#rant over hahaha
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Naruto au where Jiriya comes back to Konoha to adopt Naruto like he promised to do but somewhere along the way they get Tsunade back in the village and Tsunade becomes Sasukes caretaker (She adopts him but neither are comfortable calling eachother mother and son yet so they stick with "The Lady in my house who cooks bad" and "the brat who doesn't appreciate good meals when he sees them")
Then at some point when Naruto and Sasuke are genins Jiriya and Tsunade get married and now Naruto and Sasuke have to live together. There's a really emotional scene of Sasuke having to say goodbye to his old home and its like "oh god its really all over they're not coming back I'm not coming back I can't just leave them behind I need to let go but I just can't do it" and Tsunade calls Sasuke her son for the first time and he totally doesn't cry!!!
Forest of death but Sasuke Sakura and Naruto already know who Orochimaru is, Sasuke knows absolutely not to trust him so the curse mark doesn't really affect him too horribly but it does lead for a lot of tension in the group. Also after being the girlboss she was born to be Sakura decides she can't be protected anymore and bc Tsunade is like, right there she asks her if she can be trained and Tsunade says yes obv. Hiruzen dies purely because i hate that guy but Orochimaru also dies to Jiriya and Tsunade also because I really really hate him too.
Theres the time when Kisame and Itachi visit Konoha and Itachi hears Naruto refer to Tsunade as his mom and Sasuke as his brother and hes GOT to know what's going on so he spies on them and learns that Sasukes been adopted but he sees this moment of Tsunade announcing she's pregnant (what a shocker she was 🤏 that close to never having to worry about pregnancy ever again but Jiriya just couldn't keep it in his pants for another 2 years, the manwhore.) And itachi sees Sasuke realising he's gonna be an older brother and being super happy about it saying he's gonna be the best big brother ever (Hades hangs his laundry on the bar its so low all he's gotta do is not kill everyone and he's already better than Itachi) and Itachi is like "ah man but how's he gonna get stronger there's no hatred in there i need him to do my suicide for me!!!" But Jiriya noticed he was there and confronts him a little later but see Jiriyas a little smarty pants and has been living in Konoha for years and always knew there was something fishy with the massacre and danzo so Jiriya just bluffs his way to the truth (Phoenix is that you?) And he's like "look Sasukes ur brother but he's my son now, he has enough nightmares and enough trauma and enough trust issues to last him a lifetime feck off and if you wanna die so bad then kill yourself and don't use your brother as a tool for ur suicide" <- I may be projecting a bit but ANYWAYS Itachi and Kisame have to leave Konoha bc Naruto is under watch by Kakashi, Tsunade and Jiriya and they are NAWT winning that fight.
Skip to shippuden era Sasuke v/ Itachi fight but Itachis been skipping out on his meds!! (He did it because he's a nerd loser guy who thinks "oh man sasuke isn't angry or filled with hatred and overall living a really terrible and unfufilling life he's probably so weak i need to stoop down to his level") Oh no so hes really super sick and Sasuke has picked up a lot from Tsunade so he knows Itachis time is near and although Sasuke really wants Itachi dead he's like "fuck it, dude you absolutely ruined my life and gave me trauma I'm never ever going to recover from sometimes I still wonder if my friends or family are going to turn around and kill me do you know how fucked that is why the hell did you even do that I don't want some bullshit excuse tell me" like he absolutely chews that loser (derogatory) out and Itachi is like, "kk ill tell u everything" and Sasuke is RUINED and he takes like a long 30 minutes of silence between the two just sitting there for Sasuke to go like "Itachi, I don't... think I forgive you. But I understand why you did it. I would have done it too" And its very emotional!! That moment is all Itachi needs bc he was sort of barely clinging onto life as it is and now that he's got peace he can finally die and they share a really sweet moment before he goes :(
And when Sasuke gets home and cries, (this time he can admit it cause he's a big boy now and understands it's okay to feel) to Tsunade he calls her his mother for the first time and its so ahaishahabnabsjsjnd
Anyways they all lived happily ever after the end no wars no nothing all over bye bye
#naruto#naruto shippuden#naruto uzumaki#haruno sakura#itachi uchiha#uchiha massacre#sasuke uchiha#tsunade senju#Jiriya#Naruto au#Au#orochimaru#When orochimaru dies they all sing that one wizard of Oz song “The witch is dead”#Buy they can't make it a national holiday because that's the day the Hokage died and its a wee bit disrespectful ngl#Though personally I celebrate both deaths with a smile on my face#Uh oh I went on a wee rant there whoopsies hahaha eughhh#The only war in this world is the 1 over the dinner table when Sasuke is desperately trying to stop Naruto from putting ketchup on his food#Sasuke worked hard on that please don't ruin it Naruto#The child was a girl BTW and they spoil her to the max degree but she just likes kakashi more#(Kakashi despises children and wants her AWAY)
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Thinking about that one time two Germans joined a (majorly American) discord server I was in and I joked about 'germanizing' the server and like. flooding it with Schnitzel and compound nouns or something similar, and another member didn't wait a millisecond to make a Nazi joke. I was too polite to call her out on it back then but... not very cool/hot/megastar/megawatt of her in retrospect.
