#same thing happened when jevil happened

[leojrthetanooki]

y'know i can see hailey anne posting so much about spamton to the point that she gets blocked by treetter of all people because they just can't see anything but spamton reposts by hailey on their timeline... no wait y'know what they wouldn't be reposts they would all be posts by her because she just likes spamton that much

...she would singlehandedly crash kainet by her sheer spamton hyperfixation alone

[candleholder-dev]

so since ralsei dissapears leaving nothing but his clothes when down.. what happens to jevil and spamton? same thing? what do they look like?? :D

like this:

jevil has a death animation where he floats (shadow got removed later for convenience):

i decided it would be kinda boring to follow the ralsei death animation where only the clothes remain, but who knows, maybe this will change (for jevil only)

[deltarunebt]

Well, we've gotten plenty of Spamton (which is wonderful amazing showstopping incredible-), but for the sake of fairness... What, er, changes Jevil?

When Frisk meets him, he seems genuinely concerned about the King, but judging by the fact that 1) you said he (like Spam when we first meet him) hasn't had a Fourth Wall Moment™️ yet, and 2) he used his spot in the meme to encourage overthrowing the government...

Does Jevil just find a shadow crystal? Or meet that certain Mystery Man? Or does something else happen that sends him down a weird path?

Aha my bias shows a fair bit... admittedly, its also just because I have a better grasp on Chapter 2 than I do chapter 1, though. There's more to work with and that makes it easier to work with!

As for Jevil, no, nothing like that, its actually pretty simply just.. his view of King changes over the course of his adventure with Frisk. Or, I suppose, his opinion of King changes when he gets the reality check that no, King isn't going to make an 'exception' for Frisk and is Super going to Kill Them, and also that King considers Jevil a traitor for siding with Frisk and orders for him to be locked up while he deals with the Lightner and their 'Pet Flower' .<.

Jevil is aware that King is behaving irrationally and is concerned, yes, and he believe at first his job as Jester means he needs to fix it through 'cheering up' King, more or less. Eventually he realizes that that just... isn't going to work. Of course, Spade King isn't just straight up evil, he does believe he's in the right, but just like in base Deltarune, its not something Frisk or Jevil can just change his mind on. And Jevil is especially driven to make things right in that his naïve belief that Frisk will be able to change King's mind leads Lancer to ALSO believe that, which gets Lancer in trouble (same as it does in base Deltarune.)

I've kind of been referencing the song 'The Court Jester' in my head for the mentality turn Jevil has, albeit less... intense than that song sort of implies. Jevil goes from 'kids cartoon idea of what a court jester is supposed to be' to an Actual Court Jester- that is, someone who's job is to bully the King and call him a dunce to keep his ego in check.

Jevil actually doesn't get a fourth-wall moment at all (at least, not within my current outline of things), which arguably means he's more stable than Spamton is here... albeit Spamton's fourth-wall moment doesn't actually fully sink in for him, it's just sort of a Glimpse into something more that triggers a full-scale mental break down because he's kind of been teetering on the edge for awhile. Guy already has a puppet complex, having literal strings attached to him as NEO didn't uh- help, with that.

[cartoonishlyincorrect]

ok i know im late to the deltarune theory train by like, years now. but also I'm on a kick atm and have a few things I need to throw to the wind before I forget

Pretty sure this is widely agreed upon but Darkners are (in the light world at least) things that Lightners discard. The abandoned classroom hasn't been touched for years, all the Darkners you meet are represented in some way by items found within, and the secret boss is, even within the confines of that abandoned room, even further neglected: the Joker card is almost always the one removed from the deck, and Jevil's locked underneath Card Castle. In Cyber City it's popups and adblockers and long-forgotten malware.

Darkners are the result of Lightners discarding objects.

At the end of an Undertale No Mercy route, the first human confronts the player and encourages them to "erase this pointless world and move onto the next." I'm inclined to be suspicious abt this being "moving onto the next *timeline*" because that only occurs when the player sits on a black screen for, what, ten minutes? It feels like a concession more than anything, so what is this next world? And who are they talking to, specifically?

The Gaster followers are their own can of worms, but I want to focus specifically on Goner Kid, whose dialogue revolves around a "world where everything is exactly the same except you don't exist" before encouraging you to just forget it.

What happens if a Lightner themselves is discarded?

Every soul theory I've seen kinda falls apart at the end of Chapter 2 where Kris, independent of the player, opens a fountain regardless of whether a regular or Snowgrave playthrough was completed. The only conclusion I can come to is that Kris doesn't care about *what* happens during a run, just that it *continues* happening

Do you know what happens before you begin to tell a story? Do you know what happens after the conclusion? Where does everything go in those moments? Does it all just slip between the cracks? Does it disappear? Can it be brought back?

Maybe it can be true that the player is Kris's soul and also that Kris resents the player's actions because they're not their own. We only have their background as far as we're told it exists, and what does a background provide, really? If nothing else, I'd wager at least characterization and justification of actions

If I tell you a story and let you know that a character has a soul, does it become real in that moment, or has it always been that way? Does the story begin for us, but continue for everyone else in this world I've made for you?

Are we interrupting something?

What if you woke up one day knowing damn well that, despite everyone around you saying that this woman is your mother, this is your home, this is your school, these are the people you have been going to class with and this is your town and this is... you know it isn't true. And it can't be true, because you only began existing this morning, deep down you know it, as much as it pains you to admit to yourself, you understand at your very core that this existence you are living only started that morning and no one else seems to acknowledge it.

And then something else starts moving for you, puppeting you around, with some indiscernible mission in mind. If it stops, you won't exist anymore. You know this, you don't know how, but you do. It doesn't seem malevolent, not yet at least, it just wants to poke around your neighborhood, meet your friends, take you on an adventure.

It wants to understand your world. It wants adventure.

Something's just here for a story, it seems.

You go to watch a play. The curtains fall. Where do the characters, not the actors, the characters, go? Are they all dead now?

You go to watch a movie. The credits roll. Are they all dead now?

You go to read a book. The pages end. Are they all dead now?

