#roy. like kori. gives dick the ability to see and think different and allow himself to have fun. dick gives roy stability and

[yaboisnelf]

remember when kori said dick ran away with bruce's credit card in one pocket and roy in the other. yeah. get his ass kori. 🛼🛼‼️‼️

happy pride and spiderman movie day

[animalpetcel]

Ideal RHATO

Okay, so I’ve done some thinking. While Red Hood and the Outlaws was an interesting concept; give Jason friends and a team of his own, get him out of the Batfam Shadow, it’s been bogged down by L*bdell spotty writing and questionable Editorial decisions. So I’ve taken the time to think of what I would personally want the Outlaws to be.

First of all, I don’t believe that Jason would be better of if he remained solo. While he does deserve a good solo run other than UtH, the idea of permanently sequestering from creating meaningful, recurring relationships with other heroes is just repulsive to me. He should be allowed to have friends and people to talk to outside of the Batfamily guys, there’s only so many adventures he can have by himself before they all start sounding the same. You could even have him gaining friends as part of his character development.

Okay! So let’s begin

In my version, the Outlaws would be a more obvious antihero team. They take cases by those who feel that regular heroes can’t help them, that they won’t go far enough to achieve justice. The Outlaws won’t kill often, but it would usually be awful criminals like drug dealers, traffickers or those in charge, but if they don’t kill, they won’t be above dissing out harsh, lasting punishments to those who cross them. There could be the possibility of them being a team looking for redemption, but I’ve never really thought about them going in that direction.

Btw: This will be a hard reboot, everything from New52 to Rebirth regarding RHATO will be completely retconned, because Lobdell wrote almost all of them and despite what people want to believe most of it is bad save for some barely passable moments

Outlaw Members

Jason Todd

Can’t have the Outlaws without their infamous leader. Like I said above, I believe that having his own team can be a good thing for Jason, he can establish a history disconnected from his history with Bruce and actually start to move on. I’d imagine him being a reluctant leader, preferring to work alone but admitting that having people to rely on has made his mission a lot easier. He’s a very driven and calculated person, and after reading Arkham Knight Genesis, I have no doubt in his leadership skills and his ability to turn a ragtag group of antiheroes into a team to be reckoned with.

Idk if I’d keep his All-Caste stuff. I know that it was probably created to give his backstory something that stands out, since he’s the third Batfam member to have the League of Assassins in his backstory and isn’t the only one that’s died before, but he barely uses the All-blades or brings up the All-Caste to the point were you can omit it and don’t really have to do that much to replace it. At this point, I’d accept Talia making him train with Brother Blood over the All-Caste.

I’d probably say that the Lazurus pit Talia used to bring him back was kinda special, giving him a minor healing factor and increasing his strength, idk, something small.

Eddie Bloomberg

(I hate Tom King and this dialogue too but I wanted a recent image of him)

Did you know that unlike Roy Harper, Eddie was actually Jason’s best friend pre-reboot? Most people don’t because DC doesn’t care about using pre-established canon or developing its less popular heroes! 🙃

Okay, I used to be a huge fan of Jason and Roy’s friendship in New52 RHATO, but then I learned that Roy was originally Dick’s friends, that his personality was dumbed down for New52, Roy actually hates mercenaries and would never become one, they only used Roy because he was more popular and that most Titan/Roy friends actually hate his New52 counterpart and friendship with Jason. While I believe that Roy and be both friendship with Dick AND Jason (but in different ways. Dick is more of a close friend while he and Jason should have a more big brother kind of relationship), I have to admit that DC dropped the ball here, and it would be easier to just scrap everything instead of trying to make it work.

Eddie’s personality is actually quite similar to New52 Roy’s, and he and Jason already have unexplored history, so switching Roy with him won’t mess anything too much.

And now, I hear you ask “Ani, what about the Outlaw’s being an antihero group? Wouldn’t that make Eddie stand out?”, and I will reply “Don’t worry, I have a plan!”

