#seth kardona of septarsis

[lil-oreo-cookie]

Torrence: Seth… you’re a bitch!

Seth: …

Seth: Who taught Torrence that word??

Mylanie: I did, bitch!

So on my non-AU blog I was asked about the relationship between Toffee and Seth in the Septarsis-Dragonfly AU, and I basically stated that their conflict all kind of stemmed from Seth’s relationship with his mother, Mylanie, and what Toffee observed in his youth.

I also mentioned how Seth (a deeply closeted gay man) got real confused and misinterpreted the thrill he got from debating Mylanie about Mewmans and Politics… as romantic feelings, thus leading to him trying to convince her to become Lady of Septarsis, which she always refuses because they are just friends.

And I alluded to the fact that Toffee is very defensive and protective of his momma.

So, that’s where this little interaction comes in! It’s kinda self explanatory.

YES CURRENT TIMELINE/OVELIA STUFF IS COMING DW 🫶🏻✨

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

can you discuss the relationship between Toffee and Seth

Absolutely!! I’d be happy to!!

Normally, I see Toffee and Seth being depicted with a relatively positive relationship. However, I don’t and have never really seen it that way.

The full story is under the cut, but the TL;DR is this: Toffee does not like Seth hardly at all. Seth sees Toffee as his own son and loves him to death, but Toffee cannot stand being “fathered” by him. As far as Toffee knows, he never had a father and Seth was DEFINITELY not his father, and gets so upset when Seth refers to him as “son”.

Despite Toffee not being able to stand him, he can and does acknowledge his great diplomacy skills and that he is the best leader for Septarsis. His beef is a lot more personal. He will admit with no hesitation that Seth would have made a great ruler for Monsterkind and is personally angered and offended just like everyone else about Crescenta’s smear campaign.

Toffee also unknowingly bought into a lot of his ideals over the course of his life, he just adjusted his angle and took different actions into trying to solve the same problem.

It’s a mix of frustration yet begrudging respect for him as the man who took him in after his mother’s death on Toffee’s end. On Seth’s end, it’s praise, adoration, and a very fatherly view he has on Toffee, despite how pissed he gets at a lot of Toffee’s actions over the course of his life (i.e., Comet and his whole embarrassing “Bad Boy” phase).

-

AU Story:

For some context, I may need to explain Seth and his relationship with Toffee’s mother in my AU, Mylanie Ambrose of Septarsis, because that’s where their rocky relationship really stems from.

When Seth took his rightful place as the Supreme Lord of Septarsis (he hates the term King), he completely tore apart the system the previous (very corrupt) ruler (who brought Septarsis into its dark age) had been using for the two-hundred or so years he was in charge, and replaced it with his own system. Part of that system involves a rotating legislation of representatives (a council of sorts) every fifty or so years (can vary and there are exceptions). The Septarians would get restless with the same person in power for the centuries they live, so Seth ensures that there are new faces and new voices. No matter how good of a Supreme Lord or beloved by the people be is, he will never put just himself or his sister Zarina in charge of decision making.

With that said, Mylanie, a dreamer who strongly believes in a future of peace and harmony with Mewmankind in the future, joins the council. She is incredibly passionate and a very loud advocate for peace, catching Seth’s attention. The two form a friendship outside of politics and get along, but they are fiercely on opposite sides when it pertains to the Mewman problem. Mylanie wants to make peace with a future queen while Seth thinks war is one of their only possibilities. Zarina is the awkward middleman trying to find a truce between their fiercely opposed sides.

Seth is decidedly a gay man, but because he’s so deep in denial and closeted he mistakes the thrill and passion he gets from debating her as… romantic feelings (whoops) and starts offering his hand to make her the Lady of Septarsis. She always refuses.

Then Mylanie has Toffee. (His real name is Torrence but I’m gonna call him Toffee for simplicity)

So, essentially, Toffee’s exposure to Seth for his entire early life is through the eyes of his mother and the debates she has with him. He kind of sits back and watches the two of them go at it.

Seth is a lot more of a brute who values a good soldier at this point so he (playfully) critiques Mylanie for not teaching her son any defense skills or anything to do with fighting and instead just lets him “read books and frolic all the time”. He also jokingly teases her for how “girly” Toffee looks/acts (the long hair with flowers/flower crowns and his general soft/shy demeanor). Toffee, despite his young age, is very aware of all of this, along with the courting issue Seth still brings up every once in a while. He can get really protective of her.

But Seth absolutely tried to bond with him… and he considers trying to teach him how to fight ��bonding”. Toffee’s not really into the whole war (he IS raised by his mother after all) and doesn’t really reciprocate.

When the Solaria’s situation happens and Mylanie passes away, Toffee is taken in by Seth and Zarina permanently. Seth really steps up and makes an effort to form a bond with Toffee, but he’s grieving really bad and Seth trying to make nice really hits him the wrong way.

While Toffee is friends with Eclipsa, Seth eventually finds out and discourages him from spending anymore time with her, but Toffee refuses to listen to him and still spends time with the princess regardless. He sees Seth as trying to take away the one thing he still has in this world. Seth tries to insist that the Mewmans and the world they’ve created are dark, selfish, and cruel, and Eclipsa is no different. Toffee fights with him on this, but it isn’t until the two friends have their tragic fallout that Toffee admits that Seth was right about Eclipsa and he should have listened to him.

Regardless of Seth being “proven right”, this still doesn’t make Toffee like him. During his bad boy teenage years he’s blatantly disrespectful, haughty, and an overall pain for Seth and Zarina to deal with. However, this is actually when Toffee starts to buy into Seth’s ideals. Toffee is unaware of just how much he’s starting to agree with Seth about his stances on Mewmanity, but his specific issue is on the magic they use. (If you ask him at this stage about it he’ll tell you you’re insane for the suggestion alone.)

Despite his bad attitude, Toffee’s natural talent in leadership and combat causes Seth to favor him a lot. Toffee rises the ranks quickly and becomes increasingly popular amongst the troops and the army. Toffee actually (begrudgingly) accepts advice and one on one training from Seth, which adds to his skill set.

