#she DOES show up at the end of KC's arc in the show

[socksandbuttons]

(Not sure if this is the askbox of is asks are closed. If I’m doing a whoopsie I’m sorry) I just discovered your Baby Backups AU and I got an idea when I was reading this: Eclipse actually wants to be there for his kids and give them the same love they gave him. But he knows he has issues he needs to work up. He scared of having them turn on him like Lunar did. So, in as an absolute last resort, he knocks on Earth’s door and ask for therapy

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You are in the submissions, my askbox is labelled ‘Yessir?” but thats fine. It works either way Eclipse is in utter denial in the BB au a bit. He IS yes terrified theyll leave him but also- He is projecting a LIL bit with how theyre affectionate with one another. He’s more keeping the kids AWAY from the Daycare people because he thinks (and knows) they’ll take the babies away. KC is a mediator here. But eclipse looking for earth for therapy.... Nice.

[goodolddumbbanana]

Tw: hate Puppet.

Okay, I will say something that makes Puppet and Eclipse show fans hate me.

The Puppet and Eclipse show has become really bland since Stichwarth arc over.

And I hate how they handle the Eclipse redemption arc now.

Let's talk about Puppet first. I used to love her, but now, all the feelings I have for her are annoying. She just has to touch everything, and force her way on anyone. She is like a Mary Sue, with her backstory and the way people have to do anything she wants, which it really ironically because she is some kinda God.

She said Eclipse is not the same person as he was before (Eclipse v1), but still when Solar died, she yelled and demanded him to find some way to fix or revive Solar.

She crashed in Eclipse's house, and pressed him into pressure to make him help her fix the thing with KC and Evil Puppet.

She stops him from doing what he wanted (getting the heck out of this dimension's craps) and scams him to sign some contracts, making him forcefully stay with her just because Monty and Foxy didn't want to do the show anymore.

I would like Eclipse's redemption arc more, but with the way Puppet literally forced her into making Eclipse redemption, really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Because it is not by choice, because you have to be forced to redemption. Because you get everything that makes you, hold you dear, what builds you who you are shred off from you all due because people don't like what you are, so they turn and make you into something more easily to work with. You are not learning anything, you are just changing and you just keep this feeling of hopelessness through all this process, because you have never had a choice on the first place. They never like you. They only like the idea of you and what potentially who you can become...

And with Sun... Yeah, I know what you will say. Just another Sun fan who hates the world. So annoying~~~

But truthfully, Sun has been a butt joke of the show since day 1. He has been belittled, talked down, insulted, tortured or worse, ignored. He likes a trashcan that people keep throwing at because it is funny (which it is not)

PUPPET is All Seeing, but she keeps asking Sun to make a choice about... 'Oh well, let's kill your brother Sun, or you can choose not to, but it will make you a horrible person because that man will destroy everything on his road and everyone will get hurt, all because you don't want to do anything about him.'

She created an illusion of choice for Sun and has Foxy and Monty like lab dogs to do her bidding. What is the point of making Sun choose, when it ended up just for Puppet to do whatever hell she liked?

(Sun pointed that out too on the show, and ironically, people hated Sun for that because it makes him a coward.)

And then, she literally abandoned her son (Freddy) without saying goodbye to raise another son (FC) the one who seemingly she cares more than the one she abandoned.

And even in the newest dimension, I am not talking about Foxy, he just feels like blending with the background now.

Now they have to poke on the biggest hive, Sun and Moon.

I understand what Eclipse comes from, because well, he is always a piece of crap with Sun, but Puppet and Francis and literally anyone else? With the way Sunrise does not want to help and cooperate with Moondrop?

Even with the people outside the universe?

They all think Sun is a problem, or this Sunrise is a problem. Because guess what?

Sure Eclipse can be a misunderstood piss boy. Sure whatever horrible original Moon did can be taken as it is because of his Killcode, and Moon is just a baby who didn't do anything wrong.

But Sun... Sun... Sun needs to do everything right, or else he will be a selfish, cowardly, annoying, idiot...

Because you are just freshly born and you have this thing which is always making you in pain and you have no control or way to stop it. Because all the staff are assholes and these are freshly new friends (Puppet, Eclipse and Francis) keeps asking about the thing that causes you pain since day one and forces you and criticizes you about why you don't cooperate with it, why you don't be nicer with it like it is really easy for them to say. Because you can't control anything even your body, and now they want you to do it, for something that supposedly making your life a torture everyday, leading you even afraid of darkness or wanting to walk outside?

Fat chance. They don't understand, and you don't need them too. Because guess what, it is you the one who deals with consequences of that thing, not them.

I admit this Sunrise is selfish, because like I said before, it is not everyone this easily to forgive like our Sun.

But the way people belittled him (Puppet, Francis,...), forced him to change into Moon model, and express the disappointment when Sunrise doesn't like Moondrop?

Really reminds me of Eclipse v1.

They can sympathise with Eclipse, Eclipse can even sympathise and help Moondrop, but come to Sunrise? No...

Sunrise to Eclipse is just a dense parasite, Sunrise to Puppet and Francis are just a selfish brat.

And it is so sad, because I know where Eclipse comes from, he is just bitter and shit even though he is the one who is wrong but Puppet and Francis? I expect better from them.

And outside the show, this really makes people think it is what Sun, our Sun is like from day 1.

Which it didn't. Sun never knows about Moon's appearance, when Moon comes out, Moon is so angry that he literally tortured and made Sun's life into a living hell for a year. And Sun always wants a brother, Sun asks for a share and guess what Moon says: haha no.

It took Moon a long time to learn that Sun does not deserve to be tortured into his thick head. And When eclipse makes friends with Earth, I'm kinda uncomfortable but agree because this is not Eclipse v1.

But then he hopped into the new dimension and immediately inflected his trauma on Sun like Eclipse v1 used too? And with Puppet helps like she is Lunar v2? Haha, I hate that show now so much.

And this time, Eclipse is not even that hot. And Sun, has no one to rely on, which leaves the situation with a really bad taste.

Hope they do not make this Sunrise and antagonist, or puss over, else I would be very mad.

[thelovelydoggycatmadi]

me and lions objectively correct mystreet character ranking (not clickbait fr fr)

So let me explain the ranks here a bit and why characters are in certain places:

S Tier: Characters that have a solid foundation or general character arcs that both me and Lion liked they’re story and character was enjoyable from beginning to end.

Lucinda is the only S tier character because she managed to remained both consistent character throughout the show. And while she doesn’t have a general arc that really doesn’t make her character any less likable. She’s just a silly little guy that activates the neurons.

A Tier: characters that we found really strong and compelling but have one really big glaring issue from putting them in S.

Rowan is here simply because he was really enjoyable, a genuine healthy father figure, and was just super cool to watch. His problem: lack of screen time.

Zianna has the same problem as Rowan her importance to the plot overall is also a factor.

Zane and Kc have the problems of both certain parts of there stories leaving us feeling icky. Like Zane becoming an over protective incel that sees aph as an object, or KC’s shipping shrine and canonically being a stalker.

B Tier are characters that we liked but just simply couldn’t peek are interest character wise due to one reason or another.

I’m gonna try and speed run the rest of these so:

Garroth: same problem with Zane but worse his obsession with aph even with or without the inclusion of mcd feels unearned and generally problematic. He’s goofy though and has a solid character arc with his brother

Eric and Terry: goofy and likable but nothing much outside of that also besides Rowan they are the only good parental figures in the show. (Eric is higher because he has more screen time)

Daniel: he’s voiced by ross has an interesting character concept, he’s the only werewolf character that didn’t frustrate me personally at some point. He’s just not all that important.

vlyad teony and GF captain: all interesting characters that weren’t in the show enough.

blaze: making in here on charm and charisma alone. (Also because our friend June fell in love with him, you can imagine his reaction to season 6.)

Brandon: mainly here because Lion said so.

C tier is mostly for the meh characters that we didn’t feel super strongly about for the most part.

Travis: didn’t have a decent enough character or story to really make us care in anyway. While pm seymour gave it their all it wasn’t really enough to keep us engaged.

Laurence: he has like one or two really good moments. And some laughs. Didn’t keep me or him engaged, especially after he just vanished.

from Ivy to kai: all these characters have really likable personalities and stories but they all generally had the one thing in common where they just weren’t in the show enough or there character took a direction we agreed wasn’t all that good or interesting.

Ivan: he serves his purpose as a one off villain. That’s all.

White haired girl: she just exist for a bump in the road in Aarmau.

Aphmau: none of her arcs are interesting, her personality isn’t consistent and when Jess does stick to a personality for her it’s generally not that likable.

D Tier: where hitting characters that both of us generally felt were lacking or straight up didn’t like.

Sylvanna: this may shock some of you but I’m going to be brutally honest, half of the reason y’all like her is because you HC her as being overprotective because Aaron is a groomer. Now let me be clear that’s not a problem, however that doesn’t change the fact in the actual show, it’s written more like an emotional incest situation. If Aaron being a groomer was “played straight” as it were she’d be much higher. But the canon reason of her overprotective (at least the reason were given initially) is that Aaron does a better job at taking care of Aph. It’s not because she actually fears Aph is in danger as we come to learn. It leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Nicole: didn’t like that Dante was the one punished for their break up. They even mention later that she was being unreasonable. But Dante was at fault don’t get me wrong. But she also wasn’t in the show a hole lot and from what we see of her, just didn’t stick out to us.

Michi: plot device in character form, she could’ve been so much better if her character wasn’t watered down to “Aarmau Speed Bump”

From Kacey to Nekoette: all characters that felt shoved in for plot purposes and didn’t have enough personality to make up for it. They all range of for being added for stupid reasons like another conflict or fan-service. Some of these are even combinations of those reasons plus they just have some really unlikable moments that rubbed us the wrong way or even worse did not help the plot at all by being there.

Katelyn: I’ve made it extremely clear I don’t like this character and she’s at the very bottom because I believe her offenses are worse than most characters before but don’t deserve hell tier. She technically “works through” her fantasy racism and other problems just not in a compelling or even satisfying way. Even her reasons just didn’t justify her actions for us.

HELL: characters that did morally deplorable things therefore we did not like them on principal. ONTOP of being poorly written because in this series they go hand in hand.

Rachel gaslit her son and told Melissa to get Aaron home by any means necessary and that was implied to be the blackmail Melissa got from Michi. She generally invaded his privacy and almost ruined her son and an innocent girls relationship because of toxic traditional family values. (I believe she would’ve done this with or without the ultima curse, remember, that all what I just wrote was something written before that was even conceived.) and then does a 180 when season 5 hits. We all laughed and played crab rave when she was publicly executed.

Elizabeth abandoned her kids don’t care if that part wasn’t her fault because she was sealed away because again that was written before season 4-5 (we also see Zack abandoning his kid so like it’s implied she did it before she was sealed away anyway.) Also allowed a literal demon to do experiment a on her daughter. She doesn’t get any satisfying conclusion to her villain arc and she’s part of the post credit cliffhanger.

Zack cheated on his wife and abandoned his child after experimenting on her and was Michaels right hand only to grow a conscious after the literal child abuser tells him to produce a spine. Was not in the show enough to be a “I love to hate” kinda character.

Garte and Derek are both on the list for basically the same reason neither of there characters end in a satisfying way. Dereks just worse because he directly abused Aaron verbally.

Emmalyn is here because me and Lion took her as a stand in for ghost sense they are the same character. And she SA’s Zane. Ghost also confuses the plot heavily. And made the story so hard to follow in season 6. She actively makes both the story worse both inside and out.

Ein stalked and mind controlled multiple characters and was both indirectly and directly responsible for multiple innocent peoples deaths. There’s more you could say about him but he’s just not a compelling villain. His plans are not his own, the plans he does come up with only work by chance. He’s basically if you took Michi and cranked her up to 11.

Micheal is a really bad uncompelling villain outside of MCD besides killing people and world domination or whatever. He does nothing interesting with the time he’s given.

Balto and Aaron are both different flavors of pedos. Balto tries ask aph to prom, like even if bruh was just doing it for power; what the fuck. Even if was compelling he wouldn’t be any higher.

Gene is also a pedophile and gets Ein to take pictures of her when he graduates college, which is a shame because he actually does have a compelling story but because of how problematic his flaw is we couldn’t rank him any higher.

Aaron has been talked to death about so I won’t repeat what’s been said a hundred times over. But pedophillia, mass genocide, and a general inconsistent characterization is everyone’s main problem.

Ace: Our friend Ace was in call with us, we gave her one chance to save a character from a lower tier.

Melissa: originally in hell tier for enabling her parents and taking black mail from Michi, and just not having a spine when it came to the abuse of Aaron and that part of her character being sweated under the rug as she hardly had any consequences for gaslighting him. Even going so far to say they’ve changed and have gotten better when they clearly had not. Emotionally manipulating him at almost any chance she had. The reason why she rescued her and not her other choice Aphmau is because Ace is a lesbian.

[scienter]

Couldn't contain myself from sending this ask since I saw your other anon mention Plec's interview about Caroline being picked first.This instantly brought back memories.When I first read the interview, it had made me angry because the last thing I wanted was for Caroline to be picked passively.Caroline's character arc should have been about becoming a woman who would not only,actively,find 'The One' for herself but also would be the active decider,picker and chooser of whether she wanted to pursue a relationship with 'the one' that is good for her wellbeing.While this was achieved to an extent(because it's TVD & especially Steroline so expectations had to be kept low) in SC's narrative, Caroline was still reduced to having no voice at all in the finale via plot contrivance and Aldrich hinted at KlArOlInE ,with his voiceover ,that is often weaponized by the Carolaus-ers as a sign of Epic,True *insert other existing tvd jargon* Love.Basically,the point of this rant is that Caroline's narrative never had anything to do with KC which is why I think(I might be wrong though) an interview like that wasn't necessarily meant for Caroline's arc on TVD.It was rather a nod to a certain belief that the KC-ers wanted to hold on to( since Caroline was their favourite self-projection & still remains so) that eventually materialised in the form of the KC acknowledgement in the series finale of TVD i.e

3 billion dollar+However Long.... = Picked FIRST.

By the way,serious question.How do you think Caroline celebrates this true love of hers for Kloos?Does she carry the metal pole/lamp,on her shoulder, that he impaled her with, to his memorial site ?She must have had it engraved with "You are not the villain of my story". You know Nostalgia and all that!

*pony neighs in the distance*

Hey, anon! I agree that JP was indulging in Klaroline fandom with that interview because she had to hype up the audience to keep them tuning in. To be fair, she did it with all the ships. It’s just part of promoting the show.

Anyway, I think your assessment of Caroline's arc is accurate because so much time was spent on building Caroline’s confidence and sense of self-worth. While Caroline looked for external validation during season 1, by the end of the show Caroline’s belief in herself was one of her defining characteristics.

3 billion dollar+However Long.... = Picked FIRST. By the way, serious question. How do you think Caroline celebrates this true love of hers for Kloos? Does she carry the metal pole/lamp, on her shoulder, that he impaled her with, to his memorial site? She must have had it engraved with "You are not the villain of my story". You know Nostalgia and all that! *pony neighs in the distance*

[limeadelizard]

Plec putting Bonnie with Enzo is a funny case because it’s exactly what she said she didn’t want for Bonnie while also being exactly what she wanted for Bonnie.

If people were asking for BE back in season five or six, I’m confident that he would be another murderous vampire that Bonnie would have too much integrity to get with. At first, he had more of a relationship with Caroline. But she was wrapped up in another ship Plec cared more about, and as the show went on it became clear the writers were struggling with his storyline.

By all logic, Bonnie should have no reason to be interested in Enzo. He had hurt her and her friends, and now he’s siding with the people Bonnie wanted to protect herself from and pining after the woman she holds responsible for never being able to see Elena again. On top of that, Bonnie had just came out of a traumatic arc with another antagonist that lead to her wanting to put herself first. You would think he’d be the last guy she’d give a damn about.

But as loyal and good and moral as she may be, Bonnie’s true purpose in the show is to be the helper, to fix other people’s problems. And Enzo needed help.

Enzo wasn’t worse than other antagonists on the show and had moments of both evil and sympathy. He also had little backstory and relevance, which made him easy to basically rewrite after his epic make Stefan miserable plot failed, and our resident plot device just happened to be in need of a love interest after the departure of Jeremy and the rise of Bamon and Bonkai shippers. Given all this, it’s not hard to see why a pairing between these two characters would be convenient despite making little sense.

And BE could’ve been written decently, even if it was conceived to pair the spares. Enzo didn’t care about the MF gang, which could’ve been an interesting aspect to explore. Hell, Bonnie’s mistreatment by her friends is basically a key component in almost every Bonnie x villain ship story. But pairing her with him didn’t free her from them in the long run. It only kept her isolated, because Enzo was also isolated. Despite telling her she deserved better, he wasn’t able to help Bonnie truly grow as a character. Being with him didn’t give Bonnie a career, any hobbies (interestingly enough, we see her participate in his hobby but not the other way around), any more friends or connections, and she didn’t even have any magic (interestingly enough again, thanks to him). She still got stuck with the same “I’m dying but it’s okay I’m just happy to be with my bf” story.