Back when Eddie first got his powers, Neron, the king of hell at the time (?) wanted Eddie to be his protege, but Eddie refuses. But what if Neron was more forceful? Eddie could be offered, now powerless again because of the events of TT (but his death is retconned to just getting badly injured), to become Neron’s protege once again. With nothing left to lose (his relationship with Blue Devil is still in the fritz, Teen Titans no longer seem to give a damn and Rose & Jaime is still off doing their own things), he takes it. I guess he’s probably look different with more of Neron’s power coursing through his veins, but the point is that Outlaws become a “Fall from grace” for him. He’s trying to still be a hero, but as Neron’s influence continues to grow, his ability to tell right from wrong gets more and more clouded.

He’s the one to approach Jason with the idea of being a team, wanting to relive the “Good Ol’ Days” when they were younger and less bogged down with personal trauma. While Jason is reluctant, he admits that since being self-exiled from the Batfamily that it’s been kinda lonely, so he agrees, but only short-term. Eddie then segways into the next member of their burgeoning group–

Rose Wilson

While pre-reboot, Rose and Jason did not have the friendliest interactions, with her holding a blade to her throat while his brothers threatened him with a crime he never committed. Post-reboot, he and Rose seem to have a more “friendlier” relationship, but the Wilson family have been rebooted at least theee times in both New52 and Rebirth, so who knows if they even still know each other now,

Rose and Eddie were very close friends in Teen Titans, and I think that getting Rose away from the madness of her family and father could be good for her character.

Eddie manages to convince her to join the “Outlaws”, but like Jason, she goes into it thinking that it’ll be a one-time thing. She cares a lot about Eddie, and sticks with the team to make sure that he’s doing alright. She probably could have an arc were Nightwing confronts her on her work in the Outlaws (since the other heroes see them as white-hat mercenaries) since he mentored her in being a hero, so it could be about dealing with what other people expect of her.

Essence

While L*bdell might be basically a shit writer, he does create interesting concepts. With a better writer, Essence could be a very interesting character, watching from the shadows and judging whether or not the Outlaws are actually “good” people, before she eventually starts taking a more active role in helping them punish criminals.

While she would at first interact solely with Jason, asking him questions about his deeds and ordering him in what direction she feels is best, she would eventually introduce herself to the rest of the group. I think she’d get along best with Komand’r, while the others might test her absolutism, Black-And-White morality a bit.

Rankorr (Jack Moore)

I know that there’s some people who want Guy Gardner to be Jason’s lantern, but what about a lantern who is close to Jason in age and actually fits the Outlaw theme?

Jack Moore is a Red Lantern, not only a Red Lantern, but the first human lantern who is also the first Red Lantern to be capable of creating constructs. He struggles with his rage, and deep down, he wants to enjoy a normal life on earth.

Maybe after Red Lantern (retconning Lobo or if not, he’s brought back using Red Lantern Blood Magic), he decides that the RL’s are a bit too cult-like for him and tries to lay low on Earth, finishing his literature degree and opening up a small bookstore somewhere in London. He’s close with Guy, but still can’t/refuses to let go of his rage, so Jack is still a RL

Of course, keeping his rage at bay is hard work, and after witnessing police brutality one more time, he loses control.

The Outlaws were hired by the family of the victim to make the officers see justice, but after seeing Jack work, they realize that this might be their easiest case yet.

Afterwards, Jack tries to downplay the entire thing (before resorting to threats when the Outlaws won’t listen), but Jason eventually convinced him that his talents would be wasted just being a civilian (and that his rage will only get worse if he continues to just let it boil without an “outlet”) so he joins the team

Blackfire

I’ve read Komand’r’s backstory, I know how bad it looks. However, in a medium where retcons and reimaginings are features instead of bugs (and can benefit a character’s story if done right), I really think it could be possible to make her work.

After reading New52 RHATO, I began thinking that it could be so much better if not only Eddie took Roy’s spot, but also if Komand’r took Starfire’s, since I feel like she had more potential beyond “Kori’s evil disabled sister”, “War Criminal” and “Struggling queen of Tamaran”

First, I’d change her pre-reboot backstory so instead of taking over the Gordanians, she is instead captured by them after Starfire frees her from the Psions (Komand’r still hates her sister and refuses to follow her). Through her clever mind and manipulations, she manages to earn favor with Lord Damyn, feigning romantic interest. Of course, given Komand’r’s nature, she ends up killing and replacing him, but her rule doesn’t go over well and she is again recaptured, but this time she’s brought to Earth.

