#shipwars right and wrong all has ruined so much

[floralkittygambler]

speaking of maturity i also really HATE charlastor cuz alastor is 40 and charlie is 20 so its kinda noncey and shes kinda naive while he can take advantage of her

Sorry for delay

I'll be honest with you, sweet, it's wise to be careful what you call noncey - moreso publically. And if I called it noncey (cant remember sorry) then Im wrong for that. Grooming and predatory would be more appropriate terms. Due to how heavy an accusation like that can be, even in fiction, you have to be careful as it can case wildfires and possible harm (such as a false accusation towards a staff member, for example). Since its fiction, it's less serious unless it results in false accusations on staff. Anything proven true disregards that last statement.

Otherwise I do agree. There is a concerning imbalance that can result in sickening manipulation. Its also clear thats his goal.

Through the grapevine, Ive heard Charlastor is something Viv hates and wants nothing of (incl Als death) yet still plays on it as fans enjoy it, hence subtle charlastor merch. Take this with a pinch of salt, mind.

That being said, I hope your opinions get respected.

[elainsgirl]

And when this fandom inevitably has to wake up from the collective psychosis and lies that has been gwynriel- what then?

What do you think will happen?

I look forward to first time readers not having to be gaslit into thinking a ship will happen that isn't there, which ruins the reading experience. It ruined my first read because all elriel moments made me so heartbroken because I thought they would not be endgame even though their buildup was so stunning. I just couldn't understand why sjm would discard elriel. When I finished acosf I knew she of course didn't. And I had been lied to by content creators I trusted.

Hey anon 🫶

honestly, I think the less hardcore stans will convert to elriel whilst those that are very much deep within gwynriel/elucien won’t be able to just switch up.

I think hardcore antis will “ruin” the excitement of the announcement for us elriels. When the books come out they will be very very critical and nitpicking every single thing about elriel and the plot. We’re going to get lots off “Mass fumbled the ball by not doing elucien/gwynriel” type of posts, and we’re still going to get gwynriel/elucien content, fics and fanarts. But by then it will be taken for the crackship it actually is. The same way Nesta x Eris, Feyre x Lucien is taken. That all being said: The major gwynriel/elucien content creators I feel like will loose lots of credibility when it comes to the fandom. Going forward, I honestly dont think the majority of them will be taken seriously. Some may even leave the fandom completely bcs let’s be honest- it will be embarrassing to be wrong especially when they were confidently saying they’re right.

I think it’ll be valid for some stans to be hurt/confused as gwynrie/elucien have been so so hyped up and the ships are often potrayed differently then it is within the books, and I know some creators will unfortunately be faced with a lot of criticism and backlash. But then eventually, it will just fade. The shipwar over, elriel is endgame and elucien/gwynriel will always remain as what ifs as crack ships should be.

You’re so right, when you head into a book with someone’s theories/opinions, only for you to find out they were completely wrong…it is annoying and definitely lessens trust. I think antis diminish elriel to the fandom bcs they know how obvious and big it is in the books, so right off the bat they like to tell you how none of their scenes meant anything and it will always be fated mates etc. So that you dont pay much attention to elriel, if that makes sense? I definitely felt this way for azriels bonus chapter: His and Gwyns’ scene was so hyped up and when I actually read it I was like…wtf? This is exactly the way Nesta reacted to Gwyn.

I can’t wait for that time soon, we dont have long left hopefully and all of this can just be a traumatic learning experience we put behind us.

[not-souleaterpost]

The SOMA - CROMA peace treaty

Well, seems I kinda was indirectly at fault for starting a "shipwar", so for Christmas I'll be the Grinch and steal all the animosity away:

Soul and Maka being together is obviously implied, it's not even just subtext but basically the point of the first one shot chapter. There are countless moments in the anime and manga that work with that and it is undeniable that the romantic part of "being partners" is the most felt with them - from all the handholding, dieing for each other, bickering but actually caring deeply for each other, the pseudo-kiss at the anime end, etc. Crona and Maka's relationship has romantic undertones too - and that is also mostly undeniable, especially in the anime but also in the manga - like Maka calling Crona's soul beautiful, abandoning her past believes and resentment for Crona, Crona defending and later even taking a deadly blow for Maka, saying Maka "made one happy for the first time", etc (Also manga spoilers, so I leave that for the iceberg videos later)