Bonnie and Enzo aren’t the first enemies-to-lovers, redemptive romance on the show. However, compared to ships like DE and KC and even SE, there is a darkness, for lack of a better word, that I don’t see with BE. Now whether those ships were handled well or are really dark at all is debatable, but that side is there. Fans had long been waiting to see Bonnie date a vampire, and Enzo is a vampire. But despite the fact that witches and vampires are supposed to be enemies, the only times his vampirism is brought up is when she turns into the huntress and wants to kill vampires, which is something she has no control over, and when he suggests she turn so they can be together forever. In both cases it’s portrayed as something not significant, just like any other normal difference any couple would have to work out. In other ships, the male character’s wickedness does strain his relationship with his love interest, who he’s allowed to obsess over while still being murderous. But in Enzo’s case he’s just portrayed as a lonely misguided woobie who needs to be loved, and when he gets that from Bonnie his character development ends.

Then there’s the development of the relationship. Not only is Enzo in love with another woman first, but the writers have Bonnie giving him advice and telling him he deserves better and trying to understand him. They have had no substantial relationship, so she doesn’t even really know him much less have a reason to care, but she does it anyway. She’s the one who has to reach out first, and only after he is left with no one else and realizes how loyal she is to Damon (who abandoned both of them) does he reciprocate.

There’s no reason why their relationship had to be written this way unless it was being written with hatred for Bonnie, as if the writers wanted to say “we’ll give Bonnie what she deserves, but we’ll make her work for it and then we’ll take it away!” If Enzo had to be in love with Lily at all, they could’ve had him choose Bonnie over her, but instead they had to make it clear she didn’t want him and killed her off. They didn’t have to have Enzo make comments like “lovelorn witch” and say she’s never been fought over, unless they knew what they were doing. They have Bonnie be interested in finding a man, but we don’t see her going on any dates or any guys flirting with her or anything. She matches up with Matt on a dating site, and I guess it’s supposed to be funny because lol she’s having so much trouble she gets matched up with her friend (who gets his own new love interest), what a failure, right? Oh, but we know she’s going to get with Enzo so it’s okay, teehee, see what we’re doing here? :) Funny enough, we’ve seen Enzo flirt with and pursue people, and we’ve even seen Bonnie be flirted with, but when it comes to making a relationship between the two happen, he can’t be into her from the start? And if Bonnie had to spend another season helping people as she always does, why couldn’t Enzo be the one exception? Her relationship with him is really no different from her platonic ones.

All Bonnie and Enzo really have in common is being loyal to people who don’t care about them. That’s literally the basis for the ship, and at the end of the series, really all their characters amount to individually. Bonnie’s so beautiful and strong and has so much love to give, but it’s apparently unfathomable that anyone would see that without her having to see her prove herself first.

Say what you want about BD or BK, but at least those ships had some history. They were relationships that were playing out at the time, and fans were interested in how they would develop. There was material for people to speculate on and analyze. Contrast to BE, who only had a few scenes in season five and one at the end of season six. They had no real relationship, so while fans may have been open to it, this wasn’t something people were already passionate about.

Putting them together was a way of trying to curtail that excitement over other pairings that weren’t wanted by Plec and shift it to something that she had control over, and the flash forward was the perfect format for this. Their first moment is meant to make you go “whaaaat?” so you’ll have to keep watching to wait and see what happens. And of course it’s not until almost the end of the season that we see them actually become a couple... and it’s in a flashback.

BE might not make sense for the Bonnie who is too good for evil vampires, but it makes perfect sense for the Bonnie who is undesirable, who has to always put others first, and has to earn the tiniest amount of happiness for herself, and is fine with all of that.

[howaboutalittlehelpneos]

YGO! Questionnaire

Tagged by @cipher-wise

Pleasantly surprised to be in one of these, so let’s go

Favorite series: *Gestures to icon* Is it any surprise I’ll be picking GX? I love GX with all my heart and soul. The story’s pacing is very good and never feels like it’s dragging its feet to get to where it’s going, most duels are over in less than a full episode with the longest one being three, there are so many good characters to get invested in, and this boy right here is your protagonist.

Look at him blow kisses to the audience after beating Crowler, how could anyone not love Jaden Yuki? I care him so much. Even the filler episodes in GX are pretty fun to watch most of the time, and it’s the good kind of filler that may not advance the plot much or at all, but it’ll give you plenty of good memories to take with you. Who could possibly forget the eggwich thief? Not to mention the soundtrack fucking slaps.

Favorite protagonist: I mean...

Yeah it’s Jaden. GX hooked me immediately when I started watching it because of how much I loved this boy. He’s that perfect mix of cocky and sweet when it comes to dueling because he’s confident in his own abilities, but he never stops having fun and being amazed at what his opponent can do, he cares about all of his friends and does his best to help them with their problems, he’s kind to strangers, and he has exactly half a brain cell. 

I feel the gif speaks for itself, but Jaden’s dialogue when he turns around here is “I’m such a sucker for things like this! I’ll help you, ma’am!” Dorothy says “No, you’ll be late... Don’t you have a test today?” And Jaden replies with “Who cares if I’m late? I couldn’t leave a lady in trouble!” Jaden Yuki is my absolute favorite protagonist.

Favorite rival: Oh man is that a tough one. Am I allowed to pick two? It’s a hard call to make between this dumb edgy bitch-

And this dumb gay bitch

Honestly they’re tied for favorite rival in my book. I absolutely loved Chazz when I watched GX, and I thought his arc about breaking through his inferiority/superiority complex and learning to accept loss as a part of life without letting it define him was wonderfully written, and seeing him grow as a person throughout the show just made me feel happy for him. Shark... I really thought I wasn’t going to end up liking Shark at first, but god he just gets so much better as Zexal goes on, starting out as this mean spirited middle school bully in episode one, and slowly ending up as Yuma’s boyfriend closest friend. It’s incredible to look back at how Shark acts when he’s first introduced and compare it to... season 3, I think it was, where just hearing the words “Yuma’s in danger” is enough to send him running to his rival’s side. Chazz and Shark. They are my favorites.

Favorite BFF: Him

Crow Hogan is an absolute treasure and he was my favorite part about watching 5Ds. This little bird man first gets introduced by stealing cards for his kids and clowning on Sector Security, and he’s a source of so much good throughout the show. Excellent best friend (technically brother but I’m counting him), wonderful father, 10/10 person all around. Plus the fact that the only thing stopping him from berating his bitchass brother even more was Yusei having to literally pick him up and pull him away is definitely extra points in my book. What a powerful little bird. His only weakness is people that are taller than him, which is unfortunately most people.

Favorite GFF:

Yuzu. Have I actually watched Arc V yet? No, but I’m still picking Yuzu for my number one here. Tea and Tori are just awful characters, I’m neutral towards Alexis, and Akiza... Did have potential to be something interesting on her own, despite how uncomfortable she made me in seasons 1-2 of 5Ds, but her relevance is alllll downhill from there. I’ve seen one clip of Yuzu yelling at a man eating pie and calling him a 100th rate duelist, and that was all I needed to know she would be my favorite. (Clip here) 

Favorite villain: Oh boy

The fuckin carrot is my favorite villain, and I say this as someone who fully believes he didn’t deserve to be in the last episode. Vector did some fucked up shit in his day, and he only continued to do fucked up shit in Yuma’s day, but I have to say he was pretty effective when it came down to his goals. He got things done and went right for what he wanted by taking direct action to seize Don Thousand’s power, and he manipulated Yuma perfectly by preying on his kind nature and love for Astral to use him to further his goals. 

...Plus I mean just look at his subbed dialogue God he’s such a slut. Evil slutty alien.

Tl;dr Vector was a horrible horrible person, but he was a good villain, and he was so entertaining whenever he was on screen that it was impossible not to like him. Still kinda wish he got what he deserved though, and what he deserved definitely wasn’t another chance.

Speaking of Don Thousand though, can we talk about how unfairly pretty he is? If I had to pick a runner up villain in terms of looks alone, it would definitely be him.

God it was not fair how pretty the big bad of Zexal was. He’s fucking gorgeous, and in my opinion, the best looking villain at the very least.

Favorite card: *Sweats in Duel Links* Favorite? There’s so many cards out there to pick from, but since I’ve already broken the rules with my two favorite rivals, I’ll be picking two of each card type: Spells, traps, and monsters. One for the aesthetic, and one for how often I make use of it.

First up, the Aesthetics group

What can I say, Vampiric Koala is such a cutie, Dwimmered Path has some really pretty card art, and Rainbow Life is an eternal flex on any heteros I may encounter while playing Duel Links. Nothing better than a gay trap card.

Now for usability

Dragon Knight of Creation is suuuper helpful in any dragon themed deck and has a permanent slot in my decks for Mokuba and Kaiba, PoG is always a fun way to boost up weak monsters to ridiculous heights, and Dark Bribe just lets you block your opponent like “Okay I know you wanna hurt me but I will let you draw another card if you do not do that thing”, and they can’t refuse you.

Favorite episode: I’ll be copying cipher’s format here and picking one for each series, but this will still only total out to five for me since I’ve yet to watch past Zexal ^^; Soon I’ll get to Arc V! One day...

Season 0: Episode 16:  Turnabout by a Hair's Breadth - The White-Robed Crisis I’m a sucker for my son Joey, and this was a good Joey episode about him and his sister, plus it was nice seeing that doctor get what he deserved :) Duel Monsters: Season 5, episode 12-14:  The Deciding Match for Duel King - Yugi vs. Leon/Golden Castle of Stromberg/KC Grand Prix Ends  Probably a weird batch of episodes to pick, I know, but a lot of DM was kinda forgettable to me, and these are some of the few episodes I do recall. I just... really felt for Leon’s situation, and I wanted good things for that boy. I care him. GX: Season 3, episode 34: Dark Fusion! Inferno Wing!! Jim. Jim Jim Jimmmmm. This was the episode that finally made me understand why saviorshipping was a thing because it hits you with all these memories Jim has of Jaden and shows how they bonded before all this Dark World shit happened, and the whole thing was very emotional. 5Ds: Season 4, episode 2-3:  Recollections, Entrusted with a Friend's Dying Wish God Crow, my precious bird son. I really liked the backstory they gave him, despite how much it hurt. It was probably the best character development he got in the whole of 5Ds, and let you see a side to him you probably wouldn’t expect. I loved watching him get his justice. Zexal II: Season 2, episode 5-6:  Alito the Silent Fighter - Reunion of the Passionate Duelists!/ Be Revived! The Duelist Soul That Transcends Life!! I picked these episodes for Nistro and Nistro alone. He was one of my absolute favorites in Zexal, and seeing how well he and Dextra were doing was good for the soul. Just look at this good lion man right here.

Look at him!!!

Favorite decks to use: Elemental Heroes, Aromages, Red Eyes, Six Samurai, and Crystal Beasts.

Fusion, Ritual, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, or Link: I’m a simple girl, I love fusion/tributes for how easy they are, but synchro can be pretty fun, too

Years in fandom: ??? Even I don’t know the answer to this one, friends. I used to be in the fandom when I was in middle school, wrote/read a few fanfics here and there, but then I fell out of it for... Well I’m 22 now and only got back into things 6 months ago? I started rewatching the abridged series of Duel Monsters in March, and from there I just wanted to consume actual Yugioh content and never went back.

Who am I tagging: @finding-fallen-petals @dizziedaikonn​ @chazzaroo​ Go wild y’all

[edwardslostalchemy]

the thing that kills me about bakugou is when the plf go "having a powerful quirk means i'm better than you"and basically advocate for eugenics, it's horrible and corrupt, but when bakugou does it, it's lol funny and 'oh that gremlin.' in a recent chapter he made fun of the past OFA holders for having 'weak' quirks and dying and he said these things in front of Toshi, who has himself given so much. just...what was the point of him knowing about OFA if he was just going to be a disrespectful ass?

I have no idea why it was necessary for him to know, tbh. I think it was a waste of an opportunity to give him growth by NOT telling him. And honestly, I agree that k*tsuki and the plf have similar ideals because they’re elitists. :/ They think they’re better than others. Unironically, the lov wanting k*tsuki on their side would have been like, them all sharing this same thought. Idk, I just don’t like him. The things he says and does are played off as comedic relief now and it’s honestly so annoying. He needs to be brought down from his pedestal. 

(I have multiple messages so I am putting them all in one post under a read more, I hope it works, but if somehow it doesn’t, I’m really sorry. My computer says it works, but mobile doesn’t show it. This will be a long post.)

Anonymous said:

You know... I wouldn’t mind Bakugou winning vs Ochako so much if his blast had simply redirected enough rubble for him to make it though the pelting, and the fight had ended with an actual visible inflicted injury on his part, like a cut on his face, that stuck around for the rest of the tournament. Make the close call have more concrete, visible consequences for him then his arms aching a bit.

I agree with this completely. That thing about his arms aching doesn’t show much of the consequences at all. And he gets over it rather quickly. I hate that he has so much plot armor.

Anonymous said:

Ngl i dont ship Todo/deku (dont really ship Izuku with anyone lol) but its such a nice ship like?? People can ship what they want but why ship Baku/deku when Tododeku is RIGHT THERE. I would rather have todo/deku be the twin stars like.. Todoroki having to overcome his fathers legacy and be a better hero then his father ever could be while Izuku perpetuates all mights legacy and carries the legacy of One For All?? Poetic cinema

+ I SENT AN ASK ABOUT PREFERRING TODO/DEKU TO BAKU/DEKU AND I WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING SKSKS. we could totally have an "its your power" moment. Izuku getting Todo to accept his left side and Todo getting Izuku to remember that OFA is his power now.

Todo/deku is really the poetic cinema we need and deserve. Idk why people like b*kud*ku, that’s what they prefer, but the ship itself is not healthy in the slightest and I find it pretty disturbing. I agree with you, nony. Everything you said is correct.

Anonymous said:

If I'm gonna be honest the whole "he was raised in a household of screaming and abuse" isn't a good enough reason as to why Bakugo has no chill. Like we've seen people like Todoroki raised in a household much worst but he didn't come out as a jerk or bully. I'd like to see more of Bakugo's interactions with his parents but for the most part the dad seems like a pushover and his mom is just loud at times. But no where close to Endeavor. So yeah Bakugo shut up challenge

Yeah, idk how their dynamic works, it’s just mitsuki screaming at k*tsuki while his dad tries to intervene, but doesn’t do a good job about it. I don’t like that she smacked his head. But I think people really stretch it to give him a tragic backstory when in reality, he doesn’t have one. He is a spoiled brat. Shouto has proven how to be a better person. He’s just a better character in general.

Anonymous said:

This might be long but I want to get something off my chest and I love your blog so I used to like bk//dk. If you asked me why. It's because I was enamored by the fanon ver of this pair with a better bkg and the whole appeal of childhood 'friends'/reconciliation trope it had going on and some fans have convinced me that their relationship wasn't as bad as it's portrayed before UA and that bkg was only like that because of society and thinking Izuku was "looking down" at him. 1/3

Thinking about it. it's really stupid and the verge of victim blaming but anyways. What stopped me from liking it and instead hating the pair is that after dk vs kc 2 I was expecting the improvement in their relationship, for a moment I thought we got it. But in reality it's just bc we haven't seen them interact much after the overhaul arc and before the joint training arc.Then the joint arc came and the 2nd internship arc came and whoo boy, I feel like I was cheated on. 2/3

Rather than making bkg's behavior improve towards Izuku, He's still as much of an asshole who belittles him, mocks him ,acts like he can't stand him but less threats of killing him combined with Izuku who just takes it because he's a nice person. But the narrative acts like their good friends now and I have been feeling so frustrated with this, I wanted a mutual relationship with mutual respect on both sides and bk//dk hasn't reached that part and it shouldn't take this long for it to be. 3/3

Thank you for sharing this with me, nony!! I appreciate it. It’s really sad that their relationship hasn’t improved at all. It’s so long overdue and now things are played as comedic relief like him hurting Izuku with his spike and also being extremely disrespectful during the ofa meetings. Their relationship isn’t healthy and it isn’t friendly, no matter how canon wants to paint it that way.

