#she really doesn't understand Daenerys

[hylialeia]

you don't get it. she loved him once. she didn't have a maester, she had a brother. he sold their mother's crown to keep them fed. he said Dany, please. she loved him, once.

[phantomqa]

Hot take:

Okay so, I don't really understand the Sansa slander, especially in the first few seasons. Beauces my girl is a child, can you blame a child for being scared of the queen and the king. Can you blame a child for having a crush and wanting said crush to like them back? I don't think so. The whole Arya is better,oh Sansa is so bad thing ,I don't understand. Both of these characters are great in my opinion and you can't really compare them.

Arya just likes swords and stuff like that, and Sansa likes embroidery and stuff. And I think they have a relatively normal sibling dynamic, cause I remember I was like that with my older sister.

Since it was five years ago for me when I watched the show and I now finished the first book, I can't really understand the dislike for Sansa.

Like she went through shit , in the show. Like watching her father die, getting humiliated as a child, getting married as a humiliation, getting married to a psycho and abused from him.

And one thing I once read in a comment section was "well we don't like her because she didn't trust Daenerys." Well why should she trust someone she doesn't know from the beginning.

I get people disliking characters, but Sansa is just a character I don't really understand why.

Can someone explain to me, because every explanation has been I've seen especially on tiktok, kinda sexist and biased, no offense.

[sad-drake-lyrics]

what my 65yo father has to say about antis:

let me preface this by saying, i literally wish i had what just happened on video to go viral on TikTok. i was shook by this conversation down to my bones; and if you could see my father - a loud old Italian man with dramatic hand gestures - say what he had to say, i think this shit would blow up. but as i was obviously not filming him while we were eating, i will have to relay to you the story with my words.

so i'm sitting eating dinner at the coffee table with my father while watching TV, as Americans often do instead of eating at the dinner table, and since the news was on he started telling me this story that had been recently mentioned on TV once again from maybe ten years ago (it was in 2014, you can read about it here) where these two 12-year-old girls killed one of their friends as a sacrifice to the Slender Man. yeah, real thing. fucked up.

and so my father told me about how they interviewed one of the killer's mothers, and when questioned about where her daughter's motive could've come from, she said something along the lines of: you know, when i was a kid, i was into Stephen King and horror - and so when my kid was into that kind of stuff, i didn’t think it was a big deal.

so, of course, my response was "yeah, being into that stuff isn’t a big deal at all - it's normal - but being a sociopath and murdering someone is not normal; it's fucked up. but there's nothing wrong with being into horror stories - they're just stories meant to entertain - it doesn't make you a murderer to enjoy Halloween - but it would if you put on a Michael Myers mask and went out and stabbed people." and, of course, like any sane person, my father agreed with me.

then, continuing this line of conversation, i started talking about the concept of how "fiction isn’t reality," and how a frightening amount of people don't understand that; and i literally started telling him about antis - people on the internet who attack and harass others over "problematic" or "inappropriate" fictional interests.

i used well-known pop culture examples like: if you're into Game of Thrones and like Jaime and Cersei together or wanted Jon and Daenerys to end up together (i didn't think he would process the term "shipping," but clearly by the end of this conversation i think i was wrong), that people (antis) will say things like "you should die," and that you "support inc*st in real life," and that "you're disgusting."

i also used the examples of "toxic relationships" in pop culture, like the Joker and Harley Quinn, or Kylo Ren and Rey, and how if you’re into those kinds of fictional relationships that people (antis) will say that you "support toxic relationships," and that you are "glorifying abuse," and that it all "must be what you really want and believe is right or good."

and my fucking 65-year-old father literally goes: "I don’t understand. It’s a TV show. Don't they know it’s fake?"

queue my jaw dropping to the fucking ground because i'm like. YES. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PRO-SHIPPERS ARE TRYING TO SAY AND THESE PEOPLE DON'T GET IT.

he was flabbergasted, my pals. the shock in his eyes was incredible to behold.

and, oh boy, that isn't even the best part, guys.

my father then says, "Don’t tell me it’s like that with anime too?"

and i said, "it's worse with anime."

and i fucking swear to you - no joke, on my life and baby Jesus' cradle - again my 65-year-old father looks at me and says, “It’s a fucken cartoon."

... ... ...

... i can't ...

i can't end this post better than that.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Anyone who thinks that Rhaenyra calling Helaena "my sweet sister" means anything positive about their relationship or about Rhaenyra's feelings for Heleana needs to go back and re-read the main series (or read it period, because trust me you will understand F&B a lot better with ASOIAF as context).

