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fishyyyyy99 · 1 year ago

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I'm really sorry for your loss.

I honestly get being put off by the fixation on Jaren Lewison. It's actually just a couple of users (and I actually think only one of them is super active now) who are super fans of Ben/Jaren and keep on posting about him. But they post so much that it seems like the entire sub is obsessed with him. The rest of us don't mind for the most part, because most of the active users are Benvis. And they do have very insightful analyses of the character (I think I understand him much better thanks to them). I actually don't wish that they would reduce the amount that they post. Instead, I wish that there were fans of other characters who are as passionate as they are about Ben, who would also post on the sub. That's why I'm glad I found you, like I said before.

I think my problem with the other subreddit started when the mod locked my thread simply because I put up a post explaining why I was personally biased in favour of Ben (this was way back when season 2 came out) - I didn't even say that I thought that Benvi was objectively better. Somehow the mod interpreted what I said to mean that I didn't care about what Devi wanted and that I was saying that she "should" end up with Ben just because he liked her. Also, if there are posts hating on Paxton in the Ben stan subreddit, then that really sucks. Even though I prefer Benvi to Daxton, as individual characters, I actually like Ben and Paxton equally (second to Devi, and equal to Nalini, Mohan, and Rebecca). I don't think either of them deserves hate, and whenever I see someone coming up with the most uncharitable interpretations of certain things they've done, I get really annoyed. For example, people on the anti-Ben sub have said that Ben didn't want to go to the game with Patty for classist reasons (when it was really obvious that he was no longer in the mood to go to the game after his father ditched him). And on the Ben stan sub, I've seen someone say (post season 2), that Paxton came to the dance only because he needed Devi's help to get into college (which is wild to me because she had already stopped tutoring him earlier on in the season; I think it was more of a general feeling of realising that someone is genuinely on your team). I think I have seen some people on that sub diminish Paxton's feelings for Devi even though they don't call him toxic or a bad person. Paxton is absolutely an interesting character. It seems like Darren's acting didn't work for some people because they feel like he didn't portray inner conflict that much. It definitely worked for me though. His tone and expressions have always worked for me, I can tell when Paxton is in denial about something (for example, in 2 x 03 when he says that Devi and him don't make any sense, but then he pauses and scans her body language before asking her to sign his cast). So I feel like Paxton is complex and his growth has been non-linear.

I definitely know that lots of people use insults as a love language, and being polite is seen by some as a sign of distance. It was always obvious to me that Ben and Devi enjoyed their banter once they became friends. I know some people think their relationship never grew, but I have to disagree with that view. It was really messed up when Ben called Devi a UN and said that she was faking her paralysis. But that was definitely not their relationship after 1 x 06. I know some people think that Ben saying that Devi is built like a shot putter is a sign that there has been no growth, but I genuinely do not think that she was not offended by that.

I'd like to point out that Devi asking Ben if he's going to get a plastic surgery in the season finale is also equally an insult. Ben smiles when Devi says that she's a slim thicc, snatched-waist queen. And Devi smiles when Ben says that he is the perfect combination of boyish and handsome. It may not be palatable to everyone, but I know for a fact that some really close friendships are like that - they involve jokes about skin colour, height, weight, etc. And I actually don't think the friendships themselves are inherently unhealthy because of that. It's not my kind of thing, but I also know that those kinds of friendships aren't bad simply because their banter is "meaner". They genuinely do enjoy that sort of thing, and actually really love each other. However, I still do have a problem with those insults being used on the show (but I honestly realized back when season 1 released that Never Have I Ever was never going to be politically correct so I got over expecting that) simply because of some of the audience possibly taking home the message that certain body types are less attractive than others. I genuinely believe that Ben and Devi enjoy even their "mean" banter and I don't think that's a bad thing. People like what they like. But I am worried about some people in the audience thinking that being short or being fat or having body hair are bad things.

I also think that Ben and Devi's competition, while it started off being toxic ended up being the healthy kind of competition, where they could put aside their rivalry when necessary, and genuinely hype each other up. I'm sure they'll always have a healthy competition between them, that they do like having, because it pushes them intellectually.

