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sightsoundrhythm · 5 years ago

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JUSTIN BROWN

Justin Brown is a drummer and composer from Oakland, California. His journey so far has seen him play with a multitude of artists including Thundercat, Herbie Hancock, Flying Lotus, Esperanza Spalding, Kenny Garrett and, most recently, touring in Europe with bassist Ben Williams.

Always tasteful in his approach and execution, Justin's style is progressive and virtuosic yet extremely musical. He began playing drums at a young age and later graduated to playing in clubs by his early teens, before studying at the Manhattan School of Music.

Justin has recently returned to California after being a longtime resident of New York City, where he had initially moved as a student before becoming an active participant in the city's eclectic music scene. In 2018 he released his first album as a bandleader under the name Nyeusi which gained high accolades from both the New York Times and NPR's Simon Rentner. The album sits at the intersection of jazz fusion and hip-hop, managing to sound both vintage and incredibly modern at the same time. It features a selection of luminary musicians from the New York jazz scene including Jason Lindner (★) and Fabian Almazan and is available to download here

NYEUSI by Justin Brown

SIGHT/SOUND/RHYTHM spoke with Justin before a show in Vienna, Austria to talk about his musical background and upbringing, connecting the line between some of his many collaborations, and submitting to the music.

You just moved back to California after 13 years in New York. What prompted that move for you?

Well, two things. The main thing was family. My mother is getting older, plus I also have a fifteen year old nephew and I really want to be more involved in his life.

There's no place like New York as far as the music scene, which is what drew me there, but it was just the day to day living that I tapped out on. Just the thought of getting on the train and dealing with all of those energies in a compact space... I just needed a bit more balance, for my own sanity.

So those were the main reasons, but I also have a ton of friends in LA, too, that were pulling me there.

L.A. is the type of place where you can't really beat the quality of living. I might be spending the same amount as far as rent goes but I have more time and I'm able to balance out my day a little bit more. Plus the sun is always out so it's easier on the body and brain.

What are the things that you've valued the most by being between New York and L.A.? Does one feel like a better fit than the other?

That's a good question. Well, I've mainly valued the music. Being in New York I feel like I developed faster, just because it's 24/7 and a lot of the guys that I looked up to and wanted to be around were in New York. By being there I found out who I was and what I actually wanted to do. Also, I always wanted to be involved in more than one thing and New York was the place for me to do that. Whether I wanted to play gospel music, or jazz, or hip hop, it was all happening in that space. I feel like New York made me a little stronger.

L.A. has a beautiful music scene. It's a little more close knit because you have a lot of people who are from there and who grow up with each other. It's almost like these little pockets of families who grow up with this musical journey.

It feels as though it's a little more open now, especially with a lot of the younger dudes, where you get into playing more jazz and experimental music. Although it is still a part of it, it's just not as studio focused. On the flip side of that, L.A. is teaching me a lot about the studio because it's sort of the mecca for that. I'm learning lots about mics and EQs.

I do feel like the two places are still connected. I used to say that if you wanted to become a hardcore musician then you move to New York, and if you wanted to have more stability then you'd move to L.A., but it's changing, mainly because of the younger generation and having access to the internet.

What was your experience like growing up as a kid?

Well, being in the Bay Area, there was a vast amount of artistry, from Tower of Power, to Sly and the Family Stone, from the Black Panther movement to the Hawkins Family. It was really cool to be in an environment where art was prominent.

I was fortunate to go to Berkeley High School where I met Thomas Pridgen and a lot of other amazing musicians. Even though it was a public school, the school band was really good and it had this stature for being one of the best in the country. That school was just a bunch of creatives.

I was there with Daveed Diggs, who was in Hamilton, as well as Chinaka Hodges. There were a bunch of different creatives there and that was really cool to be around. There were also outreach programs like the Young Musician's Program, which is a summer school at the University of California, Berkeley for kids under eighteen and they're basically teaching you at a college level. From being there, and being around the people that I grew up with, I knew what I wanted to pursue. I knew as a kid that I had a talent but I didn't start to exude in it until after I left the Bay Area.

I was very active in music, plus my mother is also a gospel musician, so I was learning a lot. I was fortunate enough to have good parents who helped me to cultivate my craft and I'm very thankful for having been in that environment. I had opportunities to play small gigs. I really commend my mother because from the ages of thirteen to fifteen, she used to let me play at late night clubs and she'd come pick me up at two in the morning. I'm very fortunate that she allowed me to have that outlet.

That's some good parenting.

Yeah! She's a musician as well so she saw an opportunity for me to go in a direction that she didn't really go in. She would go out on tour but it was a struggle because she wanted to be at home with the family. Whenever I wanted to practice or hang out with musicians or go to shows, she was always there to take me. At a young age I got to see a lot of guys playing who would be coming through the Bay Area, like Dennis Chambers and Brian Blade.

