#sindar stans

[ladysternchen]

You know, I'm quite glad that we're getting the fanon vs canon concerning Elu Thingol and the Sindar in general into focus a bit. When I first came to Tumblr, it felt to me as though I were just about the only one who cared about him (which of course was never the case, but I at least had no-one to talk to about my elf).

But there's a stale note to it- that it seems there must be more fighting, and hardened fronts, more never-ending discussions that always burn down to one thing- do we accept canon or not.

And really, I don't want to go down that road anymore. I really don't want to spend so much time quoting and explaining and re-reading to make sure I get my argumentation right only to have the other side say stuff like 'yeah, true, but I still get a different vibe so I'm gonna ignore canon and keep hating'

And while I really want to emphasise that there is nothing (!) whatsoever wrong with feeling a story, feeling characters and liking or disliking them (yes, happens to me, too. Canonically, Aredhel has done absolutely nothing wrong, and yet I really dislike her), basing actual character-bashing on these 'vibes' is a problem. Excluding people who defend their favourite characters with CANON from discussions. Making up yet more hateful fanon. Accusing people of certain political beliefs because they like the Sindar (and yeah, I did delete a lot of what I've written here. It just... this makes me so so is angry, but starting to insult people is not what I want for this post, so I deleted, and sat on my fingers until I was able to pick up civil tones again).

But I can't change it. I can't change what other people think, and who knows, maybe I'm no more right than they are. Maybe there is no right. Maybe we could accept that this fandom is vast enough for ALL OF US?

So dear fellow Sindar-stans, let's stop arguing and fill Tumblr instead with the content you want to see. Share your headcanons, write your fanfictions, draw and share your fan art.

Let's discuss it all, dive deep. Comment on the works you like, ask for things to be written. Yeah, I have an obsession with character death, I find grief and mourning an incredibly beautiful thing to write and read about, and as I kill off my favourite characters in general, Elu Thingol's death is my prime motive. (who would have guessed, ey? 🤣) And I'd love to read it from time to time, rather than always write it myself. But that is my very specific hyper fixation and understandably not everyone's cup of tea. But give me all those tender moments of love and friendship and loyalty. Give me the conversations between Elwë, Olwë and Elmo on the journey, give me Daeron's backstory, give me Mablung and Beleg standing unwavering behind their king. Give me drunk Elu and Melian and HER found family. Give me an insight into Nimloth's head. Give me loving reaper-like comics with Elurín and Eluréd and Námo Mandos. And hell, yes, all you talented artists out there, give me some spicy Elu and Melian, please? Give me an insight into all those tender moments. Give me the moment of their reunion, and please please please will anyone draw the moment that Elwë stumbled into Olwë's arms on legs that would not yet carry him (lol, ok, that's too specific. But I have that weird hc that Elves that are released from Mandos need some time to get accustomed to their body again, like a butterfly needs to dry after it emerges from its cocoon).

Ok, now I waffled enough, but will we try that, please? Spread some love instead of discord? That belongs to Bauglir after all.

[youmisguidedmartyr]

I would kill to know what Dior "Diva" Eluchîl was doing those 3 years between his ascension to the throne and the second kinslaying

[lycheesodas]

“They are called the Sindar, the Grey-elves of starlit Beleriand; and although they were Moriquendi, under the lordship of Thingol and the teaching of Melian they became the fairest and the most wise and skilful of all the Elves of Middle-earth.”

This is one of my favorite passages in the book 🥺 I imagine they had a huge party to celebrate Elwe's return with Melian, and that's how they start becoming known as the original party elves 😎

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[parma-formenorion]

Wait how is Elwing controversial?

[iminye]

hot take but you're allowed to like both the noldor and the sindar, you're allowed to be a fan of fëanor and/or any of his sons and be sympathetic towards thingol, you're allowed to like both miriel and indis, you're allowed to like the kidnap fam and simultaneously be a massive stan of elwing and eärendil, you're allowed to like maeglin but also to like idril and acknowledge that the betrayal of gondolin and everything that came with it was terrible, you're allowed to be a celegorm fan but you can also absolutely call him out for the lúthien situation and make fun of his death at the hands of a 30-something year old half human twink (all the love to dior btw he's awesome), you're allowed to do that!

and you know what, none of these are mutually exclusive, you don't have to feel forced to choose one side or the other depending on who is morally right. like what you like!

and also before anyone comes at me, obviously you're also allowed to completely ignore this and stay rooted in your opinion but please don't antagonise people who do not share it.

thanks.

