#s3 better explore what happened in ny

[sarcasmcloud]

[kaypeace21]

The theme with “time” this season makes me think of the phrase, “wanting to turn back the clock.” And I then think of Will never wanting to grow up and wanting to go back to the old days of playing dnd in Mike’s basement.

And then I think of Will’s (speculated) reality altering bending powers. So could there be a possibility that Will may use those powers to “turn back the clock”?? Maybe rewrite how things happened? Maybe it would be after Mike’s “death” like you speculated earlier. Since he thinks Mike is “dead” he wants to go back, and that’s what he does accidentally.

ALSO, Hopper tells joyce that he was trying to runaway from his "past" trauma with sara- before he says that line in the letter about wanting to turn back the clock and then saying it's not possible to do so . (And that life life hurts you but eventually you get out of that cave and life goes on ). Similar to Will he wants to turn back the clock to better times, but a part of him isn't ready to accept his entire past/ the tra*uma that comes with that- in order to move on and heal for the future .

Like robin said about back to the future "he's stuck in the past .But he needs to get back to his time which is the future!"

HOWEVER- I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY REAL TIME TRAVEL!!!!

I’ve mentioned  my time-theory many many many times- in relation to my DID theory.  even if my did theory is completely wrong (aka Will has powers so his alters/split personalities/innerworlds come to life)- 

We also see how memories are explored in a supernatural way in st - it’s not literal timetravel just El using her powers to explore tra*matic memories of others (Terry/Billy so far). Like NO TIME TRAVEL PLEASE-THAT’S JUMPING THE SHARK. I really don’t want it lol. XD I think hopper and Robin's lines allude to the theme that will be addressed: confronting the past/times that harmed you but overcoming it for the future because time goes on 'whether you like it or not '.

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In reference to my time-did theory. Look at the st s4 movie inspirations. In ‘what dreams may come”  a guy explores a heaven like world influenced by a painter’s emotions/created via immagination.We also have the movie ‘inside out’ -which involves “memory islands” (distinct worlds based on a child’s memories) which are influenced negatively by the kid being depressed she moved to California. The characters traveling to these memory islands are constructs of  kid’s mind -and 1 of them also has a guide helping them explore the ‘memory islands’.  Welcome to marwen- has an artist (attacked for being perceived as gay) imagining an abstract world based off his art- where the characters he made experience their own adventures (loosely based off the artist’s trauma). ‘The cell ‘ has characters explore the mind of a guy whose father ab*sed him- and the different alternative fantasy-worlds they explore are based off his memories. The cop exploring these memory-worlds, was also implied to be se*ually ab*sed by his dad . Also,in  Inception a guy says he’s a construct of a guy’s mind ( the guy who created the dream worlds that are like alternate dimensions/levels- also hates his dad). And leo’s character says he needs to help him escape the many different levels of the dream world of the mind. Movies like inception, total recall, the cell, enter the void, wizard of oz, Peter Pan, hellraiser 2, dream warriors, bill & ted’s bogus journey, the labyrinth,and welcome to marwen, all allude to this: because they involve entering simulated abstract worlds usually created/based on happy& traumatic memories/fears. While truman show/matrix are more about realizing your reality isn’t real. While in bladerunner 2044/total recall it has the theme of false implanted memories… probably relating to hopper/el realizing they’re alters of Will’s-and their memories were technically created by him.

Something some DiD suffers have are “innerworlds” .When someone has DID there can be multiple “innerworlds” that are separate from one another (and look very different from one another) .And are usually very abstract worlds that are based on the child’s memories (good &bad) . These worlds are usually created at different times and almost act like alternate dimensions (and the inhabitants -npcs/alters of those worlds usually don’t interact with one another) . So they can almost resemble alternate dimensions like how Scott Clarke mentions “Hugh Everett’s many worlds interpretation.” Russia where Hopper is- is probably one of those innerworlds.

