#sing & shong

[zi-vian]

How did the author even cook up orv??

like where the hell did the idea come from? a dream? thats way too creative. plus there's so little loopholes too. and the amount of foreshadowing shows that the story wasn't js writing and improvising. someone please solve this mystery 💀

[briebysabs]

I find it fascinating how much orv makes Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk live by the constraints of “reader” and “protagonist”. Like KDJ wants to see the ending but at the same time, he doesn’t and wishes the story would never end. Not simply because he loves this story but because he needs it like oxygen; TWSA gave him a purpose. He was its reader for 13 years and you notice KDJ never talks of what he’ll do after the scenarios until towards the end. There’s even a moment between him and Sangah where he ponders what he would’ve done if the novel never became reality. If he read the ending, closed his phone, and went back to his apartment. He contemplates if he would’ve killed himself, KDJ knows at least the sad truth that he wouldn’t have befriended Sangah. He’d never reconciled with his mother, he was getting laid off from his job in two days. From 15 to 28 TWSA was the only lifeline he had so think about it. What becomes of a reader when the story is over? One can discern, based on SP and OD’s conclusion, it is to find a new story. But Kim Dokja couldn’t bear to do that. To continue on, he needed to be a reader.

Lee Sookyoung wrote her novel to gain income for KDJ’s living but also to paint herself as the murderer. To sink the lie into KDJ’s head that she was the one wielding the knife. If the traumatized 12-13 years old Kim Dokja knew he killed his father by accident and his mother took the fall for him, KDJ would’ve killed himself. No doubt the guilt would kill him so LSK felt as though she had to do this. So that KDJ’s self-hatred would be aimed at her instead. She made her son a reader of his own life. It temporarily saves him, gives him some time but KDJ is still given a label “a son of a murderer”. His trauma was publicized and hyperfocused on, he was bullied excessively for it. That book is one of the factors that led to his first suicide attempt. So it doomed him.

HSY wrote TWSA to keep Kim Dokja alive. A desperate attempt to save a kid with one foot prepared to leap off a cliff. What else could she have done? She created characters that KDJ could aim his self-hatred at: Kim Namwoon, Anna Croft, the constellations, Nirvana. She made him a reader of a character’s life. Made him inject YJH’s essence through his veins like an IV drip. Of course, Kim Dokja wants Yoo Joonghyuk to be happy in the end. That is the main driving force between so many decisions he makes but where does leave him? The whole reason he attached himself to TWSA was because this protagonist was suffering too. But he kept on living round by round so surely, they could live through their shitty lives together. If the TWSA ended on that train, KDJ would truly be alone and might’ve killed himself. So what happens, the novel comes to life and gives him even more time. But because of that, later down the line KDJ will make the choice to become the Oldest Dream, a watcher for all eternity. Yes, KimCom’s world needed someone to dream for it to exist but even if that wasn’t necessary ... .do you think KDJ would have enjoyed a happily ever after discovering he was behind all their pain and tribulations? The guilt might’ve killed him, we saw some of that with his visceral reaction to OD. So it doomed him.

Kim Dokja has to be a reader.

Yoo Joonghyuk was created for Kim Dokja. This isn’t a shipping statement, this is just a fact. I think it’s foolish to believe that is all there is to his character, he’s his own individual and his journey throughout orv is keeping his autonomy and gaining agency. Outside of what he’s written to behave like or KDJ’s will for him. But his life’s purpose is to keep Kim Dokja alive. HSY wrote each of his regressions to save this one person. And this is where the 0th turn YJH comes in because he makes the decision to regress. He was happy in his world, that is true but he couldn’t truly rest because something was missing. Everything was idle, every day was peaceful after saving the world. But while yeah, KDJ was reading his story as always…he wasn’t being the protagonist. YJH needs to do something, he needs a goal to accomplish so he gives himself one. He regresses for three reasons: To meet his sponsor aka his reader Kim Dokja. To find out his purpose, what he was made for….which is to save Kim Dokja. And finally to fulfill his sense of self which is being a protagonist. Reaching self actualization and being an active force in the world around him. So fast forward when Kim Dokja’s fragments are scattered across the universe and the scenarios are over, why is it surprising that YJH falls into depression? Why is it surprising that he goes to HSY in the museum and seriously asks her to end his life? What becomes of a protagonist when there’s no one to read his story? What use is there for him? So of course he’ll be the one to venture on this suicide mission to space, hopping from one worldline to the next, grasping onto the fragile hope that KDJ can come home.