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

elrond explicitly preferring his sindarin heritage over his noldorin one and continuing in his own sons the "el-" prefix naming tradition that dior began in honor of thingol... sindar stans we stay winning

[serene-faerie]

maybe its just me but i literally can't stand when those blogs that genuinely hate this character and has nothing good to say about the character and won't change their minds about it, posts, for example, 'hey thingol stans, why do you like this character' that type of thing, because i don't know why but it reeks baiting so much for blogs like you guys 😭 to flock and answer. they won't even bother accepting your answer because they already have a different perception on how they view the character you like so it's kind of fruitless to answer their question and for them to ask it. imagine if i make a 'feanor stans, why do you like this asshole'. its just mean maybe? idk maybe i am sensitive.

It's not just you, anon; I've also come to develop a low tolerance for those kinds of posts.

You are totally right when you say that it reeks of baiting. Half the time, the person who makes the post really isn't interested in hearing other people's perceptions of characters like Thingol. I've come to realize that those people have already made up their minds and only want to reiterate how much they hate those characters.

It's even worse when they come onto posts made by fans of those characters to hate on them, say that they'll gladly hear us out if we have evidence of why they're wrong, only to literally ignore us when we bring up quotes from the book??? Like that one hater who came onto my Worst Takes about Thingol poll to bash on him, and ignored me when I gave quotes pointing out why they were wrong. If only I'd known how pointless it was to argue with them, lmao.

And yeah, those same fans would be upset if we went into the Fëanor tag with a question like "Fëanor stans, why do you even like him???". Like talk about double standards, lmao.

In my honest opinion, if Silm fans despise Thingol, Lúthien, Dior, Elwing, and the Sindar Elves in general, then they aren't allowed to talk about them because 98% of the time, they have the most horrendous takes about those characters. They should just stick to talking about their faves instead of coming up with horrible interpretations of characters they don't even like.

But in the end, I guess all we can really do is block those kinds of people. That way, we can keep the tag (somewhat) free of hate.

Thank you for stopping by, anon!

[galadhir]

I have always assumed that it refers to the elves only in the Third Age, when most of the Noldor who are left in Middle-earth are so exhausted and jaded from all that fruitless fighting and tragedy that they have become uber-cautious and now hardly do anything at all. (See Gwindor being all 'well, yes and no,' to all Frodo's questions.) They're tired, they're old, and they just want to sit in their havens and wait until they're finally allowed to go home.

Meanwhile the Sindar and Silvan elves who are left are still engaged with the world - because Middle-earth is their home. So they're much more like the old Silmarillion elves still - they're passionate, they're still doing stuff, like Thranduil going to the aid of the Lakemen, or Celeborn leading the attack on Dol Guldur.

And this makes them more dangerous in the sense that you might find them out and about with their own agendas and plans (into which you might not fit) and less wise (in the Noldor-in-Ennor sense of wise where 'wise' means 'resigned to the long defeat, their own helplessness and the Valar's punishment.)

I don't think the Sindar in Middle-earth come across as less wise in the classic sense of wise, but they certainly do come across as so much less ground down and old. (Even when, as in Celeborn's case, they're among the oldest beings to still exist in the world.) They still retain some of that Silmarillion style fire and fallibility.

‘more dangerous and less wise’ I’m sorry WHAT!? Is Tolkien seriously trying to tell us that the freaking Sindar are the feral ones out of all the Elven races? After the entire First Age? As for more dangerous, Galadriel is still here. You know, Feanor 2.0 the only one that actually survived. Using the Elven metric for being batshit insane yes, Mirkwood is weird, but not swearing blood oaths, setting everything on fire, murdering everyone in sight, telling the gods to go fuck themselves, challenging gods to one on one combat insane.

The line of Oropher isn’t even Thingol levels of mental. They’ve never even touched a silmaril or a ring of power! They’re downright sensible by first age standards! They’re arrogant sure, they have low self preservation instincts and seem pretty xenophobic (dwarf stuff). Also depending on your point of view there might be colonist undertones. All of which is just toned down versions of the First Age Sindar. They probably have developed weird customs from living in the murder forest so long and being pretty isolated but there’s nothing to indicate they’re all that bad. I mean they’re still alive and they’re holding on to their kings at a relatively steady rate.

I absolutely agree with takes going around that this is some sort of deliberate protection technique they have to ward off trespassers and that Thranduil is sitting there in his cave coming up with rumours to spread about all the messed up things they do to people. Because in the book they seem kind of chill? And this becomes a million times more funny to me if he bases the rumours off stuff he heard about from Elrond.