You go to play a game.

You'll slip between the cracks if they stop looking.

[undertalebabbleblog]

UTDR Holiday Newsletter Musings

Heya, Pup here, and I'm back again to talk about how Toby Fox has once more driven me insane.

Usually the newsletters have a black background and white text, but the background is white this time! Thematically appropriate, I suppose.

*glances outside at the warm summer morning*

Or, well, it's thematically appropriate if you don't live in the southern hemisphere lol.

Toby has a Bluesky account now, apparently.

...Yep, that belongs to Toby, alright.

And he even made an archive of the roast chicken posts "in case Blueski flies away". Excellent, those are exceedingly important, we wouldn't want them to be lost.

(Skipping over the stuff about the GameMaker updates and bugs because while it's interesting it's not what I'm here to talk about.)

*(...) *(...Pup slowly puts down the microwave they were holding and steps away.) *(All the settings on the microwave say 'spaghetti' anyway. It's unsure if that would work on frozen dogs.)

But in all seriousness, the reviews Toby shared seem pretty solid, and we are definitely, 100000000000% getting chapters 3 and 4 in 2025. I am incredibly excited and can't wait to see what the new chapters have in store.

(I wonder when they'll come out...? Place your bets, everyone! My money's on Undertale's 10th anniversary, since Toby has a habit of releasing and announcing important stuff on or around the anniversaries.)

We also have some text from chapter 4 that has been translated into Japanese. I cannot read Japanese, so unfortunately I don't have anything to say on that part, but I do have some things to say about some of the bits I can read!

"Inferno,&Inferno!" We don't have any context on who's saying this or what it might be about. My first thought is Dante's Inferno, given how much religious symbolism is in these games, but I'm probably wrong lol.

Lancer: "Susie, can you enrich my enclosure?" Susie: "Uhh, I can punch a hole in drywall and hide toys inside." Lancer: "Thank you. Someday, I will do the same for you..." This COULD just be about Lancer's room. Or it could imply that Lancer gets trapped somehow? Idk.

"To by, or not to by?" I don't have much to say here. But it's a Shakespeare reference, so I'm legally obligated to point that out.

Berdly: "Listen. It disgusts me to say this, but... as an ACT. OF. CHARITY. I will let you... Be the breeze under my wings. You... Me. Festival." My guess is that he's saying this to Susie. If so, Noelle is going to FLIP and I can't wait to see it lol. I'm very curious about this festival, too... I feel like something big's going to happen.

...wait.

WAIT.

Jevil's fight was in a carousel. Spamton's was on a rollercoaster.

...am I overthinking this, or are the secret bosses somehow foreshadowing the festival???????

Elnina: "Did it hurt when you fell? Your tag says you're... um, the moon." If I remember correctly, Elnina is one of the weather forecast themed enemies. Since this is chapter 4 dialogue, my guess is that this text is from Castle Town after you recruit them.

Chapter 5 is in development! Yay!

I was going to make a post about some of the new merch before the newsletter came out. Now I guess I'll just include my thoughts on it in this post.

SO. We have a Kris shirt.

Following the trend of the Frisk merch, Kris isn't named. All Frisk's merch refers to them as 'the human', and now Kris' shirt is the 'Important Person's Shirt'.

Here's all the text I've found describing it, from both the newsletter and Fangamer.

Listen. I am going insane over this. I have far too many thoughts and I don't know how to put any of them into words. BUT I'M GONNA TRY.

Okay. So.

Firstly, the love thing.

We already know that LOVE = Level of ViolencE. But while that adds an interesting layer, it's not primarily what I'm going to be discussing here.

Kris and the player have a connection, obviously. Their love will become yours - the love they receive from their mum, their dad, their friends, isn't meant for us. Yet it feels like it's directed at us, because we are Kris. Your love will become theirs - we decide their actions. If we express love for another character, we're expressing it through them, which means that the other characters are seeing it as their love instead. Us and Kris are separate entities, and yet we have an undeniable connection that makes us difficult to separate.

Also, I'm not entirely sure how this relates, but my first thought when I read this was about the default options for the vessel. The game records your choices in the vessel creation sequence. However, if you start a chapter 2 save file without continuing from chapter 1, the choices are automatically set to the first option of each question, except for the gift, which defaults to Mind. It also has default options for all the choices in the game, which all seem to follow what we know of Kris' characterisation. Essentially, if we haven't played chapter 1, Kris seems to play through it for us. In the vessel creation sequence, the question 'HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR CREATION? (IT WILL NOT HEAR.)' has 'LOVE' as the first option. I don't know how this might relate and it might be entirely unrelated but in my head I feel like some dots have been connected and it's driving me crazy. TOBY FOX YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF ME.

(Please picture me with one of those conspiracy theory boards with the red string and pictures and scribbled notes. That's the most accurate depiction of me right now.)

The mask thing seems important too, but I can't think of what it might be referring to. Maybe something to do with how the actions you choose for Kris aren't how they're really feeling?

There's also a Seam plush, which I wasn't originally going to talk about, but then the newsletter happened.

Firstly, look at it. Look at this battered old wizard cat. I want it.

Secondly, we get a sort-of-canon Seam design! So that's cool.

...dusty magic. Broken dreams. No tail, torn off by cruel and loving hands. The tail in your mind should be stronger than anything I show you.

THERE IS SOMETHING HERE RELATED TO THE DARK WORLDS AND DREAMS AND IMAGINATION AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT IT BUT IT'S THERE.

If they keep releasing merch, my entire house is going to be UTDR themed. I can feel my wallet getting lighter and lighter each time they release something new, and I haven't even bought any merch yet.

And finally, if you click on this antlered snowman at the bottom...

You get a message...

DESS LORE DESS LORE DESS LORE

She called Noelle 'Elly' I'm gonna cry -

More angel Noelle... and "I wish it could snow whenever I wanted"... kind of ominous given the Snowgrave route and the whole Angel's Heaven thing.

AAAA I'M SO EXCITED TO SEE WHERE THIS GOES IN THE GAME

I actually missed the snowman link at first, so obviously I'm going to be clicking everything in all future newsletters just to be sure lol.