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You've been friends with Thomas Pridgen for a long time.

Yeah, we grew up together. I met Thomas when I was 8, and I think he was 9. I actually just talked to him earlier. To this day he's like my brother. I'm fortunate enough to have grown up with a guy like that, especially with playing drums.

Were you learning from each other?

Man, he was at such a high level that I was learning from him, for sure. He had access to a lot of the guys that we were watching and he was exposed to the instrument at a very young age. I think the most that I gained from Thomas was how to find yourself through the instrument and how to really dedicate yourself to the craft. We used to cut high school together to go shed the whole day. We'd meet up at school, go to his house to play drums, and then go back to school for band. (laughs)

I also met Ronald Bruner through Thomas. I remember that Thomas would call Ronald and they would play drums over the phone! Those two are my brothers for sure.

Is Ronald still playing with Kamasi Washington?

Yeah, he is. I'm not sure what Thomas is doing right now but he does everything. I know that he was playing with Residente and before that Trash Talk. He's playing a lot in the bay area and he's always super active. I got to see him play with The Mars Volta and that was unreal.

Yeah. All of the drummers who have passed through that band have been phenomenal.

Yeah! Jon Theodore, Deantoni Parks, Thomas, Dave Elitch. All special dudes, for sure.

When you left the Bay Area, did you go straight to New York?

Not right away. I ended up auditioning for the Dave Brubeck Institute, which is at the University of Pacific, in Stockton, California. So I studied there for two years before moving to New York, which was actually a smart move because when I look back on myself at eighteen, I wouldn't have been ready for New York, as a human and as a musician.

It was cool to still be somewhat closer to home and to still be able to take the time to really figure it out. Eric Moore also lived in Stockton, California so I became really good buddies with him. He was my shed partner and we played drums every single day. Being there allowed me to really focus in on the instrument and that's where it hit me that I wanted to do this.

I learned that in order to be good you had to put in the time and the work. So that put me in a really good space and it became a habit of me just trying to get better.

Was it after studying in California that you went to the Julliard School for Music in New York?

I auditioned for the New School and Julliard, where I ended up getting a full scholarship. Once I saw the curriculum though I realised that it wasn't for me. Their curriculum was something that I had already been through, with all of my studies at high school and also at the Brubeck Institute.

I actually dropped out on the first day of school. I woke up and just thought, 'I can't do this'. I didn't even go to class, I went straight to the Dean and told him that it wasn't for me.

At the time there were so many musicians that I looked up to, from Steve Coleman to Yosvany Terry to Josh Roseman... I mean, Steve Coleman had a workshop every Monday at the Jazz Gallery and I used to go there and study. Then it was really about playing and learning what that experience was like, so I dropped out of school. It was the best thing for me because I was just ready to play.

That was a smart move.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes I look back on it and it probably would've been easy to go back to school and to get a degree and get my masters but I wasn't in that headspace. I was ready to play and I was on a mission to try to get better. So I dropped out of Julliard and spent one year in New York working. I got a day job at Guitar Centre just so I could survive. After six months I thought, 'if I'm really going to do this, I just have to fall face first'. I had to be involved in anything and everything that I could, from a restaurant gig to a jazz gig. I knew it was going to be really hard but I had to do it.

After that first year there I ended up going back to school. I went to the Manhattan School for Music and that's when I met other cool musicians and started to build a name for myself. While I was in school I got the call play with Kenny Garrett and after that I started touring.

After leaving Julliard and taking a year to work, do you feel like you benefitted from not fully going down the academic route at that point?

Absolutely. It felt like a better move for me to do that.

I still consider myself to be a jazz musician, and in New York you still have the masters there who are the great practitioners of this music. I was going to shows and sitting right up under the drums and watching everyone from Brian Blade to Billy Hart, and I even got see Max Roach when he was still around. So it was about going to check out the masters, asking them questions and really learning about the culture.

If I was doing a hip hop gig, I was going to the hip hop clubs and asking Rich Medina what albums to check out. CBGBs was still around, so I got to and see what that was like and to experience that. So it was about learning the culture of each music and I feel like that's something that they aren't going to teach you in school. It's something you have to find for yourself.

What would you like to see implemented in music education that wasn't present when you were studying, or that you feel is just absent?

That's a really good question. I think allowing more students the opportunity to check out the masters. They need to be bringing in people who have the real experience and not just a teacher who went to school, learned the methods and then says, 'here's how to be a jazz musician'. That's not the way to do it.

