#s5 mileven is going to be amazing

[lexisworlddddddd]

Mileven Ramblings Ahead:

Am I the only one who thinks that Mileven’s main angst arc is over, if that makes any sense? Not in the sense that they are going to breakup, but in the sense that their relationship is going to be way fluffier and sweet next season because they don’t really have any roadblocks anymore.

Like the main issue in their relationship wasn’t even THAT bad, it was literally because they simply weren’t that confident in themselves and never communicated that. *That’s like literally it. I genuinely don’t understand what argument they would have other than like an argument where the only reason they’re arguing is because they want the other person to be safe or something like that.

*Sidenote: Why do people make their relationship out to be so toxic and horrible when the only reason they were arguing was because of a lack of communication and their own insecurities??? Mike didn’t feel like he deserves El, and therefore didn’t tell her he loved her in fear that one day she would also think that she could do better and leave him. It doesn’t really help that she’s been taken away from him so many times either!

In season 1, she disappeared in front of him to another dimension and was presumably dead for almost a year. In Season 2, they reunited for like 30 minutes before she had to leave him AGAIN to save the world which could have also ended up with her dying. In Season 3, Hopper’s meddling, while it wasn’t completely his fault, was the catalyst to their “breakup” and in that same season, El moves away from him to go across the country! In season 4, not only does he watch her get arrested and taken away from him, he THEN finds out that she was intercepted, for lack of a better word, to get her powers back, and when he finds her she BEING SHOT AT FROM PEOPLE IN A HELICOPTER! On top of that, Vecna almost strangled her to death and Mike has to hold her and hope that his words will save her from literally dying is his arms.

Every single time things are going great, something happens and Eleven ends up going somewhere that Mike can’t follow, which manifested into the whole issue of him feeling like he’s not enough/is scared of losing Eleven, which led to him to not tell her he loves her, because he figures that it would make it easier when she inevitably leaves him.

Also Also Also Also!!!! ELEVEN CAN BE INDEPENDENT AND STILL BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH MIKE!!! MIKE CAN BE INDEPENDENT AND STILL BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ELEVEN!!!YOU CAN BE INDEPENDENT AND STILL BE ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE ELSE!!! THE TWO ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!!!!!

Ok I think that’s it lol. I don’t know how this became a Mike Wheeler défense post but whatever. I’ll clean this up later.

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[ifistayitwillbedouble]

Finn said the Duffers planned the monologue since the near beggining and later he said he prefers mileven because it started at the beggining.

Ur ship is never gonna happen sweetie

hey!!!!! my first hate(?) anon, how's it goin'?

Y'know what, weirdly enough those things actually give me more hope that mileven was written to break up (and consequently have byler happen).

If the monologue was planned for that long and the Duffers were really building up to it to be this big, amazing love confession, they kinda fumbled the bag ngl. It ended up being full of all kinds of cliches (love at first sight like the writers have said they don't believe in on their twitter) and lacked any sort of romantic chemistry (Will had to push Mike to say ily in the first place).

It was just pretty disappointing all around. If I wanted mileven to happen, I would've been pissed. El deserved to hear much more than cliches and how about all the stuff she could do with her powers all over again. Why couldn't they just be more like lumax? Plenty of viewers are convinced of how much lumax care about each other and they didn't even need a big love confession. But so many viewers have stopped seeing the depth in Mike and El's relationship and don't care for it anymore. It kinda sucks because it was easy to agree in the first two seasons that they had this deep bond and love for each other, but not with these last two seasons when they start properly dating :/

And since this monologue was planned from the beginning like you said and I have more faith in the Duffer brothers as writers, that convinces me it was intentional for it to be like that. And if it was intentional, I can't imagine why other than to show Mike and El's relationship deteriorating. That mileven wasn't meant to last. The monologue wasn't meant to work and so it didn't in the show (they lost the battle for Hawkins) or for the audience at large.

As for what Finn said, I honestly don't care too much for what the actors say. I know David Harbour, who plays Hopper, literally said Hop was dead just for him to come back a season later. I would also never in a million years expect Finn to say he preferred byler just because that would give it away right then and there. But with him saying mileven, it could still go either way. It's also interesting to me that he added that "because of the beginning" part because that was really unnecessary. Why didn't he just say he liked mileven overall? Their relationship has changed so much from the beginning that he talked about that it makes me suspicious that he specified it like that.

And ultimately if byler doesn't happen, although all the writing decisions (especially in s4) seem to be headed that way, it won't be the end of the world. Byler could be a hugely historical moment in queer media history or it could not be. It's just a ship with a lot of potential at the end of the day. It's unecessary to come onto somebody else's byler blog and be condescending about it, you really don't need to be doing all that lmao. You can just go ahead and block me or the tags. I try to tag my posts as best as I can (with #byler or like #anti mileven) so people can enjoy mileven if they want to because that's totally fine. You stay out of my space and I'll stay out of yours so we can both enjoy the fandom, yeah?