Anonymous said:

the only reason bkg gets to know OFA is because he guilted Izu into telling him a half truth in S1 then guilted AM and Izu with his tantrum in S3 He also had the privilege to know Izu since childhood and saw AFO so he had the advantage Izuku would have never told him otherwise. Same time Izuku's friends don't "deserve" to know about OFA, rather, Izuku deciding to tell them himself will make the revelation to them more special since its Izu deciding to tell a piece of himself than being forced to

HOT TAKE

@havocsss said:

i just wanted to say i appreciate your opinion on bnha about bakugo (bc someone finally said it 👀) and you put into words for me how i feel abt that character - and that's partly why i just can't watch it. he's the bully that everyone idolises and gets let away with murder and naaaah mate that's not how it works

Thank you, I’m glad to hear it. I don’t like that he, a literal bully who has suicide baited Izuku and has hurt him with his explosion quirk, is the fandom’s favorite and the most popular character. Literally any other character would have been better to stan than him. He’s everywhere and I can’t enjoy part of the series because of him always being there. It’s so annoying. I will continue to yell about why he is not a good character until horikoshi gives us the development he desperately needs AND an apology to Izuku for being so abusive to him. And yes, bullying is abuse.

Anonymous said:

I know that feeling. I also greatly dislike Bakugou. He almost ruins the manga for me at times. I can't even think of a plot with Izuku where Hori won't try to include him in some way. I tried reading metas abt him, tried to look at him in a different light but I realised that I really hate his personality, combined with his overhyped popularity just makes me can't stand him. I wish I could even just be neutral for him but that's being a challenge.

Yeah, he’s not a good character. Very infuriating and annoying. We do not stan him in this house.

Anonymous said:

I feel like if Aizawa actually knew that Bakugou used to bully Izuku he'd probably whoop Bakugou's ass

OOF I’d like to see him expel him.

Anonymous said:

I like how it's framed like I'm supposed to feel sorry for Bakugou because he feels manpain for not being the strongest in the class. Like the dude went from a regular school to the best of the best and he still expected to be the strongest person there is with no challenge?

Awww, is the spoiled brat sad? Good. He can die mad about it.

Anonymous said:

If Aizawa did the combat training instead of All Might he would've stopped Bakugou the first time he used his gauntlets and automatically failed him and I really wish that would've been the outcome

Tbh he should have been expelled for trying to kill a classmate.

Anonymous said:

Oh yeah I remember that character entrance when he just basically I insults his partner for training. Look I love the kid but if I was a teacher I would've flamed him so hard like there could've been a hostage, that weapon could have went off, his partner could've been captured. That's how you ended up failing the license exam

OOF. When will he learn.

Anonymous said:

Um excuse the ever living fuck out of me but I just saw a fic that was bakugou/consequences where Izuku attempted suicide and you know what the ship was?? My pure green son who deserves the world and his literal bully/abuser are you SHITTING ME???? I try very hard not to hate ships I do really try but I just CAN'T with this ship it disgusts me

It's not a healthy ship. I am disturbed by this fic and I don’t even know what it’s called and I don’t want to know. Eww.

Anonymous said:

I see myself as Izuku cause I relate to him a lot and I just read something where Bakugou does what my abuser did to me to Izuku and now I'm having a very hard time stomaching the thought of him and like I really loved kiri/baku too but now I can't even think about it cause someone who shipped my notp thought it would be a good idea to make Bakugou an abuser and give Izuku Stockholm syndrome ☹

Oh nony…I’m so sorry to hear about that. That really sounds rough and I hope you’re feeling better. That sounds awful. I’m just…I’m appalled. Also giving Izuku Stockholm syndrome with this ship is just. Wow.

[nonbinarylaurance]

:eyes: can u pls tell me abt both mcd n ms kc

Yes I can!

Uuu I’ll go with MCD first

- Her introduction is MCD is set up relatively similarly, although the timeline in comparison to the original is very different so it doesn’t really line up with that. She’s found in her Maid Café in the middle of seemingly nowhere by Aphmau on her way home to Phoenix Drop. She stops there, and Kawaii-Chan serves her some tea and cookies during her visit. The topic of Phoenix Drop and Aphmau’s status as lord there comes up, and, seeing a chance to maybe actually get customers, Kawaii-Chan asks if Aphmau would mind her setting up her café in Phoenix Drop. Aphmau doesn’t see any reason why she couldn’t, so after marking Phoenix Drop on a map for Kawaii-Chan, Aphmau sets off, and a few days later, Kawaii-Chan arrives in Phoenix Drop with a backpack and her dolls in tow to set up her café.

- Her overall character arc is centered around her identity issues. Due to her large family making her feel like just another one of her siblings, and a very lonely adult life before Phoenix Drop (as her poorly placed Maid Café is intended to hint at), Kawaii-Chan has very little sense of her own identity once she tries to differentiate herself. She’s kind and polite, because her parents taught her to be respectful, and she knows she genuinely loves baking, doing it even when all alone, but besides that, she’s incredibly unsure of who “Kawaii-Chan” is, just who “Nana” was supposed to be. Because of this, she thinks to be “Kawaii-Chan” she has to constantly be sweet and peppy, and as such a lot of her initial interactions with others seemed forced and in-genuine, leading her to have difficulty forming strong friendships in Phoenix Drop until she begins to ease into her own identity and accept that she can be herself without having to be the sweet, overly-cute person she pretends to be.

- In Mystreet, her identity issues manifest in a different way, while also becoming intertwined with her issues with her gender, as although all my interpretations of her are fem-aligned nonbinary, the modern setting allows her to name it as such. The school system grants her the chance to have a lot more socialization up to her adult life, but she finds she only begins making friends once she begins acting overly-girly and cute to differentiate herself from her siblings, around the end of middle school. This is around the same time as she comes out as trans, although she doesn’t fully figure out being nonbinary specifically till high school, but this nonetheless causes her to associate being “Kawaii-Chan” with the person she pretends to be at school. She wants very badly to be “Kawaii-Chan” but thinks she can’t be, because she isn’t that person she pretends to be, thus causing her to question if she’s even genuine about being trans or if she’s just confused and desperate to be different. She begins figuring herself more after high school, and, with a little help from friends, cements herself as Kawaii-Chan, even if she isn’t always her cheery persona. Her arc in general resolves late mystreet “season 2”, after which she doesn’t really drop pink in her looks, because she really does love the color but she also starts wearing other colors as well.

- Some lil mystreet hcs too because I don’t have full plots completely figured out yet compared to MCD so ya

She and Laurance bring Emmalyn dress shopping after she mentions wanting to but being nervous to go alone after Emmalyn comes out as trans.

Katelyn, Aphmau and KC binge various tv shows together, usually on the one couch in a cuddle pile with blankets and such. If any of them watches ahead or spoils something they get cast out to the other couch for the night.

She’ll bake for any party she is invited to, she won’t even be asked she’ll just show up with food

She a very intricate, big cherry tree back piece tattooed

She has long hair up until about half way through mys “season 1” where she cuts her hair to about her shoulders.

[dangermousie]

That little grin on Choi Young’s face at Eun Soo mouthing off to the bad guy! He is definitely emotionally alive again. Also totally falling hard. This whole sequence! The way he drinks the wine before she does, to test for poison (and her face and his reply that she is a doctor so she can cure him if he got poisoned) and the way the modern Eun Soo reacts to all the wuxia insanity before her, the way he tries to stop her drinking, and just the chemistry and sync and everything. 

They are about to embark on one of the most heartbreaking arcs in the drama (what’s a sageuk without a little child murder) but this is hilarious.

The way she teases him about his love confession and he tries to explain but cannot, and is all bashful. And the way she playfully punches him and he touches the spot! And the way he grabs her to tell her not to sneak up on someone carrying a sword, and the way she is gleeing he's younger than her, and the way he growls at his flunkie why he had to bring her out of all the doctors in heaven. The thing is, around her, he actually lives and doesn't just exist. I am a sucker for badasses flustered by their ladies.

My mind is in the gutter...

The horse-riding scene! I love how quietly amused he is. I also love when he puts her on a horse and his hand is under her feet. Oh, and she asked him to take her to the portal and he didn't grab her or anything - he actually told her she needs to learn how to ride whether she goes to heal the kid or run away from him to a portal. He is so human with her.

And then she has to go to sleep right next to him for protection. Of course. I love their little conversation (he doesn't even know her full name until this moment) and the look on his face when she blabs that of course he won't be married as to who wants to marry a man who kills someone every day. 

I am melting along with Choi Young.

Oh look, it’s an adorable kid in a sageuk. We all know how that ends.

Guuuuuuh.

Though it kills me how CY's smile falters when he sees the bare surroundings the former king lives in.

They are so good with this very ill yet loving child. But also, to treat this kid, they need to be in a modern hospital or, at least, the royal hospital, and for the kid to step foot outside or helping the kid to do so is treason. I love how CY distracts the boy with tales of the heavens - he has so much capacity for love, however he tries to drown it. 

And he goes to leave to get permission to bring the kid in while she stays to take care of the kid. I love the two of them, working like a team, so compatible in crisis and in little things.

Only to discover that the bad guys tracked them down. He goes back in to rescue ES and the boy (I love it when he tells her to stay close to him so he can protect her and the way he cuts through the baddies like a machine) but it turns out they were framed as if they are involved in rebellion and taking the old king out (bad guys' flunkies kill the guards for them, now). KC is leaving Choi Young no choice now but to join his side because his plan to make Gongmin believe CY is an oiled machine. But he doesn’t get CY at all because CY would never join someone who harmed a child.

I mentioned it before, but I love his fighting style because it’s so reliant on speed and really looks like the style of someone who is both better than everyone else and knows it so doesn’t need to show it but just wants to be done with the necessary unpleasant business as soon as possible. He is a killer, not a show-off.

[faunusrights]

OFFAL HUNT REMASTERED LIVEBLOG // CHAPTER 14

IN THIS EPISODE OF THE OFFAL HUNT LIVEBLOG:

On the other end of the line, Cinder let out a tight sigh. “Yeah. Okay, well—I’m in a difficult position right now. I’m balancing a lot. So, that wasn’t, you know, directed at you or whatever… I’m just trying to deliver you to Atlas. That’s all.”

“Yeah,” Glynda said. “This apology sucks.”

CINDER FALL TRIES TO HAVE MANNERS. AND FAILS. BUT SHE TRIES.

it’s been a WHILE but i’m STILL HERE!!!!!!!!! also i’m a little late to the draw and also unlike w/ prior chaps i did actually read this one when it came out so i’ve had my first run already. BUT that means i actually get 2 Focus so lets get this party started

so we’re now entering into the New Umbraroot Arc which Frightens me on a deep and intrinsic scale because now i have no padding to ready me for whatever the Hell is going to occur, but i do know it will be gay(er) than the current content was (is/shall be) and here’s the proof

It had only been a day, but the sound of Cinder’s voice was a relief to Glynda’s senses.

glynda that’s gay. hey. hey. glynda have u been told yr a lesbian. lesbeeb. besbion--

“Not at all.” Thank god. It was one thing to be traveling with Cinder Fall. It was entirely another to have her checking in on Glynda’s well-being.

cinder: my well-being is SHIT but thankfully there’s someone nearby doing WORSE than me, which makes me feel better at least,

“Oh.” Our sounded strange in her mouth.

my favourite thing abt any gay media and content is that it’s gay in ways that hettie(tm) nonsense can only dream of being. when a story is abt a guy and a gal all the romantic tension comes from like. looking at a tiddy or getting naked or w/e the shit. here? it’s literally found entirely in the use of the word our. such power. i love it.

I went from unknown to one of Atlas’ most wanted overnight, which is charming… And also annoying, because they refuse to stop pasting wanted posters on every street corner.

i feel like cinder is the type of bitch to send pics of them back to emerald like ‘is my face ACTUALLY that janky??? my hair is a state. you think they’ll use a selfie if i ask nicely???’

Cinder hummed, affirmative. “Which would be unnecessary, if you hadn’t reported me.”

Glynda returned, “I wouldn’t have reported you if you hadn’t been committing a crime.”

glynda you snitch. you narc. you bootlicker. does be gay do crime mean NOTHING to you,

We left a funny taste in her mouth, almost as strange as when Cinder had said our. She tried not to examine it too closely.

again. look at this shit. this is real slowburn hours. this is how u DO IT.

Her heart was beginning to feel like a pin cushion with all the needles pulled out, little holes left in their wake.

would i be showing my age if i glanced at this and wondered if it were a reference to the inciting og offal hunt inspiration fic or. it does doesnt it. okay moving on.

“Okay.” And then, in an effort to change the subject to something lighter: “I’ve never broken into a country before.”

glynda’s complete and continuous inability to actually like. do what she plans on doing is SO funny to me. she’s going to be stealthy, she says, throwing a man aside in obvious fashion. i’m going to be subtle, she says, being as conspicuous as possible. she’s a disaster and i live for it.

"The Faunus." Cinder's voice was cold. "Don't speak to her."

this part of this fic is subtitled ‘cinder’s rank opinions time’, apparently. not that u can tell. but it is. dsfhgjsdfghjghfjdk

In the silence that followed, Glynda thought of the stunted horns jutting above Cinder's hairline at the restaurant.

Glynda murmured, "That’s a horrible thing to say."

"Don’t start." There was no concession in her words. ���I mean it.”

“...I just didn’t expect that from you.”

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

There was something in Cinder’s tone that told Glynda that nothing she said would be correct. She said nothing.

cinder’s! rank! opinions! time! honestly this section victimises me the MOST as i very famously cried over an earlier section in which cinder thought abt all the faunus she grew up with, so i know that kc and diesel were looking to hurt me directly. that said i DO find it funny that cinder, yet again, looks like a pile of shit.  she can’t do anything right. naturally inclined to be the villain completely unintentionally. what a moron.

A harsh laugh. “What do you think we are, friends?”

“Well, no—um. Not really, but—”

YOU SEE. CINDER. PLEASE. £10 FOR U TO BEHAVE FOR FIFTEEN SECONDS.

“Then, just—just listen to me. I’m going to get us there. I p-promise.” There was a soft sound, like disgust or the prelude to a gag. “Urgh, your soul—give me more space.”

cinder: i’m inclined to being an asshole glynda: every time yr mean 2 me i’ll make u feel worse cinder: ah no. ah shit. i have to be nice??? ah fuck. what the shit is this.

Glynda thought of Ozpin. It wasn’t a comforting thought—more like the memory of a near-accident, like sliding on ice and feeling the world shift beneath you. It was a flinch-thought, and it would have made her miserable instead of just homesick had she not shut it out so quickly.

god the writing in this fic is so especially pristine. everything feels so real and visceral and you just know Exactly how that feels. it’s brilliantly punchy and i adore the way u get have the exact sensation click into place. it’s SO good.

She wondered if it was the same moon Bacia and Vivienne had looked upon. If they had felt the same beneath its pale light. The Great War had seen two shatterings of the moon, so perhaps it had appeared different, but… Glynda couldn’t help but wish that it was something they shared, even lifetimes apart.

👈😎👈

actually im a little nervous abt doing fingerguns because WHAT IF SMTHNG HAS CHANGED... but i think this bit is. safe. maybe. diesel. kc. am i safe,

Glynda closed her eyes and tried to feel out that instinctual power within her. Tried to know herself better. It resonated around her like a water in a tank, nearly palpable.

again this is just GREAT storytelling. i just LOVE how well kc and diesel turn abstract ideas into such physical manifestations it’s completely unreal. r y’all seein this shit???

upon checking his number, she’d discovered it had been blocked.

i love that glynda is abt as knowledgeable abt little jumps like this as the reader is. are we surprised as a reader? yes. is glynda also surprised? HELL YEAH SHE IS. SHE AIN’T GOT A FUCKIN CLUE MY DUDE.

Remembering the notes to herself not to trust Winter, Glynda opened the log hesitantly.

glynda no yr sending read receipts to yr future gf and thats a bad move on everybodys part

The indicator showed this wasn’t the first time Glynda had accessed the message. She couldn’t remember doing so. 

OH NO BITCH U ALREADY DID

“Special Operative Schnee, things are…” Glynda paused, searching for something suitably vague to say. “Proceeding.

do you see what i mean abt glynda’s ineptitude. it’s slapstick levels of ridiculous and i’m living for it.

Do you suspect she’s attempting to cross the border?”

“Maybe.”

‘sure,’ glynda says. ‘you could word it like that if you wanted to.’

“Bold of her, if nothing else. She should know there will—” Glynda skimmed through the rest of the paragraph to reach the end, the corners of her mouth curling. “—can make arrangements. Let me know if there’s anything else you need.”

HGSDFGKHJSFDGHKJDF JESUS CHRIST

its like in fallout 4 when someone tells u important info and when u click past it the main character just goes ‘uh huh’ ‘yeah’ ‘okay’ ‘sure’ ‘mm-hm’ as the text boxes whizz by GLYNDA PLEASE

Bubbles appeared, showing that Cinder was typing. Glynda waited.

And waited.

And waited.

The bubbles appeared and disappeared four times.

She flipped back to Cinder’s conversation and found that, after all that time, Cinder had finally settled on a reply.