In ASOIAF "sweet sister" is that phrase is used disparagingly the vast majority of the time. A quick search reveals it is used 82 times, and the character who uses this phrase by far the most is Tyrion when speaking about Cersei (an example from ASOS Tyrion I):

There are also multiple examples of Jaime using it about Cersei too, especially when he's unhappy with her (a random example from AFFC Jaime V):

Other people also use it referring to Cersei, again sarcastically. "Your sweet sister did X." Which makes sense! Cersei is pretty notorious and people gripe about her to her brothers pretty often.

Beyond various people talking about Cersei, the top offender is Viserys, who uses it quite a bit when addressing Dany, usually with a bite of malice (AGOT Daenerys I):

Interestingly, Viserys later calls out to his "sweet sister" when he is begging for his life. I can't imagine that reminding her of all the times he threatened her with those same words helped his case very much.

There's one instance of Arya using it about Sansa when she is giving an insincere apology (AGOT Sansa III):

Here is Theon using it about Asha (ACOK Theon V):

Lysa also uses it about Cat, and her feelings about her "sweet sister" at this point are pretty negative (ASOS Sansa VII):

You get the picture. At the very best, it's used with a fond sort of sarcasm, at worst it's actively spiteful. You can count on one hand the number of times it is used sincerely in the whole entire series, and really there's only one instance, from Edmure to Cat, that I would read as 100% sincere without even a tiny hint of sarcasm. F&B doesn't have anyone's POV to indicate the tone with which Rhaenyra said those words, and although it's possible this might have been the second time in the whole of ASOIAF that we were meant to treat those words as unquestioningly sincere and loving, I think this is a bit like the discourse around "sharply questioned." Those words, in-world, tend to carry a connotation beyond their surface meaning. It would not be something reassuring to hear terms for surrender given using the phrase "sweet sister," and in fact, given that we have no other indication that Rhaenyra has any sort of relationship with her siblings whatsoever, Helaena would be entirely justified in interpreting her words as spiteful or sarcastic. After all, if you're using a quote from the book to speak to Rhaenyra's intentions, the character you're referring to is book!Rhaenyra, who is not shown to be an overly nice person. Even by the most charitable reading, we can safely assume that those words were included by Gyldayn in his history knowing that in-world readers would read them as insincere. They are not intended to portray Rhaenyra and Helaena's relationship in a positive light.

[syndrossi]

Something I would love for Reversal!AU is a) Daemon going EVEN MORE SPARE when he hears the 'pillow princesses' song in this timeline, and also B) freaking out more about what might have befallen his two daughters while they were alone with a grown male kidnapper. Honestly, he's probably relieved they aren't flowered yet, because that makes it less likely that they would be raped by Crayne - and when he hears that Crayne kept Rhaella close the fear would be even worse.

Also, in regards to Jon's name in reversal!AU - while Daeron and Aemon/D are already taken, that doesn't actually stop Jeyne from choosing a female version of one of those names...and if she does... The female version of Aemon is...Aemma. Also, if she does pick Visenya, Viserys is going to remember how Rhaenyra was determined to have a sister/daughter and name her Visenya, and honestly so is Rhaenyra, and they are both going to look at Daemon as the one who named his daughters - honestly, everyone who knows about Rhaenyra and the name Visenya are going to be looking at Daemon's daughters named Visenya and Rhaella and be all 'wow, he really loves Rhaenyra.'

I'm pretty sure Daemon just kills that singer in Reversal AU. In Resonant, he knows (he hopes?) that they were not harmed by Crayne in that manner, and he also understands that it would be both wasteful and suicidal for the Triarchy to have ambitions of that kind with his sons. But with daughters? It probably speaks to his deeper fears about Volantis's intentions for his twins.

And as gross as it is, the girls' maidenheads are important commodities in this culture, so I'm guessing that the Grand Maester, uh, has them examined to ensure that they're intact after their captivity, to both the twins' and Daemon's own horror. (He does get some small relief at the confirmation that they were not defiled by Crayne.)

Aww, Aemma is actually a rather sweet dark horse contender for a name for Jon. (Honestly, there are some great female Targaryen names, including many of Daemon's aunts' names! Viserra and Daella. Heh, they could be Rhaella and Daella! Alongside the more traditional names like Daenerys/Daenys, or the spurned Visenya.)

[agentrouka-blog]

I guarantee the ones who can’t understand how TB isn’t feminist are the same who can’t understand Dany was never a feminist. It’s always this one woman above all the rest, and they think this helps all women because one woman is able to change things for herself. They also think Alicent chose wrong, so she either can’t be a victim or deserves to suffer under patriarchy, and is as bad as Otto or whoever “seeks to maintain the status quo”.

They confuse power for a single character with systemic change for all characters.

This disdain for systemic issues really does tend to make them react with aggression against victims of said system who lack the means to easily rebel, imagining choice where it doesn't exist.

