#romani erasure

[demiaroacejadeharley]

You know, I'm not surprised that Marvel has cast another white actor to play a Romani character. However, why the fuck would they cast an actor whose already played an established character in the past? They could have cast an actual Romani actor to play a Romani character after the backlash they received when they did the same thing to Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Wiccan, and Speed.

Also, not only Marvel shouldn't of casted Robert Downey Jr. because he played Iron Man, he shouldn't have gotten the role because he has a history of being racist. He did blackface for the movie Tropic Thunder and made a racist remark towards a Mexican director for criticizing superhero movies.

Marvel needs to listen to fans when it comes to proper representation. Many Jewish and Romani fans have called out Marvel for erasing Wanda and Pietro's Romani and Jewish heritage in the MCU by casting non Romani and non Jewish actors (although Aaron Taylor Johnson is Jewish). Marvel has also been silent on the many times Elizabeth Olsen has used the G slur on various occasions (especially after being told that the G slur is a racial slur). It doesn't help that Romani people are one of the most underrepresented marginalized groups in media.

I'm afraid that if the MCU brings in the X Men after buying out 20th Century Fox, they would erase Magneto's Jewish identity. On top of that, at one point, he was a Holocaust survivor in the comics. Being Jewish is an essential part of Magneto's storyline, and knowing Marvel, they would try to get rid of it like they did with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. Or cast a non-Jewish actor to play him like they did with Moon Knight.

At this point, I've lost faith in Marvel.

[spot-the-antisemitism]

I was talking about Robert downy jr being cast as dr doom, I wasn’t talking about magneto, sorry that wasn’t more clear

Dear anon,

I forgot they cast a gadjo and a terrible bigot to play a romani supervillain that'll whitewash in the MC

but still your argument that they found a Jewish actor to play a gentile is moot, if that was ever your point and not my mind connecting dots where there is none

but Magneto has also been whitewashed in every adaptation Miles Stoates, a podcaster with Jewish heritage reading one of Magneto's speeches aloud on an unofficial comics podcast is the closest we've gotten to a Jew playing or voicing Magneto

yours,

Cecil

[luckys-last-brain-cell]

Marvel keeps proving us right that they won’t represent Romani people by casting Romani actors.

And no, absolutely do not come here and say “Dr Doom is from a fictional country” because sure, but apparently the Romani people exist in that fictional country and the MCU has a history of this kind of erasure.

[tetsunabouquet]

I just heard that there are people planning to protest during 4 May against Israel. As a Dutch woman of Roma heritage, I AM FUMING. To those who don't know: 4 May is national memorial day in the Netherlands where we remember those who died during WWII. Whilst I find you anti-semitic fucks who are villifying every Jew in existence for what's currently happening in Israel to be awful - targeting 4 May when that day is for EVERY minority hunted down during WWII means you are targeting ALL of our communities. Remember how I mentioned that during my final year of elementary school I had a hag of a teacher? I literally remember arguing with her about how the history books barely talk about us. The REAL estimated number of deaths could have been as high as 1,5 MILLION Roma unlike the reported '400K' you'll find in your history pages. I have seen in YouTube videos from Americans and Canadians how they solely talk about the Jews and are trying to make it about black people with the unproven historic sentiment that Jewish people originally were black. I've even heard statements written out loud from American musea who only mentioned us like a footnote before talking about black people in length. Reported numbers of black people castrated/killed during WWII were a couple of thousand because that's how few black people there were in Europe. The Roma are the biggest racial group hunted down during WWII, stop trying to take that away from the potential million people that died! Give their souls the respect they deserve. How sick in the head do you have to be to be like, 'This major genocide has to be about MY race'- when the actual group hunted down for their skin and culture wasn't yours. My deadbeat dad and his sisters are more lily white looking as I always call it, but grandpa was a bit more Roma looking like me and my late grandma did make a few implied statements that it was his father who had a Romani mother. That was during WWII. My great-great grandmother likely was an elderly lady hunted down like a rat during this period. The fact my paternal family didn't had any pictures of my great-grandfather unlike his wife, worries me but it's too heavy of a subject to talk about with relatives that I have a strained relationship with. How can you make that about you? Tell me! Another one of my great-grandfathers wasn't a member of the Resistance but he did help out with food smuggling. Ever heard of the Dutch famine during WWII? My great-grandfather tried to keep regular Dutch citizens alive and was willing to stick his neck out as one of the richer families of the area to help the lesser priviliged and he was publically beaten for it by the Nazis as an example for the townsfolk. He's the only male relative I am proud of to be related to, because that was an act of bravery and generosity worthy of praise.

