#should it intrigue them
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I don't think rewriters are bad people for not writing every single character as a good person. The canon series doesn't even make them all good. Including the uncomfortable and dark content doesn't make people bad or mean they support it.
With the recent influx of cannibalism, do we seriously believe those people support eating folks? No. Why do we think or assume people are evil or bad for writing other similarly dark themes? A lot of people include themes of abuse, like making parents bad, because it's an outlet for themselves, do we just hate venting and victims? It's weird.
( not "proship". just think it's weird to shun or attack people for writing abusive garte or keeping the whole ein thing)
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#I think the purity culture is strong in this fandom#I think you should get to play around with darker themes#especially in a fantasy setting#especially especially in a fantasy setting which canonically involves raising corpses to create an army#against the deceased will and through the exploitation of their memories#idk let ppl mess around I think#depicting abuse is not condoning it#unless done poorly#aphmau confessions#aphmau#aphblr#aphverse#aphmau mcd#aphmau minecraft diaries#minecraft diaries#mcd#cannibalism is not my thing but I think it's a lovely little thing for ppl to explore#should it intrigue them#🤭
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An interesting aspect of Laudna and Imogen's relationship and how it has developed is the fact that they got together early in their campaign, long before either of them had any chance to work through their respective issues. Vax confessed his feelings for Keyleth early on (relatively so; c1 had been going for a while before it started streaming), but she explicitly turned him down at the time, and they didn't actually get together until she felt she was ready, later in the campaign. Percy and Vex didn't get together until after Percy had worked through his figurative and literal inner demons. Jester and Fjord didn't get together until he had moved away from Uk'otoa and his self-worth issues, and she from her romanticized ideas of romance. Yasha and Beau didn't become a couple until both of them had moved away from their self-destructive tendencies and Yasha had let go of Zuala and Beau of Jester. Caleb and Essek didn't get together until the epilogue, when Caleb finally let go of the past and embraced the future.
When Laudna and Imogen got together, Laudna was at one of her lowest points (and has since started digging), having just invited Delilah back in, and Imogen was (is) still struggling against the temptation of Predathos. While Imogen has since gone great strides in growing, Laudna has regressed, using her feelings for Imogen as an excuse to further give in to Delilah to protect her. She's too bogged down by her own self-worth issues to uphold a healthy relationship, and keeps hurting Imogen by hurting herself, not realizing how or why this upsets Imogen.
And I can't help but wonder, would Percy and Vex's relationship have been as destructive had they gotten together before or during the Briarwoods arc? Jester and Fjord if they got together during the pirates arc? Yasha and Beau if they got together before or just after Obann, when they were both self-destructing massively? Caleb and Essek if they got together while they were still low-key manipulating and honeypotting each other for information?
But even without the romance, Laudna and Imogen likely wouldn't have escaped the situation they're now in. They started out already kind of co-dependent, and remind me of Vax & Vex and Caleb & Nott in that way. But whereas the twins and Caleb and Nott's arcs had them learn to question each other and embrace love for other people rather than isolate themselves, Imogen and Laudna has only gotten more entrenched in each other's issues, and more unwilling to push each other to grow.
#critical role#cr3#cr3 spoilers#imogen temult#laudna#not sure if i'm going anywhere specific with this. they just intrigue me#at this point it feels equally likely for them to end things amicably/work things out and get the cottagecore ending/tragically selfdestruc#i should point out that i love this shit. messy relationships my beloved#nella talks cr#imodna#southern gothic
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i wrote a big long essay talking about tlt and how it engages with describing the skintones of brown characters its under a read more bc it is so long.