As for Ben and Devi enjoying each other's company the most, I think it's very obvious with Ben. The way he smiles widely when she texts him about the pedo in 1 x 06, the excitement in his voice when he says, "David! You came." in 1 x 08, his smile when she's talking about Nemo in that same episode, the way in 3 x 02, he had loads of time to "dick around" with Devi, as Aneesa put it (despite having a lot of studying to do), and the way his whole body shakes when he laughs while he's texting Devi about what she pulled off with Paxton. Also, he definitely likes her competitive side a lot (I mean it was literally in his sex dream), that he doesn't get from the other people he dates. He was impressed by how well she did during that Daisy Buchanan trial and he was so happy when she made them win the debate in 3 x 07. Ben seemed happy during the honeymoon phase/when he was flirting with Aneesa, but I honestly never got the vibe that he admired her very existence, in the way that I got with Devi (I also want to add that I actually think that Paxton really appreciated Devi's very existence too. Ben and Paxton are soft around Devi in a way that I never saw Des or Ethan be, even though they were obviously very into her). As for Margot, he literally used the line, "But you're still not Devi", for her. So I think it's obvious whom he prefers there. Also, I think it's telling that none of his other girlfriends got personalised nicknames. I get why some people find "David" problematic, but I honestly don't think it's a one-size-fits-all type of issue. The feelings of people who dislike it are valid. But so are my feelings, and as a brown girl, I'd love it if someone called me "David" the way Ben calls Devi "David". Give me a personalised nickname over a generic "babe", any day.

I think a recurring theme throughout the show has been Ben and Devi always being in each other's lives whether as enemies, friends, or lovers. Other love interests don't seem to be as involved in their lives once they stop dating them. That's why Devi finds it so weird when Ben stops talking to her in season 4. Even when they were enemies, they used to talk. That's why Ben thinks of his social circle in high school as consisting of one nemesis and zero friends - his relationship with Devi, even at its most negative, was still the most significant relationship in his school life (because even as enemies she really "saw" him, and of course that was important to a boy who felt invisible even to his own parents). They would rather be in each other's lives in some form (even causing themselves pain by watching the other date someone else), than not talk at all.

I personally prefer Ben and Devi's platonic chemistry over the platonic chemistry she shares with Eleanor and Fabiola. Somehow, the way their conversations happened just didn't feel organic to me. Like I said, even though I don't relate to Ben and Devi's specific dynamic, I relate to the way they get each other more than anyone else does. They retreat into their own world away from everyone else. And that really reminds me of how my best friend and I act. I honestly just don't get that vibe with Devi, Fab, and El. And I swear it's not me being sexist and hating on female friendships or anything. There have definitely been shows in which I really, really loved the female friendships portrayed - Aimee and Maeve in Sex Education, Jen and Judy in Dead to Me, and the four main characters in this Tamil series that I sometimes watch - all of them have the kind of platonic chemistry that really works for me. I just didn't feel it with Devi, El, and Fab, and the way my own friendship with my best friend is, probably influenced that.

This next part is going to talk about why I think Devi enjoys Ben's company more than Paxton's company, so you can skip it if that's not something you want to read. I'll put three asterisks at the start of the paragraph when it stops being anti-daxton. I just wasn’t sure how to explain why I think Devi enjoys Ben's company the most out of everyone she hangs out with, without explaining why I don't think it's Paxton. It's definitely going to involve my biased interpretations though. I personally feel that Ben's personality vibes/meshes more with Devi's personality even though he seems more superficially off-putting than Paxton sometimes. I have never doubted Paxton's feelings for Devi. I read a post somewhere on tumblr that said that Paxton idealised Devi too, and the points they laid down made sense, but ultimately I think that his idealisation of Devi was very different (basically the normal kind that happens for everyone when you first start liking someone) from her idealisation of him in season 1. I always doubted Devi's feelings for Paxton. I'll admit that I used to be one of the people who thought that she never felt any genuine connection at all with him, and that it was all just idealisation. But I've since changed my mind about that. I do think she felt a genuine connection with Paxton, but I do still think that her connection with Ben was deeper.