Not every wealthy white man is a greedy devil, my great-grandfather proved that. As much as I hate Frank Timmermans (Dutch politican), I do agree with his statement that you can protest on every fucking day of the year- just not memorial's day. This day belongs to so many non-Jews too and making this about Israel is just overshadowing the other victims once more. We haven't done anything to deserve to get erased. Yet the media, history books and non-Roma do that very thing. In my own personal experience, even the gays are mentioned more often then we are. The only group that might be more forgotten then we are, are the disabled. And as an autistic individual that also earns my ire.

I can bet my ass off that none of those sickening protesters would have been hunted down if we lived during WWII, unlike me. I have to live with that and the handful of people throughout my life who did call my blood impure. LEAVE 4 MAY ALONE!

[djuvlipen]

you people really think poc are interchangeable. "nooo they are whitewashing heathcliff!! let's give love to the 2011 adaptation instead, where heathcliff is played by a black man". romani people and anti-romani racism have a very specific history in the uk (which is reflected, for better and for worse, in wuthering heights). it's still romani erasure even when the character is played by a black gadjo. just like casting ciara renée (mixed black, native and indian) in hunchback of notre-dame was romani erasure. just like casting norm lewis to play javert was racist against romani people. it's just as much a form of romani erasure and anti-romani racism as casting white people for the role

[i-am-trans-gwender]

MCU and whitewashing

Despite Dr Doom being Romani in the comics he has been portrayed by white anglo actors in the 1994, 2005, 2007 and 2015 movies.

In upcoming MCU movies he will be played by a white American Robert Downey Jr.

You'd think Marvel would learn their lesson after the backlash of whitewashing The Mandarin in Iron Man 3 and the Ancient One in Doctor Strange.

While not as vocal the MCU's depiction of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as white Eastern Europeans, despite being Romani and (sometimes) Jewish in the comics has been criticized. While Aaron Taylor-Johnson is Jewish he's not Romani. Meanwhile Elizabeth Olsen is neither Romani or Jewish.

[theatrekidenergy]

Man so like I’ve just been thinking about how, as someone who is primarily ethnically Slavic / Eastern European how much we are portrayed as being foul, cold, angry, alcoholic, and just straight up villains? And don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge marvel fan, but it’s Marvel that has such a large influence it’s only worsened as a result of their influence on other franchises doing the same. And on top of that their erasure of Romani characters (once again, hi, also part Romani here), like Wanda who was originally written to be Romani in the comics? How she was completely stripped of that in her character, even though it was a part of her identity and herself in writing. Which is just, so, infuriating.

Whenever you see any representation — especially in western media — of your culture which little you wanted to see just so desperately, they were either erased or the villains in the comics and movies you’d obsess over, and I know so so many others had the same experience. Who knows, maybe I’m just ranting, and I know so many people might think I’m complaining over something simple, but I do think about it, and it’s frustrating. It’s so, so frustrating.

[batfambrainrotbeloved]

Trying to look into Romani culture for writing POC Dick Grayson is realizing "Holy fuck why is so much of this so blatantly racist"??

Like i've seen PROFESSIONAL articles that have used the words "Savage" and "Barbaic" or talking about religious indoctrination as "they accepted the true future of Jesus"??

And this is coming from someone who is NOT an Atheist- but holy shit some of this makes my skin crawl in the worst possible way.

[rainbowsuitcase]

honestly, i don't care much what they do with rdj as doom. i don't care at all if there's one singular comics universe that would make it make sense. i hate it because of what they already decided not to do with it.

[originalleftist]

Signed.

If you have a minute, this petition is mine. Please join me in telling Marvel Studios how unacceptable this is.