Anyways, thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this and strengthen my byler confidence :) it's nice to spell out all my thoughts every once in a while like this. And even though we definitely disagree on this topic, I genuinely hope you have a good day and end up enjoying s5 once it finally drops

[bylerist]

every day i become more and more convinced that milevens are some sort of elaborate social experiment because my autistic brain cannot even begin to comprehend how anyone — anyone —can still ship mike and el after s4 — or honestly, even before that. it’s beyond logic. it’s beyond common sense.

and sure, love isn’t logical. love often defies common sense. but i still can’t wrap my head around how anyone can feel love for that ship. it doesn’t just defy logic, it defies basic observation skills. how can anyone can watch mike and el’s interactions — the awkwardness, the pretending to be other people, the straight up lying, the painful lack of chemistry — and be like “true love <3” ??? it’s almost impressive in it’s wrongness, like i honestly kind of admire their ability to be so aggressively wrong yet so confident.

the reality is i could spend years trying to understand them and still not succeed because there is no logic to it. they’re not logical or rational people. their operating system runs entirely on a mix of fantasy and delusion.

their neurons are firing fanfics directly into their visual cortex and calling it canon. mike could literally scream “I’M GAY” from the rooftops and they’d still be on twitter arguing that obviously he meant gay for el. it’s tragic. it’s hilarious. it’s a little sad.

they don’t love mileven — they love the imaginary version of mileven that they created in their heads that never truly existed outside of fics and fanart.

and sure, they’d probably say the same about byler — but we’ll see who’ll be laughing when s5 drops. spoiler alert: it’s not them. they’re really setting themselves up for disaster, rooting for a ship where both parties are so visibly unhappy in their relationship (and where one is so clearly in love with his best friend — but i digress).

i used to look at some of their accounts for the free comedy show back in 2022 but now when i’m exposed to their posts i’m just left kind of sad. also annoyed. if they’re crashing out this bad now i don’t even want to see what they have to say after s5. but yeah i genuinely want to study a mileven brain to see what the hell is going on in there.

is it just vibes, or a void perhaps? (probable)

is it pure stubbornness? (for sure)

is it homophobia? (check)

is it stockholm syndrome? science may never know.

another thing i don’t get: if i was deeply invested in a ship and a (very large) chunk of the fandom was absolutely balls to the wall convinced that one part of my ship was going to end up with someone else, i’d actually want to investigate why. if most the fandom was yelling at me that my ship was doomed and the evidence actually made sense, i might — oh, i don’t know — pay attention?

but alas. milevens survive by plugging their ears, chanting to themselves and everyone else that we’re “delusional weirdos" and praying that if they say it loud enough, reality will bend to their will— which, hey, good luck with that. you’ll have no one to blame but yourselves when s5 doesn’t go your way. i mean, you could try to blame it on fanservice, but in reality you just wanted to ignore four seasons worth of byler subtext so bad you’re gonna give yourself whiplash. should’ve read the room (and the facial expressions). it was all there. the entire time

and if any of you are reading this, hello. please let me study you. also screenshot this all you want but it’s going to be kind of embarrassing when you have to delete it after s5 because it will have aged like fine wine :) anyways, i truly hope you guys have an amazing time watching s5, because i know i will :)

[ven0moir]

BYCHANCE - meta breakdown

so i was tagged in this AMAZING thread. and god, it was delicious. it also made me realize something.

i want to start by pointing out the meta behind nancy and steve's interaction bc as unimpressed as nancy seems with him, he's sending the audience the subconscious message that the show can get super silly and far-fetched with its metaphors and analogies.

this reminded me of another scene in S2 where i felt the duffers/characters were talking to the audience and explaining the meta in very broad strokes.

The meta commentary is hilarious, and easy for the GA to pick up on and giggle a bit--Max represents a large portion of the audience--she liked the story, sure, but she considers it derivative and wished it had more originality.

What I learn from this is: The showrunners are aware of how derivative the show is, but are actually banking on it to hide the truth in plain sight. This will only be obvious in retrospect.

The show feels derivative ( and it is meant to feel so ) because the Duffers bank on the familiarity we have with the tropes they use so we as the audience make subconscious connections. But what makes the show original is how the context of the Derivative World designed by the Dufers affects and shapes the emotional realm, and thus growth, of these characters.

This line of thought reminds me a lot of this statement by Shawn Levy:

“People talk about mythology and The Upside Down ( the derivative aspects of the show that seem familiar/nostalgic ), and all that is huge, but the magic ( what makes the show original ) of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with others and through that connection, become heroes.”

Now, you might be wondering, how does Bychance fit into this? Well, so far in my deep-dive into Bychance meta, I've come to associate the word risk with odds and chance.

"Do you accept the RISK?"

Following this logic, then Bychance is 'derivative' in the sense that it is a combination of the tropes we previously observed in Doomed From The Start dynamics. In order of appearance these were Stancy, Mileven, Boyce and hell, probably even Karen and Billy.