It said:

“Good.”

i just had to pair these up for a second if only to say: dis me lol

okay let’s double back for a second just to cover this Juicy Lore:

If you’d like, I can arrange a bouquet of flowers to be left at your mothers’ memorial site. My thoughts are with you.”

For a long moment, Glynda simply stared at the screen. [...] In quick succession, she realized that it had been sixteen days since she’d met with Cinder in the restaurant and that it was soon to be the anniversary of her mothers’ deaths.

WHAT IS THIS LORE MA’AM AND MX??? **MA’X**??? firstly idk what the HELL the Black March tragedy is but im fascinated but also: did u have to do that. can ONE person in this fic not have [spoilers redacted cant say that yet no sir] problems??? no??? die. dsfhjgghjkfsddf

Glynda picked herself up from the armchair, neat and tidy, and disassembled into bed, pulling the covers up to her throat. With her Semblance, she turned off the lights. She closed her eyes.

It was quiet. Cold. The only thing she felt was the weight of her soul.

Her Scroll buzzed. Glynda answered it.

“Glynda.” It was Cinder. “I can feel that.”

okay following on from cinder’s text message, i just. love that cinder’s having such direct repercussions to her shitty shitty actions. like this is all tying together in some 👈😎👈 instances but having cinder be her usual callous self and having to literally turn around and start fucking Being Nice For Once is VERY gratifying. fuck you you lil round-faced one-braincelled baby. time to learn to have some Manners. jgdsfghsdfghfjd

She’d simply resigned to the loneliness of having no one to trust but Cinder, and then, not even having her.

... thats gay. hey lads is that gay? its gay. it feels gay.

On the other end of the line, Cinder let out a tight sigh. “Yeah. Okay, well—I’m in a difficult position right now. I’m balancing a lot. So, that wasn’t, you know, directed at you or whatever… I’m just trying to deliver you to Atlas. That’s all.”

“Yeah,” Glynda said. “This apology sucks.”

this feels like a reference to 👈👈👈😎👈👈👈 (IS IT. AM I RIGHT. IT IS ISNT IT) but also: LOOK AT CINDER GO. TRYING. BADLY. BUT TRYING. i love her she sucks so much shes such a dumbass. feel the consequences. feel them.

Glynda chided herself; Cinder Fall wasn’t capable of remorse, but she was more than capable of simple math. It seemed the worse she treated Glynda, the worse she herself would feel.

glynda: she’s doing this because it makes her feel better, not me cinder in like idk 20 chapters down the line:

(i guess thats another 👈😎👈 moment but for GOOD REASON)

There was a shift, like Cinder was rolling over, or maybe propping herself up. Was she in bed also? It triggered the remembrance of Glynda’s own physicality, and she turned over as well, searching in the dark for the nightstand and the lamp upon it. The light clicked on. The room brightened. Glynda settled in, ready.

OOOOOH THE PARALLELS. glynda turning the lights off and sinking into darkness and the void versus perking up and sitting up and turning the lights on when talking to cinder!!!!!!! POETIC CINEMA. OOF. OOF. HOW DOES FIFTEEN POINTS OF LOVE TASTE.

“Great! Lovely. Glad to hear it.” Fangs rounded out the words like scissors. A pleasant sense of satisfaction unfurled in Glynda’s chest. “So, once upon a fucking time—”

there were two gays and they were enemies to lovers but didnt know it yet. but they will be.

THATS CHAPTER 14 BABEY!!!!!!!! i LOVED this chap and i can rly feel kc and diesel gearing up for umbraroot. its great being able to like. feel the shift of focus goin on here and im SO ready to see this arc play out. once again offal hunt is the best fic ever made. this is a fact.

[socksandbuttons]

Swap AU Stuff

Alright let's jsut try getting down basics maybe

Also this maybe long actually.

The obvious Swaps Lunar and Eclipse: Basically how we meet them in episode. I legit went along with thinking this Eclipse wasn't memory wiped the whole time so thats kinda- in the air a bit. But Lunar being the original body (I have a post showing how Eclipse looked then), Eclipse with the one he made (to be taller. He can't stand being small... Well shorter than anyone really. A shame he has Bloodmoon towering over him.) The Glamrocks: They are as Swapped so Chica is Freddy, Freddy is Roxy, Roxy is Monty and Monty is Chica (I love them immediately after giving them luscious hair im sorry). Rox and Sun are friends and he's quite protective of Sun, also a cowboy cause swap au/Foxy etc. Digi in the discord came up with this and i died cause it was so good actually. Eclipse and Lunar still go thru the whole October Arc with Moon and Sun. Moon being far more quiet but aggressive. Made Sun to hinder Eclipse. Let me paste my lil paragraph i had in discord

"Sun likely has more denial about moons treatment of him, however like lunar he does start questioning if its good for moon to get the star (like sort of getting the Moon Wont Stop so i need to do something he might hurt himself etc) plus lunar and eclipses treatment of sun would be a huge factor too, eclipse obviously is terrible at communcating and while he's a bit of a jerk, realizing sun might be in danger or hurt is something he might catch on faster. maybe. im thinking anyway sun catches attachment to both that outweighs his denial of moon being terrible actually. he's still grasping at things even well after. doesnt realize he gets awful panic attacks until someone points it out actually. and then i lost my train of thought but moon still loved sun just…. very clearly was not the forefront of his goals tho. feels very betrayed by sun after and likely wont fogrive sun. vs sun whos too willing to forgive despite his anxiety screaming at him NOT TO. i just wanna show a different thing to this cause lunar recognized halfway into october and let moon handle the rest and recognizes that eclipse was hurting him much sooner than sun wouldve (see the… current sun. og sun recognizes now but it truly took him a WHILE, communication Real now.)" Anyway, Sun does end up getting adopted by both Eclipse and Lunar. He's never gonna be taller than Eclipse. But as mentioned he's got a lot of things to work through about Moon (Roxy will kick so much ass for him.) Generally trying to grasp that yeah no it was pretty fucked up of Moon to do anything to Sun. Now the timeline gets a lil weird beyond this because like KC would've also been in this plot. KC unlike our Bloodmoon, is actually far smarter (Im sorry to bm fans), he DOES work with Sun but generally more for his benefit of getting rid of Moon. He doesn't really need to be bribed for this actually. Imagine KC being so pissed about Moon showing up in his systems and hes LIKE WTF MAN. Zappity Zap Zap Double Dee Moon Anyway Cue Bloodmoon arriving. And like bloodmoon does- He does technically hold Eclipse hostage but gets bored. So there is mild agreement. Bloodmoon does what KC did and FORCED themself out (like our OG boy!). They're uh... theyre not very keen on sticking around a daycare as fun as itd be to tear it up. They like lightly bully Sun but Roxy to the rescueee. Anyway, 'Does KC die in this au?' No he doesnt. He gets CLOSE to it but Bloodmoon just goes 'Hmn. nah son you're coming with me'. Lunar still feels incredibly bad about it though. Space arriving sooner actually more or less helps like avoid some certain issues here and there. Unlike Earth where she arrives much later (due to be literally distracted.) Space goes directly to the daycare. Thus kinda- changing some bits. He does meet Bloodmoon, hates him though. 'Why aren't you thinking this through' 'We wanna see how much they scream' 'You'll be electrocuting yourself before you get the chance' '...That means Eclipse gets electrocuted?' 'Put down. the fork.' KC handles Bloodmoon with much exasperation. Bloodmoon picked up this sucker and went 'our Spawn'. Baffles KC. Space ends up meeting Crater, Moon got annoyed with Space's presence being literally really hard to work around. Sends Crater, Crater and Space get along well enough that it wasn't Moon intention but this works too. Space (theres irony here) gets concerned with Crater and her not viewing herself with autonomy. She is still just a 'basic AI' as she puts it. Does what she's told. Bloodmoon doesn't really use her just kinda shoo's her off to Space or Eclipse. 'No you're no fun-' 'I have told to monitor you' 'WE DIDNT ASK MOON FOR A BABYSITTER' 'I am programmed to defend' 'We dont need defending either' 'You are still vunerable' '...Go away' 'Affirmative. Destination please?' 'DAYCARE'

Anyway How do i sum this up. Roxy and Sun are besties Lunar and Sun vibe. Eclipse is soft with Sun.

Bloodmoon has claimed ONE child. Doesn't really claim Moon but thats a later thing. Moon and KC despise one another.

KC didn't really want this fatherly figure but he begrudgingly accept them. Funny things happen with these three. Bloodmoon doesn't become pacifist, just more or less moves away dragging KC with them. A little bitter at Lunar's murder attempt but its fine. No one died there but heavily maimed.

Eclipse and Moon still ultimately hate one another. There is a Swap version of Solar thats Moon and- we'll get confused so just know its out there. Space and Crater are good friends and partly why both end up questioning their existence but both support pillars to one another that it just kinda isn't as devastating. Unless someone dies. Crater does end up having her own personhood, Moon does get attached to her even if he doesnt admit it. Space doesn't question creator enough but Crater does and vice versa. Bloodmoon(s) does have a name but ill reveal that later??? idk

[dragonofyang]

ABTV Feb 25 Transcript

A complete transcript of the ABTV Voltron interview with Joaquim Dos Santos and Lauren Montgomery on February 25 2019 is under the cut.

@crystal-rebellion @voltronisruiningmylife @felixazrael @leakinghate

KC: The series is over, but we’re not quite done. We are the Afterbuzz TV Voltron: Legendary Defender after-show and we’re here to talk to you guys about season 8 as a whole. We’re gonna talk about character arcs. We’re gonna talk about the end of reality. We’re going to talk about some of our favorite moments, and we’re gonna talk about them with two very special guests. So let’s get this ball rolling and team, it’s time to form Voltron!

KC: Hello, everyone! Welcome back. We are the Afterbuzz TV Voltron: Legendary Defender after-show. This is the season 8 review. We are gonna talk about season 8 as a whole. We are going to have a grand old time doing it. I have with me a green lion, Megan Salinas.

MS: Hey, everybody!

KC: I’m black lion, Katie Cullen, and we have two wonderful, fantastic, returning guests that we are so thrilled to have in studio. Our showrunners: Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim dos Santos.

JDS: How’s it going?

MS: [cheers off-screen]

JDS: It’s nice to see you guys.

LM: Yeah, thanks for having us. We’re happy to be back and talking about the final season.

JDS: Yeah, and we have to sort of give a pre-warning that we haven’t really watched it in a while, so we aren’t really sure what season 8 is anymore.

LM: Yeah, I did, I refreshed myself on the, uh, episode thumbnails on Netflix, so at least I have like, a slight reminder.

JDS: Yeah and they spoil everything for you.

KC: No, just me.

[laughter]

KC: Things I will never be over: when Netflix marketing screws up that bad. Well, welcome back. Before we get started we are gonna do a little bit of housekeeping. As always, we have the livechat going for those of you who are watching live on YouTube. We have the hashtag for those of you who are watching live or listening later. That hashtag is #ABTVVoltron. If you’ve got something to say, throw it in the hashtag, throw it in the live chat, you may well get a shoutout. I will say that we do check the hashtag throughout the week, and it lasts longer than the livechat does, so art, links, fun stuff, throw it in there if you want it to be a little more permanent. And as always, we have our tavern of lions house rule: be nice or get out. We--[laser sound effect]--there we go. Yeah. Everyone has opinions. I firmly believe you can express your opinions in a respectful manner and if you find yourself unable to do that, you will be banned from the channel. No more Afterbuzz animation for you. Buh-bye. Most of you have been pretty dang good at that, which I appreciate. Keep it up and we’ll continue. Season 8, though, you guys.

MS: Oh my goodness.

KC: The series finale. What was releasing this last season like for you?

LM: It was…

JDS: Exhausting.

LM: Yeah. Releasing it was really easy because we were, like, out of, you know--

MS: It’s done!

LM: --out of work for, like, a month and we were like, [noncommittal noises]. We were relaxing, we were kind of like--things were nice and slow. Making it was a whole different scenario. This was where we really procrastinated a lot on a few things, like, we thought we had this beautiful idea that we’d have all this time at the end where there’s no new episodes coming up that we’d have to make and like, we’ll have all this time to, like, reboard all these things that needed to be reboarded and focus all this attention. And we had none of that time, and I don’t even know how that happened. I think what we forgot to realize was doing our regular producer duties takes the whole day, and the end of the day was when we did all of our storyboard stuff.

JDS: I think, I don’t know how the math worked in our head, but I think we assumed that, like, as soon as season 7 was done, we reverted back to being, like, storyboard artists or something, and then we’d just be like, “yeah, we’ll just, like, draw and stuff again.”

LM: Yeah, we’ll have all this time to just, like, make the finale the best it can be. Like, I remember us talking with Eugene, like, “Oh my god, Jean. Eugene, when we’re done with, like, this last batch of episodes can you imagine how much time.” And he’s like, “Yeah, it’s gonna be so great!” And then, like, there was none of that because we were still making the frickin’ show and finishing, like, episodes just in editing and in post.

JDS: Balancing act was still happening, you know, like three spinning plates at a time.

LM: One day, I’m gonna figure it out.

KC: Sending it in at 11:59 before it’s due.

JDS: We’re gonna be, like, 80-year-olds like, “We figured it out!” And they’re gonna be like, “What’s this crazy old person doing here trying to make a cartoon?”

KC: That’s what we’re all trying to do collectively. We’re making a cartoon.

JDS: That’s right.

KC: So you had a lot of story threads to bring together and resolve as well as a lot of new information to give us. Was there… was there anything that got lost in the shuffle? Was there anything you would have liked to emphasize a little more that there just wasn’t time for it?

JDS: A lot, I mean yeah. It-it’s tough. We had this massive Honerva backstory to sort of really set up and queue up, and-and we were able to do that a little bit, sort of, leading up, but season 8 was really our big push to-to get that all set up. I think, you know, that came at the cost of, like, I would have loved to have spent more time with the MFE pilots and sort of figure out what made them tick. And we got a little bit of that with, you know, like, “Day 47”, but…

LM: Yeah.

JDS: I don’t know. There was stuff like that, like incidental side characters that we just were-we were super fond of.

LM: Yeah, it’s one of those really tricky things about having a show this big. As you introduce all these characters, and we had all these great ideas of, like, they’re all gonna come into play in these many different ways. And-and so you would be, kind of, in the writers’ room with the writers, like, talking about all these things. And then slowly but surely as we needed to just kind of whittle it down and make it understandable and get the strongest points across, like, these little things would fall away and so suddenly you’d lose that-that kind of side character involvement. Like, we had this idea of, like, Slav was gonna kind of be, like, with them and figuring out all of these, like, crazy interreality traveling stuff and like he would know all the realities, he would know exactly where to go, he’ll be in the cockpit with them--

JDS: Right, right, right.

LM: --it’s gonna be crazy. And then we were like, “Oh, no. We need to just, like--do we really need Slav in the finale? Like--

KC: Yes you do.

LM: --with all the paladins? Like, we love him, but that might be a little awkward. So, uh, yeah. And honestly, just, like, the finale itself, just that last episode, like, we’ve always…

JDS: Yeah.

LM: With every finale we’ve done, um, in-in our three, like, big seasons, we--you know, Zarkon we consider to be one season, Lotor is the second season, and then this big, like, Sendak Earth/Honerva arc--each of those had a big finale and every time we would write that big finale and we would run out of time. Like, we would overwrite it and I would always try to say, like, “Guys, we need, like, at least an act of wrap-up.” And then for the big series finale, like, it would have been awesome to have an entire episode where we could just dedicate to, like, tying up loose ends, but you can’t do that. We-we wrote an episode and then we got notes like, “Hey, there’s only action in act 1, can we have action in act 2 and 3?” And we’re like, “No! No we can’t!” Like, like, we gotta wrap up 78 episodes! This isn’t just a, uh, a 26 episode wrap-up. This is a 78 episode wrap-up.

JDS: But when you-when you look at that final episode, it really is just the first act of, like, fight stuff and the rest is pretty much wrap-up. Uh, I mean, we were just saying to each other, we wished that the conversation in limbo almost could have had its own episode. How awesome would that have been to really, like, explore, deep-dive into Honerva’s POV and make that transition when she, you know, sort of decides to go along with Allura. Sell that. Uh, but, you sort of deal--

LM: It was--there’s a ton of stuff that just hit the-hit the, kinda, cutting room floor, storyboard-wise, just because we didn’t have the time and so we’re looking like, it’s a kids’ show technically still, even though we’re trying to make it more than that. You have a-a scene that’s basically an act long that’s just in a white floaty space with people talking about, like, you know--

JDS: Bigger emotional stuff

LM: Yeah. And, uh, you know, letting that go any longer than that is just like, “You can’t do it!”

KC: Yeah.

LM: “Kids are sleeping right now!”

