoilers Out of Context.

[fisheito]

i can't look at him i can't look at him i can't look at him i won't i can't im not allowed to why is he I CANNOT

[blood-ology]

Screaming and biting things thinking about interview with the vampire season 2

[spghtrbry]

so i’ve been. THINKING lately.

you can find many similarities in both stories but there are also huge differences…

in cain and abel’s story cain murders his younger brother because of his jealousy and because god preferred abel over him, which is obviously similar to how chuck’s pride made him envious of jimmy because he’s more likeable and made their mom laugh etcetera etcetera..but i’d say abel was a pure guy, he didn’t do anything bad, he was like. basically the purest human being at that time (well it’s not really difficult to be the best person when there’s like 4 people in the whole world and two of them literally got kicked out of heaven but anyway). and cain murdered him. which is clearly not the case with jimmy and chuck because obviously in the legal point of view chuck is a better person than jimmy …

and we’ve got esau and jacob, which is i think a really underrated story. i mean i love cain and abel but i think people often forget about those two. esau, (technically) an older brother, always gets tricked by jacob. jacob buys his birthright and steals his father’s blessing that was meant for esau. and esau rages at him because. i mean. that’s not a nice thing to do. but in the end jacob becomes one of the Main Characters in the genesis… personally i think this story is more… idk, specific? there’s just something about the younger brother constantly tricking the older to get what he wants, even though the reasons not always are completely selfish. BUT! in the end esau and jacob made peace which is (spoiler alert😨) not the case with chuck and jimmy ………..and also jacob didn’t really have a redemption arc and esau just. idk. moved on with his life. got a family and all that. so he basically became a normie. but yeah ANYWAYS!

so yeah. i’d really love to hear ur thoughts and opinions on this one because i am a little bit insane about all this stuff as you probably noticed

(also if i messed something up or if im wrong anywhere please lmk lol it’s been a while since ive read the old testament…….)

[yannig]

Would you look at that Huaien: long term consequences of your bullshit that you're not gonna be able to ignore! Who could have foreseen this!

[fyeahvarchie]

CAMILA MENDES as VERONICA LODGE  ↳ 6x05 - The Jughead Paradox

[vvienne]

I literally woke up in the middle of the night like God will dark rise is so fucking screwed. The line that’s like. “Everyone wanted to kill the Dark King.” What’s the part where he looks at Violet helplessly, haunted, almost pleading for mercy? But of course he reveals nothing of substance to anyone. Elizabeth is too young to understand but the reader knows what “Her relationship with that boy was…unnatural” can mean. Tying him to bedposts? Failing to strangle him? What else? Never not even once seeing beyond a mythological identity Will himself didn’t know he had? What did he think was the reason? That he was just intrinsically hateful? Of course he says nothing. Of course Violet can’t trust him- he’s given her nothing as painfully real as what she’s given him. So he gives her the sword hoping at least he can die at the hands of someone he loved, but even that doesn’t work out - she gives the sword to a Visander still furious at SARCEAN. The pattern continues; no one looks at Will, who vomits when he realizes what’s happened to James, Will who is much of a liar and killer and sneak as Elizabeth accuses but nonetheless wants to be different. Even when he doesn’t remember his own past. There’s no way out for him that doesn’t hurt. Hope this obsession passes soon given the one and a half years of waiting required for book 3

[heyclickadee]

So, I’ve been trying to square the idea that The Bad Batch is from Omega’s perspective with the fact that there are a lot of things we, the audience, see happening, but are never addressed, because they’re things with which Omega never interacts. And of course it’s not literally from Omega’s perspective. There are sequences and two entire episodes she isn’t there there to see. Something that could be interesting, though, is if this show is from Omega’s perspective in the sense that things can happen without Omega, but they’re never pulled together or unpacked until it’s time for her to do so.

So, for example: We get a scene in “Faster” between Millegi and Cid in which Millegi calls Cid on her old habits of throwing people under the bus (“Hustlers like us never change.”) Cid is actually offended by this and replies with, “I might surprise you.”

There are two important things about this moment. One, we’re given a little bit of insight into Cid and the fact that she seems to want to have changed—she doesn’t want to be the person who stabs people in the back. Two, this moment is here entirely for the benefit of the audience. None of our main characters are here to witness this, so it’s not something that leads them to accept the idea that she’s changed only to be shocked when she betrays them later on. The thing they hear from Millegi is, “Watch your backs.” None of them was ever given a reason to doubt that—not even Omega, who seems to like Cid well enough and will go to bat for her, but still knows she’s not that trustworthy.

But we, the audience, are given a reason to doubt that Cid will betray them. A small reason, in that scene between her and Millegi, but a reason still. What plays out, however, is what everyone expected; Cid betrays the batch at the worst possible moment, surprising absolutely no one. Millegi’s, “Watch your backs,” plays, even though it’s not something we needed to hint that Cid would sell them out; Cid’s, “I might surprise you,” the hint that’s there just for the audience, never comes full circle.

