#siding with the mages

[spitedemon]

i really don’t think it’s “typical dragon age fandom nonsense” for people to be genuinely upset about the world state choices. combat, level design, art direction, gameplay gimmicks, those have all varied across each dragon age game. the one thing that’s remained constant are nods to our previous choices.

i wasn’t expecting my HoF to come riding in on a griffon, but i can’t find a monument dedicated to warden tabris somewhere around the anderfels? lucanis couldn’t have some lines about the time that one arainai boy was stirring up trouble in antiva city? you’re gonna tell me that making a mage the new divine wouldn’t have some impact on nevarra and antiva? on the anderfels, the supposed most devout militant andrastian nation in thedas? you’re saying nobody in the north is paying attention to who rules orlais or ferelden? come on.

[random-roses]

Twenty Sided Tavern - @quiddie night 1

[bluewaterhigh2005]

no other game in the world is laced with anything nearly as addictive as whatever the fuck dragon age 2 is laced with. kirkwall is a shitty evil flop city and i will never ever leave it

[luasumas]

i had a vision

[vaguely-concerned]

just for fun this time during 'sea of blood' I counted out all the venatori corpses I think we can be pretty sure were lucanis' handiwork before we show up (not including the ones he kills in his initial cutscene, and with an assumption that he's been at work mainly up and down in the areas we move through until we find him, not behind the locked door -- I think that's mostly the work of rampaging undead and other venatori-hoisted-by-their-own-petard suchlikes). can thus happily inform you lucanis has killed at least 32 venatori before rook and company get there. at least one of them he's impaled on their own weird crystal spike things the venatori mages cast as an AOE attack and that they're trying to keep him contained with when we find him. so he's clearly been keeping busy lol. that's my boy dispensing poetic justice and claiming some enrichment in his enclosure while he's at it good for him!

[robo-dino-puppies]

dragon age 2 | fenris

[zuppizup]

Something something characters connected to the moon arcanum hallucinating against their will…

Which is to say, I’m an Arc 3 Moon Arcanum Callum truther

[lizzybeeee]

The Lucanis vs Illario story would have had greater emotional depth/intrigue if the writers didn't water down how fucked up the Crows are as an organization.

Just some thoughts about how, out of all the side villains, Illario had some great potential to be a really interesting/tragic character in my opinion.

TL;DR: Zevran Aranai has a knife with Caterina's name on it for good reason and Lucanis/Illario need therapy...or whatever the Thedas equivalent is called...talking to Rook, I dunno

Going into DATV as a new player, or even as a returning one, the whitewashing of the Crows has a lot of the potential complexities of that life simply ignored or barely touched upon. The entire 'Illario vs Lucanis' boils down to: Illario seething in the shadows about Lucanis being the 'best boy'™ of the family while Illario is an after thought - which he is.

Let's be real, Illario is not subtle and immediately comes across as the Scar to Lucanis' 'Mufasa'. It's a questline with a very straightforward villain who has pretty lackluster motivations from what info we're provided - being 'I want power and to be the First Talon'. The game does very little explore what motivations he may have beyond being jealous of Lucanis/wanting more power.

However, if you play the quest line knowing what previous games have set up about the Crows - about how cutthroat and brutal the life is behind the glamour - then you can see that the entire Lucanis vs Illario conflict has amazing potential to be a dramatic tragedy.

We've seen how the life of Crow can affect Zevran - someone who was sold into the life through child-slavery. How interesting would it be to see how the life of a Crow can affect someone who was born into it? It's pretty clear in-game that Caterina intends for her grandchildren to carry on the family tradition - despite the fact that this 'family tradition' has likely led to the deaths of most of her grandchildren and however many children she had.

If there's banter about how Illario's/Lucanis' parents/cousins died specifically I haven't heard it, but the impression I got in-game was that it was likely linked to the Crows/politics in some way? Feel free to correct me! Still majorly fucked up that she pushes her grandsons into this life regardless!

Lucanis/Illario's situation was not like Zevran's - who was sold into the Crow's through slavery, with no one to speak up for him. Caterina was a woman who had power, who knew what the life of a Crow meant, and who still pushed those she 'loved' into it because is consolidated her place in the system. For all the Crows talk of 'family' Caterina doesn't seem to give a shit about them unless if they're contributing to the family business in some way - not to mention the whole 'you fail and we kill you' clause of being a Crow in the first place.

In the 'Wigmaker Job' from Tevinter Nights Lucanis talks about how Caterina hit him [also Illario] with her cane for mistakes and had him spend days without food/water. How he used to hate her but now 'realizes' that it was her way of ensuring he survived the life of being an Antivan Crow. Did it end up protecting them? It likely pushed them both to refine their skills out of fear. It's likely that simply by association with her they would be targets and thus needed to know how to take care of themselves and fight.

But why have him as a Crow in the first place? Why not simply train them well to defend themselves? You can't deny that she doesn't benefit from having her grandchildren in the family business - intentionally wanting Lucanis to take over her position as First Talon. The Antivan Crows are a force to be reckoned with and being one brings a whole lot of power in Antiva - being part of the elite of that group even more so.

If the game showed us the ugly reality of the Crows - the brutality of the lifestyle and how cutthroat the organization is, it could have really added some depth to Illario's betrayal - having it be more than "I want more power/respect" to "this is the result of what you taught me was valuable in life."

Warden: "Do you actually enjoy being an assassin?" Zevran: "And why not? There are many things to enjoy about being a Crow in Antiva. You are respected. You are feared. The authorities go out of their way to overlook your trespasses. Even the rewards are nothing to turn your nose up at."

