#shigaraki tomura - criticism

[embers-of-the-league]

Okay, so here's where we're at apparently

Tomura is dead

Toga is dead (or, let's just call it as it is, she committed suicide) - this is despite the fact that if she died other characters (read: heroes) should have died as well, but didn't (Bakugo and Edgeshot for example)

Dabi is presumably still in the hospital (since we didn't see a funeral), unable to move or do anything on his own

Spinner wrote his book, but where he is and how he's actually doing is unknown - presumably he still has to deal with multiple quirks that aren't his own and are tearing at his body

Compress is alive but where he currently is is unknown - he read Spinner's book (and that's it)

Kurogiri exploded?? And nobody has bothered to mention anything about him since

Twice has been dead for a while, but his murderer is not only free of charge but also the head of the HPSC (which still exists btw)

Other things:

The hero ranking system still exists

Seemingly no real changes have been made which would help victims like the LOV before they felt like they had to turn to villainy to be heard/seen/understood

Deku gets to be a hero again by the power of ~technology~ - kinda making the whole deal about him losing his quirk feel pointless

Not from this chapter, but I still feel like it's very important to point out that it's heavily implied that Rei is just gonna take care of Enji (her abuser) now and probably for the rest of time

The few good things:

Ochako bringing more focus on mental health

That was it, I have nothing else

[nagitosstolenhand]

i don't like the growing opinion that people are being 'too hard' on deku for his failing to save shigaraki.

i've seen quite a few people complaining that a lot of the bnha-critical crowd are being too mean to deku for getting tomura killed, arguing that it isn't really his fault, and that hes a 16 year old child soldier who's been failed by almost every adult in his life, why should we be putting all of this on his shoulders? hes just a kid after all?

and the truth is, they're right. deku IS a 16 year old boy whos had the fate of the world thrust on his shoulders. but the story itself just plainly refuses to acknowledge this.

the narrative doesn't acknowledge how fucked up having a school that trains literal children how to be combo cop-celebrities is. it only tentatively acknowledges the fact that a universe having combo cop-celebrities is fucked up, and even then the only people who ever point this out are antagonists, who are portrayed and treated in-universe as untrustworthy. the narrative doesn't care how fucked up dekus circumstances are. the narrative treats deku like hes a fucking messiah here to touch the hearts of the evil depressed villains with his magical empathetic heart of gold before they get blown up or just sent to fucking superhell for daring to challenge the status quote.

deku isn't a person. he's barely even a fucking character at this point. he's a plot device, and a mouth piece for the objectively shitty themes bnha is trying to spout. the themes that tell you that if you're mistreated by society and want to do something about it, you're a villain. that disrupting the status quote and refusing to repent to some random teenage boy spouting empty platitudes at you means you deserve to get sent to fucking superhell. the themes that portray people fighting for civil change as mass murdering supervillains. the themes that look the audience dead in the eye and can call deku the greatest hero to ever live.

deku, who barely spared a second thought to lady nagant telling him the truth about the hero commission. who spouts meaningless platitudes about heroism and morality at nagant, and aoyama, and toga and shigaraki, when even the thought that he should question the world around him comes up. who's constantly talked about as this truly kind, empathetic person, but hasn't spared an empathetic thought to literally anyone who is classified as a villain. who listened to every authority figure around him except the ones who asked him to question his worldview. who saw la bravas tears, shigarakis various breakdowns, himikos plead for understanding, chisakis catatonic state, lady nagants truth, and barley batted a fucking eye. deku, who killed tomura shigaraki.

people don't criticize deku for failing shigaraki because they just hate deku. people criticize deku because of what he represents. because hes a mouthpiece for the atrocious morals and themes of this ideologically rotten manga. because any character he had was chopped up to bits in favor of the incomplete husk we have now. people criticize deku because hes the main character of my hero academia. theres nothing more damning then that.