Rhaenyra and Daenerys are both handed immense privilege alongside their oppression, and they use it to benefit themselves and that makes for a compelling story, but it doesn't make them feminist and it doesn't make them inherently virtuous.

Pretending their rise is not related to their unique advantages is silly. Condemning characters who lack these unique advantages for not rising in the same way is ordinary victim-blaming.

Otto's as interested in the advance of women as a class as Rhaenyra is, which is zero on both sides. Same with Dany.

A properly feminist story would allow the female characters to be as flawed and selfish and charming and complex as the male characters without feeling the need to give them extra justification, as if apologizing for taking up screentime that should rightfully belong to male characters.

[lagosbratzdoll]

I get that you guys hate Daenerys. I don't understand it but I get it. What I don't get is why so many of you have these misogynistic fantasies about her death.

"She's villain-coded."

That's all well and good but there are tens of men in the books who have done worse and continue to do worse in pursuit of far less noble causes. I don't see people posting rape fantasies about them. I have never seen a single post where Gregor Clegane, Jamie Lannister, Petyr Baelish, Tywin Lannister or his odious brother Kevan are subjected to sexual violence before being murdered ignobly.

If anything people often blorbo-fy them. Jamie Lannister is apparently on a redemption arc even though there is little evidence of this in the books. Gregor Clegane has blinding headaches so we can't really judge him for how he chooses to destress. Tywin might be a monstrous person in canon but at least he loved his wife and that apparently forgives a multitude of sins. As for Petyr and Kevan, little is said of them but that's the point isn't it.

Aegon II the rapist without a single redeeming quality has fans who arduously defend him. "He's only a rapist because mummy and daddy didn't love him." "He's only a rapist because he doesn't know what rape is." It's fascinating stuff because many of those fans who arduously defend him are staunch Daenerys haters.

Funny how that works.

[juniorfor2]

I will always find it interesting that for all that people constantly complain about "likable" or "nuanced" villians, wanting "the good old days, where a villain was just a villain and there was nothing more to them," the moment that you open any Youtube video centered on a "nothing but a villain" character, it has at least a few comments making them far more likable and nuanced than they really are. Which wouldn't be of much interest, except for one fact - they all have at least 10-20 thousand likes.

People complain that Disney and other corporations are ruining movies, making characters far too palatable and relatable, but in truth, the same people who complain about such things will also end up liking and encouraging any thinking that characterizes the villains as such. Corporations mostly follow what their viewers want, even if slow or in a bad direction, not the other way around.

Tywin Lannister was an unmistakable bad guy in ASOIAF and Game of Thrones. He was horrible to Tyrion, cared nothing for his family beyond what they could offer to his legacy, and was willing to commit horrific deeds to climb to power. In fact, he demonstrated almost every reason for why "feudalism is bad!" as some people constantly write about. And yet, there are dozens of videos, comments, and social media posts about how Tywin Lannister was misunderstood the whole time and was really a good guy.

He should have been "the good old days where a villain was just a villain!" Isn't that what people wanted? He was an obvious antagonist to Tyrion, one of the main protagonists - perfect, right? Yet instead of grabbing onto this, people turned him into the very thing they claimed not to like.

They could have simply done this with the protagonist. Why not make the protagonist a bit more likable? It doesn't mean much to the story when done, even if it does miss the point occasionally.

But that's not what happens. In fact, the opposite does. The protagonist, the character that's supposed to be likable or nuanced according to them, is turned into the "nothing but a villain" character.

Daenerys Targaryen is one such character. She is very, very obviously one of the biggest protagonists. The first book ends with her, with "for first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons." She is a bridal slave turned Breaker of Chains. She makes mistakes, as every protagonist does, but still progresses forward.

What's not to like about her? While her circumstances and the hard choices she must make do take her into the shades of grey, she is still so compassionate for those suffering that she never comes anywhere close to the darkness that Jon Snow or Tyrion have demonstrated and progressed to. Making her more likable is easy. That's not what happens though.

Instead, she is villainized. She is determined by others to become the darkest character of all, with no nuance or likability whatsoever. They make her the villain in place of the one they've made palatable.

Some of this, I think, can be summed up to people being somewhat idiots and thinking that their idea of hot means good. I remember watching the first 4 seasons back with a sort-of-friend, and she had a huge crush on Charles Dance playing Tywin (she was 16 at the time and he was in his 60s - no, I didn't understand her, and yes, I took great pleasure in showing her Tywin's death). She was so convinced that he wasn't that bad, and the only reason she thought that was because she found him hot. So obviously that does take up a part of it. But it's definitely not the main reason.

The main reason, seeming fairly obvious, is because the idea that movies/shows/books have social or political ideas is no longer something they can ignore. They'll rave about wokeness, saying that it's in every movie now, and why can't we all go back to the good old days of Star Trek and Star Wars and the Lord of the Rings books that of course had absolutely no themes. Despite them having some incredibly heavy or obvious ideas, people somehow managed to ignore them. But now they can't.