But what Toffee HATES is how much Seth starts “fathering” him. Seth refers to Toffee as his son, and Toffee has to keep reminding him that he is decidedly NOT his son and NEVER will be, no matter how much Seth wants to think so. This ties back to Toffee’s lingering frustration over the whole “courting” he used to attempt with his mother.

When Toffee takes a break from the army to focus on studying Mewmans, magic, and their history, (and calming down and getting out of his weird bad boy phase in the process) Seth begs him to rejoin all of the time. He knows Toffee as a great military leader but Toffee spends most of his time curled up in his room reading into the night (✨insomnia✨) or breaking into Butterfly Castle to borrow more books. They hardly interact during this time.

After his time as a historian, Toffee is compelled to rejoin the army/war effort and moves up the ranks to eventually become the general we know he as. When the invitation comes for Comet’s banquet, Seth decidedly doesn’t want to attend. Toffee overhears and volunteers to go in his place. Seth has one rule: No harm is to come to the queen.

This is where I get to the point where he blatantly disrespects Seth’s instructions: He kills Comet. While decidedly NOT a primary or even important reason why he did it, a small very tiny microscopic part of Toffee did it specifically because Seth told him not to, and Toffee thinks he can handle things on his own.

Well… when Toffee returns to Septarsis humiliated with a missing finger, Seth. Is. Pissed. He KNEW this would do nothing but blow up in their faces and refuses to hear any of Toffee’s rationale for doing it, no matter how valid. He scolds Toffee harsher than he ever has before and blows up at him for this. By the end of the argument, Toffee is sick of and through with Seth and right then and there vows to leave Septarsis and never come back. Toffee does just that.

And… yeah. To be very frank, the relationship very complicated. Toffee can hardly stand him, but also Seth is probably one of his biggest influences at the same time. Toffee respects him as a leader of their civilization and as a diplomat, but has been known to forge his own path and blatantly disrespect his orders if Toffee deems his own ideas better (not ALL of them, Comet is the one notable instance of this). They both want monsters to be vindicated for all of the suffering they’ve been put through, but Seth sees Mewmans as the problem while Toffee sees magic as the problem.

I don’t know if this post fully encapsulates the true dynamic. This is an example of me trying to explain a dynamic that would be much better when I eventually show it… not sure if any post could ever do the story justice… but oh well.

But yeah I suggest keeping in tune. This is the rundown of their dynamic but it’ll be better when they actually interact in the AU itself 🤞

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Man, I’m never completely happy with how I draw these two, no matter how many times I do it. But practice makes improvement ig 🤷‍♀️

Anyway, playing with designs. Will be playing with colors too. Trying to fully encapsulate my vision for the Kardona brother and sister

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Hey, got any thoughts about Seth?

Oh, do I ever!!

Seth is an incredibly fascinating, dominant, and looming presence in the Magic Book of Spells with the potential to be one of the most intriguing characters in the entirely of SVTFOE… that was tragically underutilized, slapped in the face, and is who I believe to be the source of the biggest missed potential in the entirety of canon.

But I do not trust the writers at all to have handled him in the show proper.

The Septarians are notoriously treated like absolute dirt. Any and all of the Septarians we meet have either been humiliated, turned into a joke, villainized beyond any humanity, and overall treated awfully. They’re portrayed as this unfeeling, violent, monster species with no (biological? cultural?) ability to forgive or forget the countless atrocities the Mewmans committed against innocent people. GEEZ, It’s not like the Septarians have enhanced longevity and experience time differently than almost EVERY OTHER SPECIES ON MEWNI with most of them FIRST HAND experiencing the atrocities other species of monsters and ESPECIALLY Mewmans see as “bygone eras of the past!!”

And even with the book alone, Seth is also lumped into this stereotype, and may be one of the worst offenders. Globgor can’t stand him and has intense bias against him (I know he talked about “Septarians” but my god we all know he means Seth to some degree. Seth is very clearly a prominent figure if not the leader of the Septarians and he’s pictured/alluded to twice in Eclipsa’s chapter), bitch Crescenta smeared his name into the DIRT in a rigged election campaign and destroyed his reputation, and Comet refused to take him seriously whatsoever (but then again it’s Comet so what are we really expecting??). He was even on the Magic High Commission’s radar, labeled as an “extremist” (which just about anything is labeled “extreme” in the MHC’s eyes so they’re not reliable narrators). He’s spat upon and repeatedly villainized. He gets no breaks or even a glimpse of humanity and everyone in the fandom after the book came out was hyping him up as this huge villain.

So, yeah, I don’t think the show would have bothered to give him any humanity or depth if he was introduced in the show proper and would have made egregiously worse the show’s already bad problem of making monsters, the historically marginalized and colonized group of people, the bad guys. (Seriously, Meteora wasn’t a “real” threat until she was revealed to be half monster. That makes me frustrated.)

I love Seth. I think he would’ve had amazing potential if put in the right hands. There’s so much to do with him and I’m mostly glad he’s been left alone so fans can interpret him in any way they want.

Now… what are my opinions and headcanons about him? What’s the story I’ve concocted?

Thankfully Seth is a character I can talk about without worrying about AU spoilers… mostly (thank god).

In my mind, Seth is someone who actually didn’t see the Great Monster Massacre first hand, hatching about 200 years afterwards (due to my timeline and how I’ve designed Septarian aging). But that doesn’t mean whatsoever that he hasn’t seen the atrocities of Mewmans. In fact, he’s been put in several situations where— while not Moe levels of genocide— he has seen the cruelest and most inhumane levels of Mewman aggression against monsters. He’s a victim of it first hand and spent 80+ years through torture after being ripped away from his homeland before finally uprising against it with his sister (oh yeah he has a sister in my AU)

He is someone who wholeheartedly earned the respect and adoration of his people. He was a leader that they wanted, not because of blood or any ties to the throne he had. (He’s by blood the Prince of Septarsis, but by the time he came back to Septarsis not many people remembered him since he had changed so much). He completely changed the governmental system and put Septarsis into its golden age.

Now this is what may get me in trouble, but stick with me… I don’t think the reputation he’s acquired is completely unfounded. YES the Mewmans and MHC are incredibly biased and we can’t take what they say at face value, but some stereotypes have some truth to them. It’s way overexaggerated, but Seth is someone who I see as extremely trigger happy in his youth.