[denkisauce]

my growing collection from redacted dot com 🥲

[newtscamandersbf]

saw this ss on twt and im sorry but im starting to think some of yall actually like when characters are predators cause first it was accusing afo of p3dophilia / sa (despite the fact grooming can be non-sexual) and now its this shit 😭😭

like this is actually crazy yall we are told MULTIPLE times that toga feels safe with the league because they are the only ones who accepted her for who she was 😭😭 its not like she was the only woman or kid in the league either like at some point there were magne and mustard. the league lets anyone in regardless of background this is soo ..

[atlasofoverthinking]

The Problem with the League of Villains

this is just me ranting after reading many people say that the lov deserved a better ending (i agree with them don't worry). most of that stuff has already been said but i'm bored and need something to write

so why is everyone disappointed?

by definition, an antagonist is someone that goes against the main character(s) and a villain is someone who does immoral and/or illegal things (wow, shocking)

so by definition, the league of villains is aptly named. shigaraki and dabi are mass murderers, toga is a killer too, and even if the others are 'less dangerous' they're all guilty of terorism and kidnapping a teenager.

not nice, right? then why would anyone would want them to have a good ending?

long story short: horikoshi made the league too sympathetic and relatable

when horikoshi has decided to make them funny, he's decided to make them likeable. that's not enough though. you can find a fictional villain funny and not root for them (for some reason the examples that comes to my mind are the disney villains. captain hook is hilarious but no one wants him to win)

the cause of everyone's disappointment is the relatable part. everyone in the league has gone through stuff viewers can relate. touya, shigaraki and toga have been abused; twice has mental health issues (and stuggling to get a job is relatable too lmao); spinner has been discriminated against... you get the idea

and even without knowing their backstory, most of the league's fights can be considered noble: they want to change society and make the world a better place. to take a more precise example, the league kidnapped bakugou because they thought he had gone through similar struggle as them

(this is mr compress talking in chapter 85) as far as i've seen, most of the fandom either think bakugou being chained and muzzled at the end of the sport festival was just comic relief or agree that it was fucked up

so yeah, you can't put a group of people rejected by society, who just want a better world and expect people to not like them

and that's why their ending is disappointing (the rest contains heavy spoilers of the last few chapters of mha)

they're all either in jail or six feet underground. we rationally could understand it, they're all criminals/villains so of course they wouldn't get a happy ending and face consequences for their actions. the only one who could have gotten away with it is shigaraki because of all the grooming/brainwashing he's gone through and maybe toga because she's a child

but if you relate to a character, you want them to get a happy ending. of course fans would want dabi to be at peace, but instead he's forced to spend his last moments being stared at by his abuser). of course fans would want shigaraki to be free from afo (but instead his only freedom was death). of course fans would want toga to be understood and cared for (but she never had that opportunity)

that's not very 'save to win' out of you horikoshi

maybe it's just a shortcut made by the fandom, but the league are seen more as victims of abuse than actual criminals. i mean, what's more important in dabi's story? the fact that he burned himself alive after overworking himself to get his abusive father's attention, or the fact that he's burned people alive? probably both, but there's more focus on the first element.

and obviously we would want abuse victims to get a happy ending

basically, their ending isn't coherent with what we've seen of them, and that's why people are disappointed

btw, the same logic applies to stain. some fans agree with stain's reasoning bc he's fighting against corruption. of course, his logic is stupid and he's delusional but he's introduced not long after we've discovered shouto's past. you can't say "one of the most popular heroes is abusing + all he wants is to get n°1 to satisfy his own ego" and then follow with "see that guy fighting against corruption? he's bad, don't do that"

the clever way to make sure no one would agree with stain would have been to make the heroes fight against injustice with good methods. i live for the fanfics in which izuku takes down the hpsc

okay i'm done ranting thanks for reading

[haine-kleine]

The entire manga ending is a burning trash fire that falls on its head in all of the established thematic purposes, but what was done with Shigaraki's character might be one of the stupidest and plain evil writing decisions.

Shigaraki was established as an immature and arrogant AFO's heir and since they were separated after Kamino, his journey was all about learning to stand on his own, developing his own agenda, establishing and chasing the goals he set out for himself. In other words, since AFO's imprisonment, Shigaraki was gradually healing from years of grooming, brainwashing and social isolation.