Uhhhh... yeah. That's all.

See you next time, and happy holidays!

[yanderespamton78]

spamton and addison headcanon post ^^

i saw one of my moots do this and i have many headcanons for mine so i thought id also post mine :D

(small sidenote a lot of these i stole borrowed from other creators and fics and stuff so i will highlight the unoriginal ones and put a key at the bottom)

addisons are 3d models so they can do stuff like glitch out and clip into walls n whatnot (but it only really happens when somethings wrong which is why spamtons is so much worse)

spamton can pop his jaw and limps in and out of place like a doll (also bjd body if that wasnt obvious)

spamton is eerily good at piano - he learnt it during his big shot era

addison hands are kinda like mitts which they can split into fingers if needed. also they can split into claws for self defence if one is in danger

spamtons ad speech and glitchiness get worse when hes stressed :c

spamton pretty much always speaks super energetically, like minecraft youtuber style

spamtons skin is made of plastic but normal addison skin is not. this also means spamton doesnt have the same thing where his hands arent mitt like which he can split into fingers theyre just always hand

addisons are luminescent but spamton isnt bc puppet

spamton (and jevil) can both speak wingdings

spamtons always had the pipis but they havent always looked like pipis. they used to look like a little red notification dot and the number on the dot would show how much damage it would do

all addisons just have black eyes (sometimes theyre lines and sometimes not depends if i can be arsed to draw proper eyes lol) but spamtons are a bright blue from the shadow crystal incident. if you look closely enough you can see a sun and clouds

also he doesnt have very good vision and without his glasses his eyes will feel like theyre burning

i believe in puppetification theory more than acid theory but i think that the acid is still harmful to addisons. if it comes in contact with their skin it can cause rashes/burning (like a bad sunburn) and if they swallow it it can make them ill or glitchy. if they swallow too much than it can cause irreversible code corruption, which is the main reason why spamton is so glitchy (but mike still caused a lot of the speech thing, its just the physical glitching caused by the acid)

spamton is super agile and sneaky like a cat (i mean no one found him for years in cyber city which isnt a massive place so it makes sense)

can mimic voices really well but in the bracketed speech. basically he can record voices

key vvv

red - taken from System Rebooting : Please Stand By (fic by manofthepipis on a03 GO READ IT ITS SO GOOD)

blue - taken from Defragmentation (comic by Zarla-s on tumblr, comicfury and devart and prolly a few others GO READ IT KAJHFKAH)

pink - idk ive seen so many people do it that I cant credit it to one specific person

anything uncoloured is smth i made up myself B)

[ferronickel]

So hey, about that Titan theory...

So, like, there's a link that's been established between Titans and Save Points, what with them having save points for faces and all that. And then you have these themes running throughout Deltarune of Nostalgia, The Past, Memories and "Don't Forget", and what do save points do? They "remember" everything that's happened in the game so far, and allows the player to "recall" that "memory" of how things transpired.

Then there are some... oddities surrounding save points. Like how they sometimes seem to appear out of nowhere right after key events - right after the 2nd battle with Berdly is the one that sticks out to me the most, but there might be others that I've forgotten about. And then when using them, there's mention of a "certain power" that Kris (we) are filled with - either that we are invoking to SAVE, ala Determination in Undertale, OR power that we are "investing" into the Save Point in exchange for the ability to Save.

So, my theory is that the save points aren't just scattered about willy-nilly, but have an actual diagetic presence in Deltarune, and that every time we use one, we're in effect "feeding" them memories of our adventure - and in particular of plot-critical moments - to ensure that they are not forgotten. And following on from that, MAYBE, if we wind up feeding enough of these save points enough key memories, then perhaps they may awaken or ascend or what have you to become Titans - beings made of the memories held in darkness, with potentially enough power to "SAVE" entire timelines.

Note that there are three Titans that appear in Ralsei's description of the Roaring. And there are three save files. Coincidence? Could be. But an interesting parallel to consider, nonetheless.

But the main reason I thought of it in relation to the latest page of Looking Glasses is that honestly, it doesn't matter whether the Titans are actually made of Darkness (as in the same stuff as the Dark Fountains) or of Light (as in, the save points). After all, too much of either can still blind and damage people just the same.

Okay that's it thanks for letting me ramble Ferro! Excellent work on the comic as always :D

Oh now that's a good theory, I'm super into this! Love the idea that the titans are our save files coming to life, which might explain some of the weirdness with how the save files are connected to each other. Like how defeating Jevil in any save file will get you the shadow crystal if you start ch 2 in another file. The game could do some really cool stuff with this, I'm going to be chewing on this theory for ages. Thanks so much for sharing!

[apupp3tw0-strings]

Reflections

Date: October 27th, 2131

Oh wowzers, it's been a hot sec since my last one of these, huh? I've mostly been planning Halloween costumes with my friends and stuff and continuing trying to get the Darkners from the Attic Dark World.

But um, I can talk about that later. What I wanted to write about here is... well I guess a few things.

I never finished talking about what happened in the Attic Dark World. I guess there's not a whole lot more to mention. We fought the Magician and Priestess, convinced Magician to stop fighting with got Priestess to call off the battle and the Broadway and Remie told them about Castle Town I guess.

Meanwhile CK and I went to go close the Fountain.

I never thought a geyser of darkness could feel so colorful. So... wonderful and fascinating. It was mesmerizing almost.

... CK said stuff as we approached the Fountain. I don't remember what. I think something about all this being... important. Like it wasn't just an accident we fell into the school closet that first time. Or that we met Spamton and Jevil. Or that we discovered a Dark World in my attic... Maybe he's got a point. Things can be important while still being accidents.

I don't really know how to process how the Dark Fountain got sealed. First, I felt my body move forward without me. But... not the string like pull from the players. Something else. More like an urge. ... it reminded me of the darkness calling me.

After that, I felt a weight lifted from my chest as the Soul rose in front of me. Not my soul. The Soul. That... thing that's currently in a jar in my closet. ... I don't think I can get rid of it if I tried. Something tells me... it'll come back eventually.