Realizing that she’s now trapped on the planet whete her sister has become a successful and popular hero, Komand’r is at first angry, and then conspires to free herself and take revenge on her sister (who she still blames for everything despite that not being the case).

The Outlaws bust the alien trafficking ring, and Komand’r, seeing her chance, decides to show off and make nice with them to eventually use them for her revenge.

She finds Eddie and Rankorr easy to manipulate, but she bumps Heads with Jason whenever she tries to take his role as leader away from him and finds Rose’s mind to be “weak”. Overtime however, she bonds with Jason over feeling inferior to their siblings, realizes that her anger shares Rankorr’s intensity, and grows a genuine friendship with Rose and Eddie

Oh yeah, and maybe she tries to make things right with Kori

Artemis Grace

What would the Outlaws be without the greatest Amazon to have ever lived? Nothing, that’s for sure.

While I don’t agree with Jaytemis (at least not yet), I have to admit that Jason would be a fool not to like her. She’s a cool, confident character with a lot of interesting lore behind her.

Her joining will probably be pretty close to canon. The Outlaws are tasked with going after Black Mask, and Jason decides to go undercover, as the Red Hood still has his fingers in various criminal pies. While investigating, he runs into Artemis, who is looking for the Bow of Ra, and rest is history.

I feel like she’ll get along really well with Rose and Komand’r and maybe she’ll date one. She’ll definitely view Eddie a bit dismissively, and she isn’t a huge fan of demons. Rankorr would probably come off as stuck up to her.

Bizarro

Anyone who knows me will know that I’m am not a huge fan of Bizarro clones. I consider them to be an overused concept (that sometimes feels as if it relies on gene superiority, but idk if I’ll ever fully process my dislike for them), and the fact that as the time I’m writing this, there are at least four currently in continuity does not enamor me with the concept more.

However, after re-reading RHATO a few times, I’ll admit that the Outlaws’ Bizarro has grown on me. Since he already kinda has a unique name (Bizz), all I think he needs is a more visually distinct costume (doesn’t even have to directly reference Superman, but I can go 50/50 on the backwards “S”)

The Outlaws getting Bizz is exactly the same as canon. I’d imagine that he and Eddie would be as close as brothers. While Rankorr might find Bizz’s way of thinking and speaking to be annoying, I’d think that Rankorr will eventually warm up to him and probably teach him how to read and help Artemis teach him. Komand’r and Rose will probably be less receptive to him, but who knows

August Heart

I’m a Godspeed fan first and human second, we’ve been knew.

In all seriousness, Godspeed is the perfect Rebirth era character for RHATO and the fact that he and Jason still haven’t met is why DC doesn’t have any rights.

Okay okay, but he’s honestly a perfect fit. Like Jason, he also kills when dealing with crimes, but he isn’t so good and knowing who’s guilty and who isn’t just yet.

This will probably be after Death of the Speedforce, with August finally making things right with Barry, but still not forgiving himself for everything that happened. Deciding to self-exile himself rather than go back to Iron Heights, August travels, trying to figure out what do to do next, trying to follow Barry’s rules (which he finds to be very wishy-washy) to the best of his ability.

Eventually, he learns that Black Hole is still running, and against his better instincts, he goes after them.

His trail of lightning destruction catches the eye of the Outlaws.

Barry, realizing that his best-friend might need someone who can actually be there all the time to help reign him in, Barry goes to the Outlaws and asks them if they can help him once they catch up to him

They do in the form of offering a spot on the team.

August is very self-assured (even if it is hiding a softer, more emotional center), but has proven to be able to work with others, so I can see the other Outlaws coming to like him. They might find him a little cocky/early to jump the gun, but still a trusted and valued member of the team.

