#some people tend to think in fact it gets worse in the trauma sense he's just dealing with it in a different way

[bravevolunteer]

michael's complexities are so intriguing and one of the many reasons i love him but oh god does it kill me as a chronic overexplainer

[heretherebedork]

This entire scene is agony because half of it is about the truth (Do Han being gay) and half of it is a lie (Do Han 'tricking' A Jeong into marrying him) and the rest is about Ji Han's own pain that he's never faced or expressed because his coping skills suck.

Ji Han knows Do Han is gay now but he still doesn't know that A Jeong knows he's gay and so he's taking out this anger on Do Han about A Jeong's love not knowing it's entirely fake and that's the hardest part about this fight scene because the fight isn't about what it's about, it's about something that isn't actually happening but appears to be happening.

See, the problem with this fight and the framing of it is that Ji Han is mostly angry because he thinks Do Han is lying to A Jeong who loves him. That's why he's so pissed and why Do Han can be framed as the villain in this moment.

Because this is about Ji Han and A Jeong.

But the truth is that Do Han isn't doing any of the things Ji Han accuses him of in most of the argument besides being the closet which isn't what Ji Han is truly angry about to an extent.

I deeply appreciate that Do Han got to punch first despite his own guilt and issues because this man has spent most of his life hiding himself even from the brother he loves and now, the first time anyone in his life finds out he's gay, he gets called the Worst Person Imaginable. Sigh.

Do Han was also young when their mother died so I'm not sure what he was going to tell Ji Han about where he was living or where Ji Han was living. I don't think Do Han had any control over that.

I admit, I bet he ran to New York without telling anyone. I accept that. Do Han is absolutely a coward when it comes to telling people things he expects to be judged for and so he does tend to just... not tell them. We've seen that a lot in the show. Do Han's fear of what other people will think is real.

And this where the knowledge of the viewer informs us of how wrong Ji Han is in his assumptions but also allows it to make sense that Ji Han would think the worst of that and the worst of everything in this moment.

But, honestly, a lot of this is Ji Han putting his own trauma out in the air. He's got so many issues and he's never faced a single one and Do Han's own secrets have left this space between them that Ji Han tried to fill with pushing him to gain power and trying to find reason to involve Do Han more because he never knew why Do Han was distant... and now that he knows he's gonna go ahead and assume the worst because that's all he's got.

Poor Do Han lived in a minefield that Ji Han will never understand and will never try to understand because Do Han's minefield is something so specific and so painful and he had to leave behind so, so much. And he didn't choose that, unlike Ji Han choosing to go for the power and the family connections.

(Also, I need a scene at some point where Do Han tells Ji Han their mother's death isn't his fault just because I don't think Do Han ever believed it was his fault.)

And this is where the whole thing comes back to Ji Han's love for A Jeong and the fact that the viewer knows that A Jeong knows but Ji Han doesn't and that he won't because A Jeong isn't going to out Do Han and neither is Ji Han and so this misunderstanding is going to continue and get worse when Ji Han and A Jeong's romance becomes more public and Do Han is forced to face the press, his own fears and their actual romance and the fact that he does love them both.

Honestly, Ji Han, you fell in love with A Jeong before you knew any of this so maybe take a look in the mirror.

Oh the heartbreak and the fear and the pain and the way Do Han only knows part of the truth as well and this is just gonna hurt. How does he handle this? How does anyone? And then the fall out of everything, the fact that Ji Han and A Jeong are starting a romance while he's still supposed to be marrying her and if he doesn't marry her will end with another woman his grandfather chooses and forced to either lie or out himself?

All the anxiety he had finally escaped in his contract with A Jeong has come back with a vengeance.

Bonus gif: Do Han's collapse broke my heart.

[clownsnake]

guys. Astarion wasn’t literally considered a child when he was 30. Among elves he was clearly seen as Of Age to do adult things like drink and live independently and fuck and pay taxes. its just that elves have a stupid extra concept of adulthood that doesn’t MEAN adulthood in a literal sense. has nothing to do with physical or brain development. not even necessarily emotional development, but it kind of is depending on how u interpret it, but I’m getting ahead of myself.

basically elves in the forgotten realms trance instead of sleep (we know this) and until around age 110, during their trances they “dream” of their past lives (I’ve only seen a few ppl who know this, but idk if they also knew it stops at a certain age). They then stop dreaming of their past lives naturally, and it’s generally considered kinda traumatic to go through bc well. you’re losing what has been a fundamental part of yourself for so long.

I interpret that as being like a “shared trauma maturation stage” where instead of elves brains literally becoming more adult, losing the guidance of their past lives feels like more of a final step towards independence to them. and adulthood is just the closest social experience to this stage of being “truly on your own”

around 30-40 they get a “first reflection”, which is when their dreams start having experiences from their current life. (Makes sense for Astarion having a dream about Cazador in origin runs that prompts the biting scene) And then the loss of past life memories at 100-110 is called the drawing of the veil.

Tl;dr Astarion was a young adult by elf standards stop infantilizing him PLEASE

Getting into headcanon land now, feel free to draw your own conclusions from here.

i imagine older elves kind of have a sense of being more “mature” than under-110 elves in the way tht people comparing their trauma tend to do. Like “u think ur so smart and worldly but you haven’t even been through half the shit I’ve been through.” PATRONIZING that’s the word I’m looking for, it’s patronizing. And since every elf goes through this, they just kind of assume that yeah, going through this trauma/emotional loss IS a big step towards being a full adult. so it’s like if the concept of adult had a Pokémon evolution that didn’t involve getting wrinkly and hair loss and going through menopause or erectyle dysfunction. Adult 1.5 steam update.

I have no clue if Astarion would have the drawing of the veil as an undead elf. The fact that he even has dreams shows that being revived as a vampire keeps certain bodily functions running, mainly anything relating to the brain and consciousness, but idk if it would keep him physically at 30 or let his brain change.

Although hold on, in the epilogue where you’re a mind flayer and considering eating Astarions brain, you get narration that’s like “ooohh his brain part that handles senses must be sooo wrinkly” which would only be caused by the shit he went through post-vampirification. Meaning his brain Would be able to change and “mature”. But that’s also just an assumption that mindflayer!tav/durge is making.

k I looked it up. The exact quote is “Astarion’s sweet brain may be a bit less wrinkled than the rest, but you hunger for its teasing cells. His parietal lobe - which controls his sense of touch - will be an aphrodisiac in your maw.” Hilarious, he canonically gets called smooth brain. Anyway if u kill him I don’t think you get to eat his brain, withers just banishes you asap lmao. So we don’t actually know if his parietal lobe changed over his un-life! I’d wager it did though, based on his “don’t touch me” selection line (and probably some other lines hinting towards over-sensitivity tht im forgetting). And change caused by external trauma vs change caused by aging is different anyway.

no conclusion wrt to if he’d reach the drawing of the veil or not. Does it even matter? He’s still the same adult man, who’s gone through far worse hardships than losing memories of his past lives. If he lost his past life dreams too, well then I don’t think that’d make much of a difference for him.

[eyeballsoup7310]

I find it very interesting that people despise Vanessa for threatening Mike but I’ve not even seen a single person mention that Mike beat a man to filth in a mall fountain in front of the guys son.

Not to say mikes an inherently bad person for that, he has trauma and he reacted to something that triggered it— it’s just kind of telling that the entire fandom not only immediately forgave, but also never actually considered criticizing him for violently attacking a man in the first place, but a lot of people refuse to even imagine liking a woman because she was kind of mean to their favorite sad little blorbo due to her own trauma flaring up.

Edit cuz I thought about it again: obviously the dynamic is a little different in each situation. While both Vanessa and Mike were employed in positions of physical power at the time of their fuckups, Vanessa was specifically using her job as a threat whereas Mike didn’t even think about using his power as a guard. They both did something extremely shitty and rash, but if Vanessa weren’t an officer I don’t think people would care as much. Mike did something more comparable to, like, “getting into a drunken fistfight at dennys.”

On the flip side, threatening a man who’s Going Through It is super shitty and I don’t wanna dismiss that, but Mike still physically assaulted a man, and it’s weird to me that the fandom seems to have just forgotten. They’re fictional characters so I think trying to hold them to the exact same standards as real people is a bit weird to me (they’re meant to convey a story, not be a paragon of morality, unless of course the story they’re conveying is about morality but I’ll leave that conversation to people who have more than two braincells) but if we’re gonna criticize Vanessa I feel like we should also criticize Mike a little too

(I will still say, I don’t think Vanessa ever had any intent of trying to even legally challenge him ((i.e. arrest him or charge him or something)) and if she actually wanted to scare Mike she could’ve threatened to take Abby away, something that she previously refused to do in the “dumping shit in the river” scene. Also a stupid move, please don’t throw pills in the river, but it was the year 2000 and she was raised by William Goddamn Afton it makes sense she’s a bit of a dumbass sometimes)

Ultimately I don’t hold it against anyone if they dislike Vanessa because of this scene (or if they dislike Vanessa, especially for being a cop, in general), I guess I’m more so hung up about the fact that if she were a man, less people would hate her. Criticism of her as an officer is fine, we should be shitting on cops, some of it just feels like an excuse to be borderline misogynistic. I dunno, i tend to focus on stupid details. fnaf is a really weird series and an even weirder fandom. can everyone stop writing cops as protagonists please

Edit 2: actually thinking about it more and I just feel. Gross. Defending a character who’s a cop. It’s almost worse that it’s not even relevant to the story, for all the importance it has, she could easily be a janitor with a knife or something and absolutely nothing would change. Eugh. Curse of being written by scott cawthon, I guess. Anyways. Sorry. I think the part of my brain saw a pathetic wet cat of a character who’s a woman this time and went stupid mode

(If anyone has any recommendations for characters with a similar vibe to Vanessa that ARENT part of an extremely shitty job please uh. Comment them)

[thelikesoffinn]

hello - hope you're doing great! I love your analysis, and I wanted to ask about something I've been thinking fanfic wise but also applicable to real life (I think).

So Astarion gets paired a lot with Tavs who also have tragic past experiences (hard to be at his level of tragedy, but some get close). Which is all well and good, cause I see how writing these characters and reading about them is cathartic to many, but I also see plot-wise, it makes it "easier" for him to connect with Tav in a way, kindred souls and all that.

My Tav's background is one of someone who either had a fairly good and regular life, and, if trauma occured, it's been healthily overcome. So at the beginning of the BG3 story she's actually at the end of her own initial "character" arc.

Now my issue is, can Astarion connect with someone who has no idea at all of what he went through? My idea is that's he'd infantilize her, or openly antagonise her (in his charming way) because she's got no right to understand (especially with how he thinks it's fine to be racist and hurt the weak in the first act).

And she'd be understanding and wanting to help and all, but how can people with no/little traumatic experiences connect with those who went through hell, even with the best intentions? It's a dynamic I'd like to explore, because I've seen it played in real life a few times.

Sorry for the poem!

Hello, flower! Thank you so much, I'm glad that you enjoyed the analysis ❤️

As for your question: Eh, I do see why that dynamic is a rather difficult one. People who've survived through a lot of traumata tend to be somewhat hesitant and guarded in front of those who had normal lives at the best of times, and we all know that Astarion rarely has a "best of times", especially early in the game.

Infantilising them is something I definitely see with him. He's the type to do that with anyone anyway, but especially so with those he considers "sheltered". And sheltered is likely something he inevitably will consider Tav, as that is often the case with those who experienced trauma.

Trauma tends to age and harden you, in a way, so oftentimes people who simply grew up normally, with normal ups and downs, are viewed as "sheltered" or "spoiled" by those who didn't, even if that wasn't necessarily the case. That label isn't used or assigned maliciously, and it's simply based on the fact that other people's "normal" seems like the very best to someone who had it worse.

I can also see a huge amount of antagonism, yes, but how it shows will depend on when your story is set.

Is it while he's still dependent on Tav? Then I think he'd try to refrain from being more antagonistic towards them than necessary, since he needs to stay on their good side. So, he'd likely stick with his base-line arseholeishness, if a bit more intense at times. You know, in a sense that you side eye him and wonder if he just actually insulted you or if he's still joking around.

But if he's not dependent on them? Oh boy. Yeah, very likely that he'd be extremely mean and Tav would definitely 100% know that he means everything he says, even when it's uttered with a smile. Think how he talks to the Gur hunter in act 1 because let's be honest…that was far from subtle.

Astarion as a whole doesn't take kindly to anyone prodding his weak spots, albeit he mellows a bit towards Tav over the course of the story, and if would be even worse with "sheltered" Tav. He would likely flip his shit really hard and become extremely cruel with them, staying on their good side be damned because how dare they prod where they have no business being?

It's something I've seen at work before, and let me tell you: It's never a pretty sight. Many people who experienced trauma usually don't want to hurt others - quite the contrary, a lot of them would rather sacrifice themselves before watching anyone else get hurt like they were - but that doesn't mean they're not good at it. Precisely because they're often so hypervigilant, they have a talent in picking out your weak spots and if you test them enough, oh boy. They'll hit them with such aim and grace, you'll find yourself reeling. And that's the super sweet and kind clients, not the Astarions.

Here it's important to mention that the things people say in those situations are rarely what they really believe. It's mostly is just a well aimed assassination of your soft spots to get you to back off and leave them be.

So "sheltered" Tav will have to be extremely careful regarding any sore spots if they don't want to be hit by the full force of protective-malice.

Does that mean Astarion and your Tav won't be able to bond? Aabsolutely not, but it will be a tad bit difficult because he'll likely take a lot longer to open up and their bond will have to be built entirely from scratch. The shared understanding of their trauma can’t function as a temporary foundation – temporary because a bond entirely based on [shared] trauma will eventually become instable, if not fortified by other things – so they’ll have to put in a lot of work to even get to having a solid foundation to build on.

I'll give you a bit of a general rundown on how I was taught to tackle clients like that, maybe any of that will be helpful for you!

So, firstly: "Sheltered" Tav will need to be careful and understanding and they'll have to be able to take a blow and live with it if they accidentally step to close too early.

Important to note: They'll have to be able to take a blow but they can't be too lenient either.

