#shigaraki tomura - criticism

[embers-of-the-league]

Okay, so here's where we're at apparently

Tomura is dead

Toga is dead (or, let's just call it as it is, she committed suicide) - this is despite the fact that if she died other characters (read: heroes) should have died as well, but didn't (Bakugo and Edgeshot for example)

Dabi is presumably still in the hospital (since we didn't see a funeral), unable to move or do anything on his own

Spinner wrote his book, but where he is and how he's actually doing is unknown - presumably he still has to deal with multiple quirks that aren't his own and are tearing at his body

Compress is alive but where he currently is is unknown - he read Spinner's book (and that's it)

Kurogiri exploded?? And nobody has bothered to mention anything about him since

Twice has been dead for a while, but his murderer is not only free of charge but also the head of the HPSC (which still exists btw)

Other things:

The hero ranking system still exists

Seemingly no real changes have been made which would help victims like the LOV before they felt like they had to turn to villainy to be heard/seen/understood

Deku gets to be a hero again by the power of ~technology~ - kinda making the whole deal about him losing his quirk feel pointless

Not from this chapter, but I still feel like it's very important to point out that it's heavily implied that Rei is just gonna take care of Enji (her abuser) now and probably for the rest of time

The few good things:

Ochako bringing more focus on mental health

That was it, I have nothing else

[nagitosstolenhand]

i don't like the growing opinion that people are being 'too hard' on deku for his failing to save shigaraki.

i've seen quite a few people complaining that a lot of the bnha-critical crowd are being too mean to deku for getting tomura killed, arguing that it isn't really his fault, and that hes a 16 year old child soldier who's been failed by almost every adult in his life, why should we be putting all of this on his shoulders? hes just a kid after all?

and the truth is, they're right. deku IS a 16 year old boy whos had the fate of the world thrust on his shoulders. but the story itself just plainly refuses to acknowledge this.

the narrative doesn't acknowledge how fucked up having a school that trains literal children how to be combo cop-celebrities is. it only tentatively acknowledges the fact that a universe having combo cop-celebrities is fucked up, and even then the only people who ever point this out are antagonists, who are portrayed and treated in-universe as untrustworthy. the narrative doesn't care how fucked up dekus circumstances are. the narrative treats deku like hes a fucking messiah here to touch the hearts of the evil depressed villains with his magical empathetic heart of gold before they get blown up or just sent to fucking superhell for daring to challenge the status quote.

deku isn't a person. he's barely even a fucking character at this point. he's a plot device, and a mouth piece for the objectively shitty themes bnha is trying to spout. the themes that tell you that if you're mistreated by society and want to do something about it, you're a villain. that disrupting the status quote and refusing to repent to some random teenage boy spouting empty platitudes at you means you deserve to get sent to fucking superhell. the themes that portray people fighting for civil change as mass murdering supervillains. the themes that look the audience dead in the eye and can call deku the greatest hero to ever live.

deku, who barely spared a second thought to lady nagant telling him the truth about the hero commission. who spouts meaningless platitudes about heroism and morality at nagant, and aoyama, and toga and shigaraki, when even the thought that he should question the world around him comes up. who's constantly talked about as this truly kind, empathetic person, but hasn't spared an empathetic thought to literally anyone who is classified as a villain. who listened to every authority figure around him except the ones who asked him to question his worldview. who saw la bravas tears, shigarakis various breakdowns, himikos plead for understanding, chisakis catatonic state, lady nagants truth, and barley batted a fucking eye. deku, who killed tomura shigaraki.

people don't criticize deku for failing shigaraki because they just hate deku. people criticize deku because of what he represents. because hes a mouthpiece for the atrocious morals and themes of this ideologically rotten manga. because any character he had was chopped up to bits in favor of the incomplete husk we have now. people criticize deku because hes the main character of my hero academia. theres nothing more damning then that.

[denkisauce]

my growing collection from redacted dot com 🥲

[haine-kleine]

after sitting with my thoughts about the epilogue for some time, I think the thing that broke the story had started right after Dabi's dance. said thing is LOV' utterly out of character treatment of each other and Shigaraki specifically.

them just standing there and passively observing the scene makes absolutely zero sense, if you use anything from their previously established relationships within the organisation for reference. especially with All for One's creepy comments. Spinner even points out shortly before this chapter that AFO!Shigaraki seems nothing like his normal self and this person is not the one he had chosen to follow.

and yes, Spinner does approach screaming Shigaraki and tries to help him, and his concern later leads him to seeing Shigaraki's mutated form in the cave, and on its own this development for Spinner is in line with his character and all around fine. pretty reminiscent of Toga and Twice, too.