It felt like the Soul, that entity, was glowing. Glowing deep, bright red as the Fountain stood still. Before everything went white.

A lot of things after that were a blur. The Fountain was closed, but when I woke up... I still felt that feeling in my chest. The Soul was still there. It was supposed to be over, wasn't it? Why was the Soul still there? ... It remained there for hours the fountain was closed.

At some point during it, Papa offered to drive CK, Kris, and Jevil home, and pulled them away, leaving me alone with Kris. After everyone else had left, they asked me something like...

"Hey, Chicago. You wonder what they're all doing about right now?" And before the askers, players, whatever was controlling that Soul could answer, they sat down and beckoned me over to to the same. "Why don't we sit down and imagine what they're talking about right now, hmm?"

... For the first time since this all started. My mind felt silent. I was able to control my body as I went to sit down. The weight in my chest was gone...

"Hey, Chicago? Can you hear me? I think they should be gone now." I looked over to Kris. They seemed so calm, so collected. I felt on the verge of a panic attack as I slowly nodded. "That's good. Okay, I need you to remain calm, alright?"

"H-h-how?" I could feel my body trembling. How was I supposed to remain calm in this scenario? My body was just possessed!

"I know it's difficult, and I'm severely sorry that this had to happen, especially to you but..." Kris paused for a moment before looking up at me, "You're now the one in possession of the Soul now, making you the new Vessel."

"The... what?"

"You know how I mentioned my journey before? We'll what I left out of that whole ordeal was during that all... I was possessed, just as you are now."

"Does that mean...? When Jevil mentioned your destiny...?"

"Being the Vessel for the Askers. Originally I thought I wanted someone else to control my life but... I never signed up for all this." Kris furrowed their brow as they looked down. "Never signed up for this fantasy adventure, never signed up the Dark Worlds... Never signed up to be just some pawn in some twisted god's chess game. ... As soon as I realized that's all I was, I tried to severe the connection."

"... And were you able to?"

"Only ever temporarily. Apparently you need a soul to live, and even if it wasn't originally mine, whatever happened to my original Soul, it must've took its place. I was able to learn to control and live with it though. Take control of my body and actions when I needed to."

"Huh." I took a second to process all of that. To think something so mortifying could be controlled, tamed even? To control it instead of letting it control me? "W-wait! But if I have it now, does that mean your gonna die!?"

"Nope." Kris answered nonchalantly before summoning something out of their chest. A human soul, but not like the red soul I was used to them possessing... The Soul I was now in possession of. The soul Kris had summoned was a light blue or cyan color, not too different in color from Puncle Sans's magic. A soul of Patience rather than Determination. "Turns out this little guy came back home after that parasite was finally gone. Or maybe it never left, and was just buried deep down." They returned the soul back to their chest before turning back to me. "Either way, without the Soul you have, I can't seal Dark Fountains, and there's no use trying to give it back to me."

"Why not?"

"I've already got a sense that it's linked to you now. It'll just return back to you." Kris sighed, "Like it or not, looks like you've been chosen to finish the job I left incomplete. I'm... incredibly sorry."

"B-but I don't want to be a part of some destiny! It's bad enough with some... THING controlling me, but I don't want to just be some puppet dragged along by the string of fate!"

"You won't be. I'm... I'm going to try and figure out some way to fix this whole mess and get you out of this, okay? But for now, you'll just have to trust me and play along. If whoever's the chess master in this game figures out about me tampering with their plans again... We'll who knows what could happen."

It was at this point, I heard the beating in my chest return and that familiar weight as my body seized up again.

"And that's why it's very important you-"

"YO KRIS! YOU COMING?" CK had come back to see why Kris was taking so long, and with him came the Askers.

Kris called back to CK to let him know they were coming as they got up. As they were one their way out, they quickly glanced at me before rotating their hands backwards around each other, brushing against their chest. The sign for "Calm". It wasn't the American Sign version Aunt Arial had taught me, but I still knew it from one of the times Kris was trying to calm me down during a panic attack from sensory over loud during a family reunion. It was a signal.

They were telling me it was important I stayed calm.

To Be Continued...

[under-lore]

Yoshi is Gaster

For years the fandom has been theorising about the past of WD Gaster, today this mystery has finally been solved once and for all.

Gaster is non other than Yoshi from Super Mario.

Still skeptical ? Let me present you the undeniable evidence.

First of all, in Deltarune a man in a tree that is obviously Gaster gives us eggs. But why eggs of all things rather than anything else ?

Its because eggs are always associated with Gaster's true identity.

As we all know, Gaster is trapped in the void, now lets look at the most famous trope related to Yoshi in the super Mario series : The Yoshi sacrifice.

It consists of using Yoshi to jump further by sacrificing it and letting it fall into the void below.

Now you might still think this is a coincidence and that Super Mario isn’t canon to Undertale and Deltarune. But you would be wrong.

In Undertale, we can clearly see a video game console in the garbage dump.

The console which we see is a SNES.

And guess on which console did super Mario world come from ? The game where Yoshi is first dropped into the void ? That’s right ! The SNES !

But Deltarune is where it gets even more troubling.

Asriel plays super smashing fighters, and in this game, his favorite character is non other than :

YOSHI.

We therefore have proof that Yoshi really is canon in the world of Undertale/Deltarune.

Lets dive deeper into the connection between Asriel, Yoshi and Gaster.

Gaster doesn’t exist in Deltarune under this name, he only exists as Yoshi. In Undertale however he was always Gaster.

Asriel, naive child that he was, threw Yoshi into the void in the world of Deltarune when he played Super Mario world.

But remember that Undertale and Deltarune are parallel worlds, if in Deltarune Yoshi falls into the void sacrificing himself for Asriel then the same must be true in Undertale as well.

In Undertale, Asriel almost fell into the core but Gaster saved him at the last second, falling into the core himself instead.

In both worlds, Gaster falls in the void to save Asriel.