Astarion seems like a person who's attached to 'respect'. Not in the 'respect your elders' way, but in the sense that he treats those he respects a lot better than those he doesn't. It's the nobility’s definition of respect - some "deserve" it and some don't and who is who is entirely based on personal understanding - so it's very in line with his background.

So, while your Tav will need to be able to take a hit, they'll need to know when to call him out on his bullshit. If you let Astarion walk all over you, he will eventually lose all respect and then this is a lost cause. Don't let him push you around.

If he's being too cruel, don't be cruel back, but definitely call him out on it and let him know that he can always ask you to stop prodding but you will not stand around and let him insult you.

Be understanding, but don't be a doormat.

Then, in order to get someone to open up, you'll have to have a lot of patience. Don't demand anything, don't force anything. Every question you ask has to be careful and phrased in a way that won't corner them, which can be really difficult in casual conversation. So, mishaps can and will likely happen, which is great material for a story anyway, so that's great! (Not so great at work though, haha.)

In case of "sheltered" Tav, it's probably best if they wait for him to come to them. Listen when he rants, listen to the tiny things he mentions and if you ask questions, make sure they directly relate to what he's told you just then.

So, if he talks about Cazador essentially making him choose between eating putrid rats or getting beaten, a question like: "Did he do that a lot?" or "Was it always those two options?" could potentially be alright because the red string is easily visible for both parties. Astarion can tell why you would ask something like that and he can follow your line of thought easily.

But a question like: "What else did he do to you?" or "Did he do other things as well?" would probably have his defences going up. It's too broad, too unspecific, and how is that any of your business anyway? What is this, an interrogation? An interview so that you can ghost write his sad memoirs? Back off.

While a question like: "How exactly did those dinners go?" or "Beaten? How?" is too specific. You're practically asking him to relive a painful moment in great detail for your own "enjoyment". Why else would you want to know? Why else would you ask how exactly he'd been hurt and humiliated, if not for that? Maybe you were planning to do the same to him. He won't let you. The past is the past. Let. It. Rest.

So, as you can tell, it's basically playing question-hot-foot!

But even if your Tav should cross the lines in that regard every once in a while - it happens, every question is a gamble - it'll eventually be fine. The closer they get, the easier it will be to ask questions, because he'll realise that he can actually trust them.

The one word I would really really avoid - and I cannot stress this enough - is 'understand'. God never use it. Tav, omit it from your vocabulary, you'll never "understand" anything ever again!

"I understand what you went though was horrible, but/and/however…" - No, you really do not. You can't understand, can't even imagine what he's faced over the years so never pretend that you do.

"I won't pretend to understand what you went through, but I want to/you can trust me/I can still listen." - Always said with kindness, but that one really is nothing but an empty platitude, at best. Hearing someone say that they don't understand you so directly is never really encouraging either.

"I just want to understand you." - Great, but you don't need to know the barest parts of a person's soul to be able to understand them. If you can't do it without that, maybe you shouldn't. And, all in all, this phrasing of the last one feels really iffy anyway, personally speaking, because it has a very manipulative edge to it. 'Hey I'm just overstepping your boundaries because I want to know you and understand you better. It's all for you..." and blegh. I hate that one, but that might be totally personal so please feel entirely free to ignore this paragraph.

Anyway, as you can see…never "understand", even if it’s just meant to encourage him. Just don't. I've seen clients who asked to be transferred to a different social worker or ended up leaving completely because someone used one of those lines, so I'd really strongly advise against them.

Instead, opt for things like "I'll listen to whatever you want to say." or "Can you explain it to me?" because that way you're not lying to his face and you're leaving everything up to him. He gets to decide where this conversation goes and, more importantly, how far it goes. Not an interview, not an interrogation, but a conversation that he controls.

And well then, flower, that’s it! Of course, there’s a lot more to it, but we’d still be here by the time Baldur’s Gate 8 is released if I went over every tiny thing, but I hope this was enough of an overview to help you build your story 😊 If you end up sharing it, don’t be shy to let me know, I’d be excited to check it out because, as you said, it’s a really interesting dynamic that isn’t explored as much as it should be. It’s a difficult dynamic, but it is so rewarding to write, read and experience. I wish you all the best ♥

[azure-firecracker]

ATLA Live Action Episode 5: Overall Thoughts.

I think this is an unpopular opinion but I didn’t mind that everyone got trapped in the Spirit World this time. This show tends to do better at crafting new material than adapting the original’s material, largely due to the fact that anything they do to that material will most likely pale in comparison. This isn’t to say I think they should rewrite the whole plot, but it’s cool when they get to explore a totally new thing. I like the spirit world as a setting, and I like the “creepy place that none of the characters know how to deal with” trope so that in itself did work for me. I saw people annoyed that Wan Shi Tong was there but I didn’t really care one way or another (with the exception of wondering what they’ll do if they get a Book 2 bc I love The Library). I also saw people annoyed that Aang knew who Hei Bai was right away, but to me that was required for this new plot so again, that didn’t bother me.

On Aang: this episode is where the show’s tone shift really got to me. I like that this show was more willing to delve into Aang’s trauma and how tragic his backstory was: while the original dealt with it well, it had limitations due to its being a kids show. This version had an opportunity to explore it more and I’m glad it did. But this episode was where I started to miss the levity of original Aang. It felt like every line was about his destiny, his guilt, his need to be a hero, etc. etc. And this is great in small doses but it can’t be Aang’s (or anyone’s) whole character. Aang needs to feel like a person beyond the backstory, and in this episode he didn’t (and I know it’s writing not acting because Gordon acted the hell out of those lines as usual). Aang being the only one who could resist the fog felt plot armor-y to me but it’s whatever. I liked the further development of Aang and Gyatso’s relationship, they’re very sweet, BUT this is the billionth instance of the show taking something important Katara did (in this case telling Aang he couldn’t have stopped the Air Nomad genocide) and giving it to a male character. They need to stop doing that.

Katara has gone back to doing nothing and having things happen to her but that was true for everyone this episode so I’ll let it slide THIS TIME! Her flashback was well-done (both Kiawentiio and whoever plays young Katara DELIVERED on the acting). The change of having her mother die explicitly because of her bending, while dark, has potential for really interesting exploration in the future, and also sets up some parallels with Aang if they want to explore that. There are also some rather problematic aspects of it relative to her arc as a whole (explained in this awesome post), but in isolation I think it works as a writing choice.

Sokka’s backstory was also well done and I liked that they laid the foundations for where his insecurities come from. I saw some people saying Hakoda would never say that, but I don’t think he was characterized thoroughly enough in the original to make that call. I also think that he’s a minor enough character that they can make those changes without much of a consequence. I do, however, think they needed to switch Sokka and Katara’s flashbacks in terms of order, because Katara’s is objectively way worse but having Sokka’s after it makes it feel like it’s not and it’s just weird.

Zuko didn’t do a lot this episode but Dallas Liu continues to be great.

Highlight of the episode was definitely the Azula scenes for me (and yes this is definitely influenced by my bias since she’s my favorite character). I wasn’t sure how I felt about her nearly burning the trainer because she’s not a RAAAH ANGER character and I didn’t want them to make her one, but I thought about it and realized it made sense if it was more of an “I’m practicing and I can’t stop” thing. I decided to interpret it that way and give it the benefit of the doubt. Of course I loved the “You’re perfect” “It’s not good enough” exchange. It’s an echo of Azula’s book 2 intro but with a younger Azula who’s with her friends and doesn’t have to wear the same masks and hasn’t beaten all the insecurities out of herself yet. I like that this show is allowing her to show so many emotions right off the bat. I loved Azula as a villain in Book 2 but it felt like the original didn’t decide they wanted her to be more than that until mid book 3. This show wants her to be more layered right off the bat, and as someone who always advocates for acknowledging Azula’s depth I really appreciate that. I also loved the shots of her training and just being so frustrated with herself during Gyatso’s final monologue. The narration suited her well and it was something I always pictured her doing when I imagined her life in between Zuko’s banishment and Book 2. It felt very in character.

My overall impression was that not a lot happened in this episode. Like, almost nothing happened. They introduced a cool new setting which I think worked. They used the lack of plot to do some good character work, with varying degrees of success. The flashbacks were good, but the show needs to do more thinking on how those events shaped the characters beyond just having them be their trauma. The main trio’s dynamic did improve a little bit in the spirit world. Sokka and Katara both got to be snarky which was great, but I do still feel like that dynamic is lacking and I can’t put my finger on why. I think it’s serious tone because every time the three of them are together they’re talking about some massive thing. They’re never just…together. I appreciated that this episode had some together time, even if only a little. Azula was by far the highlight (for me) I hope I like her future scenes just as much. And here’s a reminder that anyone who hates on Lizzy Yu for not looking exactly like a cartoon character is not welcome on this blog.

I’ll give this episode an 8.4/10 (elevated because of the Azula scenes).

[itgr]

Early ROS season 3 Kodya thoughts (aka here's my excuse to ramble)

I'm only on episode 180. I have thoughts on a lot of things but rn I just wanna talk about Kodya?? Idk ever since we've seen him again in episode 159, he's been a lot more stoic and and standoffish than he used to be? (at least compared to his season 2 counterpart, which yeah he spent most of that outside his body but he wasn't this standoffish to Gyrus before). He's a lot more similar to his season 1 counterpart in some ways which I found interesting. Originally, I thought it would be a temporary thing just from the shock of seeing Gyrus again and recovering from the fact he genuinely thought they'd never meet again, but then he kind of stays that way and he's kind of snarky and defensive which I find interesting. I really like when characters are flawed or are tangibly impacted by things that have happened to them. Anyways here's like multiple reasons I headcanon (some of these are just straight up stated or heavily implied) there's such a big character shift (at least to me):

Um. Yeah he literally thought he'd never see his on and off boyfriend of several years who he literally fought so hard to keep around. That's going to fuck you up regardless of if it ended up not being true

^ Also I feel like losing Gyrus again definitely brought back some old pain and trauma from the time he, yknow, watched Gyrus lose himself over the course of years and eventually had to be the one to kill him ^^ so. YEAH (he has abandonment issues to me)

This is more of a minor point but we should talk about how fucky it would be to spend several years with people from the future and then be plopped back into your time period and expected to just. Keep existing like nothing happened and like you don't know at least hundreds of separate things and concepts that are, quite literally, ahead of your time

Look me in the eyes and tell me he didn't 100% face or see homophobia after returning to his time period. You know that would mess with him a bit (I find his defensiveness near Iro, while partially justified, really interesting? because it's the first time I can think of we get any implication that homophobia explicitly exists in the world of ROS <- which makes sense and it also makes sense to assume that the room of swords itself was probably pretty queer friendly because of the amount of different people there. Anyways Kodya's defensiveness near Iro just reads to me as someone anticipating homophobia because of firsthand experience with it)

Gyrus self deprecating about not as strong as Masiosare, who's essentially like if you took BB! Gyrus's inability to open up and ask for help and his tendencies to do morally fucked up shit for his version of the greater good and then maximised it(/hj), probably made Kodya feel worse. Like he already spent years watching Gyrus lose himself to those ideals and I feel like at this point, the amount of trust issues and general abandonment issues of having a partner who used to hide things from you constantly until it literally destroyed him, combined with that same partner now self deprecating and faintly implying he wants to be like that again, would 100% trigger the shit out of his trauma and probably make him feel like history's going to repeat itself

I don't know if this was intentional but (oversimplification) CPTSD symptoms tend to show up after the person's left whatever stressful environment they used to be in and it starts flaring up because the brain can't process or understand that its in a safe environment and is still in a very defensive protective mode even when it technically shouldn't be. Kodya's likely CPTSD from, yknow, EVERYTHING in the room of swords probably could've started flaring up because of the fact he finally managed to escape, which could also partially explain his mentioned thoughts of feeling cursed and like he'd never be happy before Gyrus showed up (it's a common thing to struggle to feel happy or safe after not having experienced either feeling for a long time)

In conclusion, Kodya Karevic is a well written mentally ill little guy who's literally done zero (0) wrong in his entire life/j. Jokes aside, I wanted an excuse to ramble and get my thoughts out and also just talk about how pleasantly surprising it is to have them actually acknowledge the flaws in Strawbarrow's relationship and show Kodya have tangible problems with trusting Gyrus again. Idk I really like how well and complexly they're written

[rainbowcarousels]

No need to apologize, a sudden essay was truly all I ever wanted 🥹 it does align quite perfectly doesn’t it? I mean sometimes it’s all about “reading between the lines” as Lestat once said, specially when it comes to characters who are not Lestat himself/the people closest to him at any given time or POV characters, and this is one of those instances where we’re given just enough to do that imo, it’s all there in the timelines like you said. “It just won't change the fact that he had a second chance to do it right this time with Daniel where he had failed before, to not be a blunt object seeking practical solutions and prove he can in fact take care of people without destroying them”, god this is so true, and I think it also ties back to him being a “failed experiment” in his maker’s eyes, and how he’d been conditioned in his mind (by fate, by circumstance) to repeat that pattern. Armand’s sense of identity in regards to who he is to Daniel is a huge thing too and I’ve always HC that at some point during their difficult years and then in their years apart, he probably rationalized it as him only being fit to be his lover but not his teacher in the blood (which of course represented yet another unforgivable failure).

“He's trying so hard in the modern age to make caregiver be a huge part of him and to be seen as someone who keeps his children safe and even if Daniel was safe at the time, I can't help but think it would bother him that his own firstborn had to be cared for by someone else and that maybe Lestat would be the only person he would really admit this to because he would be the one to understand it.” Yes! Reminds me of that great post by @monstersinthecosmos I think(!) that had me nodding along from start to finish where they mentioned (and I’m only paraphrasing lmao) how Trinity Gate, despite having being conceived as a safe place where people could all heal and come together as a family, also ends up being a place where Armand has to live up to a lot of expectations (the caretaker, the teacher, the protector), like he had to in the cult, and then the theater. And not only that but it would also serve as a constant reminder of how when it had mattered the most, with his own fledging, he was not able to do it. Lestat would totally understand Armand and never judge him for it, he’s “failed” in similar ways before and plays a similar role to Armand’s in the present (the only difference I think is the scale, Lestat has made more fledglings than one can count and Armand only has Daniel to dump all of his trauma on, bless) xoxo DA still sad asf but your meta is like chicken soup for the soul ❤️‍🩹

Absolutely all of this!! Lestat is not omnicient, even if sometimes it feels like he is and you have to remember you're a person removed from his stories.