Said people do not want to go back to the good old days of "nothing but a villain." They want to back to the "good old days" where they didn't have to examine why a villain was so terrible. They don't want to see themselves in the antagonist - so they make it so villain is no longer one.

In their desperation to get rid of political themes and ideas, and to cover up their own views that could make them look at themselves as the "villain" of our real life "story," they switch the antagonist and the protagonist, the villain and the hero, to make themselves the hero.

After all, why examine your own faults when you can just make them the correct, non-woke perspective?

[lemonhemlock]

Teenager daenerys sold as a child bride “owned” the slaves that her husband gave her… ok…

She made mistakes in her breaking of the slave trade, but her “profit” from the tax on those selling themselves back into slavery is not used for her own gain, so it’s not really a profit… she is not perfect

Daenerys’s hate of slavery is not just sometjing to make the audience like her, it is an intrinsic part of her storyline and the plot of asoiaf as a whole

when will dany stans acknowledge the intersection of gender, race and class, as well as the intersection of oppression? yes, daenerys was sold as a child bride. yes, daenerys owned slaves. did she have a choice in either matter? no. did she benefit nonetheless from the slaves she did not want to own? yes. is the entire blame for the system of slavery and abusive practices that upheld her khalasar to be placed on the shoulders of a 13-year-old girl? no. should she be criticised for taking power forcefully in slavers' bay and then not bothering to learn how to govern properly and ensure a peaceful transition to a slavery-free society? yes.

is this an important puzzle piece that could help us understand how daenerys will soon react to opposition in westeros, aka when the going gets tough instead of relying on negotiations & compromises & power-sharing i shall fall back on my fire-breathing monsters, squash my enemies violently and 'burn cities to the ground'? also yes.

it's like..... you're almost there.

can you for real stop for one minute and ask yourself why you are so willing to shill for someone whose solution (to the political problems she creates for herself) is violence? i don't understand this aversion to any kind of democratic element being introduced in westeros that might curtail the sovereign's power (or the power other feudal lords have over people). have you ever considered that westeros doesn't even have a parliamentary body? do you imagine daenerys will pull a john lackland when she arrives? does she really strike you as the power-sharing type?

think for a moment of the logistics of dany even getting to westeros in the first place with only two more books to go. homegirl has to sail soon for any of that to happen. there will be no time for her to grow into this wise political theorist you imagine her to be, she has to be gone NOW. which means she has or will have to have the personality of someone who doesn't REALLY care all that much about solving the political unrest she created. there will have to be a moment in the winds of winter when she goes "fuck it!" and decides to claim her "birthright".

and this is not to say that slavery never mattered to her as a concept or that she doesn't truly, deep down, think it's wrong, only that she will rationalize her selfish desires into convincing herself she has done all she can and thus wash her hands of this business. why? from a doylist perspective, because the plot requires it to happen NOW. from a watsonian perspective, because politicking is too difficult, it's too boring and she doesn't like it. "dragons plant no trees". dany is good at conquering, not at governing.

[yanderes-galore]

oooooo last time requests were open i meant to ask for Daenerys general headcanons but ended up forgotting about it, so i'd like to request them now!

Sure! I did what research I could so this is a more of a general look at behavior rather than any specific plot.

Yandere! Daenerys Targaryen Concept

Pairing: Platonic -> Romantic

Possible Trigger Warnings: Gender-Neutral Darling, Obsession, Manipulation, Violence, Slavery mention, Delusional behavior, Isolation, Oblivious yandere, Protective/Possessive behavior, Forced companionship/relationship.

Daenerys, while I have not finished GOT, would actually be an intimidating yandere without meaning it at times.

After all, she's a Targaryen who is the daughter of The Mad King.

Targaryen madness is no doubt dormant within her and may show up later in her obsession.

Not only that, but she has three dragons.

Three.

At this point, dragons were thought to have been extinct.

But here's Daenerys with not one, but three.

While she is polite and well-spoken, she knows how to use violence to get others to listen to her.

In fact it seems her only knowledge of politics happens to be rather naive.

Not everyone's going to like her, and her response to that is dragons.

Which... Isn't far off from her heritage.

It would be easy for Daenerys to keep her obsession by her side.

While Drogon is her most loyal dragon... She still has Viserion and Rhaegal.

Poor you, a person either from Essos or Westeros, has never seen a dragon.

Drogon is the dragon who seems to reflect Daenerys' feelings the most.

He's her chosen mount and is often her protector.

I imagine Daenerys met you after freeing you in Essos or even just meeting you in Westeros.

Although, the Essos scenario makes more sense as Daenerys cared deeply for slaves.