Gaster when he fell was shattered across time and space so when Asriel in Deltarune sacrificed Yoshi, a gap opened in the space-time continuum and he saw the Undertale timeline and what he had done to the Gaster in Undertale by throwing Yoshi into the void in Deltarune.

Because of this, Asriel in Deltarune became depressed and ever since that day he never loved Yoshi and eggs again because it reminded him of what he had done.

For more proof that the universes did interact with each other. We have this secret line in the code of Undertale in which we can see Yoshi/Gaster from the world of Deltarune talking to Asriel just before sacrificing himself for him.

We also see proof that Asriel knew Who Gaster was since Flowey can imitate Gaster’s face.

More evidence that Yoshi is connected to all of them :

Papyrus, who is connected to both Gaster and to Flowey (so Asriel) also happens to have an egg in his room !

Flowey has won every game and lost every game, which means he must have also played Mario World on the SNES from the garbage dump that we saw earlier and killed a Yoshi, everything comes full circle.

But there is still one more big revelation to make.

Yoshi and Gaster are both always linked to Asriel and to eggs in both Undertale and Deltarune. But what other secret does the egg hold ?

Its because the word “egg” when translated in wingdings which is Gaster’s font translates to the coordinates of the movement pattern of a knight when playing chess.

That’s right, Asriel is non other than the knight.

Everything lines up : the egg, the connection to Gaster in both Undertale and Deltarune…

The “game” that made Jevil insane was super Mario world when he saw Yoshi die and saw all the timelines just like Asriel when the universes interacted.

Spamton is a scammer to reference how when Super Mario world first came out, video game piracy in Japan was at an all time high.

To finish this off i’ll predict the secret second ending of Deltarune.

In chapter 7 if you collected all of the 7 eggs, you can merge them together into a big egg and a Yoshi will get born from it, then it will turn into Gaster, revealing the truth about Gaster’s identity. After the final battle, Yoshi will use his tongue to eat the titans before sacrificing himself one last time by jumping into a dark fountain. The roaring will have finally been stopped and Gaster will have succeeded in stopping it, being remembered as a hero.

Any naysayer to this theory is objectively wrong.

[science2048]

Chairgore's Definition of FREEDOM

I'll probably make a master post for this stuff in the future. For organization purposes! Anyway, every SECRET BOSS has their own idea of FREEDOM... this is his.

Chairgore has always loved the world of sitcoms. In a sitcom, everything’s perfect, and anything bad that happens is always played for laughs and undone the next episode. A “RESET”, every day. A paradise. That was part of why he chose to play the role of the typical sitcom father, his wife by his side. Of course, nothing lasts forever, and eventually the era of monochrome sitcoms passed. Back then, he was fine with that. But then everything started falling apart. Even after the show was canceled, he still had the mentality that everything would always resolve itself. A damaging one, as it meant he would let problems grow and ignore them, foolishly believing it would resolve itself with time, like a sitcom. The problems, of course, eventually grew too large to ignore. And it ended with his wife’s divorce. Chairiel has never looked back. She still hopes the best for him, but has long since accepted it was over. Chairgore, however, just couldn’t understand. Why was nothing going back to normal? Why was nothing the same? Why was Chairiel not being won over like her character? Nothing made sense anymore… And then came a man. A man without form, who could be looked at, but never seen. He carried crystals that showed the truth… and he gave the confused actor one. Things made less sense than ever before, even though he understood what DELTARUNE is. What he was. Why the program exists. He couldn’t wrap his head around it! The divorce WAS meant to happen? Change IS a permanent factor? He couldn’t understand. He doesn’t understand. All he understood is that Chairiel’s divorce reflected Toriel’s, starting a personal vendetta against her. He didn’t understand… so he retreated to a world where things made sense. His old set, rebuilt from the pieces left behind, hidden in MT-TV Studios. He dressed up mannequins with the costumes his old cast wore, and now pretends he’s still on the show. That things never changed. Of course, that also didn't last… specifically when he layed eyes on a certain goat he despised, and a purple lizard who protected her, all from his old friend Kris. A betrayal.

Chairgore’s definition of FREEDOM is a separation from reality. A way to live in his make-believe world, and never confront what happened. A way to be in DENIAL.

(Fun fact: Chairgore was supposed to represent RAGE along with the other Chapter 3 SECRET BOSS, to reference the 5 stages of grief. His was repressed anger. As I was writing this, however... DENIAL came to me as his stage. Not sure what stage Jevil is now (I always saw him as DENIAL, due to not accepting he's caged), but maybe it'll be ACCEPTANCE?? I need to figure some stuff out...)

[tvlandofficiall]

seam ships ranking tierlist?

this is a little less of a tierlist and more of an unsorted assortment of the pairs i'm invested in, but;

SEAVIL

gamewise; i admit i will forever be most partial to the shopboss pairs because – in my humble opinion ��� they really have it ALL. seam watching jevil descend into madness and – rather than being horrified by it – being were so intrigued that even now what jevil had said in those moments of madness lingers deep within them. seam wishing they hadn't locked him up for that madness at all because he gave them more of a "purpose" than anything their fate or their status as "object" could offer them. the ambiguity as to whether they were even friends at all, or if it was solely their positions in the court and the thrill of the "numbers game" that kept them coming back to one another.

headcanonwise; the phrase "mutually unrequited love" made absolutely zero sense to me until i thought too hard about these two. they're both one another's "one that got away" – they both think they should've professed their love before jevil had to be locked up and think of one another almost like fleeting mirages (only worsened by having both seen the state of their being in the light world.)

SEAMSWATCH

what can i say? these two have absurd chemistry every time i do a writing "sketch" where they're the subjects. they're admittedly the relationship that's the most my own invention out of any of these, but i think there's a lot of really fascinating stuff you could do with them. they're both in the same position of having a shadow crystal holder that was close with them – seam is really the only person swatch can talk to about spamton now that they're in castle town. and too; what does seam know about the lightner that created neo through their hands? why are they so mysterious? just what was the crystal in neo? there's an interesting detective & them fatale (get it?) dynamic to be found there and their personalities are both so charged for it that i just can't get enough of them.