#namethat-i.txt#i've never vague-posted before but well. hrm.#was mostly reminded of this bc i saw the 'did you ever cause fandom drama before' poll#i really should have told her to knock it the fuck off because that wasn't the first or last time she did that#i only said something like hahaha dont you want in on the schnitzel evenings?? really should be less polite sometimes.#anyway fuck servers where english speakers are whining to the mods about making a separate channel because people dare to not speak english#(or rather fuck the whiners. said mods didnt comply because they also thought it was bullshit)#auhgaæh rant over sorry. respect other languages on the americanized internet and carry on thank you good night#<333
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The Promised Neverland x RC9GN
So, since I am on a temporary break from asks- I decided to go ahead and post some more coherent thoughts on the crossover literally no one except ONE person was interested in (/lh). I didn't expect the post to gain even the slightest bit of traction, so seeing someone with the same type of rotting interest actually made my day-
I actually wanted to focus on what came before Randy had even been born (aka what the deal with 'the Ninja' is because this idea barely makes an ounce of sense), so without much further ado- let's continue!
The First Ninja is meant to parallel William Minerva/James Ratri. He was a descendant of the original founders which had been involved in 'the Promise' and originally he didn't fully question their behavior, it was more so along the lines of "if I pretend everything is fine, I won't have to acknowledge how I feel about it", but as things kind of escalated- he couldn't bring himself to just sit aside and ignore it. At some point, he flat out rebelled (not that anyone was aware of what he'd begun to do-) and was leaving behind evidence to alert the farms orphanages about what was going on.
Now if you've been following my content at all, you know I talk about the Norisu 9 every so often- I like to think they were also involved and contributed in different ways to the first wave of resistance. The First Ninja is still a warrior in this crossover and I like to think he supplied weapons, things that would harm the demons but going against their leader was a lot harder than he thought it would
(The leader who, of course, is the Sorcerer)
Finja fought bravely, but as punishment for his disobedience- he was subject to watching his entire clan die before his eyes. Forced to live with the guilt, he broke off from the resistance (at least that was the agreement- he would continue working for the demons until someone else took over his role upon death) and went back to the life he held previously. However unbeknownst to the Sorcerer, Finja had left behind something important: the Nomicon.
A tome that contained tunnels and maps of the Demon World, the key to paradise. It held the bunker with a supply of weapons and arsenal, and everything- Finja had entrusted a demon known as “the Messenger” to hand it down, but there was one problem to this plan: who would carry on the mantle?
A decision was made for it to be left in the least likely of locations: one of the farms.
The Messenger had unique powers- allowing them to find the next “Ninja”, someone who possessed specific traits and could carry on what Finja had started. Years came to pass, each with varying levels of success (a few managed to cause a new wave of resistance, one unfortunate kid got adopted- and the rest, well, who knows what became of them). First Ninja’s name was forgotten over the years and the book would continue to be handed down.
The First Ninja is bound to the book- whether this makes in the original Promised Neverland canon is irrelevant, because well, I make the rules (/lh). I like to think he has the ability to communicate with the current holder of the book, but unlike the RC9GN canon- things work a little differently.
He communicates with the current ‘Ninja’ via dreams- sending ominous signs and continuing to hand them lessons but there isn’t any ‘shloomping’ into the Nomicon. Things just work a little differently, if anything-
The book is eventually left in the hands of Randy, but that is a story for another day.