That was why her main goal was to free slaves in Essos... but since Westeros has no slaves, gaining their favor is difficult.

Daenerys could view her obsession as a friend... or maybe even a lover later.

Despite her intimidating appearance, she's oddly caring.

Her obsession may trust her somewhat... but her dragons are a glaring reminder of how much power she wields.

She's still ruthless and narrow minded.

She's naive and views things in black and white.

So while she's kind with you... You've no doubt seen what she does to those who disobey her.

Unintentionally, Daenerys would make you scared of her and only compliant since you're fearful.

Which she then takes as acceptance, since I can see her as a delusional yandere.

After all, you act so nice around her!

You seem to care for her well-being, which she isn't used to.

Daenerys has never known a true home...

But with her obsession, she feels a sense of stability.

Meanwhile you either respect her as just a leader or are scared of her.

Targaryens are infamous, after all.

Daenerys would want to keep her darling by her side all the time, often asking for advice from them.

She really wants to relate to and understand her obsession.

I can see a lot of her toxic behavior as being 'accidental'.

Like... She's oblivious to the fact that what she's doing is wrong.

She thinks she's considering your feelings, but isn't.

She really is oblivious.

She thinks you being beside her will bring you freedom.

In reality, she's just caging you and not knowing it.

She doesn't understand when she hugs you, vents to you, or even makes moves on her obsession...

That you might be fearful of her.

To her it just means you love her.

She feels you and her belong with one another, often confiding in you.

If we assume dragons reflect a Targaryen's feelings... Drogon, at the very least, may also be attached.

The black dragon often views you fondly, seeing how you're always close to Daenerys.

If Daenerys felt threatened or upset about someone around you...

There's a dragon who will be upset.

Rhaegal and Viserion may not be as attached... but will still step in if Daenerys expresses distress.

Daenerys expresses protective behavior.

In fact, she's also possessive as a Targaryen, due to their bonds with the beasts.

She may also be scared to lose you since she's used to losing people.

She's lost lovers, friends, and those she thought she could trust.

Betrayal is common in her life.

So even in her affection, be it on purpose or not, you can notice her being tense.

Like it's a subtle threat or claiming of you.

Daenerys wants loyalty and tries to strengthen your bond.

She may even insist on you calling her 'Dany'

She has you as a servant but doesn't view it as treating you less than her.

Especially when she begins to feel more fond of you, seeing you like a crush.

Daenerys would not understand if you tried to flee or distanced yourself.

She wouldn't think she's the issue.

She'd assume someone else is lying to you, trying to make you leave her.

Which she'd then promptly have them burned like they did some act of treason.

Even if said person did nothing wrong.

Daenerys seems manipulative since she's so delusional.

She only gets worse once she gets to Westeros and becomes more involved with battle.

You can imagine she would be a complete tyrant when he begins to lose dragons.

Yet the entire time, she doesn't see her actions as wrong both politically and with you.

She doesn't think she's holding you hostage.

Yet she also refuses to see you go with anyone else.

She wants you to be loyal to only her.

You can't express many concerns either, as her dragons are always nearby.

She's delusional and wouldn't understand why you want to leave her.

Would you rather be with the Lannisters? The Starks? The people who want her dead?

No, she won't let that happen.

If she deems you a traitor, I imagine she'll just lock you away.

You can have your freedom once you accept her.

She isn't going to give up on you.

You're one of her only friends, only companions...

She loves you.

If anyone tries to take you from her, she'll prevent it.

Anyone you know and love that isn't her will be burned if it means you'll stay hers.

Selfish? Yes.

Yet she promises if you stay by her, she'll give you anything, you'll be free...

But Daenerys was always a hypocrite trying to defy her true innate nature, wasn't she?

[bbygirl-aemond]

When Dragons Disobey Their Riders

Hi all! I wanted to comment on something that recurs in both Fire and Blood and A Song of Ice and Fire: Instances of dragons blatantly disobeying their riders, often even after multiple attempts by their riders to correct them. If you look at the context of the scenes where this occurs, I think it actually does a lot to show us the level of intelligence and agency that dragons have. Most importantly, in all of the scenes I'm about to discuss, the dragon is not disobeying their rider out of malevolent intent. They are actually trying to protect their rider, and think that their rider is making a request that would put them in danger.

Our first mention of this is with Alysanne Targaryen and her dragon Silverwing, in Fire and Blood. Alysanne is up North, by the Wall, and attempts three separate times to direct Silverwing north of the wall, but Silverwing refuses each time. Some people think Silverwing was wary of the cold, but I think this is unlikely since otherwise she would have refused to come that far north entirely. I think it's much more likely that Silverwing knew some freaky magic was going on beyond the Wall, and that it could be very dangerous for her rider.