I already left a long comment about this on someone else post but I wish I could study tazmuirs odd little habit of dancing around the fact that Gideon and Harrow are women of color when she describes them, and how this kind of extends to other brown characters
We get a million descriptions for how sickly pale ianthe Silas and cytherea are, what a lovely golden tan corona has, the odd tannish yellow hue of colum, all imagined by her, in her own words, to be white. Then when it comes to Marta and Judith they're called dark like Once in the text. I don't think it's even mentioned for Jeannemary and magnus in the entirety of gtn though I will gladly stand corrected if I missed something. It's such a non factor for them, which normally I would overlook if it wasn't for the aforementioned specificity of how white characters are described on Top of one of the major themes of the book being how John, a Maori man, resurrected a largely Polynesian population and then proceed to rule them using the exact same methods that actively colonized new zealand. Like I just think it's really interesting that in many ways, the story is about two young Maori women completely stripped of cultural heritage, they can't even speak te reo maori they cannot even conceptualize the scale of that kind of loss. Theyve been to earth once and during her brief time there Gideon literally died on it's soil it feels so poignant
Back to them specifically being Not Pale, this is not me saying they would be "less" maori if they were light-skinned that's total bullshit and the entire paradigm exists as a product of European bullshit. My fascination is more with the fact that tamsyn has clearly thought of them as midtoned to dark skinned. I'm going to be really generous and disregard the Tommy Arnold covers- he is a talented artist but he's not the author and Taz stated in an interview that she didn't envision Gideon with an undercut either so he clearly has little liberties he can take and I'm fine with that get your coin dude. For these two I'm going to have to focus on Nona the Ninth, bc for the entirety of gtn, harrow is described as grey, and while I understand that's bc she's constantly under a mountain of white and black facepaint, we basically never get an objective description for either of them. Gideon stand out features are her build, hair and eyes, like a lot of characters, but it could have been pretty easy to throw in a line about how she seems less desaturated than what one might expect from a ninth cavalier, like a rich warm brown, possibly hinting to other characters that she isn't a ninth native
Htn also gives very little to work with, again harrows primary colors are the blacks whites and greys of facepaint and her hair and the reds of constantly sweating blood. The character who's darker skintone is Most remarked upon (also one of the few ever constantly headcanoned) as black, is g1deon. I've actually spoken to a few people about this and there seems to be some actual Mandela effect shit going on where people remember Taz saying he's black despite me never once finding evidence for this. However, this is not a case where I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong, because g1deon being the one black guy in this entire cast, the one who's dark skintone is commented on the most, being the guy who barely speaks, tries killing harrow with a spear 14 times and then dies offscreen. Not good. Bad, actually
Finally onto ntn, in the beginning chapters Nona remarks her (harrows) skintone is the color of an egg carton. I assume she means the light tan, desaturated brown of the cardboard used in certain cartons, which is fitting for harrow, girls lived in an ice cave for 17 years. This is basically the only word we get on it. I believe a few times the text will say something about pyrrha's (g1deon's) brown Everything; brown skin, russet brown hair, rich brown eyes. that character gets to be viewed and constantly affirmed as a brown character in teh way gideon and harrow arent, it kind of others pyrrha. to contrast camillas hands are called tanned way at the beginning while recording nona's dream, then at the way end it says, "Her face still looked grey beneath its nice normal olive," olive being used to describe her once before in gtn as far as i can see. pyrrha's (g1deon's) skintone is one of her most notable features, its brought up to a noticeable agree the text wants you to keep it in your mind when you think of the saint of duty; "Most of Pyrrha was the colours of the building site: deep dried-out browns, dusty hunks of clay, rusted metal." "Pyrrha wouldn’t burn any colour other than her deep cool brown." "Nona took the water from Pyrrha’s brown, work-chapped hand and even sipped it" "Pyrrha had carried Camilla to bed in her big brown arms like Cam weighed nothing" "Pyrrha said, “Thanks, Nums,” and drained the whole thing. Nona,fascinated, watched the brown column of her throat move as she swallowed." its just notable to me when alternatively with nona you'll get a line like "Camilla didn’t say anything to that either, only rubbed her wrists where the tape had been. Nona’s skin was already back to its nice normal colour." like just the vagueness in nice normal color, we get one line about what shes supposed to look like in the beginning and thats it
towards the end during the broadcast, nona gets her first clear look at kiriona, described as: "warm-coloured skin that should have been a similar brown hue to Nona’s, except that there was something wrong with it." break out the champagne its official