JDS: No it’s, what’s interesting, though, is that it seems like we’re in a--I don’t know--sort of social situation now where those types of shows are becoming more and more of a reality. And we were on this, like, weird precipice where we were always working on shows that were pushing the boundaries, and maybe Voltron was on the tipping point. It seems like now animation is way--it’s broadening, like, every day, so hopefully we’ll be able to see more shows that can, like, lean in and get really, really character-centric and still have all the sci-fi, like, big action stuff to go along with it. Um,

LM: I was telling Joaquim how, you know, we were just talking about how during our time on Voltron we-we started in a very specific point in the industry where we were very used to working inside of our boys toys animation box and trying to push the boundaries. And those were literally the only jobs that were available to us because those were the only shows that studios had in animation and during our time on Voltron, like Castlevania came out and changed the landscape and now suddenly there’s all these studios. Netflix opened its own studio here. We were making a show through DreamWorks for Netflix and now, you know, we could have just gone straight to Netflix and made a show that was more geared towards, like, young adults and-and more, but that wasn’t available to us when we started.

JDS: We were, like, trying to, like, like, sneak it in the back door like “this is secretly a much deeper show, everybody.”

LM: But it’s exciting that--because that’s--it’s a reality that we didn’t know if it would ever be a thing because we were working on Korra and we would say to ourselves, like, “This is the last time we’re ever gonna get this chance, you guys.” Like, Korra is, like, a crazy creature where Nickelodeon knows they’re not making it for kids, it has no toy tie-in, has no consumer products tie-in, it’s just meant to be kind of an art project at the studio. And so it was allowed to be this very mature, different show for an audience that they didn’t really understand. And-and so when it was over we were like, “Alright, well, back to the old way.” Uh, you know, we were prepared for it and we, you know, we definitely had more of, like, a fun campy vibe to Voltron, but we still wanted to try to push those bigger themes--

JDS: I think we maximized as much of the, like, sort of pathos and-and sort of hero’s journey and sort of deep character introspective stuff as we could.

KC: Yeah.

JDS: But, you know, it’s-it’s funny too because it just seems, maybe even to ourselves, but it seemed like the lines got blurred even in how it was, uh, uh, received by the fandom and received by, even like, the media outlets. It was-it was sort of, like, on the cusp of being talked about, you know, with other shows that were way more mature like, “Oh, the Game of Thrones of it all” and it’s like “[hesitant honking noise].”

[laughter]

KC: “We didn’t kill that many pe--oh we did kill that many people. We ended reality!”

MS: [indistinct] way more people than Game of Thrones.

JDS: So we did. We did-we pushed the boundaries.

LM: Yeah, and we would--we’d find ourselves getting compared to shows that we were… like live-action shows where, like, “Oh, they should have done it like this,” and it’s like, “That, that would be awesome if that were an option at all--”

JDS: Right, right, right.

LM: “--in any way.” But, uh, us-us to consider our, like, little robot lion show being made, us trying to make this show for as many people as possible under the guidelines of a “boys toys” show, it’s never gonna be able to have, like, quite the ability to push farther that, like, a live-action, like Walking Dead on AMC that’s at 10 o’clock at night specifically for adults where you don’t have to worry about “how are my kids gonna do with this?”

KC: If your kids are watching Walking Dead, you have other problems.

MS: Either that or you’re the best parent in the world.

KC: Uh, disagree.

MS: Agree to disagree!

KC: Disagree!

MS: But was it that sort of desire to push the boundaries that, sort of, resulted in this climax where, “Yeah, we have the big action set piece leading up to it,” but ultimately the resolution is one that’s brought up from empathy and understanding.

JDS: I think so. And I think--I will say DreamWorks was incredibly patient with us with regards to us broaching a lot of these subjects. They were, you know, maybe still figuring things out in terms of how they would approach, you know, other topics that we can-we can get into a little later. But I would say the finale is almost--I don’t know, I don’t want to say unlike anything you would see in other like-minded shows, like, let’s say Transformers or Power Rangers or something that, like, Voltron was by outward appearances being compared to--but it was something, I think, really exciting for us to be able to explore because we did create villains and create heroes that worked within this very, kind of like, shades of gray spectrum. There was-there was-there was black, there was white, but we played in this really weird, morally-ambiguous zone a lot of the time and that was, I think it’s important for, kind of, audiences of every age group to see that.

LM: And, you know, we also came from working on shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender and Korra which very much pushed those boundaries as well, and were extremely groundbreaking for, you know, children’s programming and it was not something that was coming out of western animation. So, uh, I mean we, I would say we learned an insane amount from Mike and Bryan.

JDS: We just had to reverse-engineer that into the goofy cat lady. [Hosts laugh] You know what I mean? That was, like, that was our, like, little-little trick to the industry. It was like, “How do we do all that cool stuff that-that we were able to do in those shows and sort of cram it into this package?”

LM: Yeah, and honestly, like, a lot of it was just us knowing that our ability to, like, show everything on-screen, like, every type of representation we might have wanted to show. We might not get our way on everything, but at least through having these larger lessons we can-we can still push those messages of acceptance and of understanding and of, like, looking beyond. And you know, those are just important messages. I think, like, everyone kind of learns them in their life in their own way and, uh, I don’t know, like, I was such a little, like, asshole kid [Hosts laugh] that, like, I, like, didn’t understand empathy. I didn’t understand why people cried when they were happy, I was like, “Why would you cry when you’re happy? Like, you’re happy.” And then, of course, now I’m the woman who watched a T-Mobile commercial today and friggin’ cried, so--

JDS: I want to know what this commercial was.

LM: It was beautiful. I’ll describe it to you after because I don’t want to take time.

[Laughter]

LM: But uh--

KC: Advertising other brands, uh, [concerned noise].

LM: But uh, you know, there-there are things that come through, I think, life experience and through learning and our paladins had that, kind of, on steroids with their whole Voltron journey, so you know, to really show how that manifested and how they learn from it was… it’s important, and it-I think it’s just important for kids to see it, even if they’re not there in their life yet, to know when they get there they look back and, like, “Oh, I-I saw that, like--”

JDS: “I saw that happening to that character.”

KC: To be able to see it happen to someone else and someone that you’re invested in because, “Oh, it’s Lance! He’s my favorite!” and then you watch him grow from this brat to the right arm of Voltron. Yeah, actually I think this is a good point to start talking about character arcs in this season.

MS: I think so! Yeah!

KC: Let’s talk about Honerva. Let’s talk about this horrorterror! She’s-she is amazing and horrifying and not the villain I expected to make it to the very end. Here we are, I’m impressed.

JDS: Let me ask you, though, were you at all sympathetic to her and her, sort of, cause [indistinct]?

MS: 100%. Um, it-it’s so--she was one of the most fascinating characters to watch because once she gets her memory back and she realized--you know, contextually-speaking we as the audience find out who she is at the same time she does--uh, you, you slowly start to realize how much of this entire scenario she’s responsible for whether inadvertently or not. And so it’s so fascinating watch her refusal to take responsibility for her part in it but still desperately wanting that sym--you know, the human connections that she was denied. You know, human, so to speak.

JDS: Sure.

MS: Altean!

JDS: Altean.

KC: It’s telling that the perfect world that she found to slot herself into is the dimension where she died. [MS makes an agonized noise] Where-where this whole--

JDS: She was taken out of the equation?

KC: Yeah, it’s possible that it’s a dimension where the comet never happened because Voltron was obviously a surprise. The alliances were still there but the giant robots were, “You’ve brought this monster down upon us, what are you?”

JDS: Right.

KC:  So it’s-it’s telling that that’s the perfect dimension that she found is the one where she died super early on.

MS: And correct me if I’m wrong, but her--to obtain the perfect world--she was also basically willing to kill infinite versions of her son and her husband in order to get what she deemed she was worthy of.

JDS: Well, I--that’s, and that’s sort of like the misdirected love, right? Like, she was in one hand looking for the acceptance and the love of family that she never had, but she was blind to everything else, all the other chaos that she was causing as a result. That to me is-is interesting. I feel, you know--

LM: Yeah. It’s an interesting character. It’s not necessarily, like, the most honorable by any means, but you know, characters, when you can understand why they want it but then you see them doing things that are absolutely unacceptable to get it, it’s like you know it’s wrong but you know, you can-can kind of understand--

JDS: We’re hearing crackle in our ears, everybody. [Hosts laugh] That might be me, I’m just gonna go ahead and put it on the floor.

MS: It’s probably mine.

KC: It’s--your phone case doesn’t like the table. It-it’s, no seriously, it’s super weird and I’m pretty sure it’s your phone case. Sorry, I was trying to do that silently so I didn’t interrupt you.

JDS: I was going to call attention to it, please carry on, sorry.

LM: Oh no, we were talking about Honerva, or something.

KC: Great podcasting.

LM: Yeah, there-there’s something really incredible, like, interesting to me about her, kind of victim mentality where she-she really won’t accept that, like, a lot of this is her fault. She just looks at, basically, like, she’s lost her whole life. She’s witnessed it not knowing that it was hers, realizing looking back on all the things she should have done differently, that she could have done differently and it’s kind of, you know, she’s kind of trying to point that blame. I was like, “Well, if I--the quintessence hadn’t, uh-duh-duh,” you know, she-she’ll turn it on everyone except her, even though she was right there, you know, kind of diving into this whole quintessence research and bringing this whole thing about.

KC: “It’s Voltron’s fault.”

[MS laughs]

JDS: But it was also cool, I think, you know, one of the things that I was really surprised of in the room--I don’t really remember how it came up--was the notion that when she shows up in this reality and then Voltron follows, they’re like, “Why have you brought this, like, demon monster to our world?” It’s a-it’s-it’s a-it’s a crazy, sort of, flip of the script where really, you know, Voltron was doing good, but in a lot of people’s eyes and it’s, you know, in a certain people’s eyes, it could be seen as--

LM: I mean, you wouldn’t know. You wouldn’t know any better.

JDS: --bringing chaos.

MS: Voltron was the robeast in that scenario.

JDS: That’s right!

MS: You know, it’s like, “Look at this giant monstrosity that’s gonna wreak havoc on our planet.”

KC: Because Honerva parked hers out back.

LM: She was smart enough to store it off-planet, wink wink.

JDS: And we were talking a little bit before this about, you know, how there’s this portion of the fandom that’s like, “How could you, like, justice for Lotor!” and-and where, you know, “where is his redemption” and “how could you kill him off?” and obviously, you know, we feel we’re coming from a point of, you know, he’s gone so far off the deep end that-that death was really the only, sort of, salvation that he had on some level. But it’s interesting that it was-it was Lotor in that reality, there was a version of Lotor that was, you know, unaffected and uncorrupted, and-and you know, doesn’t come from that-that kind of horrific background that our Lotor did that, uh, was in essence, kind of kicked off everything being turned on Honerva’s plans.

KC: Yeah.

MS: It really does highlight how a person’s, like, the circumstances that they find themselves in really do have an effect on the person they become.

JDS: Right.

KC: But it’s also a matter of choice. Like, this up--these awful, awful things happen to him, like there’s no question that Lotor would have turned out better had his parents been physically capable of empathy. They’re kind of zombies, so it’s an issue.

JDS: There’s nature versus nurture.

KC: That’s not the weirdest thing I’ve said today.

JDS: Aww.

KC: That’s not the weirdest thing I’ve said today. Um, but even after all that happened, he made the choice to go, “You know what? Fine! Violence it is!” And lean super hard into that curve, even while he was still going, “Oh no, I don’t want to mess with my Galra heritage. Oh no, I’d rather be an Altean. Oh no, this.” Like…

JDS: Right. And-and that’s--I think that noncleanliness of, like, where he fits in and, like, the villain category, or the hero category, or the character that’s going to be redeemed, or… That is an area that we like to play in and sometimes does not have the answers that everybody’s sort of hoping for, you know.

LM: We’d like to blur those lines, but sometimes, you know, the lines are blurred, therefore the fans have their own interpretations, but ultimately it’s a story, guys. And not everyone gets to have a happy ending in the story.

JDS: I will say he was beautiful.

[laughter]

JDS: He had beautiful hair.

KC: He did!

JDS: And him and Allura together look beautiful together.

MS: Mm-hmm!

KC: This is very true.

LM: Oh, you’re treading into some dangerous territory there, buddy.

JDS: But, you know, I will--that, you know, that isn’t from a story perspective, sort of, place to, uh--

LM: Yeah.

JDS: --to work back from if that makes sense.

KC: Yeah, but, you ever see those beautiful flowers and then you go to smell them and they smell like death itself? That’s kinda that.

JDS: Hell of a point. MS: I still ship it, but no! It does not work within the framework of the narrative in any capacity.

JDS: Sure, sure.

KC: Look, there is a universe in which it happened and it was fine, this is not that universe.

MS: And that’s the--

JDS: And that’s the beauty of more--

MS: Multiverse stories! There’s an AU where it totally worked out and everyone was happy.

LM: Yes, and there’s comics to be written, fanfics, go crazy.

KC: Yeah.

MS: Yeah, well, and ultimately it’s the memory of what he was trying to do that brings Honerva around.

JDS: Exactly. Yeah. And so there was, there was goodness in him, like, you can’t-you can’t deny that. But, um, some actions are, you know, really your only way out.

KC: You kinda gotta--

JDS: From a story perspective is you gotta, you gotta kind of pay that ultimate price.

KC: Well, for Lotor there was some good in him, but uh, cool motive, still murder.

MS: So much murder!

KC: Lots and lots of murder!

JDS: Totally involved a ton of murder.

KC: Yeah, pretty sure all of the battery Alteans are super dead because I don’t think anyone else found that moon.

MS: Yeah!

JDS: Right.

MS: Talk to Bandor if you wanna hear about why Lotor doesn’t get a redemption arc.

[KC makes uncomfortable noises]

MS: I’m sure Romelle would love to hear your thoughts on that.

JDS: By the way, when that episode came out, and when we were getting, like, the recording, we couldn’t stop saying to each other, “Bandor! Bandor!” Like, we loved that read so much, like, and we love that name.

[Hosts laugh]

LM: Bandor.

JDS: Oh, Bandor.

MS: Well there were-there were a lot of fun--talking about that--there were a lot of fun references to the original series in this season. Like at the very beginning we actually have a clip from the original series playing.

KC: We did! “I don’t sound like that!” God bless Bex and their ability to sound like that.

JDS: Yeah.

LM: We, uh, we love the original show and we always had this silly idea because we played with so many different realities that, like, what if in our reality the show it’s, it’s technically live-action to them and it’s being made about them. And so it’s like, because here we are making a show that’s based on that show, and I was like, “Ooh, what if that show was based on our show?”

JDS: It’s super meta, it’s like inverse meta.

LM: It was just funny to us that, like, we could work it in. And we always wanted to work it in in some way just because, you know, we love it and we like to pay homage to it. But that, like, we-we joked about it and we actually had a few more references, like, in the episode. I ended up way super-overwriting that episode, so we cut a bunch of stuff, like, you know like the rookie writer mistake. Um, but, uh--

JDS: It was all gold, it was all gold. It just had to go.

LM: Yes.

[Hosts laugh]

LM: I paid him to say that.

MS: You have to kill your darlings.

KC: Yup.

LM: But, uh, there was a scene where they were gonna see, like, the Sven dies scene. Shiro wasn’t there, though, but like, Eddie was like, “Hunk and Keith were, like, at little viewing party with, like, Hunk’s family.” And uh, and then they see the scene, they’re like, “Wow, they’re really taking some liberties” like--

[laughter]

LM: “--they were making their own story about the paladins.” And it was just--

KC: There wasn’t a space hospital!

JDS: That’s right.

MS: I would have expired. I would not be here right now if that had happened because I would have died laughing.

KC: I would’ve been doing this show on my own this season.

JDS: There-there was a version of it.

LM: It never made it, it never even really made it past, like, the roughs and storyboard, ‘cuz again, like, I so overwrote that episode that we just started hacking stuff out.

JDS: There was also, Tim Hedrick did an amazing Pidge in the room and a lot of, like, us being so obsessed with him was just going like, “Waaaahhhh?” If ever something was, like, confusing he would just go “waaahhhhh”. Bring in more OG Pidge. Bex.

KC: Yeah, Bex’s ability to emulate that voice.

JDS: Oh, she nailed it.

KC: Oh yeah, they are just wonderful.

MS: They’re amazing.

LM: Yeah, we got to do that, we got to have the little nod to, like, Pidge’s outfit and Allura’s outfit that, like, kind of goes by real quick.

MS: Those are so fun.

KC: That was pretty great.

MS: That montage. And then we got Chip at the end, too! And Vehicle Voltron!

LM: I know! Like, we’re the biggest trolls ever, like, “here’s a show we’re never gonna make!”

KC: That and the epilogue about, “They made the next generation of Voltron!” and it’s like, “it’s happening. It’s happening!”

JDS: We queued it up real nicely for whoever wants to do it, by the way.