(except Spinner is not allowed to really help Shigaraki in any way, unlike Toga was allowed to help Twice, and this entire thing between Shigaraki and Spinner only ends with Spinner's regrets and survivor's guilt instead of anything good or meaningful that isn't meaningless angst porn)

it isn't Spinner approaching Shigaraki that is the issue, it's the other's complete lack of action or even reaction besides appearing mildly disturbed. this is simply out of character for all of them, just judging by Twice's example who had similar breakdowns and wasn't plainly ignored by the others until his fit stops. this reaction makes even less sense, when you take into account the current state of the League. Twice had just been murdered by Hawks, the double agent who had infiltrated the League via Dabi, and Mister Compress had just sacrificed himself to give the League a chance for escape, and was sent to Tartarus immediately after his condition was no longer life threatening. Kurogiri is also being held captive by the heroes. there are only four of them left, with two dead and two captured. and none of them even mention the dead or the captured outside of the context of Kurogiri and his quirk.

this straight out makes no sense if you look back to the Overhaul arc and remember how far Shigaraki and the rest of them were willing to go to avenge Magne's death and Mr Compress' destroyed arm. this was important.

the event had motivated Shigaraki to be a better leader, because he had realized these people depend on him, and he won't let them be hurt under his protection. it had started the seed of self-doubt in Jin which would eventually grow to the desperation that allowed him to overcome the mental block against his quirk in the MVA arc, because he wanted to do everything he possibly could to help the League. it allowed him to make his clones despite the crippling trauma, because he saw Toga's hurt, bleeding body, and he didn't want her to die.

even fucking Giran, a broker whose very profession requires him to care about himself and his own well-being first and foremost, had sacrificed all of his fingers to prevent Redestro from getting his hands on the League. because he wants to protect them, to save them. and then we never actually see his mutilated hands or hear anything from him ever again.

and when Twice actually dies? all we get in response to that are two upset faces from Dabi and Toga's fury. that's it.

i really want to stress how out of character this barely-present reaction is, because Magne's example is right there and when Overhaul had killed her, the League knew each other for no longer than a month. this League has been together for at least half a year, had been through thick and thin together, had spent months on the run, homeless, having no one but each other to rely on, has defeated the Meta Liberation Army, quite literally, with the power of their friendship. they all cared enough about each other and Shigaraki specifically to stay with him during those months they had to fight Gigantomachia with barely any breaks for rest, still homeless, barely scraping by. it was imperative that they all survive through this together, especially for Shigaraki, who had went on this quest of getting stronger at least partly so that he would become a more reliable protector for the League. and when Twice falls victim to the hero who had murdered him in cold blood, because no one except for Dabi was there to save him, Shigaraki doesn't even get to react to Twice's death, and possibly never even learns about the fact.

on topic of Dabi, his reaction being exactly two frames of sad expressions and including the footage of Twice's murder into his broadcast, and ending immediately after that, also makes no sense. Dabi is someone who holds himself accountable and despite his declarations, cares about the League, it's the very reason he was keeping Hawks from the League and sprinted to Twice as soon as he realized Hawks' intentions with him, to protect him. Dabi's unsuccessful attempt to save Twice is another iteration of Overhaul, a combination of Shigaraki and Twice's roles in the tragedy. but unlike Shigaraki, who had steeled himself into taking care of his subordinates and becoming a responsible and strong leader, or Twice who had never forgotten about his role in the incident, Dabi just somehow forgets about the entire thing as soon as the first war is over. Toga is the one whom the narrative allows to actively react to Twice's death and express her grief. it makes sense that her reaction would be the strongest, as she was the closest with Twice, but why are two LOV members no longer allowed to care about the same incident at the same time? why aren't they allowed to protect each other anymore, when Giran, who is not even in the League, had made that sacrifice for them?

These are pretty small things, but it's these instances of Toga and Dabi preventing Machia from being injected with the sedative, protecting the League that are sorely missing in the second war.

and the biggest act of devotion and protection to the League, which was the last time we saw anything like this for them, Mister Compress' last moments with the League.

Mutilating his own body just to buy them five seconds to possibly escape. Because he loved the League, because he wanted all of them to be happy and achieve their dreams, to be free, and to live.

and in return for the favour, not only do they not come back for him like they did for Kurogiri (because his quirk is important for the plot, while Compress' isn't), but none of them mention Compress ever again. same with Twice (with the exception of Toga), same with Magne. from this point onwards, none of them are allowed by the plot to even care about the League of Villains. the interpersonal relationships between two individuals still shine through, occasionally, like Spinner's devotion to Shigaraki (and him alone), Dabi and Toga's pyromaniac trauma lane visit to her house and him giving her Twice's blood, Kurogiri reaching out to Shigaraki in the very end. but what about the League? ahd what about the dead members of the League, or Mister Compress?

somehow, at the point of the final war it boils down to the generalized conflict of heroes vs villains and the morality gymnastics involved in the concept. on its own, this would have been an okay development, if the examples the story was using to prove its point weren't people who had become very close friends and who had lost four people to this war against the heroes.

if the individual conflicts, like Toga's desperation to be acknowledged as human being deserving of affection, Dabi's familial abuse trauma and Shigaraki's lifelong manipulation by All for One not giving him any chance to be saved at all, were the finishing line of the villains' story development, why join them within the League at all? LOV is a separate concept functioning as a collective uniting all these villains, giving them a place to belong and people who give a fuck whether they live or die. except not anymore, because for some reason after the first war this concept is scratched completely.

so why not make them mere acquaintances who sometimes collaborate to bother the heroes together, if the bond between them got in the way of the story and wasn't the point of the story? why prove the depth of their bond with the Overhaul and My Villain Academia arcs? why make Shigaraki develop relationships and a sense of responsibility for these people at all, if in the very end his desire to save these people is denied by the author himself?

the previous arcs have spent a great deal of effort establishing that the villains are human too. they have human feelings, human desires and human relationships. so why is it that in the final arc their ability to experience human emotions towards each other is turned on and off manually by the author? at the very end even the author stops pretending like anything happening to the villains is evaluated on the scale of human experiences (unlike the heroes, whose injuries and deaths are talked about and mourned in great detail) and Kurogiri and Shigaraki are wiped out like plot inconveniences rather than important and well written characters.

honestly? it's ironically meta that the story ended up proving the very point it has spent 400 chapters arguing against.