While a great leader and delegate, he can be incredibly rash and actively seeks violence against Mewmankind. Never Solaria or Moe levels of genocide… but if Mewmans happened to disappear one day he’d be over the moon. This makes him a fun foil for Toffee’s mother in my AU, Mylanie, who’s someone who strives to end the conflict and seek lasting peace.

In the early days he was active in battle and loved fighting against his adversaries. In fact, I find the idea of Seth being the one to kill Solaria— specifically beheading her with his own hands— fascinating and I LOVE IT. He’s not afraid to get messy when protecting monsters or his homeland, and the stories about his violence is NOT unfounded. If anyone is perpetuating ideas about Septarian stereotypes, it’s our buddy Seth.

But here’s the important distinction, he is not going out of his way hurting innocent people. He’s not this bloodthirsty monster who’s trying to commit genocide, he’s not Solaria, he’s just someone who sees violence as the answer and thinks peace is a waste of time.

It wasn’t until the election that his priorities changed and he actually calmed down.

The smear campaign was a huge blow. It really got him to think and consider how his actions were affecting monsters as a whole but especially his own people. He knows how much influence he has over how his people are perceived… and that’s when he pulled back. He was still active, don’t get me wrong, and got along diplomatically with the few surviving monster civilizations, but he took a lot less of a role than he used to. He started thinking critically and cleverly instead of resorting to violence first and foremost. Peace with Mewmans was still firmly off the table though and is still that way to this day.

When Comet sent the invitation, he genuinely planned to ignore it. He had no intention of going to the banquet— as last time he played along with Mewman rules he got screwed— but did allow Toffee to be a representative after Toffee offered to go in his place.

Under one condition: No harm was to come to the Queen

And we see how that went…

I’d gladly go into his relationship/dynamic with Toffee but this post is long enough :). Maybe in another post!!

His “death” was a stunt to fully get him out of any Mewman drama, and he was especially glad he perpetuated that lie because of how pissed he was at Toffee after Comet’s death. He’s alive and well and still in charge of Septarsis, he’s just out of the public eye because everyone thinks he’s dead (except close allies).

Overall I see him as someone who was essentially what his reputation said he was until he got a huge ego blow and actually matured enough to stop being so trigger happy. He was always a great leader over Septarsis and did whatever it took to protect his people, but he had some growing up to do as well.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. My AU goes into him a lot deeper and really fleshes him out. He’s a four dimensional character with layers and depth to him. While he seems like a Mewman hating “radical” on the surface, he’s humanized and he has layers and reasonings for his beliefs and actions.

I just love Seth. A lot. He’s so silly. He’s so fascinating and I love that everyone has a different perspective of him.

Also he is Rasticore’s dad you can’t change my mind !!

Dude I could literally make a whole other post on him I love this character so much—

Anyways here’s Seth and his little sister Zarina I love them to bits <3

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Care to discuss Zarina?

HELL YEAH she’s my GIRLLL 👑

Princess Zarina Kardona of Septarsis, second hatched child of the former (now passed) Rulers of Septarsis, and unofficial second in charge of Septarsis after her older brother, the legendary Seth of Septarsis.

Gonna try and keep this brief-ish (this is not brief omfg I’m sorry this is so long)

Zarina spent all of her early childhood in Septarsis. She never travelled outside of it. Septarsis was all she ever knew.

Just like her brother, she’s seen the extent of the horrors of Mewmankind. She too was stolen from Septarsis and taken to the same place Seth was where they were both put under the worst circumstances for 89 years. (I’m intentionally being vague on the details of this)

Seth feels personally responsible to take care of his sister since he was 15 years older than her. Around the time they were taken there was a notable mental age difference (Zarina was 35 and Seth was 50, making them in Septarian aging the equivalent to 8 and 12 respectively), and even if the gap has been closed and they’re both basically the same mental age, he still carries with him that responsibility, even if she can take care of herself now.

^^^“Just don’t leave me alone wondering where you are” “I am stronger than you give me credit for”

Zarina in her current form had no chance to actually blossom until after those 89 years. She realized her identity and gave herself a new name in the middle of those 89 years, but due to their situation she was hard pressed to do anything about her physical appearance :(

Seth is endlessly supportive of his sister’s new name and her transition. He loves her to death.

She and Seth worked as a team (with the help of the other captured monster kids) to get out of their situation and eventually made it back to Septarsis, and she sobbed at the sight of her homeland in its dark age.

Because of the atrocities they both were subjected to, both Seth and Zarina have a close, almost unbreakable bond. Yes, they quarrel all the damn time and get on each other’s nerves, but they rarely keep anything from each other. If one of them did, let’s say the other would be crushed.

In situations where the siblings work together for a cause, Seth is the outspoken one who inspires crowds of people and gets everyone hyped. He can command an audience and be charismatic and win people over. Zarina, however, is a lot more introverted. She cares a lot more about interpersonal relationships. She’s the type to privately talk to people, ease their fears, and inspire hope individually. Seth will speak to the crowd, Zarina will speak to the person.

In those same situations they both work together on strategy, both offering their own unique perspectives but ultimately finding compromises.

Zarina was the one to give the final blow that killed the man who not only took over Septarsis and put their civilization into its dark age, but also orchestrated the murder of their parents. It was liberating.

Despite her calm, reserved, formal, and polite exterior, if you dare get on her bad side/make her angry she can get so much more threatening and violent than her brother. You do not want to piss this woman off.

Zarina is, to put it bluntly, sheltered as all hell to anything outside Septarsis and those 89 years. This makes her incredibly socially awkward. She carries with her a sense of grace and formality as the Princess of Septarsis, but that’s mainly because she doesn’t speak in front of people too much. If she’s confronted about anything she’ll freeze up and mutter something if she doesn’t know or otherwise. (This is why Seth was the chosen leader lol). Plus she’s also very introverted so she just prefers being alone or with a few close people in general.

Zarina is also, notoriously, a horrible liar. She may be able to keep a secret but finds it difficult to lie when confronted. This ties back to her social awkwardness. She could not lie to save her life, it’d be written all over her face.

