#ryden sun and moon

[getaroomryden]

Ryden + Lyrics from Folie à Deux by Fall Out Boy

[romanticfistfightz]

2018/2019 was a hard time but god it was so good.

[jetstargf]

fuck it. do u think ryan is the sun or the moon in northern downpour

[live-in-denver]

reading the ryden sun and moon master post and then listening to pretty odd is like coke to me

[prettyoddfever]

the sun/moon theory doesn’t actually make sense

The pictures above are from 9/23/06, which was the only time that Ryan wore blue makeup at the same time that Brendon wore yellow makeup. The guys weren’t the ones who came up with their look, either. That makeup came from Pieter M van Hattem’s heavily styled photoshoot earlier that day and then the band wore the leftover makeup to the Boost Mobile RockCorps performance. 

Now fast forward almost a year to when they were working on Pretty. Odd. songs...

The Pretty. Odd. lyrics had a lot of weather references because the band wrote most of the album while sitting in Ryan’s backyard on drugs and looking at clouds or whatever you see at night in the desert. Brendon told the Boston Globe that “I’m sure if the weather was really horrible, [the new album] might’ve sounded different. It definitely needed to be what it was for us to write those songs.” Brendon also said: 

“We spent a lot of time outside when we were writing the record. We wrote it in the hottest month of the year in Las Vegas. We had a weird sleeping schedule, too. We pretty much stayed up all night and slept during the day just because it is so hot there. So we spent a lot of time looking at the stars and enjoying and experiencing the weather so I think that had a very direct influence on us.”

Then weather and clouds and nature became part of the Pretty. Odd. era’s early theme that the band talked about (also look at the custom car they designed, or the set design for the Honda Civic Tour where Ryan said they wanted to make it feel like the show was happening outdoors). Flowers, weather, the sun & moon, and nature in general were part of that era because that’s what influenced the band while they were writing the songs (and also Jon Walker exists lol. he had a major influence on that album). A big theme with their songwriting in summer 2007 was to keep things simple & lighthearted.

WTDMTN was one of the early songs that they wrote that summer (the band played it for the first time on August 5th). Their interviews made it sound like the guys just watched night meet day a lot that summer, took some drugs, and wrote a cute story. Jon seemed so happy with that song’s fairy tale quality too! He said “We had this idea that the day and the night met each other… it’s basically a fairytale story about two times a day falling in love with each other and the world being day & night at the same time consecutively somehow.” Ryan said this song was like a kid’s story. He had also spent over half a year working on the cabin album’s fairytale-esque storyline (with Spencer’s help) and it had become so elaborate that he was considering writing an accompanying book. Just because they scrapped the cabin album and majorly switched directions for their second album doesn’t mean they lost all of their previous interests... it made sense that they might still gravitate towards a fairy-tale quality a bit.

I think the idea that anything on Pretty. Odd. could actually have some Ryden subtext comes from people who weren’t closely observing the season when the band wrote those lyrics. Brendon & Ryan were not that close in the last half of 2007. Ryan was way better friends with Jon by that summer... they talked about living together, watching movies or writing songs together in the middle of the night, going bowling or to see movies, etc. They were definitely close. There were pictures of them hanging out offstage. Ryan hung out with a lot of other Vegas friends throughout 2007 too. Meanwhile, Brendon talked about hanging out with Spencer and Shane that fall. Brendon & Ryan were together when they had to do band-related events (but even a few of those moments showed a shifting dynamic between the two guys). The guys were definitely still friends! But it’s a stretch when you try to paint a picture where they were in love & obsessed with each other this season to the point of writing lyrics about each other.

The only part of all the sun/moon conspiracy stuff that even slightly works is the idea that Jon Walker might have used the reference as a code in his post-split lyrics to get his own point across (ex: then his lyrics would imply that he doesn’t need Ryan & Brendon to tell him what to do). That doesn’t mean anything beyond the fact that Jon had always been super aware of what the fandom was saying and knew how to communicate on our level. Seriously, he followed the talk online in 2006-2007 SO closely and would even leave subtle references in his journal entries to things the fandom was talking about. Sometimes he was just messing with us (example at the bottom of this post). Some fans had actual “hi Jon” icons on lj towards the end of the Fever era because most people knew he was watching. In October 2006 the PATD livejournal got set to private for a short time and Jon posted on the band’s website “whats with the live journal being down, someone fix it :(” because now he couldn’t properly creep on that particular fan community while the band was on tour lol. 