[newtscamandersbf]

saw this ss on twt and im sorry but im starting to think some of yall actually like when characters are predators cause first it was accusing afo of p3dophilia / sa (despite the fact grooming can be non-sexual) and now its this shit 😭😭

like this is actually crazy yall we are told MULTIPLE times that toga feels safe with the league because they are the only ones who accepted her for who she was 😭😭 its not like she was the only woman or kid in the league either like at some point there were magne and mustard. the league lets anyone in regardless of background this is soo ..

[atlasofoverthinking]

The Problem with the League of Villains

this is just me ranting after reading many people say that the lov deserved a better ending (i agree with them don't worry). most of that stuff has already been said but i'm bored and need something to write

so why is everyone disappointed?

by definition, an antagonist is someone that goes against the main character(s) and a villain is someone who does immoral and/or illegal things (wow, shocking)

so by definition, the league of villains is aptly named. shigaraki and dabi are mass murderers, toga is a killer too, and even if the others are 'less dangerous' they're all guilty of terorism and kidnapping a teenager.

not nice, right? then why would anyone would want them to have a good ending?

long story short: horikoshi made the league too sympathetic and relatable

when horikoshi has decided to make them funny, he's decided to make them likeable. that's not enough though. you can find a fictional villain funny and not root for them (for some reason the examples that comes to my mind are the disney villains. captain hook is hilarious but no one wants him to win)

the cause of everyone's disappointment is the relatable part. everyone in the league has gone through stuff viewers can relate. touya, shigaraki and toga have been abused; twice has mental health issues (and stuggling to get a job is relatable too lmao); spinner has been discriminated against... you get the idea

and even without knowing their backstory, most of the league's fights can be considered noble: they want to change society and make the world a better place. to take a more precise example, the league kidnapped bakugou because they thought he had gone through similar struggle as them

(this is mr compress talking in chapter 85) as far as i've seen, most of the fandom either think bakugou being chained and muzzled at the end of the sport festival was just comic relief or agree that it was fucked up

so yeah, you can't put a group of people rejected by society, who just want a better world and expect people to not like them

and that's why their ending is disappointing (the rest contains heavy spoilers of the last few chapters of mha)

they're all either in jail or six feet underground. we rationally could understand it, they're all criminals/villains so of course they wouldn't get a happy ending and face consequences for their actions. the only one who could have gotten away with it is shigaraki because of all the grooming/brainwashing he's gone through and maybe toga because she's a child

but if you relate to a character, you want them to get a happy ending. of course fans would want dabi to be at peace, but instead he's forced to spend his last moments being stared at by his abuser). of course fans would want shigaraki to be free from afo (but instead his only freedom was death). of course fans would want toga to be understood and cared for (but she never had that opportunity)

that's not very 'save to win' out of you horikoshi

maybe it's just a shortcut made by the fandom, but the league are seen more as victims of abuse than actual criminals. i mean, what's more important in dabi's story? the fact that he burned himself alive after overworking himself to get his abusive father's attention, or the fact that he's burned people alive? probably both, but there's more focus on the first element.

and obviously we would want abuse victims to get a happy ending

basically, their ending isn't coherent with what we've seen of them, and that's why people are disappointed

btw, the same logic applies to stain. some fans agree with stain's reasoning bc he's fighting against corruption. of course, his logic is stupid and he's delusional but he's introduced not long after we've discovered shouto's past. you can't say "one of the most popular heroes is abusing + all he wants is to get n°1 to satisfy his own ego" and then follow with "see that guy fighting against corruption? he's bad, don't do that"

the clever way to make sure no one would agree with stain would have been to make the heroes fight against injustice with good methods. i live for the fanfics in which izuku takes down the hpsc

okay i'm done ranting thanks for reading

[teapetal44]

TW: ABUSE, CHILD ABUSE

“He wants to air this dirty laundry to the world does he…? Dabi, you fiend…you’ve been waiting for this moment…when they couldn’t prevent mass destruction…and faith in heroes is wavering.” - chapter 292

I truly, wholeheartedly, believe that MHA as a story upholds the myth of the perfect victim. I do not want to discuss if Horikoshi did that on purpose, or subconsciously because of inner bias – I find no meaning in doing so. For me the execution of an idea, in the grand scheme of the narrative, holds more value than the intention of the author. I’ve also had my fair share of people infantilizing Asian authors in the anime community for their poor writing decisions for one lifetime. It’s patronizing to both the author and the people reading it. Whether or not Horikoshi intended for his themes of abuse to paint the picture they did does not matter, because that’s how it reads as.

MHA puts victims of abuse in narrow boxes and softly dictates what’s an acceptable reaction to said abuse. Victims are continuously walking a tightrope between being deserving of compassion and sympathy and being unredeemable monsters who are too far gone and are only good for martyrdom after being put down.  

Eri fits the clean cut depiction of abuse victims that media usually gears towards. She is untouched by the cruelty around her - she preserves her innocence and kindness. She isn't assertive, but rather meek and passive. She doesn't fight back with force. And when offered help, she is receptive to it. That is not to say that Eri's depiction doesn't have a place in fiction, or that her portrayal can't be representative of the experiences of some - as we all deal with trauma and the inhumanity people throw at us differently. We see the same thing in the portrayal of Fuyumi, who shares many of the qualities discussed above. The same thing applies to her - i personally love the idea of all the siblings having different reaction to their childhood trauma and abuse. It shows that victims are not some type of monolith.