But what's going to feel original about Bychance is the emotional depth and growth they lead to.

ITS A START, NOT A REACH

Similarly to Hopper, I'm not saying Bychance is this grand conspiracy, or grand strategy meticulously and perfectly planned from the start--what does seem realistic to me is that the Duffers had a solid idea of the direction they wanted to go in, and based on that were able to strategize where to leave certain hints and clues to build up to the scenes that need to happen.

one of such scenes being Bychance's First Meeting.

[strangertheories]

Hi! First of all: Love your theories and analysis of ST! :) So, I have something I wanted to see your take on. Ever since volume 2, I've been wondering about the probability of Byler being canon or not, but most of all, I've been thinking about Mike's character and how he has been written in s4 especially. First I need to say that I didn't come from any particular biased (or too heavily invested) point before watching volume 2 'cause I don't ship Byler or Mileven, but as a regular fan of the show I always felt that Will was gay (that point has been clear since s3 for me), and after paying closer attention to Mike's character in volume 1, I felt for sure that he was being written as queer coded/ struggling with his sexuality. There are plenty of analysis about this online (some of which I think are reaching a little bit, while others I definitely agree with), but seeing as the show went with the whole I love you declaration / motivational coach speech from Mike to El (which to me kinda cements that Mileven will probably be the endgame tbh); what are your thoughts on the queer coding of Mike and his weirdness towards Will and just his weirdness in general? I'm so conflicted right now, 'cause to me it just doesn't make sense to build this up and not offer it any pay-off. Could you maybe help rationalize this? 'Cause something feels off with the way he was written when comparing vol1 to vol2. TLDR: Is Mike a closeted gay or is he just a lousy friend? What do you think were the Duffers' intentions with his character...?

First of all, I'm glad you like my posts! (: Second of all, it really depends on the direction they take Byler in during S5. I think a lot more people thought Mike was queer after Volume 1 and that can be seen by the influx of followers in the Byler tag. His inability to say that he loves Eleven despite the fact he was able to say it before combined with the way he was acting about Will led a lot of people to think he's actually interested in Will. It seriously makes so much sense for his character for him to be gay and if it turns out he is, that'll be some amazing writing and foreshadowing and some of the best initially subtle queer rep ever.

But I'm really conflicted on canon Byler. I don't want to be a party pooper, but I also don't want to give false hope and I'm going to say I'm skeptical of it, but I really hope to be proven wrong. Volume 2 felt like the perfect opportunity to start making Byler canon but they didn't go down that route and I feel like there's only so much milkvan that I can wave away as platonic. If it happened now, it would feel a bit rushed and fan service-y to me. I will continue to make Byler theories and try to bring some hope to people because I believe it can happen, but I'm also not going to lie about how I feel. I have the disappointed but not surprised outlook on Byler, as in it's a missed opportunity if they don't do it and a shame for the show, but it's not shocking.

So that leaves us with two possibilities. One and the one I prefer: Mike is gay and repressing his feelings for Will by projecting them onto Eleven like Will pretending Eleven asked for stuff but he is starting to work this out so he pushes Will away with the comments like it's not my fault you don't like girls. Two: after S2 without the will they won't they aspect to Mike and Eleven's relationship, the writers didn't know what to do with them so they created random conflicts and breakups so we could have an emotional moment at the end of each season with them. They wanted Mike's friendship with Will to be challenged by the relationship to show Mike is growing up and moving on but Will can't because of his sexuality and because of the loss of his childhood.

I don't think the second option is inherently bad but they've not written it like that. It makes Mike seem like he doesn't love Eleven and that he's an awful friend to Will and a lot of the Mike hate is a response to this poor writing. The actions are very realistic for a teenage boy so I get they don't have to justify it but if you see Mike in the earlier seasons and just how loyal he is, I'm not sure that's something that goes away with puberty. So either they're working towards the goal of Mike being gay and having a big realization coming out arc in S5 or they tried to write conflict into his relationships and it didn't click with a lot of the audience.

But don't lose hope because of that! It does make a ton of sense for Mike to be gay and he's clearly very queer coded. There's a reason so many people cling on to that aspect of him. So if the writers make Byler requited, it does explain a lot of stuff and a lot of analyses are super convincing so who knows. But it could also be weird relationship writing, I'm not going to lie.

Hopefully this post is ok! I'm not trying to be controversial but this is my account created for sharing my opinions on a show I love so I'm not going to pretend that there is a possibility Byler won't be canon although equally there is a possibility that it will be. Thanks for the ask and the compliment :D

[fatechica]

The S5 Mileven AU fic sounds AMAZING but when you this idea "An AU where the events of S1 happen EXCEPT it's Hopper who finds El in the woods, not Mike" is so SUPERIOR. You'll have to write both 😂 (plus all those missing scenes fics of course 🤪)

Aww thank you! I want to write All The Fic, anon - it's just a matter of time and energy this days unfortunately (*le sigh*).