Oooh yeah actually that is an excellent point, it makes it a little bit worse that it's Marius that takes care of Daniel and the whole idea of maybe Daniel would be considered a failed fledgling from Armand adds to the idea of him being a failed experiment himself. It's a generational trauma thing too, I think this is something Daniel is terrified of being seen as something Armand regrets and sees as a failure, but Armand trying to figure out who he is to people is such a big pattern in all of his identites and part of it definitely feels like it stems from feeling like he can't measure up to his previous self in the eyes of his own maker. Like he couldn't even get something that any back alley vampire made on a whim can do properly, that is a spiral waiting to happen even if it's not true.

Absolutely 100% agree that Armand could rationalise it that way, he does tend to seperate his identities and roles as a coping mechanism but I also think it's just another nail in the coffin of feeling like this is his failure. It would have been compounded by living with the day to day of Daniel when he was at his worst and probably wound have caused a knock on spiral which wouldn't have been fair to either of them, but it doesn't make it easier.

Trinity Gate, despite having being conceived as a safe place where people could all heal and come together as a family, also ends up being a place where Armand has to live up to a lot of expectations (the caretaker, the teacher, the protector), like he had to in the cult, and then the theater. And not only that but it would also serve as a constant reminder of how when it had mattered the most, with his own fledging, he was not able to do it.

This just punches me in the gut every time. I hadn't really thought about it in this context but you're right, the scale of it with Lestat and Armand being seen as community leaders in their own right really does echo each other and puts so much pressure on both of them to be more than themselves. They are roles and figureheads but that doesn't leave them with much space to explore their own traumas and identities in detail. Even in their own homes, it's not really about them.

Someone really needs to make a therapist for these folks, they really need to learn some ways to process what they're going through that isn't running away (Lestat) or trying to wear his reputation like armour to protect not only himself but his children (Armand). I think if you sat down and really interrogated why Armand feels the need to protect his own people so intensely, he's been losing them since he was a child and losing himself over and over at the same time and it's why I think it would bother him to have someone else do that for his child. It's become a part of how he sees himself so it shakes his very sense of identity and it wouldbe a fascinating thing to explore one day.

Thank you for soming in and letting me think about this stuff, I appreciate getting the chance to really look at it in detail!

[darkkitty1208]

Thinking about what it would be like if Stephen meets Shuri. Wakanda Forever spoilers ahead.

I mean, they both share the trauma of losing siblings (like most in the MCU are lmao). To make it even better, (or worse. Depends on your definition of better and worse XD) there's also the fact that Ramonda died drowning like Donna did, too... As always I thought of scenarios and now I can't stop thinking about what it'd be like if they had a heart-to-heart and bonded through their grief.

What if one day an interdimensional attack happened in Wakanda and the sorcerers insisted to help as they were more experienced in dealing with the sort? Shuri doesn't strike me as the type to easily trust someone after what she's been through, so I guess it would make sense if she would refuse at first. Stephen could somehow convince her, or maybe Okoye would, or both of them. Point is, she would give in at the end and accept their offer.

Talokans could be involved but their presence doesn't change the whole idea. Although I think it will be inevitable anyway as the battle, in my imagination, will be in a body of water or wherever in Wakanda where water is present. You can sort of see where I'm going with this *wiggles eyesbrows*.

Stephen could bond with Shuri through their planning stage of the battle. Maybe he thinks that Shuri is incredibly talented for someone her age and grows respect for her. Shuri in turn sees a reflection of T'challa in Stephen at some point. Don't get me wrong, Stephen and T'challa are both incredibly different and complex characters, but what reminds you most of your sibling if not playful banter?

Okay. So then when the time comes, the creature breaches through the water, their defenses are up and everyone knows what they're doing. Everything goes according to plan for while, before at some point Shuri fell into the water, preferably injured or something so that she is mostly incapable of swimming back up, but before Namor or any of the other Talokans could save her, Stephen panics, drops whatever he was dealing with, and immediately dives in to save her.

He would mutter something like 'Oh god, Donna, you're safe, you're okay' in a small, panicked voice when he brings Shuri back to land, and Shuri would be conscious enough to half-hear it, half-process it, but is probably too busy trying to get her breath back to ask.

When the battle ends and the creature's successfully banished back to its realm, what's left is to fix the collateral damage and heal the wounded.

Shuri approaches Stephen as he tends to his own injuries, formally thanking him and the sorcerers for assisting them and help protect her people, and then just takes a moment to converse with him or something. At some point she brings up 'Donna', and something about her, something about that moment, just makes Stephen feel like it's safe to share to her about that. Maybe it's because he knew she wouldn't respond with pity but, in turn, with understanding. Maybe it's because of the tiredness after the battle that makes him feel more vulnerable. Maybe it's because he sees Donna in her, too.

So Stephen tells her about Donna, maybe even about Victor too. Shuri just looks at him for a moment and then asks him to come with her, and then bring him to the lake where she and her mother had sat that night in front of the fire.

Since burning funeral garments is out of the question here, she could just tell him to sit down and reminisce his time with his sibling(s). She could share about her own experience in grieving over her mother and brother, and Stephen would respond in kind -- with understanding.

So yeah. I think I sort of got carried away with the scenario a bit too much. XD Now that I think about it, MCU!Stephen lost Donna when she fell into ice, dammit, but ugh. Too late for that thought now.

[rodanseys]

my thoughts on taylor + joe’s breakup is underneath the cut bc i want to state them but don’t want others to have to read about them if they don’t want to

so i think it sounds just like a normal human breakup?  perhaps the first normal breakup taylor has had wherein two people just realize their circumstances have caused them to no longer be compatible?  i don’t disagree that the daily mail’s source might be right about the fact joe feels insecure dating taylor when his star is still rising... but can we blame him?  i definitely couldn’t date someone with a star as big as taylor’s if mine was not, as well, bc that would also affect my self-esteem.  it just means that they aren’t compatible and that’s ok.  and of course this wasn’t a problem until tour began-- that makes total sense.  it all checks out.

i also think it’s true that joe probably had less control over his schedule bc his star is still rising, whereas taylor is so popular she gets to call the shots with so much of her work.  so joe not only has this potential and valid insecurity, but also can’t be there to see taylor as often bc he’s trying to fix that maybe by taking all the gigs he can, which unintentionally drives them apart.  no matter how much power taylor has to make time for him, he doesn’t have the same, which only makes whatever other problems they are having worse. 

i couldn’t believe having to be either of them in this situation.  it sucks for joe bc he entered this relationship with taylor during a time her fame felt different than it does now and he had more time to get to know her as a person, not as a literal music legend.  both are vital parts of her identity and both are things any of her partners needs to be able to tend to and work with in order for relationships to last.  i’m sure he’s felt really blindsided and overwhelmed, which is terrible.  meanwhile, taylor is finally in a really good place, as she deserves, and has the power and knowledge to make this work, but her partner can’t compensate bc of where he is at and bc of her star, which she shouldn’t have to give up, but likely thought he understood the gravity of, but didn’t.

at the end of the day, they are two people who broke up from what seems like circumstance, which is just so heartbreaking bc they obviously love each other for so many other reasons and had some false pretenses about what their lives could look like from how covid impacted joe’s perception of taylor’s fame, among other things, i’m sure.  i’m just weirdly stoked that, for the first time, we’re seeing what seems like a pretty mutual beneficial break-up for taylor (not to mean it won’t be painful as hell) that didn’t involve any unbalanced power dynamics, toxicity, trauma, etc. (most of the drama is from tabloids and FANS y’all need to CHILL!!!!). the way their breakup was described as “undramatic” kind of encapsulates the strengths of the relationship as a whole, and i hope they can take all the lessons they have learned and bring them into whatever romances may lie ahead. 

[hanzi83]

I Wanted to Write A Blog as I was Falling Asleep.

Whenever big events are promoted, I tend to have to memorize points for the podcast which never really goes the way I want it, since I am scatterbrained a lot of the time and then when I recap shit, I tend to add a bit of what the discourse is and sometimes writing shit down doesn’t always equal a good reading, especially if it is days after and I have gotten my frustration out, so I did want to vent about this shit in written form even though I kind of talked about it on podcast. But there is something more direct with writing it, instead of just consuming news and hot takes and then sporadically letting it out of my head at weird times at the night since I cannot sleep during regular hours, then I am left with accumulated mental stress from personal mental trauma that never goes away, plus the added bonus that everything is designed to just implode, and maybe people connected know where the future is headed, maybe on some level I might know from the “dream world” since it feels like in the dream society, shit is seeping out from there to the surface, and I figure maybe some advanced shit is being done mentally to give me the “confidence” to give out my predictions of the grandview, because on the surface, I don’t have secret knowledge nor do I know shit for a fact, but when I have seen how shit has played out, I feel in an overall sense I have been right about the trajectory where the world is going, especially with the world of entertainment, since that now has always had ties to political shit, but now it is like the 2 worlds have blended, and I think the actual entertainment and the products have become background noise because the real storylines are done for social media, and now the people who cover shit, and I include sports entertainment personalities who are just “random” accounts that are looking for gigs and to socially climb up. Most people are “shocked” by Vince returning and taking back power, it would not be a surprise to anyone if you didn’t always work hard for the last 20 plus years that this is a dumbed down villain, who doesn’t know what a burrito is, or he doesn’t know what anything outside of wrestling is, yet he hates wrestling. I feel like when you are at a powerful level, you know you are going to take L’s throughout your career, but you don’t know what kind of connections these people have, it doesn’t help that we make it seem like entertainment institutions abide by the same morale and rules that mom and pop shops abide why. It is a problem with all entertainment actually. I know I am an irrelevant podcast and blog and account, but I am still allowed to live, for right now at least, instead of letting me leave this planet since I have no interest in how further right shit is going, but who is gonna give a shit what I have to say. I think at this point, since important people in different entertainment sections focus on what I do,  since they monitor and keep an eye on everyone, I think my shit will probably piss them off and then they have the power to reach the masses and get them even more infatuated with tropes that I dislike, and people who are compromised double down on their rhetoric, hell they have the ability to infect people close to you to buy into being  elitist scumbags who want more power. I think the exploitation I had to deal with and people who used to be close have profited, and now as the years go on more, you are seeing them become worse, never admitting to any wrongdoing, and you hope they secretly read this shit so it wakes them up, but even they will rub my face in shit that they are more popular and they have had a history of trying to always take from me. It is not just a personal problem, every day I see more sports entertainment accounts become the worst versions of themselves and just be performative about the system, they need to hold onto their credibility when the jig is up about the entire sports entertainment shit that everyone is basically compromised. Even when you call out someone like Vince, it is controlled narratives that never dig deeper, only stuff that has circulated on internet chat rooms since the 90’s, and now those are coming true. I knew people were not really for the truth when they would focus on Vince solely and act like other people in that inner circle didn’t know anything about what Vince did or has done, when it goes so much further, especially when this industry is a mafia industry, like on surface Triple H has had shit he has covered up and people have spoke about it, so people hung onto this last grasp of hope that Vince was actually gone, and not that this has been a long con to solidify him as the ultimate villain, like other public figures and powerful people who now exist on social media for the corrupt shit they have done, with nothing happening to them because we are headed in an era where there will be a right leaning takeover of the world and some of the people who have done villainous shit and have political ties are now being exposed, because they did so in an era where it is close where they will never be held accountable, and it will be meant for the people to revolt. 

So I was not shocked about the revelation of him being back. I always suspected and you can check the record on this from past streams or blogs etc, that I always felt that WWE and UFC always had a connection, there is this tactic I feel people like Vince or Howard Stern do, where they have a cult like entertainment program that has made them millions, but sooner or later they knew that there are people who hate them and will always be vocal about it, so if they used their power and resources to cosign something or have another project, it would be succeed to the masses because their names are stained, while they have a loyal following but in order for them to really be successful, they have to cosign shit under the table so people who enjoy the art of whatever they are doing can consume it and have a peace of mind that they are not consuming their shit, and you wouldn’t think so because you don’t see any of their stereotypical handprints on it, which is why the talking heads have to give you what you’re supposed to look out for to know they are involved with shit, the truth is you don’t know how smart these people are and that is not a compliment, I don’t see the words “smart” and “genius” as positive affirming words, they are neutral, because someone can be smart/genius and be the biggest piece of shit on the planet, but people can only hate villains if we reduce them to America’s dumbest criminal type villains who do comedic shit for the memes and nonstop engagement to be talked about. It feels like the shit we have consumed entertainment wise is manifested into becoming a real life reality show. I knew once Succession started, that it would be go to for the discourse because we are going to continue to live in an era where now every public figure in the political or media world will now have those similar dynamics, so we insist on looking at this shit by making up a reality show comedy version of the characters. And we love to think because we post on the internet that we are right about how these people are and expect people to think they are dangerous in some regard but then get mad at people in the wrestling media for not asking the right questions when bad faith actors know they are cogs in the system, like if someone like Vince is quite possibly someone who has committed atrocious acts, exploited people, may have covered up murder etc, again it is not proven officially but those things circulate online and they make enough documentaries where they want you to lean in that direction, then why doesn’t the villainous image you want for him ever include that he could be so dangerous that he could have people fucked with mentally and physically if they truly embarrassed them and asked a real question about the corruption, like if you have done evil shit and fucked up shit has been built upon in your industry then why can’t I assume you are a lot more dangerous than the shit advertised, like once someone lies about shit, people don’t believe them and I am supposed to believe he is only evil in this dumbed down way? But I hold MSM and alt media more accountable for not covering Vince’s shit, every affiliate of Trump got analyzed nonstop and were in the discourse to become caricatures, why didn’t any progressive media outlet “that is better than MSM” and if you don’t believe it, they will mention it every single time before they do their bullshit narratives with bullshit personalities, then why would you not even speculate on this wrestling to right wing politics pipeline that has been developed. You can’t say that is silly, look at how many pro wrestlers have run for office in some way, Big Dick Johnson is literally on Turning Point USA. Rick Steiner is on some school board and spewed anti trans shit, and WWE still has nothing to fucking say about it. They have him under a legends contract. It feels more people who have been let go from the company who have the same politics of the company are part of patriot groups, Q Anon, supporting anti trans rhetoric. Sometimes I wonder if it is supposed to be obvious that celebrities are now playing characters for social media and they will have different moments of rebranding since everything that exists, exists for documentaries, meaning the system will allow your mental and physical abuse go on if they can profit off it later on, like people are initiated into shit and we never focus on why people in the system, especially in entertainment are in these fucked up situations, but we insist on presenting them as regular people who live by regular rules. 