But the narrative treats the "forgiving" or "receptive to help/support" victims of abuse with more grace and with much more kindness. if you are willing to forgive, or the very least be quietly tolerant, the story grants you a happy ending. Forgiveness isn't a bad thing, it is an individual choice - but an abuse victim shouldn't have to do it for them to have a happy ending.

In a vacuum Eri and Fuyumi's character arcs and depictions of abuse are good but it becomes a problem when that's the only experience and type of victim we ever hold in high value or recognize as valid and deserving of compassion. Which the story reinforces.

Touya and Tenko's backstories aren't pretty nor comfortable or easy to sit through. Their responses to abuse aren't either. Reactive abuse is very much real.

[gece-misin-nesin]

The fact that Horikoshi had ALL the opportunity to have a "power of friendship" moment with the League coming together and breaking Tomura out of the possession/mind control and going on to band together against AFO but instead chose to kill them off or imprison them without any closure is my villain origin story

[stillness-in-green]

Some thoughts on The Discourse about the last BNHA cover

(Note: This Discourse was on Twitter. I don’t know how much of this may have been said here on Tumblr, so consider this either my contribution or just me reporting back on drama from other fronts.)

So, I saw a lot of back and forth over there between people who didn’t like the cover and people who did, and I spent a little while mulling it over. It seemed to me that the people who didn’t like it had a good point, but one they were not articulating particularly well, possibly thanks to the character limit and possibly also because the people talking about it tended to phrase their objections in sarcastic, consciously exaggerated terms because that’s the language months and months of dealing with the truly insufferable Horikoshi Defense Squad on Twitter primed them to use.

So what is the point?  Basically this: In going for the lazy/easy callback in both the cover design and Dai (plate-hair kid)'s role in the final chapter more generally, Horikoshi landed on an "everything comes full circle" ending when what the story desperately needed was an indicator of change.

We didn't need to know that a kid with low self-confidence and nothing to speak of in the quirk department can still become a Pro Hero if he[1] wants to.  We already knew that because it's what the whole story of BNHA was about!  Deku passing the torch/paying it forward is nice if all you care about is Deku's personal arc, but it's sheer reductiveness if you care about literally anything else.  If there was going to be a kid getting Deku's encouragement and help at the end, if that's the ending Hori was absolutely set on, it shouldn't have been the Deku Redux kid; it shouldn't have been the weak kid who has already been metaphorically proven capable of becoming a Hero.

1: And of course it would be a boy.

It should have been the troubled kid, the one from the bad family situation, the one who isn't sure whether he even believes in this Hero thing.  It should have been the kid who, if nothing about Hero Society had changed, would’ve been rejected by the whole corrupt system—in so many words, the Tenko Redux kid.  That's the one who we saw could not become a Hero under the previous system.  That's who we needed to demonstrate the system's improvement.

Instead, all we get is Deku helping himself.  And it fits, I guess, because “himself” is the only sort of person Deku ever wanted to save anyway—remember that in the very first chapter, Deku tells All Might that he wants to be a Hero because he was never “saved” as a kid and so he thinks saving is the coolest thing ever.  Implicitly, then, Deku wanted to be the kind of Hero who could have saved the kid he was, and that tendency to reserve his compassion for people he can recognize himself in—the crying children and the Hero wannabes—is consistent throughout the series.  Dai, then, simply becomes the very last of these examples, the chance for Deku to tell his middle school self that he, too, can be a great Hero.

And that’s quite a choice, isn’t it?  Take a second to consider the implications there. The metaphorical parallel Deku helps is his middle school self, not his childhood self—there’s no evidence that Dai was bullied on the same level young Izuku was, and we sure didn’t see anyone telling him to jump off a roof.  So, who does save those children, then, in this grand, improved version of Hero Society?  Does anyone?

Well, not really. Not that we’re shown. Indeed, the child who was the closest analogue to young Izuku—a weak and seemingly quirkless boy who stuck his neck out for other rejected children, who still stubbornly wanted to be a Hero despite a parent's disapproval—was Tenko, and Deku pointedly did not save him.

To be clear, I don’t mean that just in the sense that Deku failed to save the adult Tenko became, but even in the emotional sense that the series clearly wants me to believe Deku succeeded at, the saving of the boy's heart? I don’t think Deku even managed that.  Sure, he might have protected the echo of that child from a few memories, might have held his hands for a few exchanges of dialogue, but then the boy transformed back into the form of the Villain he'd become and was swallowed down the spiritual maw of the man from whom society failed to save Tenko to begin with! And what was Deku doing as this happened? Absolutely nothing but yelling impotently as he got blown backward and out of the mindscape.

Imagine that Deku had found some way to cheer up Izumi Kouta only for Muscular to kill the kid thirty seconds later.  No one would be saying, “I think Deku still saved him—his heart, anyway,” if Deku got Kouta to smile and admit that Heroes were actually pretty cool only to do nothing but scream helplessly as he watched Muscular pulverize Kouta’s ribcage with one gentle squeeze.[2]

2: Mind you, this comparison is flawed!  Unlike AFO’s vestige, Muscular doesn’t turn up to kill a child as a direct result of Deku’s own actions. Also unlike the events of the final battle, Deku doesn't jump up and personally administer the killing blow to the still-screaming victim, either.