Finja was left with immense survivor’s guilt- knowing he had failed his siblings, he had failed the children, everyone who wanted the nightmare of the Promise to end. He lost the hope things would ever right themselves. His actions came with unfortunate consequences, and in the years leading up to his death- he isolated himself from everyone. Though his allies attempted to honor his wishes, even if he didn’t know about what they had done.
(I might tie Rei Izumi into this, but we’ll see-)
His legacy continues and for one particular boy, and the people he cares about, everything is going to change. Sooner than they think.
Written as a partial gift to @thesoundofmadness! Also because I am just fixated on this universe lol, but these are my thoughts for now! More will be dropped eventually, hope you enjoy the rest of your day loves!
#randy cunningham 9th grade ninja#rc9gn#rc9gn crossover#the promised neverland#tpn#the promised neverland crossover#tpn crossover#first ninja#rc9gn first ninja#rc9gn the creep#randy cunningham crossover#the crossover no one asked for#self indulgent#self indulgent shenanigans#norisu 9#norisu clan#angst#this does not have a clear ending right now#there is a lot that is still left to finalize with the promised neverland crossover but trust me you’re in for a wild ride#randy cunningham#finja has a lot of trauma holy shit#he really goes through it in this universe#lore rambles#world building#lore rant#infodump#the first ninja is supposed to be the original william minerva#you are going to hate me so much when this is over but i promise to be nice#well! eventually hahaha#good luck with this
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i love reading peoples' opinions on trigun but sometimes i will see an opinion that is so like. bewilderingly wrong it actually makes me doubt my own interpretation of the source material
#rora rants#AND THIS IS ON ME.#because sometimes i assume something is obvious when maybe it requires a bit more textual analysis#but then sometimes people TEST me and it's like#i need to write my 200k vashwood character study ten times faster clearly#because what in the world are you people talking about#granted i'm not often fully devoted to the most popular ship in a fandom so the experience of people constantly#banging them over the head with pots and pans#isn't a familiar one to me. because usually in the rarepair fandoms people are OBSESSED with the characters in a#really textual analysis way#so you dont get that#unfortunately vashwood is more popular so... more margin of error#and frankly i'm not incredibly picky i can still enjoy things when i dont completely agree with them#some of my favourite vw fics are ones where i'm like he would not fucking say that but... this is so good#but then other times i'm just baffled! because how did you come to that conclusion#sorry HAHAHA i just had to get this off my chest
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so we can have a bonkers w.olverine horny revival whenever but only 10 people at any time want to fuck c.able. ok maybe I have special eyes. jk where is his special moment
#totally understand losing your mind over w.olverine though like right there with you im just like helloooo#we've had mostly the same 20 fics for like 6 years and even lost some to deletion 😭#petty ranting about a lack of appreciation and enthusiasm for my fav I guess erm no everyone must also be obsessed with him#okay he doesnt have the breadth of content in the popular conciousness that w.olverine does#Maybe if we get everyone to retroactively watch d.eadpool 2 we can make it happen HAHAHA IDKKKK i really dont understand the disinterest#DID HE NOT DO IT FOR YOU#edit I appreciate the fic writers that DO write for c.able so much though because THAT'S HUSBAND!!!! this is more about#me wishing there was more momentum and large scale enthusiasm. not that people aren't working hard enough to pump out 'content'#in some ways the niche nature of c.ablefucking means every fic is a special treasure#yeah it's been a few years since the movie but it's not like he got less hot. it surprised me then and it still surprises me now#that it was so lukewarm in terms of c.able sexualisation on this site lmao WHERE ARE THE OLD MAN FUCKERS#but yes. of course we are so lucky that people will share any original handmade work of your favourite character & you have the privilege#of getting to see it
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hmm i wonder if tumblr user ferncloud likes ferncloud...
/.\ MAYBE...