His backstory revealed in the My Villain Academy arc had challenged the readers and their views of this character, showing his extreme trauma, his guilt as a 5 years old boy who had killed his entire family in a quirk accident. It also finally explained Shigaraki's fervent devotion to AFO, the only one who had reached out, who wanted to help, who cared.

Of course we were aware AFO's motives can't be pure. He was preparing Shigaraki as a future vessel for himself, a means to achieve his dream of living forever.

Then, by the last war arc, Shigaraki has all the agency, individuality, autonomy ripped away by AFO stealing his body. He spends the entire second war fighting for control, silenced by AFO and the narrative barely giving him any chance to talk. One of his main goals was protecting his comrades and their dreams - this is taken from him as well, the League spent the entire second war separated, not even getting one final chance to see each other. Shigaraki dies while thinking of his friends, of his goal to save them, which he will never be able to achieve. While Izuku was at least given a chance to directly confront Shigaraki on his final quest of trying to save him, Shigaraki spent the entire time even before the second war delirious, and until his death, he had never even learned what happened to his friends, the people who chose to follow him, trusted him and supported him.

The very last thing that happens to Shigaraki before his death, is learning that his entire life, everything that had happened to him, was caused by AFO and his schemes. This strips Shigaraki of the last of his agency, turning him into a martyr. His story is no longer one about the unfairness of the heroes-adoring society and hypocrisy, good VS bad victim, trauma and coping with it. His story is about becoming a victim of a creep who had been grooming him since he was 5. One who had tried his best to make a life for himself outside of his abuser, and then had this life cruelly taken from him. Shigaraki doesn't even get to talk or react to the fact he has to sacrifice himself for AFO to die. Izuku doesn't ask him, doesn't apologize to him, he just presents the fact plainly. Shigaraki just has to deal with it.

He went from a victim to a martyr and the story barely even acknowledges it. Deku and Shigaraki were the only people who had learned the truth and neither talks about it or is allowed to share this with the world. Shigaraki died an unwilling martyr, and is remembered as a monster no better than AFO. The public draws no line between the abuser and his victim. Izuku or Allmight don't exhibit any intention to reveal the truth, and we already have Dabi's example on how this turns out.

What is the point of this character ending? Life is unfair and everything is horrible? Just deal with your trauma without causing problems for others, or you will be punished? Always abandon your ideals and your friends if a cop tells you to, or you will be murdered?

[gece-misin-nesin]

The fact that Horikoshi had ALL the opportunity to have a "power of friendship" moment with the League coming together and breaking Tomura out of the possession/mind control and going on to band together against AFO but instead chose to kill them off or imprison them without any closure is my villain origin story

[bibibbon]

MHA and the bystander effect (long post)

MHA's society suffers heavily from the bystander effect.

I wish that this plot point was further explored and this could of been where we actually take all mights character somewhere and not waste him on the whole iron might bs.

It can be argued that we first see this as early as the first chapter where we have people simply standing there watching a hero take down a villain. In all retrospect when I see this I genuinely think of some kind of performance, the hero is a glorified soldier that has to elegantly perform their duty while ensuring the safety of lives and entertaining them.

We then have the attack with bakugo and the sludge villain. People again are standing there watching another performance go down except here the heroes don't know what to do and it can be argued that they aren't trying hard enough at all. The heroes look at the situation, say they don't have any compatible quirk that helps the situation and simply stand in the sidelines waiting for someone to come and help that's after the manh failed attempts. Now this absolutely wouldn't work considering the victim in this circumstance was getting choked to death and him struggling even more literally caused a fire and property damage. I think it's interesting how no one thought of simply aiming at the sludge villains eyes (his obvious weak spot) and it was izuku in his panic that actually helped save Katsuki and gave all might the strength and confidence to step up and do something. What's even more interesting is that at that moment all might like the other bystanders was also contributing to the bystander effect simply standing there distanced from the fight and involved in it at the same time.