Our second mention of this is with Area Targaryen and her dragon Balerion, in Fire and Blood. On her first ride with Balerion, Aerea disappeared for over a year, and both rider and dragon returned severely injured. Aerea's illness in particular was just straight up terrifying and very gorey, and she eventually died from it. Because of this, it's suspected that Balerion actually took Aerea to Old Valyria and that they encountered some freaky magic there. At this point in time, Aerea was trying to escape and go home, and there's a popular theory that Balerion, doing his best to obey her request, took her to the place he thought of as his home.

Our third mention of this is with Lucerys Velaryon and his dragon Arrax, in Season 1 Episode 10 of HotD. When dragon and rider are being pursued by a much bigger dragon, Lucerys is unable to calm Arrax down, and he attacks, which eventually leads to both of their deaths. Arrax is quite young, and he very obviously did this because he was feeling cornered and threatened, and felt like he had to defend himself and his rider.

Our fourth mention of this is with Aemond Targaryen and his dragon Vhagar, in the same episode, right after Arrax's attack. If you go back and look at GIFs of what this attack actually presented as, note the side the attack came from. Arrax flames Vhagar's entire head, and he does it from her left side-- the same side where her rider is blind, specifically because Arrax's rider blinded her rider. It's no wonder Vhagar retaliated; she felt that her rider had been attacked in a very vulnerable place by the same person who made her rider vulnerable and never demonstrated remorse for doing so.

Our fifth and final mention of this is with Daenerys Targaryen and her dragon Drogon, in the A Song of Ice and Fire series. For those of you who watched Game of Thrones, I'm talking about the scene in Mereen where Drogon rescues her from the assassination attempt in the fighting pits. Daenerys wants to remain in Mereen and continue to try to handle the conflict there, but Drogon ignores her commands and flies far off into the wilderness. As far as Drogon's concerned, Mereen isn't safe for Daenerys, so why should she want to stay there?

I think these instances all point to dragons being intelligent, but not enough to really understand politics--that, or they don't care. Vhagar doesn't understand or care that killing Arrax and Lucerys will cause a war; just as Drogon doesn't understand or care that Daenerys wants to remain in Mereen to rule. They prioritize their riders' wellbeing and demonstrate that they don't always think their riders know best. This makes a ton of sense especially for the older, more experienced dragons, who probably had to make more decisions during combat in order to keep their riders alive rather than just waiting for commands.

[helaenathequeenmaker]

House of the Dragon's treatment of Dreamfyre is making my blood boil in my veins. They started by claiming that the three eggs from which Daenerys's dragons will later be born are from Syrax; too bad that since reading F&B a rather popular theory has arisen in the fandom that those eggs are *drumroll* from Dreamfyre. It is indeed a theory, but there is a whole lot of sensible speculation behind it full of references and quotations while on Syrax there is no quotation that would lead to such a conclusion (except the words of that clown Ryan Condal LOL). As they fully demonstrated with Daemon's vision, they want at all costs to squeeze the character of Daenerys and attempt to make a retcon of the disastrous Game of Thrones finale, and they certainly have to put the dearest Rhaenyra (and of course her dragon) in the middle of it at all costs

And turning to her, I would really like to understand how she can state so obviously that “Helaena doesn't fly” and “she doesn't care”, having never spoken to Helaena half a time. In general I'm finding the whole characterisation of Helaena absolutely ridiculous, totally robbed of some interesting aspects present in F&B (such as the love for her of the smallfolk, her loving relationship with her children, her diplomatic skills and of course her dragon, Dreamfyre) that could easily have been expanded upon. All of this has been completely erased in order to provide us with a magical subplot (it's a pity that the Dance already features a character with prophetic abilities LOL) in which she is a dragon dreamer, but the only dreams she can interpret with disarming accuracy are those related to Aemond but not to the death of her son

Apparently in fact Helaena not only doesn't fly but hates it (!!!). So I wonder why she decided to bond with a dragon in the first place (her family regardless considers her weird, so LOL), and certainly not a little puppy. Dreamfyre is in fact the second oldest dragon after Vhagar, is therefore of considerable size and seems to have a rather short-tempered and fierce temper, as shown by the way she approaches Aemond in the first season. It therefore remains a mystery how the sweet little innocent Helaena (as they insist on portraying her) decided to claim Dreamfyre (but in general to own a dragon) and succeed in such a feat

In F&B Dreamfyre and Helaena share a rather strong bond, as the dragon senses the death of her rider and manages to break the chains that held her bound. Martin recently wrote that flying Dreamfyre is the greatest joy in Helaena's life (and I thank him infinitely for that); a joy that was robbed from her after B&C, a traumatic event after which Helaena was unable to take care of herself and her surviving children, to the point where she and her dragon posed no threat. In F&B it is repeatedly pointed out how Helaena's possible military involvement with Dreamfyre could have helped the Greens (especially after the Seeding and the taking of KL), but apparently here Helaena does not want to fight because she is aware of how it will all end