Yoo Joonghyuk has to be a protagonist.

[tenthousandyearsx]

...

Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint – Chapter 185: Ep. 35 - The 73rd Demon King, IV

[nightylantern]

Spoilers for the orv novel: The way YOOHANKIM and how they correlate in terms of kids always makes me emotional

Warnings: violence, spoilers, su1c1d3. Read at your own risk

Thinking about how Kim Dokja is soft towards children. How he saved Lee Gilyoung when he could have simply taken the bugs, even if it’s hypocrisy in his eyes. How he didn’t leave him behind even when Gilyoung told him he could. How he acknowledged his he child who survived in Guemo station. How he knew Yoosoung would be a catastrophe and still didn’t want her to die, making her his incarnation and forgiving the 41st round Shin Yoosoung

and making THAT Yoosoung his daughter. Aswell as when he announced to the world before the final scenario that he wouldn’t be saving the people, only decided to provide them comfort that Yoo Joonghyuk would save them when he noticed a child who seemed afraid.

Thinking about how Han Sooyoung never hesitated to kill anyone, like with Shin Yoosoung, despite it being a child. Especially if it meant saving the world, she was no hero, but if she saw a way to prevent a calamity she wouldn’t hesitate.

How 1863 Han Sooyoung also didn’t hesitate for the deaths of children, how she told YJH of 1863 to let Mia die. How she was willing to destroy that world line solely to get home, taking the lives of many children with it.

Thinking about Yoo Joonghyuk who was already a “parent” raising his little sister. How noticeable it was for him to be soft with her, but also him in the 1863 who allowed her to die. That’s not saying he stopped loving her, it was her death in that round that made him go more mad, but he was at a breaking point, and perhaps Mia could be at peace and no longer had to die. Also him willing to kill Shin Yoosoung, another child who was once an ally, be it her future or past. Him who also was thinking about killing Lee Gilyoung at the beginning upon learning about his sponsor. He never hesitated putting those kids in danger he knew they could handle, and wouldn’t hesitate to kill children for the greater good.

Thinking about SP who also was at his limit but never once stopped loving Mia, how he longed to be with her again in that ball he was stuck in, but never could truly meet her. How he had compassion for that boy in his train car and how he tried to save him, knowing that he would still die, and thus he would kill everyone in that car, regardless of it being a child or an adult.

Thinking how all of those patterns go out of the window when they meet Yoo Joonghyuks sponsor, who was also a child…a pitiful one at that.

Thinking how Kim Dokja would have done everything to save that child, how he would have found any loophole, and making sure that child would be cherished and loved.

Thinking how none of that happens and he tries to kill the child, how the child called him a monster. How he has nothing but hatred for that child to the point where upon using the disconnected film theory he tried to slice his own neck. How he solely was thinking about a blade either to end his own life or that child’s life. How he was yelling for the child to be killed as he was being held back. Why?

because that child was him, and his future was being a monster.

How Yoo Joonghyuk who never hesitated to kill children for the greater good, refused to kill the oldest dream despite it resulting in the end of the scenarios. He held hatred for constellations, especially his sponsor who granted his stigma, and yet stopped Dokja from killing himself. Grabbing the broken blade so hard as he calls for the rest of the company to help him.

How SP wanted nothing more than FOR CENTURIES to kill his sponsor, the sole reason for his suffering, and so that he could finally die. How he forgave his sponsor so quickly upon seeing that it wasn’t the evil sadistic puppeteer he believed he was for centuries, but a child who loved his story with all his heart, a child who needed his story to survive. How he called him a pitiful child and rather then wanting the death he dreamed of, he chose to live, and would be willing to regress if it meant to make his sponsor happy.

How Han Sooyoung who never hesitated to kill children for the greater good, or for herself and yet, she punches Dokja just as he was about to strike the child with the blade, how she was crying while punching his body not out of hatred for him being partially the reason for the scenarios, but because he wanted to kill his past self. How she was grabbing him with Yoo Joonghyuk to stop him, trying to tell the oldest dream that they just wanted to talk and not hurt him, and how she was crying, trying to stop the plotter when they assumed he wanted to kill the child. How she reprimanded Yoo Joonghyuk from strangling Kim Dokja who was in a child form, with saying that it’s still a child.