Obviously, dying takes some color from you. If anything, gideons desaturation should make them More comparable given the egg carton comment and harrows general state of constant anemia. Has Nona gotten darker during her time on new rho? Was Gideon lighter than the cover led us to believe? We don't know. We well never know, which is odd, bc these books fucking love purple prose about people's appearances. We have like seven different synonyms for the shade of ianthes hair. New words for black have to be invented in order to convey harrows eyes which are Black, not the dark muddy brown of someone like ortus. It's less that I'm bothered by the text not hyperfocusing on their skin and more it picking and choosing when it will laser focus on a detail like that, and how often it's skipped over to the point that I like, constantly see people draw harrow as incredibly pale, which is very different from being light-skinned
Finally, I know people can dismiss this as like an audience interpretation thing. I know I actively draw harrow darker than Gideon which I know isn't canon. But this is less about Fandom response to the text and more the text itself and how it's like. Afraid to say brown. near the end of ntn i found One instance of it referring to gideons "slim brown hand" on nonas cheek and that is direct as it gets. even her other like, strongly non european traits are sort of danced around. her nose is "a nose that was the complete opposite of Nona’s nose, one that put her in mind of those big poison desert cats Born in the Morning was crazy about." a very fanciful description, you have to infer that nona means that its probably flat and wide, also giving us the information that harrows is most likely narrow and straight, possibly downturned. im not opposed to this, especially given the character talking about her is nona, but then you get the following paragraph:
"Her skin was very much dead-person skin, ashen and tinted the wrong colour around the nostrils and the mouth. But even if she hadn’t been dead, Nona was critical. Her eyelashes were very dark, but short and curly, whereas Nona thought all eyelashes should be long and straight (her own eyelashes were long and straight). The corpse had too much mouth and a dimple (nobody in her home had a dimple). You could not, at least, see the veins in her eyelids, which were heavy and cold and deep-set. But Nona thought it was going to be a shame to go from being so lovely as she was to being so—redheaded."
its a very frank description. dimple, curly lashes, red head, dead skin, probably a wide mouth. her nose is contrasted against nonas nose, which is also never directly described, and then compared to a fantasy animal we have never heard of until right now
kicks rocks. there isnt a point to this. the series is almost over, there is zero reason to like, knock on taz's door and ask why she did this or that. it doesnt stop me from loving the series, and the insinuation that noticing this means i must dislike the series is frankly insane (real thing that happened). if someone got the impression that harrow was white given how shes described i wouldnt blame them honestly, its most apparent she isnt in the third book (with the cover art being incredibly ambiguous) and a single blog post from taz mentioning shes maori, immediately followed by an "oh i dont care how you see the characters" addendum, which i think is like. an odd thing to tack on bc them descended from kiwis is like, very integral to the story, and gideon being the daughter of the maori man who took everything from her she didnt even know she could have and the (presumably, given her name and a very brief description) maori woman fighting to get that world back its like. damn. it feels a little important. that the audience knows theyre maori. like a little. it feels intertwined with the whole thing about john using european standards of imperialism and general aesthetics to hurt his own kid. actually.
#tlt meta#hi im black but not maori or kiwi so thats where im coming from with all this#i am fully aware some fans of color will disagree with me thats chill this is just where im at#i have never been a fan of being cagey with how a character looks#it feels like. idk kind of leaning into the fact that the audience wants a blank slate to project onto#and with her being So specific about it like this guy is nz chinese these two are tongan these two are mixed maori this guy is pasifika#it just kind of intrigues me like do you have reasons why as to each one specifically or did they jsut kind of. happen upon you#spring up fully formed#this isnt like a 'tlt is bad' 'you should feel bad if you thought this character was white or black' thing#its strictly about how the text communicates certain ideas and how the audience reacts to them#were kind of primed for . a waifish snobby pale aristocrat. ianthe is Right There harrow being white or pale feels like a natural assumptio#but it is. directly contradicted by the text. and done in a way that can be easily ignored
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Reasons to play In Stars and Time: Canon Pronoun Warfare.
#in stars and time#ISAT#Siffrin#Loop#Context: early on you meet a character who tries to get you to use the royal We pronoun for them and you shut them down. It's great.#The gender swag and non-binary rep in this game is lovely.#I sketched this out when I was in Act 2 - and as of posting this I have not yet finished the game so *please* no spoilers.#It is rare for me to get into something spoiler free and I have been getting my shit rocked by this game in the best way.#Yes I *am* taking another detour to talk about a video game I love again. I will have some fun crossovers. Trust the process.#I will also do my best to pitch this game as spoiler free as possible. Because you *should* play this game:#ISAT is a very lovingly crafted RPG with very fun and emotional writing.#The characters are great and the mysteries you slowly uncover are intriguing!#The way the gameplay ties into the player's own emotional state is nearly always in sync with the protagonist. You *will* feel things.#And it is not afraid to let those things be hard emotions! Do mind the content warnings and know your limits though.#As someone who sucks at video games I also appreciate that it is so generous with your time and keeps things fun.#Not to mention it is honestly underpriced for the amount of content in it. Buy this game. I need to spread the brainworms.