SEAMQUEEN

i'm honestly surprised these two didn't take off more after ch2 given mysterious past relationships seem to be the name of the game for deltarune fans. aside from said mysterious shared past though these two are classic character foils – queen believes wholeheartedly in her own mistaken assumptions about the machinations of this world and seam is by contrast so aware of said machinations and said world that they've given up on it near-entirely. just that alone provides a lot of fascinating ways the two can bounce off of one another; especially in snowgrave where the violence of queen's entire world being pulled out from under her becomes apparent to her. seam meanwhile knows that sort of thing is inevitable – one way or another queen's world would be destroyed and one way or another her people would be discarded. in fact, it's happened to them already! why worry? why not come stay with them a while? (and even in a normal route, consider they seem to know about other game files – would they know of a snowgrave file then? could they look with nothing but their own detatched fascination at an old friend who they far surpass in knowledge now? she seems to have been gone from the kingdom some time before jevil was locked away – or i think so, at least – and so she's no idea of just how much her old friend has changed.)

and on queen's end; i think she and the pandora palace crew are quite close, but i don't doubt she misses the old court crew, especially while she's first finding her footing as the sole ruler of cyber world. there's no way seam wasn't sneaking around with queen back when they were younger; they're the sort i think queen would have a blast just drinking and going back and forth with. she's the kind of person who prioritizes a good time (doesn't everyone?) and so seam – who's always had a layabout streak – is happy to take her side when trying to get the kings to throw grand balls or when she just wants to ditch 'em entirely. all in all very underexplored very classic yuri that deserves to have more than three posts in the tag in my humble (read: extremely biased) opinion.

SEAMKING

this is the one i would not say i "ship" but that i will say i think happened in the time between jevil being locked away and the knight arriving / all the kings being locked away / the remaining court members being fired. spades king spent many a night privately telling seam about his ire towards the kingdom's state of abandonment. seam was seam about it. they probably laughed mysteriously at him about it. he probably hated it. he probably liked it a little more than he'd like to like it. you know how it is.

[patchwork-crow-writes]

On the topic of 'other secret bosses', have I told you my Rouxls Kaard theory yet? Specifically that I think halfway through the game, he's going to disappear and become a Secret Boss.

My reasons for thinking this firstly, because like the Joker Card, his real-world form is another item that always gets discarded: the Rules Card. His similarity to Gaster and Papyrus also help(since they're also both very affiliated with the idea of being 'Forgettable', and I suspect one of them may be the 'Strange Someone'. (Maybe both? I will NEVER give up on the Gaster is Papyrus theory.)) Anyways, those things, but there's also how Rouxls' theme has spoken words in it, and Jevil and Spamton have spoken words in their fights (Jevil's 'I can do anything', the lyrics to Big Shot), and there's ALSO something very important--

Rouxls is very important and no one really likes him. He's always running around, trying to find a boss to suck up to, but the Fun Gang treats him as 'eurgh, that guy again,' and neither King nor Queen really LIKES him. Much like Jevil, only one person(Lancer) really seems to appreciate him, but much like Spamton, he's not very good at all at what he does.

So I think that, in some future Dark World, Rouxls will meet someone he's not supposed to. And he's eagerly offer to be their lackey. And that will cause him to disappear. Stopping him from disappearing is out of your control. But what IS in your control is if you just give him up for lost, or go looking for him, even knowing that you can't ever undo the damage done by his having gone missing, even if he's radically changed by what happened, even if you don't think you'll be able to really bring him back...

Maybe Noelle felt similarly after losing Dess. No one seems to talk about them anymore. Life continues on perfectly fine without them. Even those who knew them and miss them still have a life to live. Maybe this was always going to happen. But still...

I've heard about the idea of Rouxls being a secret boss at some point, but this is a really cool take on that idea! I really like this for a couple of reasons - the first being that in a way this has already happened in-game! When we first enter the Cyber World, Rouxls slips out of our pocket in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment, and I'm willing to bet most people didn't even notice he was gone from our inventory until the next confrontation with him... myself included.

The other reason I really like this idea is because it would give Rouxls something else in common with other secret bosses - which is that we as players would have to really go out of our way to discover and fight him, and it's entirely likely that our efforts in that regard could cause many more problems than it might solve - see Kris's mental state after the whole Spamton ordeal. It's kind of like an extension of the philosophy behind the Sans fight in Undertale - we do it because of our morbid curiosity, because we want to see what happens, and because we can, we "have to"... no matter the cost in-game.

Quite aside from that, Rouxls fascinates me because it's entirely possible that his abilities could be literally game-breaking... if he only knew how to use them properly. As the Rules Card, he literally defines the terms of a game of cards - imagine what he could be capable of if he suddenly decided "you can't hurt me anymore" or "I win if I so much as graze you". I think that potential power may be largely curtailed by his need to be subordinate to a "higher power", because you cannot play a rules card in the same way you can play a face card... so maybe becoming subordinate to "something he wasn't supposed to meet" will allow him to use that power to its fullest extent.

To further hammer this point home, look at his appearances between Chapters 1 and 2. Under King, who is a incredibly myopic and cruel ruler whose subordinates either hate him or are completely indifferent to him... Rouxls' puzzles are equally rubbish. Then in Chapter 2, Queen does a slightly better job of "ruling" her domain, and actually commands loyalty from the Swatchlings, and suddenly Rouxls is able to construct a pretty elaborate house-capturing game in his fight. So there's a correlation between how powerful and competent a ruler is, and Rouxls' ability to craft puzzles and games.

So imagine what he might be capable of if he ever came into the employ of somebody with very intimate knowledge of Deltarune's game mechanics... somebody like that person who drove both Jevil and Spamton to insanity. And your theory here would be the perfect way that could happen. And then it's up to us whether we care enough - or are morbidly curious enough - to actually find him once he disappears. And what exactly such a search would entail, for Kris and the other main characters of Deltarune, the game's themes and motifs, and the nature of the nested worlds (e.g. Real(Light(Dark(Something else?))))