Except…it’s not just empty, either. We do get a few hints that Cid doesn’t really want to betray the batch, that she may have been trying to get them to stay away, and several fairly big indications that she hates herself for what she’s done while the betrayal is playing out. (She looks less than proud, let’s say, when she takes the money from Hemlock, and blurting out a half-confession, half-justification to Wrecker in the first place.) So it is actually consistent in that, as suggested in her scene with Millegi, she’s unhappy being the person who stabs people in the back; but because we follow up on the other foreshadowing, and because Omega doesn’t see Cid again by the end of the non-epilogue portion of the show (she could have seen Cid in the gap; anything could happen in the gap), we never get a moment where Cid surprises us by explicitly showing that she’s changed. It’s not something that gets dropped or changed as much as it’s something that stays consistent, but doesn’t come full circle.

And there’s a lot in The Bad Batch that’s like this. We do, for example, see moments showing that Hunter, despite being a good man trying his best, is flawed and practically kneecaps himself with indecision and crippling self-doubt. Because of what Omega’s relationship with Hunter is, however, we never quite get around to unpacking that. She sees Hunter the way a lot of younger kids see their parents, so his flaws remain present rather than explored. that and instead unpack his relationship with her. Crosshair, despite his incredible redemption arc, ends the series with a lingering sense of guilt and a feeling that he deserves to die; but because of how Omega sees Crosshair—as someone who has made mistakes but who is, at the end of the day, her beloved little brother—we never quite unpack the source of his guilt or his turn from being implicitly to explicitly suicidal. We see clues and signs that Tech might have survived the fall—including one metatextually from Omega herself—but because all these clues are directed at the audience and go unseen by most of the cast, especially Omega (who doesn’t know she’s in a story where literary devices exist), we don’t ever deal with them. We see the build up with Rex, the senate, and something that looks like it’s leading to a clone rebellion, but we only really deal with the implications in moments that directly impact Omega’s story, like Echo leaving. And so on and so on—we could pick this apart for ages.

Whether or not this is a criticism, though, depends entirely on the framework. For example: If The Bad Batch as is really is the whole story and there’s nothing else, and never was anything else, then, yeah, it’s a disaster. It’s not just tripping on the finish line, it’s losing the race because you kept turning down dead end streets and having to climb over buildings to get back on the racetrack.

If, however, there does end up being more and we’re really at the end of part one of however many parts there are, what we’re looking at was never thought of as an ending, and what we’re getting is going to come with a bit of a POV shift away from Omega (not that she won’t appear at all, but that she won’t be the POV character), then it could all end up being a phenomenal piece of storytelling in the long run. I mean—I’m actually annoyed at how well it could work if they actually pulled something like that off. There’s still criticism to be had, but my criticism would be more focused on terrible audience management driven by an obsession with spoilers, the social media/marketing around the show being what it was, and a failure to really nail the transition with an episode that really seems to have been written more as a season finale (we didn’t get a long finale, I’m convinced we just got episodes 15 and 16 smushed together, and “The Cavalry Has Arrived” was just the title of the episode 16 that got applied to both), but had to also function as a series finale without being allowed to resolve anything but the Hunter-Omega arc. Basically, fumbling the transition between chapters somewhat rather than fumbling everything.

And the second one is what I lean towards, partly because it is weirdly consistent, and partly because despite the many (many) characters, plots, and subplots being left unresolved, none of it really has the hallmarks of something that ran out of either time or budget (at least, I don’t think so, now that I’ve been unable to stop thinking about it for two months). Things that run out of time usually cram all the resolution that they can into as little time as possible, and there were ways to resolve everything in the “terrible but at least still resolved” fashion by adding a couple of lines or even a voice over from Omega in the silent parts of the epilogue (cheapest, fastest solution and it could have done late, after everything else was locked down, any time before the episode was uploaded). Things that run out of budget usually cut anything that’s expensive—like, for example, a ten minute multi-character fight scene with particle effects that doesn’t have a plot reason to even be there unless we’re not actually done with the CX plot yet. Or rain. Or an outdoor set that only appears in one episode for three minutes.

TL; DR: I actually think there’s something interesting going on with the storytelling here if we’re not actually done with the story yet, but also it would be really nice to know for sure if there’s anything more coming because it’s either amazing or terrible and there’s nothing in between.

[anistarrose]

After rewatching the Thanks For Watching trilogy, I actually have to double down on my controversial opinion: Hunter never having to directly face off against Belos again after Thanks to Them is actually super satisfying and cathartic in an understated, underrated way. He said everything he needed to say after the worst thing that Belos ever did to him, and from then on, he didn't know it yet but he was free. I'm so happy for him.

[shalomniscient]

head in hands