By now House of the Dragon has made so many changes that I wouldn't have minded seeing her go down in battle and avenge her son's death (the same for Rhaenyra of course), but apparently Helaena can't do anything meaningful outside the dreamlike sphere of her dreams. Even this supposed dissociation following Jaehaerys' death I do not find dealt with at all, as I find Helaena's behaviour exactly the same before and after this tragic bereavement. The way they characterised Helaena would feel more sorrow for the death of her insects than of her own son

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

She is a white savior that Daenerys believes to be the Mysha of the slaves, in addition to her arrogance of thinking that she is the only savior, she has that hero complex like her brother Rhaegar had that caused a war for his prophecy, I saw the publication and it makes sense Aegon according to what he dreamed of in the long night, but for me the author invented it to make it seem like the foreigners subjugated Westeros, for me it is not fair that Daenerys and her fans believe that she deserves the credit of many people who also fight against the others.

I'm sorry, have you ever read the books? Or even seen the show for that matter? Literally none of this is true in either one.

Dany didn't create the title of Mhysa, the Yunkai'i slaves she freed did. Then the name was picked up by the slaves in Meereen and others all over Essos. It's a title; it's awarded by others, that's how they work.

Dany takes this title as a responsibility. She feels a level of responsibility and care for the slaves and freedmen that no other pov ruler does. She understands the weight of ruling as no one else does; it's a ruler's responsibility to care for the people and do justice on their behalf. She is motivated by her genuine care in all the released books and in the seasons when she's in Essos.

Where are you getting that she has a hero complex? I'm assuming since you're talking about the Others, you're talking about the events of the show's ending. Well, even with how D&D royally fucked up, Dany didn't believe herself to be the only person fighting the Others, nor does she begrudge other people their credit.

She's rightfully upset when all the Northmen choose to ignore the fact that she literally saved them. Dany brought her dragons, saved Jon's life multiple times, and brought a massive army. She did literally save their fucking lives. No, she wasn't the only one to fight, nor was she the only reason they won, and she doesn't think that.

As for the slaves, she doesn't liberate them out of a hero's complex, she does it because slavery is a horrifying institution and she had power. People who have power should feel an obligation to do good with it; Dany does. She chose to put aside her conquest for the Iron Throne for the slaves.

Rhaegar didn't start the war, nor did he do it for the prophecy. Again, I don't know where you or any of Rhaegar's antis got that. Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna because of a mutual love. GRRM literally calls Rhaegar "a love struck prince"; meaning he isn't really thinking clearly.

As for the prophecy, yes, Rhaegar knew about it; but we have textual evidence that he believes Aegon is the Prnce that was Promised. He literally tells Elia when Aegon is born that, "His will be the Song of Ice and Fire." Yeah, he said there needed to be a third child, but why logically wouldn't he choose to have a third child with Elia? Well because he's not thinking logically, he's "lovestruck", and because he didn't run away with Lyanna for a child.

No, GRRM didn't make the Targaryen conquest to reflect foreign invasion or colonization. They're literally a Westerosi house, they came to Westeros centuries before the conquest happened. It's literally a different concept all together, why is that so hard to understand?

Literally none of Dany's fans believe that she "deserves all the credit" for fighting the Others. We just want her to get the credit she deserves, which is that she saved the Northmen's lives and without her they would have failed. These are all just facts in the show. As for the books, we know she'll play a large role in fighting the Others because GRRM makes it pretty fucking clear.

[jaimexbrienne-fic-finder]

Wedding

May is Wedding month, so here are stories about weddings! Some are only about a wedding, some just have a bigger part about a wedding. There are lots more I can't remember right now, if I think of many more there will be a part 2!

Found Wanting by dreadwulf

Brienne is still convinced that the entire affair is a joke on her. Surely there is a real bride somewhere in the castle, who will be brought out once the crowd has had a good laugh at the cow in a satin gown. When she said as much to her intended, he said it was surely a joke on them both. Let them laugh, he said. What’s funnier is that Queen Daenerys made the match in the first place – she must have thought them intolerable to one another. The Beauty and the Kingslayer. Surely Brienne could see the humor in it?

Something Drastic by bearsofair

Brienne ducks out of a wedding reception early. Her "date" comes looking for her.

the battlefield between us (isn't here tonight) by robotsdance

“I missed you, ” Brienne says like she’s admitting something else, and Jaime wants to say it back to her in exactly the same way: loaded with all of the things they’re not saying. Let that truth settle between them, unsaid but at least somewhat spoken. That could be enough. To share that quiet understanding with Brienne, here, alone together in the middle of the woods, in the middle of a war, in which one of them will be on the losing side. That could be enough. I missed you too.