It just leaves me thinking about some of the stuff @codenamesazanka has said about how the narrative treats Shigaraki and Deku helping him: not as something Deku has a duty to do, not something Hero Society on the whole owes Shigaraki (and all the other metaphorical expy/future Shigarakis), but rather a bonus, a nice extra, a demonstration to shine up Deku's Hero cred because he's making efforts no one else would bother with and that no one would reasonably expect him to make. It's not Deku’s job to save the Tenkos or the young Izukus of the world; apparently that just falls to society at large.

So then, what was the point of making Tenko/Tomura such an extreme case of someone who started in a similar place to Deku?  Why make him, also, a weak kid who was told he couldn't be a Hero, if you're not going to have Deku save him in the way no one saved Deku himself?

From where I'm sitting, the answer is, "It seemed like a good idea to Horikoshi at the time, but proved to be poorly thought out."  But if Deku failing to save his own closest childhood analogue was where the story was going the whole time, then Shigaraki should never have been used to parallel Deku to begin with.  It's just a damned waste of Shigaraki as a character, an insult to everything he represented, to use him for ~the parallels~ throughout the entirety of the story except the very beginning and the very end.

Anyway, Pro Heroes are bullshit and the ending should have been them being radically reconceived from the ground up with input from all the people they failed to save.  But again, if you have to still have Heroes-qua-Heroes at the end, and you have to have some stupid thematic echo because you as an author think callbacks are the single most compelling storytelling tool of all time, then everything we got on Dai should have been for Scissors-kun instead, and here I am very much including Dai's scene before the first war. An unsettling scene of a strange child with his mouth sewn shut, stuck in a straitjacket in a dark room should have been the last thing we saw before launching into the day of the raids, an apparent element for the future in the same way that so many future Villains were first shown in the wake of Stain's arrest.

See, Shigaraki’s own destructiveness is what ultimately frees Scissors-kun from the basement, “saving” this rejected, abused child in a way no Hero ever managed or even knew to try, just as Shigaraki brought light and a strange sort of hope to the lives of so many others whom Heroes failed.  However, Shigaraki couldn't carry his ambitions through to the end. He was never able to meet the kid he indirectly saved, never able to offer that appallingly abused victim an avenue for his signature brand of rough justice. Heroes stopped him from doing so. So then, who will help Scissors-kun?

If we’re to believe that the story's protagonist has made a real difference, that Deku and his classmates have changed the world for the better, then we don't need to see them helping a kid who we already know is going to turn out fine because “he” aleady did. We need to see them help the people that previously only Villains would have helped, picking up the torch they struck from Shigaraki’s hands.

So sure, keep the scene with Granny Evil and Scissors-kun if you must, to show that it’s not only Heroes but also the broader Hero Society that’s changed. After that, though, show Deku stepping in.  Show him taking an interest in this kid as a way to keep his promises—to Shigaraki, that the rejection and obliviousness that he sought to destroy have indeed been destroyed and will remain so, and to Spinner, that Deku will remember Shigaraki for the rest of his life. 

When Deku is older and in a position to give advice to a kid who’s floundering and uncertain of what to do with his life because of what people around him say about him, make that character echo the characters the old system failed to save, not the character who the entire story proved would do just fine.

For god's sake, ditch Deku Redux.

Now, I know the obvious rejoinder here: We can’t use Deku’s story to say that BNHA already showed us that Dai would be fine because Dai has a quirk where Deku did not, therefore Deku’s path would not be open to Dai.  To this, I would reply that neither Deku nor Dai specify that Dai wants/is able to be a top Hero, merely that he be the kind of Hero people can admire—which the story has also already proven true!

Ojiro got into UA with nothing but one (1) extra limb.

Manual has a perfectly middling quirk that turned out to be absolutely crucial in two different wars because it was the right quirk at the right time.

Wash’s quirk makes strong bubbles. 

Like, this list is not short.  Manifest Plates might or might not make Dai Hero Billboard material, but one of the major points of the endgame was the sublime and noble value of helping when you can, in the way that you can.  So to reiterate, we didn’t need that to be proven again in the epilogue.

If anything, going the route of retreading the same story makes the epilogue much worse! Not only do we not get to see how this society is helping the people the old society most profoundly failed—victims who fall through the cracks and become Villains—but in seeing yet another a weak kid being mocked for his heroic aspirations, we find that we’ve barely moved a step beyond the exact same place we started.

That’s the message Horikoshi chose to go with, for both the closing chapters of the story and the story’s final volume cover.  Truly, as art that summarizes the story goes, it’s a masterful choice!  And that's the whole problem. The cover of Volume 42 is a perfect illustration of the self-absorbed, cynical, cyclical nature of BNHA's endgame. Little wonder, then, that it's hated by the same people who hated said endgame.

[bibibbon]

MHA and the bystander effect (long post)

MHA's society suffers heavily from the bystander effect.

I wish that this plot point was further explored and this could of been where we actually take all mights character somewhere and not waste him on the whole iron might bs.

It can be argued that we first see this as early as the first chapter where we have people simply standing there watching a hero take down a villain. In all retrospect when I see this I genuinely think of some kind of performance, the hero is a glorified soldier that has to elegantly perform their duty while ensuring the safety of lives and entertaining them.