HOPPER THEORY: 

tw:ab*se/r*pe. In s2 Nancy asks Steve how his “grandpa’s time in the war is a metaphor for your life?” And steve compares the mf to the germans in the war. Dr owens mentions Will has ptsd like “ (vietnam) soldiers’, Hopper saying he had buddies like Will . “In the 70s there was a study that compared the post-traumatic stress symptoms in Vietnam veterans and adult survivors of childhood s**ual ab*se. The study revealed that childhood s**ual ab*se is traumatizing and can result in symptoms comparable to symptoms from war-related trauma.” Hopper isn’t actually in Russia -but in one of the innerworlds (after he jumped through the rift of the machine- into Will’s mind). We’ll see flashbacks but also present circumstances of his imprisonment echo Will’s past with Lonnie (if the movies indicate anything)- being starved, guards getting payed in order to let other prisoners  r*pe a gay prisoner (than claim incorrectly because of his sexuality he wanted it) , as well as a gang of sadist men who r**e others and a warden using that as a threat to be compliant , being thrown in a dark room of solitary confinement and starved when they didn’t obey the warden, the warden being religious, etc. And the American soldiers (in Vietnam) in the movies aren’t much better and do similarly horrific acts to civilians like r**e and bragging/ happily k*lling women, children, and the elderly. The drill sergant in vietnam calling them homophobic slurs & women, and chocking one of the soldiers with one hand (like the mf/russian), slapping one for not believing in christianity. Tying up a soldier in a bed , gagging him, beating him and saying “remember it’s just a dream.” Only praising them when good in fire arms.(movies : fullmetal jacket, papillon, shawshank redemption, platoon, welcome to marwen, etc ) . My assumption is flashbacks of his life-  hints about him being an alter -the boxes in the basement are “vietnam” ,“dad”, and “ny” (and these are the memories of his we’ll see).or after escaping the prison he’s stuck in diff innerworlds of memories. And some of the bad characters in said stories will also parallel Lonnie . Like how in  the s4 film ‘peterpan’- the young girl Wendy imagines netherland and the villain -captain hook- is based off her father ( in the movie they have the same voice actors/while in all stage productions the 2 characters are always played by the same actor). Similar to the other s4 film- ‘wizard of oz’ where the wicked witch of the west from the mythical land of Oz (is played by Dorothy’s real life mean neighbor in the real world/kansas).Or in ‘the cell’- all the alternate dimensions of the dream world that were created by a guy with a ab*sive h*mophobic dad -had the same actor play the villain in each very different dream dimension. ”Not sure if they’d use Ross Patridge (actor of Lonnie) in this way . But it would be very interesting if (In makeup) Ross played many negative people in Hopper’s life.  

Also, in  s2, Jonathan mentions Indiana writer Vonnegut- In his book ‘slaughterhouse 5′- Vonnegut begins the story of Billy (William) Pilgrim, a man who has “come unstuck in time”. (time ref of Hopper saying he wants to ‘turn back the clock.’ or’ runaway from his memories.‘It accounts of Billy Pilgrim’s capture and incarceration by the Germans during the last years of World War II (Hopper captured by the russians), and scattered throughout the narrative are episodes from Billy’s life with his dad, and his own wife and kids.Billy is forced to be part of the war and similar things against his free will. The moments start from his childhood when his father throws him in the water to teach him how to swim. He was unwillingly drafted into the war. Later, he is kidnapped by Tralfamadorians  (aliens that are implied to be caused by his mental health issues/trauma) against his will. Therefore, he realizes that this concept is just an illusion.in bladerunner 2044/total recall it has the theme of false implanted memories… probably relating to hopper realizing he’s an alter and his memories are technically ‘created’ . Like in total recall- the bad ass spy is told all his memories: his wife/ years of marriage,  his name, are just implanted memories. And she says “you’re life is a dream.” We also have ‘Arrival’ -the parent’s daughter died young cause of terminal cancer- and the mother later realizes time is also just a abstract construct (a thing she can experience differently than others), but she still finds meaning/happiness in those memories/times.

I also talked about how sarah as an alter could come back and the 2 would explore the “innerworlds” of Will’s mind together (you can read the details there). 

El and Will theory 

I’m thinking of the s4 movies and 1 matrix scene comes to mind that could be an obvious hint to Did (and Will’s importance). Mr smith (the suited calm villain/ who is a literal computer program of the matrix world -cough alter/npc of Will’s) kidnaps/ ties up Morpheus to a chair (like Will in s2), injects him with drugs in the neck ( like s3 steve/ will’s arm in s2).  Then Mr smith says as everyone leaves the room “I’m going to be honest with you. I hate this place, this prison, this reality or what you call it.” (grabs Morpheus’ head and glares) “ I need to get out of here! I need to be free! And this mind is the key.”(referring to morpheus).morpheus also translates to ‘god of dreams’. Also Morpheus was wearing head gear similar to El in s1/Will in s2 . or in 12 monkeys the guy sent to psych ward -starts believing he’s just “crazy” and says “i created a world with those people in it.” “It’s not real .I’m just mentally ill, like you said ” when you know- it is all real,cause of the supernatural angle involved. in 12 monkeys a patient even tells him the fictional world he created would dissappear once his mental health was in order.