As in ‘Yeah we totally eat giant spider meat, that’s definitely a thing we do,’ and everyone’s reacting as horrified and scared or not falling for it while Elrond’s believing every word and just looks sympathetic, ‘Aww you guys have food shortages? I hear you, supplies were pretty shit during all that destruction of an entire continent in the War of Wrath. You know if you wanted more options I wouldn’t recommend raw orc meat before you build up a tolerance but I can defo show you how to butcher them properly!’ Thranduil just staring back at him like ‘Fuck you. I was trying to make up some story to scare children at night with, you guys actually did this shit? How hard is it to come up with something you fucking Noldor haven’t done already?!’

And also: Thranduil proceeds to take out a notepad, ‘Ok so tell me again about what the kinslayers did to interrogate those prisoners?’ And Elrond replies, ‘Oh, that wasn’t Maglor and Maedhros, that was a story about Gil Galad’s army in the War of Wrath.’ Thranduil ‘I’m sorry WHAT the actual fuck.’ Elrond nodding understandingly ‘Too much for the Third Age?’ Thranduil rapidly taking notes ‘No it’s perfect keep it coming.’

[actual-bill-potts]

and all his towers cast down makes me jumpy in the best of ways. I am not usually an AU person, much less an enjoyer of this sort of extreme canon divergence, but this one really works for me. Can you talk a little about what motivated you to write it? Have you sorted out the endgame yet? That tag How to cope when ten ppl got eaten alive in front of u is so rich in potential! Thanks very much :)

adfkldsajk thank you so much for this ask, my answer is going under a cut cuz it's gonna be LONG

first off thank you so much for your kind words, it always makes my day to hear that someone is enjoying my work!!

Second off, this AU was motivated by a variety of things. Some of my thought process is actually laid out in this post: I originally wanted to see Maglor and Lúthien girlbossing together (bc people always pit Daeron vs Maglor when Lúthien is clearly the superior singer...) and then I thought "omg I bet Maglor and Lúthien together would fuck up Angband" and then I thought I have to write this. Originally Finrod wasn't even going to play much of a role - rescuing him was just a catalyst for the plot!

But I am Finrod's #1 stan and the more I thought about his death/possible rescue, the more I realized just how much fell apart with his loss, and how cruel his death was. The guy most famous for having friends everywhere rode near-friendless to his ending and died after losing everyone who stuck with him. I decided: he deserved better, and thus the story took its current form, with one thread following Maedhros and Fingon dealing with the political fallout of the Nargothrond debacle, one thread following Beren, Luthien, and Maglor on the Silmaril Quest, and one thread following Finrod's recovery.

I have sorted out the endgame, although this fic continues to grow in scope. Originally it was going to be 10 chapters max and just feature Maglor stealing the Silmarils; now it is semi-plotted all the way through to the War of Wrath and I'm considering starting a series to fully cover all the themes I want to hit. Suffice to say this story is going to be going on for a very long time, haha.

I am proud of that tag you mentioned, because for all that Finrod wasn't initially supposed to feature that prominently in this AU, I think the tag sums up at least a third of what I want the story to be about. Finrod's story is particularly tragic to me because he loses so much of what defines him as a character in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. He's the Friend of Men, but nearly all of the Bëorians died in the Dagor Bragollach, and Finrod dies believing that he was unable to protect the one remaining descendant of Balan. He's a noted diplomat, but with one request Thingol has entirely torn apart any future hope of complete allyship/harmony between the Noldor and the Sindar. He's the King of Nargothrond, except the Nargothrondrim turned away from him. He went across the Ice for love of his cousins, but Turgon is gone and the Fëanorians betrayed him. The symbolism isn't subtle - he literally dies in the tower he built, that's been turned to evil and destruction...

So what I really want to explore in the Finrod part of this fic is: how would that have changed him, if he lived? Could he recover, from being torn apart so thoroughly? Would he want to? What would he choose to do about the whole Thingol situation, about Nargothrond, about the Union of Maedhros (should it arise)? And of course, there's one person who underwent a similar experience of being torn apart and unmade: what would Maedhros think about all of this? Would he be able to help?

Writing this story has been a true joy and a discovery, because the characters have come so fully alive in my head and I keep discovering things they would be concerned about/do/say that never occurred to me during my (minimal) outlining. For example, Beren was not initially even intended as a POV character, but he's such a fascinating kind of blank in the Lay that I felt an overwhelming curiosity about what he would have thought about in the wake of his rescue. Fingon wasn't really going to make an appearance in this fic, but then I thought - he surely helped with Maedhros' recovery, could he help with Finrod's? How would he respond to the Nargothrond debacle? And he must have been devastated to learn about Finrod's death, coming so close after he lost Angrod, Aegnor, and his father; how relieved he would be, to see Finrod at least saved! So there are many threads that emerged (and are still emerging) from this story that have been so much fun to weave into the narrative.