The third time we see this is during the UA entrance exams. Everyone is focused on getting points and destroying robots not really paying attention to their surroundings. After releasing the zero pointer everyone priorities themselves and starts to run with no one sparing ochako (who is injured) an eye and offering to help her. Rather the unconscious thoughts are that someone else will help her and it's full of people trying to prioritise themselves as this is also an exam. Izuku also priorities himself and tries to get away until he sees ochako and this is the second time where he recklessly runs into danger.

I think what's really interesting is that nedzu made this the point of the test which is something that iida says to izuku when they meet again. Iida points out that saving peoples lives and helping them is indeed the point of the test and heroism yet the test is very much structured in a way where you need to destroy to save and you need to prioritise yourself which can be the test just being a microcosm for the real hero society.

We mainly and clearly see the bystander effect in action when it comes to shigaraki tomuras backstory. It can be argued that this is one of the major reasons what drives shigaraki to villainy. Throughout tenko's backstory people see him suffer yet they don't help him physically at all or are quite late to do so. This starts from his father's punishments to him aimlessly roaming the streets scared and alone just for all for one to come along and offer a hand to him. A villain ends up helping a child instead of the people who are supposed to do so (Iam ignoring the contents of chapter 420 that revealed that AFO was behind this all along)

Tenko's backstory also emphasises just how much society is dependent on heroes that they think they aren't responsible for anything and any remains of social responsibility are rather diminished as people are busy and turn a blind eye to an obviously scared kid who is suffering.

Heck we even have momo a class 1A member acknowledge that the bystander effect is a very big thing within hero society yet no one does much to reduce this. It seems that hero society actually makes it somewhat of a taboo to even intervene in situations and help people when you aren't a hero which is why labels such as vigilantes exists. This could be linked to what we find out what happens to lady nagant and how she was in charge of killing vigilantes or anyone who opposed the government.

You can say that the government uses heroes (like hawks and lady nagant) as a way to control citizens but this turns out to be a double edged sword for them as time goes on and all mights notorious reign of 'peace' falls the people start to wake up you can say.

Hero society especially with the rise of all might and the all might era has created a society that is rampant in the bystander effect and a society that relies, worships and glorifies heroes to a toxic extreme. Obviously this has negatively effected everyone in different ways. It's not only civilians that suffer but also the heroes who are put into extreme situations and have to live up to incredibly toxic and high standards while also appealing to the public. I think a great example of this is all might who is a character who suffered from the system yet upheld and was somewhat responsible for creating it.

After the war arc we see the hero society system crumble away and we see the complacent bystander effect fade away and get people become distrustful or heroes and anyone around them. During this arc we also see the once glorified and worshipped all might statue become vandalised and people abandoning any hope of the hero system or hero society in general. Chaos and panic are rampant and people have lost hope as the system dissolves.

In conclusion, if horikoshi actually handled this theme of bystander effect in hero society properly then we could of gotten a compelling story where villains or victims that suffer from it are saved. Hori could of also used this to show how flawed hero society is and how corrupt the hero public safety commission is as well.

Add on

Horikoshi during the vigilante arc also has civilians realise their compliance in all of this and how the hero system set them up in a way which they can relax and watch without having to do anything as society crumbles. It's such a shame that horikoshi takes this and basically diminishes any proper hope by making the ending of the second war arc a disaster.

[tmufruitss]

⚠️ spoilers for mha chapter 429

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tw: suicide mention

Never in my life would i have thought in 2018 that the series that focuses on proving hero's can be bad people and villains are made would spit on it's own leagacy like this.

When i first watched mha in 2018 i genuinely hoped for the villains to die because back then i couldn't fathom that they were survivors of their own abuse, fighting to dismantle that very system that allowed to abuse to happen in the first place.

But now it's just so ??? What are we doing here?

Revealing afo has been controlling tenko's life before he was even born, served no point whatsoever, i think it made everything 10 times worse from a story telling perspective. The whole point used to be how anyone could turn out like Tenko, groomed and abused. That's not the case anymore though, we saw how Tenko was doomed before he was even born.