Brienne would understand.

What Jaime says instead is “Marry me.”

The Lion, the Wench, and the Wardrobe Trailer by GilShalos1

Jaime Lannister’s entire acting career has been built on playing reckless cads and heartless villains – ever since a scandalous death on his first film, Kingslayer, was quickly hushed up at his father’s behest. Nearly fifteen years later, acclaimed director Olenna Tyrell has announced her retirement: after one last film, Oathkeeper, inspired by the mythic story of the Long Night. She wants Jaime to do what he does so well, play into his on-screen persona and off-screen reputation, and be a villain for the ages in her final film. But to make sure his infamous ways don’t interfere with production, she requires his personal assistant to keep him on the straight, narrow and sober. Brienne Tarth, in her first job on a film set, finds herself tasked with keeping the impossible Jaime Lannister under control …

Something Blue by Aviss

Jaime Lannister was a wedding planner, though he sometimes missed his old job where he was actually allowed to kill people. Ten minutes with his latest clients and he was already convinced they should not get married. He wasn't a marriage counsellor though, he wasn't invested in this Hunt and Tarth wedding beyond the planning of the ceremony.

Never A Bride by CourtingDisaster

(Modern AU) Wedding bells are ringing in Westeros. After an unpleasant first meeting, Brienne and Jaime find themselves being thrown together over and over as their friends and family marry off. After all, as Tyrion likes to point out, there really aren't any other groomsmen tall enough to escort everyone's favorite bridesmaid...

Over the course of several weddings and receptions, Brienne and Jaime form a sort of truce, perhaps they even become friends. But Brienne isn't going to let the atmosphere of romance carry her away, no matter how handsome Jaime is...is she?

Vows by theworldunseen

Jaime Lannister profiles the most interesting and romantic weddings in the country for his super popular blog, The only problem? His own heart has been stomped on, and it might have ruined weddings for him forever. When he finds out about a woman who’s going to be in her twenty-seventh wedding party, he thinks writing about her might be his way back to loving weddings. But Brienne Tarth isn’t anything he ever expected.

What happens in Sunspear (doesn't) stay in Sunspear Series by Luthien

Brienne wakes up the morning after a night on the town in Vegas Sunspear, with unexpected company in her bed - and that's just the first surprising discovery she makes.

My Best Friend's Wedding by wildlingoftarth

A desperate Brienne hires a “professional party date” to accompany her to Renly’s wedding on Tarth. It’s just a weekend – what could go wrong?

so keep me close. by SeeThemFlying

Brienne pines for her husband, Jaime, who she is convinced is not madly in love with her.

[tessarionbestgirl]

I have to ask did HBO learn nothing from the later seasons of the original show. Softening the main Targ because people “love” them, cutting important storylines ect queer characters cut and only really used fan service instead of the actual book canonically gays/sapphics?!? (granted it is less male gazey then the Yara bullshit which makes me want to hurl due to how bad faith it is but still) Urg hbo is practically screaming the quiet part out loud and I hate it. They are as bad as Lucasfilm and the bullshit they are pulling

HotD and Got have different problems, but, your right, they do share one in common, and that is it the show runners wanting to tell their story more than the book. That is why HBO cut out Miguel Sapochnik, but make the mistake of putting Sarah as producer. And that is why this season it feels even more Rhaenyra/Alicent relationship focused than S1 in a lot aways.

For the inside I got and I think there is interview that kind confirmed that a bit, is that Sarah a long time ago read the books and she doesn't care about canon. She cares about Rh*enicent only, and that is why the worse choices on this show comes from her. She character assassinated Rhenys and Alicent over the "motherhood message" she fails to execute properly because at end of the day she is not a good writer when her bias come into play.

I know people like to put Ryan and her in the same bag, but at least with him for what I know, he is the one that care more about the source material and keep in touch with Martin. He is the one a bit to enamored with Daenerys and tries to bring her in the context of the story and subtext? Yes. But that doesn't bothers me as much compared to the others issues this show have, because in a weird way there is more ground for it.

And I feel at this point there is no way to come around those choices. Because S2 was the last chance of changing the subject a bit. Seasons 2 usually are one of the best of any story because it opens to the possibility of you explore new characters and expend the word building.

What we got was hints at most. Aegon, I give them that, he is well explored this season.

But besides him and the main trio, the relationships between the characters on tg and tb are so poorly dipped. It mostly happened to move the plot. Or happened of screen aka Heleana.

So is no surprise to me that they would cut so much. And is dumb. Because a show that tries to level up to Got so hard, doesn't understand one of the strongest point was the diverse cast of characters, instead of focusing on 3 main characters is just dumb.