Then there’s the El stuff.  Hellraiser 2- has a normal psych hospital, but the basement floor has an evil psychiatrist experimenting on teens to open a portal to another reality. assasains creed/dream warriors -  has the psychiatric facility be similar to the s1 lab with sensory deprivation tanks, cameras, solitary confinement in dark rooms.The doctor experiments on them- and forces a character to go into the memories of another individual (we know El has memory powers).The dr reveals how the character’s reality/whole life isn’t what they think it is (and that the memories they saw with their powers-was their past life and they are that person’s reincarnation) . Aka Will is the host- and El is an alter (alters can see memories of other alters/the host irl-aka billy/terry were also alters ).

In assasain’s creed there’s 2 psychiatrists- one bad / one who is good (but influenced by the bad dr). One dr annoyed at the lack of progress, says about the patient “he doesn’t want to remember his father.” While one dr doesn’t want to rush the therapy/ the other dr wants the patient to go back into his memories regardless of how it affects him. (which could be Brenner & maybe Owens referring to Will’s dissociative-amnesia and not remembering all the ab*se Lonnie did. And Owens not wanting to rush it/hurt el by making her go into said memories …but Brenner not caring.

also other hints : Cough s4 using the movie wizard of oz refs “we’re not in Hawkins (kansas) anymore”-hint at russia. David on instagram posting st stuff and captioning it with and quotes, pretending to be dorothy from the film. Hopper in s1 saying hawkins lab was “emerald city” (referencing El- it’s also why they reference El entering our world in ep 1 and the alice in wonderland song plays) . Murray says about the supernatural “no one wants to see behind the curtain” (what was behind the curtain in wizard of oz-was a wizard aka Will). Or you know right before Will sees the mf for the first time -a clock turns rapidly/ he  has goosbumps at the back of his neck. Which he later grabs/states  are from “memories” he can’t remember that are like a “dream”. 

If i’m right-not sure how much of this may happen in s4 vs s5, though. But I think something like this is possible.  For all we know-Will/El being trapped with Brenner while Hopper escapes ‘russia’ could be how the season ends? The timeline i’m a bit iffy about-tbh.

[prettygraceful]

ok, i’ve been telling my dad this for months and i thought i’d finally share here. here is my dream scenario for when shadowhunters comes back (since i still keep hope that it will). and by that i mean what should happen- within realistic parameters- that i think would bring the show more general positive reactions, a larger fanbase, and stable success to ensure many more wonderful seasons. so we pick up shortly after where the epilogue left off- with the mains divided into the new york group and the alicante group- and they stay split up. this allows for 2 “A” storylines to run concurrently to allow for a wider audience to stay invested and more character dynamics to be fully explored, instead of shoved into rushed, very limited screentime “B” and “C” storylines. i’m thinking similar to daenerys and jon snow (pre s7) in GOT, aka equally important main leads.

clary remains the hub of the NY squad, as she’s always been. she is the favored female of the fandom, and this still honors the spirit of the books. alec becomes the hub of the alicante squad. he is the favored male of the fandom (tv time’s recent poll had him at more votes than the next 2 guys combined. he had over 700,000 while jace and magnus only had over 300,000 apiece. clary was at over 200,000). ok, we’ve got the chosen by logic “hubs” so let’s talk the “spokes”. 