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Kaladin's final smash in which he lashes mario directly into the atmosphere
#i drew half of this like a month ago and then finished it the night i made that smash bros post#and then promptly kept on not feeling like writing alt text but im doing it NOW#realistically kaladins final smash should be incredibly extra and dramatic but i think it would be funny if he just#taps whatever poor soul got trapped in attacks range on the shoulder and calmly sends them flying off the stage#perhaps this is szeths final smash actually lmao#stormlight archive#kaladin stormblessed#fanart#art#comic#cremposting#my-storming-posts#OH by the way there is something about kirby and kaladin that intrigue me ...#image id in alt text
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Wild how we know that Elizabeth Woodville was officially appointed to royal councils in her own right during her husband’s reign and fortified the Tower of London in preparation of a siege while 8-months pregnant and had forces gathering at Westminster “in the queen’s name” in 1483 – only for NONE of these things to be even included, let alone explored, in the vast majority of scholarship and historical novels involving her.
#lol I don't remember writing this - I found it when I was searching for something else in my drafts. But it's 100% true so I had to post it.#elizabeth woodville#my post#Imo this is mainly because Elizabeth's negative historiography has always involved both vilification and diminishment in equal measure.#and because her brand of vilification (femme fatale; intriguer) suggests more indirect/“feminine” than legitimate/forceful types of power#It's still bizarre though-you'd think these would be some of the most famous & defining aspects of Elizabeth's life. But apparently not#I guess she only matters when it comes to marrying Edward and Promoting Her Family and scheming against Richard#There is very lacking interest in her beyond those things even in her traditionally negative depictions#And most of her “reassessments” tend to do diminish her so badly she's rendered utterly irrelevant and almost pathetic by the end of it#Even when some of these things *are* mentioned they're never truly emphasized as they should be.#See: her formal appointment in royal councils. It was highly unconventional + entirely unprecedented for queens in the 14th & 15th century#You'd think this would be incredibly important and highlighted when analyzing late medieval queenship in England but apparently not#Historians are more willing to straight-up INVENT positions & roles for so many other late medieval queens/king's mothers that didn't exist#(not getting into this right now it's too long...)#But somehow acknowledging and discussing Elizabeth's ACTUAL formally appointed role is too much for them I guess#She's either subsumed into the general vilification of her family (never mind that they were known as 'the queen's kin' to actual#contemporaries; they were defined by HER not the other way around) or she's rendered utterly insignificant by historians. Often both.#But at the end of the day her individual role and identity often overlooked or downplayed in both scenarios#and ofc I've said this before but - there has literally never been a proper reassessment of Elizabeth's role in 1483-85 TILL DATE#despite the fact that it's such a sensational and well-known time period in medieval England#This isn't even a Wars of the Roses thing. Both Margaret of Anjou and Margaret Beaufort have had multiple different reassessments#of their roles and positions during their respective crises/upheavals by now;#There is simply a distinct lack of interest in reassessing Elizabeth in a similar way and I think this needs to be acknowledged.#Speaking of which - there's also a persistent habit of analyzing her through the context of Margaret of Anjou or Elizabeth of York#(either as a parallel or a foil) rather than as a historical figure in HER OWN RIGHT#that's also too long to get into I just wanted to point it out because I hate it and I think it's utterly senseless#I've so much to say about how all of this affects her portrayal in historical fiction as well but that's going into a whole other tangent#ofc there are other things but these in particular *really* frustrate me#just felt like ranting a bit in the tags because these are all things that I want to individually discuss someday with proper posts...
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So like don’t judge me on how I’m taking forever reading The Book of Bill but today I just got to the “Anti-Bill Society” part of the book and… why is no one talking about them??? We have an excommunicated alcoholic priest, a giant of a man who seems to have no brain cells, a triggerhappy sharp-shootress who ALSO seems to have no brain cells, and a mad inventress who tests her inventions on herself, all under the leadership of Some Fucking Guy who is cursed to have only the worst possible ideas unless a DEMON TRIANGLE is telling him what to do. These characters are so fascinating and no one talks about them. I wanna come up with designs for them SO BAD. Father Tinsley O'Pimm, Horace Broadshoulder, Jessamine Delilah Gulch, Abigale Blackwing, and of course Thurburt Mudget Waxstaff III, you will live in my head forever.