1863 Han Sooyoung who wanted to stop TWSA from being published to prevent the scenarios, only to become the author of the book when she saw Kim Dokjas 15 year old self in a hospital bed after trying to end it all. How she recalled from a memory, regardless of it being hers or the original bodies, how Dokja said that the story saves his life. How she knew that millions of people would die, yet wanted to save him. How she didn’t care and only thought about that small child on the bed, how she knew her mental state would be rid of, and thus she forgot, as it all faded into the subconscious of the real body.

Thinking about how regardless of which of the three it is, their moralities and goals will bend solely when it comes to Kim Dokja, because while YooHan had the ability to stop the scenarios and their own suffering they chose to continue suffering for the sake of Kim Dokja and that little child who unintentionally doomed the world. Their correlation with children vs. The most ancient dream is the biggest proof one has. This isn’t me saying that they are child killers (YooHan), though if one had no context then they would assume so, but I just can’t get over the parallels with them and the children that are significant towards them.

[jilted-love]

The endgame of Kimcom's polycule living in the same house and yoohankim's "triangular dynamic" are more polyam canon signs for Kim Dokja. I love these authors. We share the same vision. 🤭

[haveyoureadthisbook-poll]

[exiaax]

I DIDNT GET TO UPLOAD THIS ART

ultimate depressing beautiful fucked up philosophical game with black and white trio hornybaiting ft. Discussions on humanity and free will X ultimate depressing beautiful fucked up philosophical webnovel with black and white trio power-fantasy baiting ft. Discussions on humanity and free will that is - REQUIRED to experience on the original source material due to the creator being insane and making the build up and ending ONLY SUITABLE THROUGH VIDEOGAME/NOVEL FORMAT.

[mangaparacosm]

Yoo Joonghyuk, you fool.

[leonidele-rambles]

Shut up ORV's author(s)'s other story has ALSO turned into a webtoon and its literally the only other apocalyptic isekai on webtoon I've ever gotten interested in? I didn't even KNOW they're from the same author? The fuck?

[bookfirstlinetourney]

Round 1

There are three ways to survive in a ruined world. I have forgotten some of them now. However, one thing is certain: you who are currently reading these words will survive.

-Omniscient Reader’s Viewpoint, Sing-shong (싱숑)

Six thousand robots danced through the streets of Milky-Pink City.

-The Pirate Loop, Simon Guerrier

I'm going to die tomorrow morning.

-The Young Elites, Marie Lu

[could-they-be-a-pro-wrestler]

How successful would Kim Dokja…

Would you like to submit a character? Click this link if you do!

[briebysabs]

I’ve been deliberating for a couple days now and have decided to discuss in-depth about Kim Dokja and the tendencies of putting his life on the line. For most of the novel, I was split on whether I should view KDJ as a self-sacrificial bastard or a suicidal character. And by the end, I’ve reached the conclusion that he is both.

Before I elaborate further, it should be noted that while we all meme about KDJ’s dying count, he actually isn’t that careless with his life. What I mean is he sacrifices himself usually as a last resort, plans A to F didn’t work and it’s the only option left to hope for kimcom’s safety-ditch effort. Usually. We’ll circle back to that when we bring up OD. But his sacrifices are always done as granting his companions salvation, utterly blind to how they feel about it. But to understand his constant need to do this you have to first start with where he learned how to love. Lee Sookyoung’s love was sacrificial, she’d take the brunt of her husband’s rage to shield KDJ, she’d take on blame for his death and be incarcerated for years so Kim Dokja won’t discover the truth. All of this, in my opinion, unbeknownst to KDJ, imprinted onto him this interpretation of love. As nobody else until the scenarios began had loved him (Yes HSY technically but he doesn’t know that). Which gives the irony that multiple characters KDJ resent in the story such as Kim Namwoon, his mother, the constellations are ultimately revealed to be reflections of himself.

Another component to his self-sacrificing is “Kim Dokja the reader”. I’m not going to dive deep into how orv interweaves dissociation and escapism into its narrative, I’ll do that some other day. But KDJ views himself as the reader, an outsider, the sole member in the audience watching the story unfold before him. Yes he grants commentary, the players notice and acknowledge his existence, but he isn’t part of the play. So if he decides to step out of the auditorium for a while, if he decides to leave a bookmark where he left off and close the book, nothing should change. The story will continue in his absence, the characters cannot possibly miss him because Kim Dokja was not a character. He was not part of their world so even if he’s gone, the ending will still happen. And that is something I want to stress here.