We then have the attack with bakugo and the sludge villain. People again are standing there watching another performance go down except here the heroes don't know what to do and it can be argued that they aren't trying hard enough at all. The heroes look at the situation, say they don't have any compatible quirk that helps the situation and simply stand in the sidelines waiting for someone to come and help that's after the manh failed attempts. Now this absolutely wouldn't work considering the victim in this circumstance was getting choked to death and him struggling even more literally caused a fire and property damage. I think it's interesting how no one thought of simply aiming at the sludge villains eyes (his obvious weak spot) and it was izuku in his panic that actually helped save Katsuki and gave all might the strength and confidence to step up and do something. What's even more interesting is that at that moment all might like the other bystanders was also contributing to the bystander effect simply standing there distanced from the fight and involved in it at the same time.

The third time we see this is during the UA entrance exams. Everyone is focused on getting points and destroying robots not really paying attention to their surroundings. After releasing the zero pointer everyone priorities themselves and starts to run with no one sparing ochako (who is injured) an eye and offering to help her. Rather the unconscious thoughts are that someone else will help her and it's full of people trying to prioritise themselves as this is also an exam. Izuku also priorities himself and tries to get away until he sees ochako and this is the second time where he recklessly runs into danger.

I think what's really interesting is that nedzu made this the point of the test which is something that iida says to izuku when they meet again. Iida points out that saving peoples lives and helping them is indeed the point of the test and heroism yet the test is very much structured in a way where you need to destroy to save and you need to prioritise yourself which can be the test just being a microcosm for the real hero society.

We mainly and clearly see the bystander effect in action when it comes to shigaraki tomuras backstory. It can be argued that this is one of the major reasons what drives shigaraki to villainy. Throughout tenko's backstory people see him suffer yet they don't help him physically at all or are quite late to do so. This starts from his father's punishments to him aimlessly roaming the streets scared and alone just for all for one to come along and offer a hand to him. A villain ends up helping a child instead of the people who are supposed to do so (Iam ignoring the contents of chapter 420 that revealed that AFO was behind this all along)

Tenko's backstory also emphasises just how much society is dependent on heroes that they think they aren't responsible for anything and any remains of social responsibility are rather diminished as people are busy and turn a blind eye to an obviously scared kid who is suffering.

Heck we even have momo a class 1A member acknowledge that the bystander effect is a very big thing within hero society yet no one does much to reduce this. It seems that hero society actually makes it somewhat of a taboo to even intervene in situations and help people when you aren't a hero which is why labels such as vigilantes exists. This could be linked to what we find out what happens to lady nagant and how she was in charge of killing vigilantes or anyone who opposed the government.

You can say that the government uses heroes (like hawks and lady nagant) as a way to control citizens but this turns out to be a double edged sword for them as time goes on and all mights notorious reign of 'peace' falls the people start to wake up you can say.

Hero society especially with the rise of all might and the all might era has created a society that is rampant in the bystander effect and a society that relies, worships and glorifies heroes to a toxic extreme. Obviously this has negatively effected everyone in different ways. It's not only civilians that suffer but also the heroes who are put into extreme situations and have to live up to incredibly toxic and high standards while also appealing to the public. I think a great example of this is all might who is a character who suffered from the system yet upheld and was somewhat responsible for creating it.

After the war arc we see the hero society system crumble away and we see the complacent bystander effect fade away and get people become distrustful or heroes and anyone around them. During this arc we also see the once glorified and worshipped all might statue become vandalised and people abandoning any hope of the hero system or hero society in general. Chaos and panic are rampant and people have lost hope as the system dissolves.

In conclusion, if horikoshi actually handled this theme of bystander effect in hero society properly then we could of gotten a compelling story where villains or victims that suffer from it are saved. Hori could of also used this to show how flawed hero society is and how corrupt the hero public safety commission is as well.

Add on

Horikoshi during the vigilante arc also has civilians realise their compliance in all of this and how the hero system set them up in a way which they can relax and watch without having to do anything as society crumbles. It's such a shame that horikoshi takes this and basically diminishes any proper hope by making the ending of the second war arc a disaster.

[mauradersdaughter]

The lack of emotional connection between Midoriya and Shigaraki jeopardized the 'Save the Villain' trope.

In the last season of 'My Hero Academia', we come face to face with the trope of 'Save the Villain', having a certain hero have a certain villain they can relate to. In Deku's case, that's Shigaraki. The two of them have a lot in common, as we see through out the show, but in the beginning, their main one is that one is the sucessor of the greatest hero and the other, the sucessor of the greatest villain. After time passes we see more and more similarities, some subtle, others not. All of that leads to the last season where Midoriya decides he's going to save Shigaraki (somehow) and tries to get him to stop.

Now, this is the thing, that line of "I want to save that little boy" felt cheap to me. Let me explain: That line is supposed to be impactful, it's supposed to mean something coming out of Izuku's lips; however, it doesn't. It doesn't, because it lacks emotional depth. -> It lacks emotional depth, because we didn't have scenes that showed why Midoriya would like to save Shigaraki (specifically), what made him connect to him.