He shared SO much of his photography with fans (including in the band’s album and his picturesatthedisco photobucket) and was just way more involved with us than the other 3 guys. So any sun/moon reference that Jon might have made in his own lyrics later on doesn’t exactly prove anything about the whole Ryden sun/moon conspiracy. It only proves that Jon was still in touch with his fanbase and could use their references.

[jeremybeacom]

Location: Greywood Forest - Werewolf Encampment With: @wolfontheloose

It's the full moon and the werewolves are all around, high energies buzzing around the warm electric lights as the sun just begins to set signaling the encroaching night. Already he can feel this itch beneath his skin that he can't scratch, this internal generation of magic and energy that will compel his transformation once the full moon completes its rise. It used to make him nervous, it still does in a way, but it's a different kind of nervousness now because he has the pack and he has Ryden so he's never really alone anymore.

Jeremy is keeping to himself as he usually does, just off to the side of a few others within the pack and their families who are chattering happily around the bonfire. He listens without really listening, not wanting to intrude on their conversation but he just likes being somewhere on the outskirts of socializing, around but not contributing, it makes him feel involved without needing to be pressured into talking when he has nothing to say. So he keeps himself a little busy, throwing another log into the fire, snapping off twigs and flicking the bits into the flames as they crackle and turn to ash.

He can't help but think about the families that stay behind at the camp when all the wolves shift and go on their run through the forest. It makes him think about the other people left behind, one person in particular comes to his mind and it makes his lips go tight as he snaps another twig to throw into the fire.

[bastardgoblinwolf]

can panic! fans get it together im trying to understand ryden and they can't decide which one is the sun and which one is the moon

[dyingtobehim]

can we go back to the days of ryden sun and moon motif that was fun

[release-the-mccracken]

Ryden Playlist

The moon will sing a song for me, I loved you like the sun. Bore the shadows that you made with no light of my own. I shine only with the light you gave me.

I get reminiscent when somebody says your name. Almost glad I miss it 'cause it's better than not feeling a single thing. You weren't there when I needed you to be. Hoping you're right where you wanna be, even if it's not with me.

I would say I'm sorry if I thought that it would change your mind. But I know that this time, I have said too much, been too unkind. I tried to laugh about it, cover it all up with lies. I tried to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. 'Cause boys don't cry.

In my life, why do I give valuable time to people who don't care if I live or die? Two lovers entwined pass me by and heaven knows I'm miserable now. I was happy in the haze of the drunken hour, but heaven knows I'm miserable now.

'Cause sometimes I look in her eyes and that's where I find a glimpse of us. And I try to fall for her touch, but I'm thinking of the way it was. Said I'm fine and said I moved on, I'm only here passing time in her arms. Hoping I'll find a glimpse of us.

You say I'm changing? Sorry, I didn't know I had to stay the same. I try to write you poems, but the words they don't make sense. And I tried to show emotion, but my eyes won't seem to wet. I think you're changing. Don't worry, you don't gotta stay the same.

I danced in the desert, in the pouring rain. Drank with the devil and forgot my name. Woke with somebody when the morning came. No one there to shame me for my youth

I used to love the taste, I would do anything for it. Now I would do anything to get the taste out of my mouth. You felt if you had done anything with anyone else, it would have worked out so well. But, you are an artist and your mind don't work the way you want it to.

Can't walk into my closet without seeing your face 'cause all my favorite t-shirts are all your favorite band names. You put me in a Heart-Shaped Box. Now you only ever call me when you're high. You know you ruined Nevermind. Now, every song's about you in my mind. But the worst thing that you ever did: you ruined Nirvana.

I'm going under and this time, I fear there's no one to turn to. This all or nothing way of loving got me sleeping without you. I let my guard down and then you pulled the rug. I was getting kinda used to being someone you loved.

[how-the-feathers-have-fallen]

honestly sun/moon ryden doesn't even hold up after you listen to Jon Walkers solo music and realise the amount of Sun/Moon imagery

like either Pretty. Odd. was literally written by MORE THAN JUST ONE PERSON (or like, with bandmate influence) or Jon just really ships it

See in my head when I think about it, afycso is the Ryan album 100% but pretty odd is Jon with heavy collaboration from Ryan. There’s something about the gentleness (?) that feels like Jon’s influence.