[scarlet--wiccan]

Agatha All Along, the highly anticipated follow-up to WandaVision, begins airing this week on Disney+. Now is the perfect to revisit some important information about both shows and the context in which some of Agatha's new characters are being introduced.

WandaVision primarily followed the character Wanda Maximoff and expanded on her family history by introducing her late parents as well her twin sons, who are born from magic and age rapidly over the course of the series.

In the Marvel comics source material, Wanda is part of a large, multigenerational family of Jewish and Romani characters whose stories frequently reflect the systemic violence and oppression that both communities face-- including Romani Holocaust victims, who are critically underrepresented in both education and media. In the MCU, these identities and histories are completely erased, and the characters are all played by white actors. Alternate versions of these characters also appear in the Fox X-Men films, and are similarly whitewashed.

The Romani people are a racialized minority that originated as a South Asian diaspora, and who face severe systemic oppression in Europe and North America. The modern Romani population is quite diverse, but they are not of white ethnic origin, and despite the fact that Wanda and her family have historically been drawn with white features, they are minority characters and ought to be considered as such.

Depictions of witches and witchcraft are often entwined with antisemitism and anti-Romani racism. In pop culture, witches and fortunetellers are typically portrayed as visual stereotypes of Romani women. In the real world, fortunetelling is a profession born from survival work, one which Romani families are often heavily policed and racially profiled for practicing. While Wanda usually subverts these tropes, they are often played straight elsewhere in the superhero genre, and any story about witches, especially one featuring Romani characters, needs to be critiqued in this context.

Agatha All Along introduces viewers to a new cast of characters, including Lilia Calderu, played by Patti LuPone, and the enigmatic "Teen", played by Joe Locke, who is heavily speculated to be an incarnation of Wanda's son, Billy.

In the comics, Lilia is a member of a prominent Romani family in Wanda's community. Often lauded as the "witch queen of the gypsies," Lilia embodies many racial stereotypes about Romani women. In Agatha All Along, Lilia is depicted as an older Sicilian woman, however, being portrayed as a batty fortuneteller with a tawdry psychic shop, she still embodies an offensive trope. Although Lilia is far from "good" representation, this is not an improvement-- if anything, it's even more exploitative.

Billy was raised in a Jewish American household and places a very strong emphasis on his Jewish identity, in addition to having Romani heritage. His identity as a young gay man is always presented in conjunction with this heritage, not in spite of it. Though there is a significance to Locke being a gay actor playing a gay character, his casting-- if he is indeed playing Billy-- is not authentic. White gay representation should not supersede racial inclusivity, and it is not an excuse for whitewashing or Jewish erasure.

Marvel Studios recently announced that the character Doctor Doom will be played by Robert Downey Jr., who is returning to the franchise after many years in the role of Iron Man. In the source material, Doom is also a Romani character with a very similar background to Wanda's. This identity is central to Doom's character-- although he is written to be both morally and politically challenging, the liberation of his people has always been a primary motive.

Clearly, this type of whitewashing is an ongoing pattern in the MCU franchise. Although "Teen's" identity is still unconfirmed and Lilia may, ultimately, be of little consequence, they are part of a larger problem, and Agatha All Along needs to critiqued in that context.

[tetsunabouquet]

That Hunchback of Notre Dame ask I received reminds me of something I wanted to post ages ago: a rant directed at Disney. Now, thankfully other people have already adressed the subject about how wrong it portrayed Romani people and have went in depth about how the original book was very strongly anti-Roma and not good source material for positive Romani depiction in the first place. But can I just say that I already fear Disney is going to insult us again with the live-action and how angry I am at Disney for their lack of Esmeralda merchandise? Growing up, I always wanted to have an Esmeralda doll precisely because I am part Roma and she was the only Disney character who had a similar skintone as I did and was the only popular example of media representation I had as a kid of mixed heritage. But no matter how often my mom dragged to local toys stores, I never spotted an Esmeralda doll. I made peace by getting a Belle doll, because to this day she is the only princess who has hazel brown eyes like me and my hair is more like a dark chestnut opposed to her lighter chestnut hair. As a kid I always identified as a mix between Belle and Esmeralda, you know? But I was still sour I never had Esmeralda as a doll. The fact that because of the live action, this might be the first time that Esmeralda dolls will be widely sold, I want to scream out of anger. We had dolls of nearly every racial background imaginable in toys stores, except for Esmeralda despite the fact she outdates most of the POC princesses in existence and the movie being a year older then I am! She deserved to be in the toys aisle DECADES ago! Disney doesn't gives a shit about actual diversity as their lack of Esmeralda dolls showcases that they're only doing it to appease Twitter and not actually care about the little girls who want a doll just like them. If you want further proof, look at the Wrack-it-Ralph scene with the Disney Princesses and how Esmeralda is NOWHERE to be found! She is a Disney Princess, so why is she the only one who isn't there?! I generally identify as white because that was how I was raised, but anyone can see I am not 100% white and I definitely did had my insecurities about not looking lily white as a little girl. I wanted a doll that looked like me and I could identify with too. The fact toys stores have sold white AND black Ariel dolls before they even sell Esmeralda dolls, is what I see as a slap in the face.