LM: Yeah, you know, if anyone wants to take that. But, uh, we, you know, I, so, I’m just gonna admit I never watched Vehicle Voltron.

JDS: How dare you.

KC: Same, I had to google what Chip was.

LM: But, uh, you know, like, I did my research. Like, there’s a cool idea to-idea to it there and-and my husband and I were originally recently watching Patlabor--how they call it, that’s what they call it on the thing--Patlabor.

JDS: That’s probably close.

LM: They call Labors. Patlabor was what we always called it, but they’re called Labors and it’s this, like, cop mech show and it’s really clever, like, it’s fun because they have mechs and they’re cops and they just, kind of, episode to episode do cop things. And I was like, “Well, if you’re gonna make a vehicle Voltron, you’ve got these three teams, they could basically be, like, cops in mechs.” And it would be a lot of fun.

MS: You just described my dream show, oh my god.

LM: But, uh, yeah, we queued it up and then-and Chip I just, I loved the idea, like, Pidge’s one goal in life, you know, going out into the world and seeing sentient AI, like to create one of her own and she’s doing it, like, with her brother and it’s this, like, nice bonding moment. And then the fact that Chip was, like, what, Pidge’s cousin or something?

JDS: Yeah, that’s right [indistinct].

MS: I think it was her brother. I believe it was brother in the loosest--it was really just--

JDS: I thought it was just cousin.

MS: It was--it might’ve been cousin.

KC: Well, I mean Sven had “a brother” that they found later on.

MS: It’s a little hard because they started cutting together different series to continue Voltron, so it’s hard to say.

LM: It just made a lot of sense that, you know, she would pursue that and that would be her passion. Technology is her passion. And then you’re with her family and then obviously being such a huge part of the Galaxy Garrison with Voltron, kind of, you know, taking itself out of the equation, they would then--

JDS: Sort of take up the mantle.

LM: Yeah, and then really--

JDS: I do think there’s a pitch, though, where Chip ends up taking over Earth as, like, a sentient AI and becomes the villain a thousand years later.

MS: And it’s the singularity!

LM: Hey man, I was just about to say, like, the dark version is that, like, the Voltron that Sam and-and everyone creates ultimately is, like, you know, the police and then they--yeah--they become the power-hungry, power-hungry Earth.

KC: And there’s a scrappy Galra resistance.

JDS: And they flip the script and become the good guys.

LM: There you go.

KC: Living long enough to see yourself become the villain.

MS: Oh my gosh, I love it.

KC: I don’t have time to get into how much I love this AU because we are gonna run out of time here in a hot second. I--there’s so much I want to talk about and I’m having such a hard time deciding things.

MS: Let’s talk about Allura.

KC: Oh, Allura. She had such a rough season. Incredibly well-telegraphed, very rough.

LM: For sure, I think, you know, we-we knew, like, coming down to it that with Honerva being the final villain, and basically we have two female Altean people who have had a very similar thing happen to them. They’ve lost their families, they’ve lost, like, the life they knew, and it’s just two very different ways of how they handled it.

JDS: That’s right. They’ve had very, in a weird way, similar circumstances and come-and approached it from very different angles.

LM: Yeah, it’s a storyline we wanted to originally do, kind of with Keith and Lotor back when, like, our kind of original story pitch where Shiro was gonna, kind of, exit the show, Keith was gonna be here, he was gonna stay with the team so he wouldn’t have jetted off and gone into the Blade of Marmora, and it was gonna be a big, like Lotor season where you got Lotor, half Altean and half Galra, Keith, half Galra, half human. And it’s like, you’ve got--

JDS: They sort of were--

LM: --yeah, the duality of those two and, like, how does it work out? And, you know, you see Lotor seems like the guy who has it all together in the beginning, but then ultimately Keith evolves and becomes a better person. So we got to play a little bit of that here with Allura and Honerva, who… very similar situations, but Allura going about it, like, the way that it’s-it’s painful to her. She did lose her entire family, she lost her planet, her home, and even now there’s-there’s a sense in the first episode where she realizes once this war ends, she might not even have, like, her Voltron family. It’s like, they have families--

JDS: They’re all gonna go on their ways.

LM: --like, “what are they gonna do? They don’t need me anymore.” And it’s this, kind of, very--it’s selfish in a way, but it’s beautiful because she can feel that way, but she’s not acting on it.

JDS: Right. She’s allowing herself to feel it, but she’s not acting on it.

LM: She’s not sabotaging the war effort to keep them, which, I would have loved to do that. That dark, sick, twisted version of, like, Allura sabotaging the war effort to keep her Voltron family, but, uh--

KC: There is a universe where that happens.

JDS: Yeah, sure.

LM: But uh, but yeah, it was just beautiful to kind of see how much she was willing to take onto herself

JDS: And at the end of the day, like, you know, we keep sort of using this term “boys toys show” because that’s sort of the reality of what we came into. We sort of were taking on this--this franchise that was very merchandise-based and trying to sell toys to young boys essentially. And at the end of the day it became this story, almost Allura’s story solely when you-when you really sort of, like, step back and look at it, but it was-it was this, sort of, face-off of two strong women that were approaching these problems from very different angles and who the heck would have known that that would have, you know, that would have been the--

LM: Yeah, we didn’t even really know it at the beginning.

JDS: We didn’t. We really didn’t. It evolved.

LM: But, but, yeah. It was nice. It was nice because when we-we told Kimberly, and of course she was sad and like, listen, we know it’s--we never--it’s never personal, we’re not like, “You know, I don’t like that Kimberly, let’s kill Allura.” It’s never that.

KC: At the very last minute.

LM: But it’s, like--

JDS: We also told Neil when--

LM: We told Neil, and we try to be kind and, like, let people know and so we let her know ahead of time and so she’s not just reading the script like, “What the hell?”

KC: “What?!”

LM: And she was sad, but we just let her know, like, “Listen, this is Allura’s story, like, she is literally the hero. She’s not dying to further another hero’s story, she is the hero. Like, this war ends with her.” And then I made her a completely, um, fake promise that I couldn’t really make her. But it--

JDS: I think I know what this fake promise is.

LM: Because I have no control over what they do with Voltron, but I was like, “Listen, if we do any more episodes, I’m bringing her back. We’re not--I’m not making this show without her.” But then, like, I have no control.

MS: But there’s no Voltron without Allura.

LM: I have no control after this point.

KC: Eight seasons, now we need a movie.

JDS: Honestly that the, sort of, post-credits thing was leaving that door open.

LM: Yeah.

JDS: The Lions taking off and seeing the, you know, Allura nebulae, I think, in our minds, it was sort of her quintessence coalescing and--

LM: Reforming. It’s, like, kind of coming back together, so you can do whatever you want with that, like--

JDS: Yeah, but it was--

KC: Have fun, guys!

JDS: Honestly it was-it was a door left open. Like, there’s nobody ever really dies in comics or animation.

LM: I mean, yeah. I feel like comics and animation and sci-fi in and of itself is a door left open.

JDS: Right, right, right.

LM: If the word sci-fi exists in a definition of your show, there is a door left open.

JDS: This was like one step back from the ending of Iron Giant. [hosts going “ohhh”] Like, we didn’t actually, like, show all the pieces going and the thing.

LM: Yeah, like there isn’t an Allura hand that’s just, like, crawling through space.

JDS: Yeah, there’s no hand, like, jumping through the snow.

MS: That would have been terrible! Oh my gosh. But yeah! I think there’s this misconception because Allura is a woman of color and so I think a lot of fans only looking at it superficially were like, “Oh, the woman of color was killed off.” And it’s, like, yeah, there is a trope of people of color dying to save the stupid white people around them, like I understand that trope. But the problem with that superficial interpretation is that they’re ignoring the fact that she’s the main character here.

JDS: Well, there’s that and also just to put it on the table, our original pitch was that they were all gonna die.

KC: Woah!

[Hosts scream and cackle]

JDS: And that got taken off the table.

KC: I love it!

LM: It’s teamwork! Voltron! And honestly, in my opinion, that would have been an easier, like, window to bring them back. If they all disappeared, you could pop them all back anytime and you got the team again. Easy-easy spinoff. But, uh--

JDS: Sorry if the board is blowing up.

KC: So it wouldn’t have been, like, literal bodies, it would have been just disappeared.

LM: Yeah.

KC: Okay.

JDS: We’re not showing, like--

KC: We’re not showing Lotor.

JDS: We showed, like, the melted, like, Lotor body, but--

LM: It would have been the same--

MS: Nobody’s getting Cronenberged in this scenario

KC: Except Lotor.

LM: --same scene except that we, you know, instead of Allura taking it upon herself, they all would have agreed to do it together and-and they would have gone in and essentially taken Voltron out of the equation.

JDS: Right.

LM: That was something we actually really believed for even from early on, we introduced this idea that Alfor had helped to create this thing, not realizing how dangerous it could be; kind of like, you know, the person who created the atom bomb, and, like, having that guilt. And so having Allura be part of the team that took Voltron out of the equation and now that weapon isn’t available to anyone, that was a big deal. We were told that was too sad.

[Hosts laugh]

KC: Uh, you broke chat. Alexis is in chat going, “*rocking back and forth, broken*”. Like, congratulations. Everyone, take a drink of your nonalcoholic beverage of choice.

MS: Oh that is-that is a line of gibberish that she typed.

KC: Oh yeah, no. Everyone’s just losing their noise, it’s great. I love it.

JDS: It was, you know, in a strange way I think, a beautiful sacrifice that Allura is allowed to make. And also really when you think about it, if it had to come down to any one person, she’s from, like, a logistical standpoint she’s the only one powerful enough and we’ve sort of through, you know, being a life-giver.

LM: So, we’ve had a lot of characters, like, who’ve been on, like, the death table. We’ve thrown them all out there at some point.

JDS: Right.

LM: But they all had to, kind of, get thrown out at a point in the story where it made sense that their death would have been worth it. Like, for Pidge, it would have been saving her family. Like if she had died to save her family. For Hunk, it would’ve been saving Earth, which almost happened. Um…

JDS: Hunk was, like, inches away.

[Hosts go “ohhh” and laugh]

LM: We got a yes, and then, like, you know, they were like, “Who’re you gonna replace him with?” And we were like, “A lady,” and then they said, “No.”

MS: Ohhhh.

KC: Would Romelle have been the pilot?

LM: It would have been, it was gonna be Acxa. Yeah, it was gonna be a redemption arc that takes place over this last season of, “It’s not about who you were, it’s about who you are,” and the fact that she’s done some bad things. But she truly believes in doing the right thing and moving forward and she could have been a viable part of that team.

JDS: But I-I also would argue that, like, there’s no--there wouldn’t have been enough time, I think, for everybody to, like, absorb that. If we had, like, a three season run at, like, bringing her in, getting her settled, and then having her, that would have made more sense.

LM: Yeah, that was a hesitation.

JDS: But Hunk’s was especially tragic, like, it was the moment where they were gonna--where they were taking robeast up and there was, like, that ticking time-bomb going off. He literally sees his family, but he’s never actually, like, interacted with them. So he only gets to look at them and see that they’re alive, and then he’s like, “I gotta get this thing out of here.” Sorry everybody!

LM: But he didn’t die! We didn’t kill anyone.

MS: And speaking of dark storylines, princesspony in the hashtag did some fanart of evil Chip.

JDS: Oh wow!

[laughter]

KC: They are very fast.

LM: World domination.

MS: Check out the hashtag #ABTVVoltron to check that out, it makes me very happy.

JDS: Are there red glowing eyes?

MS: No, it’s black and white, but he does look very happy.

LM: But Allura’s death was the only one that made sense from a power standpoint and even from a story standpoint that we were setting up with Honerva. And then also just on--I know, like, it’s probably gonna be highly contested--but on a feminist level from my standpoint, the-the man is always the one who gets to be the hero. Like Armageddon, Bruce Willis sacrifices himself to send, you know, friggin’ Ben Affleck back. And if-if basically Keith had gone like, “I’ll do it,” and then, you know, Allura had to stand on the sidelines and say, “Good thing Keith saved the day! I’m happy!” Like no. I want my women to be able to save the day, too, and even if it’s about making that ultimate sacrifice, if people want to interpret that as sexist, then that’s fine. But we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

KC: I mean, Keith tried to do the heroic sacrifice at one point and it didn’t work.

MS: They went, and you guys went, “No! Don’t do that!”

KC: Lotor was just like, “Excuse me.”

LM: We tried to kill Keith, though.

MS: This was--

LM: That’s not a lie.

MS: You guys apparently tried to kill everyone!

LM: We did. It was because we were told we couldn’t kill Shiro. Like, well, we don’t need two leaders, we’ll kill Keith. And they said, “You can’t do that.”

[Hosts laughing and sputtering]

JDS: Also by the way, we’re not kill-happy people. We’re not. We don’t kill for the sake of killing, like, there’s something--it’s a journey and there’s something meaningful, I think, to everybody’s death. And-and so when you even look at, like, melted Lotor corpse. Like, he basically had done to him what he had done to so many other people, so there’s, like, a sort of a give and a take there.

MS: And like a show where--I don’t want to rag on any other shows that skirt around death or anything like that, because again, they are writing for certain demographics--but I always appreciate when shows have, you know, actions have consequences. And sometimes character death is a really good way of conveying that. And I think for a lot of other people, people forget that Allura in season 1 is the same character that picked up Shiro, threw him out of a room right as the doors were closing, and basically could have died in that moment. She was sacrificing herself, so it’s not like this is out of character for her.

LM: Yeah, and Coran said, like, 15 different times, like, you know, “What about the risks? You could-you could not come back from this. If you give all your quintessence to the balmera, if you give all your quintessence to making this gigantic wormhole to transport Zarkon’s ship.”

JDS: “If you take the darkness into yourself.”

LM: And every time, she would say, like, “I know the risks.”

KC: Yolo.

[laughter]

MS: Until she walks into the west with the other elves.

KC: Or into the void with Honerva. I love that she had to do a hard reset on Honerva’s brain and then we could fix things. Like, she’s the only one that would have been able to do that in any capacity.

LM: Yeah.

JDS: Yeah, and it’s allowing Honerva to maybe experience the consequences that came as a result of her actions and really understand what those--

LM: It’s allowing her to get past, like, the cloud of all of the pain she’s felt, realize, like, remember the good things because sometimes you can get so bogged down with the negativity that you can forget what it was that you loved about a thing in the first place. And she was Altean and she loved discovery, she loved knowledge, and she-she reached out with Alfor and she helped multiple people before, you know, they started this quintessence project that kind of messed everything up. So she just kind of had to show--

JDS: She had hopes, she had dreams, she had heart.

LM: Yeah. At one point.

JDS: [quietly] At one point.

KC: Is there anything else that you--’cuz we’re hitting the end of our time--is there anything else you guys want to touch on now or should we save a few things for next week?

JDS: Uh, yeah, I mean, you know, look, we, I think, Lauren made a really good point in that, you know, sometimes you sort of lose sight of the good things for, you know, some of the negative things. We’d only hope that, you know, the sort of big post-mortem from the fandom at large-- even those that are super unhappy with the way season 8 turned out--sort of looks back on the series with positive feelings because I think there’s, while feelings might get hurt and feelings might--people might feel betrayed by, like, story decisions, like, the show was made with nothing but, like, love and good intentions and positivity and yes we told some hard stories to tell and characters came to certain conclusions that weren’t, like, the most popular decisions, but we were just trying to tell a story that, like, looked beyond the campiness and beyond the colorful robotic silliness to tell something that felt a bit more true and a bit more real and had, as one of our execs would always say, stakes and consequences.

LM: No, stakes and urgent stakes.

JDS: Stakes and urgent stakes.

LM: That was gonna be a restaurant.

KC: That’s one of Vrepit Sal’s new chains. It’s part of Hunk’s food empire. “Steaks and Urgency.”

JDS: But we can, you know, leave all the other stuff for our other show.

LM: Good times.

MS: Yeah, and princesspony has made a new version that’s got red eyes.

JDS: Ah! Red eyes! Red evil eyes!

KC: You asked for red eyes and in-chat they went, “I’ll add red eyes!” All for the red eyes. Well, yeah, thank you for joining us this week. This has been absolutely lovely. Are there any other projects you’re working on that you can tell us about?

JDS: No.

KC: Okay! NDAs it is!

LM: I am working on getting my floors re-done, and I’m getting the popcorn scraped off my ceilings, which is a lot more expensive than I realized it was gonna be. And-and moving all of my crap out of the house so that these people can do this work and that is a hell of a project that I would not wish on anyone.

JDS: And I just took a week off with my wife to Marie Kondo our entire house.

KC: Dang!

MS: Nice!

JDS: She didn’t come over or anything, but we definitely--

LM: Did you actually put it all in a pile?

JDS: She did with her clothes, and it was pretty epic, like, my pile went to your sister to eBay off, so that was. And my pile of toys.