Since every Robin has their own flash, it only makes sense to finally give Jason (and have them date) a speedster of his own, and it should be someone who fits his morals, and who else could Then the speedster fans literally call “The Red Hood of the Flashfam”?

Final Thoughts

Other possible members I would consider/accept are

Eradicator Superman

Koryak

Vanessa Kapatelis/Silver Swan lll

Simon Amal (Crux)

Danny Chase

Clone!Roy Harper

Connor Hawke

Orm Marvius

Man O’ War

Lagoon Boy

Scarlet

Zachary Zatara

Thomas Merlyn

Ragman

Bleez

Walter West

Even with a cast as sizable as the one I just listed, with a good enough writer, there could still a few minor side characters. I would personally want the them to be

Scarlet: Jason’s former sidekick. She could be either a civilian who he talks to get experience some normalcy or the leader of her own version of the Outlaws made of up the Generation Outlaws we meet in RHATO #37-40. Either way, it could contrast with Bruce and the way he (mis)treats his own sidekicks and family

Zachary Zatara: Eddie’s old friend who helped him get his devil powers. Zachary would definitely be worried over Eddie once again accepting Neron’s power and will want to try to help. Whether he suceeds or not will depend if the writers want to go in that direction

Isabel Ardila: She’s a nothing character, but there’s a small chance that with a better writer, she might gain an interesting personality or an actual purpose in RHATO

Talia Al Ghul: before the reboot, Talia was Jason’s mentor figure and even gave him a cool dagger. It would be so cool if we can bring that back and erase Morrison’s problematic charactization of her. Maybe the dagger she gives Jason could be an All-Blade or smth. They’d definitely take a few cases from her however

Batfam, Titans and respective groups: it would have to happen eventually. It could lead to some interesting, angst filled conversations. And who knows, maybe they’ll actually make progress with their issues

But this post has gone on long enough. I just really wanted to talk a bit about my ideal Outlaws team that I will never see anywhere except for my dreams because mass media hates me and DC still thinks that Lobdell deserves to write Jason 😔😭

[graylinesspam]

A lot of the time girls seem to be attracted to sarcastic problematic male characters.

Something that we are consistently cautioned for. We are often questioned, ”are those the kind of men you are attracted to?" that's not healthy.

Why should Tony Stark be your favorite character when fully functional Steve Rogers is right there?

I do want to preface this by saying I have nothing against my "control group" characters I will be using as examples. In fact several are still my favorites but for the sake of this discussion, I will be comparing them to my very favorite characters.

To stay on the subject let's take Tony Stark for example. He's flirty, sarcastic, a bit of a narcissist, and just problematic for the first twenty or so years of his teen to adulthood. Many Tony fans are criticized for loving him because he is so mistrusting of authority and always gets himself in trouble. He has a knack for hyper fixating and isolating himself. this is true. He is damaged.

But the damage isn't what attracts us to him. It's the way he treats people, women especially.

(Many of the points I am about to make have been recently pointed out in a post defending Tony against claims of misogyny, I wish I had the foresight to have copied a link to it. )

Tony like most of the men we will be discussing was abused by his father for most of his childhood. He grew very close to his mother. Trusting and idolizing her above his father. With the exception of Jarvis, there weren't any positive male role models in his developmental years. He had his mother, aunt Peggy and a gaggle of nannies to raise him. Who cared for him and built strong relationships.

In later years he is shown to trust and respond more positively to women. He puts Pepper in charge of his life and later his company after she burst into his office and Pepper sprayed a bodyguard to chew him out. She proved she took none of his shit and he trusted her to keep him in line.

Tony is seen as a trouble maker because of his dislike of authority, but it's always male authority. He feels challenged by other men especially those in positions of power that frequently feel the need to posture and put themselves above others in order to control them.

He trusts and complements Dr. Helen Cho despite his dislike for medical doctors. He always speaks to her with respect and frequently uses her title as a doctor in greeting unlike many who dismiss the title altogether. Tony puts Carol on charge of the avengers and by proxy himself because of his absolute faith in her ability to run the team. Nick Fury even realizes his innate respect for women above men and puts Maria Hill in charge of him as his shield agent. I could go on about his treatment of Nat and their strong friendship but I think it's time to move on to the next example.