#and like the way they dispanded???#with waxstaff being institutionalized and blackwing off married to some random guy??#and NOTHING about the others??? there’s so much potential#And Blackwing is implied to maybe be with a Northwest which adds even MORE to their intrigue#im crazy#aria ramblings#book of bill#anti bill society#should I tag them#I’m gonna#father tinsley o’pimm#horace broadshoulder#jessamine delila gulch#abigale blackwing#thurburt mudget waxstaff iii#the book of bill#gravity falls
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your honor .. I LOVE THEM 💚💛 !!!!
Pretty Green Swordsman and Beautiful Samurai Woman my beloveds 💚💛
#i finally got to see Okiku and I LOVE HER SO MUCH !! she is so cute and SHE IS A SWORDFIGHTER !! so of course she stole my heart 💖💖💖💖💖#i love how close both Zoro and Okiku became after inmediately meeting <3 and how tiny Zoro looks next to her#i want to add that i like how intrigued Zoro is of Okiku asflkdjhs this is the first time that i have seen him act like that lol#btw i think i might have a new ship 👀 tbh i have always liked ZoKiku but now i think that i really ship it <3 they are cute 💚💛#also Okiku is now one of my faves <3 pretty tall woman my beloved <3#sorry for rambling this should go on my anime only blog but AAAAA i had to scream about them#zokiku#(<- expect future fanart of this ship bc i promise that i will draw them )#zoro#okiku#ram talks#kikunojo#kiku#roronoa zoro
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ghost type trainersona moment 🖤 +extras and pokemon team below!
-a sweetheart!!!!! -the kind of person who'd be more likely to befriend all the really grown middle-aged people at their job and get along fairly well with the elderly -theyve always had a very generally gloomy outward disposition (unintentionally. like literal black aura hovering in the air over them) which people usually find intimidating, this further saddens them bcuz they mean well and are just quite softspoken 😭 -this also often causes bad weather to happen near them sometimes, so they tend to keep to themselves for the sake of others usually -wish they had a green thumb but its hit or miss on gardening probably. they fully believe plants may not like them but they still try! desperately so! -they take a lot of things very literally sometimes or take a moment to understand things -i pair them with Avery (and they do have kids later on) but honestly they are my doll to play house with whoever yay ^-^ -they also have a phantump they spoil and a ceruledge thats newer to the team whos still getting acquainted with the whole team dynamic -yes I do think that 99% of her pokemon give Avery a hard time since they really adore their trainer
#my art#pokemon#pkmn#trainersona#pkmn oc#pokemon oc#avery dont know what to do wit all dat.... chat should we kill that glasses wearing freak Yes or Yes#gengar#toxtricity#dragapult#mismagius#decidueye#mimikyu#debating giving the sona one of my names or if i should do a completely new. semi-related name. something something [redacted]#anyways as always outfit subject to change o7 among other things!#i was gonna go crazy if i couldnt give that trans enby another trans enby to bite them. in my head theyre kinda like abacelsus#i think the first time they see each other avery is intensely annoyed and focused on beating her and shes intrigued by his oddities#do not ask me who asked each other out first the more i think abt it the more i get a headache cuz i can see it from both sides theyre just#very frustrating when approaching the whole relationship HKFDSF i really dont know how they manage to have kids someday#somehow. cuz i also do not see either of them as the parenting type per se. but they get there! dont ask me how they manage!#something something abt two lonely traumatized ppl kinda finding each other or whatever
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kuyaei yuri <3
#nu carnival#nukani#kuya#eiden#kuyaei#they intrigue me. i love them#should i post my edmond doodles here btw#my art
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Dropps more Duo oodles + figuring out how to draw Gundams- or at least his pfft
#guys. what if i became both a ygo(⭐️🦀) artist and a gundam-#technically this is a multifandom acc buutt lowkey i over think things when i draw smth that isnt from what i mainly draw#any ways yea so. i think u can tell who has been occupying my brain lately aha#im only like 10 eps in of Wing butt. im intrigued by 1x2 ship... someone should geek to b abt them#gundam wing#duo maxwell#doodle#i swear once i get more knowledge on the gundams ill continue my synchroship in gundam au
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I am so frustrated by my local community's attitude towards animal welfare right now. The most horrific case of animal abuse potentially worldwide happened in my direct locale. And while it's the most vile and terrible case, these crimes were committed by an incredibly disturbed individual and it does not reflect some kind of wider problem. But this terrible – truly terrible – case has meant that a certain subset of people have been pushed hardcore to the right and are now advocating for a focus on punitive measures for animal welfare violations of any kind – with no consideration for the social injustices that lead to the most common welfare issues with animals.