I've had that AU fic idea in mind for years at this point, but the right combination of time and inspiration hasn't quite happened yet. But, if anyone's curious, the longer idea synopsis is that it would take place a few years after S1, where Hopper's been hiding El for a few years, waiting until he was sure no one was looking for her before introducing her into the world.

Joyce would know she exists and would be helping Hopper raise her in secret and they'd enlist Nancy and/or Jonathan to help tutor El so she could eventually go to school.... which is where she'd meet Mike and the rest of the Party.

There'd be a lot of El trying not to reveal what she can do, Will knowing he knows her from somewhere but can't quite remember where, and Mike completely and utterly failing in not falling head over heels for the quiet, shy daughter of the Chief of Police. Eventually, there'd be a reemergence of something Upside Down related which would bring El's backstory into the light, but the good guys would all win and, naturally, we'd get a whole bunch of mileven cuteness along the way (because, hey it's me, what else would you expect?).

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

this is actually what i think will happen as well. somehow someway his feelings for mike will get confirmed (which means his sexuality is confirmed) and/or someone will indirectly talk about how he’s gay. if it’s vecna then he’ll probably do something like pennywise in it by not directly saying it or he’ll just bring up mike. or if he’s not vecna’d (i’ll be incredibly disappointed but you never know at this point) they’ll most likely confirm his feelings for mike in some other way that’s not him directly saying it. like maybe making it obvious the painting is for mike or having him look at mileven together or just something really obvious that ppl can’t deny it (even though straight ppl always will until he says it out loud or someone else does). i think there’s a chance he could up and say it in s5 but i really think him being gay is only going to be indirectly confirmed this season but not come out of his mouth.

It's amazing, but we still don't know when, where, or how the painting will come into play. It's had too much attention drawn to it for it not to be revealed, though.

Maybe the whole "acceptance and mutual understanding" is just an ambiguous, but positive, ending that is expanding on in season 5.

[truessences]

"Why don't you like byler instead of mileven?"

honestly, i think that's like asking why you like chocolate or why you fell in love with XY.

but whatever. they stole my heart from the start. the way they are written and how they treat each other. and when the camera zoomed in on mike and el and the way they looked at each other, i thought something was going to happen between them. and yeah they just everything.

and a single character can be as good as he wants, but you still don't have to like him. i personally find will pretty boring. he had an interesting story in season 2 but that's about it. i don't hate him but he's not in my top 10 either. it's the same with couples. either you like them or you don't.

and honestly, if i would ship mike with a guy, it would be lucas and not will. i just don't feel byler

Thanks for your comment!

I agree! That moment where the camera panned in to El and then went to Mike and zoomed in, I was like awww, young love. I was in it from the jump and have grown to love it so much over the seasons and upon each rewatch.

I agree about Will, like he's fine, but I also find him boring and he's not in my top 10 either... I don't even know if I have a top 10 lol. I have my faves and that's it lol. S2 was amazing for him and Noah Schnapp was absolutely amazing but he's done nothing for me to even really be like "oh yeah I love Will,". He's fine. *shrugs* I do hope he gets more to do in S5 because he's just been there but we'll see lol.

But yeah, people dislike characters just because and dislike ships just because all the time lol

[itsryuworld]

when we talk about byler...

yes, a lot of people know this but i've always thought that byler stands for mike and will but jonathan and nancy as well. that's bc there's a lot of parallels between them and that's something, you know. byler applies for both ships and they really do.

if is it true that the duffel bags made that last scene on porpuse and jancy is endgame, then i have no doubt that mike and will are gonna be endgame too in s5 bc they always showed the similarities in both ships.

nancy/mike was in a relationship with steve/eleven and both couples had troubles with that. nancy in s2 bc she wasn't in love with steve and mike in s4 bc he couldn't tell her that he loves her.

nancy was on a trip with jonathan and then she realized that was in love with jonathan. mike, you know, was on a trip with will (and the cali gang) and obvioulsy something happened there between them bc we had that amazing van scene with will's monologue abt "the heart".

jonathan was in love with nancy before they started dating officially. we already know that will was in love with mike since they were kids.

jonathan/will left this feelings aside and tried to save that relationship with steve/eleven bc he cares for nancy/mike and want she/he to be happy even if is not with him.

if we look into other shows, every time there's a love triangle it is always the second person who actually becomes the true endgame. some random character has a boyfriend/girlfriend and then they meet someone else and fall in love and that's it. we saw this with jancy bc steve was her boyfriend first but she choose jonathan. and if mike has a girlfriend (eleven) and he's going through a lot lately that might means that his relationship is about to get over too.

in s4 both "love triangles" were introduced again bc even if we didn't had the confirmation about will's sexuality and feelings abt mike, we knew that he was in love with him and his stuggles were adressed very clearly. somehow it was showed as a love triangle bc mike and eleven were separated the whole season.