To me, it always seemed like Devi's most joyful moments with Paxton were when he was giving her validation of some sort (of course there were other moments of genuine connection when she was happy with him, I'm just talking about what stood out as the most joyful to me) - when he puts his arm around her and starts cheering her on, when he says she looks great, when she snags her first kiss from a "teenage Adonis", when she becomes PAXTON HALL-YOSHIDA's girlfriend (I know some people might find it romantic, but I honestly felt the way she said it sounded more like she wanted it as a status symbol). I feel like her use of impersonal language when talking with/thinking about Paxton is really what stands out to me. For example, she feels good that this "hunk of beef" enjoys spending time with her.

Paxton is the one who seems to seek her out more just to enjoy her company, rather than the other way around. Like in 2 x 02, when he asks her if she would like to come and cheer him on at the swim meet, and says that he'd like to see her when he climbs out of the pool, it sounds really sweet. But she just sounds really horny when she says that she would also like to see him climb out of the pool. Again, in 2 x 05, it's Paxton who seeks her out at the relay event and says that studying is less boring with her. And in 3 x 03, he's the one who asks her if she wants to come play paintball with him (which she refuses). He seems to really mean it when he says that they make a good team, but she seems like she's trying hard to convince herself of it. I do want to stress that I definitely think Devi enjoys Paxton's company. She says that it's pretty nice to see his face around school again, and that it's a nice bonus that she gets to hang out with him now that she is working for the swim team. I just think she enjoys Ben's company even more.

I think Devi's most joyful moments with Ben have been when she is just enjoying his company, even when he is not giving her validation, although, obviously she is also elated when he flies all the way across the country to tell her that he loves her. For example, I personally haven't seen Devi share a comparable scene to the one in 1 x 06 (when they're both really animatedly talking about being losers and clearly having a lot of fun), or to the one in 3 x 02 (when they're just talking to each other and a laughing a lot, and not just momentarily), or even the scene in 3 x 08 (when they're talking about Ben's drawing of Eric) with any other character. There's something so effortless about the way they slip into their own zone and enjoy talking with each other so much. Also, other evidence that really makes me feel like Ben is someone whose company she really enjoys are when she wistfully says, "Banter", in 2 x 05 when Ben calls her a charity case and also when she's telling Dr. Ryan about how Ben is really smart and they talk (mostly argue), for hours. I know some people see the arguing as a negative thing, but I always took it to mean debating because she said that he was really smart right before it. She loves how Ben gets her brainy side. Also, I love how Devi giggles a little when Ben asks if he was drooling in 1 x 10. To me, that's what happens when you just really like someone's very existence. And in 2 x 02, she definitely enjoys playing flip cup with him. They both play to win and appreciate it about each other. My favourite Devi smile of the entire series is in 4 x 05, when she just looks so happy that she helped Ben feel "oddly inspired", as he put it. There was something so radiant and real about it. But the smile that followed a few minutes later when Ben agrees to be her friend again also deserves an honourable mention. She still really likes him and it still will hurt her to see him with Margot, but just having him back in her life even as a friend makes her incredibly happy (so happy that she doesn't care about the other students being pissed off at her for ruining their trip). This whole smiles thing obviously depends one's own interpretation. But for me, the best Devi smiles were always with Ben rather than with Paxton (I like the way both Ben and Paxton smile/chuckle at the things she does though).

We also see Devi seek out Ben's company when she asks to team up with him in 3 x 06. And I just like Ben and Devi's interactions overall, compared to Paxton and Devi's interactions so that definitely makes me biased. I loved when she sent him 5 dollars so that he wouldn't have to accept food from a pedo again, LOL. I absolutely loved their text conversation about her being a feminist icon. I love the way their banter flows in general, whether as enemies or friends. And I especially loved how well they seemed to know each other, demonstrated throughout season 4. The fact that they get each other in a way that nobody else gets them was especially obvious in 4 x 06, when Ben was the only one to validate Devi's feelings in the exact way that she wanted. Also, throughout the show, we seem to see a lot more of Ben and Devi hanging out platonically overall, than we see Devi and Paxton hanging out platonically (maybe it happened more offscreen, but the show didn't choose to focus as much on it, so it didn't do as much for me). And to me, that's evidence of really enjoying someone's company. And I think having a solid platonic basis is a great foundation for a romantic relationship.