And don't get me started on the new character being set up to be Tenko 2.0 which is the most stupid shit i've ever seen. Oh wow great last time we couldn't save the abuse victims but maybe this time? Or idk maybe next generation, third times the charm. /s

The hero ranking system still exists for some reason, quirk counseling doesn't work? UA gets to continue training child soldiers like before, there are no recordings of the war and it will not be mentioned anywhere except for Spinner's comic which nobody is gonna read😭

And I would have gotten over Tenko dying at one point right but the Himiko reveal today was really the final nail in the coffin.

Killing a 17 year old child, no letting her kill herself, to save another dying child? Yes suicide is so very heroic /s (and not even giving Ochako a proper conclusion?)

"Only people that want to be saved deserve to be saved, but also not really" is basically the moral of the story here which is such an insane thing to potray in a story in 2024.

Like Nagant explodes gets to live, Bakugos heart explodes and he lives because of Edgeshot who somehow lives as well? Himiko does a blood transfusion and dies 😭

It doesn't sit right with me at all that the abused characters got killed of/ in a facility left to die.

[sapphic-agent]

Me when I'm in a getting screwed over by Horikoshi contest and my opponent is any of these characters:

Or, you know, anyone else who isn't Bakugou

[embers-of-the-league]

Every day I wake up and cry about how much we were robbed with the anime adaptation of the MVA arc

[gayfortheplot]

Okay, I know I'm super late to this, I originally wasn't going to say anything, but I can't stew in my anger any longer.

"Keep that grief and misery from spreading any further"??? Really, Midoriya? Really?

Did you really keep the grief and misery from spreading? Will the League just not care that you killed their leader??? The guy they lived with, fought with, and loved for so long? Oh, well, I guess if they're sad about it, you should just kill them too, right? Spinner should die because he was sad you killed the guy he loved so, so much. The guy he dedicated his life to protecting. Dabi should die because you killed the only guy he would take orders from, one of the only people he respected and wanted to help, and the only person who gave him unconditional support. Toga should die because you killed the one guy who acknowledged her needs and wanted her to be happy. The one man who wanted to destroy the world, everything, but was willing to spare the things she loved. Compress should die because you killed the guy he entrusted his and his entire bloodline's goals to, who remembered an offhand comment he made months ago about wanting sushi and made sure he got some. Kurogiri (well, you probably already killed him, but regardless) should die because you killed his son, the boy he'd been raising for the past 15 years.

Never mind the fact that killing Spinner would probably upset a lot of the heteromorphs who saw Spinner as a symbol of their freedom from oppression. They all rioted and fought against heroes, so they're basically villains, right? Just kill them.

Never mind that killing Toga would upset Uraraka, who did so much and put her life on the line to save her. Uraraka has to die too, because she was sad about a villain.

Never mind the Todoroki family, who would be crushed if Dabi died after everything they did to bring their family back together. I guess all of them have to die, too.

And everyone else that might be saddened by their deaths? People that knew the League before, Aizawa, Present Mic, people that related to them and their suffering, people that wanted the better world the League promised? Kill all of them, too.

Wow, Midoriya! Look at all this sadness you've prevented! You really are the greatest hero! Oh, wait, you're sad because you murdered your friends because they were sad? I guess you gotta die, too. Can't have that grief and misery spreading any further! Roll credits!

[denkisauce]

(bnha manga ending spoilers)

what was the point

what was the point

what was the point

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT 😭😭

what was the pointtttt

[thelittlegirlinwonderland]

What I'd Change about MHA

firstly, i'd put monoma in 1-a. i'd replace sato b/c i hate his character design and does he even do anything?