we've been said that will's personal struggles are gonna be important in s5, so his feelings for mike are gonna be important too. why they would do that if it's not reciprocated? why it would be important to adressed his love for mike just to be rejected? it doesn't make sense, really. mike and eleven's relationship wasn't ruined bc of will, but bc they went far away from that "puppy love" and now they're growing and finding out that they don't match as a couple. if stancy was an "official couple" in s1 and they broke up, why it wouldn't be the same for mileven?

in s4, will was introduced as a possible love interest for mike bc he's in EVERY mileven scene the whole season. every scene was focused on will's feelings, not mileven. eleven and mike were separated and will was there for mike. we've seen that mike can't balance between his relationship with eleven and will, he needs to lose the other to be with one of them. this means that mike HAS to CHOOSE one of them. so, yes, will was FINALLY introduced as a love interest for mike. the SECOND one.

why they would put a love triangle in a relation that is supposed to be "endgame" and they already "fixed" their problems at the end of s4? why they would create another problem in their relationship just to be solved at the end of s5? why they would introduce another love interest for mike just to make him choose eleven at the end? that would be useless to the storyline. it wouldn't make sense. so, will has been introduced as a love interest and they need to end some plots (the painting, will's possible -or inevitable-confession, the airport scene, mike's attitude in cali, mike's fake monolgue, etc.) or it would be a huge plot hole. they can't push this things aside in s5, right?

jonathan was the SECOND love interest in nancy's romantic life, and she choose him. will would be the SECOND love interest in mike's romantic life, and probably mike's gonna choose him too.

so, if jancy is endgame (as we can see on the last scene of s4), that confirms that byler is gonna be endgame too bc jancy is practically byler as well.

[lexisworlddddddd]

anyways here are some more tiny mileven ramblings *I’m on mobile bear with me please*

Mike calling El for 353 days after knowing her for like a week is peak soulmate shit I can't even lie they're so cute it makes me sick but like in a good way lol

Season 3 Episode 1; Mike leaves to go see a movie with the rest of the party, and the sun is already down. It's in late June (maybe 1st day of July I can’t remember) so the sunset in Indiana would be like 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM. In the next episode, Mike calls El, and she picks up the phone with "It's 9:32. Where are you?" Are you trying to tell me that Mike and El were spending like full 9 or 10 hour days together the entire summer??? I think that based off of how late Mike was, he was supposed to be there at around 9:00 or 9:15.

“Mike never cared about Elev-“ The first scene we see of Mike in season 4 is literally him almost missing his ride with Nancy to school because he lost track of time reading El’s letter, kindly exit to the door on your left please.

The monologue eats and I will defend it for my life. That’s it. I don’t know how you can look at the monologue and think, “Nah, he’s actually faking it. and they don’t actually love ea-” It quite literally tells the audience how Mike feels about El what do you meannnn 😭 It was a very pivotal and big moment for their relationship.

Also I can’t remember where I saw it but someone pointed out that the hand Mike was holding when he gave his monologue was the same hand El fought with after she released herself from the vines (when Mike tells her to ‘FIGHT!’), and also how whenever she is in trouble she calls for Mike, and the one time she can’t speak, Mike is already there for her. They are endgame, your honor.

Spoilers for the timeline in season 5 so don’t keep reading if you don’t want to theorize or hear about anything regarding it!

With the timeskip(s) that is/are supposed to happen, as the potential graduation scene and Lucas and Max watching Ghost (1990), I want the Duffers to give us a timeskip into the Party at prom and have a parallel between the Snow Ball with Mileven and the prom scene like I genuinely think that would go so hard and the edits would be SCRUMPTIOUS.

also screw crosstaggers lol.

[you-usuratonkachi]

I agree with you on Will "deserving" to bother Mike with his feelings they're practically rating him alive at this point hut the fact is that there's not enough time for him to still be down bad for mike and get a love interest in s5 and if they have him stuck in unrequited love with a straight guy the entire time he's the only gay boy on the show and the only one without a requited love interest and it's gross like they torture the poor boy all the time so what are they saying if your gay you deserve to constantly suffer and no one is ever gonna love you romantically they've backed themselves into a corner with the way they wrote this story because no matter how you spin it Will deserves better.

Agree, which is why i'm still hanging onto the hope that it won't be one sided after all. It would be the best outcome and they could still manage it wonderfully if they place all the pieces together properly.

If, for example, El breaks up with Mike at the beginning of S5, picking up where we left off and we get insight on Mike's behavior in S4 through flashbacks (Vecna or otherwise) and find out that he was uncomfortable around Will because of how /he/ felt about Will, then it's still feasable.

They could even leave it open ended if they think it's too soon to make them have something after Mike breaking up with El, but with clear hints that's gonna be reciprocated (it's not the best outcome but eh i guess i'd take it). Then again, there's gonna be a time skip, so if they do go the first route, it wouldn't feel too out of place if Mileven is broken up for a couple years, you know?

There are still ways to make it happen. A lot of things point to them wanting to make it happen too, so I'm not sure how I should feel yet.