#LOL#when i first got this username in 2014 i liked her just fine but in a sort of whatever way#over the years ive grown quite attached HAHAHA i love her shes so kitty of all time#her mother is killed horrifically and left outside her home & she immediately offers herself to lead the dogs which is a near death sentenc#& weeks later she participates in a massive battle to the death with bloodclan... these events r often credited as traumatic experiences#explaining ashfurs terrible life choices but ferncloud went thru the same thangs. & then dustpelt.... was an adult hovering over her through#out all of this. & then she just wants to have kittens & if were reading into it maybe she wants to raise kittens the way she wishes she was#raised but many of her kittens die early or make it to adulthood but die b4 her. & on top of just what we know about her life shes hated by#thousands of readers for being a woman who wants to raise kids. & SHES KILLED CUZ SHES SO HATED...#i notice even now ferncloud is still reduced to motherhood by a lot of ppl#& thats ok its not that deep shes a bg character its nobodys job to think about everything. but she can be so personal & special & emo too#she is to me 💗 im proud to be a ferncloud. if ferncloud has 0 fans it cuz i died 😁#Oh i also have the handdrawn comic page from a shadow in riverclan by james that has ferncloud blushing at feathertail LOL#i am sooooooooo sorry for this miles long tags rant#ask
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imissmyboysimissmyboysimissmyboysimissmyboysimissmyboysimissmy
Disney if you don’t give them back to me RIGHT NOW.
#I miss them so much#:’(#moonknight season 2 when#like PLEASE#GIVE THEM BACK#NEOW#may or may not have wept real tears over them#I guess you could say I got that chaos in me#HAHAHA MOONKNIGHT REFERENCE (I am slowly losing my marbles/hj)#non tickles#me ranting
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voters in the bottom 3/4ths of household incomes voting to give me and my husband a tax break while raising their own:
youtube
#personal#FUCK i know people in dual lawyer households... and dual big tech income households who campaigned for her#even though they make over the 400k to have their taxes raised.... cause they CARE ABOUT OTHERS???#(like we're no where near that now... and probably won't reach that??? maybe will if i get a senior art director position eventually#and he gets like a senior lead imports management job but that's both very late career in our 50s)#but still........... my mom's also in the /tr*mp tax break/ range... cause her income is mostly capital gains now#and she's just ranting at trumpers on socials like ''lol u voted to give ur money to me cuz u hate minorities hahaha''
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I feel like at least several times a month, I have a random insane revitalization of my love for The Smiths. Not that I ever stop loving them, but I'll listen to some song and then suddenly fall into this pit of just deep, intense love for their music again where I can't stop listening to their music on repeat and watching live performances and looking at pics like AAAAAHHHHHH WHY IS THEIR MUSIC SO GOOOD?????? WHY IS IT PERFECT?????? WHY WERE THEY SO GENDER???????
(songs I am feeling intense brainrot over rn in case you're curious: "I Want The One I Can't Have(live)", "Stretch Out and Wait(live)", "You Just Haven't Earned It Yet Baby", "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others(demo)", "What She Said", "The Boy With The Thorn in His Side(live)"(p.s. I Want The One I Can't Have is Martian-coded to me, pls listen)(also it reminds me of that movie I watched yesterday)
#i want the one i cant have is playing on repeat in my brain rn and i watched a live performance and i was tearing up. why am i like this#the live versions of their songs are just incredibly good like at an insane level to me#i know the guitar is very complicated bcs my brother is equally obsessed w the smiths and rants to me abt how hard their music is to play#so the fact that their live performances are equal if not better than their studio versions is crazy#and i love the way he sings in live versions AAAAHHHH like just so over the top and dramatic#i absolutely love singing along to music and their songs are perfect bcs i can be as dramatic and loud as i want#and that hes singing perfectly and dramatizing it so much also while dancing along to it on stage??????#their music has an energy to it in every single aspect that no other band will ever be able to reach for me#i spent so much of today just dancing along to their music and singing over the top. i just felt so joyful 🥹🥹🥹🥹#GAAAHHHH sorry i just am really in it rn hahaha#its just crazy to me ig that ive listened to these songs so many times and they still fill me with such emotion#my mom sings and dance along w me tho shes like 'wow youre so energetic today did you hit your head or smth' 😭😭😭#also was losing my mind looking at their pictures today and gahhhhhhhhb such gender envy their gender is unmatched to me#but its so funny every time i get gender envy over smiths era morrissey +#because theres some pics of my dad from that same period of time when he was younger where he literally looks exactly like morrissey#SIR WHY DID I NOT INHERIT YOUR LEVEL OF GENDER???????(my dad was a icon sjdkkd we look alike tbh)#anyways: i feel very joyful and energetic about their music. they just make me so happy and i want to dance around again 🥹#i think this recent lapse into the pit was bcs i listened to the demos/live versions on The Queen is Dead deluxe edition#and im like ....how the fuck are they this fucking good??????#hehehe tho my passion has affected others 🤭#my brother is learning some songs on guitar atm and waxes poetic abt their instrumentals#my dad always listens to their entire discography when he needs background music. and my mom sings and dances w me#sorry this is unhinged i just feel a lot of serotonin bcs their music and i need to infect other people LMAO#maybe i need to make another web weave#catie.rambling.txt
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Just read Sonic IDW 56 and I’m not fucking with you, I’m sending Shadow and Surge on a one way path straight to therapy together.