We have no scenes of the two of them just talking, either about beliefs or any topic that they could other relate to each other. The only scene that comes close to that (and it's pretty much the only scene where they're not trying to punch each other) is the mall scene. And even that scene goes nowhere, it is just so that Shigaraki can blame All Might again. It could be a scene where the two of them discuss more and it could be the start of their connection, which doesn't include One for All or All for One. This beginning could grow by having them have more moments, expanding their relationship. It also would be good for later in the story when Midoriya tries to save Tenko, because then it would have a solid base that had grown into that point.

So, when you have the last chapters of Midoriya trying to save Shigaraki, it feels empty, because why would the main antagonist accept the offer? It's like having a random stranger ask you to trust them, why would you? you don't know them. They have no connection, no deep conversations and their relationship has been very poorly written. (also, how is beating the crap out of Shigaraki going to save him?) Not to mention, that in order for Midoriya to create a bond with Shigaraki, he'd need to understand his side; which seems impossible, since Izuku is never allowed to have "bad", ugly feelings or be anything more than the 'good boy that loves heroes and never critices hero society'. (this whole topic deserves a whole post on it's own).

Therefore, to have a 'Villain gets saved by the Hero' trope, it needs to have a reason why the villain would trust the hero, an emotional connection that would make the hero want to save the villain and a well developed relationship. All of which, BNHA didn't have, which is why it's no surprise that trope flopped with our main hero and villain.

[dudhsd]

You know what justice is? What peace is? Shigaraki and Dabi (and Twice ofc, and maybe Toga) living, and Endeavor and Hawks being dead. That would’ve been way better.

I call bullshit.

[autumnmobile12]

My Hero Academia: AFO's Other Allies

Maybe it's just because I watched the first installment of Arcane S2, but something I think would have been a really cool plotline in My Hero is if other allies of AFO had been introduced. Not the Doctor or Gigantomachia who were clearly his loyal followers. I mean other villain overlords who were part of his inner circle. An inner circle that collapsed in his absence.

All Might kills AFO, the classic power vacuum opens up, the remaining villain overlords fight amongst each other for dominance in the new order and their individual greed and pride destroys what’s left of AFO’s influence.

I've already made another post expressing my skepticism that AFO rose to power and other villains just took that laying down. Somebody had to have looked at the crown and wanted it badly enough to take him on, crazy as it might have been. But every villain overlord has his/her/their generals, lieutenants, constituents, whatever you want to call them. Overhaul had his loyal Eight Bullets, after all, and Dark Might had the entire Gollini family.

Arcane: Silco had the Chem-Barons. Not exactly loyal followers, but they feared him too much to know they couldn't overpower him.

Harry Potter: Voldemort's Death Eaters. He was pretty pissed none of them tried to find him after his 'death.'

Castlevania: Dracula's Generals. Again, not a completely loyal group and were in the stages of forming a coup, but there was still that level of fear that kept them in line.

D. Gray Man: The Millennium Earl's Noah Clan. Definitely loyal followers as they do regard each other as family.

Fullmetal Alchemist: Father and the Seven Homunculi. Another makeshift family of a kind.

In all honestly, I guess there is a canon explanation for the lack of AFO's allies: He does say All Might took out several of his 'friends,' so I guess that could have been part of the strategy. Incapacitate the Demon Lord by cutting off his limbs first, then going for the head so to speak.

But think about how interesting it would have been for Shigaraki to have to go about winning the support of AFO's old allies instead of the MLA plotline. Or if Re-Destro had been a former ally of AFO who was no more impressed by the skinny, gamer nobody and his ragtag coterie than Gigantomachia was. Or if another one of AFO’s former followers was trying to win over the Doctor’s support and Garaki wanted them both to prove their worth. Maybe the old allies have gotten used to the new order, accepted the golden age of villainy has passed in spite of All Might’s retirement, and they just aren’t willing to gamble what little they managed to keep after AFO’s fall.

It's a very The Old vs The New theme if we're pitting AFO's former followers against the League of Villains, but I think it would have still fit the tone in mirroring the hero students working to surpass their own predecessors. It would have presented Shigaraki with a shrewd choice to make: Do I bother winning over the has-beens in hopes they have invaluable experience to offer or do I eliminate them and risk making mistakes they could have counseled me about?

[denkisauce]

(bnha manga ending spoilers)

what was the point

what was the point

what was the point

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT 😭😭

what was the pointtttt

[haine-kleine]

The entire manga ending is a burning trash fire that falls on its head in all of the established thematic purposes, but what was done with Shigaraki's character might be one of the stupidest and plain evil writing decisions.

Shigaraki was established as an immature and arrogant AFO's heir and since they were separated after Kamino, his journey was all about learning to stand on his own, developing his own agenda, establishing and chasing the goals he set out for himself. In other words, since AFO's imprisonment, Shigaraki was gradually healing from years of grooming, brainwashing and social isolation.

His backstory revealed in the My Villain Academy arc had challenged the readers and their views of this character, showing his extreme trauma, his guilt as a 5 years old boy who had killed his entire family in a quirk accident. It also finally explained Shigaraki's fervent devotion to AFO, the only one who had reached out, who wanted to help, who cared.

Of course we were aware AFO's motives can't be pure. He was preparing Shigaraki as a future vessel for himself, a means to achieve his dream of living forever.