Also I hope Jon laughs his ass off every time Ryden is brought up to him. Or goes gone girl idk. Imagine you write an amazing album about the soft continuity of the sun and moon metaphor and your fans take it to be about your bandmate and the fucker you’re carrying 😂

Imagine that shit happened to like idk Zayn or something I think he’d commit a crime

[bunnywand]

the analysis of (usually misheard) p!atd lyrics for ryden references and clues is mostly p funny in retrospect, but i'm sorry you will never be able to Unconvince me abt the sun/moon symbolism in ryan and brendon's songs like that shit was BLATANT 😳

[getaroomryden]

Sun/Moon Lyric Theory Masterpost!

(full post under cut, here it is as a google doc also, if that's easier for you!)

Disclaimer that I am so aware most of these are probably not on purpose or linked to Ryden but please let just let me have my crazy Ryden truther moment thank you, enjoy :3

What is Sun/Moon lyric theory?

The sun/moon lyric theory states that there are many references to the sun and the moon in Panic!, The Young Veins and Ryan’s own songs, and it is thought that the sun and the moon represent Ryan and Brendon or were their “nicknames” or each other in songs, with Ryan being the sun and Brendon the moon.

This theory started with many of the lyrics in Pretty Odd and it is the album with the most references to the sun and moon and with the most evidence that it is about Ryden, however there are references to the sun and the moon in later albums, so it could also be interpreted that these lyrics are about Ryan (using the sun as a metaphor for him).

The majority of my knowledge of this theory comes from the video I linked in the first paragraph but some of this is my own interpretation/findings, but a very big credit to that video by Bethany White for introducing me to the theory and providing me with many of my examples.

Also there are definitely some people that believe the sun and moon’s roles can alternate at times, I don’t see it as much and also just for simplicity I will be saying Ryan is the sun and Brendon is the moon for all of this.

Pretty. Odd. (2008)

I Have Friends In Holy Spaces Written by Brendon Urie

I’m not complaining that it’s raining / I’m just saying that I’d like it a lot More than you think / If the sun would come out and sing with me You remind me of a few of my famous friends Well that all depends what you qualify as friends

This could just be saying how Brendon loves performing with Ryan and prefers to do things with him but the second two lines some people think is kind of poking fun saying that it depends what you qualify as “friends” since they are “more than friends”. Another interpretation I’ve seen is that Brendon wants Ryan (the sun) to come out and say that they are “more than friends”.

Northern Downpour Written by Ryan Ross

Hey moon, please forget to fall down / Hey moon, don’t you go down

Northern Downpour is considered a notorious Ryden song, due to Seattle theory and also Ryan saying this in an interview with Rolling Stone on the 3rd of April 2008.

“It was about touring and girlfriends and love and everything that’s been important to us in the past few years. There’s a line in the song that goes ‘I know the world’s a broken bone, but melt your headaches, call it home’ I told Brendon (Urie, lead singer) to pay special attention to that line.”

However, it could be argued its the other way round just because there is a concert clip from 2008 where Brendon sings “Hey moon, don’t you go down” and Ryan responds with “Never will”, but this could just be due to the fact that Brendon is the singer so even though Ryan wrote it, Brendon will be singing it on stage so could not reply as the moon, so Ryan was just responding to Brendon’s singing. 

There also have been many instances post-split of Brendon tearing up/getting visibly emotional on stage when singing that line. This is not super relevant specifically to the “moon” line but it could be interpreted that Ryan wrote the song specifically with Brendon in mind/for him.

When The Day Met The Night Written by Ryan Ross

When the moon fell in love with the sun / All was golden in the sky All was golden when the day met the night

When the sun found the moon / She was drinking tea in a garden Under the green umbrella trees / In the middle of summer

When the moon found the sun / He looked like he was barely hanging on But her eyes saved his life / In the middle of summer

In these lyrics the sun is male (he) and moon is female (she), obviously they would have had to make the relationship mentioned in the song between a male and female but still could be interpreted as being about Ryan and Brendon. It also hints that Ryan does in fact refer to himself as the sun as he said this song was about a love interest, and so the song is from the sun or Ryan’s point of view.