#KIT NEEDS IT TOO BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THESE TWO#EVERYONE NEEDS THERAPY AFTER THAT CHAPTER#ME INCLUDED#OH MY GOD#I LOVE SURGE SHE’S SO#I BINGED ALL OF THE SURGE ARC AND NOW I NEED TO RECOVER#STEP 1: CRY OVER YOUR FAVS#sonic the hedgehog#surge the tenrec#shadow the hedgehog#idw comics#sonic idw#idw sonic 56#vienna rants#IM SO SORRY TO ONE OF MY FRIENDS I JUDT DUMPED A TON OF SURGE LORE ON HER IN THE MIDDLE OF WORK BECAUSE I CANT WRITE HAHAHA
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not being able to fit in even with the groups of ppl who don’t fit in lol sometimes it feels like this high school mentality will never end.
#ranting in the tags#not that it matters but i’m sensitive so i’m gonna complain no matter what#being called a loner all your life then turning it into some kind of badge of honor#bc it’s the only way not being able to click with or connect with ppl stings less#it only works for so long. and when it stops working… lol. just kinda sucks ig.#like every negative trait i was told i have is just reinforced bc duh!!! ding ding ding it’s all making sense ofc ppl don’t wanna talk to u!#i don’t talk enough or make a good effort or i talk too much and make no sense or come off as rude#and either way i’m off putting and it just takes too much effort to be around me#it’s like i make peace with these things and then one fucking thing happens and i’m being slammed back to 15 year old bella mentality again#it’s so exhausting and i’m so tired of being upset that i’m not good at like being a normal functioning fucking person#and ppl try and connect with me but i just give absolutely nothing in return bc i don’t know how to!!!#genuinely like how do ppl just talk to each other? how do you all have friends and make it look so easy and natural#like it’s obviously probably easy and natural bc it’s supposed to be and for some reason i just like… can’t?#okay. whatever#doesn’t matter anyway i’ll go on living#just hate being sad over this. it feels so lame lol.#oscillating between self obsession and self pity every two weeks or so i’m actually so fucking over it hahaha#but it’s cool. i’m cool. rant over 😚#bella complains
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Camping out every night in a tent that for some reason has a GIANT EYE LOGO at the foot of it, which you see every night as you're going to sleep and every morning when you wake up, and also you've spent most of this two week road trip bingeing The Magnus Archives: filed under Things That Could Not Possibly Go Wrong Hahaha What
#the point at which I start to speculate about the real reason I got this very nice tent at a 50% discount lmao#I think I have finally fully caved on the subject of podcasts#wtnv won me over so fully#been listening to a lot of random horror 9 as well#so combining the above with cecil b's perpetual ranting about characters who refuse to recognize they're in a horror movie and. well#hahaha it's fine everything's fine
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welcome back! i hope u have been doing alright. im glad to see ur enjoying idv haha, don't force urself too much if ur not comfortable or liking it !! >.< i would love to play with u but even i lag a lot in the game T_T
Hi anon, and ty for the wb message! I've been doing well now haha (I've been through ups and downs in the past with this game but it's been easier now to deal with), and dw, I'm p much getting back to it.