Thank you again for the question, and I hope you continue to enjoy the fic! <3 <3 <3

[sidhewrites]

you're an LOTR stan too?!!?

THERE’S SOME GOOD IN THIS WORLD MISTER FRODO, I sob incoherently at you. AND IT’S WORTH FIGHTING FOR

But Yeah!!! I’ve been in love with the movies since I first saw them in middle school, but I’ve struggled to read the books till now, with @sindar-princeling ‘s lotr newsletter. We’re almost at the end, Frodo and Sam are so close to mount doom, and I am crying with all my heart at how much I love my hobbits and also every other character in this series. The other day I was crying about Merry and Pippin and how much they’re trying to do good and how small and humble they are but they are determined to do their best and help others all the same.

I’m working on an illustration with the fellowship as well, it’ll be done sometime before June maybe !

How about you? Do you have a fave character/s? How did you get into the series?

[incorrectsilmquotes]

Elu Thingol: Don't joke about murder. I was murdered once, and it offends me.

[aipilosse]

What version of the Silmarillion are you referencing? The text of the key bolded quote you have is different in both versions I have on hand. The unedited quote is:

"There the armies of Morgoth that had passed south into the Vale of Sirion and beleaguered Círdan in the Havens of the Falas came up to their aid, and were caught in their ruin. For Celegorm, Fëanor’s son, having news of them, waylaid them with a part of the Elven-host, and coming down upon them out of the hills near Eithel Sirion drove them into the Fen of Serech."

It's weird that in a nit-picky post you leave out "beleagured Círdan in the Havens of the" from the quote and thus remove the place in the text where Círdan and Celegorm are mentioned in adjacent sentences.

This is a more substantive connection between characters than numerous other supposed linkages between Silm characters that much ink has been spilled over.

I strongly disagree that there's no indication that Celegorm never met Círdan nor any of his people: 'Of the Sindar' which describes the situation of the Sindar immediately preceding this passage, the subsequent interactions with the Mithrim who must have had to retreat with Círdan, and further passages that talk about Círdan traveling up and down the whole coast of Beleriand all lead me to assume Celegorm met many of Círdan's people, and likely the man himself.

This reminds of so many needlessly pedantic arguments I've seen:

The fighting over whether Celegorm and Curufin went through Nan Dungortheb

Whether the Lost Road quote that has Maglor and Elrond in the same sentence is definitive proof of a happy ending for kidnap fam stans

Whether or not Sauron is the Lord of the Rings

Fits and tantrums thrown over changing 'spouse' to 'wife'

Whether it's totally erroneous to assume the Elven Rings were used before the Third Age

Did the entirety of the Long Peace suck balls?

I could go on and on about so many other mountains made of the molehills of Tolkien's less-than-direct sentence structure, a frankly bizarre map, and a book Frankenstein-ed out of texts scribbled down over a period of over 50 years.

Does any of it matter? Not really! But man, do Tolkien fans love to beat each other up over the text. And that really grinds my gears when it's in these grey areas where you really can't definitively say one way over the other because of how much you have to fill in in order to make anything make sense regarding to Beleriand's geography or the military details of the battles (and don't get me started on the economy!)

I'm far from guiltless, though I think my position has been 'no you can read this the other way/there're sources that support this alternative explanation' to a fault. But I'm so tired. You can't throw a lens of realism over this fantasy epic and come away with conclusive details on daily life, the inner thoughts of most of the characters, or even who met whom. It can be fun to fill in these details! But you're painting outlines on fuzzy blobs of colors and saying that's the only way those lines could possibly have been drawn.

Anyway, tl;dr, if you're going to nitpick, get the quotes right, and if anyone tells you you're indulging in le gasp sordid FANON because Celegorm and Círdan are interacting in your fic, come get me and I'll be annoying at that person until the fandom is in flames and/or we've all blocked each other.

Okay, this is really nitpicky, but I have to say it. When the Fëanoreans landed in Middle-earth, Celegorm did not lead an army south and relieve the siege of the Falathrim. I’m seen that referenced or mentions in a lot of meta and fics, but it never happened. And there is no indication that Celegorm even met Círdan or any of his people, or was even aware of them prior to Fingolfin’s forces arriving.

What happened was that Morgoth reacted to the Fëanorean forces’ arrival by pulling his army besieging the Falathrim away and sending it north towards Ard-galen. And then, when it was in the north, far from the Falas, attacking the Fëanoreans, Celegorm defeated that army.