She was the first person to actually hear Mylanie out about her peace ideology. She asked Mylanie privately to discuss her ideas. She put aside her own biases and experiences to listen deeply and intently to what Mylanie was trying to do, being one of the first people to realize how honest and earnest she really was about this whole thing. Zarina convinced Seth to hear her out too, sparking the friendship and bond between the three of them.

Zarina, despite her past, gains a nuanced opinion about the Mewman situation. This is when she withdrawals from firmly siding with her brother to something in the middle between him and Mylanie.

Zarina finds herself as the awkward middleman between her extroverted pessimistic brother and their extroverted optimistic friend, Mylanie, as the introverted realist who calms them down when things gets too heated. She’s kind of like the referee which I think is hilarious

Mylanie was the one to finally coax Zarina out of her shell, opening her mind to the various cultures amoungst the different Monsters and even Mewmans. Seth was a lot more well travelled as the Supreme Lord, so Mylanie got to be her personal guide to the outside world.

Being around Seth and Mylanie for so long finally influenced her to be more outspoken and develop her skills in leadership and delegation. They inspire her.

She hates the whole courting thing because she knows it disrespects Mylanie’s boundaries. She always angrily tells Seth to quit it.

Like Seth, Zarina similarly loves Torrence (aka Toffee) very much. She isn’t as outwardly affectionate because of how reserved she is, but shows her appreciation in little ways that mean a lot (she basically allows him free access to the Septarian library, for example)

When Mylanie passed away, just like Seth and Toffee, she was devastated. Seth avoided confronting his grief by piling himself into the war effort and Toffee had Eclipsa to lift his spirits, but Zarina had basically no one. She was alone in her grief and fell back into the cycle of isolation.

The first time she stepped outside after Mylanie’s passing was when she confronted Eclipsa and lost her arm. Rasticore created a prototype robotic arm (that was later improved by an actual engineer…) for her to use as a prosthetic that she greatly appreciates. And because of this Seth doesn’t let her go anywhere without a soldier by her side.

Zarina and her nephew are very close.

Zarina, unlike Seth, really values people’s boundaries. With that being said, she doesn’t put any extra pressure on Toffee after she and Seth take him in and leaves him be for the most part, but is always there with open arms if he needs her. She never refers to Toffee in any familial way— she knows how he responds to that *cough*Seth calling him son*cough*— even if he’s the closest thing to a son she’s ever had. She loves him with everything she has, but he’d never guess it since she rarely feels like she can express it.

Toffee’s bad boy phase gave her grey hairs she lost her temper with his attitude and cockiness so much.

Zarina offered to go as the representative for Septarsis when Comet sent out the banquet invitation before Toffee offered.

After the Comet situation and Toffee and Seth’s fight, Zarina tried to talk to him one on one. However, Toffee was far too angry that the two of them ended up having their own quarrel before he left.

I’ve alluded to this, but Zarina and Seth were both devastated when news of Toffee’s death finally reached them. Zarina uncharacteristically acted impulsively and wanted to send out the army to give Moon and Star a taste of real Septarian aggression for murdering one of their most prominent figures. Seth, on the other hand, despite being just as furious, had to seriously talk her down and explain that it’s not smart to rush into things and waste Septarsis’s resources. It took everything in her power to not take action against the Butterflies, but did back down.

I feel like there may be this underlying inferred inferiority complex, because of how well known Seth is and all of his accomplishments, but I wanna make it known that Zarina holds no animosity towards him. Sure, she’s a bit disappointed that no one really knows who she is, but also simultaneously relieved. Again, she’s not the outspoken type, so it works in her favor if she can chill in the shadows.

Sometimes though people do mistake her for Seth’s wife which… makes both of them fly off the handle with vocal disgust for fairly obvious reasons. That’s the hard part about not being known, but she manages.

WOWOWOW I loved talking about my girl Zarina she’s so fun I love her.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

So, what do you think is the story behind the darkest spell?

It’s actually pretty simple in terms of my AU’s story and timeline

Eclipsa was in a state of complete despair and agony after the death of her mother. Sure, Solaria was awful and their relationship was really rocky to say the least of it, but that’s still her mother. Not to mention a horrible relationship with a man she didn’t love that was put in place by her late mother. She was in such a state of grief that she was prone to suggestion and irrational thought.

Globgor had been telling her all of these awful things about the Septarians and updating her on the conditions of the war. Globgor decidedly really despises the Septarians and the Kardonas specifically (aka Seth and Zarina) and his biases really informed her perspective (despite her ((now dwindling)) friendship with Toffee)

But what really sent her over the edge was two years later when she it was finally revealed to her that Seth was the one who killed her mother and the descriptions she received about the exact means of execution… which I don’t know if I want to reveal the graphic and gorey details of… let’s just say he found out what she had written about the Septarians in her chapter…

Anyways, the constant pain and grief she was experiencing sent her over the edge and The Darkest Spell was her retaliation against the Septarians for Seth’s actions. She tested it on a few Septarian warriors, but once Seth was informed, Zarina went out to confront the Queen on the battlefield herself. That’s when Eclipsa blew off her arm and sent the whole army retreating. Thankfully no other Mewmans or other types of monsters were present, keeping the illusion of indestructibility and “immortality” alive and well in the minds of Mewmans and Monsters alike.

Eclipsa did regret making the spell, but never really voiced that to anyone (or at least hasn’t yet). She knows how drastic it was and that it was made when she was in a horrible headspace and hates it for that reason alone. The only reason she gave Moon the spell with the contract was admittedly for her own freedom to reunite with her family.

Eclipsa being in a state of turmoil and agony doesn’t excuse the making of the spell, but it at least explains it.

Also fun fact Seth never allowed Zarina to go anywhere and especially outside of Septarsis without a personal bodyguard so he wouldn’t lose her too.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

so, what is the political system in Septarsis? Historically, I mean?

The short and sweet is this

Septarsis changes political systems based on what’s needed at the time

But here’s the whole thing :)

For most of its history, after becoming a united civilization, Septarsis was a democracy. No one really had more power than anyone else.