NY squad includes jace, obviously, and simon, izzy, maia. but instead of sizzy or saia, they slowly develop into a polyamorous throuple. this accomplishes many things: 1st, the shippers could make peace. 2nd, maia would have a solid link to who’s always been the center of SH: the lightwoods family. and 3rd, it could trim the fat, so to speak. instead of having supporting character wlw (heline, ollie, sam- all stereotypically characterized tv wlw, who only ate up screentime that should’ve gone to the downworlder mains imo) the wlw rep could be izzy and maia- already fleshed out mains. after spending time together resulting in unlocking some feelings, they could all get together since they both still care for simon too. now they’d have to be bi/ pan obviously- so no lesbian rep- but as a lesbian myself, i’m averse to the idea that every show has to “check every box”. quality over quantity. a trio of only POC is original vs just another wlw pair with 1 white person. as long as it was written properly, it could avoid bi stereotypes. 

now the NY squad has all the different dynamic options to explore that this fandom seems to love (clace, climon, clizzy, claia, sizzy, saia, jimon, and jaia. and the jace/ izzy dynamic can finally get it’s dues!) and with a 3 POC to 2 white ratio, it’s better diversity than when things always revolved around the squad of shadowhunters in s1 thru s3. meliorn can join the fun sometimes. clary gets her powers back, but hopefully without the “mary sue” aspect. when the solution for everything was often just being shown new runes and drawing them, where was the earned achievement? (versus like when valentine was defeated, she did that!) generally, self-made heroes- rather than “born special”- are more relatable and inspirational. like arya vs daenerys- who was born able to hatch dragons in fire. she achieved so much, but without the dragons- like clary’s angel powers- none of it would’ve been possible. then again, i know daenerys is very popular, so my preference in hero types obviously isn’t universal. so either way, i guess.

on to the alicante squad (my personal favs)! magnus and luke have obviously already joined alec here, and they’re rebuilding the shadowhunter homebase to be an accepting environment. there has to be an actual lengthy, difficult power struggle here- an extremely prejudiced regime like the clave wouldn’t just topple overnight. maryse is here too and should be bumped up to be a main. then it’d be 4 women to 5 men as our mains- much more balanced. then 1 or 2 new lady characters could be introduced. let’s get some new blood on the show! and to appropriately fit into the already existing dynamic here, it’d be best if they were 30+ in age. (and hopefully they cast taller ladies, cuz aside from the mother roles- jocelyn and maryse- all of them have been 5′2″ to 5′5″ and it’s time to mix it up). they can develop solid friendships with our squad. also the parabatri needs to finally get it’s dues, since we’ve been robbed long enough. ok, and so with 1 shadowhunter, 1 downworlder, 1 sh turned dw turned sh again, and 1 sh turned mundane, there’s a lot of different perspectives here. and the new ladies could have their own unique perspectives as well. so it’d be very interesting for there to be problems they all must solve, but they each have their own ideas on how to go about it. thru compromise at times- and deferring to the one who’s perspective lends a better insight other times- they’d have innovative solutions.

to address why mizzy instead of either with clary, why the new women would probably not be wlw, and why the “hubs” are both white- it’s cuz the point of this post is me throwing in my 2 cents on what changes could be made- in the hands of new showrunners and now that we’re free of the book material- but is still possible, realistic, and viable given the way the industry machine works, and the demographic of this fandom. i’d also like to note that i just really want raphael and catarina gone, since they refuse to let magnus interact with them! they each only had 4 eps with him, yet they’re his “family”? it became beyond absurd! raphael= none in s1. 1 in s3. catarina= none in s1/ s2. only 1 in 3b- 3x22 doesn’t count cuz they didn’t talk at all. and for those who’d balk at alec being separated from jace and izzy, i say- have you never met adult siblings? it’s healthy, normal, and encouraged in society, that when siblings grow up, they go their own separate ways and live independent lives. forge their own paths. it does not mean they love their siblings any less. i have a sister, i should know. 

in conclusion, the 2 separate squads would have their own adventures in the first 8 episodes of each half season. i think most everyone agrees that politically driven themes- dealt with symbolically thru this fantasy world- would make for better story arcs rather than just good vs evil (val, jonathan, lilith) all the time (esp since SH doesn’t have the budget to make fantasy elements very exciting). since there is a nice ratio of shadowhunters and downworlders in each squad, the set up for these themes would already be in place. and then much like any show that has divided storylines, at some point you’ve got to bring them all together. this could happen in the 9th episode. a wedding or holiday celebration or whatever. they could all sit around a giant table and have a feast and this ep could just be warm and fuzzy. lightwood family time- including magnus/ jace’s long overdue friendship- and a chance for them all to reconnect, until the last scene of the ep when some big bad guy dramatic problem could arise. then the final ep of the half season could be them all working together (as a whole or separately in smaller groups) to defeat the big bad (save the budget and the big fantastical sets/ creatures for the finales). end on an exciting cliffhanger. ta da!