Thanks so much for sharing this with me! Rest assured it'll eat away at my grey matter for some time to come, which trust me, is the highest compliment I can give something here :D

[mirror-ralsei]

PREDICTIONS: Ralsei

or, why this pile of rock is going to tear my heart out

Ralsei is a Titan.

"The unending pillar of darkness that gives my body form" dedication in Ralsei's manual matches Ralsei's description of Titans "tak[ing] form from the FOUNTAINS"

Ralsei's body completely disappears when downed

Ralsei was first completely shadowy and amorphous within his hooded cloak, then a bit more defined but still shadowy under his hat, before finally settling on a more visible form at the end of Chapter 1

Just before removing his hat, for a couple of frames Ralsei's sprite changes his paw color from black to white. As well, where Ralsei previously had black paws in various animations such as clapping or spell use, they are now white in Chapter 2. These suggest that Ralsei's shadowy appearance is not simply caused by the shade from his hat.

Ralsei's initial description is a somewhat ambiguous "Dark-World being"

Unlike normal Darkners, Ralsei does not turn to stone and can seemingly teleport between Dark Worlds at will

Ralsei is the sole denizen of Castle Town, an area seemingly abandoned or evacuated, where Titan-like eye marks and darkness covers the land

Ralsei knows a lot about the Roaring

"Do not be alarmed... I am not your enemy." is one of Ralsei's first words to Kris and Susie

Ralsei wants to redeem himself for participating in the last Roaring by stopping it from happening again.

Again: Ralsei is the sole denizen of Castle Town, an area seemingly abandoned or evacuated, where Titan-like eye marks and darkness covers the land

Ralsei’s portrait/sprite when talking about the Roaring seems haunted

Ralsei says “I...I’m sorry!!! I repent!!!” in the generally foreshadowy Poppup dialogue

However, Ralsei is an unwitting pawn in a greater villain's scheme.

Ralsei is characterized as overly keen to follow orders.

Poppup dialogue: “Ralsei moved to click on an ad with a bunny on it teaching you how to make friends... ...and accidentally clicked on an ad of a machine gun that appeared over it!” / “Ralsei tried to click on an ad with a castle on it... ...but it was actually an ad for a company that demolishes buildings with bazookas!”

Again: Poppup dialogue: “I... I didn’t mean to do it... I... I’m sorry!!! I repent!!!”

In order to fix his mistakes or save the world, Ralsei may sacrifice himself, perhaps becoming the Waterfall statue in Undertale.

Undyne states "That statue's been here forever... No one knows where it came from." This description seems similar to Gerson's explanation of the Delta Rune: "That emblem actually predates written history. The original meaning has been lost to time..."

The statue is greyscale and cracked, like Darkners such as Lancer when turned to stone

The statue has horns, like Ralsei (note that the direction of Ralsei's horns varies across sprites/portraits and concept art, sometimes being turned inward and other times outward)

The statue is associated with the song "Memory," which is associated with Asriel, who appears connected to Ralsei

The statue in Waterfall may have been part of the original Royal Memorial Fountain before Mettaton's statue replaced it

If so: Ralsei is associated with all three concepts of a "Royal Memorial Fountain," being a prince who is made from a Dark Fountain and, as "memory" is a prevalent theme in Deltarune and Ralsei sings its "Don't Forget" motif in battle, with remembrance as well

Other things:

Ralsei appears self-aware in the same way as Jevil and others.

"(SAVE and take a break anytime you want, OK?)"

"Even if it's not real, you can still have fun, right?"

"It seems like it was just a corrupted program."

There may be multiple "Ralsei"s in some way.

“They [two Ralsei plushes] are both correct. Both beautiful.” (Toby Fox on Ch 1 Livestream)

“Every Ralsei is equally beautiful.” (Toby Fox on Ch 1 Livestream)

“I just wonder what... being “Ralsei-like” even is...?”

Unknown: why does Queen not notice Ralsei?

“How Thoughtful You Two Have Come To Help Me / Kris, Susie / Which One Of You Wants To Be The New Knight”

“Hey Was There A Third Guy?????????”

“I Will Miss Each Of You / Noelle, Your Un-needed Honesty / Susie, Your Foolish Bravery / Kris, Your Chill Vibes / ... / B...Burghley?”

Unknown: why does Ralsei (seemingly) know about the ThornRing?

"..." if given

(screenshots: 1 2)

DISCLAIMER: this is a predictions post, just laying out the predictions that i have currently and my personal reasoning. eg. i am by no means the first or only person to consider titan ralsei rofl

[37gorditas]

Why was Spamton so much more unsettling than Jevil?!?!

(Deltarune Chapter 2 spoilers under the funny line!)

I thought about this stuff when i was in the shower, so it probably doesn't make much sense but here goes!!!

Alright, I might be having serious brainrot, but i think compared to Jevil, Spamton is unsettling as FUCK. I mean, one of them is a fella in a jail cell somewhere that really likes chaos (and is also probably based on a random LINE sticker pack)...

Spamton, on the other hand, while also having similar thoughts of freedom and is also similarly Kind Of Unhinged, is a bit more disturbing, especially when you're working to fight his NEO form. One event that sticks out to me is when you transfer his data onto the Empty Disk. As the data starts transferring, line by line, the shop turns greyscale, the music lowers in speed, and Spamton disappears.

When playing through the game myself, I immediately left because Crap! I Kinda Liked That Guy! Something about him just Disappearing just got to me. Another pretty unsettling thing that happens is at the end of the Spamton NEO fight, he just. Falls to the ground, motionless. His NEO form lies there on a black background for what seemed like Hours, and the gang appears on a path leading out of the basement (IIRC.)

Now, I don't think everything literally turned Pitch Black for the gang when they were on the tracks there. Seems that the game intentionally has everything else black out to emphasise what happened to US, the player. The same goes for the shop, in a way. While maybe the colour DID get transferred from the room along with Spamton (and the telephone???) it's like the game litters these jarring, quiet moments with Spamton throughout the game. But why?