Yes, this is minor, and yes, it’s beneficial to the Falathrim that the arrival of the Fëanoreans made Morgoth decide he needed that army more elsewhere, but there is no direct “showing up and rescuing them” moment, and none of the Fëanoreans are anywhere near the Falas during the Battle-under-Stars, and Celegorm has no more to do with the benefit to the Falathrim than anyone else does (though he gets the Fëanorean forces out of a tight spot) and this just seems to be a weirdly common fanon misconception?

Under the cold stars before the rising of the Moon the host of Fëanor went up the long Firth of Drengist that pierced the Echoing Hills of Ered Lómin, and passed thus from the shores into the great land of Hithlum; and they came at length to the long lake of Mithrim, and upon its northern shore made their encampment in the region that bore the same name. But the host of Morgoth, aroused by the tumult of Lammoth and the light of the burning at Losgar, came through the passes of the Ered Wethrin, the Mountains of Shadow, and assailed Fëanor on a sudden, before his camp was full-wrought or put into defence; and there on the grey fields of Mithrim was fought the Second Battle of the Wars of Beleriand. Dagor-nuin-Giliath it is named, the Battle-under-Stars, for the Moon had not yet risen; and it is renowned in song.

The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible. The Orcs fled before them, and they were driven forth from Mithrim with great slaughter, and hunted over the Mountains of Shadow into the great plain of Ard-galen, that lay northward of Dorthonion. There [in Ard-galen] the armies of Morgoth that had passed south into the Vale of Sirion and beleagured Sirion in the Falas came up to their aid, and were caught in their ruin. For Celegorm, Fëanor’s son, having news of them, waylaid them with a part of the Elven-host, and coming down out of the hills near Eithel Sirion drove them into the Fen of Serech.

If you will indulge my very bad edit of the Beleriand map:

The orcs coming from across Ard-galen from Angband cross the mountains and attack the Fëanoreans up at Mithrim, in the top. The Fëanoreans drive them back over the mountains into Ard-galen. The orcs that were besieging the Falas, brought up as reinforcements for the other orcs, come up all the way into Ard-galen. Celegorm, attacking from Eithel Sirion (which is north of the Fen of Serech), drives them south into the Fen.

At no point are the Fëanoreans - Celegorm or other - anywhere near the Falas. Celegorm's actions have no more impact on the Falas specifically than anyone else's.

[lotr-archive]

Me reading that Celebrimbor/Sauron fics ignoring canon BC yeah give me all the happy endings

[lycheesodas]

drop this sunflower🌻 into the inboxes of the blogs that make you happy! lets spread a little sunshine ☀

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Love and appreciation for a Sindar stan in a sea of Noldar nerds (who’re also appreciated, but a much less endangered species)

aw, thank you so much!! sindar stan for life hahah 💪💐🌻🌱

[ellrond]

ELLIE did u see the actress people think was casted as Celebrían (on lotronprime insta page). i need ur thoughts

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I’m really hoping that Nia Towle is Celebrían!! Given the insane choice of making the Noldor entirely white, it would be great to see the Sindar as non-white! She’s absolutely stunning and I think that every Celebrían stan I know would love to see a woman of colour as her!

Amazon has been insane with their casting of the Eldar, though, making them all white thus far. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the blonde haired blue eyed woman on the left who has been cast. No offence to her and of course she’s clearly a skilled actor else she wouldn’t have landed the role. But damn like. As visually exciting as cardboard.

[annoyinglandmagazine]

I think I don’t need to go into all the reasons Elrond seems to be universally adored in this fandom. Elrond’s the best. But I will say one of the most weirdly in character things about Elrond is that he is sort of a unifying figure in the Tolkien fandom just as he is in universe. The movie fans? Some of us may have issues with certain out of character things he did but clearly something about his portrayal was compelling in and of itself because he defo has a movie fanbase as well (a lot of this could be put down to Hugo Weaving apparently being a bit of a DILF but as a lesbian I couldn’t possibly comment).

People who’ve read Lotr and the Hobbit? How could you not love him, kind as summer, excellent father, wise and welcoming, what isn’t there to like? He’s great.

And Silm fans….. oh god do we love him. Whichever fanbase your coming from, wherever you focus your attention, chances are you interact with Elrond content. Feanorian Apologists? Adoptive feral child of Maglor and Maedhros that flaunts his upbringing wherever possible. Nolofinwean stans? Turgon 2.0, loving father, lives in a hidden valley, largely defensive before all else and less inclined to rush into things. The adult in the room essentially. Edain obsessives? Descended from all of them, and the Numenor connections and parallels are enough to scream into the void about for eternity. Sindar fans? Luthien come again, anybody? Seriously though, he’s such a Melian just look at that shit with the river.