Sure, there was an elected Council/Assembly of about 15, but they didn’t hold much true, dominant power nor were any of them a true figurehead. There were terms and limits on how long each individual could serve, and anyone could become one if they were voted in. The Assembly mainly served as the people who ran organizations to run the civilization and came up with laws that everyone would vote on, serving to protect the minority. They valued the voices of everyone, even the tiniest of voices, and the Assembly proved to be a failsafe so minorities would be protected. It wasn’t foolproof since everyone did get a vote to pass new laws and decrees, but it worked enough. The Assembly also worked to keep diplomatic ties between the other civilizations and maintain peace with outsiders. But what’s important is that decision-making was civilization-wide.

But that all changed when the Mewmans came.

Since Septarsis is so guarded, they weren’t initial victims of the land stealing, but they were quickly made aware of it. Different monster civilizations had different systems, but even the other democratic-like monsters sent someone to represent themselves and jointly confront this new “Queen” about her… actions. After a lot of back-and-forth, Septarsis decided on a young woman from The Assembly, Adina Kardona, to represent Septarsis.

The monsters tried to calmly reason with Queen Moe about her actions and tried to work out some sort of agreement and land arrangements, but we all know that failed spectacularly. Septarsis lost a LOT of people in the resulting Great Monster Massacre (The GMM as a whole knocked out 60% of the monster population; I’m not sure about Septarsis and their stats yet). Their regenerative abilities only aided them for so long because Moe found a way to counter it and make them killable (it’s a very specific spell that’s long gone, but its effects are still very present within Septarsis).

Anyway, after this devastating genocide, they really needed a strong leader to guide them out of the tragedy of their losses. Adina proved herself to be a strong defensive force that helped prevent a lot more casualties during the genocide itself. She was unanimously chosen to lead the restoration of Septarsis. She was declared the Sovereign (since the Septarians notoriously hate the terms King/Queen).

She reigned for 220 years with her husband and eventually had two children, Seth and (who would eventually become) Zarina. However, the Septarians love democracy, and assumed that her reign would merely be temporary— or at the very least more democratic. Many Septarians still adored her and wanted to keep her as their leader, remembering her fearless and selfless deeds during the GMM (and she was a good enough leader), but the less democratic Septarsis became, the more groups convened and started to get restless. It didn’t help that she was very isolationist and wanted to steer clear of Mewman conflict and wasn’t as active as she could’ve been in Septarsis itself. This increasing tension snapped when one of Adina’s former lovers schemed and plotted to overthrow them. He convened with a group of Mewmans, bringing them to Septarsis and having them kill the elder Kardonas during a weak point. He also had Seth and Zarina taken as captives. Once the job was done, he had every Mewman executed so Septarsis’s location remained hidden.

This enters Septarsis into its dark age under a brutal dictatorship. Many Septarians flee from their homeland because this man, frankly, does not care about the wellbeing of the people at all. He only cares about power, prestige, and revenge. It’s awful. It was not until 209 years later that Seth and Zarina gathered enough of a revolt and killed him. Seth has to pick up the pieces and restore Septarsis to its former glory. He is unanimously proclaimed a hero.

Under Supreme Lord Seth, Septarsis flourishes. He reinstates many of the democratic elements from eons past, including re-instating the Assembly (except he refers to it as the Septarian High Council). The SHC works similarly to how the Assembly did before; it’s just that Seth is the figurehead, with Zarina right underneath him. The SHC and legislation rotate every 25 years, but terms themselves last about 50 or so. They also must be elected to be able to join, but they can come from anywhere.

Seth makes it known that if the Septarians are ever dissatisfied with him as a ruler, he will step down and give way to a new leader or even allow Septarsis to fully return to its true democracy. However, that hasn’t happened. With the Mewman situation at the forefront of everyone’s mind, and a leader who actively does things about it, he’s still held up to the same status. He’s a great leader, far better than his mother, and compromises with his people if they’re in any way dissatisfied. He plays an active role in everything he can and puts power primarily in the hands of the people. Seth can’t just make rules whenever, it has to go through the population and SHC.

He’s a great leader, no matter his own personal views or what Crescenta’s smear campaign wanted to perpetuate. There’s a reason he only lost by a small margin during that rigged election. His reputation as a fair and just leader has spread far beyond Septarsis.

It’s this weird mix. You have Seth and his family with royal-esque titles, you have an elected council of people (who Seth leads) who pass ordinances and laws after voting, and the people themselves not only have opportunities to join the SHC but also are directly involved in voting for things. It’s closest to a republic I guess…. except the leader doesn’t need to be consistently voted in nor does he have limited terms and has been ruling for centuries atp because he’s just the best choice for the job and no one else comes close to competing with him. It functions well, but there’s no clear definition or label for the type of system they have.

I hope that explains it.. somewhat. It’s definitely not full encompassing because there’s a lot of aspects and roles in governments and political systems, but that’s the jist of it, an overview if you will.

Idk how clearly I explained everything but I’ve been looking over this all day and I think this encompasses my vision for the most part.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Seth: Supreme Lord Seth Kardona ought to cause quite a stir in the abbey

Seth: The gays love me, and I love them!

Seth: Shout out to my trans sister Zarina, who is gay!!

Zarina:

Zarina: You’re gay too, Seth.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Oh, yeah, just remembered that Toffee doesn't seem to have a dad, is that important?

Very.

Toffee’s other parent is an enigma.

Mylanie doesn’t talk about them. At all. Toffee has brought up “the identity of his father” multiple times but she avoids and dodges the question. He never managed to coax their identity out of her before she died.

Seth has no idea, he just knows it’s not him. He wants to know, but Mylanie never told him. He’s pressed that she went out and had a kid while he was trying to court her, but since he grew to adore Toffee he let it slide. If Toffee asks, Seth pleads for him to wiggle it out of Mylanie somehow.

Zarina similarly offers zero results. Going dead silent and awkwardly shrugging her shoulders whenever asked. Toffee figures that she is just as unaware as her brother— she’s just less dramatic about it. After all, Zarina is a lot more formal and reserved than him.

It’s assumed that the only two people who know of Toffee’s other parent is Mylanie and the other parent themselves. No idea what happened to them, but Toffee assumes that the lack of any response is due to some sort of tragedy, death, or a bad breakup.

No one recalls anyone being particularly close to Mylanie either. The only people she’s close with are Seth and Zarina along with the multitude of followers who follow her peacemaker ideology— and it’s assumed the parent comes from the latter— since Mylanie makes it very clear that it was not and never would’ve been Seth. But, granted, Mylanie is very vocal and well known amongst all of Septarsis. They could’ve come from anywhere.