In my personal opinion, Ben and Devi didn't work out the first time, because Devi was too busy worrying about validation at that point. At that point, her relationship with Paxton didn't work out either. She definitely had drastically reduced the amount that she idealised Paxton, by the end of season 2. But it was clearly still there. She always seemed to view their relationship as having captured lightning in a bottle. So, her second relationship with Paxton didn't work out either because she didn't like herself enough, as Paxton said. So I honestly feel like there were problems every time Daxton tried to make it work romantically too. By the end of season 3, I think Devi liked herself enough to not view Paxton as unattainable. And I think Paxton had also gone through his own arc of accepting that he wanted to be with someone who challenged him and he was okay with it being someone who riled him up. I think they were ready to be together at that point, if they wanted to be together. But I think that with all the obsession with external validation having faded away, and only genuine connections to focus on, Devi felt a deeper connection with Ben. I don't mean to say that what she felt for Paxton wasn't real, but I do think what she felt for Ben was deeper. And I don't think Paxton was in love with her but I do think he liked her deeply and if they'd had another chance to rekindle their relationship, he would have been able to fall in love with her. I think the only thing standing between Paxton and Devi in 3 x 10, was that she realised that she had deeper feelings for Ben.

***As for why Ben and Devi didn't work out in 4 x 01, I think he still hadn't gotten over his insecurities from being two-timed in season 2, even though he had forgiven Devi. I think it triggered his abandonment issues that his parents had caused him, so it cut him really deep. That's why he assumes that Devi bolted, and so easily believes Dwight Howard when he says that she isn't into him. It made sense to me, because he was just pining for Devi for so long, but never had to confront the possibility of an actual relationship with her again until 4 x 01, so all his insecurities came back in full-force. But by the end of season 4, Devi had really demonstrated how much she cared for him, and Trent had also given him advice on confessing his love for her even if she didn't feel the same way. So I do think he was ready for a relationship with Devi in 4 x 10. I think Devi was ready for Ben by 3 x 10. So I view their third attempt at turning things romantic as likely to be successful (reading a lot of Ben posts on reddit helped me understand his issues better, so I get it if people feel that the show didn't do a good enough job of establishing them - I don't think I'd have more fully understood his issues without reddit either).

I do agree that Ben needs to go to therapy though (and he eventually does, in my headcanon, after Devi encourages him to, because therapy has helped her so much), and establish more stable friendships (I'm glad that he stayed friends with Margot, and Trent and Ben really seemed to have established a long-term friendship by the time the season ended). But I don't necessarily think that he can't also be in a romantic relationship while doing all of that (especially because I think of him and Devi as best friends first and foremost).

I saw someone on reddit say that they treated Paxton as an inconvenience to be gotten rid of in season 4, and I agree. I think a lot of what they did with his character was because they thought that it would make it easier for the Daxtons to accept a Benvi ending, but it obviously backfired. Like you said, they emphasised on his physical attraction to Ms. Thompson to make up for lack of development of genuine connection. And I honestly feel like they made such a huge deal out of it being the first time he was ever on the receiving end of a slow-mo entry just so that people could think that what he had with Devi wasn't so great after all, so that they would be okay with Daxton not being endgame. Well, it didn't work for me, because we've had so much proof on the show itself that slow-mo entrances mean nothing in terms of real love.

I agree that Daxton should have at least had a more fleshed out platonic relationship throughout season 4. Despite Paxton having his own episode, it felt like there wasn't enough of him in season 4. I actually feel like there was going to be more of him, because something that Jaren said in an interview made me think that Ben and Paxton were going to have a better scene in season 4 (not just the one we got at the end of 4 x 07). And I think that Lily who plays Rebecca also said that she filmed for season 4, in a comment. Again, I think these scenes might have been cut to make a Benvi endgame more palatable to those who shipped Daxton. But it just lowered the appeal of the show for me. I honestly feel like Ethan could have been done away with in favour of more Paxton. I get the purpose that Ethan served, but I think the same things could have been achieved without him, if the storyline had been tweaked a little.