KDJ says “he wants to see a certain story’s epilogue”. Specific choice of words, “see”. He doesn’t say he’ll be part of it,that he’ll be with them, or any close variation of those phrases.

This is where I want to diverge to talk about KDJ's suicidality. You can say “Ok then, KDJ has a clear goal in mind to reach the ending he desires. Yes he may feel the need to step out of the story every now and then, but he does so reluctantly. So obviously, he doesn’t want to die.” And you wouldn’t be wrong really but that simplifies it to an overwhelming degree. That’s how I initially thought of it until I realized how complicated it actually is. Because most people who deal with suicidal thoughts aren’t searching for death but rather feel there’s no other choice. It often isn’t as clear cut as 1863 YJH who, anyone that read this arc will say with certainty that he was suicidal. Yes KDJ isn’t chanting in his mind over and over that he wants to die but why does he want to live? To see the proper ending of a web novel that stopped him from attempting again to begin with. Over the course of orv he finds people he loves and who love him back deeply. People he longs to live for but despite that because of the disconnect between them, his self-loathing, accompanied with what I said before, believing he has no other way out of these threatening situations. Yeah it’s to save his companions but in the end Kim Dokja still feels the need to die. Even if you do not see KDJ as a suicidal character, it is undeniable that so much revolving him, the impact it has on those who care for him, and the visceral descriptions used to convey their thoughts, is a direct metaphor for that.

Or in a few cases, straight up what’s going on and now we arrive at what I think was the final straw for Kim Dokja. Meeting the Oldest Dream. For me, this is THE scene of orv. The biggest twist and what finally irreparably broke KDJ. Prior to this, Kim Dokja had become the “Enemy of the story” but it was unlike his previous dances with death. This time he truly had no intention of dying, he wants to be a part of the ending with his companions, he understands now that his sacrifices do hurt them. That according to him “I, someone of no redeeming quality, could be loved by the others.” That he is a character and that just maybe, he does deserve to live happily ever after with them. And then Kim Dokja meets a 15-year old boy with the same face as his, doodling in a notebook his ideas for Ways of Survival and a notification tells him to ‘Please end the Oldest Dream’. All of that progress is shattered in an instant.

KDJ tries to excuse himself by recalling his promise to SP to kill OD but we all know if that was any other kid, he would not have tried to kill them. He would’ve hesitated much more, he’d look for a loophole, he would’ve tried talking which is his biggest strength for every corner he gets into. Killing them would not be the first option but now it is. Because this isn’t an instance of sacrifice anymore, KDJ is sick of himself. OD is a presence that confirms KDJ’s worst fears. That he’s meant to be weak and pitiful and alone, that he was always an outsider, that he unintentionally causes pain and misfortune to people he loves, that everyone would be perfectly fine and better even without him. And Kim Dokja is the physical manifestation of them: a monster. And there’s only one way to get rid of this monster.

The chain of events from him swinging his sword at OD, trying to stab himself with the blade only for YJH to stop it desperately with his hand, everyone restraining and begging him to stop, KDJ crying and screaming for SP + the other Outer Gods to kill OD. Everyone else is forgiving him and KDJ is only thinking of getting a blade.

This is Kim Dokja’s relapse. It’s real, it’s harrowing, and he never recovers from it. He reaches the conclusion that he has to be alone, it’s his atonement, it's what he deserves. So he splits himself 49-51. I interpreted this when I first read it as presenting 49% of what you believe people want to see. More real than a facade but it’s not the true you. The true, fucked up version of who you are is trapped in a prison of your making, trapped in a darkness you feel you don’t deserve to escape. Which is why it’s so powerful that KimCom went after that 51%. They didn’t want just their version of KDJ, they wanted everything KDJ is including the larger side of him that he wishes didn’t exist. But the plan fails, they managed to turn that full stop into a comma but they couldn’t save KDJ. Because you can’t drag someone out of that train, out of that mentality, you can’t force someone to love themself. All you can do is reach out to any corner, every worldline you can and let them know you’ll always love them. That you’ll always love every aspect of their story and hope that perhaps one day, they’ll accept your hand and believe it.

[ID: Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint art by Blackbox: first of Kim DOkja smiling, seen through a space in a bookshelf, and second of astronaut Yoo Joonghyuk floating upside down as letters float around him. End ID]

[tenthousandyearsx]

“I am used to the pain. Similarly, I am familiar with death. Don't you already know this?" He was certain that I knew all about him. However, Yoo Joonghyuk was wrong. I didn't know Yoo Joonghyuk. The Yoo Joonghyuk I knew would never do this.

Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint – Chapter 185: Ep. 35 - The 73rd Demon King, IV

[tenthousandyearsx]

Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint – Chapter 11: Ep. 2 – Protagonist, V

Joongdok antis: Joongdok isn’t real stop making them gay

Kim Dokja literally the first time he met with Yoo Joonghyuk:

[ddurandals]

Damn i was such a loser back then (5 seconds ago)

[insomaniacat]

orv spoilers

tbh I'm so happy there is no explicit romance in orv (minus the brief stuff that happens with jhw and lhs) and because of that I feel like I've been able to appreciate kdj in such a profound way as a character

like sure i like joongdok and yoohankim but to me at least kdj has this level of asexuality to him that I don't usually associate him with anyone that romantically. And their relationships are still as complex and has such a great depth that they are like THE foundest of families and I can return to the kim dokja company at the end of the day as all of them being my comfort characters. you know that saying like 'i love you so much i'd make the world burn for you'? it's meant to be this dramatic line about how much you love someone (romantically), but kdj's company fully encapsulates this in a platonic way that just isn't cringey or anything like that

they are all so platonic but they love each other to such an unconditional way that they ALL decide to relive through all the scenarios again in the hope of finding kim dokja again. and later, they all help to write and spread a story - stories, the thing the reader loves - again, in hopes of bringing kdj back home. they aren't sure if it'll work, but it is through this love they all have that they don't give up and put their hope in this seemingly impossible method

and this is also what makes them fundamentally different from kdj. unlike kim dokja in the apocalypse, they do not have any sort of proof their methods will work. kdj has twsa - the novel he grew up reading, the novel he fantasized living in, the novel that he's spent 13 years following, learning every nook and cranny and probably even planning out his own way to survive the apocalypse from this lengthy novel. he has some sort of assurance his methods will work, with the amount of time hsy put into describing the settings (remember that twsa was not popular and one of the complaints was that tls123 put too much emphasis on the settings that deterred people from reading it, when really, that too was a way to ensure kdj survived the apocalypse later on). he has had time to reassure himself and plan for it, and probably had yjh case test them all

but kdj's company had no assurance - they did not grow up with a book that confirmed their methods of bringing kdj back would work. they did not have any 'third plans', no 'ressurections', no 'restarts', that kdj had in the apocalypse. all they had was their own hope - something kdj didn't have when he was fifteen sitting in that hospital bed after that failed suicide attempt, feeling like the whole world was against him. Until he searched up those three words on his phone. Those three words that were probably 'Ways of Survival'.

And then he found his hope in twsa. he found his hope in yjh, the protagonist made just for him. he found hope in the story that he believed in for the next thirteen years. the story that got him through high school, the CSATs, the military. his hope was in this tangible book that carried him through the apocalypse.

kdj's company had none of that. they only had their hope in kim dokja - the man they survived the scenarios with. they could only put their hope in their memories of surviving with the man that saved them, even though there was no evidence he lived in their world anymore. they had to put their hope in the fact that they remembered he existed, even though they had to acknowledge that they didn't know everything about him.

sing shong touches upon this idea a lot throughout orv - does something really exist if no one knows about it? or, in a more modern saying, did a fallen tree in a forest really fall if no one heard it? what proves the existence of something? what proves that something truly happened? sing shong seems to make it pretty clear that the existence of something can be represented metaphorically like a 'story', and stories need a 'reader', some sort of spectator that witnesses it, for the 'story' to exist.

for kim dokja, his final sacrifice, where he split into infinite little pieces scattered across the universe, was to ensure that everything existed. that open ending, as tragic as it was, was meant to be comforting. that his sacrifice was supposed to be so existences like you and me, are real. no matter how lonely we may feel throughout our lives, a metaphorical 'kim dokja' is looking at our own stories, spectating our own stories, even living our own lives himself.

and what i hate to say sometimes is that kim dokja is not really a character - he is an idea. he is an idea of some being affirming our lives, that it's real, that what we do from day to day, even something as simple as getting up in the mornings and brushing your teeth, or thumbing through a store catalog, matters. and this is why kim dokja sacrificed himself. for all the stories that may have not 'existed' if no one was watching it.

and it's out of love. this tragic, terrible love for the world, that eats away at yourself until you are nothing. but at least you exist.