My community is suffering income inequality, cost of living crisis, homelessness and more than a century of racial injustice. And in response, the largely white population has lurched back to the right in a knee-jerk reaction to an insufficient centre-left government, with the total focus on CRIME in big bold letters. And now because of this Adam Britton case we are dealing with extreme paranoia around animal welfare and all these things melding together means that we've now got people calling for extremely harsh penalties for problems that are fundamentally systemic and rooted in lack of resources, money and education.
I want to shake all these people and say, how can you realistically believe that the humans "responsible" for the condition of a suffering dog are not also suffering in some comparable way? How do you not understand? How do you not see the reality out there that animal welfare is intrinsically tied to human welfare?
#the world is a terrible place#I fully agree that we need stronger laws related to the crimes Britton committed#but we do not need to focus on harsher penalties for animal welfare in general#when I can guarantee that the people that would be affected most by this are our community's most vulnerable#we should be focusing on how to get resources more widely available to people who need them#I'm really sad about this latest dog as well#but do these people care about the people that die daily in our community because of extremely poor human welfare?#like are you kidding me?#where did this dog come from?#how did it come to be infected with mange and ehrlichiosis?#do you think it's because the people “responsible” made a conscious choice to neglect this animal?#or is it more likely that they were struggling to meet the human needs they are responsible for?#I hate this world#I hate that people see terrible things and instead of pointing at the true cause would rather cause other suffering#and I do NOT recommend looking into the Britton case#I don't mean this to sound ~intriguing~ it's honestly the worst thing of all time#it's the worst animal abuse I've ever heard of ever#do not look it up#it all happened here#within 50km of me#it's horrific
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ppl who dont understand loving a character while also hating them fascinate me, clearly youve never stanned a complete and absolute dickhead before
#mine.txt#i mean the char doesnt have to be That much of an asshole to be someone you both love and hate ofc#but once youve gone to that extreme theres basically nothing stopping you from indulging in whatever feeling a char gives you#regardless of assholery#this was ages ago so idr where i found them#but like there was this person who couldnt believe that ppl would actually stan villains and not just the heroes cause they were evil 😭#i think?? i found them on youtube???#idk its been a while#but that baffled me cause even when i was a kid thanks to my interest in noir and darker media#i had a streak of being a fan of morally grey asshole characters#who were like. Objectively assholes who i can gurantee Nobody would like irl no ifs ands or buts about it#but who were still really interesting and complex and flawed#you didnt like them cause they were nice or good or even Likeable#you liked them cause on Some degree you respected or at the very least were entertained by them#whether it be their integrity; their conviction; their goals; their audacity; their suffering; etc#there was always Something that intrigued you#you may not like them on a personal standpoint but they put on a good show and thats what matters#unfortnately it was also common for chars from these media to be laced with bigotry but its just how it goes im afraid#theres a few that dont really contain those but they tend to be either hidden gems or for younger audiences#idk i should watch and play noir stuff again i think i missed them#like that kinda stuff heavily colored my preferences in things
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Simon & Wilhelm ● I want you so much. ━
Source: Young Royals S2/Netflix
#i just#i can't get over them?#literally on my mind 24/7#lately i've been intrigued by simon's pov & it enhanced my love for them even more#as if that was even possible#i should be doing hw#ugh i love them#young royals#young royals wilhelm#young royals season 2#simon young royals#young royals netflix#YR S2#omar and edvin#Edvin Ryding#simon x wilhelm#wille x simon#wilhelm x simon#simon eriksson#wilmon#wilmon kisses#Wilmon kiss
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I've been thinking about the tragedy of Elizabeth Woodville living to see the end of her family name.
I don't mean her family with her husband, which lived on through her daughter and grandson. I mean her own.