So when I watched Raw, I knew discourse was happening but I was not aware of the discourse and “runsheet changes” that were being promoted until I caught up live when watching the show on DVR, and watching it in a bubble, it didn’t seem like anything out of the ordinary, despite people saying Triple H made shit better etc and some things got better but there are still watered down acts that have shit creative, even if there are some positive changes to some degree, but it seemed like a typical episode of Raw, then I saw the discourse and what was being presented, low morale, script changes, viral photos of the production team getting multiple notes, Seth being told during the break he was not gonna talk etc, it is like they script the discourse to make it more chaotic. For the first time in a while AEW shill are on top of the world, and thing is if this were 2 years ago, maybe they would have a leg to stand on but in the last year and half, they have showed they are not as organic or genuine, they bent over backwards for another billionaire and piled on people who they wanted to get trashed online, but they did it with edgelord rhetoric and cool aesthetic because they tweet about which people in the industry they want to fuck, but then when CM Punk “left” they forced their anti establishment rhetoric and analyzed the show and helped book discourse even if it meant undercutting the program and talent involved to spare the ego of a industry plant in Phil, that is just my opinion, but now that he is coming back, now suddenly they are pro AEW again because they are getting their way because they want to force rebooted attitude era fetish shit and they are not motivated in everyone becoming bigger or building bigger legacies, they want every big match given away every week because they benefit off the discourse, they don’t know shit about booking when attitude era and everything after is what they fucking consumed, people will say “That era made so much money” but the era where you built up to big matches with characters people were invested into, made a lot more money and had more people watching these big matches, you should be able to combine the good of all eras, but my point is that I don’t trust shill accounts that ruined other people’s lives, they would get the white supremacist trolls to shit on if if my opinions about their favorites were getting out of control, they can’t be as obvious about it because they need to punish me by making me irrelevant online so I give up and don’t tweet shit out, but because I am losing followers and no one interacts, I feel more motivated to put my thoughts out there, and they still get triggered even if they are getting their wish of my suppression and mental torment, where it is even affecting my personal life. Talk about people taking entertainment too seriously huh? Of course I can’t officially prove it right, and no one would believe me, but these people believe I should not even express this shit or vent out my frustrations with what this entertainment has done to people’s minds and it is gonna be the end of us. This is just wrestling, now amplify that between other entertainment, and now the political figures are just as much entertainment, we are fucking debating if AOC has a burner account that tweets out sexually explicit shit. I know I go off on tangents but all of this bullshit to basically say that I don’t even trust the anti WWE accounts because they limit internet shit all the time, whenever anyone says “WWE did good things when they were forced into making the decision because of us” like they really don’t know what they are doing, making the amount of money and having the amount of power they do, you really think they don’t know how to work people for real? I am just saying if you are gonna hate villains then hate them for the legit power they have, not this dumbed down bullshit. No matter what people think or say, other companies you watch, are permitted to being there, which is why I never gave a shit if I watched some of the WWE shit, because no matter what you are watching, there is WWE shit within it, every promotion has to do their tropes of being discourse company and it keeps repeating every era, and at this point being an internet fan is just as much pretentious as the “dumb marks” they tend to make fun of or they think they are better than. Like instead of hating these people they think it is the ultimate dunk to go “CAN YOU BELIEVE TRIPLE H CAME OUT AND SAID NOTHING WAS GONNA CHANGE THEN THERE WERE 15 FUCKING CHANGES TO THE PROGRAM LMAO” and then changes happened, like yeah that is pretty much the job of the villain now to say shit where the opposite is being said online which somehow become the outlet where everything is true apparently. That promo was so for the purpose of featuring that in a future documentary down the line, you want to know how I can tell even the “rebellious” talent shtick is a work, like now people are pretending that WWE would really take away someone’s Dana Brookes sign,  because now being screwed over by your boss is a new character arch, not that they didn’t deal with anything bad but it feels like a new marketing trick, and it may have meant more 10 years ago, even 20 years ago, but now, it feels as watered down the product itself. 

Now this is where TK is gonna look the billionaire baby face again, let me guess, he will bring in Jay White, he will bring back CM Punk, he will bring in Mercedes, and suddenly the complaints of the booking will go down even though there was nothing too bad about the booking the last 8 months, maybe some standard modern wrestling booking that might seem filler, but AEW didn’t have the best creative since their inception all the time, not everything was hitting, and I just feel they amplified the worked shit online and made it detrimental to their product and repeating the same talking points over and over and I think booking the product like shit to some degree with obvious booking errors, and the only compelling shit they could come up with the online discourse is the trope of “this person wants to leave” and if they do leave, TK probably gets his shills to discredit them and downplay them, in fact there were some unsavory rumors about what some female talents had to deal with, the shills helped cover that up from the discourse and yet they are some credible experts on this Vince shit. Instead of making the changes to the safety and other shit they know they can do, the system rather create another obvious situation where people have to then state the obvious, you can just book women properly, you are capable, but let me guess we are gonna dumb it down so Mercedes can come in and save it instead of just having a strong division and then the added bonus of her coming. It gets tiring being this invested in the discourse, and then look at the booking errors in the political world, it is good to see political analysts being disappointed with booking decisions, oh you didn’t the villain Trump in prison just yet like you have been promising, well wrestling fans have been dealing with the villains always winning in the end for the longest time, it was the attitude era when Trump did his political thing, like much how fans eventually got sick of Austin coming out for 5 different segments every week, it is the same deal with Trump, everything has been relating to him, and now people who were getting this high off this becoming the political discourse for the last several years, how much money was made from phony coverage from MSM and alt media over things that revolved around Trump, and now the those same attitude era tricks aren’t working as much so they need to get more ridiculous with the political storylines like how the Ruthless Aggression was. It feels like everything is designed to just implode and people are playing different roles to facilitate their part. Everyone is more concerned with becoming a scripted character and I have to dumb it down to be on their level because as sophisticated this shit seems on some level, people are constantly limiting the narratives of all this shit and don’t want to face the reality that your heroes and your favorite institutions are not on the up and up and they have more power and now the “experts online” who are controlled cogs will only call out shit to a certain point until they get their gigs and the power they want before showing you what kind of horrible pieces of shit they are. They make everything a fucking sports entertainment storyline, they think because they are more cynical it makes them more genuine and legit, they would not want to disclose they have been reduced to being the shit disturber that is allowed to be in the castle while pissing on the outside rather than being outside pissing in, they make it look like the opposite and then you have the overly positive ones who can’t wait to partake in acknowledging Roman Reigns at a press conference, some of these people who can pull off their social media character, because they get propped up at the top level all the time, they think they are much more interesting than they are, when they get on camera, it is clear there is a social media team that write their jokes etc, look at the comedy stylings of that libs of tiktok woman Raya who is now doing stuttering John level man on the street shit where she gets a confrontation with public figures etc, it doesn’t feel genuine and she doesn’t have the charisma to really pull it off but because she caters to the right wing and helped manufacture consent for more anti trans shit, so it is okay for her to be this comedic figure. And a lot of the right wing and post left accounts online are in the same category to me. It is clear who is allowed to be propped up and confident in what they say and do are permitted and protected people. I am glad I didn’t reduce myself to end up going to the far right, and you read my conspiracies 10 years ago, you would think I am a prime candidate to be someone duped in, trust me the system tried to find ways to lure me in that direction. 

I waited for the last decade or so for Vince’s exposition and I can’t say I am into how they are laying out the creative of this, they had to book the guy who have a fucking shitty mushtache, that he probably smells like possum piss. It is not even real life anymore, and the closer we are getting to it and when it fully does show you what he is going to do and what he will become, I think I can maybe put this entire fandom behind me. I can’t stick around for another company becoming a discourse company and it is gonna just reboot and repeat shit and I don’t think I can handle another decade of that. I already get sick of official revisionist history and then the online revisionist history is out of control, and then you really don’t know what is the truth anymore, everything starts out underground but it turns out the underground is funded by the mainstream, it is like ECW basically, like something that is known as rebellious even though they were probably always funded by the WWE types, while the WWE/MSM types act like they don’t want it to exist even though they are gonna incorporate their shit into the product, then the handpicked ones from the underground get their MSM gigs and the others who won’t advance any further got sold a movement built up on lies and they will not be paid or get any protection from the system, it is basically the same cycle with a lot of the social media narratives, all these alt media hosts who want to play the role of Paul Heyman from the 90’s then end up being on Tucker Carlson’s show and rebranding their image and we will think they used to think they were rebels when they most likely are not. And it feels like the joke is on me that I have to constantly see and relive these tropes every decade that I still manage to live through. I know I will give in because more craziness is gonna happen because of this Endeavor deal with WWE. I somehow figured there would be connections with UFC since a lot of their characters now have pro wrestler characters, they planted those roots with someone like Brock going there, I always figured that when someone “leaves” WWE they are still part of the family, like if they are not supposed to succeed, they won’t get opportunities and will be blacklisted and have no support system, but since it is a mafia in my opinion, it is like the performers are always kicking up to Vince etc but they can’t officially be tied to WWE to succeed because if WWE cosigns Batista’s endeavors then people would despise him, but him having the image of going viral for criticizing the WWE will be seen as not giving a fuck. And when it continuously gets perpetuated in this narrative shit,. I even debated writing this and I am not even feeling it but I did waste time on this so I might as well publish it, but be forewarned that I will probably try to write another one where I am gonna end up repeating the same shit, and then I become part of the problem. It is hard to escape because there are people who get sent to entice me with dangling me to still continue to watch nonstop and my presence in the fandom is needed, yet they still continuously punish me for having my own narratives, or my own ideas and not dumbing it down and I am not playing by a script and you can tell which people do because once you start making a bigger point, they immediately start to show aggression because they hate that I made a good point that goes above their point and the bigger you are with status, people look at me as someone who is lower than them so the fact they are even being slightly nicer towards me, I am supposed to be so thankful because I am normally treated like shit. I am tired of having to be beaten mentally by people, and because entertainment has played a role in shaping people’s minds, like if I decided not to watch this shit, you have to deal with people who consume it and make it their entire personality who literally terrorize people with that shit, and since entertainment has political ties, it is like everything is trying to get a nonstop reaction from you and when this shit goes 24/7 and no time off from this, this is making us fucking insane, now add incentive of why people want to be propped up as a character, and you have more recipes for disasters, different cliques wondering why people act different and rebrand, like there aren’t gimmick changes on the horizon. It makes no fucking sense. More people want to be characters and all of it doesn’t have any fucking meaning to it. 

I don’t know what the future is gonna be with this company or industry. I can make guesses, I wonder if it forces a revolution, do the elitists run amok and let us know how evil they are and they have no problem with it, because they will remain in power and it is like an NWO level thing going on, people say they are opposed to it and they need to stop the evil of Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, but the more the heels win and then more people in the system who see the heels winning and overcoming despite all of us condemning them, but then they end up joining the NWO and before you know it, we will get 6 or 7 incarnations of the thing, people will start to get amazed by the fact these villains are so evil, but they are functioning and thriving in the system better than before, it is easy for people to see this as a reason why it is better to join them than be against them, and it feels I keep seeing that more and more. It becomes disheartening and it makes me just say that I am ready to leave this place, I would say I have outgrown all of this, but I am 5’6. But it is getting to the point where I don’t want to care about any of this shit anymore but it is one of the last things I had in my life that has been constant in my life since 3 years old, I used to distract from my shitty existence, and nothing has changed, and now with the Stern element and what that did, and people I know being close with people  in that industry, it is hard to get this out of my life when they have ensured that I will have to have face rubbed into shit. I am at the point where I don’t give a shit about vindication, you can do that when I am dead and exploit the shit. I don’t see a bright future head and i feel everyone is becoming a caricature of what they once were, it hurts more coming alt media figure heads because they made it seem like they are credible and calling out the system and then get mad if you expected more from them, it is like why root for anyone to make it if they are all gonna be corrupted and morally bankrupt, like entertainment and politics are nonstop liars showing they lie, and now I am supposed to root for more people to become liars, like if you have a superpower in convincing and manipulating people, why am I am not allowed to think they would use their superpowers for unethical shit? I am tired of it but my natural inclination is to vent then go back into being back in the thick of things, it is probably no one cares when I vent, because I get sucked back into this shit, and I wish I could find a way to program my mind not to ever care about this shit, but more shit will transpire. I will never be happy here. I need to fucking leave this planet as soon as possible. I don’t even get why people with power would let me remain here, you already took everything away from me mentally and ensured I will never have freedom, like I am already irrelevant and defeated, what more else do you want from me? Do I have to be alive to see people close to me turn into complete heels, it is not about bad enough I was put on the backburner and having to take mental abuse from people but now you want me at my already worst, and have me finally lose my fucking mind. I don’t see any way out of this, they would love for me to attempt suicide because the pain hurts so much mentally, but I know it would be a botched attempt and then I would be even more in their control, I am supposed to lose control, so they bring it back to Stern days so then people see me at the current state and go “Oh look he actually did lose his mind” because they would want that perpetuated and manifested. Anyways, this blog was not that great, but maybe I should write more not so great blogs and make my enemies read it and feel they wasted more time reading it and they will get angered, when some of you have boastful connections and aesthetic which should be fulfilling enough, this is one of those blogs that if you are creative and you’re worried if higher ups are impressed with it, this would shed all doubt that I might suck at this, you have to see the proof for yourself, you need to get your teacher friends on the horn and ask to grade it, this was not one of those blogs. I needed it to get out there. I don’t know why. Listen to the experts, I am a big dumb conspiracy guy rambling with run on sentences about some 80 year old billionaire in Vince and how he runs illuminati, well the wrestling one at least, I think I got bored halfway through, or am I doing a worked shoot to purposefully undercut it by making this a discourse blog and we are just gonna go in a loop nonstop for the next several years and decades. Maybe even centuries, I am passing out as I write this and I am gonna post it. Fuck it all to hell.