In comparison, Steve absolutely shows respect for his female teammates. He may have briefly underestimated Peggy in the early comics but she knocked that out of him pretty quickly. But he just doesn't have an instinctual trust if women the same way Tony does. He trusts his teammates after they have proven themselves trustworthy. He is chivalrous absolutely but subscribes to the manners that focus on sir, ma'am or last names as opposed to acknowledging accomplishments outside of military ranks.

I think the complete respect and trust of women endears us so completely to those characters because it isn't just finally showing women as more than sexual objects but giving us the respect we are often denied. And it happens to show frequently in characters that we're abused by father figures and therefore are damaged. It isn't the damage that attracts us but it's often the other side effect of the abuse that causes this preference of women.

Clint too was abused by his father, often beaten so bad that it resulted in temporary hearing loss that is later brought back and worsened.

Clint was the baby boy in the family and wasn't in a position to be protective of his mother but that didn't mean he didn't love her. After her death and a stint on the streets, he joined the circus where he honed his archery skills and was quickly betrayed by the male figure he had trusted there. He was beaten again and left to die. His trust of women despite his overtly flirty behavior manifests in different ways to Tony. Clint trusts women is such a negative way. First allowing Natasha to coerce him into a life of crime when his initial intention was to be a super hero. And later when he allowed a love interest to trap him in an abusive off and on again relationship where he was often verbally berated.

But in later comics when Natasha is rewritten as a hero as her and Clint are partnered their relationship whether it manifests platonically or romantically is very close. They trust each other absolutely. He may be concerned for Nat but not once does he underestimate her ability. And often admits she is the stronger and more skilled one in the partnership and not in self depicting or spiteful way despite clints often concerning feelings of inferiority compared to the other heroes.

I think the best control group comparison for Clint would be Peter Parker (also one of my favorites). Pete is very close with his aunt may and though she is a huge player in his development he just doesn't have that preference for women. Not to say that he underestimated his female teammates. Despite being literally the strongest avenger he never insinuates it makes him better than anyone on his team. Not even Nat or Clint who have no powers. And of course, when he is in a relationship with MJ he treats her very respectfully and never like a damsel in distress. But due to lack of opportunity Pete just doesn't work with a lot of women. He doesn't have many allies, or villains for that matter, that are female. And though he is often easily lied to he doesn't show a stronger trust for women.

Let's switch up franchises shall we?

Jason Todd checks three of our boxes, abused by a father figure, adored his mother, and was betrayed by another male figure in his life. At least that's how he sees Bruce leaving the Joker alive. He also shows signs of being overly flirty, sarcastic, damaged, self-destructive, and "dangerous".

Unlike the others, he is more of an anti-hero. He worked under Bruce for a long time as Robin but even then he was often docked for use of excessive force and ignoring orders. Even as much as he loved Bruce his aversion to authority kept shining through. Male authority that is.

Jason is a huge Wonder women fanboy. He adores Diana and always shows her and the other amazonian's respect. When he is in Gotham he often works with Babs or Selina depending on which side he's working for (Though this may be for forced sexual tension by the writers). He always works better with women on any team. His most successful stint in a team was the original Outlaws where he referred to Kory as princess, not in a condescending way but because she truly was a princess. He never showed doubt in her abilities and often followed her lead. But mostly he trusted her completely to have his back. Just as much as he trusted Roy who he had known most of his life.

As opposed to his favored brother Dick who has been shown to trust Clark's word above most anyone.

This post is getting long but my point is often women favor characters who favor women. Most often very respectful male characters like those in the control group here are perfectly wonderful characters with established respect for women but that respect manifests it's self as an equal ignoring of any characters accomplishments in order to establish both genders as equal. Many look to the most qualified person in any situation to lead and while that is probably more correct it isn't very often that a female character is portrayed as being the most capable in any situation. While that isn't the characters fault it does leave an imbalance in power for female characters. When a man trusts a women above others it's a rush of endearment for us. Because finally we get that power, or sincerely that intimate trust from a character.