i'd make aizawa more of a stoic, scary looking guy but he just wants what's best for these kids. he doesn't lie to them or use ruses but he tends to push more and seems like a hardass to prepare them for the cutthroat life of heroics

i'd flesh out the characters more, their backstories, why they want to be heroes. i'd also build their relationships more. give them time to bond, spend time together outside of school without a disaster happening. filler type stuff

i like most of the plot up until the war arc, so i'd probably keep it, changing small things like stain. i think i'd make stain a former hero, like lady nagant, who saw corruption in his field and decided to handle it in the most extreme way. i would either get rid of stain attacking tensei or have it be a 'wrong place, wrong time' scenario where tensei found stain attempting to kill a different hero and wouldn't leave(similar to midoriya running in to save tenya)

ofa is one of the things about the og that annoys me. firstly, more than 9 users. probably 11-13. if it's supposed to be 2-3 hundred years since quirks, 9 doesn't make sense. especially since the first 3 were all around the same age and most of them died young. i'd also have more diverse users and quirks. i hate fa jin and gearshift, and danger sense and smokescreen don't make sense. blackwhip and float are great quirks. expand on the users' pasts as well. why were they chosen? what did they do with the quirk when they had it? also more izuku/vestige scenes. no random bakugou look alike user

i'd change a lot of the villain's stories. i'd change toga to actually be a victim of the system instead of just a blood-crazed lunatic. she was starved and didn't understand her cravings until she snapped and accidentally killed a classmate. from there, she's treated like a monster and pushed into the league who help her get the blood she needs which calms her down significantly. no wanting to become the people she loves and creepy harrasment of izuku and ochaco. just make her a scared teenage girl with no one else to go

as for shigaraki, when afo gets arrested show a slow change in his thought process, behavior, and lifestyle as he adjusts to life without the man who had been grooming and abusing him his entire life. make him realize afo isn't a helpful sensei but rather manipulating him. have him grow and reject afo and his ideas. have him start forming his own ideas of how he wants to change society

dabi is a tough one. i think i'd make him ostracized from his entire family. he had the quirk but not the body or mind for heroics. enji rejects him, rei can't stand his ambition, natsuo and fuyumi don't have anything in common and so he pushes them away, shoto is the masterpiece. this makes him more sullen and closed off. i'd have him run away instead of nearly dying and being save by afo. when he finds the league, he starts to open up more and develops more of a personality in this new family.

i wouldn't make kurogiri oboro. i think i'd scrap oboro as a whole. kurogiri is still a nomu but he has no ties to any heroes.

i'd have more people die in the war. more important heroes like all might, miruko, edgeshot, jeanist etc. bakugo stays dead, it's a tragedy that even someone as strong as him can't always win. maybe parents, friends, past classmates of the students because this is a war, collateral is going to happen. gran torino also should've died.

izuku: -make izuku's hair slowly turn white after he gets ofa so by the end it is completely white. this can be due to stress, having multiple quirks, getting a quirk when he didn't have one, etc. -all for one is his dad. this can explain why izuku can wield all of the past users' quirks, he's built to have multiple. now, this doesn't make afo a good person suddenly. he's still the man who groomed tenko and killed countless. maybe he just makes kids every now and then to get/make new quirks. it's just a game to him, he doesn't care about izuku or inko but it give izuku more personal stakes. -lean into izuku's analysis and intelligence more. -make monoma part of his friend group and have them bond over quirk analysis. -i think i'd make Mic his tutor. like how aizawa saw shinsou and decided to train him, mic sees izuku and his destructive quirk and decides to do something about it.

[dirt-apple-productions]

I think the worst part about the MHA conclusion has to be the confusion. Like were we gaslit by the story or did we just get our hopes up too much…?

[haine-kleine]

whatever. you know who really deserved to get a glimpse of baby Tenko's life at his home and at his father's abuse via magic memories voodoo bullshit?

this guy.

can't believe Horikoshi Mr Parallels Kohei missed this opportunity.

Dabi would have snatched Tenko out of there and burned that house down so fast. and when Tenko would start crying and questioning why was he so broken that he never deserved to be saved, he would say what Tenko actually didn't deserve was to be treated this way by his family, didn't deserve to be abandoned.

and even if it's late, even if the memories are not real, Touya would have saved Tenko's heart by seeing the unfair hurt inflicted on him and reaching out to save him.