Sometimes Toffee’s lack of a father is brought up to him, particularly during his teenage years whenever him and his then girlfriend were fighting and she drew a low blow with a “Why’d your dad leave you?” or similar.

Toffee’s come to terms with the fact that he doesn’t know who his other parent is. He was grateful he at least had a mother who adored him in every sense of the word. Would he still want to know? Absolutely. But unless this figure is still alive, finds him, and tells him… it’s a mystery.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Clearly, Zarina called it when they were kids and the sibling rivalry was just so strong he refused to admit it for several hundred years.

YES. ABSOLUTELY. CANON.

They went through hell and back and started a revolution together yet the sibling rivalry is a stronger force than even that💪

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

So, Seth's romatic relationships, how do those look?

Non-existent. As long as he stays stubbornly stuck in his glass closet he’s perpetually single.

He’s really only had one actual romantic relationship but that was during those 80 or so terrible years I mentioned in his backstory post where he saw the worst of Mewmans and was horribly tortured. Since the place they were at mainly had kids and teens (and Seth and Zarina were the only Septarians) that no doubt ended tragically.

I could claim that as the reason Seth is in such denial about his own sexuality, but the joke of Seth being so insistent that he’s not gay is so funny to me. I don’t even know if I want to say he has internalized homophobia because he is endlessly supportive of his lesbian sister and bisexual son (Rasticore). He just really doesn’t want to admit he’s gay, despite Zarina constantly calling out his queer romantic and sexual history and telling him point blank that the closet is glass.

And the fact that the individual who produced Rasticore with Seth eventually transitioned is not helping his “I’m not gay!” argument.

His lack of romantic relationships most likely isn’t due to aromanticism (at least not yet. That possibility isn’t completely off the table.), he’s just stubborn as hell.

Plus — and this is no doubt the actual most important reason he hasn’t had many romantic relationships — he’s way more focused on his role as Supreme Lord, his people, and the conflict with Mewmanity and the Butterflies.

Now that he’s not too active on the Mewman conflict front, if he ever decides to FINALLY come to the realization that he’s gay as hell a possibility for romance is a lot more feesable.

And Zarina would totally pull an “I told you so” on her brother. She’s not one to gloat but she can and will with this.

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Aw, man, any thoughts about Rasticore?

YES HE’S MY GUYY

Ah yes, another example of a the whole running themes with Septarians being this “certain way.” Though, interestingly, unlike Seth and Toffee, he’s not as villainized as they are. Instead he’s literally just turned into the butt of a joke… which still isn’t great.

But I already kind of went into the show stereotyping Septarians as X and X in my Seth post, this is solely about Rasticore my boy and my thoughts on this dude!!

TL;DR: I love him a lot he is way too underrated.

Here’s some headcanons with thoughts mixed in there. (Though admittedly this is basically just Septarsis-Dragonfly AU Lore… but as long as it doesn’t impact the progression of the story it’s fine💀)

Rasticore is Seth’s (only and biological) son. He’s a result of a little fling that was mainly orchestrated to hatch a potential heir. Seth is a (very deeply closeted who’ll scoff if you even mention the notion despite his history of “flings” and “relationships” with men) 100% gay man, and even Rasticore is surprised by his own very existence.

Rasticore is older than Toffee by two decades (it’s not that long for Septarians they’re relatively close in age).

Seth and Rasticore have good standing and a good relationship, but they’re not particularly close

Rasticore IS however, extremely close with his Aunt, Princess Zarina, and handmade her robotic arm when Eclipsa permanently severed it with her darkest spell

The only reason he doesn’t outrank Toffee is because he not only doesn’t have the leadership skills, but also cares a lot less about the war effort than Toffee does. Seth is not the type to give Rasticore a higher rank for the pure sake of being his son, he has to earn it like everyone else. He just particularly didn’t put the work in. The war didn’t spark his interest until the Comet situation

While he didn’t like Toffee for a while as a child/preteen, they became incredibly close in their teenager days and formed a trio with Toffee’s then girlfriend, Ericka. They distanced again after the trio split and didn’t become “close” again until around Comet’s reign. This is all despite the fact that they literally live with each other in the castle.

While Toffee was studying as a historian and planning his destroy magic plot, Toffee’s (now ex) nerdy engineer boyfriend, Favian, designed and crafted Rasticore’s famous dimensional chainsaw (using stolen dimensional scissors). He also made several tracking devices that Rasticore ends up using.

It was around this time that he met Heinous (aka Meteora). Yes, they absolutely 100% dated on and off for a while, keeping it on the down low as a casual thing.

When Toffee volunteered to go to Comet’s banquet, Seth insisted that Toffee take Rasticore with him. This is really where the two men bonded again after all those years.

After Comet’s death and Moon’s spell, he retreated back to Septarsis. It was there that he finally admitted to his father that he was tired of being a “prince” and wanted to instead forge his own path.

He left Septarsis shortly after Toffee, renouncing his title and changing his last name from Kardona to “Chaosus-Disastervaine”

He has both of his eyes and both of his arms, he just uses the gem and robotic arm to better conceal his identity. He doesn’t actually think anyone would recognize him as the “Prince of Septarsis,” but he has to make sure. He also alters his voice sometimes for this exact reason.

He was pretty shocked about Meteora’s true heritage (go figure), but what disturbed him the most was the fact that she not only was Eclipsa’s daughter (he was WELL AWARE of Toffee’s friendship and falling out with her) but also the fact she kind of bore a resemblance to the baby who ambushed their meeting and blasted Toffee in the fact that one time. THAT’S why he skedaddled so quick and broke up with her (only to be blasted into an arm again)

A small part of Rasticore being with the other assassins trying to take out Eclipsa was deeply personal. He knows firsthand that Eclipsa not only took off his Aunt’s arm and killed many other Septarians, but deeply deeply hurt one of his longest and closest friends. Out of everyone there he had the most reason to actually want her dead.

He’s still working at there to this day, but with the arrival of the Echo Creek humans they’re not very popular and business is very slow. Part of him wants to go find a new job, but he’s made friends there who he doesn’t want to leave behind.