[sillylittlevulpine]

I have... I have additional things to say on top of agreeing wholeheartedly with all your previous statements.

- This Man is always up to something. Always two steps ahead of everyone else. Full of mischief. He's gonna use this against you. For fun...

- His flamboyant nature. Like holy shit.

-You know for a fact if he wanted to, he could flirt with and fluster any person he came across. He's a people reader of course he can

- His way of speaking. He tends to sound so poetic and other times incredibly Sarcastic and condescending

-His Daemon form makes him ten times sexier

- One of those people that's super hot when he's angry. Enough said.

- He's always several steps ahead, and a wild card. You can't tell me he wouldn't be fun to be in a relationship with. He's always gonna find something to do to catch you off guard

- If you're dating him, No one's gonna dare touch you, let alone glance in your direction. Pretty good sense of safety right there

- This man has so many sides, and there's so much depth to his personality.

- He strikes me as a deeply philosophical man. Conversations with him are gonna be deep, real, and intelligent. I want to hear everything he has to say. And then some

- He's got a really soft side, though it isn't shown much anymore. His anger is a result of not only his pain, but the pain of so many others that he really wishes he could help. I find this incredibly beautiful

- You mentioned his humor, but like I'd like to go in depth with the fact that it's either dark or dirty 90% of the time. A little eccentric. Nice nice

- His expressiveness in his face alone. Let alone the body language. He feels emotions and he feels them very deeply.

- He seems like he doesn't hold back with intimidating and messing with people, but we KNOW he can do much worse.

- There's no way of telling what is actually going through his head, so along with the fact that he's already good at catching people off guard, and being mischievous, if he doesn't want you to see what's coming, you won't. And if he wants you to be suspicious but not catch on, oh he can do that, too.

- Dark Jesus part of him speaks to my religious trauma

- He reads people, we established this. And that's just knowing them for a few moments. If you spark his interest he's going to figure you out and get to know you on such a deep and intimate level. I could definitely appreciate that sort of closeness with someone

- This one isn't as deep, but like, his love for automobiles is just cute, ok?? I LOVE his rest stop on the DLC

- He's super confident all of the time. Makes him charismatic. You'll have complete trust in what he's saying. Even when you maybe shouldn't...

- He acts like he doesn't have a single fuck to give. It's incredibly hard to get to him. I find it scary and endearing all at the same time.

- He's terrifying and intimidating, this one was mentioned, but hold on, let me explain. This Man is incredibly dangerous. If not the most dangerous man in all of Eos. Other than End game Noctis, if he takes interest in you, well you're fucked, there is not a single soul that can help you.

- I can appreciate a man that dresses in several layers. I too am a person that dresses in several layers of clothing. I like that sense of style.

- Ok, I'mma restate a previous point again. But his voice was literally the first thing that drew me to his character. He sounds like an Angel and a Devil at the same time. You can hear his ill intent dripping from his voice regardless of what scene he's in. But his voice is also incredibly beautiful to listen to. Like poisoned honey.

- Just gonna end off saying, feel like I'd love the thrill that would come from just being in this man's presence, being in a relationship or not. He would keep you on high alert, but like that's the fun part.

But also keep this man behind a screen and so so far away from me. He's not a person that I would pursue irl. But I think I'll continue to drool over him through my phone screen anyways. 😳

Why are you obsessed with Ardyn Izunia? Where did the fixation come from?

He's handsome in a tired AF way

I love his hair and how unkempt it is (men with long hair in general just HMFF for me)

I love his eyes and the glint of mischievousness behind them

His Voice (TM) does things to me

He intimidates the fuck out of me but in a "mark me down as scared and horny" way

I love his humor and wit

He's 2,000 years old and looks like he just rolled out of bed

He dresses like a pimp that rummaged through a dumpster

Probably would snap me in half like a glowstick but I'd thank him for it

Lot of shit with him is relatable to irl stuff

I love his Dark!Jesus phase

He's...just fucking pretty???

Most importantly, I'm 30 years old. I'm tired. A bitch can dream.

[gimme-mor]

ACOTAR THINK PIECE: ELAIN ARCHERON, UNTOUCHABLE

*DISCLAIMER*

This will be a long post.

Please take the time to read this post in its entirety and truly reflect on the message I am trying to send before commenting. My goal is to use my background in Gender and Women’s Studies to deconstruct the comments I have seen on Tumblr and Twitter and bring awareness to the ACOTAR fandom.

The reason I am tagging “Elriel” in this post is to call attention to the arguments in the Elriel fandom that: weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions about Elain’s character and her relationship with Lucien; victimize Elain’s character in fandom discussions; and coddle Elain’s character, which limits fandom discussions about her narrative development and prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions in the same way that the fandom holds other characters accountable for their actions and inactions. It is for these reasons that I WILL NOT remove the “Elriel” tag from this post because all of the above points contribute to the toxic discourse surrounding Elain’s character.

I urge those who use these arguments to understand their implications, why they are problematic, regardless of intent, and reexamine their contributions to the ACOTAR fandom. I WILL NOT tolerate anyone who tries to twist my words and say I am attacking people and their personal shipping preferences. In fact, I AM CRITIQUING THE ARGUMENTS THEMSELVES NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE ARGUMENTS.

Also, I highly encourage the Elriel fandom to read this post because it addresses how the concept of choice as an argument enables arguments to exploit social justice and feminist languge in order to vilify Elucien shippers, among other problematic things.

Elain Archeron is one of the most polarizing characters in the ACOTAR fandom. Though opinions about Elain vary, arguments in the Elriel fandom cite society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters as the reason behind the hate, and this belief is used to provide an explanation as to why other characters in the series are favored over her. In the series, Elain is portrayed in a wholly positive light and this image carries over into the Elriel fandom, painting her character as a good and kind female who has been unfairly wronged and a victim of circumstances that were out of her control. When arguments in the Elriel fandom oppose other viewpoints in the fandom, they fall into one of three categories:

Category 1: Weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions

Maybe people who hate Elain are just jealous of her in a weird way similar to when someone hates the pretty, nice, and charming girl in school just because she is too perfect

Disliking Elain is misogynistic

What happened to feminism? What happened to women supporting women? What happened to she can say no? All of that disappears the second you force Elain to be with Lucien

Elain antis are misogynistic

All Eluciens are Elain antis

Antis claiming they’re feminists when in reality they hate on Elain and Feyre but love Nesta

Elain antis are such sore losers. Y’all were that bunch of people who could not get over being rejected from hanging out with the cool kids so y’all are projecting your hatred towards pretty people now to get validation

I don’t get how Elain’s love for gardening equals boring for some people. I’m sorry your misogyny finds traditionally feminine activities boring

Why are you attacking a female? What did Elain do? Where are your feminist voices?

The fandom is misogynistic towards Elain

If people loved Elain they would ship Elriel

If you hate Elain it says a lot about your feelings toward women

If you hate Elain because she has no “development” then you must hate Azriel because otherwise you’re misogynistic

Eluciens are turned off by the idea of a woman that has the autonomy to reject a man for the simple reason that it is her choice

Eluciens are all about feminism and “it’s HER choice” until it comes down to females not wanting a male

Eluciens don’t respect Elain’s feelings when they ship her with someone that was part of her trauma and makes her feel uncomfortable

The way some Elucien shippers completely disregard how uncomfortable Elain is around Lucien is so hilariously not funny. Prioritizing being mates over Elain’s feelings is just regressive

It’s hard as a fan of Elain to see someone ship her with a person who makes her physically uncomfortable to be around. Wouldn’t you want both characters to be happy to be around each other

Imagine if SJM saw all the awful things her “stans” had to say about Elain

It’s true that we know comparatively little about her, but is she really boring or do you just not value stereotypically feminine traits?

So y’all are just gonna tell me you prefer Elucien over Elriel? Even though Lucien treats Elain as if she’s something that belongs to him? The only reason he wants to be with her is because she’s his mate, he doesn’t respect her, doesn’t treat her as his equal, even though that’s what mates should be? He doesn’t bother to look past what’s on the outside to see her for who she is. And Elain is obviously repulsed by the idea that she should belong to anyone or have no choice in who she can be with. Azriel is her friend and the only person who sees her quiet strength. He has so much faith in her, in her abilities; he’s the one who kept her company when no one else did, he’s the only one who bothered to see her for more than her brokenness. You’re going to tell me you still prefer Elucien over Elriel?

The more I see Gwynriels that ship Elucien out of their hate for Elain, the less I can understand Elain stans that ship Elucien. Pls Elain has made it very clear that she doesn’t want Lucien, why would you ship her with him? Do you hate her too? Smh

The real question would be, if you care and understand Elain why would you ship her with Lucien (where she canonically shrinks when he is near)?

People crying over Helion and Lucien’s mom not getting to be with each other and her being forced into a relationship she didn’t want, but also ship Elucien? Just say you hate Elain

When Elain’s book is out, Gwyn stans will look like clowns and I will laugh because they set her up by shipping her with Azriel just because they hate Elain. Watch them play the victims now because Elriels are clapping back the hate they’ve sent towards Elain

As romantic as wanting girl who is visibly uncomfortable around a guy who caused her trauma to end up with the said guy. Guess their standards for romance are in hell

Category 2: Victimize Elain’s character

Gwynriels only want Gwyn with Azriel because they despise Elain

Gwyn stans and Gwynriels are Elain antis

No one in the books dislike Elain, so why are there so many people who do?

Elain hasn’t done anything wrong or questionable to warrant the hate she gets

Not having Elain’s POV makes it easy for people to be swayed a certain way about her character if you already don’t relate to her in some way

It’s been years since this series came out and we haven’t gotten a lick of an Elain POV, but people still hate her for what? We don’t know her thoughts, dreams, or aspirations

We haven’t even had Elain’s perspective yet and people are passing these judgments off on her

Elain antis who say she’s boring are just cruel when she has obvious symptoms of PTSD like Feyre and Nesta

Gwyn is one of the most overhyped characters and that’s only because most people hate Elain and they couldn’t wait to find a random girl to ship Azriel with

Nesta was abusive to her sisters but Elain (who has only ever been kind) is painted as the villain

From the text we know that Elain is the epitome of feminine stereotypes (gentle, gardening, baking, non confrontational for the most part). Yet people still call her boring or deny that she has any interesting character traits?

You can’t love Nesta and hate Elain

People hate Elain because of internalized misogyny and lack of taste. All the girl does is tend to her garden and mind her business and they treat her worse than Tamlin

Does Gwyn deserve all this support? Of course yes! She is amazing! But where’s that support when Elain was in the same situation as she? Where’s that support for her right now? Why do they idolize Gwyn for her interactions with Azriel and hate Elain for having any interaction with him?

It’s not even a ship war anymore, they just hate Elain

People hate Elain for no reason

Some of y’all don’t like feminine traits and it shows

We know less about Eris and Helion but people don’t call them boring. Why would rejecting femininity make Elain more interesting?

Elain has had a lot forced upon her

The main reason I believe most people love Gwyn so much is to get Azriel away from Elain. It’s not a secret that Elain has been a widely hated character for years so suddenly we get a new female who has a minimal amount of interactions with Azriel and BOOM. New ship that once again doesn’t make sense (just like Azriel x Emerie after ACOFAS)

Elain hasn’t done something so terrible for her to get this hate. At this point some of you are just being misogynistic and you don’t want to accept it. Don’t call yourselves feminists and then say bs like this, it’s embarrassing. She’s pretty and everyone agreed to hate on her

Just a personal feeling, but I feel like a lot of the Elain hate stems from internalized misogyny. That to be a strong female lead, you need to pick up a sword and fight. That to be strong, you need to adapt traditionally masculine traits

Elain is feminine. She is beautiful. She loves to bake and garden. She is docile, quiet, observant, and a people-pleaser. All traditionally feminine traits. Yet for some reason, she’s like the worst in these people’s eyes?

I think also maybe a lot of people can’t relate to her femininity? That her being so beautiful and quiet doesn’t allow for the people who dislike her not to self-insert? Most of the hate stems from people not wanting Elain to be with Azriel. It’s mean, but maybe the people who hate Elain literally just can’t self-insert if they have a story and that’s why they’re vehemently against it?