LM: Oh, right, right.

JDS: Her sister is a sweet human being and like, will like, yeah. During the course of Voltron, during the production, like, super weighty dark times, I would just go on, like, eBay and be like, “buy, buy, buy, buy” and a pile of toys stacked up behind me that I never opened up.

LM: Yeah, me too. We had a cardboard box fort.

JDS: Yeah.

KC: Oh, goodness.

LM: And then he had a kid and said, “Oh no, I don’t need all this stuff.”

KC: And return to sender.

JDS: Yeah.

KC: Sounds fun.

MS: eBay.

KC: Where can the people go on social media if they would like to keep up with you?

LM: Um, all of the same places: @artofLaurenM on Twitter, @thebestlaurenmontgomery on Instagram, though I will say the Voltron posts are kind of over at this point. So maybe don’t follow me now if you’re just coming for Voltron. You’ll probably be a little disappointed.

JDS: Same for me. Um, @jds_247 on something and @jds_77 on the other thing. There you go. Underscore in between those. Sorry.

KC: So I’m gonna follow you guys now for Voltron. [laughter] No, no!

JDS: That’s fine!

LM: But if you like any of my other artwork, you’re more than welcome to stay.

KC: I like all of your other artwork.

MS: It’s so pretty!

KC: Alright, thanks again for coming, you guys.

JDS: Thanks for having us, you guys have been awesome this entire time.

LM: And we’ll be back next week.

JDS: That’s right.

KC: Yes we will! I was gonna save that announcement for a little bit. Uh, Megan, where can people find you?

MS: You guys can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at @themenguin. I was gonna say, I wanted to give a quick shoutout to Mark and Emma and Alexis who all were wearing the hashtag tonight. We miss you guys and we love you and we’ll be seeing you soon!

KC: And on the live chat in Alexis’ case.

MS: Love you, Alexis!

KC: You can follow yellow lion Mark Donica at @MarkBDonica, co-red lion Emma Fyffe at @EmmaFyffe, and blue Lauren--blue Lauren--blue lion [unintelligible]. I am Katie Cullen, you can follow me all over the social medias as well as on YouTube and Twitch at kiaxet, I am also on Overwatch podcast called “On the Point”. Guys, we will be back for the final episode of ABTV Voltron. Next week we are doing a series retrospective. Same lion time, same lion channel, thank you so much for watching and we’ll see you next time.

Voiceover: Our founder: Keven Undergaro and me, Megan Menounos, would like to thank you for tuning in to Afterbuzz TV. Remember, we’re not just the first, we’re the biggest in the world and we’re the only destination for all your favorite TV shows. Whatever you crave, we’ve got it, so go to afterbuzztv.com and check out our lineup. Buzz you later!

[maevelin]

That is what i find so frustrating about TO. You have to be on another level of crap storywriting, if you have all the characters you need there in front of you on a plate yet instead of using your creativity and working with what you have you conjure up a baby plot revolving around a character no one even asked for. The whole reason we wanted TO as a show was to see more of TO family. These are supernatural creatures that have lived 1000 years yet theyre reduced to soap opera storylines. 1/2

I was really slow to pick up on the fact that TO wasnt going to be the show we all asked for. I wasnt really an active part of the fandom on social media then so didnt know what was going on so when TO was announced i stupidly thought this is going to be amazing, a plot about the original family. By that point i was sick of damon and most of TVD characters and was rooting for klaus to kill them all lol. It wasn't till the scene where Rebekah's driving away from NOLA in her car i (2/3)

Realised that she's actually leaving for good. I still thought in my head that this is just part of the plot but then i found out Claire left and i realised that this baby plot is actually what the show is, and not the show i was expecting so i stopped watching for a long time. Maybe i was just stupid because the pilot did make it clear it was about a baby plot and not TO family. Also weird how elijah was barely in TVD, rebekah was in it more yet Elijah was more prominent in TO. (3/3)

--- 

I honestly believe that JP never cared or wanted to write for vampires. She doesn’t have the knack or the talent for that genre. She does not grasp it. She does not care for it. I think she was there to fill in the blanks for Kevin and together they made a decent team. Kevin had the genre down up to a point and was good with the plot and the characterization and Julie could sprinkle some soap to the ships and the emotional drama and that combination actually fit. 

It is no wonder that once Kevin was out everything became a shipping soup and by the end of it everyone seemed to have one goal. To be human. To act human. To get the white fence, the babies, the normal life. Which would be find for a drama soap or show concerning humans but was catastrophic for the kind of genre show TVD was and what TO was meant to be but never was. I mean how many vampires were even left in the end? Not just those that died but those that turned...human. Come on now. JP wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She didn’t care for TO in the way a genre writer should and would. She wanted to get her baby soap and that was the only chance she actually had to go through with it. Everything else of hers that didn’t belong to the TVD franchise was getting cancelled in their pilots or before their first seasons even finished airing. And in general as a writer she writers for the telenovela kind of soap and she can’t separate in her mind church from state in the way that she couldn’t divide what she wanted as a fan from what she should write as a professional. She believed it to be one and the same and when it would not work she would throw everyone else under the bus so to avoid responsibility and then she would try to make it work anyway. Well... newsflash Felicia!

I on the other hand however was not in the same boat you were where TO was concerned. 

By the time S4 of TVD had reached its middle I was seeing things I hated. When they killed Kol while they were planning for the spin-off my mind was on red alert. I knew by that time how JP operated. It was obvious. I already knew her ways with the fans from Kyle XY too. Then I heard Phoebe had signed first. BEFORE Joseph while they had killed off Kol so Nate wouldn’t be part of the show. I saw where that Klayley trainwreck was leading. I already knew JP’s lack of talent and her inability to actually create intellectual plots and twists. So I was suspicious. I wanted this to actually work. I was an Original groupie first. I was rooting for the Original to get their own show but not in that way. It was like I watching a crash happening and I could not avert my eyes while everyone else was not seeing it.  I was voicing my concerns back then and I remember that the fandom kind of saw me like the crazy lady in the lot but when the backdoor pilot aired I was 100% sure of what TO was going to be. Rebekah was regressed to a supporting cameo ffs! Kol was dead. Klaus was OOC crying in the streets next to his lunch that was obviously by the promotional interviews and the way they framed it in the backdoor pilot meant to be his love interest with what I saw from the gifs later (since I had never finished the backdoor pilot because when they threw the twilight scene I was out) was a copy of a KC scene with the whole art but meant to be more ‘deep’. The whole episode had some cinematic moments that were okay and I remember liking that they had used the Lafayette cemetery from Interview with the Vampire. The soundtrack seemed awesome. Marcel actually seemed interesting. And then...the baby crap and I was out. Back then before the backdoor pilot had even aired Joseph Morgan had said in an interview that if he was in charge some things may have been differently done. But then I remember thinking...oh crap...and then the episode actually aired and OH CRAP.

I never bothered with TO. 

I dropped TVD like a bad habit when S4 ended and saw the ridiculousness with the doppelganger nonsense. At that point given everything JP was doing I found it really hard to understand how people could hold on to hope when it came to her and her writing. I was trying to warn people from the fandom left and right. Because I had honestly gotten truly attached not only with the ship but with the fandom too and I didn’t want people to get their hopes up and get treated as I was seeing them get treated. I was seeing it, I was speaking about it and understandably most people believed me to be irrational. I remember even people that I was close with and still am to give me the sideeye and be okaaay then.

By the time the official pilot aired along with TO’s first season I was 100% they would cut out the KC phonecall scene that was only meant to be a hook to get the green light for the backdoor pilot rather than anything else. The seen was cut of course.

But then I remember thinking that any responsible writer would aim to get a crossover as soon as possible and get Caroline there even to create a closure small arc to span in the two shows slowly (as they did with BTVS and ATS) but then they were all about saying how logistics were not working and the universes were going to be separated and I was still unable to understand how people actually had hope when the people in charge had no talent to do the basics and were so reluctant. The warning bells were there. Kudos to the DCTV universe for actually going for the crossovers in parallel back then so to show to everyone how the excuses the TO writers and producers were using were just that...excuses.

I was out for sure but I remember that I still kept an eye out to what blogs I followed reblogged and I remember when I realized how sloppy TO actually was. I remember seeing a gifset from a flashback of Klaus that aimed to be a visual parallel to Lestat from Interview with the Vampire only in the lore of the TVD franchise it was from before he broke his curse and he was shown with double fangs and golden eyes that were Hybrid traits. They actually didn’t bother to keep the basics of their main lead consistent for crying out loud. I don’t remember from which episode that gifset actually was. Only that it was from the first episodes and I was like...come on!

I remember I basically muted and unfollowed many blogs back then so to get my dash clean from that mess.

Anyhow I then returned for the 100th episode of TVD. When 5x11 of TVD was meant to air and the promos were out I was insisting that anything else that a kiss would be bad news for KC. I didn’t want to ruin everyone’s excitement but I was just getting a bad feeling about it especially after knowing JP’s track record. It was just too obvious to my eyes and it would be a regression in the development KC had up to that point. You DON’T narratively speaking -from a writing perspective- go from one cheek to the kiss to the whole sex when the characters are in different shows forming different attachment and ships if you don’t meant to wrap up the story. Which would mean leaving fans high and dry after leading them along. By that time TO was doing well in the ratings and I knew JP only cared for that and the KC fandom was not needed in her mind. I had made posts about it warning people again before 5x11 had aired. I remember I had even gotten some aggressive asks from KC fans about spoiling their fun and being negative without an actual reason. Then 5x11 airs, the sex scene is there (all sloppy to just get it out of the way...bad directing, not bothering with a song, giving the bare minimum) and JP goes all out and gives the interview about the KC closure minutes after the episode airs so to ruin everyone’s parade. Then there was the bomb with Claire’s exit which in my eyes was pending anyway ever since I had heard Claire had wanted to stay in TVD but was given an ultimatum only for her to be barely there in the backdoor pilot.

So generally speaking when it came to TO I was never hopeful. Not when JP was in charge. Not when they hired Carina out of all people for their writing team. Carina that hated Klaus and the KC fans. Not when they were disrespecting KCers from day one. Not when they were disrespecting the Kol fans. Not when Daniel was out there saying that once we would meet the new girl we would forget all about KC (which was said before TO’s first season aired so it was obvious that everyone was lying about Klaus not having a love interest). Not when the cast was mocking a whole fandom. Not when the conflicting interviews kept coming. Not when they had hired the gossip girl writers and producers and no one bothered with the actual genre. Not when...not when...not when...the list kept going. 

I kept my criticism and my predictions going and I remember being patient because most people believed me to be crazy (which I am generally but not when it came to that so I could understand the confusion) 

....and flash forward and here we are. 

Although, admittedly, certain things did surprise me on a real life level, at first anyway, because fictional stuff aside I could never believe that certain people could act in the way they did (losing flights? getting into twitter fights, picking out fans, and even calling them assholes in podcasts? on and on), but otherwise I never had any expectations to begin with so most things didn’t surprise me and yes I did earn the right to go ‘I told you so’...which I tried to tone it down many times but sometimes it was just too fun to resist. 

[jbuffyangel]

Walking into my inbox like...

because of this article. LOL Thanks for all the heads up my friends. I didn’t know it existed. Yes, I read it. Yes, it sounds like I wrote it. No, I did not write it. Some wonderful person named Lynsey Neill did. However, it’s possible we mind melded unbeknownst to us. She uses pretty words like “fully realized superhero” too. 

Dear Lynsey,

We should grab a virtual coffee and talk all things L*urel L*nce.

Love, 

Me

Put me down for cosigned. This is actually a really positive article on E1 L*urel L*nce. It articulates a lot of the reasons why I loved LL’s character. I don’t agree with all the points made, but the vast majority hits the nail on the head for me. I was invested in this character for many years too. 

The L*uriver section is particularly stellar:

Ladies and gentlemen, if your boyfriend cheats on you with your sister and in the process she gets killed (or is presumed dead) would you ever think of them the same? Yeah, in that hypothetical scenario, they swiftly and irrevocably become someone you can’t rely on. They aren’t your person anymore, and probably never were. #TeamLaurel

SAY IT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!

My biggest issue with L*uriver was I never wanted to see L*urel kiss Oliver again. Their relationship reminded me of something I really disliked about Oliver - he cheated. Any time he made a move on L*urel I was instantly reminded of the fact that he banged her sister on the regular for years. YUCK. 

However, this section really brings the article home for me.

But they both moved on, Laurel forgave Oliver and they remained friends. For like a season in and a half. A good chunk of season 2 through season 4 they were just indifferent. Sometimes they would get into the occasional screaming match that required popcorn. However, if your relationship with the main character is indifferent, what’s to stop the audience from feeling the same?

Yes, indifference is exactly how I felt about L*urel by the end of Season 4 and Ms. Neil captures why I felt this way perfectly.

As far as Bl*ck S*ren’s redemption this sums it up for me:

All the sane and rational humans maintained that Black Siren was not the Laurel we lost. She was fun and stirred up trouble for our heroes. She had so much potential to just be a character thats unapologetically a bad person. Sure, everyone has their moments, but for the most part we want a ruthless female antagonist who has the face of a dead friend.

The fun of Bl*ck S*ren is she wears the face of their dead friend. All the drama comes from this angle. You run the risk of putting Bl*ck S*ren’s character back to where L*urel L*nce’s character ended by redeeming her: indifference. A character arrives at indifference when the writers A) are no longer invested or B) they’ve run out of story ideas. I think both happened to L*urel’s character. 

Oliver is as indifferent to Bl*ck S*ren as he was to L*urel, which automatically puts her character on an uphill battle. 

The main character rejects Bl*ck S*ren entirely because she is not his L*urel and never can be. The only real tangible connection these two characters have is when Bl*ck S*ren is wreaking havoc on Star City and Oliver is forced to contend with her. He truly does not give a damn when she plays white hat and any interaction between the two plummets. 

So... how is a redeemed Bl*ck S*ren any better than L*urel L*nce? It doesn’t solve the main issue which is the character lacks any real connection to the star of the show.

Bl*ck S*ren playing lawyer and apologizing starts to strip her of the very things that make her interesting. There is no way this character can ever be E1 Laurel. They are simply different people. Any attempt by Bl*ck S*ren feels like an insult to our L*urel. It’s like saying LL is replaceable with a look alike copy cat and the essence of who she was can simply be mimicked. Umm... NO.

Imagine for a moment it was Felicity who was killed off 

(I know I know. The horror but just roll with me for a second). Let’s say an evil version of Felicity exists out in the multiverse. (All evidence to the contrary but let’s fake it for the purpose of this hypothetical.)

If an evil Felicity came roaring into town, murdering people and causing general havoc, would we believe for a hot second she is our beloved Felicity? NO.

Would we accept any world in which this evil version is redeemed and therefore a replacement of the character we lost? OF COURSE NOT. That’s like saying Nazi Oliver can be our Oliver. 

The only point I disagree with Ms. Neill on is I do believe there is a way to fold Bl*ck S*ren into Team Arrow, without losing all of the drama. If Bl*ck S*ren retains her darker tendencies, sarcasm and biting edge, then she can be to Team Arrow what Spike was to the Scooby Gang (before he got his soul back). 

Team Arrow can openly hate on Bl*ck S*ren and shade her all day long. 

Source: @ebett​

Bl*ck S*ren can rip on Team Arrow while being a constant chaos causing unknown element for the team. Yet, they work together because their goals meld. Say for example Felicity and Bl*ck S*ren teaming up to stop Diaz. This can create A LOT of really fun scenes.

Do I think this packs as much punch as evil Bl*ck S*ren? No. I think the best use for the character is to go all in and make her the Big Bad. She’s a powerful meta human who wears the face of a woman Oliver once loved. She can make Oliver’s life a living hell if the writers embraced all the power this character has.

Unfortunately, they are constantly reeling Bl*ck S*ren in by making her a victim or someone who needs to be saved. It’s ridiculous. 

If Bl*ck Siren achieves redemption I have no doubt K*tie C*ssidy will play her in a different way from E1 Laurel or evil Bl*ck S*ren, so the arc itself doesn’t really concern me in any way. It’s more wishing the writers would take the character in another direction I find more interesting. 

Do we need a third version of this character on top of Dinah Drake’s BC? No. The cast is pretty bloated as is and we run the risk of these supporting characters taking up space without having anything to do. This is the reason LL was killed off in the first place. 

It’s not the first time I’ve disagreed with the writers on the characters KC plays and it’s it probably won’t be the last. Worst case, I’ll end up at indifferent again but my hope is the writers can still make this character interesting whether she’s redeemed or not.

[ruwithmeguys]

You’ve got to accentuate the positive...

It really doesn’t take much for people to say a TV show has gone stale. Or, that a season is bad because of an episode arc. And something I won’t do is judge what I already love on the basis of a few spoilers or a few episodes (or episode arc). I’m used to it by now to be 100% affected by the ugh of it all...