In the middle of summer / All was golden in the sky All was golden when the day met the night

So he said, "Would it be all right / If we just sat and talked for a little while If in exchange for your time / I give you this smile?"

So she said, "That's okay / As long as you can make a promise Not to break my little heart / Or leave me all alone in the summer"

Well, he was just hanging around / Then he fell in love And he didn't know how / But he couldn't get out Just hanging around / Then he fell in love In the middle of summer

Overall, it is theorised that this song is about/for Brendon, due to the use of their sun/moon nicknames in songs, and this one is the clearest example of that.

She Had The World Written by Ryan Ross

The sun was always in her eyes / She didn’t even see me But that girl had so much love / She’d wanna kiss you all the time

I didn’t actually realise this link on my own, most of this interpretation is from Bethany White’s video which I linked earlier. This song is about unrequited love, he was always in her eyes but never truly saw him, then later in the song he says he doesn’t love her. Ryan has said that this song was about an ex-girlfriend.

Mad As Rabbits Written by Ryan Ross

Paul Cates bought himself a trumpet from the salvation army But there ain’t no sunshine in this song, we must reinvent love

“Paul Cates is a public education director for the Lesbian and Gay rights project of the American civil liberties union”

“Reinvent love” is a quote from gay French poet Arthur Rimbaud who said “I don’t like women, love must be reinvented, it's obvious” and Ryan has said that Mad As Rabbits is a love song.

This isn’t really a link to the sun or the moon but the line itself does say “there ain’t so sunshine in this song, we must reinvent love” which could be interpreted as, since love hasn’t been reinvented, Ryan or the sun cannot be there, so in order for the sun to shine, love must be “reinvented” first.

Nine in the Afternoon Written by Ryan Ross

Your eyes are the size of the moon

Not necessarily a link to Ryden but it is another reference to the moon on this album, however I have seen the interpretation that this could be referring to the way the pupil expands when you see someone/something you love.

Take a Vacation! (2010) By The Young Veins

When You Walk In The Room Covered by The Young Veins

I see a summer’s night and a magic moon / Every time that you walk in the room

I literally cannot find any concrete link anywhere but it mentions the moon and summer which is a slight link, however it’s definitely a reach here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this song was chosen intentionally to be a reference due to Brendon consistently being referred to as the moon throughout Pretty Odd, but I am aware it’s definitely a reach.

C’mon (2011) Written by Brendon Urie

And if the sun should lift me up, would you come back?

This song is not part of an album, but still had a reference to the sun, this was written and released post-split. The song is about missing someone and was after Ryan and Brendon had gone separate ways.

Vices & Virtues (2011)

The Ballad of Mona Lisa

Say what you mean, tell me I'm right / And let the sun rain down on me

(Unverified annotation from the genius lyric page) “The narrator then wishes for the sun to ‘rain down’ on him, another contradiction that likely represents his wishes for happiness to return to his life.”

If Ryan is represented by the sun it could be argued that he wants the happiness of being with Ryan (romantically or platonically) back in his life, also with the “give me a sign I wanna believe” it could be that he wants a sign they could reunite and be together again. Another interpretation is that these lines mean that the narrator wants whoever they’re talking to to “say what they mean” or communicate properly with them, which could link to Brendon wanting to communicate with Ryan.

Trade Mistakes

I may never sleep tonight / As long as you're still burning bright If I could trade mistakes for sheep / Count me awake before you sleep

I interpret this as being a sun/moon lyric despite not explicitly saying it because the sun “burns bright” which made me think this lyric was related. Also “count me awake before you sleep”, implies that Brendon (the moon) would be awake, and the moon is out at night, whilst Ryan (the sun) was sleeping, as the sun goes down at night.

The Calendar

Put another ex on the calendar / Summer's on its deathbed

It could be argued that some references to summer tie into the sun/moon lyric references, I say this since in When The Day Met The Night it says “in the middle of summer” so to me, at least, references to summer also could link to Ryden. (See also Golden Days)

Also despite on Spotify it saying “another X on the calendar”, the Vices & Virtues CD lyric booklet says “ex on the calendar”, showing it was an intentional play on words, this implies the song is about a break up. In interviews, the band said that originally the song was about a break up but over time came to be about the splitting of the band.