However, in the spirit of fairness, I'll offer up a character just as trusting and preferring of women with none of the abuse or character flaw. Clark Kent my chivalrous farm boy has always been a feminist and despite Lois's early portrayal as just the damsel in distress he never treated her like lesser than or incapable.

[lananiscorner]

You know, while I agree that Jason being supposed to forgive Willis just like that is bad form from the writers, there actually is precedence for Jason behaving like that: He already had mother (Catherine, dead) and a still living father (Bruce) and yet, the moment he learnt of Sheila, he went looking for her, ready to love and be loved by her. He's always looking for somebody to unconditionally love him because sadly even the first time around Bruce just couldn't give him that. (1)

(2) Jay always felt insecure in hisposition and as if he never was enough (the Garzonas’ thing didn’t help at all)so when he had the chance at another parent suddenly appearing like out of afairytale he took it. Didn’t work out at all, as we now know, but still, Icould totally see him doing it again. There’s another parental figure who mightactually care about him this time around and openly show it. Who accepts himand tells him he’s proud of him. So naturally he will gravitate there…

(3)… because he’s just so desperate forit and Bruce (and the rest) simply aren’t giving him that. Also, it may be inpart learnt behavior: Catherine stayed with Willis, her abuser, for years afterall, until he went away to prison. So even if Jason thinks of himself as freeof that nasty spiral by now, some part of him could be always driving him backto those who treat him badly because “maybe it will be different thistime”. He’s always returning to the Bats after all, who keep hurting him

Thanks for your ask, Anon.

I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. The only thing Sheila Hayworth and Willis Todd have in common is that they were Diaboli ex rectis auctorum, aka “plot devices the writers and editors pulled out of their asses to make Jason’s life worse or even end it”. Here’s why:

Willis was someone Jason always knew to be abusive. He was very, very much aware of that, because Willis regularly beat him black and blue and threatened to shoot him. And Jason knows that that was wrong. Sheila on the other hand, was to him “mom who had to abandon me for understandable reasons, but never actually tried to hurt me and who might be the nicest person on the planet”. Right up until she sold him out to Joker.

Post Crisis Jason was very emotionally isolated at the time of Death In The Family. Bruce had benched him and wasn’t meeting his emotional needs. Dick was always off-world with the Titans, Barbara was there… occassionally? I know they shared like… three or four panels? Contrast to New 52/Rebirth Jason, who is on good enough standing with the batfam to call Dick, Tim, and Damian his brothers (and vice versa) and work with them without much fuss, who is allowed to wear the batsymbol, to show up for weekly breakfast and to be invited to Bruce’s wedding and Batwoman’s trial. Yes, there were also times when they treated him like shit, but there were also times when they treated him well (in contrast to Willis who, for all that we know, was 100% shit).

Post Crisis Jason had zero friends he could turn to in his grief. New 52/Rebirth Jason first had Roy and Kori and then had Artemis and Bizarro. So his emotional support is there, even if it’s basic. It’s definitely better than what Post Crisis Jason had.

Post Crisis Jason was a fourteen/fifteen-year-old boy. New 52/Rebirth Jason, despite being very young, has already been through death and back again. And correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think New 52/Rebirth ever told the full story of Jason’s death, so we can only assume that it went down as in Post Crisis, which means that Jason, at the point of RHATO Vol 2 has already learned that blood relations don’t mean SHIT.

Related to that… I don’t think New 52/Rebirth Jason has ever gotten as emotional about Sheila as he did about Willis, so clearly Jason has the ability to call bullshit when he sees it.

Also, let’s not forget that Willis also abused Catherine and we all know what Jason’s take is on men who abuse and assault women.

Most importantly though, and I said it before, but I want to stress this again: Sheila and Bruce had at least had the benefit of Jason’s doubt, either because they had been nice and loving to him at some point (Bruce) or because they had never met him before and had the potential to be parent of the year (Sheila). Willis had none of that. Willis was an ass from beginning to end, to both Jason and his mom.

So, no, even with the precedent of Sheila, I don’t see how Jason would have been able to get so emotional about Willis. It’s still OOC, as far as I’m concerned.