Yeah honestly most of these is just his backstory from my AU 💀 whoopsies. It’s hard to separate the two sometimes I just kind of lump canon in with my AU. But yeah that’s the gist of it! I think Rasticore is real cool and he’s one of my absolute favorites.

But then again I stan every single Septarian in this show so I am a heavily biased party

(My favorite Rasticore scene by far)

[lil-oreo-crumbles]

Oh my gosh thank you!! (Sorry I write essays 😭). Sadly, that’s not even close to my entire AU, it’s incredibly long and complex and that’s just a sliver of backstory/a dynamic I felt wasn’t too critical to the plot (meaning no spoilers) that I could share freely.

To answer the question at hand…

Septarsis is a marshy swampland incredibly far from the center of Mewni, it’s a several days journey to make it to Butterfly Castle and back (if you don’t have dimensional scissors of course). It’s incredibly protected by dense forests and then their swampy and rough terrain + just how hot and humid it is, along with a large wall constructed by the Kardonas (Seth and Zarina’s parents) after the Great Monster Massacre (the territory stretches beyond the wall tho, and tbh you can tell you’re getting close to Septarsis the more humid/wet the air gets, which is usually a sign to gtfo). It’s nearly impossible to get there without aid from a Septarian (if you use dimensional scissors you’re as good as dead Septarians are FIERCELY defensive of their homeland). Only a few Mewmans have ever made it— with help from a Septarian of course— and they were promptly killed to keep the exact location a guarded secret. Its borders used to be more expansive, but the Mewmans did what the Mewmans do and stole it.

It’s one of the last remaining in-tact monster civilizations left on Mewni. There have always been a large variety of species of monster in the history of the dimension, but there were many established civilizations that reigned for Millenia before the Mewmans came. Only three major ones currently remain after the constant Mewman genocides and displacement and tearing apart of families and communities— Septarsis, the Avariuses/Kappas (Mostly because of Butterfly Protection), and the Cervuis (a civilization of deer-like monsters who have honed their own “magic” and are VERY close allies with Septarsis and have been since before Mewmans. They’re mainly forgotten about because they’re protected by Septarsis and stay out of any war).

After Toffee (and Rasticore, separately) leave, Seth had already faked his death. It’s assumed by monsterkind that Septarsis is in shambles— struggling to find leadership now that Seth is “dead” (forgetting that he literally has a sister??). But, if I’m being honest, monsterkind doesn’t really know the ins and outs of how the Septarians work… or at all… other than that they’re “aggressive fighters” with “extraordinary regenerative properties”. While Seth and Toffee, arguably the two most publicly prominent Septarians (they both publicly killed a Queen of Mewni), may seem like they (especially Seth) wear their cards on their sleeves, they actually keep them close to their chest.

Lots of the talk around Septarsis are folktales, stories passed down through generations, rumors, gossip, and unfortunately Mewman propaganda. Septarians are a tight lipped species and will buy into rumors if it serves a purpose (like how Septarians “are immortal”. They’re not, but if you ask one they’ll tell you “yes” (they’re lying)). Being feared by/intimidating Mewmans is a war strategy, and keeping their secrets/civilization/culture relatively unknown from even other monsters helps keep their reputation and ensures their safety. Only the Cervuis know the truth since they’re such close allies and friends.

With everything going on in Mewni especially after Moon scattered the monsters and humiliated their general, there was gossip about if the Septarians really were as “invincible” as everyone thought they were. They were taken less seriously than they were before, but it helps that this was during a time of relative “peace”. If this was during wartime this would be worrisome as the Septarians semi-rely on their reputation to keep them as feared (and safe and unknown and keep their borders safe) as they are.

That’s a huge reason why Seth was PISSED at Toffee for the Comet situation. Toffee was humiliated and Seth knows by now that the actions of one Septarian affects EVERYONE, since he was the Septarian who historically affected their reputation the most!!

During Star’s time Septarsis is just chilling and keeping to themselves. Most Septarians don’t leave Septarsis (Mewni is freaking cold compared to the humidity and Septarians culturally aren’t exactly known for much in terms of “layers of clothing”) and so that’s why there’s so few running around. They only really leave for war or diplomatic reasons, but even then the diplomacy was mostly Seth anyway and he’s “dead”.

Thankfully, the merging of Echo Creek and Mewni and creation of Mewni Creek hardly disturbed Septarsis and that side of the dimension as a whole. They were mostly just like “oh the sky is weird now” and carried on with their day. They’re still protected by their humidity, thick forest borders, rough terrain from the swamps, and the wall so they are still chilling 👍.

(I will say Zarina did want to send off an army to cause some major trouble for Moon and Star after she found out about Toffee’s death (she was devastated and blinded by rage), but Seth stopped her😭)

I hope that answers the question and thank you thank you thank you for the question :DD !!!!

can you discuss the relationship between Toffee and Seth

Absolutely!! I’d be happy to!!

Normally, I see Toffee and Seth being depicted with a relatively positive relationship. However, I don’t and have never really seen it that way.

The full story is under the cut, but the TL;DR is this: Toffee does not like Seth hardly at all. Seth sees Toffee as his own son and loves him to death, but Toffee cannot stand being “fathered” by him. As far as Toffee knows, he never had a father and Seth was DEFINITELY not his father, and gets so upset when Seth refers to him as “son”.

Despite Toffee not being able to stand him, he can and does acknowledge his great diplomacy skills and that he is the best leader for Septarsis. His beef is a lot more personal. He will admit with no hesitation that Seth would have made a great ruler for Monsterkind and is personally angered and offended just like everyone else about Crescenta’s smear campaign.

Toffee also unknowingly bought into a lot of his ideals over the course of his life, he just adjusted his angle and took different actions into trying to solve the same problem.

It’s a mix of frustration yet begrudging respect for him as the man who took him in after his mother’s death on Toffee’s end. On Seth’s end, it’s praise, adoration, and a very fatherly view he has on Toffee, despite how pissed he gets at a lot of Toffee’s actions over the course of his life (i.e., Comet and his whole embarrassing “Bad Boy” phase).

