#so if John really did offer to make Kiriona his cavalier

[mayasaura]

Kiriona said that if she killed Alecto, she would be John's cavalier. That's so interesting to me, because it's the one relationship we've never seen in a necrocav pairing. We've had siblings, lovers, cousins, best friends, coworkers, uncles, servants, and whatever the fuck Babs and Ianthe had going on, but never a parent and child.

Unless.

We still don't know what Samael and Anastasia's relationship was, but we do know now that Anastasia was already a mother before the ascension. Pyrrha painted a nursery for her.

It would be very interesting if Samael had been Anastasia's son.

[mayasaura]

One of the biggest unanswered questions—to me—coming out of Nona the Ninth is..... Did Kiriona really think John would make her his cavalier if she opened the Tomb and dispatched Alecto?

It seems highly unlikely. I don't doubt she would want it, if she thought the offer was both genuine and possible to achieve, but those are some big ifs.

She was present for the fight that revealed Alecto as John's cavalier. She was there when John broke his amiable facade to say don't call her a monster. She knows first-hand what it is to share a part of your soul with someone. And we're meant to accept she believed John wanted Alecto dead? Doubt.jpg

But let's say she did believe that. John told a super convincing story, and she wanted so badly to believe someone loved her more than that slab of freezer meat. Whatever. The "possible to achieve" hurdle still looms large. Kiriona saw her father survive being reduced to atoms, she knows his cavalier is the source of that power, and she heard him say that what sleeps in the Tomb is "as dead as [he] could make her" and that she's "not the dying kind." And Kiriona was going to kill her with.... what? A rapier? Her knuckle knives? Because John said her blood was so super special, it would work just for her? Come on.

Kiriona—Gideon—is not that gullible. She grew up at war with Harrow. She grew up literally hunted for sport by the House Marshall. She considers angles, she tests motives, and she looks before she leaps. She expects to be betrayed, used, and discarded, and John made a hell of a first impression in the betrayal category. I believe she loves her father. I believe she'd do just about anything if she thought it would make her father love her. But blind trust? No way. She may or may not be a good judge of character, but she's definitely a skittish son of bitch.

And that's not even touching all the logical holes in her story—she stowed away to New Rho so she could open the Tomb? Girl what?—and the way she dropped the idea as soon as Ianthe pushed her to admit she was really there for Harrow.

Actually, you know what. I take it back. My biggest unanswered question isn't if Gideon believed any of it. There's no way. What I want to know now is whether John ever really asked her in the first place, or if it was all just a load of hot garbage she ad libbed to avoid mentioning Harrow to Ianthe. The implications either way are voluminous for the shape of the story to come, and I honestly can't rule either option out with the information we have.

[pumpkingrumpkin]

#Anastasia and John are already set up to contrast #in being a long dead mythologised ancestor and a living relic set on nothing outliving him#so if John really did offer to make Kiriona his cavalier #and Samael was Anastasia's child #there is space for another fascinating parallel here in whatever Kiriona and John make of that offer next book#anastasia dedicated her death and her legacy to avenging her cavalier #she may even be responsible for sacrificing that legacy to create Harrow as a last-ditch pass at freeing Alecto #and if I'm right about that then there's a grim poetry to it #sacrificing every son and daughter of her House to avenge the son she refused to sacrifice

^^ op's tags

Kiriona said that if she killed Alecto, she would be John's cavalier. That's so interesting to me, because it's the one relationship we've never seen in a necrocav pairing. We've had siblings, lovers, cousins, best friends, coworkers, uncles, servants, and whatever the fuck Babs and Ianthe had going on, but never a parent and child.

Unless.

We still don't know what Samael and Anastasia's relationship was, but we do know now that Anastasia was already a mother before the ascension. Pyrrha painted a nursery for her.

It would be very interesting if Samael had been Anastasia's son.

[chaos-has-theories]

#Anastasia and John are already set up to contrast#in being a long dead mythologised ancestor and a living relic set on nothing outliving him#so if John really did offer to make Kiriona his cavalier#and Samael was Anastasia's child#there is space for another fascinating parallel here in whatever Kiriona and John make of that offer next book#anastasia dedicated her death and her legacy to avenging her cavalier#she may even be responsible for sacrificing that legacy to create Harrow as a last-ditch pass at freeing Alecto#and if I'm right about that then there's a grim poetry to it#sacrificing every son and daughter of her House to avenge the son she refused to sacrifice

Putting the tags in here before I add my two cents:

I absolutely adore this theory, but I'm not sure if it can work out. Because it only works if either

a) Samael already had children of his own, and Anastasia was a grandmother

or

b) Samael had at least one sibling.

Because we know that Harrow is descended directly from Anastasia.

That parallel between Gideon and Samael and the 200 dead is fascinating and devastating, but I posit one other possible parallel:

If Anastasia had a different child - Samael's sibling, or his child too, or whatever it is - well. They share one experience with Harrow, at least.

Anastasia let herself be walled into the tomb to keep that door closed. Harrow's parents killed themselves because she opened it.

Both of them were left to lead a dying house alone.

Kiriona said that if she killed Alecto, she would be John's cavalier. That's so interesting to me, because it's the one relationship we've never seen in a necrocav pairing. We've had siblings, lovers, cousins, best friends, coworkers, uncles, servants, and whatever the fuck Babs and Ianthe had going on, but never a parent and child.

Unless.

We still don't know what Samael and Anastasia's relationship was, but we do know now that Anastasia was already a mother before the ascension. Pyrrha painted a nursery for her.

It would be very interesting if Samael had been Anastasia's son.