Poor Elain. The Cauldron dealt her a bad deal. Upon emerging as Fae, she is immediately declared by Lucien as his mate, never mind that she was already engaged to a prick. Her love life is not good

It blows my mind how they really think that they can compare all the shit that Elain gets with some dumb jokes about Gwyn on Twitter (and yes, the “hate” towards her started mostly because Elriels are clapping back, it was bound to happen)

I would think of it as anti-feminist with Elain and Lucien because she has consistently stated that she does not want him so if she was forced to embrace the bond that would be taking away her right to have a choice but with Az she feels comfortable around so if they were mates then Elain would be happy and feel safe which again should be the priority for women to feel safe in their relationships with anything and to not be forced into any type of situation aka the mating bond in this

Category 3: Coddle Elain’s character

Elain has value the way she is, in all her domestic girly glory. Not every character has to be badass

We don’t speak of Elain’s flaws frequently because everyone else already speaks badly of her, mainly in an unfair way

There is definitely something deeper going on with Elain but by no means will she ever be evil or any less feminine. That goes against everything we already know about her

It’s ok to critique Elain because she needs growth but y’all keep forgetting the shit her and her sisters went through

The last “bad” thing Elain did in ACOTAR was not help Feyre when they were impoverished and I’m tired of people acting like she’s a terrible character when it was their father’s responsibility. It happened 4 books ago and Feyre has forgiven both Nesta and Elain

Elain’s character and the evil Elain theory are a great example of the trend where people only consider female characters interesting if they reject femininity

We don’t know enough to hate Elain

Many people want Elain to turn evil (which in my opinion seems to come from a place of internalized misogyny)

However we don’t tend to talk about her faults, at least not publicly, as that has been, and still is, done to death, and I--personally, at least--find it much more fun to theorise about potentially interesting aspects of the overall plot, than dwell on negatives

And ultimately, I would be shocked if Elain has a more karmically-charged story than Nesta, considering that Elain’s “wrongs” are so much less severe and bad than Nesta’s, and Elain has already apologized for them (or paid the price in other ways, like through what Graysen did)

I guess I also think Elain has suffered and been punished enough. I hope her story is about finding hope in terrible situations, and learning to love her new life, and choosing her own path after everything that has been done to her. I don’t think she needs to be punished anymore or face any additional trauma

Also, why is she being judged on her decisions as a human at all? Fae are monsters to humans! They enslaved them for thousands of years, and the Wall was erected to keep them out

Like I’m sorry, but think Elain would want to leave her ONLY FAMILY AND FRIENDS for the Spring Court where she has no one because--oh look, lots of flowers!--is the craziest thing I have ever heard

Her sisters are in the Night Court. Her nephew is in the Night Court. Her closest friends (Nuala and Cerridwen) are in the Night Court. Her love interest is in the Night Court. Her extended family is in the Night Court. Her home is in the Night Court

SJM isn’t going to keep two sisters together and split up the third. Especially not keep Feyre and Nesta together and separate Elain. They were either all going to end up in separate places, or together. Not 2 here and 1 there

Compared to the other female characters in the series, Elain is the only character whose femalehood is at the center of conversations; this is because arguments in the Elriel fandom fixate on it when discussing her character. While Elain, Feyre, Nesta, and Mor are all representations of white womanhood and white beauty, Elain epitomizes the most fragile version of white womanhood. It’s easy to blame society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters when it comes to the discourse surrounding Elain’s character because it: falls in line with the fixation on Elain’s femalehood to silence opposing viewpoints; is a simplistic explanation that fails to tackle the underlying issues with Elain as a character, the same issues that are downplayed in-universe; absolves Elain of her wrongdoings; prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions within the series; and diminishes the impact Elain’s actions and inactions have on those around her. It’s not that Elain is hated in the fandom because she’s a traditional female character; it’s the fact that arguments in the Elriel fandom deflect a critical analysis of Elain’s character because she’s a traditional female character who embodies the ideal white woman in need of protection. White fans and white-aligned fans of color, especially white women, have a tendency to vehemently defend, gatekeep, and coddle white female characters in fandom; this makes it difficult for other fans to engage in critical discussions about these white female characters because they’re viewed as flawless and all around perfect characters despite evidence to the contrary. Since Elain is viewed positively by the other characters in the series, it has rendered her character untouchable to any perceived slight or criticism in fandom discussions because those negative opinions challenge what has been said about her character thus far. And as a result, her character has been placed on a pedestal and implicitly hailed as the epitome of white womanhood; and when she’s criticized, it’s seen as a direct attack against white womanhood. Arguments in the Elriel fandom: exploit feminist language and perpetuate white feminist tactics under the guise of defending Elain’s character; center Elain in conversations about female oppression in the ACOTAR world and uphold white feminist ideologies in their critique of ACOTAR’s patriarchal society; and use the fragile white woman narrative to victimize Elain in Lucien’s presence, playing into racial biases that are associated with white supremacy’s defense of white womanhood.

Feminism is a social movement that seeks to promote equality and equity to all genders, and feminists work toward eradicating gender disparities on a macro-level, in addition to challenging gender biases on a micro-level. As feminism became more mainstream, a flat and oversimplified version of feminism emerged: mainstream feminism. The mainstream feminist movement is meant to represent all women, but rarely does it center conversations around issues that concern most women. The problem with mainstream feminism is that it’s just a popularized version of white feminism. White feminism has relied extensively on an individualized understanding of women’s oppression, exclusively from the lens of privileged white women. White feminism only focuses on the oppression experienced by white, able-bodied, affluent, educated, cishet women; and it views gender as the key mode of privileged white women’s oppression, isolated from the privileges granted by their other social identities. White women can be and are oppressed under the patriarchy but only because they are women; their identity as women does not exempt them from the privileges granted by their whiteness. The term white feminist does not mean any feminist who is white, but refers to feminists who prioritize the concerns of privileged white women as though they are representative of all women. However, the term is not exclusive to white people. Because white feminism is so pervasive, people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds often buy into white feminism, believing that if they work hard enough, they may be able to reap its rewards.

Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism only recognizes the identity of being a woman, assumes that all women share common experiences of gender oppression, fails to address other social identities in relation to overlapping systems of oppression, and disregards privilege in relation to various social identities. Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism is palatable because it doesn’t seek to challenge the systems in place, instead its goal is to succeed within them. Essentially, mainstream feminism and white feminism are extensions of performative feminism. Performative feminism is a type of performative activism that’s used to describe feminist views that are surface level and solely for the benefit of one type of person. It’s a pretense which often has nothing to do with genuine activism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom normalize and promote performative feminism because the topic of feminism is only referenced when discussing Elain. This indicates that these arguments are engaging in disingenuous discourse to push a personal agenda within the ACOTAR fandom, and it becomes more apparent when they use white feminist tactics to shut down opposing viewpoints:

White feminists weaponize and exploit feminist language to silence the opinions of other women, especially when they’re called out for their problematic behaviors

White feminists use the phrase “Women supporting women” to defend other white feminists who exhibit problematic behaviors instead of holding them accountable 

White feminists weaponize phrases like “Women supporting women” and “You just hate women” to attack other women who disagree with them on any given topic

White feminists use phrases like “All women face challenges” and “Stop pitting women against each other” to sidestep conversations about privilege

White feminists divert conversations away from privilege and towards the Trauma Olympics to equate their struggles to the oppression of marginalized people 

White feminists skirt around the realities of other forms of oppression and discrimination, downplaying the experiences of marginalized people

White feminists diminish or ignore the ways in which gender oppression affects other marginalized people

White feminists paint those they harmed as aggressive, mean, or divisive when confronted with the ways they have harmed a marginalized group

White feminists deflect criticism by focusing on the anger or emotions being expressed rather than the issue that is being discussed, invalidating the concerns of marginalized people

White feminists speak over marginalized voices in an attempt to sound “woke”

White feminists get defensive and insist there’s no way they could be a part of the problem because of what they’ve done to help marginalized groups already 

White feminists say they don’t see color in an attempt to obscure racial issues that need to be addressed

White feminists center and victimize themselves in conversations about racism, which derails necessary conversations from taking place

White feminists who are white weaponize the intersectionality of their race and gender to avoid accountability

Feminism is not meant to be approached from an individualistic perspective nor is it only about addressing the experiences of privileged white women, it involves addressing the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality, (dis)ability, and other social identities as well; and it involves addressing how these social identities relate to privilege. Moreover, feminism is not about women upholding complete loyalty to other women because of a shared gender identity, and to claim that it does implies that women should be held to different emotional standards than men. If men are able to dislike and criticize other individual men, real or fictional, without their characters being compromised, why aren’t women granted that same privilege?

It’s clear that SJM set up the ACOTAR world to mirror a patriarchal society, and that the imbalance of power between males and females stems from sexism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom analyze the ACOTAR world through a feminist lens to show how ACOTAR’s patriarchal society, to which the mating bond is innately tied, contributes to female oppression and limits their agency. When choice and free will are emphasized as part of Elain’s arc, they imply that Elain, through the mating bond, experiences female oppression under ACOTAR’s patriarchal society because of her identity as a female with that identity being the focal point of her oppression in the world. Elain is one of the most privileged characters in the ACOTAR world: she’s High Fae; she’s the sister of the High Lord and High Lady of the Night Court, which gives her access to wealth and political influence because of that connection; she’s able-bodied; she was magically blessed by the Cauldron; and she lives in Velaris, a place that grants females autonomy and power because of the beliefs of Rhysand and Feyre. Arguments in the Elriel fandom trivialize female oppression in the ACOTAR world because they disregard the fact that Elain’s privileges prevent her from experiencing female oppression in the same way that other marginalized females in the world do. The mating bond being one such example because those around Elain are not forcing the bond on her, instead they’re allowing Elain to reach a decision about the bond for herself; a privilege that other marginalized females in the world probably wouldn’t have. Just because Elain has endured hardships in her life and is a female in a patriarchal society, they do not erase the privileges she holds within the ACOTAR world. The failure to include Elain’s privileges in discussions about Elain being a female in a patriarchal society feeds into white feminist ideologies because white feminism operates from a very narrow perspective; it doesn’t take other intersecting identities into account when it examines gender oppression, leaving no room for discussions about privilege (or lack thereof) in relation to those intersecting identities. When discussing oppression in hierarchical societies, it’s imperative that privilege is also included in the conversation because privilege and oppression are not mutually exclusive; they equally affect the ways in which people navigate those societies through their social identities.

Rather than attributing Elain’s uncomfortability to her new life as a Fae female or the mating bond itself and her trauma to the Cauldron, the King of Hybern, or Ianthe, they’re placed on Lucien to cast his character in a negative light. Moreover, fandom discussions portray Lucien as a possessive character to further emphasize Elain’s discomfort despite the inaccuracy of this characterization in canon. Arguments in the Elriel fandom play into racial biases when it comes to Lucien (a male character of color) because they mischaracterize his character in order to victimize Elain (a white female character), placing her character in the role of the white damsel in distress. In Western society, the concept of womanhood has been conceptualized from a Eurocentric perspective with femininity and feminine attributes favoring white women. It’s the idea that a certain type of femininity is only inherent to white women as they are seen as the embodiment of an ideal womanhood. White womanhood has been a symbol of innocence and purity, and white women have been viewed as fragile beings in need of protection. The reason white womanhood functions within white supremacy is because it’s the same idea that has motivated white men to kill and beat black and brown men. The so-called protection of white women has been used as a justification for the horrific violence committed by white men because black and brown men were stereotyped as aggressive and seen as a threat to the virtue of white women. The white damsel in distress trope considered white women as worthy of protection because of their perceived innocence and purity; women of color were not granted that same treatment because they did not fit into the ideal image of womanhood. Over the years, this trope became a means for white women to exercise limited power in a patriarchal society with white women weaponizing their status as the damsel much to the detriment of black and brown men. It’s through the white damsel in distress trope that white supremacy sustains its dominance in Western society. The misrepresentation of characters of color in fandom, the dismissal of their importance to the overall story, and using them as tools in arguments centered around white characters are the foundation of fandom racism; they’re examples of how racism moves silently in fandom spaces. Instead of examining their behavior and taking constructive criticism from fans of color, white fans will often double down on their bigotry and center their uncomfortability in the conversation when confronted with their complicity in fandom racism. White fans expect fans of color to swallow fandom racism in its many forms in order to not ruin the experience of fandom, dismissing the fact that racism is prevalent in nearly every aspect of society. This mentality ensures that no one is held accountable for the harm they caused and alienates fans of color in fandom spaces.

To reiterate what I mentioned in my first think piece: terms like “oppression”, “the right to choose”, “feminist”, “feminism”, “anti-feminist”, “anti-feminism”, “internalized misogyny”, “misogyny”, “misogynist”, “sexist”, “sexism”, “racist”, “racism”, “classist”, “classism”, “discrimination”, and “patriarchy” are all used in specific ways to draw attention to the plight of marginalized people and challenge those who deny the existence of systems of oppression. Yet these words and their meanings can be twisted to attack, exclude, and invalidate people with differing opinions on any given topic. When social justice and feminist terms are thrown around antagonistically and carelessly to push a personal agenda, it becomes clear that these terms are being used to engage in disingenuous discourse and pursue personal validation rather than being used out of any deep-seated conviction to dismantle systemic oppression. Being an ally, activist, or feminist is not an identity, it’s a practice. It requires: ongoing self-reflection; holding ourselves accountable; listening to marginalized people; educating ourselves; dismantling implicit biases; challenging those around us who are exhibiting problematic behaviors; and action behind our words.

It’s important to be aware of the language that is used within the fandom when defending or critiquing characters and ships. It’s also important to question how an argument is framed and why it’s framed the way that it is to critically examine the intent behind that argument: is it used as a tool to push a personal agenda that reinforces problematic behaviors, or is it used as an opportunity to share, learn, enlighten, and educate?

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Tagging: @spell-cleavers @bookofmirth @m0bulidae @ilya-boltagon

[madmaddyenby]

/rp /dsmp

ok so- c!tommy. we are all aware he’s traumatized, and experiences ptsd from being in traumatic experiences, this is basically fact.  while i’d like to talk how c!tommy experiences ptsd, i’d like to bring up a thing i haven’t seen mentioned a lot when it comes to c!tommy and his trauma- c-ptsd.  also known as complex-ptsd.   it occurs when someone experiences something traumatizing for a period of time.