Stall Me

So curse everyone and everything / Even the sun

Baptized in the river of you / Hold on death / The moon's just a sliver of you

Once again I’m not entirely sure if there is a concrete Ryden link but it's another mention of the sun and moon in this album.

Sun and Moon Written by Jon Walker

I don’t need the sun and the moon to tell me what to do

This is a solo song by Jon, separate from Panic! or The Young Veins. I am not saying this song is definitely about Ryden because it was Jon’s own song, nothing to do with the others so I don’t want to act like everything he does is linked to Panic! or the other members. However, when you read the lyrics it does seem like it could be interpreted as about them. Some other lyrics are:

What’s the point in holding on / If the two of you just don’t belong?

It could be saying that Brendon and Ryan weren’t meant to be together or had a rocky relationship towards the end of the band, which was obvious to others/or just Jon, this is possibly tension that catalysed the split or arguments within the band. The first lyric could also indicate that Ryan and Brendon or the sun and moon, took charge in the band and made a lot of the musical decisions, but now Jon was making music by himself, he no longer has to have them telling him what to do in terms of his music. Once again, not saying this is definitely about them but it is an interpretation.

Lonely Moonlight (2013) Written by Ryan Ross

The sun went down over my head, another day I’ve lost, filled with regret I wander through the sunshine, remembering when you were mine, lonely moonlight When I had a younger heart, you told me not to fear the dark, lonely moonlight Someone I love loves someone else another day I lost, all by myself 

This song is from Ryan’s solo album, talking about how the sun and the moon remind him of someone special, and since Brendon’s nickname was moon, it could be interpreted that the “lonely moonlight” is him. These are all the lyrics to the song, the rest of it is just these lyrics repeated. Whilst, of course, not everything Ryan does is a link to Brendon, the sun and moon metaphor was very much their thing and so it does point towards there being a possible link.

Here is a link to the song if you want to listen to it.

Another link I found in the comments section of Bethany White’s video was Ryan’s other song.

Where I Belong Written by Ryan Ross

If you wanna see the sun, you're gonna have to dig your way out

Once again, not a concrete link, but another reference to the sun in Ryan’s music.

Death Of A Bachelor (2016)

Golden Days

I found a pile of polaroids in the crates of a record shop

This is not sun/moon but I have seen the interpretation before that this is a link to before the band broke up as its “polaroids” or old memories in a “record shop” which sells music, so he found memories in their old music or relating to it.

In the summertime In the summertime

The genius lyric page for Golden Days points out the similarity between this line and “In the middle of summer” from When The Day Met The Night, so at least to me, the summer in general as well as the sun and the moon, could be a link to Ryden.

Oh, don't you wonder when the light begins to fade?

This is a reach but the light fading could be the sun (or Ryan) going away/leaving, as when the sun leaves, so will the light and it will become dark.

We’ll stay drunk, we’ll stay tan, let the love remain And I swear that I’ll always pain you / Golden days

Once again the line “Golden days” is similar to the “Golden in the sky” in When The Day Met The Night. This could also be a reference to the “golden days” of Panic!, so when the band was still together and they first began gaining popularity, or when he still had Ryan, either romantically or just in his life in general.

I bet they never even thought about / The glitter dancing on the skin The decades might've washed it out / As the flashes popped like pins

This is once again me reaching but I see this line as maybe linked to the band due to their glittery/flashy costumes, especially in the A Fever You Can’t Sweat Out era, they never thought it would go away or they would no longer have the band or this stage presence, or even if they knew it would one day end they never thought at the time it would end so quickly. And since the “decades washed it out”, when Death Of A Bachelor was released (2016) it had been over 10 years since the release of Fever (2005).

Impossible Year

There’s no sunshine in this impossible year

I’m not going to say this song is definitely about Ryan, as I read on the genius lyric page about how this song was mainly about Brendon’s own struggles that year, but it does say “sunshine” so I thought to include it in this document. It is a possible link to not having Ryan anymore, but as a whole I don’t necessarily think the song was intended to be about that, whilst it could still be interpreted that way.

I would like to say that I am not saying that all these songs are definitely about Ryden, whilst I am definitely a truther, I do know that not every single thing one of them does is about the other person, this is kind of just for fun and also the part of me that does like to find all the references and see all the possible interpretations, mainly because it’s interesting.