Illario, bitter about Caterina favoring Lucanis - resentful of the fact that she has already decided that Lucanis will be her successor, being offered power by the Venatori (at the expense of the Crows) and accepting because why not? How different is it from what the Crows do? Isn't power and status the whole point of working yourself up in the Crows? Getting into a relationship with Zara because why not? Isn't sex part of the allure of being a Crow? Why can't he have this? Why shouldn't he have this?

Rook: "When we met, it didn't seem like Illario and Caterina were close." Lucanis: "It was hard to be close to her. Even for me. And...I was her favorite."

Why would he have connections to his family? Why should he? Caterina certainly never seemed to value 'family' beyond what they could do for her and their family legacy. Most of his family is already dead, and of those that remain the only parental figure he has obviously favors Lucanis. We don't have a lot of evidence in-game to show that Illario ever really cared for Lucanis, but the prequel story 'The Wake' and Lucanis' own banter imply that they were practically brothers, best friends. Perhaps he did care and then ceased to at some point, perhaps he didn't at all, or perhaps he accepted that an early death for them both was inevitable like everyone else in their family. Dead now or later - what was the difference? At least if Illario sells him out now to the Venatori then he'll get something from it instead of another dead family member to bury.

It's the tragic result of raising a child in an environment where he was taught and experienced the need for self-preservation at all costs. Constantly threatened, punished, and made well aware of that fact that his life was an expendable commodity. Then, when things in the world went to shit he picked the only option that made sense to him. To save himself.

The irony of the potential fall of the Crows, the fall of House Dellamorte, coming at the hands of one of their own - not because he had a change of heart but because he was taught too well by them. The Crows view those that fail them as disposable, someone to be discarded - if the Crows fail Illario, what is to stop him from applying that mindset to them?

But this would require the writers to acknowledge how messed up the Crows are and we can't do that to our 'Noble Freedom Fighters'™. They'll also need to address Zevran's existence and what lore was established in past games...and we can't have that either lmao.

[wanderlustknightofmagic]

"Rain? I caught some fish and wanted to know if you wanted to cook with me. I know our last little bout was fun, but I think I can best you this time."

"Oooooh fish? Is it native from here or is it from another world? It's fine either way, but I would like to know if this is something you have a little more... familiarity with. After all, I encourage you trying to get an edge up on out-cooking me if you think it'll help," He'd smirk while he'd pull out his hairband to help push his hair back.

[pencilofawesomeness]

It's Team Erza’s turn for the Friendship Sleep Pile

Whoever laid down first is a mystery. Lucy's bed probably shouldn't be this large, but that's the magic of friendship.

[invinciblerodent]

well, that felt.....

worse.

that felt distinctly worse.

at least when I saved Minrathous as a Shadow Dragon, I had Lucanis to direct my character's anger onto (in the "I saved my home; where the fuck does he get off blaming me for making the exact decision he would have made" sort of way), but Neve and the Viper both being more tired and understanding, rather than pissed, and them diffusing even Tarquin's accusations to protect Rook.... that honestly makes me feel like a thousand times shittier than angrily/guiltily blasting through the Blight boils in the canals (with Lucanis nowhere in sight) did.

........... upside, at least my boy looked positively dashing the whole way through, and he got to yell at Solas again, that's at least something

[minrathous]

it's so frustrating they don't take the necropolis as an opportunity to explore spirits with more depth in veilguard. or even Manfred's whole thing. Manfred being able to learn to speak implies that any wisp is capable of it with time. they have preferences and emotions and comprehend speech but you still shouldn't be concerned that they are used for slave labour in the necropolis. you're supposed to be horrified that Hezenkoss is abusing spirits but not at that. engaging with spirits as people introduces too much nuance to the situation and veilguard is absolutely incapable of dealing with it. otherwise they'd have to engage with why Solas wants to tear the veil down

[kirkwallguy]

one act three handers conflict i love to make up in my head (because act three is held together by three quests and a piece of string) is that hawke is playing the political game, they're doing this fucked up dance with meredith because they KNOW that they're getting closer to her. so when she asks them to kill blood mages for her, trying to degrade them and push them to breaking point, they agree because at least it means they can get into her office. meanwhile, anders hates this and thinks it's deeply scummy. he doesn't believe it's worth it and sees even a fake alliance with meredith as a major betrayal. even if they're killing blood mages, they're still doing templar work! maybe he never forgives hawke for it deep down.

[worstloki]

loki turns into a flock of crows and everyone assumes this is normal loki business but actually he's been vampire cursed for a month now and no one has Noticed

[vaguely-concerned]

early game harding thinks rye is so full of shit and it's so funny. 'what did varric bring in this wishy-washy little mage kid for exactly. he was fine to have around as someone who could crack jokes that made varric really smile and to be a Knower of Stuff about the fade and veil and magic and everything but uh... this ain't it fam. does he think he can outthink the apocalypse. did taking direct immediate action kill his ma or something for him to avoid it like this. I know he's a mortalitasi and everything and I guess they think about death differently over there in nevarra who am I to judge (*judges viciously in the privacy of her own mind*) but andraste's mercy he doesn't even seem SAD. what is WRONG with him. no stop it lace he's doing his best we're all doing our best varric believed in him people grieve in their own ways and we can't judge them for it, we have to have his back he's in a difficult situation and needs our support. I GUESS'

also. imagining her some months later watching him tear through weisshaupt like a bullet from a gun and go 'well in hindsight I might have misread this particular character trait. perhaps a walking act of the maker should make sure it knows where it's headed before it cuts loose for everyone's sake actually. he might have the right idea there'

[arlathen]

it's funny that andrastianism was right but like a thousand years too early. like no a god and his (once?) mortal beloved didn't inhabit the golden city but. they do now.