So what am I trying to say by this? That in the end, there really isn't any battle for "truth" - Ohkubo was simply too much pussyfooting and didn't really want to commit enough for either side in the end - because yeah, both side make sense but both also exclude each other. Prefering one or the other is not as much as one side being "wrong" but seeing another thing being reflected in you - basically what I mean - Soul and Crona are both self-inserts of Ohkubo, parts of his view of himsellf or better said archetypes that reflect on the audience: That's why maybe SOMA and CROMA both work in their weird ways - both are just the author shipping himself with his dream waifu - Wait, now I have ruined this for everybody- No, what I tried to say is actually, that charachters aren't "real". not in the sense of "oh it's just entertainment, don't overthink it", but in the way that they aren't individuals like me and you, in the end they are ideas being mediated, emotions being expressed - so is it really the right aproach to try to "PROVE" one's side? - And I'm being self critical here, cause even if I tried to make those posts "Memes" or kinda tongue in cheeck, I did express a sentiment of mine - one which thinking deeply is just emberassingin the end lol. But fuck, I probably miscomunicated with this again - look simplyl said, these charachters are written by the way one reads them, each interpretation is a seed of a story - cause that's what storys are themselves - a series of reteling and changes building on each other - like Soul is obviously inspired by Joe from Ashita no Joe - not consiously necessarily - but being the archetypical "too cool for school" ruffian with a secret heart of gold - but he also isn't just a retread - but an evolution, with the change of backstory from a street urchin to a rich kid under presure: So as "real" authors reinterpret storys, so does everybody, hell I freely admit that in my comic I bend the charachters in a way that I think is interesting and lets me say something new or funny or weird or just even stupid for the sake of it: So Tl;Dr - it doesn't matter which ship is "canon" or "valid" because in the end both "sides are doing something different which doesn't really denys each other - two different storys that yet reflect the one world we all are living in, so vast it's more diverse than any corporate "multiverse"

(Oh also on the whole "problematic" aspect - I think in the end one gets if they aren't some sicko, that yeah, one aspects the charachters in time to get over the charachter flaws that would make a relationship be not the best idea - like yeah Crona should become more of an independet person before "dating" Maka, so unless one wants Crona to stay either a murderous psychopath or a baby that has to be cared for by Maka 24/7, I think there isn't some problem - and why one then probably writes in the change in their interpretation - like I'm trying in my stupid comic, and why I didn't tag it as a CROMA story, firstly because I tried not to get into this whole shipping thing, which probably would have been better and why I' try to get out of it again lol, and because I thought that yeah a lot of things should happen before and that there is a lot potential beyond some generic "fluff" story or whatever people like) So yeah, this will be my last post about "shipping", and I hope people get something from it - worst case scenario CroMa and SoMa shippers can be united in actually having evidence and reason for their shit unlike shit like KidMa which has no canon at all lol But hey, I won't be an asshole for once and say even that could be an interesting thing to explore - the story of a bookworm that competes with the privileged talented Kid, only to see the imperfections as not things to gloat about but as what binds them all. IDK

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! See you again in 2024, and if this post only causes more drama, as allways:

Yeah...Sorry

[sometimesrosy]

I think you completely misinterpreted my ask lol. I had said that I don’t blame Eliza that I’m sure the fans have been assholes and I never said they se owed us anything. But Bellamy and Clarke’s relationship is always a huge part of the show and they NEVER talk about it. I don’t care if they don’t talk about it in a romantic way, I just want them to acknowledge us in some way. I want to be able to hear what the actors actually have to think. I don’t want her to “give me my romantic fantasies”

I don’t care about any of that. I care about the actors and the characters and how and why they played certain scenes the way they did. Idk if I phrased it weird or something but you completely missed the point of my ask. I also did[n’t] know about the whole airport and booing situation, so thanks for letting me know. But I also said it probably was fear from the other side of the fandom.

No, nonny. That is not what you said. 

you said

but I can’t imagine being a fan and seeing yourself represented in a ship only for the actor playing a part of that ship to say “Bellarke shit.” I mean?? How disrespectful is that? I don’t care how you sway it that’s just plain rude.

And

then in season 3 they acted horrible towards BC shippers. Dismissing a large part of the fandom was honestly such a low blow and I remember feeling terrible about it. 

and

I still can’t believe an actress would say that. It’s not a racist/homophobic or ridiculously problematic ship and I just, I don’t know. I think it was a pretty careless thing to say

Maybe you didn’t mean to say those things. You didn’t talk about wanting to ask Eliza questions about the show and characters at all, or even be acknowledged. That wasn’t the subject of your ask. It was about  Bellarke fans being treated nicely. Bob was nice so he was good. Eliza was not so she was bad, but you were feeling better because she was nicer now, but you still don’t forgive her for what she said in the middle of the shipwars, because it was disrespect. You called her disrespectful and rude and horrible. You did not say, “i just want to talk about bellarke’s place in the show, not even romantically.”

Maybe you didn’t realize that the way you talk about Eliza is actually all about your feelings about not being validated by her, without ever considering that she’s not a fictional character, but a real person who is experiencing REAL pressure to give ALL the fans what they want even though what they want is COMPLETELY opposing. Whatever she said would be attacked. Any positive comment about her character’s story would be seen as negative by thousands of people. Who don’t hesitate to boo her or call her fat or send her hate. 