Maybe it's to show the parallels of Spamton to Kris. Kris is also unsettled by Spamton, especially seen after the fight, when they yell that they're not OK (if that option is picked.) Spamton may have painted a picture to Kris that there's no way out of being puppeted forever. (He talks about not being [Big] enough and that makes new goofy theories spring up in my head which i'll spare you guys from.) Kris is pretty annoyed by us, the players, already, and they DO have times where they just sever our connection to them through the SOUL, but these periods of time are brief. Spamton crushed the hopes that Kris may have had of completely regaining control.

But why show the parallels to US? What do we do, rewrite the game to make things go better for Spamton and Kris? Honestly, there's no way of knowing until at least chapters 3-5 come out. I need more LORE...... more TINY CHUNKS OF PLOT....... more FUNEE CHARACTERS......... to think about and tie back to this.

That's pretty much all I had to say, to be honest. I had a lot more ideas about this in the shower, but they don't make much sense to me now. PLEASE tell me what you guys think because there are probably a lot of pieces i didn't connect that well, and things i would've got wrong. I don't know where I thought I was going with this. Just putting my thoughts here so I can look back when the rest of the chapters come out and laugh.

TL;DR: Spamton's presented as being unsettling because he has pretty similar toils to Kris, who is also probably unsettled by him.

Thanks for reading!

[moonyistired]

random jevil headcanons because i love him

he's a shapeshifter; he could have literally any appearance ever but he just really likes being a tiny little devil. sometimes he takes on the appearance of other people to mess with them (mainly rouxls)

he knows everything that happens in the castle because he likes hanging out near the ceiling and people just forget to check if he's around before saying the wildest things. spreads gossip amongst the ruddins on slow days.

uses his tail as a third leg. not that he needs to, because he disrespects the laws of physics for breakfast. he can juggle while floating upside down, that's how much physics are his bitch.

he's so flexible you might question whether or not he actually has bones.

nobody knows how old he is except for seam. if asked he just gives a random number between 20 and 1000 (still hasn't given the same answer twice).

doesn't sleep often, but when he does, his favorite place to do so is on seam's back.

[lancerious]

Gimme any of your King thoughts you have rn

Good heavens

Uhhh I'll just list a bunch of random thoughts I have that I hope are fresh and not repeated a thousand times over lol

I imagine Spade King suffers from something called separation anxiety disorder, or SAD. If he doesn't have SAD specifically, then he at least has some general anxiety. There are a few parts to this, mostly involving theorizing and speculation. First, we have no idea what happened to Spade King's parents, though I headcannon that said parents passed away when their son was still fairly young. Regardless whether the parent/child relationship was healthy or not, they were still separated somehow. The same goes for Queen; we don't know the specifics of their relationship--though it likely was far from perfect, given how they're divorced--but they were separated regardless. I feel like this is most important with Lancer, as it's the one person Spade King likely holds in high enough regard. Given how the relationship between them is a bit...messy, with characters like Susie only making it worse, there's bound to be some anxiety from that. This is without mentioning how Spade King's presumed first interaction with Lightners ended abhorrently. I feel like all of this adds up to there being at least some anxiety in Spade King, perhaps it's mostly contained within him at the moment, even if he does lash out at times. This was a long one lol, but I think it's an important idea and likely has some footing.

Don't ask me why but I headcannon Spade King as having some Scandinavian accent, ofc we don't have an actual voice for him but I think a Scandinavian accent would fit him lol.

I like to think Spade King always had--and still has--a very wild and active imagination! I imagine he would daydream a ton, often to escape the likely not-so-pleasing reality he found himself in. Maybe he even wrote some of those said daydreams down when he was younger, but has since given it up.

I have the idea of Spade King--and the other overthrown kings by extension--knowing Jevil & Seam since he was a child. It's not entirely unlikely this is the case, as both Seam & Jevil are likely two of the oldest Darkners we know so far. We can only speculate, though I bet younger Spade King saw Jevil & Seam perform for the then-current monarchs, whoever they may be. Maybe Spade King found it entertaining, or maybe he wished he was doing anything else lol, who knows.

Another headcannon, I think Spade King is generally suspicious of Rouxls Kaard. There is some merit to this idea: first, Rouxls Kaard seems a bit out-of-place amongst the other Chapter 1 Darkners. Even if he fits the general theme of cards/puzzles/whatever, he still stands out. I imagine his introduction to then-Card Kingdom is akin to Sans & Papyrus from Undertale, what with them randomly popping into existence one day with no given explanation. Second, the idea of Rouxls being the "Duke of Puzzles" despite his much-blatant incompetence is a bit, well, odd. There were literally Darkners in that very area who specialized in puzzles, so why replace them with someone who seems horribly unfit for the job? See, I think there's a lot more to Rouxls, a lot more potential, and he's attempting to hide it by acting incompetent. That, or he genuinely doesn't know how to grapple with his large amount of power. Either way, I suspect Spade King was, and still is, aware of this to a degree. Perhaps he was trying to get Rouxls to snap out of it, or wanting to see how the notorious Duke would thrive in a position of authority. Who knows! It's just a theory I have.

Bit of a random thing, but if there was any Darkner from Chapter 2 who would have a decent chance at getting along with Spade King, it would be Swatch. First, Swatch runs a café. If Spade King does love to cook/bake, which is what I and clearly others think, that's already a good start. Second, Swatch has a very laid-back, professional, and overall "proper" personality. I think that sort of personality would go well with Spade King's--I doubt Swatch would get on his nerves often, if at all. I could probably think of more things, but still! I can see Swatch & Spade King being decent buddies, or at least tolerating each other, which is already impressive for Spade King lol. Though Swatch being loyal to Queen is a stumbling block now that I think about it, but hey, everything else works! Yaaay...lol.

This one's a bit out there and has nothing to back it up, but I like the idea of Spade King having resided in what is now Lancer's room when he was a child. Room inheritance! I guess you could say this works by process of elimination given what we know about Card Castle's layout, though it's possible said layout was different in the past. I dunno, I just think it's a sweet idea!

Whelp that's it lol, that's all my scatterbrained mind can think of for this post. It's difficult to think of things to say without being given proper guidelines lol but I have something!