Her sisters died, one by one, many of them after 1485. When Elizabeth died, only Katherine was left, and she would die before the turn of the century as well.
All her brothers died, too. Lewis died in childhood. John was executed. Anthony was murdered. Lionel died suddenly in the peak of Richard's reign, unable to see his niece become queen. Edward perished at war. Richard died in grieving peace. For all the violence and judgement the family endured, it was "an accident of biology" that ended their line: none of the brothers left heirs, and the Woodville name was extinguished. We know the family was aware of this. We know they mourned it, too:
“Buy a bell to be a tenor at Grafton to the bells now there, for a remembrance of the last of my blood.”
Elizabeth lived through the deposition and death of her young sons, and lived to see the end of her own family name. It must have been such a haunting loss, on both sides.
#(the quote is by Richard Woodville in his deathbed will; he was the last of the Woodville brothers to die)#elizabeth woodville#woodvilles#my post#to be clear I am not arguing that the death of an English gentry family name is some kind of giant tragedy (it absolutely the fuck is not)#I'm trying to put it into perspective with regards to what Elizabeth may have felt because we know her family DID feel this way#writing this kinda reminded me of how I am just not fond at all about the way Elizabeth's experiences in 1483-85 are written about#and the way lots so many of the unprecedentedly horrifying aspects are overlooked or treated so casually:#the seizure and murder of two MINOR sons and the illegal execution of another;#her sheer vulnerability in every way compared to all her queenly predecessors; how she was harassed by 'dire threats' for months;#how she had 5 very young daughters with her to look after at the time (Bridget and Katherine were literally 3 and 4 years old);#how unprecedented Richard's treatment of her was: EW was the first queen of england to be officially declared an adulteress;#and the first and ONLY queen to be officially accused of witchcraft#(Joan of Navarre was accused of her treason; she was never explicitly accused of witchcraft on an official level like EW was)#the first crowned queen of england to have her marriage annulled; and the first queen to have her children officially bastardized#what former queens endured through rumors* were turned into horrifying realities for her.#(I'm not trying to downplay the nightmare of that but this was fundamentally on a different level altogether)#nor did Elizabeth get a trial or appeal to the church. like I cannot emphasize this enough: this was not normal for queens#and not normal for depositions. ultimately what Richard did *was* unprecedented#and of course let's not forget that Elizabeth had literally just been unexpectedly widowed like 20 days before everything happened#I really don't feel like any of this is emphasized as much as it should be?#apart from the horrifying death of her sons - but most modern books never call it murder they just write that they 'disappeared'#and emphasize that ACTUALLY we don't know what happened to them (this includes Arlene Okerlund)#rather than allowing her to have that grief (at the very least)#more time is spent dealing with accusations that she was a heartless bitch or inconsistent intriguer for making a deal with Richard instead#it also feels like a waste because there's a lot that can be analyzed about queenship and R3's usurpation if this is ever explored properly#anyway - it's kinda sad that even after Henry won and her daughter became queen EW didn't really get a break#her family kept dying one by one and the Woodville name was extinguished. and she lived to see it#it's kinda heartbreaking - it was such a dramatic rise and such a slow haunting fall#makes for a great story tho
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alright folks, I'll probably finish SVSSS v4 by this weekend (pray for me) and then I'll be done all of MXTX's books and I have no idea which series to try next... So!! I'm going to pose the question to people that might have more experience in the genre! These are ones I've either incidentally acquired or been recommended
#help me out i'm indecisive and not well informed about the genre i don't even know if they're all technically the same genre#i started mdzs in 2022#i just finished tgcf at the start of the summer#and now i'm working through the last of svsss#i've been reading mxtx books for two years and guys i'm so not ready to be done (;′⌒`)#i'm exerting so much self-restraint by not giving up and restarting mdzs#but i've ended up with a surprisingly large stack of books over the years and i should try something new#for apothecary diaries i'm actually on book 2 i read the first back in may and wouldn't mind continuing it it's funny#as a rule i'm not huge on isekai's but svsss has warmed me to them and disabled tyrants sounds hilarious i'm intrigued#i think beware of chicken is actually by a canadian author...? but it seems to fit the genre and i had a friend passionately recommend it#so i've picked it up and should read it at some point#the other 3 i know basically nothing about buy i found the first books cheap at a used book sale and grabbed them on a whim#bene speaks
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