[dalekofchaos]

Doctor Doom gets ruined AND WHITEWASHED AGAIN!

4 attempts to get Doctor Doom right

4

And we STILL can’t get this right

A master of magic and science. A man who rivals Doctor Strange and Reed Richards as the most powerful sorcerer and the smartest man alive. He rules an entire country with an army of Doombots. Considered to be one of the greatest Marvel villains. And they still can't get him right. They have to make him a fucking Tony Stark variant. Tony Stark is not Victor Von Doom and Doom is above Tony Stark.

Victor wearing the mask always is integral to his appeal and aura like Vader's mask. It not only hides his vain scars he caused due to his failures, but it closes him off from humanity and makes him believe he’s beyond it.

As far as I'm concerned Marvel Ultimate Alliance and EMH are the only good adaptations of Doom

Doctor Doom being a romani man with a background CENTERING his family's racial persecution. with his ethnicity at the forefront of his motivations and his tragedy. and they really just brought back Robert Downey Jr.

Being romani is INTEGRAL to doom’s character and without that he’s not doom. he NEEDS to be romani and played by a romani character. full stop, don't believe me? Read Book Of Dooms.

Since 1964 Victor von Doom has been established as a Romani character. His childhood was filled with antiziganism and his parents deaths were caused by it. This later led him to become Doctor Doom and overthrow the Latverian government to protect his people

I am so fucking sick and tired of this whitewashing bullshit and the ethnoerasure of Marvel characters.

The Maximoff Twins, The Ancient One, Moon Knight and now fucking Doom.

God fucking forbid an actual Romani actor PLAYS A ROMANI CHARACTER.

But no they pulled another fucking multiverse shit all so RDJ could return and it all feels like blackface from Tropic Thunder

I DON'T GIVE A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT ANTHONY STARK FROM EARTH-11029 OR INFAMOUS IRON MAN

If you wanted evil Iron Man so fucking bad, why didn't you just do Superior Iron Man?

The LAZIEST, DUMBEST, most CONTRIVED BULLSHIT casting ever, Marvel continues to not beat the whitewashing allegations. Doctor Doom deserved better.

Romani actor Charlie Clapman was right fucking there AND HE ENDORSED IT!

I'd even suggest Romani actor Óscar Jaenada as Doom. Again another Roma actor who's actively interested in playing Doom

And you know what? As bad as the 1994 movie was, Joseph Culp the first actor to play Doom in the Fantastic Four (1994) movie by Oley Sassone & Richard Corman. Culp was also white but he very clearly cared for the comics background of Victor von Doom

and you also know damn well they're going to erase everything about Magneto too that makes him who he is… which is his entire fucking background. how horrible of a person do you have to be to repeatedly disrespect the minorities who created these stories?

Doctor Doom is Roma Romani. He is not white. The MCU loves to whitewash its Roma and Jewish characters and it’s time we called them out for it. Dr Doom is not a white man, he is Roma!

They will never nail down the complexity of Victor Von Doom

Every year Doom goes to hell to fight Mephisto to rescue the soul of his mother. He finally won her soul with the help of Doctor Strange only for her to reject him.

No evil Stark replicant will ever fucking match the complexity of Victor Von Doom.