While I do not enjoy the idea of Will ending up being the gay guy who pined for his straight best friend and got jack shit, if they plan to make it one sided, after all, they can AT LEAST make them have amazing scenes together where Mike does love him as a TRUE friend and not whatever he's doing right now.

It would be bittersweet, but still, I'd rather they handled it emotionally than them not handling it at all. If they just swept it all under the rug, what was the point of Will being THAT in love with Mike? They could have given him a puppy crush and make him fall for someone else SO EASILY.

But they didn't.

They made him suffer so badly, framed him in all Mileven's scenes this season, made him sacrifice his feelings to fix Mileven's relationship, made him feel like a mistake.

This whole narrative needs to be fixed. There was no reason to have him in ALL Mileven scenes (that weren't them arguing). This MUST be leading somewhere and it cannot be more Will suffering for nothing. Even the Duffers must know that.

So yeah, it's not like I'm against the new love interest idea, it's just... I hope they know they are walking on thin ice here. Will's feelings for Mike NEED a resolution. An heartfelt, honest, thought-out and emotional one. Whatever happened in S4 is not resolution. They better not believe it is.

AFTER that, maybe, they can give him a new love interest. If you ask me it would still suck because I can't imagine him falling for someone else at this point, but yeah. I guess. If they write it well.

If they write it well, anything is still possible really.

Can they write it well, though?

[friedhumanoidhorseapricot]

STRANGER THINGS S4 V1&2 BYLER SPOILER

If byler (will x mike) isn't Canon by the end of S5 then everything was just queerbating and the Duffer Brothers are fucking done for.

It's been hyped on Social Media EVERYWHERE. Official Netflix accounts teasing byler content, posts from NOAH who is the literal ACTOR FOR WILL saying he ships them, multiple interviews where byler and will's sexuality is discussed hinting heavily at it becoming official; I could go on.

Major hype from all the actors regarding Byler in vol.2 which actually turned out to be a ginormously misleading

ALL THE MOMENTS BETWEEN MIKE AND WILL THROUGHOUT THE SEASONS!!!

The obvious queer-coding directed at not only Will but Mike as well and the amazing chemistry between them (which admit it mileven doesn't have)

Let's not forget the as of currently 318-page-long-slide-show dedicated to byler.

~

Stranger Things is one of, if not the most popular show on Netflix. They gave us one queer character with a coming-out scene (Robin) and in S4 gave her a love interst who got less than ten minutes of screen time total so its more than possible they'll just chicken out compleatly with byler and if they do SO HELP ME GOD I will cancel my Netflix subscription instantly. So much of Vol.2 was unnecessary and dragged on. What could have instead gone to scenes about Will/Mike and give them development instead went to the Russian plot line which god I loved but really ate up screen time (so did everything with Eleven in the lab. Most of that was over complicated and unnecessary) . They focused the prot to the wrong things and killing off Eddie was just...cmon Duffel Bags. You didn't need ro do that

The Duffel Bags are most likely queer-bating byler to attract more LGBTQ+ viewers to watch the show and I really hope they aren't because that would just be so disgusting.

[lliaq]

mhm man do I have conflicting feelings about Vol 2 (this is prob gonna be kinda rambly and all over the place but I have Thoughts™ and I need to put them down)

okay first of all I gotta commend Sadie, like she absolutely killed it this season. Definitely one of the highlights. Caleb too. That attic scene- oof. I was just straight up bawling. Max and Lucas were never my favorites (didn’t dislike them either, they were just sorta in the middle for me), but they really felt like the heart of the show more than anything or anyone this season. Which is ironic given Will’s whole speech about Mike being the heart like-the fuck where? 

I just- do not like Mike. At all. idk what it is, if it’s the acting, writing, or both, but he feels so incredibly unsympathetic as a character. He was also one of those middle characters for me at first, but unlike Max and Lucas he’s just been dropping down season by season and I literally can’t stand him now. Slow clap for that A+ character assassination. He only exists as Eleven’s bf now, and doesn’t seem to care about any of his friends, or anyone, really. And don’t even get me started on how they used Will’s feelings and sexuality “storyline” to further Mileven. there’s already a hundred posts about that, so I’m just not gonna even go there.

Another slow clap for the incredible Queerbaiting (listen idec that much if Byler becomes canon or not, but they 100% used Will’s sexuality and the potential of Byler to hype up the show and string queer audiences along(during Pride month, no less), it is textbook queerbaiting)

Mileven is also one of those ships that I don’t care about. Might have to do with my dislike for Mike, but something about it just doesn’t click for me. And boy did I feel that lack of investment during Mike’s monologue. Made the entire scene just completely fall flat for me. But where I was mostly ambivalent about them in S3, I’m actively rooting for them to break up now lol. Eleven, girl, get out of there.

Like, genuinely, her character feels like it’s stuck. Or like going in circles. I think she’d have more room to grow without Mike. idk I’m too tired to be big brain about this rn

Anyways, moving on. Dustin felt a little sidelined this season. Like what even was his arc? Being Eddie’s friend (just for Eddie to die)? Wow, great. Amazing. But y’know, same thing with Jonathan and Will. Maybe they just have too many characters at this point. 