-

AU Story:

For some context, I may need to explain Seth and his relationship with Toffee’s mother in my AU, Mylanie Ambrose of Septarsis, because that’s where their rocky relationship really stems from.

When Seth took his rightful place as the Supreme Lord of Septarsis (he hates the term King), he completely tore apart the system the previous (very corrupt) ruler (who brought Septarsis into its dark age) had been using for the two-hundred or so years he was in charge, and replaced it with his own system. Part of that system involves a rotating legislation of representatives (a council of sorts) every fifty or so years (can vary and there are exceptions). The Septarians would get restless with the same person in power for the centuries they live, so Seth ensures that there are new faces and new voices. No matter how good of a Supreme Lord or beloved by the people be is, he will never put just himself or his sister Zarina in charge of decision making.

With that said, Mylanie, a dreamer who strongly believes in a future of peace and harmony with Mewmankind in the future, joins the council. She is incredibly passionate and a very loud advocate for peace, catching Seth’s attention. The two form a friendship outside of politics and get along, but they are fiercely on opposite sides when it pertains to the Mewman problem. Mylanie wants to make peace with a future queen while Seth thinks war is one of their only possibilities. Zarina is the awkward middleman trying to find a truce between their fiercely opposed sides.

Seth is decidedly a gay man, but because he’s so deep in denial and closeted he mistakes the thrill and passion he gets from debating her as… romantic feelings (whoops) and starts offering his hand to make her the Lady of Septarsis. She always refuses.

Then Mylanie has Toffee. (His real name is Torrence but I’m gonna call him Toffee for simplicity)

So, essentially, Toffee’s exposure to Seth for his entire early life is through the eyes of his mother and the debates she has with him. He kind of sits back and watches the two of them go at it.

Seth is a lot more of a brute who values a good soldier at this point so he (playfully) critiques Mylanie for not teaching her son any defense skills or anything to do with fighting and instead just lets him “read books and frolic all the time”. He also jokingly teases her for how “girly” Toffee looks/acts (the long hair with flowers/flower crowns and his general soft/shy demeanor). Toffee, despite his young age, is very aware of all of this, along with the courting issue Seth still brings up every once in a while. He can get really protective of her.

But Seth absolutely tried to bond with him… and he considers trying to teach him how to fight “bonding”. Toffee’s not really into the whole war (he IS raised by his mother after all) and doesn’t really reciprocate.

When the Solaria’s situation happens and Mylanie passes away, Toffee is taken in by Seth and Zarina permanently. Seth really steps up and makes an effort to form a bond with Toffee, but he’s grieving really bad and Seth trying to make nice really hits him the wrong way.

While Toffee is friends with Eclipsa, Seth eventually finds out and discourages him from spending anymore time with her, but Toffee refuses to listen to him and still spends time with the princess regardless. He sees Seth as trying to take away the one thing he still has in this world. Seth tries to insist that the Mewmans and the world they’ve created are dark, selfish, and cruel, and Eclipsa is no different. Toffee fights with him on this, but it isn’t until the two friends have their tragic fallout that Toffee admits that Seth was right about Eclipsa and he should have listened to him.

Regardless of Seth being “proven right”, this still doesn’t make Toffee like him. During his bad boy teenage years he’s blatantly disrespectful, haughty, and an overall pain for Seth and Zarina to deal with. However, this is actually when Toffee starts to buy into Seth’s ideals. Toffee is unaware of just how much he’s starting to agree with Seth about his stances on Mewmanity, but his specific issue is on the magic they use. (If you ask him at this stage about it he’ll tell you you’re insane for the suggestion alone.)

Despite his bad attitude, Toffee’s natural talent in leadership and combat causes Seth to favor him a lot. Toffee rises the ranks quickly and becomes increasingly popular amongst the troops and the army. Toffee actually (begrudgingly) accepts advice and one on one training from Seth, which adds to his skill set.

But what Toffee HATES is how much Seth starts “fathering” him. Seth refers to Toffee as his son, and Toffee has to keep reminding him that he is decidedly NOT his son and NEVER will be, no matter how much Seth wants to think so. This ties back to Toffee’s lingering frustration over the whole “courting” he used to attempt with his mother.

When Toffee takes a break from the army to focus on studying Mewmans, magic, and their history, (and calming down and getting out of his weird bad boy phase in the process) Seth begs him to rejoin all of the time. He knows Toffee as a great military leader but Toffee spends most of his time curled up in his room reading into the night (✨insomnia✨) or breaking into Butterfly Castle to borrow more books. They hardly interact during this time.

After his time as a historian, Toffee is compelled to rejoin the army/war effort and moves up the ranks to eventually become the general we know he as. When the invitation comes for Comet’s banquet, Seth decidedly doesn’t want to attend. Toffee overhears and volunteers to go in his place. Seth has one rule: No harm is to come to the queen.

This is where I get to the point where he blatantly disrespects Seth’s instructions: He kills Comet. While decidedly NOT a primary or even important reason why he did it, a small very tiny microscopic part of Toffee did it specifically because Seth told him not to, and Toffee thinks he can handle things on his own.

Well… when Toffee returns to Septarsis humiliated with a missing finger, Seth. Is. Pissed. He KNEW this would do nothing but blow up in their faces and refuses to hear any of Toffee’s rationale for doing it, no matter how valid. He scolds Toffee harsher than he ever has before and blows up at him for this. By the end of the argument, Toffee is sick of and through with Seth and right then and there vows to leave Septarsis and never come back. Toffee does just that.

And… yeah. To be very frank, the relationship very complicated. Toffee can hardly stand him, but also Seth is probably one of his biggest influences at the same time. Toffee respects him as a leader of their civilization and as a diplomat, but has been known to forge his own path and blatantly disrespect his orders if Toffee deems his own ideas better (not ALL of them, Comet is the one notable instance of this). They both want monsters to be vindicated for all of the suffering they’ve been put through, but Seth sees Mewmans as the problem while Toffee sees magic as the problem.

I don’t know if this post fully encapsulates the true dynamic. This is an example of me trying to explain a dynamic that would be much better when I eventually show it… not sure if any post could ever do the story justice… but oh well.

But yeah I suggest keeping in tune. This is the rundown of their dynamic but it’ll be better when they actually interact in the AU itself 🤞