Thank you to my best friend Tea (@thistooisphanyuri / @myfagicalromance) for proof reading this and also enduring my constant Ryden infodumping <333

Also, thank you so much for reading if you got this far! I hope you enjoyed :3

[spineofthenight]

that 'sun and moon' ship poll account is continuing to contribute to the ongoing ryden erasure in todays sociopolitical climate.. sad!

[wolfontheloose]

Ryden had not been grieving much over anything he’d lost of his supernatural abilities, such as enhanced sense of smell, sight or even his slightly precognitive animal instincts, all pesky little nuisances that sometimes managed to be more of a distraction than help really. The only loss Ryden truly lamented was of his super strength, speed and agility which had actually made some daily tasks much easier now that he was properly used to these cheat codes which made him better, faster and stronger in almost everything he did. So he couldn’t rightfully relate to his newly returned friend, misunderstanding the mixed emotions so clearly on display on Nicky’s face. “Damn, ya lookin’ like I pooped on yer rainbow, I can move along f’ya ain’t ready t’see me yet.” The alpha scoffed, partially joking. “I mean, either that er you’ve been homeless for the past year.” He couldn’t not notice the unusual state of carelessness and disheveled Nicky was in, not common for the man whom Ryden remembered as taking much better care of his appearance. “Jet-lagged?” He assumed on a more realistic, less joking note.

Then, almost as if on a flip of a switch, Nick was back to his usual self, pulling Ryden into a hug. “Yanno I’m gross, I’d been runnin’.” Yet he returned the hug nevertheless, giving the other wolf a resounding few pats on the back that likely still shook Nicholas’ frame even though Ryden had also lost that strength he’d somehow grown overly used to over time. “Well then we even more fucked than we already are.” He chortled about Nicky being back to save the day, pulling out of the brief but heartfelt embrace, reaching up to once again dab at beads of sweat on his forehead with his wrist band, the exercise and early morning sun making it pour down. A little frown molded his otherwise already stern expression.

“What do ya mean ‘almost human’, I am human.” A fact Ryden had always been adamant of - he was born a human and he would die a human. He just occasionally turned into something not human from time to time, when the moon was in a particular state of roundness.

@nicholasbaudelaire

-

To have had his pack leader so close to him, and to not have smelled him or heard him was... well it was shocking. Discombobulating even. It hit home with Nicholas just how immediately the town's boarder must have hit him. How had he not noticed?

The realisation somewhat affected Nick's joy at reuniting with his pack leader and friend. Not sensing Ryden in the ways his wolf usually did, threw the werewolf off. It was evident in Nick's look of surprise, delight, then confusion and ultimately resignation. Nicholas had anticipated the physical changes that would occur upon his return, he had dreaded it actually, but for him to have lost his extra abilities so quickly and so suddenly... It dampened Nick's mood a little, but he was still happy to see Ryden.

The Baudelaire man certainly looked older after his year away. He was much paler than he ever had been in Opulence, the British sun apparently not doing much to maintain his usual warm tan. Nicholas had grown a short beard and moustache, his mess of dark curls were left wild with little to no product. Nick had always been vein, absolute in the comfort of his almost boyish good looks, and so had experimented with various looks, enjoying attracting attention when he did. Now, he looked like he had thrown on the first thing he saw in his wardrobe and thrown in a smidge of hair product as an afterthought.

Unlike the wolves in town, Nick had been able to maintain his supernaturally muscular physique while being abroad, and safe from the town's boarders, but he had lost some of the fullness in his face during that time. It made his face appear thinner alongside his paler complexion and the shadows beneath his eyes. The man did not look bad per say, just paler, leaner, maybe a little tired, even for a moment, serious. That was until Nicholas grinned and reached out to pull Ryden into a hug, his sudden loss of wolf like strength preventing him from giving his standard back breaking cuddles.

"Ah, yes the rumours are true. I'm back to save the day!" Nick joked, his bright blue eyes glinting. What was happening in town was not something Nick did not take seriously, but he handled most stressful things in life with jokes and banter. "You're looking almost human these days!" Nick teased, as though he was arrogant enough to think he hadn't been impacted by the supernatural changes.

[ohgreatonw]

Comments under jon walker’s “sun and moon” video

[rydnhell]

hey jon,

wtf