[image description: A screenshot of text with the words “CPTSD stands for Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is a mental health condition in which a person might experience intense PTSD symptoms that coincide with other mental issues. CPTSD occurs in people who have been subjected to on going traumatizing experiences”. end description]

which, as we know, the exile arc fits the description of “ongoing traumatizing experiences” pretty fucking well.  the exile was basically just two weeks of trauma.  for a lot of reasons too, there was dream abusing tommy, tommy being isolated, tommys own depression/suicidal thoughts/bad mindset in general.   this would all be considered a ongoing traumatizing experience(s).  

ptsd is very similar to c-ptsd in how it develops, but ptsd occurs after one singular traumatizing event . (by the way, the event doesnt have to be life or death, it could be something like witnessing or hearing about a shocking event!!!)

symptoms of c-ptsd overlap with ptsd a good lot of the time, due to them both being trauma disorders.  however, there are a few differences.  here r some symptoms of c-ptsd, alot of which are ptsd symptoms that alot ofpeople with c-ptsd experience as well

reliving the traumatic experience

avoiding certain situations 

changes in beliefs and feelings about yourself and others

hyperarousal (jitteriness, being on alert, etc)

somatic symptoms (physical symptoms with no underlying cause)

lack of emotional regulation 

change in consciousness

negative self-perception

difficulty with relationships

distorted reception of abuser

loss of system of meanings

now, i’ll go over which of these fit our boy c!tommy, and how they fit for some of them atleast.  i will only be talking about the things that are a result from c-ptsd, but also c-ptsd works where it coincides with other mental illnesses a person has so.  its also important to note that within a person these symptoms might not stay the same over time, and not everyone who has c-ptsd or ptsd is going to experience it the same.   (so not talking abt how pain affects him after dying in the prison, though that is a clear sign of ptsd) 

reliving the traumatic experience

tommy’s done this with exile a few times, when revisiting logstedshire, when he saw the craters in logstedshire, when visiting dream in prison, when during the disc finale dream dug the hole and told him to put his armour in, etc etc, he’s even described himself as being trembly in the fingers near plain biomes, while visting logsted he mentioned how shaky it made him to be there, and when he visited logsted one time he had an immediate reaction to seeing a hole in the ground that came off as him reliving it. flashbacks come in from sensations during a traumatic event, like sight, feeling, emotion, etc, etc.  it seems like with these he’s experiencing more of a reliving the emotions kind of thing. 

avoiding certain situations 

i was originally not gonna include this one, but thinking about it, he kind of does in a way.   this symptom also includes keeping yourself preoccupied to avoid thinking about it, which is something c!tommy seems to do alot.  with focusing on building the hotel, and doing tasks, or grinding for supplies instead of actually thinking about it.  

changes in beliefs and feelings about yourself and others

c!tommy uh. does this a lot.  a lot of it stems from how during exile tommy was isolated and made to believe no one cared for him, and even if that wasn’t true c!tommy never really got much closure on that.  hes not really trusting ppl that b4 were really close to him, tubbo n ranboo for example

lack of emotional regulation

this can also be described as uncontrollable feelings.  this is the one i’ve wanted to talk about the most i think- because this is really fits c!tommy.  he tends to lash out alot, for example burning the flower c!ranboo gave him, there are a bunch more examples of this that include him yelling at others, that one time when he spleefed c!jack 

negative self-perception

yeah.  theres a few examples of this one, the one that first comes to mind is that time during the green festival where he was talking about how he was worse than everyone he didn’t wanna be (including his abuser, c!dream...) .  theres now when he was building his tower by the prison when he was saying he couldn’t use the cobble because it was too him, and people didnt like the cobble. alot of this i think comes from c!dream making him feel basically worthless in exile :(

difficulty with relationships

  Yeah. um.  Alot for this one!!! The first to come to mind is c!tubbo.  c!tommy and c!tubbos relationship is very very wonky, especially considering recent events with tommy feeling like he is being replaced with c!ranboo.  (which he isnt by the way! he just feels as though, which is a valid feeling for him to have :]) .  another person that comes to mind is c!ranboo.  he’s even mentioned how his and ranboos relationship goes back and forth quite alot.  its not very surprising to see that he has difficulty with relationships especially considering a lot of the reason that the exile affected him so badly was because he felt so alone and was so isolated from his friends.  another thing that comes to mind, is when he made c!sam sign that contract promising hat he’d be his best friend and protect him.  theres most likely way more that can be said here, but this is the first stuff that comes to mind.  

distorted reception of abuser

um... yeah.  this one.  this can also be described as , “ becoming preoccupied with the relationship between you and your abuser. It can also include preoccupation with revenge or giving your abuser complete power over your life. “  which is um.  yeah.  c!tommy.  he’s mentioned how whenever he’s around c!dream he feels like hes conditioned to be his friend (which. yea . he was .).  right after he left logstedshire this was very very prominent, he was the biggest c!dream apologist around (/j), saying things like “dream didnt do anything wrong” and even explaining how he wasnt sure about things when it comes to c!dream, that his mind became flip floppy whenever he thought about him.   right now, hes focused on getting back at c!dream, not fully for revenge, mainly for his friends and how he doesnt want c!dream to go around killing and reviving everyone, but the point still stands.  (this all makes me extra sad because he had gone to the prison the second time in the first place to get closure :(( )

loss of system of meanings

Systems of meaning refer to your religion or beliefs about the world.  This can also refer to getting a strong sense of hopelessness or despair about the world, which as of late mainly c!tommy seems to have.  mainly referencing in his stream where he visited dreams bunker, he was asking what the point was of finding things that made him happy if dream was just going to get out the prison and destroy it.  theres also a few things that also go with this, in one stream while he burnt down ponks lemon tree for sam nook he said  "thats still decaying, but yknow, arent we all." and that one time when he gave that hotel invitation to c!techno he was like “ahahha we could die tomorrow anyway” 

-

its also important to note that, “Any type of long-term trauma, over several months or years, can lead to CPTSD. However, it seems to appear frequently in people who’ve been abused by someone who was supposed to be their caregiver or protector. “ Which is.. fairly accurate in c!tommy’s situation.  c!dream might’ve not been a caregiver or protector necessarily but he was still someone that was looking after him yknow? 

there are most likely more things than what i layed out that show that c!tommy most likely also has cptsd, however this is just the stuff that i thought up :] add to the post if you’d like to!

(also this isn’t saying that c!tommy doesnt have ptsd, he had both ptsd and c-ptsd. also i am not an expert about ptsd, cptsd, or mental health in general, if i got any information wrong let me know)

[sokkastyles]

Abused kids are often not aware of or have trouble regulating their own emotions but tend to, conversely, be hyper aware of and tapped into the emotions of others. This is a survival mechanism in people who grow up with an abusive parent, because any sudden changes in the mood of the parent could indicate danger. See the scenes of Zuko when he is with Ozai, particularly in "The Awakening" and in the flashback to the war meeting in "The Phoenix King," when Zuko carefully measures his responses to his father's praise, because even accepting praise is dangerous and could be a trap.

Although Zuko is often oblivious in social interactions, he actually shows a pretty keen insight when it comes to mediating and understanding what the others need once he joins the gaang. He figures out that the loss of his firebending is connected to his change of coat, he helps Aang overcome his fear of fire at the same time he overcomes his own mental blocks with regard to his element, and he realizes that Sokka will go on a foolhardy mission to rescue his father no matter how much Zuko warns him that it's dangerous, so he resolves to go with him. Particularly in "The Southern Raiders" he pretty astutely figures out that the source of Katara's anger was her unresolved feelings about her mother's murder, and knew how to help her. He also shows keen insight into what Katara needs. Aang, though he means well, responds to Katara with moralizing that just makes her angrier and more determined to go her own way. Zuko offers her the means and lets her lead the way, and defends her to Aang after Katara had made it clear she did not agree with Aang. Zuko, in fact, gets angry at Aang on Katara's behalf, and interestingly, Katara, the person who regularly told off anyone who ever said a bad word to Aang and who, a few episodes ago, threatened to kill Zuko himself if he ever hurt Aang, says nothing in response to Zuko’s sarcastic words to Aang, only thanks Aang for understanding in a tone that implies that she doesn’t think Aang understands at all.

Zuko also seems to be aware of the tension between Katara and Aang at the end of the episode, as he purposefully leaves Katara on Ember Island and goes to speak to Aang himself about what happened when they confronted Yon Rha. This implies not only that Zuko knew Katara needed space to process her feelings, but that he knew that Aang and Katara would need time away from each other after the angry way they parted, and it also implies that Zuko wanted to explain Katara's perspective to Aang, fearing that Aang would misunderstand. Aang actually misunderstands anyway, wrongly assuming that Katara had forgiven Yon Rha, and Katara angrily tells him that she will never forgive her mother's murderer, but does forgive Zuko.

Zuko tells Aang that he was right about Katara, although that is contradicted by what Katara just said and the events of the episode. I know some people theorize that this was a result of a lack of unity in the writing, but I also don't think it's out of character for Zuko to say this, even though he also ultimately disagrees with Aang's stance on violence. Zuko is again playing a mediator role and playing both sides a bit, because the episode positions him between Aang and Katara, but he also leaves Aang with a challenge to his moral absolutism.

So I don't think it's a stretch to assume that in the very next episode, Zuko was also picking up on some tension between Aang and Katara when he sat between them. I'm not sure he knows about Aang's romantic feelings for Katara - although he would when he hears his actor on stage call Katara "the Avatar's girl" and sees Aang nod. But he does seem to pick up on Aang's irritation being about more than just a taken seat, as he responds with unprompted anger. Zuko also takes note of Aang’s increasing anger throughout the play, with a concerned expression on his face. 

Remember what I said about abused kids being hypersensitive to the changing moods of others? It might be that, or Zuko might be feeling anxious about his role in the play and feeling like he doesn’t deserve forgiveness, or it might be that Zuko is hyper aware of the conflict between Katara and Aang carried over from the last episode to this one.

Actually, this shot is particularly interesting because the rest of the gaang is laughing at the portrayal of Toph, including Katara, until Toph shows that she’s pleased by the play’s portrayal of her. Then we see Katara frown, her attention shifting to Aang. 

Katara is unhappy that her attempt to get even with Toph backfired, then when she notices Aang as the camera pans to her left, she looks even more unhappy. Then we see the shot above of Zuko looking at Aang with clear concern over the situation. I’m pretty sure that Zuko is aware that something is going on between Katara and Aang at this point. Especially since Aang’s anger at being played by a girl (which is made worse by Toph’s happiness at being played by a boy) is linked to his insecurity about his relationship with Katara, and the play keeps making jokes about it, meant for us to feel sorry for Aang for being put in the “little brother” zone.

I think Zuko was generally anxious going into the play. You can see when they walk in that he has his hood pulled up, to hide his face, because he's aware there's a chance someone will recognize him. So even before the play starts, with its incriminating and humiliating portrayal of him, he is probably already on alert and wants to draw as little attention to himself as possible. Aang's outburst is the kind of thing that would draw attention, and Zuko tries to minimize the attention by insisting that Aang just sit next to him. Zuko also reacts with defensive anger, as he is wont to do when he is anxious or upset, which of course would have the opposite effect from drawing attention away from them. But Aang acquiesces in frustration, and Katara, interestingly, notices the dispute, but just like when Zuko defended her to Aang in "The Southern Raiders," says nothing. Katara also is facing away, fidgety, and looks unhappy while the confrontation is going on. This is also consistent with (and probably contributed to) the way Katara reacts to Aang’s pushiness and accusations later on.

Zuko spends much of the back part of season three physically close to Katara, which is a visual way for the animators to show how close they have grown. It’s not necessarily an indication of romantic Zutara, although there is nothing wrong with interpreting it that way, and I find it hilarious how threatened some people are by shippers gushing over the idea that he wanted to sit next to her, particularly in this episode because this episode actually intentionally plays up the “love triangle” for the purposes of getting the audience to sympathize with Aang and root for him to “get the girl.” Regardless of whether we interpret it in a romantic context, I think it is a good indication of how Zuko feels about Katara once he has gotten her forgiveness. Given Zuko’s social ineptitude, it would make sense that he would be likely to want to stick close to the people he felt closest to, especially in situations where he is surrounded by potentially hostile strangers. Witness his behavior in “The Beach,” where he spent most of the time awkwardly glued to Mai’s side and it was when he was separated from Mai at the party that he ran into trouble with the other partygoers, who make fun of him. That might explain why Zuko, although he comes from the opposite direction when they enter the theater as everyone else does, walks all the way down the end of the aisle to sit next to Katara. 

It might also explain why he wants to sit in between Katara and Aang, as these are the two people who he now feels closest to. It also is very likely that he is subconsciously picking up on the tension between Katara and Aang, which comes to a head later in this very episode. It’s worth noting that Zuko is often positioned physically between Katara and Aang throughout this episode, which is meant to communicate to the audience Aang’s anxiety over Katara not returning his feelings (and Zuko plays an indirect part in that, or at least, his stage actor does).

Zuko is also positioned narratively between Aang and Katara as a mediator and comfort to Katara after her fight with Aang in the very next episode, “The Phoenix King,” in which Zuko tells Katara to let Aang figure things out for himself when he runs away after yelling at Katara.

So no, I don’t think the deliberate positioning of Zuko in between Aang and Katara is a coincidence, nor is it “lol Zuko is clueless!” I’m actually very tired of seeing people talk about how clueless Zuko is, especially since a lot of his reactions come from trauma. Even if Zuko didn’t pick up on Aang’s romantic feelings towards Katara he very obviously picks up on and reacts to and interacts with the dynamic between them. And it’s very telling that certain fans will complain about the “infantilization” of Zuko when it’s traits that make him seem sympathetic, but then talk about a traumatized abuse survivor as if they’re completely incompetent.

[statickids]

So I do want to say, while I would like to counter some of your arguments on what's canon and what's not, it was pretty enlightening to read your response. I did not read the original post as disparaging to Steve at all-- probably because I've seen multiple other posts outwardly bashing other characters (Jonathan, Nancy, even Robin somehow) in favor of propping Steve up so my perception may be a little skewed lmao. And while I still do agree with what most of that post says on the surface, I do now see how people have taken issue with the tone of it, but I'll touch on that later.

Additionally, it's a major pet peeve of mine when people act like pointing out that Steve comes from privileged background is somehow offensive to his character, or problematic in general. I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that prior to Season 1, Steve is in a significantly easier place than Jonathan is, both economically and socially. Or that Lonnie Byers is hands down a worse father than Mr. Harrington, at least from everything we've seen on the show. I think it's easily possible to make both observations without putting down Steve, or disregarding anyone's trauma. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of fans fall into the trap of using Jonathan's background as a way to paint Jonathan as better than Steve. Which is not only horribly messed up, but also does a disservice to both characters and their fans. I do not condone it at all, and I don't support it if I see it. However, I don't think that is an excuse to act as Steve doesn't have privilege at all, or to act like he's more maligned in society than he is, which is kind of commonplace within this fandom.

(And for the record, this isn't just in comparison to Jonathan- fandom tends to prioritize Steve's pain before anyone else's, including characters like Lucas who have suffered blatant racism, and then get mad when people point out that and act as if it's somehow problematic. Case in point- Billy attacking the kids at the Byers house in Season 2, but most of fandom focusing on Steve getting beaten up rather than the fact that Lucas and Max were the most victimized in that situation (and don't even get me started on the people using that scene as fuel for H*rringgrove). And again- I love Steve. I do. I'm not just saying that as an excuse to bash him because I secretly hate him, he has plenty of trauma on his own that I would love to discuss and unpack with anyone who will listen, and it's just as valid as Jonathan's or anyone else's. It just gets tiring to see how often fans over-emphasize his pain at the expense of everyone else's, and I don't blame people for getting kind of sick of it. Especially Jonathan fans, who probably get the most pushback due to Steve and Jonathan being pitted against each other in the show. It's the double-edged sword of being THE fan-favorite, unfortunately.)