As a 23 year old myself, I would never date a 19 year old. If someone my age (of either gender) chose to do that, I'd definitely find it odd, but I'm not sure I'd necessarily find it creepy, though I do agree that more people would be flipping out about this if the genders were flipped. Also, like you said, it's even more gross when you consider all the sexualisation and cougar attention that Paxton was on the receiving end of, that they treated as a joke on the show.

As for the teaching thing, I agree that Devi or Becca could have done what Ms. Thompson did. I honestly think they were trying hard to convince people that Devi and Paxton were in different life stages or something, when in reality, they're actually in the same life stage by the end of the show. It's Ms. Thompson who was in a different stage of her life. And sure, Devi didn't call Paxton out when he accidentally hosted that party, but I honestly feel like that was such a temporary problem, rather than a fundamental incompatibility. I mean even with Ben in 3 x 06, she didn't really know how to advise him on not overworking himself. It's something someone can grow out of as they mature. I just don't buy the whole Paxton and Devi couldn't work because they were in different stages of life explanation that some people keep giving.

I actually think that Devi helping Paxton in season 2 did play a role in him deciding to pursue a career in teaching. I wish they'd been more explicit, but I do think there's a reason why the story Ms. Thompson narrates when he asks her why she wanted to teach, is so similar to his arc with Devi in season 2 (the one person who didn't give up on him when his grades were bad). There's no way that was accidental.

I see your point about it making more sense if they'd made Devi being happy single, more explicit. It worked for me, the way it was because I do think that it made sense for her to be upset about Ben (in her view) not liking her back. I mean she was in love with him, so I wouldn't expect her to be 100% happy with the situation. The difference between earlier versions of Devi and season 4 Devi is that she genuinely seems to be having the time of her life, with her family and friends, despite being upset about Ben. She's very obviously no longer boy crazy. There's a part of her that's sad because she wants to be with Ben, but overall she seems really happy with her life even before he shows up. I could see it in her expressions, even though they didn't say anything explicit.

This paragraph and the next are going to be a little anti-daxton again, because I'm going to give my opinion on the resolution of the love triangle. They're the last two paragraphs, so you can stop reading here if you don't want to read that. I do think that it would have been nicer if one of Devi's choices hadn't been eliminated because of his job as a teacher. But, for me, there's no confusion about whom she would have chosen even if she had a real choice. It became clear to me in 3 x 10, when she even considers that Paxton giving a speech about her to the whole school is kind of romantic, but feels no stomach knots (something that would never be the case for earlier versions of Devi - any tiny thing that Paxton said would be enough to get her hopes up). I never thought that Devi was ever going to be confused about whom she liked after 3 x 10. And in my opinion, she never was, throughout the whole of season 4. She was self-aware about Ethan being someone she needed to feel better about herself. And she also told Paxton that it was for the best that they wouldn't be able to kiss again and that it felt like closure. I feel like there was no need to add all that unless she was certain that she no longer wanted to pursue anything with Paxton even if it ever became an option again. Also, he's the one who initiated the kiss (although yes, she reciprocated enthusiastically because she is obviously still attracted to him). I have my own interpretation of what Darren was trying to portray in season 4, despite the fact the fact that the script was barely giving him anything. If you're curious, I made this post about it:

So for me, 3 x 10, is the actual resolution of the love triangle. I know not everyone saw Paxton's speech as a romantic gesture, but I did (it was also platonic gratitude though), especially because of the whole conversation in 3 x 07 about being riled up. I don't think that applies to anyone in Paxton's life other than Devi, not even to Ms. Thompson whom he eventually ends up with. So I have to disagree with people saying that he wasn't specifically thinking of Devi when he said that he needed someone challenging in 3 x 08. Also, the way he looked at her in 3 x 08 when he was wiping off the mascara, and the way he looked at her in 3 x 10 after giving the speech both felt romantic to me. I think 3 x 10 had both Ben and Paxton state their feelings, in indirect ways, and Devi felt stomach knots only for one of them. So to me, the love triangle was resolved at that point. I was hoping for a better closure arc for Paxton though, because to me, it was obvious that he was hung up on Devi throughout season 3.

Sorry I took so long to reply, my response was longer than I expected.