Couldn’t care less about Jonathan and Nancy as a couple. I’m not a big shipper (regardless of canon status), so if a relationship isn’t actually interesting...I just won’t care. They’re boring to me, that’s all I really have to say. I’m not fully on board the potential Steve/Nancy train, if they’re even going there in S5. Def felt like that’s what they were setting up. I’ve seen some people say that them getting back together would undo their character growth and I don’t know if I agree with that either, like... if they got back together, it would literally be because they spent time apart, growing as individuals. What they had before wasn’t working, but they’re not those people anymore, that’s the whole point. It would only be regression if they got back together and went back to being exactly like they were in S1/2.

I mean, in an ideal world I would hope for Ronance, and Steve ending up either with someone else or single, but...I’m not gonna hold my breath for that, lol. After all, they gave us copy-paste lesbians. Great representation, pack it up everybody. You know what, I’ll give that one another slow clap.  I’m always down for more wlw rep, but that was half-assed at best. More like quarter-assed. 

Steve also felt, idk, sidelined in the sense that he just went back to pining about Nancy and that was really all there is. Idk honestly it felt like a lot of characters were just kind of there, this season. Like, they participated in the plot....and that was it. And some barely even did that. Again, might be an overcrowding issue.

I’m sorta meh about the Russia plot. Murray is ok, I guess, but the over the top kind of comedy they use him for isn’t my cup of tea, so he’ll never be my favorite. I’m pretty ambivalent about Jopper as well. It’s one of those ships where I’m like I’m fine if it happens, and I’m fine if it doesn’t. I will say that my perception of Hopper still hasn’t fully recovered from whatever the fuck they did with his character in S3, but it’s getting there, I guess?

Joyce...went to get her man. Good for her, I guess. idk, don’t really have much to say.

Eddie though- man. Boy. He’s like the definition of deserved better. My man thought 86 was going to be his year and then it all went to complete and utter shit. I can’t say I’m surprised they killed him. He’s the Barb/Bob/Alexei of this season, with the exception that he was probably more of a fan favorite than any of the other 3. The thing about his death is just... it seems so pointless. I know they painted it as this whole Hero moment, he decided to fight instead of run, yadda yadda. But really he died in a “sacrificial” act that was ultimately meaningless and didn’t accomplish anything, he died being hated by an entire town, and I assume they left his body in the Upside Down bc he was officially “missing” still, so...he didn’t even get a burial.  He’s like one of the very few characters that went through actual character growth this season , and he died for it. Good one. (here, I’ll toss in another slow clap) I did feel the lack of reactions was odd at first, but then I thought about it a bit and remembered that the timeframe of this season is pretty short. Idk how long exactly, but I’m pretty sure it’s a week or less, and he spent a decent amount of that time in hiding. So most of the others spent like a couple hours total with him, maybe. I’d have expected something from Lucas, though. Mike apparently doesn’t care about anyone other than El, so that tracks lol. But the only one we’ve seen affected at all was Dustin (and Eddie’s uncle). So, it was still a little lackluster.

Anyways, yeah idk. Visually, the show is still stunning (even if the CGI was actually not that great in a lot of shots, imho), and there were some standout moments. I loved the one-take shootout (I’m a sucker for long one-takes, DD hallway fights my beloveds), and of course the entire Running Up That Hill Sequence, which might be my favorite scene in the entire show. But some of these writing choices really soured it for me.

This very much feels like a case of It could have been great, the potential was there, but they didn’t stick the landing.

[kaypeace21]

Hiya, I actually have a question for you (btw I LOVE your theories and they make so much sense to me, THEYRE AMAZING). I was wondering how overall you expect Stranger Things to play out from the start of season 4 till where you think it’ll end. In terms of like Byler, the Upside Down, Eleven etc. If you have the time I’d love to see your overall opinion on it!

Aw , thanks . I’ve talked about alot of plot points already. But I am purposely withholding some things for just an ungodly long post where i talk about pretty much everything (cause it all is very interconnected). I haven’t really gotten into (Lonnie/ jonathan/ joyce’s storylines, byler drama relating to Lonnie, road trips,Will the wises’ return, my assumption of the series finalie/ all the crazy shit in s5. Or- THE MOST DYSFUNCTIONAL BIRTHDAY DINNER -in tv history (in s4), no not exaggerating.  

But I have talked about other stuff (you mentioned) already.