She has a tactic to only talk about ships that have already happened on screen at the time that she is speaking. That means she was going to talk about a relationship with Lxa when that was still the primary romantic relationship on the board. Particularly with the harm that the dead lesbian trope inflicted upon the CL fandom. Which, far from being indefensible, is actually reasonable. They were told that BC was not happening yet and to not talk about. The fandom never stopped asking about it. Sometimes she loses her composure. I can personally say, that after 3 years of fandom harassment on tumblr, this is also reasonable and understandable. She’s a real person and she’s not perfect. Sometimes she’s going to be rude because fans are AWFUL to her. And you need to recognize that and even own up to where you are contributing.

 I understand if you didn’t know about Australia or Brazil, but it wouldn’t take much awareness to recognize how awful the shipwars were, and how she was stuck in the middle and how both fandoms are ALWAYS ready to turn on her for saying the wrong thing.

I mean. Look how you feel right now when I “misunderstood” what you meant. It is upsetting. I didn’t misunderstand you. You weren’t considering the situation from her point of view because you consider your own point of view to be the most valid.

 It’s perfectly understandable that you WOULD consider your POV about Eliza’s unfairness to your ship, because the Bellarke FANDOM reinforces that Bellarke is the most important thing. We tell each other how important Bellarke is to the story, how right we are, how unjust the CLs are, how biased Eliza is. Again and again, we tell this story to ourselves in the echo chamber of the fandom. Please understand. I do this, too. I love Bellarke, but at the same time, I am aware that it is NOT the only way to interpret the show and other interpretations are just as valid. You have to keep checking your POV up against the canon and reality in order to get a full picture and not be overly biased and self centered. Fandom is, almost by definition, overly biased. 

We are no better than the MRAs who created a fanvid of TLJ with all the women removed. Fandom in Star Wars is no different than fandom in The 100. We do that, to emphasize our ship or our POV. How many pure Bellarke fanvids have there been? How many CLs have erased Bellamy’s presence or turned him into a pure villain and made the grounders the heroes? This is what we do as fans. We claim ownership over the show, the story, the ships and even the actors. And then we refuse to share canon with any other fans who have different ideas. And I just don’t agree with it.

Let people have their ships, or not ship at all. Let the writers tell the story they are telling even if it doesn’t match the one in your head. Let the actors experience their lives and career in ways that make sense to them.They all have reasons for the choices they make and the actions they take and they may not be what we would choose. But that’s because they are outside of us. They are telling THEIR story and living their lives. And the actors have to make choices based on THEIR lives, too. Protecting themselves and their career… a thing that none of you have to worry about– although there are people out there who would dearly love to ruin me personally, and there are people in our fandom who were actually professionally ruined over shipwars. So when people get on Eliza for her behavior with these exact kind of people who have exactly been targeting me personally. Nope. I’m not siding with you over Eliza on this. 

Fandom is out of control. And I don’t see that stopping until we start recognizing that we don’t own the stories, shows, characters, ships OR actors. Fandom doesn’t come first. It’s not okay to spread nasty comments about a woman just because she doesn’t support your ship, for whatever reasons. Sorry. 

I can’t make it okay. And you DID do that. You were NOT understanding of her position. Fandom does not consider Eliza at all, sometimes, except for how she can feed their ship and that is entirely problematic. If you didn’t consider the meaning of what you did and didn’t intend to say all that, it means you weren’t being thoughtful, not that you didn’t say it. huh. Just like Eliza.

No more of this calling people racist or lesbophobic or rude or fat or sending out anons to hate people, to them or about them– all over a fictional ship. We decide when something is problematic and isn’t, and for some reason we never decide that our OWN opinions are problematic even when we are being hypocritical and doing to others what we say is bad when done to us. You’ve GOT to check yourself, and stop pointing at how problematic everyone else is. Consider your OWN actions as more important than someone else’s, because that’s who you have control over. Yourself. 

I just can’t anymore. I’m really angry at fandom in general. We don’t have to be like this. We don’t have to hate everyone for not agreeing with us. We don’t have to selfishly hoard the canon and refuse to allow anyone else their own interpretations. If someone EVER says that you have no right to your interpretation, they are ABSOLUTELY wrong. If they don’t like it or disagree or your OTP is their NOTP,  that’s not wrong, but disparaging someone or hating them or silencing them, that IS wrong. 

Respect people. Even when they are different or have different opinions than you. Eliza had/has her own opinion. And that it doesn’t support yours is NOT problematic. She doesn’t owe you Bellarke support. It’s unfortunate that she can’t speak openly, but that is NOT her fault. She was rude. Yes. But the fandom has been so rude to her, and she’s supposed to accept it because they are her fans. And she has, for the most part. 

But I’m not going to say she was wrong for being rude, because I understand her position, even though it hurt me personally. She didn’t consider our feelings. She considered hers. Do you ever consider her feelings when you judge her?