Colleges bring in master musicians but it's only a minuscule part of the thing. It'd be great to be able to call someone like Billy Hart and to take students to them, to see the show. Also, it's an economic game. Berkley and the Manhattan School for Music have the money to do it but I think it's really about grabbing a hold of the experience. You're not going to really grow unless you're out there doing it. You can be taught a bunch of theory but to be in the moment and playing is where it's at.

You've collaborated with a multitude of different artists including Flying Lotus, Thundercat and Esperanza Spalding, How have you found it adapting to all of those different situations?

It's all about connecting the line. They're all unique individuals but they're also very like-minded. They're vessels submitting to this music and they're all willing to grow. I feel like the more music you go and check out, the easier it is to connect the dots and be able to adapt.

I learned that I would play differently in certain situations, whether I was playing with Esperanza Spalding or Thundercat, but it was really all about submitting to the music and setting a foundation to make things feel good. It's all music and I just want to be able to bring out the characteristics of what the artist is trying to say. At the end of the day it's about having the mindset that it's really not about me. It's about a bigger picture and to be a vessel in a way that gives someone hope or inspiration throughout their daily life.

The physical aspect between the people I play with can also be different. Once I started playing with Thundercat, I knew that I could play in that style but I knew that I didn't have the physical capability and stamina to do it. So I had to go back to the drawing board in some ways. I even went to Thomas (Pridgen) and asked him, 'how do you not get tired playing these gigs?' He told me that not only do you have to play like that in your practice but you have to take care of yourself by getting proper sleep, drinking a lot of water and stretching. Over time it became easier.

I had a regimen within my practice where I would work on independence and groove, but then it just became about playing and getting my body in the flow. It takes a lot of patience to understand what works and how your body reacts to certain things, like when you play from fast to slow. Trying to relax the mind and body within that. It really comes down to submitting to it.

So it's mainly been the physical changes between gigs that I've had to adapt to more than the musical ones. I guess there are stylistic things which are different. I mean, with Esperanza it'll be sort of samba and bossanova, but with Thundercat it's more backbeat rock. Essentially it's about grooving, making the music feel good and always being open to learning. I try not to be single-minded in music, because the more things you're able to expose yourself to, the greater the musical language is that you can draw from. It's about always being 100% in it. Always checking out music and going to shows. Always talking about music, and just being a musical nerd. The more experience you get the more natural it becomes.

You played with Herbie Hancock. What was it like getting that call?

Bro. That was crazy. Playing with Herbie was a surreal experience. He's been a major influence on me throughout my musical journey so it was a dream come true.

I think it was Terrence Martin that recommended me. I got the call and did the rehearsal... I rarely get nervous but I was starstruck. I couldn't believe it was happening. For the first few days of the tour, it took me a little while to get over the hump. Like, 'oh, man, I'm on an airplane with Herbie Hancock! I'm eating with Herbie Hancock!' (laughs) On the third or forth day he walked up to me and said, 'Yo, Justin! You've been killing it these last few days!' And it just kind of took a load off me, because he was cool and he was feeling what I was doing.

I got to ask him a bunch of questions about Miles (Davis) and Tony (Williams). He actually told me that Tony played with John Coltrane, which was mind boggling to me.

What period would this have been in?

This would have been in the '60s. Herbie was really good friends with Tony, so I asked him: 'Man, did Tony ever play with Coltrane?' and he said that, yes, he did. There was a week at Birdland where something had happened with Elvin (Jones), where I think he might have got arrested, I believe. So Coltrane asked Tony to play that whole week. I asked Herbie, 'Are there any recordings of it?' and he said, “Yeah. I believe his wife has the recordings.” So it was documented.

Herbie never heard the recordings but he saw Tony afterwards and he said that Coltrane was the reason why Tony switched to playing with bigger sticks. Coltrane had so much stamina from playing as much as he did that Tony wanted to get on that same level. This was in the '60s, so already early on he was trying to get more energy and more power after playing with Coltrane. So that was a really cool moment that he shared with me.

Herbie's full spectrum, on a musical level and on a human level. He's extremely open and is very technically minded. We were all sitting at the dinner table one night and we're taking pictures on our phones. Herbie walks up and says, “you guys want to see something? You ever seen a 3D camera phone?” A company called Red made the first 3D camera phone and they sent him the first one. He was like, “yeah, they sent me the aluminium one. I asked for the titanium one, so that'll be waiting for me when I get back!” He's always been that guy. When Sony first started making CDs, they called him. When Midi was first starting to be used, he was one of the first guys to know about it. So it was just really cool to be in that space. I got to chat to him everyday.

He's not going back but he's moving forward into the beyond. I'll definitely cherish that moment [of playing with him] for the rest of my life. I knew going into it that I had be humble; to be thankful and learn as much as I could from Herbie. It definitely made me a better musician and a better human, just from that one month on the road with him. Just seeing how focused he is... it was unreal.

What have been some of the milestones in your playing that have pushed you creatively?

Meeting Herbie was definitely a milestone for me. Anytime I get to talk to one of the masters, I feel like that makes me a stronger human and a stronger musician. It makes me more confident in what I want to achieve. Playing with Kenny Garrett... as well as being able to play with my peers, you know. It's really cool to just be able to grow together.

The day I heard Caravan by Art Blakey when I was ten years old blew my mind. Just hearing how he played the drums and how much authority he had over the instrument was one of those moments where I thought, 'oh, so that's how you do it!'

For me it's about adapting to the energy of the room and being open in that sense as to how I can inspire someone. It goes back to submitting to the music. All of the practice, as well as checking out videos and seeing drummers live definitely helps, but I also want to be a musician that is completely in the moment. I don't ever want to go onto the bandstand thinking that I know what's going to happen. I want to have a mindset that is ready to expect the unexpected and to always play what is called for in the music. You have to be able to open yourself up to what's going to come out naturally and not try to force anything to come out.

All of those things have made me a better musician.

What's something that you've been paying attention to recently that's been inspiring you, either musically or non-musicially?

Well, I'm not really political but I am paying more attention to issues in the world, because as a black man, I feel like I have no choice, you know? I have no choice but to find a way to dumb down the bullshit. So I'm trying to pay more attention to what's going on in the world; to try and inspire someone to get through, because these are tough times.

I've been given a gift... in church you learn at a very young age that it's not about the accolades or being seen, it's about being a spiritual vessel, to give back and to give praise to the most high.

I guess musically I'm really paying a lot of attention to the drum community and seeing how social media is having an affect on it. I saw the transition with my generation, so it's a little harder for me to go all in and just post things up all of the time. I don't want to over expose myself, but I also just want to be a positive example for someone and to inspire the next generation of younger players, to show them that it's possible. I'm also paying more attention to my health, because with the older I get and the more I'm touring, my health is key to staying strong.

You put out the Nyeusi record a little while ago. Are planning on doing anything more with that project?

I'm still trying to figure it out. I am starting to hear the music and I am starting to get the inspiration to do another album, but I'm not sure if I'm going to call it Nyeusi, because I'm in a different space. With where my life is moving, and all the things I draw inspiration from, there might be a different message.

I wanted Nyeusi to be a theme of who I am more than anything. Even though it's my music it's still not about me whatsoever, and I wanted room for all the other musicians to speak in that project. I mean, I might do a Nyeusi II, just because it was well received and people gravitated towards it, which gave me the push to keep going.

It took a lot of energy and a lot of time to put that album out, and once it was out I didn't really do much touring. There was another side that I had to learn about which was how to be an artist and to present the music. Now, I'm more in a head space of wanting to play and wanting to get the music out live and create more content. So it's very loose and in the air, but I will say that for 2020 I'll be doing more shows with Nyeusi and I'm going to have more live content out, so that's where I'm at with it.

Any European dates for 2020?

Yeah, in the fall, and maybe even later on, and then just doing some shows in New York and L.A..

If you could give three albums to a drummer, which would you choose and why?

This is really difficult. Man.

Ok, I would say:

James Brown – Funky Drummer, or The Payback. Why James Brown? Because that's where hip-hop is coming out of, with backbeats and breakbeats. So it can provide a good foundation for someone wanting to become a hip-hop drummer and to have an understanding of the language. Not just James Brown but soul and funk music.

Miles Davis – Kind of Blue. Just because that's a quintessential record for jazz. You can hear where it's coming from and where it's going.

Stevie Wonder – Songs in the Key of Life. He's an amazing songwriter and he plays every instrument. Being a drummer, you can get so caught up in the drums that you lose sight of what the message is, and Stevie Wonder is a beautiful storyteller. The music is killing but there's also a message which makes you want to investigate the lyrics. You get a sense of purpose and what music is actually meant for; what your role is as a drummer, too.

What are some of the things that are currently challenging you, either as a musician or just on a human level?

On a human level, learning to love and respect everyone for who they are and what they do. To never knock another person's path. To always be encouraging and spread love, if you will.

As a player, and this is going to sound crazy, but playing louder and faster. (laughs)

I mean, that's a really hard thing for me so I'm really trying to develop and get my phrases and musical statements to be a lot stronger, so that it becomes a part of a language and not just a lick or a fill. So I really want to keep developing and getting better as a person.

Good answer. Thanks for taking the time to sit down and do this.

Man, no problem! Thanks for asking!

Interview & live photo by Dave Jones.

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