By 6.11 of Arrow, I wasn’t alone in hailing s6 as the best season of arrow. It has everything in it: Oliver’s growth. Olicity getting married. Starting a family (this coming from the man who used to think he’d die alone). Diggle getting some focus once again (though I question why he wants to be GA, because in every prior season, he hasn’t even mentioned it). Felicity being so clearly strong willed (especially in 6.03/04/07/08/09/10/11) and effortlessly brilliant. The new team progressing in their own way…

Whether it’s a way we like or not.

A lot of people have complained about the villains this season too. I’m good with it. We don’t need to have a horribly terrifying villain every season. We don’t need another Adrian Chase or Malcolm Merlyn. I liked and still like the idea of a group of semi-capable villains, regardless of whether or not the actor/actress is someone we/I can back, because I don’t think we’ve gotten to the bottom of it yet.

What I’m puzzled by the most however, is the reaction to the current arc; the way people are getting lost and angry and frantic by it.

Don’t you know Arrow by now?

Perspective:

(S1, a season of introduction, isn’t one we can use to discuss this so- nope!)

S2: there was a solid stream of episodes, all focusing on or around Sara Lance, Laurel and Quentin. Sara and her attempt to change so that she could exist in Oliver’s world. Sara’s attempt to fight off her own darkness and failing to do so, arguing about it with Oliver over and over again because of Roy, Slade and Helena. Sara and Laurel’s relationship. Sara and Oliver and Laurel’s history. Laurel realizing her bitterness was hurting her sister. Oliver letting go of any feelings he had for Laurel after his final attempt at caring, once again, ended up hurting him. Laurel and Quentin’s fight against their addictions – it went on and on and on until I thought my interest had gone dry...

S3: the 4 mind-numbing episode arc about LL becoming BC before uselessly being abandoned for another 5 episodes and the team’s morose attempt at fighting the good fight without their leader. Oliver thinking he can’t live, thinking he can’t have it all – that to trust his team, meant inviting darkness. And an extra 2 episodes where we had to watch Oliver make more bad choices and Felicity start a relationship with Ray, 3.10 to 3.15. That’s 6 episodes of UGH.

S4: Less episode arcs and more a general feeling. Oliver was put in the backseat in order to sell LL and Thea as members of the team. I know you all love Thea, but to me, she didn’t quite fit the team. The way her character progressed made this feeling worse. Then we had Oliver lying to the love of his life for 8 episodes. So, yeah. BAD.

S5: love it or hate it, season 5 had several stand alone episodes that made you nauseous. 5.13, 14, 15 were particularly crappy.

Any of you who thought they’d change this pattern for the sixth season, were fooling yourselves, I’m sorry to say. But S6, I think, has been one of the kinder seasons.

There’s no bad Olicity angst (the 6.08 angst was delicious). There’s no ridiculous attempt at selling a character to us. There’s no ‘I’m Oliver Queen which means I can’t have a life’ crapola…

The way the team split was handled has left much to be desired, I know that. It really has. I admit that I can’t love the new guys like I do OTA, but I did like them. Now I can’t stand them. They took every bad habit Oliver has EVER possessed, thrown them in his face and then utilized them x10 and made excuses for their behaviour… and then blamed Oliver once more.

But even with the crappy attitudes of the newbies and their horrifying lack of morality recently, each episode this season has been pretty on the ball.

I also know a lot of us don’t like BS.

In portraying LL or BS, KC seems to have a problem with grabbing the majority audience’s sympathy. Her villain role this year has been decidedly camp and over the top and, once again, her character is rooted in selfishness. No surprises there. And now, well, she’s using (going to use) LL’s identity to get what she wants. I hope Quentin is happy: he gave her the tools for this.

Anyone who wasn’t expecting this or for her to be in 6.15 a whole lot, were not paying attention.

She’s going to use the excuse of being kidnapped for a couple of years and assume LL’s identity. This is not the action of someone who wants redemption. This is the action of a mole. I always thought she’d try to play one side against the other for her own gain and I bet that she does.

She’ll also use her knowledge of the team as leverage: blackmailing Oliver and co so that they can’t prosecute her because she knows so much and, really, they can’t imprison her unless they want to unfairly blemish LL’s reputation, because she isn’t LL.

Happily, Oliver made it very clear that he a) doesn’t care about saving her, he’s looking after the city and b) pretty much doesn’t want to see her again. Everything else he did in 6.14 was rooted in his respect for Quentin. I know Quentin has officially flown over the cuckoo’s nest but after years of friendship etc, Oliver owes it to him. Even if he knows it’s not right. He’ll do it, just this once.

Saying it the way he did too, to never wanting to hear her name or see her face again… it’s like not expecting a child to do the exact opposite of what they’re told. Of course the writers would have her push back.

You know, she could have gone with Quentin. Instead, she’s decided to immerse herself in another woman’s life. When you’re looking for redemption, that’s kind of the last thing you do. She wants something. And she’s going to take it.

And you know what? This could be really good.

They’ve slanted away from a true redemption arc. It doesn’t mean she won’t end up there. But the likelihood of it being about true goodness is pouring away, fast. And it’s going to bite all of them on the ass.

You know, I state the obvious, if it was any other character/actress, we wouldn’t be having the same problem with this SL.

I don’t like LL/BS or KC. I have my reasons, which I won’t force on anyone and I know that if this were a different character/actress/actor, the ‘god, this again’ I’d feel and the outrage everyone else has displayed, wouldn’t be nearly so high.

This isn’t a plot-line to make people happy. It’s designed to both satisfy a trope (for her stans) and not repeat a character (for us, because enough with boring and predicable please) and to make us all freak out and get angry. We’ll be waiting for something to go wrong. They want us on tender hooks and you know what? It’s working.

The amount of hype the people who hate this arc have produced is more than the hype created by those who like it.

There’s goodness coming. There is.

But every year, a chunk of the fandom family start hating on the show with nearly the exact arguments as the years previous. I get it. I do.

But, you know what else happens every year? The slingshot.

Would I like Felicity and Oliver to hog the screen time, I sure would. It took years to get them married. Show us more for god sake! 

But it isn’t realistic. The show has more than one character and the design of it, though flawed, is one they haven’t changed. There are filler episodes and other things. We knew – we KNEW – that 6b (6.10 – 6.14/15) would have little to no Olicity (save some amazing moments, especially in 6.11) and yet there’s still surprise at this. 

We knew, after watching 6.12 that the newbies were wrong and would continue to be so. We knew that the BS arc would be a royal pain in the ass, but this latest twist is going to test the characters and maybe that’s a good thing.

First thing’s first though. Every single season, Felicity’s story goes like this:

We have a group of episodes surrounding her. Then she comes out of the main focus but is still very much part of the plot. She has brilliant moments that make the show great. Then, like a slingshot, roughly during episodes 16/17/18, she pops back into focus for the rest of the season.

Let’s look at past seasons again.

S2: between episode 1 and 5, she’s very much relevant but not the focus and then for 6 to 10, she was very focal. With Sara’s introduction and Roy’s, she’s secondary until roughly 2.19 up till the finale.

S3: episodes 1 and 2, she’s focal. 3 and 4 she’s not. 5, 7 and 9, she’s focal. 6, 8, she’s not. Then the BC arc and episode 14. Then slingshot round again.

I do think season 3 gave Felicity the most SL isn’t given ANY of the female characters in Arrow. Now, there are too many characters for this to work.

Still, it repeats, it repeats, it repeats. Same with season 4, same with season 5.

Would I like more married Olicity, HECK YES. But – and the way they’ve done it is more than a little skewed – they’re trying to make it look like Olicity are currently waylaid by all the drama. They literally don’t have enough time to be together. They’ve gone back to saving the city full time; just like in season 2 and 3 where they had to somehow handle saving the city alone with living their lives. Both Oliver and Felicity were unable to do so alone, from what I remember. Now we know there could be more scenes. They could give us a few moments at least (beyond the few brillo-pads ones we’ve had). But those scenes were sold to Rene and Curtis. Thankfully, there’ll be less of them in 6.15/17 etc.

As much as I don’t like it, we’ll get back to it.

And as much as I’d like to see more of Felicity’s SL, I’m going to leave any and all judgement on the lack of it since 6.07, until the end of the season. Safe to say, it’s been taken over by her break with Curtis. He did the unforgivable. She gave up her money to save Oliver. I believe we’ll get more, but there’s just too much going on.

Would I prefer to see that over the badly handled civil war crap? Yes. Of course I would. Would I prefer to see more married Olicity, more Felicity and Diggle over this BS bull? Yes, I would. But they got MARRIED. The show literally told the audience they were each other’s true loves and destined to be together. The writers actually allowed Oliver to get married. It means they probably think they can afford a few episodes of not giving us much in that department but again, it depends why you watch the show.

I’m also hoping the writers showed the B team to be assholes because they’ve got lessons to learn and forgiveness to earn, I really hope for that.

They’ve mentioned a honeymoon. The show only does that when they plan to deliver, whether it’s this season or the next. Either of them could end up in jail. If fan theory is correct, Oliver gets poisoned/drugged in 6.18, leaving her alone in 6.19.

My point is that, the show isn’t going stale just because of an arc that’s been handled in such a way. Or because of a character that we literally don’t care lives or dies. Or turns into a goat. Whatever.

It’s going to be fine…

In re to BS – Stephen, Emily, Juliana and KC mentioned things about her. KC’s words haven’t been accurate save for aforementioned extreme contention between BS and DD.

The only thing Stephen said about it was that it would be interesting if LL was actually walking around in the daylight the past couple of years. He said it was an interesting take. That was it. And I agree. I don’t like her, but I agree.

Emily mentioned there might still be a thing between Felicity and BS (another possible fight) and really, if BS pretending to be LL culminates in her facing off with Felicity then bring it on because my god, it’s a death wish waiting to happen! I’ll get the popcorn!

I was done with LL./BS/KC long ago but I’m choosing to see the little goodies in the crap because I love the show, even with its faults. It hasn’t gone stale guys. The newbies are idiots but they never used to be, so I’m waiting for the penny to drop for them. Let’s just ride it out, kay?

This season has given us so much, even if it hasn’t delivered on other things we’re waiting for, so I’ve decided to accentuate the positive. If a show pushes it, then they’ve earned the scorn. Arrow hasn’t pushed this season as far they’ve done in previous additions and we get the added luxury of Olicity being a pillar.

For now, I’m good.

[darklygophilia]

Hello I would love your opinion on that double date tommy and LL had with oliver and Helena in season 1. I get the impression that LL was marking her territory so to speak even though she didn't notice how uncomfortable tommy looked. Poor guy he deserved better.

Well, let me just say, back in S1 I was all for the Merlance ship. Tommy clearly cared for AND loved Laurel. She gave him a reason to grow up & be an adult. And Tommy made Laurel likable. The scenes Laurel was with Tommy, I actually liked. Not just b/c Laurel & Tommy actually had chemistry (unlike Lauriver which, well…did NOT) but the writing between the two of them was spot on. It’s my firm belief that people shouldn’t change themselves for someone else, you should still be allowed to be yourself. That’s why Lauriver never worked, & never could work, b/c Laurel was always pushing Ollie to become better when that was really something he should’ve done all on his own (plus, Ollie clearly wasn’t ready to become better, he had to do that all on his own). Tommy chose to change, he came to that conclusion all on his own, & it wasn’t even all about Laurel. Remember that scene when Tommy is asking Laurel’s opinion on throwing that charity ball for CNRI, he talks about how he was tired of the emotionless existence he was living. He came to the conclusion that he wanted more all on his own, it just so happened he wanted more with Laurel.

It’s when the change happens all on its own & for the better of THAT person, when it’s best. Ollie changed into Oliver long before he came back from his five years of hell. However, whenever he was around Sara or Laurel, Ollie would rear his ugly head (& hair) & he’d revert back temporarily to pre-island-Ollie. He was only ever fully Oliver when he wasn’t around Laurel (which says something, IMO). His change happened in part b/c of the Island, as well as Digg & Felicity’s influence - but, still, the change happened b/c Oliver wanted to change. He never wanted to grow up with Laurel, if anything her constant forgiveness & ignoring his behavior downright enabled it. That’s why Lauriver never worked.

So, yeah in S1, despite that double date with Oliver/Helena & Tommy/Laurel where, yes - I agree - it did feel like she was marking her territory (to answer your question), I still felt like Merlance was good for each other. Just like Olicity was good for each other. In S2 it felt like Laurel was addressing her own guilt over betraying Tommy (in an entirely self-destructive way) through her addiction. However, as the series went on, & as Laurel CONTINUED to pine for Ollie in the shadows, Merlance became less romantic & far more tragic. At least in regards to Tommy, b/c he did deserve better. Laurel didn’t love him! By the end of S3 (& after re-watching S1) Merlance felt more like it was Laurel’s way of trying to get back at Oliver.

Between the Merlance ship, Tommy was the only one that was actually committed to the relationship. Yes, I do believe that if you’re with someone, but you’re wishing you were with someone else, or thinking about someone else in a romantic way (Laurel pining for Ollie) then THAT is a form of mental cheating! I don’t mean in a strict sense. Despite being with someone, we all (every now & then) check out a guy/girl that passes by. But, that’s it. We are only human after all. But, Laurel was actively pining for someone else when she was supposed to be in a committed relationship with Tommy. Think of “Gone With the Wind” - Scarlett was married to Rhett, but she spent their entire marriage actively pining for Ashley (that’s what I’d call mental cheating). When it’s THAT constant, than yes it’s a problem in a relationship. Which is why I could never feel sorry or sympathize with Laurel over Ollie cheating on her with Sara (or anyone else for that matter). B/c 1) Laurel proved to be just as much a liar & just as manipulative as Ollie; & 2) Laurel willingly entered (& downright encouraged) a love triangle between two BFFs who were practically brothers (hell, Tommy/Oliver share a half-sister, the the parallel is sound). Then at the end of S1, after she’s spent multiple episodes claiming her love for Tommy & how she wants them to get back together, how she wants them to work as a couple - then she just (quite literally) falls into Ollie’s arms the moment he shows up. After going to Tommy & practically begging him to come back! Laurel proved she was no better than Ollie & Sara!

With all that said, yes, it did feel like that particular double date was awkward. Not just b/c Oliver was trying to respect Laurel’s decision to be with Tommy (if you re-watch that scene, Laurel’s the one bringing up all those Lauriver memories, not Oliver) but b/c Laurel is clearly uncomfortable with Ollie dating someone else. Which isn’t fair to Tommy or Oliver. I always felt like Laurel was right on par with Lana Lang from Smallville. She doesn’t like Ollie lying to her & keeping secrets b/c then she doesn’t want to be with him, but she also doesn’t want any other woman to have him. Lana was the same way with Clark - she hated that he kept secrets/lied & therefore she couldn’t be with him, but she also didn’t like it when he was with any other woman. Essentially, she didn’t want him, but no one else could have him either. How is that fair? It’s not!

By the end of S4, my stance on Merlance was altered yet again! We learn that Laurel shows absolutely NO guilt over Tommy’s death (he died to save her, for fucks sake), & she doesn’t even have any guilt over betraying him. Also, before this gets pinned on the show writers, this one is entirely on KC herself. It’s been told by the writers & producers that KC had a lot of input during her final episodes in S4. She’s the one that came up with that horrible line about Ollie still being the love of Laurel’s life. Essentially, KC wanted Laurel to mean something for Ollie, she wanted laurel to have some impact on his life, which is why Tommy’s character is entirely railroaded in 4x18/4x19.

It’s revealed that Laurel begins her addiction not b/c of any guilt over Tommy, or even heartbreak over loosing him. Nope! It’s all b/c Ollie left her (again). Not only does this put her right on par with “Twilight’s” Bella Swan (a girl who wanted to kill herself just b/c her boyfriend dumped her), but it also took away any chance that Laurel could ever be a genuine, strong, empowering female character. Just look at her arc throughout the entirety of the show: S1 was all about being a love interest in a tug of war between two guys, S2 was all about Tommy’s death & getting revenge, S3 was all about Sara’s death & getting revenge as well as blaming Ollie for practically everything, S4 was all about her dying b/c of her father & Dhark, S5 she was just the trophy wife in Ollie’s fantasy world. Seriously, not a single arc was about her as a woman, or a person. It was all about other characters in her life, almost all of which were guys. That’s not empowering that Laurel (the writers) made her life center around men (Ollie, Tommy, her father)!

Now, most of this has to do with the writers of the show, as I’ve always said. Laurel was written by men, for men - which, IMO, is the main problem her character failed. She had a lot of potential, though. “I mourn what she could’ve been” has always been my stance on the Laurel Lance character.

Anyway, those are my long, unnecessary thoughts on the subject. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, I tend to give really fucking long answers to any question I’m asked. Lol.

#TommyDeservedBetter