Hellfire club/ ‘satanic panic’/ hawkins plot line,  and how it connects to El/kali/brenner- here & in more depth  here.

like 80% of Hopper’s plotline, some of  El’s/kali’s/ Will’s pethurst storyline and how it connects to the upsidedown / Will’s trauma-here, here here

byler and mileven in s4-here

But lol, after I re-glance at some movies and when I have the time - I’ll eventually write that giant s4-5 theory post. it’ll just take forever to write. And I’m not looking forward to writing it and having to find the best way to explain all the interconnected storybeats  while also juggling to explains things in a non chronological way. Plus all the photos I have to take/ and then edit. IT’LL TAKE DAYS/maybe weeks!!!! XD

When I finally write it i want it to be the best/as accurate as it can possibly be. So i’m not in a huge rush tbh- especially cause. Lol I just got a new job,and am moving to a new city for it , just got a new phone, preparing to eventually go to grad school (which has alot of tasks to it) - a lot is going on on my end right now XD. But I'm still trying to be involved in the Fandom cause I enjoy it/ like writing / theorizing about the show. :D

A lot of the posts where i mentioned s4 ideas are labeled #s4 theory #stranger things theory and #did theory if curious of things you may have missed - which were not linked here. 

[appleofmyowneyes]

Hi, am not new here (incase you think) but have been rolling around this tag since long ago without being noticed.

It was by the end of 2019 my yt thought to surprise me with a recommended video of how mileven isn’t a compatible couple- but was shocked by the mike and will ship video like how they are real. At first i was like pfft - really? Aren’t they like bro bra besties but damn that video was the end of me.

Before i used to ship mil*even and was pretty obsessed with their sweetness (even after s3) however, that damn video completely changed my perspective and i was like WHAT THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE byler makes so much sense. Then my journey started as a pro hardcore delusional byler (I didn’t mind being or being called delusional for my byler heart).

I adore them so much i even started reading fanfics. Never in my life i read fanfics before especially about two teen boys - i mean who wanted to invest their time on reading about two fictional characters who aren’t even canon, right? Well i did.

I have no counts how many fics i read and felt giddy at the thought of them being together for real in the series with different made up scenarios in my head.

There was a time I didn’t even care about myself or my life coz it already sucks - only byler made my heart glow and the rest annoyed me as hell like i never thought i would care about two fictional characters more than myself, my health or my friends and family.

There’s was also a time when I stopped lurking in the tag and started joining different fandoms - byler was obviously the portal that opened a new way for my journey as a shipper (can also call me a fujoshi). No matter what book i read or see a movie I would always imagine them in any character and think “what if byler were in the similar situation” gosh the makers seemed to make them look head over heels for some reason - only to end it in despair and disruption.

Perhaps the writing and the direction or the actions of the characters plus the acting by the actors didn’t go hand in hand. But u know what i am still not losing my hope on byler. Would still loved to being a delusional dork for shipping the most amazing duo in my life. I mean look at their faces . I never saw that sincerity in Mike’s face for El, I don’t know why. For some reasons mil*even doesn’t seem to fit the bill for a couple - yeah i know they tried to portray that every couple have got struggles and no one is perfect. But damn when u compare mil*even with byler than of course i feel more connected to byler (btw am a heterosexual woman). They make me fall in love with love. That pure and soft gaze, clarified conversations without embellishing any words, sickening chemistry - i mean i might be wrong but mil*even for some reasons feels off. Maybe the actors- Finn seems to be less involved in the scenes but mbb putting all her efforts and that could be seen in her acting and of course i am not saying Finn is a bad actor but he’s kinda doomed with the ship.

Anyways, sorry for my little rant - but i really for some reasons not losing my hopes on byler, not until the end of s5. Call me delusional but heck yeah i still ship the sweetest, amazing fanon couple.

Why? It’s simple i love them too much to give up on them too soon. I know we all are disappointed by the outcome of v2. Ngl i pretty much expected that coz it was obvious - they were dragging mil*even towards the whole ily fiasco which was pretty obvious. But but u can think you’re in deep deep love with someone without it being romantic. I know they were cute and all and in love - but do u actually think at the mere age of 14 or 15 we completely realise that what the heck love actually is. Of course might be but not ready to go all the way. It was more like a heat of the moment like i never express my love towards my sister or my parents but once when my sister was seriously ill i bursted into tears and said all those sappy things like, I don’t want to lose or i ll die if u die (later sure regretted). My point is they are in love but not in the right love they both might subconsciously needed. Mike needs someone who understands him, tells him the truth, fix him, bear him, who’s into the same stuffs he likes (not necessarily but who knows him more than will) and tells him how great he’s. I bet Mike just took will’s advice a little too far and applied it with his own logic and the scenario. Of course he was scared to lose her and i admit his life literally started the moment he met El (i mean the whole series literally started with that) - she’s like a saviour for him - a superhero- a beautiful human whom he taught about life.

Whereas El needs herself and a family- she needs to control her anger and espouse a normal teenage life. Mike idolised El more than love and he thinks that’s love - it is love, but a different kind of love and bond which is beautiful.

In conclusion i still have faith in byler. I believe the leap in the series will help both El and Mike to figure themselves out and for Will he needs to open up more. I know it’s scary to open up in the 80s but he can with his family and friends - pent up emotions can be detrimental even if i am talking about a fictional character but he means alot to me.

Ps: please excuse my grammar and typos. I love u all and sorry for my unnecessary not needed rant.