@fishyyyyy99 Starting a new post cause I didn't want the old one to get super long :P

I don't even know if the other sub ships Daxton, so much as they simply hate Ben. I'd even be okay with the hate if there wasn't so much censorship there. And the sub that I posted on definitely has a Benvi bias with a few Ben super fans (who didn't even really ship Benvi in the past) who post a huge amount about Ben. They don't hate Paxton, but they treat him like he's this boring, uninteresting character which I completely disagree with.

Yeah, I get deleting comments if they're unnecessarily rude/clearly trolls/arguing in bad faith, but it'd be nice if there was a reason given, so it doesn't seem like people's comments are being deleted just because they have opposing views. I did see a couple people hating on Paxton in a post on the Ben stan subreddit, but that could've just been an outlier. I admittedly haven't spent a lot of time on there because I a) don't use reddit that often in general and b) found the fixation on Jaren Lewison kinda weird and off-putting. Either way, Paxton is definitely an interesting character if you're willing to look past the fact that he's more introverted/reserved than Ben and Devi.

While it's fun to read the analyses of Ben on the Ben stan subreddit, it does not scratch my itch to read detailed analyses of other characters so I'm glad I found you.

Aw thanks!! Sorry I’m not faster at replying lol

Thank you for acknowledging that a good love triangle has two viable romantic options. Benvi was always more enjoyable to me because of the existence of Daxton. Ben is fun to watch when he does all that pining. As for why I prefer Benvi to Daxton, before I even knew that Benvi was going to be a ship, I wanted them to be a ship because I love enemies to lovers. And I always loved their friendship. But especially in season 3, Ben and Devi started reminding me of my best friend and myself (whom I'd definitely be very attracted to, if I were attracted to girls).

That’s fair! And you’re definitely right about Ben being at his best when he’s pining.

I normally enjoy enemies to lovers, but Ben and Devi don’t totally hit the beats I tend to want with that trope. And since it’s not my absolute favorite trope (that’d be fake dating), I was more looking at which guy’s personality/vibes seemed to mesh better with Devi’s, and imo, that was Paxton.

Also I felt like what Ben really needed was stable friendships (and therapy), rather than a romantic relationship. To me, Benvi felt like they were at their healthiest and most mutually beneficial when they were just friends. Whenever they were together—or trying to get together—it just seemed to create problems and conflict.

(I’m happy to elaborate on any of this; I just didn’t want to be anti Benvi unprompted lol)

Ben and Devi seemed to really enjoy each other's company in a way that they never enjoyed anyone else's (I know that not everyone may agree with this)

Yeah, my knee-jerk reaction is to disagree lol, but do you have examples/scenes that give you that impression? Ironically, I was grieving for a good chunk of last year (not a parent; don’t worry), which made my already not-great memory even worse, so my recollection for season 3 is spotty.

and they just retreat into their own world which really reminds me of how I am with my best friend even though we don't have a banter-y dynamic like Benvi. That really, really sealed the deal for me. To me, season 3 Benvi is basically just best friends to lovers and I really want my boyfriend to be my best friend too.

Huh, I’ve never thought about this before, but I wonder if the reason Benvi’s banter doesn’t always land for me is because I have a banter-y relationship with my friends (and my academic rivals back when I was in high school), so I’m more picky about how banter is written.

Now that you mention it, I agree that Lindsey's interest in Paxton was not well-developed, but I assumed it had to do with what he did for Eric.

Yeah, I figured it was because he helped Eric, but I still didn’t believe it. Like, she’s at least 22* and meets Paxton when he’s 18**, which is the same age that some of her students will be by the end of the year, since she’s teaching a senior class. And she literally calls him out for his immaturity and then less than six months later starts dating him??

She’s wanted to be a high school teacher since she was in high school, so it feels kinda creepy/like a lack of boundaries that she’d be willing to date someone who, only a year ago, was a student at the school where she’s teaching. Especially since it’s not like Paxton knew that college wasn’t for him and confidently entered the workforce. He’s abandoning his goals and floundering around trying to figure out his life. Even when he goes back to college, he’s still in that weird, not-quite-an-adult period, where he’s still figuring out how to be independent. Which is a hugely different stage of life than Lindsay, who’s a college graduate pursuing her career goals. (And that doesn't even get into the whole long distance thing)

I dated someone one (1) year younger than me when we were both in university, and I sometimes felt like he was annoyingly immature. If I wanted to be a teacher in a high school, I would have a hardline stance about only dating people closer to my age than students’ age. Also imagine if the genders were swapped and it was a guy who had graduated college who ended up with a teenage girl after influencing her life goals? People would have way more issues with the pair.