Then, by the last war arc, Shigaraki has all the agency, individuality, autonomy ripped away by AFO stealing his body. He spends the entire second war fighting for control, silenced by AFO and the narrative barely giving him any chance to talk. One of his main goals was protecting his comrades and their dreams - this is taken from him as well, the League spent the entire second war separated, not even getting one final chance to see each other. Shigaraki dies while thinking of his friends, of his goal to save them, which he will never be able to achieve. While Izuku was at least given a chance to directly confront Shigaraki on his final quest of trying to save him, Shigaraki spent the entire time even before the second war delirious, and until his death, he had never even learned what happened to his friends, the people who chose to follow him, trusted him and supported him.

The very last thing that happens to Shigaraki before his death, is learning that his entire life, everything that had happened to him, was caused by AFO and his schemes. This strips Shigaraki of the last of his agency, turning him into a martyr. His story is no longer one about the unfairness of the heroes-adoring society and hypocrisy, good VS bad victim, trauma and coping with it. His story is about becoming a victim of a creep who had been grooming him since he was 5. One who had tried his best to make a life for himself outside of his abuser, and then had this life cruelly taken from him. Shigaraki doesn't even get to talk or react to the fact he has to sacrifice himself for AFO to die. Izuku doesn't ask him, doesn't apologize to him, he just presents the fact plainly. Shigaraki just has to deal with it.

He went from a victim to a martyr and the story barely even acknowledges it. Deku and Shigaraki were the only people who had learned the truth and neither talks about it or is allowed to share this with the world. Shigaraki died an unwilling martyr, and is remembered as a monster no better than AFO. The public draws no line between the abuser and his victim. Izuku or Allmight don't exhibit any intention to reveal the truth, and we already have Dabi's example on how this turns out.

What is the point of this character ending? Life is unfair and everything is horrible? Just deal with your trauma without causing problems for others, or you will be punished? Always abandon your ideals and your friends if a cop tells you to, or you will be murdered?

[thelittlegirlinwonderland]

What I'd Change about MHA

firstly, i'd put monoma in 1-a. i'd replace sato b/c i hate his character design and does he even do anything?

i'd make aizawa more of a stoic, scary looking guy but he just wants what's best for these kids. he doesn't lie to them or use ruses but he tends to push more and seems like a hardass to prepare them for the cutthroat life of heroics

i'd flesh out the characters more, their backstories, why they want to be heroes. i'd also build their relationships more. give them time to bond, spend time together outside of school without a disaster happening. filler type stuff

i like most of the plot up until the war arc, so i'd probably keep it, changing small things like stain. i think i'd make stain a former hero, like lady nagant, who saw corruption in his field and decided to handle it in the most extreme way. i would either get rid of stain attacking tensei or have it be a 'wrong place, wrong time' scenario where tensei found stain attempting to kill a different hero and wouldn't leave(similar to midoriya running in to save tenya)

ofa is one of the things about the og that annoys me. firstly, more than 9 users. probably 11-13. if it's supposed to be 2-3 hundred years since quirks, 9 doesn't make sense. especially since the first 3 were all around the same age and most of them died young. i'd also have more diverse users and quirks. i hate fa jin and gearshift, and danger sense and smokescreen don't make sense. blackwhip and float are great quirks. expand on the users' pasts as well. why were they chosen? what did they do with the quirk when they had it? also more izuku/vestige scenes. no random bakugou look alike user

i'd change a lot of the villain's stories. i'd change toga to actually be a victim of the system instead of just a blood-crazed lunatic. she was starved and didn't understand her cravings until she snapped and accidentally killed a classmate. from there, she's treated like a monster and pushed into the league who help her get the blood she needs which calms her down significantly. no wanting to become the people she loves and creepy harrasment of izuku and ochaco. just make her a scared teenage girl with no one else to go

as for shigaraki, when afo gets arrested show a slow change in his thought process, behavior, and lifestyle as he adjusts to life without the man who had been grooming and abusing him his entire life. make him realize afo isn't a helpful sensei but rather manipulating him. have him grow and reject afo and his ideas. have him start forming his own ideas of how he wants to change society

dabi is a tough one. i think i'd make him ostracized from his entire family. he had the quirk but not the body or mind for heroics. enji rejects him, rei can't stand his ambition, natsuo and fuyumi don't have anything in common and so he pushes them away, shoto is the masterpiece. this makes him more sullen and closed off. i'd have him run away instead of nearly dying and being save by afo. when he finds the league, he starts to open up more and develops more of a personality in this new family.

i wouldn't make kurogiri oboro. i think i'd scrap oboro as a whole. kurogiri is still a nomu but he has no ties to any heroes.

i'd have more people die in the war. more important heroes like all might, miruko, edgeshot, jeanist etc. bakugo stays dead, it's a tragedy that even someone as strong as him can't always win. maybe parents, friends, past classmates of the students because this is a war, collateral is going to happen. gran torino also should've died.

izuku: -make izuku's hair slowly turn white after he gets ofa so by the end it is completely white. this can be due to stress, having multiple quirks, getting a quirk when he didn't have one, etc. -all for one is his dad. this can explain why izuku can wield all of the past users' quirks, he's built to have multiple. now, this doesn't make afo a good person suddenly. he's still the man who groomed tenko and killed countless. maybe he just makes kids every now and then to get/make new quirks. it's just a game to him, he doesn't care about izuku or inko but it give izuku more personal stakes. -lean into izuku's analysis and intelligence more. -make monoma part of his friend group and have them bond over quirk analysis. -i think i'd make Mic his tutor. like how aizawa saw shinsou and decided to train him, mic sees izuku and his destructive quirk and decides to do something about it.