I hope that makes sense as to where I was initially coming from in regards to the post and what some of the responses were. Now, let's take a look at the Post That Started All This, and your analysis because I have some thoughts (tm).

"Steve getting a summer job at 18 bc his dad made him vs Jonathan working since he was really young to support his family." Steve canonically worked as a lifeguard before season three. "since he was really young" is clearly engaging sympathy towards Jonathan and away from Steve. We don't know at what age Jonathan started working.

That's fair. It's true, we don't know exactly when Jonathan started working- though I'd argue that he's at least sixteen in season one, and that's pretty young to be working to pay bills. It's not necessarily a stretch to assume he's been working since he was young due to the Byers' poor financial situation, but it's true we don't know for sure. I overlooked that little tidbit initially because the overall point was that Jonathan works to support his family while Steve doesn't, but you're not wrong to argue semantics and I do agree that adding that detail creates extra sympathy towards Jonathan. We don't know what age Steve was working as a lifeguard, or why, but it certainly wasn't to pay bills. Which isn't Steve's fault- he shouldn't have to worry about that to begin with.

"Steve having all of his needs met vs Jonathan having to help pay bills." Again it's an issue with tone. The above statement is not untrue from the knowledge we have on screen. It is phrased and contrasted to draw sympathy towards Jonathan.

Again, fair enough. You're right that it's not untrue from what we see, so I didn't really look at it much at first. And now that I am, and we're looking at this post with a greater lens, I'd like to argue that it's implied that Steve's needs weren't actually all met. He says outright that in the future he wants to have a big family in Season 4, and throughout the show he's portrayed to be an only child and distant from his parents. The implications are pretty clear.

"Steve not going to college bc he didn’t get in vs Jonathan not going bc of his guilt and anxiety about leaving his family." Truly, this one in particular was one that pissed me off the most. Again, it absolutely is painting Jonathan as a "sad uwu boy" while also (unintentionally or not) painting Steve's inability to get into college as something to disparage upon. This also has nothing to do with privilege??? If that were the case Steve would've gotten into a school undeservingly. I think that in general the way the show itself is pretty gross when discussing Steve's intelligence. That absolutely reflects upon the reading fans takeaway but it doesn't make it any less bad taste to act like his reason for not going into college is lesser than Jonathan's reasoning. Also, wasn't Jonathan still planning to go to community college with Argyle in Lenora??? So??? He's still making plans to go to school.

Again, now that I'm reading this part from your perspective- I see your point as to how the phrasing paints Steve in a worse light. That being said, the reason Steve didn't get into college is because he got poor grades and gave up on his applications. He didn't put in the work, and was disgruntled when his dad got mad at him and made him work over the summer instead. His reasons for not going do actually have a little bit to do with privilege, though that doesn't make him a bad person- he's young, he has plenty of time to decide to go to community college or reapply somewhere else. I also agree that the show doesn't give Steve much credit in regards to his intelligence, they tend to paint him as the dumb one which... isn't great. School grades aren't a good measure of intelligence in the slightest, but that's a whole separate discussion.

And you're right, Jonathan isn't giving up college entirely, but worth noting is that he is essentially giving up his relationship with Nancy in order to stay with his family by not going to Emerson with her. There's also no mention of him going to NYU, which Season 1 made a point of saying at some point has been his dream since he was a kid. So either we can assume he also gave up on that dream for the sake of his family, or the writers just forgot lol.

"Steve smoking weed for fun vs Jonathan smoking it to cope." And here we get to the one that pissed me off and actually genuinely and truly disgusted me. The whole reason I decided to be a cunt towards the op. This is absolutely not canonical and is just a headcanon. We do not know why either of them smoke weed. (Steve is also not necessarily a weed smoker within canon. He makes a joke that would have very much been the kinda thing he saw in anti-drug campaigns. I do think he smokes but again. He's explicitly making a joke.) As someone with substance abuse issues and a family full of addiction issues the way that this is phrased as though Steve smoking weed for fun (again, not canonical) is somehow lesser or more morally wrong than Jonathan smoking it to cope is a truly disgusting sentiment.

So, uh- please don't tear my head off, but Jonathan smoking weed to cope is definitely more canon than headcanon.

In Season 4, while hanging out with Argyle, Jonathan is venting to him about his relationship issues with Nancy, directly linking everything back to the stress his family has gone through throughout the show, as well as his childhood trauma related to his dad. Argyle's response is to tell him to smoke some weed- and Jonathan does. He literally dives headfirst into Argyle's van to do so. In that moments, he smokes weed directly as a way to deal with his anxiety and the baggage he is carrying.

And yes, we only explicitly see this one instance where it happens. It's not explicitly stated that Jonathan regularly smokes just to cope. But... doesn't it make more sense that he does, rather than that moment just being a one-off occurrence and the rest of the time he's always just smoking for fun? Does that make sense with his character? Isn't there a definite implication that that's what's happening? The only time we see him high in Season 4 is as a direct result of smoking his anxieties away. And later on, when the Cali gang are running from the government and trying to bury the secret agent guy in the desert, and Argyle is freaking out? Jonathan does the same thing- encourages him to have a joint to calm him down. And Argyle listens to him. This is clearly a pattern in their relationship.

And you're absolutely right in that even if Jonathan was just smoking weed for fun- it doesn't matter. It doesn't make him better or worse than Steve. My family has dealt with addiction issues too, so trust me when I say that I get it. I just wanted to point out that, at least in that one moment, it is in fact canonical that Jonathan uses weed to cope.

"Steve’s ‘asshole’ Dad vs Jonathan‘s abusive Dad." This disregards Steve's own words with their use of quotations. Also assumes quantification of abuse and/or neglect (or overall lack of care) as something to be measured against one another. It's not the fucking Olympics.

I don’t like comparing characters in that regard either, but I said before- from what we've seen in the show, Lonnie Byers is a significantly worse father than Steve's dad, and I don't think it's trivializing abuse or neglect to pointing that out on its own. Steve's parents are pretty much both nonentities, and while we can assume that they're emotionally neglectful based on what we've seen on screen and that their neglect has profoundly impacted Steve, we have no reason to believe that they're as horrible as Lonnie. Steve at the very least feels comfortable enough to go to his mother to ask for a job reference for Robin towards the end of Season 3 when they're jobhunting, and that Steve's dad at least cares enough about making Steve a functional member of society to make him get the Scoops job so that he's at least doing something. Granted, Steve's parents still come across as assholes, but there's absolutely no indication in canon that they're as bad as Lonnie, who emotionally abused both his sons, had no qualms of physically manhandling Jonathan, and used Will's supposed death in order to try to manipulate Joyce for money. In the same vein, we can also say Lonnie isn't as horrible as Brenner, who kidnapped Eleven, had her tortured under his care, and made her entire life hell. Saying that one is worse than the other doesn't automatically create a Suffering Olympics- there are different forms of abuse that affect their victims in different ways. But abuse shouldn't be measured as a way to bring specific victims down. I also do agree that the use of quotation marks could indicate some level of condescension on OP's part when mentioning Steve’s perception of his dad, which again I didn’t pick up on before and agree isn’t great.

"Steve being excited about his future kids vs Jonathan‘s fear of turning into his Dad." If we can extrapolate that Jonathan's fears are founded in not turning into his father then we can also extrapolate that Steve's desire to be a good dad also stems from having a father he does not want to be like. (Jonathan also never expressly states that he doesn't want to be like his father so... This is also technically a headcanon though I will say its one founded in reality and not just pulling things out of thin air.)

Again, I don't think you could necessarily call Jonathan's fear of becoming his father a headcanon, even if he doesn't explicitly state it. He directly compares his relationship with Nancy to his parents' relationship, so I think it's pretty easy to infer that he doesn't want to be like his father and treat Nancy the way Lonnie treated Joyce. Once again, the implication is pretty obvious. Granted, he doesn't say much about kids, but he does discuss his and Nancy's future and the possibility of it turning sour and mentions the possibility of their potential kids hating him, so there's that.

"Steve idealising Nancy as his wife vs Jonathan being terrified of holding her back." Having a dream is not the same thing as idolizing her as his wife. Jonathan is assumptive in the belief that Nancy would drop all of her dreams and run to go to community college with him in Lenora. He doesn't want her to give up on her dreams but he also has a very negative view of what their future is going to look like because of the trauma of his parents' terrible marriage. Again if we can extrapolate Jonathan's reasoning then we can absolutely make assumptions about Steve's own.

Steve absolutely idealizes Nancy to some degree, though not necessarily as his wife. He sees her at the reason he's changed, and flat-out tells her so. He's openly still crushing on her in Season 4, to the point that he shares his dream of having a big family with her. Ergo, we can conclude that there's at least some part of him that wants to share his dream with her. Which isn't necessarily wrong- he probably doesn't know what her dreams are at this point, and there isn't much indication they've been able to talk about it. Hopefully they'll get to have that talk in Season 5.

Jonathan assumes that Nancy would drop all of her dreams for him, yes, but he expresses that in the sense that he doesn't want that to happen. He doesn't want their relationship to sour, and holding Nancy from her dreams and her becoming bitter towards him as a result is a part of that. He pretty much outlines this when he's venting to Argyle.

"The audience forgiving Steve but not Jonathan." Speaking about an outside party. No way to be canonical. The audience largely forgives Jonathan for his actions. There are haters in both directions that will not let any of their past deeds go in a need to dunk on one to prop up their fave (which this post is doing by tonal indicators and, again, obfuscation of their statements to lean negatively one way and positively the other.) This is not something singluar to Jonathan at all. Steve is more POPULAR with the general audience because the Duffers allow him to be more wholly integrated into the narrative and backseat Jonathan. This is an issue with the writing that... very likely might harken back to Charlie Heaton's arrest over cocaine. No proof though but it makes sense. (I say let them all do coke idc)

I agree, there are haters on both sides. Though, at least from my perception, I feel like there is definitely more Jonathan hate than Steve hate, probably mostly because Steve is so popular. I feel like every time I see a Steve versus Jonathan post, someone inevitably brings up the stupid camera incident back in Season 1 (which I kind of blame the Duffers for more than anything else- judging by some of their comments, I'm not sure if they even thought that scene was all that bad in the first place. But that's a whole other topic.)

"Steve running from the cops vs Jonathan getting arrested." Nothing to do with privilege or moral character. Jonathan was also like blacked out in rage. The only reason Steve was able to run away was because Tommy had the sense to do so. Both Jonathan and Steve were so wrapped up in the fight that if Tommy hadn't been there then they both would've likely not gotten arrested. They would've been questioned and would've asked Steve (and possibly Jonathan) if he wanted to press charges. Jonathan unintentionally hit a cop which is why he was detained.

Fair enough. I don't really have anything to add, though I do feel as though Steve would have an easier time dealing with the cops due to his social standing than Jonathan would. Maybe that's part of what OP was trying to imply? Idk, maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate on this one.

"The audience loving Steve but hating or ignoring Jonathan." Again. This is not canon because this is not about canon events. This has nothing to do with privilege. The audience showing less care towards Jonathan is a fault of the Duffer's failure to give his character anything to do. The entire post is a bad-faith argument presenting itself about being about privilege when its really just trying to highlight Jonathan as better. This might not be intentional but through the manner of wording and the choices they make to describe events it absolutely comes off that way.

Again, not a lot to add. I feel like OP threw in the audience's perception of both Steve and Jonathan as a way to further emphasize how they were comparing them, and that's how I initially read it. At face-value, I view their statements as correct, but upon closer inspection I do agree that is does come across as disparaging towards Steve. I just didn't recognize it at first because again, if it's a post intending to bash Steve, it's pretty damn tame with it's bashing compared to what I've experienced in other fandoms.

I love both Steve and Jonathan. I think (if you ignore Steddie shippers lmfao) the fandom for the most part regards Steve and his actions through a canon lense.

To this I say... ehhh? I've come across some pretty terrible Steve takes from all different kinds of fans (though it's definitely become more prevalent since Season 4, smh), but that's probably just par for course for fandom-favorites, and honestly just fandom in general. It probably doesn't help that I'm kind of picky when it comes to Steve characterization lol.

Jonathan fans, however, are bereft of content regarding him and so a lot of the appreciation I do see is less about who he is and more about who they wish they got to see, or an idealization of the archetype that he's set up as in season one initially. And like I said I do think its because you guys are lacking in proper canon content for him. But, that doesn't make it less disingenuous.

I definitely agree, we are definitely lacking in good fandom content for Jonathan, and part of that is due to the lack of canon content. That being said- I do think we still get content, even if it's not explicit. The cast is massive, so the writers often have to rely on implications and show-don't-tell in order to fully get their story across. So I don't think it's inaccurate to takes these implications as canon. It's implied that Steve's parents suck, so we can take it that Steve's parents suck because there's nothing else to really go on. It's implied that Jonathan's afraid of becoming his father, so we can assume that he's afraid of becoming his father. We can take this logic and easily apply it to the rest of the show, and it's a perfectly valid way of interpreting the characters.

I think Jonathan Byers is a really interesting characters but so many of his fans project onto him so that he's unrecognizable from the guy we actually see on screen. If you divorce Jonathan from his actions and behavior then you're not really his fan, you're a fan of the idealized version of the trope he fulfilled in season one. To take a character away from the context of their canonical characterizations and try to write a metanalysis on them is to have already failed in your analysis. You cannot project head canons onto an analysis. Jonathan has been done a disservice by the show but the fans also do him a disservice by failing to acknowledge who he actually is as a person because if you accept the negative traits that DO exist within him then you can view him as a more fully realized and three dimensional characters.

But most Jonathan fans just want to be salty that Steve exists. Well, I want them to raw each other silly while still hating each other. You can go back to making up things to be mad over that are explicitly not canon.