A mentor-mentee relationship would’ve made much more sense. And, honestly, Lindsay doesn’t have any narrative significance beyond “Paxton’s girlfriend” that couldn’t be filled by another character. Becca or Devi could’ve called him out for being immature and/or giving up on his goals. Devi’s tutoring and encouragement in season 2 could’ve inspired him to pursue a career in teaching. Or it could’ve been Mr. Shapiro who convinced him to become a teacher—Facing History was the first class that Paxton really pushed himself and succeeded in, after all.

Also, it just feels kind of gross to pair Paxton up with an older, much more mature woman, after all the weird sexualization and cougar attention throughout the show.

*I was curious, so I checked the California Commission on Teacher Credentialing, and she'd either need a baccalaureate (for a CL-505p Substitute Teaching Permit) or to still be enrolled in a four-year school, which we know she isn't, since she said she graduated. But with a permit, substitutes can only cover for a teacher for 60 cumulative days. And since she seems to be working there for pretty much the entire school year, she probably has full teaching credentials, which could add at least a year to her time at college.

**I did the math, and his birthday would be December or early/mid January

I will say that I was really annoyed that they made such a huge deal of her slow-mo entry because it felt to me like they were undermining his feelings for Devi. But I've since become okay with it because even Des had a slow-mo entry for Devi and we all know that that was NOT the superior relationship.

Honestly, the slow-mo entry thing seemed weird to me, too. I think it felt like a Devi-specific quirk, 'cause she always cared about looks and popularity more than the other characters. It both felt ooc for Paxton and like they were doubling down on the physical attraction to make up for the fact that the emotional connection between them hadn't really been that well developed.

I was actually okay with Devi not actively pursuing anyone in season 4. I feel like she finally was okay with not being in a relationship and would have been happy even if Ben hadn't come and confessed his love to her. She knew what she wanted and had already asked him out, he was the one who had to work through his issues in season 4. She was even happier to be with Ben but would have been happy single too. And I liked that. It showed growth to me. However, I do wish that there had been a scene in which Paxton had actually expressed interest in pursuing a relationship with her (it's a pity the teacher thing prevented that), and she actually had to make a choice about whether she wanted to pursue that or not. I'd have felt the same way even if Daxton was endgame. I'd have wanted Ben to make his interest known and for Devi to actually have to either reject him or Paxton.

Oh, I didn’t mean that I wanted her to actively be chasing after a guy; you actually articulated my point better than I did: Her rejecting Paxton should’ve been solely her choice, rather than something influenced by the situation. Because as it stands, we don’t actually know if she would’ve rejected him in s4 if his job hadn’t been a factor. It takes away some of her agency to make decisions about her love life if one of her possible choices would get someone fired.

I think it probably would've made sense to have a scene where El and Fab ask if she's crushing on anyone after her breakup with Ethan and have her say that she's happy to focus on school/hang out with them and find some guy in college. (Or a scene with Dr. Ryan that conveyed the same message.) Devi spent the past three seasons chasing after guys, so it'd be nice to have it be in the text that she doesn't feel the need to do that anymore, rather than having it be subtext.

Like, I don’t have any issue with her pining after Ben, but there were times when she seemed more resigned to the fact that nothing would happen with him towards the end of season 4, rather than actually content and comfortable being single.

Also, I agree that Daxton wasn't well-represented platonically in season 4 either. They really did Daxton dirty.

Literally every scene with them could've been platonic (at least on Devi's side) as long as they kept the emotional depth of their friendship, and I would've been happier with the season. I feel like a lot of the relationships this season were either completely forgotten about or sidelined/shallower than past seasons, which was super disappointing.

#nhie discussion #anti daxton #devi vishwakumar #ben gross #paxton hall yoshida

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