(ngl I am coming back for a friend and holy shit is there so much?? I missed??? AND THE LORE OTL OTL I MUST RANT ABOUT THE ASHES OF MEMORY WHAT IS THAT CLIFFHANGER ORPHEUS)
Also damn 😔 I've noticed it on my end as well but oh well o7 it is what it is WWWWW, can't do anything about it when the game nukes on like. Certain modes. I thought they'd have it fixed by now tbh
But yeah no anyways like AYO??? NEW LORE????? WHAT IS THIS IDV AND HOW ARE Y'ALL GONNA CONTINUE THIS WHAT IN THE GODS—
Also I am going to rattle myself silly with these survivors HELP I BUTCHERED A BIT OF FREDERICK IN MY FIC OF HIM SOBBING
#✎ . . . 「 𝙏𝙄𝙈𝙀 𝙒𝙄𝙏𝙃 𝘼𝙉 𝙀𝙔𝙀 」 ➠ ❝ hosting: anon ❞#✎ . . . 「 𝘼𝙉𝙊𝙏𝙃𝙀𝙍 𝙇𝙀𝙏𝙏𝙀𝙍 𝙎𝙀𝙉𝙏 ! 」 ➠ ❝ answered ❞#✎ . . . 「 𝙀𝙔𝙀 𝙊𝙁 𝙏𝙃𝙀 𝘽𝙀𝙃𝙊𝙇𝘿𝙀𝙍 」 ➠ ❝ observer speaks ❞#;; istg like I come back#;; after Frederick's essence#;; and also me contemplating on this blog but deciding not to#;; well. change it.#;; AND I SEE THIS?#;; AYO NEW LORE????#;; SINCE WHEN THE HELL DID Y'ALL COME BY AND /HOW/ ARE YOU GONNA LEAVE US RIGHT THERE MISTER ORPHEUS#;; im not over at how they rizzed up the old man LMAO like holy shit hes actually a survivor and involved#;; and i dont mean this in a bad or negative way but i didnt expect this at ALL#;; would actually love to dissect him though#;; very five head fr#;; anyways sorry for the rant on the tags HAOSBSISJ IM GOING THROUGH SM RN WWWWW#;; im gonna go back to playing matches and not being rusty hahaha
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Estou a morrer de riso. A minha mãe levou-me pra ser avaliada com cinco anos, aparentemente para saber se eu deveria saltar anos de escolaridade, e achou isto relevante o suficiente para mencionar no tribunal aquando do acordo de poder paternal.
#num universo paralelo ideal eu saí dali com um diagnóstico concreto e a minha escolar foi totalmente diferente. weird#''ideal'' pk portugal em 2005 não teria feito muito por mim lol#muitos de nós vimos como as crianças com necessidades especiais são ''apoiadas'' no sistema de educação if you know what i mean#also alguém me ajude a perceber o tom desta frase. 'capacidades acima da média' soa positivo mas 'necessidades especiais' soa negativo#não consigo perceber se isto é pra dizer que preciso de apoio ergo mais dinheiro#ou se é pra dizer que preciso de estímulo / desafios ergo mais dinheiro pk me vão pôr numa escola privada e extracurriculares ou assim#regardless isto apanhou-me completamente desprevenida no meio de um documento sobre despesas e pensão de alimentos askdfhsbdkjgfh#also acho que disseram isto à minha mãe e ela imediatamente assumiu que significava que eu nunca teria problemas da mioleira#ou que todos os problemas eram preguiça / minha culpa / etc.. ma'am intelligence is overrated and mental illness is a thing#sorry rant over hahaha#twilit personal
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dsmp/mcytblr had the worst and wildest fucking discourse, but I have to give it to them - people at least tagged it pretty thoroughly, and one could fairly easily avoid most of it.
#I guess I appreciate it now looking back#bc I have always had the view of not posting/engaging in discourse#whether I agreed or not#because getting emotional on the internet#always stresses me out a bunch#so I appreciated when people tagged shit#because once Id read a bit and formed an opinion#I really didn’t want to see the same angry posts#over and over again lmao#I guess this is kinda about the few jr/wi posts ive seen??#but less about the actual debate#and more about how different fandoms obviously operate differently#and it feels wild to have rant posts without tagging as negativity etc#imma delete this later but yeah#wild stuff hahaha
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I spent like a solid 20 minutes just resting there envisioning scenes from the masquerade ball WIP instead of getting up hahaha
slow-mo morning but a nice start
#frillishtxt#specifcally it was the kiss scene and all. scenes that don't happen till later youknow hahaha#I did get up at 7 and thus was awake before that so yknow. all is good. because „before 7“ is the ideal time to get up#(for those who haven't heard me rant about that yet 8am is *the worst* to get up because the day is basically over already)#(so 7 is a good solid time to wake up but any later than that is stretching it and 8am is the worst)
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