I don't care if this is a one time thing for RDJ. They specifically chose to do this when the fans were begging for a fucking Romani actor. It also doesn't fucking help that Marvel has erased nearly EVERY fucking ethnic character has been whitewashed.

Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver: Erased Romani heritage and whitewashed. Moon Knight & Wiccan: Casted non-Jewish actors. Sabra: Featured in anything at all, and actress is an IDF soldier to make matters worse.

The MCU is full of ethnic erasure, military propaganda & racism. it’s disgusting this is continuing with Dr Doom’s casting. remember to continue to boycott marvel, because of the genocide they support by casting an iof solider to play a character from the zionist terrorist occupation

Dr Doom is one of those villains that it should be IMPOSSIBLE to fuck up but wasting him on a cheap Iron Man nostalgia casting pop might be the way

[fromchaostocosmos]

and what if as an added bonus we declared that this version of them of was the most sacred one of all.

marvel: what if all our romani & jewish characters…. weren’t

[mage-of-mip]

Half-Foots and Ainu Culture in Dungeon Meshi

It sometimes feels like I might be grasping at straws with this, but I do feel like it's not completely unfounded. Please note, I am a white woman living in the USA, I am by no means an expert on Japanese culture in general, much less a marginalized subculture. I have simply made limited attempts to educate myself out of genuine interest born from exposure to media about Ainu characters and culture. I am always hoping to learn more.

I think it's fairly obvious that many parallels can be drawn between Ryoko Kui's Half-Foot race, and more than one ethnicity or subculture in real life. Romani, Irish, and Jewish stereotypes come to mind immediately.

But I think there's another one that may be explored less in the text, and much harder to catch by a western reader, but nonetheless could be intended by Kui, or perhaps was at one point. That of the Ainu people of Hokkaido, Japan.

There's not a lot of translated information about the Ainu online, so please bear with my limited knowledge. In short, the Ainu are the indigenous people of Northern Japan. For generations, their way of life has been taken from them and they were forced to assimilate to the wider Japanese culture. There are not many who still fully practice the cultural heritage in this day, but there are movements to bring the Ainu culture back.

In Delicious in Dungeon, there are two instances that reference the Ainu, both relating to Chilchuck. This could, of course, be a coincidence, especially if there are more references that I missed. It may be flimsy, but it still feels significant that this is the case, and that Half-Foots are or were meant to be an allusion to the Ainu.

This is the first instance. A significant panel in the context of the story. To my knowledge, this is the only specifically Ainu dish that's referenced in the text. On it's own, its just an interesting factoid, and the same dark humor that's being used for all the other character deaths in this fight against Thistle.

This is the second instance. From the supplemental material rather than the main story, Chilchuck is discussing what Half-Foots are called across the languages. The one that caught my eye here is the one in the top corner. Korpokkur.

The Korpokkur are a race of small people in Ainu folklore, their name meaning "those who live under the butterbur leaves".

Again, in a vacuum, this could just be a Japanese person using a Japanese word [Edit: Correction; An Ainu word] in her manga. But I think it's interesting that the two instances of Ainu culture being referenced have to do with Chilchuck and Half-Foots as a whole. It could warrant a deeper read-through looking for other references, perhaps by someone more educated than myself.

I think this could have some interesting implications in the wider worldbuilding. Perhaps the Half-Foots have faced similar cultural erasure and assimilation attempts, which is why a lot of their customs and clothing are just "Tallman but smaller", and why other races regularly mistake them for the children of tallmen, despite having pretty noticeable differences in how they look other than just their height(their disproportionately large ears, for example).

This idea might be a tad more indulgent, but I also like the idea that Half-Foot children don't receive a permanent name until they are toddlers. At one point, in Ainu culture(this may not be practiced today, I could not find information on that), the Ainu would give their children "vulgar" placeholder names until they started forming personalities, as a ward against evil spirits. Perhaps the same is done for Half-Foot children, and their two part names are selected when they are a little older.

Again, these are just the observations of an outsider looking in, please feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made! And if I'm completely off-base or have said something offensive, I apologize and will delete or amend the post as necessary.

[icedsodapop]

Whitewashing Romani Marvel characters and the erasure of Romani influences, from a Romani perspective: