#racism extends to every part of the fandom

[casscainmainly]

This is a copy/paste of a reply I did to this post. I'm putting it in its own post because I genuinely need people to understand that saying Duke is unpopular because he's 'new' or unknown only furthers the racism Black characters face in fandom. This extends to the sexism Babs and Steph face, and the double racism/sexism that Cass faces.

For everyone in [this post's] notes saying [Duke's unpopularity in fanfiction] is because Duke is new, that's part of it, but absolving fandom of responsibility is misguided and sweeping both racism and sexism under the rug. The newness argument doesn't explain why Damian has more fics than Cass, Stephanie, and Babs, who all predate him.

More importantly: Jon Kent, who was introduced one year after Duke in 2015, has a total of 3,144 works under 'Jonathan Samuel Kent' and 9,280 works under 'Jon Kent'. That is 12,424 fics - around 5,000 more than Duke, despite debuting at roughly the same time.

The adaptation argument (that the ones who are more adapted are more likely to be written about) is also flawed - Tim has 3 major TV show appearances (The New Batman Adventures, Young Justice, and Titans). He cameos in Superman: The Animated Series, Static Shock, and an episode of Justice League. For films, he appears in two DCAU movies, Batman Unlimited, Gotham by Gaslight, Batman Ninja, and Death in the Family. That's 12 total appearances in film and TV.

By comparison, Barbara has an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to adaptations of her. She appears in 8 animated films, 6 animated Lego films, and has 5 animated film cameos. This is already more adaptations than Tim. Add to that 60s Batman, the Birds of Prey show, Titans, Gotham, DC Super Hero Girls, BTAS, Batman Beyond, Gotham Girls, The Batman, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Young Justice, Beware the Batman, Teen Titans Go!, Harley Quinn, Batman: Caped Crusader, and the live action Batman & Robin, that's 35 total appearances across film and TV.

Barbara Gordon as Batgirl is undeniably more popular to the general public than Tim Drake as Robin, and her film and TV adaptations also outnumber Jason's (13, with 90% of those being pictures of him because he's dead) and Damian's (15). So if she should be more popular than Tim in every supposed metric (longevity, adaptations, even name recognition), you have to ask yourself: why is she less popular in fandom?

To return to Duke Thomas, if you're even a casual Batman fanfic reader you would know that most of his tagged fics are not about him. Duke has 7,042 tagged fics, and of those, 242 works are tagged as Duke Thomas-centric. By contrast, Tim Drake has 62,704 total works, with 3,809 tagged Tim Drake-centric. That means 3.4% of Duke fics are tagged as Duke-centric, whereas 6% of Tim fics - almost twice as much - are Tim-centric. This is not a perfect metric by any means (for example, Dick actually has less than Duke with 2%, though this is due to him having a bonkers amount of fics), but it is illustrative of the trend that literally anyone who's skimmed AO3 could tell you.

More comparisons: Jason Todd (2,990/76,427 = 3.9%), Damian Wayne (1,870/45,635 = 4%), Cassandra Cain (200/17,060 = 1.1%), Barbara Gordon (54/16,729 = 0.3%). Keep in mind not everyone uses the -centric tag, but this is generally useful to see broad trends.

If debut date, adaptations, popularity among the public, amount of canon content, or presence in major Batman events were truly the deciding factor, Barbara would be the second most popular character in fandom (behind Dick). However, she isn't. Even Dick isn't the most popular - Tim, despite his lack of adaptations, is clearly the Batboy centred most in fanfiction and fandom. Therefore, the treatment of Babs, Steph, Cass, and Duke in fandom cannot be attributed purely to lack of knowledge.

Blaming fandom's focus on the White- or White-passing boys on canon is ignoring the signs of racial and gendered biases in the way we latch onto characters. Fandom barely cares about canon - most Titans Tower AUs or family fluff blatantly ignore huge chunks of comics. If we can ignore Gotham War, make up lies about Red Robin (2009), and pretend Tim's allergic to shrimp, why can't we extend that imagination to the POC and female characters? Why are they less worthy of our efforts to make stories about them, whether they have canon/adaptational histories or not?

All this to say, trying to explain away the lack of works for Duke and the girls will not solve anything. Making excuses for the fandom is only perpetuating the racist and sexist erasure of these characters. Instead, read their comics! Here is a list of reading guides for POC characters.

Not interested in comics? Read these Duke fics (compiled by @himejoshiangels)! Also take the time to go through the Barbara Gordon-centric tag and support those creators. Feel free to post any recs of your own as well :).

[messiahzzz]

I agree with you about the increasing hostility of some Wyll fans. I'm not saying that they are not right to feel bitter about Wyll's lack of content from fans and Larian, but some of them are just as toxic as the toxic Astarion fans.

Gale also receives a lot of hate from the wider BG3 fandom, but I was pretty much told that it doesn’t matter because he is like the 4th most popular character. And I had to block the wyllstarion tag due to the hostility of some members of the fandom towards Bloodweave.

I once saw someone say Bladeweave made more sense than Wyllstarion, and they got shut down as being racist. About Bladeweave.

I just don't engage with Wyll or Astarion content anymore, sadly.

i have said this so many times by now, but i’ll repeat it again: people have every right to be upset and criticize larian for their treatment of [insert any character here that isn’t a*tar*on]. no one is stopping you, no one is urging you towards inaction, neither is anyone claiming that racial biases don’t exist in this game. be as bitter as you want, have discussions about race in the d&d universe and how this also extends to wyll. dissect each snippet of wyll’s dialogue, write thorough analyses, and vent about it on your blog to your heart’s content. in that sense: it’s perfectly fine to address the continuous mistreatment other characters face at the same time. don’t be discouraged, this doesn’t take anything away from wyll.

it is about the means of achieving said goal (i.e. more/higher quality content for wyll) that is alienating a big part of the fandom in the process. deeming public pressure and demands directed at the devs an appropriate course of action in an attempt to get wyll the content he very much deserves. which, in the end, is doing more harm than good. it is putting more negative focus on the wyll fandom as a whole, which in turn sadly also affects how other fans engage with said character. the inevitable result being that fans choose to stay in their own small, curated fandom corners and are now even less likely to create new content with him than they were in the first place. this is truly unfortunate. tirelessly perpetuating the “it’s them vs. us” mentality (which i believe is also what you were referring to in your ask) only further discourages fandom from engaging in any sort of discussion around wyll that might actually be worthwhile. this includes discussions about racism, racial bias and stereotypes. basically anything that addresses wyll outside of his romance and his role as a narrative stepping-stone. these dialogs and exchanges are incredibly important, and contrary to what some might believe: not blindly agreeing to every point mentioned doesn’t automatically make you the problem.

i personally believe this whole approach to be effectively counterproductive. it is not “spreading the wyll love”, so to speak. for instance, i highly doubt that demanding a public note app apology from larian will result in them granting wyll’s story the resources & care it deserves. (note: i did notice that wyll’s petition has been edited and the wording/content has been largely adjusted after i made my og post. so several of those goals aren’t listed anymore as of now)

now, this is just my own personal estimate on the situation, mind you. so take it with a grain of salt: i don’t believe petitions like these will actually provide the desired results. there are petitions for almost every npc at this point (one for raphael’s romance included) that have a higher amount of signatures and still remain largely ignored by fandom and larian alike. which i think perfectly illustrates just how much fandom truly cares about these specific issues once direct action and organization are required.

sending larian continuous feedback containing constructive, direct criticism and specific examples with data to back it up is way more likely to get them to notice and actually bring about the changes you want, instead of making nebulous claims that contain half-truths which likely won't ever enter larian's peripheral vision. don’t stop sending in reports even if you don’t get a reply the first few dozen times. provide an overview, tell them what specific scenes and what lines of dialogue need to be changed. yes, i know this is tedious and tiring.

i personally can’t add much on the shipping discourse front. that’s a part of fandom i systematically avoid. i do hope that you’re curating your online experience to your tastes and don’t seek out discourse that actively distresses you. stay safe pls 💕

[nekropsii]

hey bro, what did you see that led you to make that post about misogyny with female characters? Like, was it some posts with hateful comments about them?

Honestly, it's a topic that I get really mad at... Just because I know it has existed, and very much so still exists, despite the fact that a lot of people within the community like to claim that they're extremely Progressive and "above Bigotry". There doesn't necessarily have to be a trigger for me posting about it- it's unsettling how pervasive it is, and it's worth calling out whenever and wherever it's possible to do so, similarly to the Racism problem. It's been a problem for years, and it extends well beyond the scope of just the Homestuck fandom. It's a problem in every fandom that's ever existed, since it's a worldwide systemic issue that has, in many places, been mandated by law and (now known to be junk) science.

This isn't really the place for a lesson on the history of Misogyny, though, and I'm sure you're already aware of that, so let's just get back to the Homestuck discussion.

Absolutely being "that guy" right now, every single woman in Homestuck has been subjected to horrible levels of misogyny by the fans for varying reasons and with various effects. To list a few examples of their main effects on an assortment of characters...

Terezi was very frequently made into a "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" archetype. This was just about the only characterization you could find of her back in the day.

Vriska was and still is shafted with the worst discourse in the history of the world, with people refusing to acknowledge her humanity and pinning her as nothing but an unfeeling, horrifically abusive cunt who does nothing but destroy everything around her. She is the most controversial character, possibly in fandom history, and part of the reason for this intense hatred and backlash is literally because she is a woman.

Kanaya is still regularly reduced to nothing but a Mother Figure. Freudian, but true.

Jade is the most recent target of a full frontal assault of it, with the classic reason of "Getting Between the Hot Gays". This was bolstered by Post Canon, and is one of the reasons why I despise it.

Nepeta was reduced to nothing but her relationship with the men in her life, and given an uncharacteristic level of outright obsession with romance/shipping. Nepeta's entire character was rendered physically incapable of passing the Bechdel Test back in the day.

Jane. I literally do not have to say anything else.

Feferi was and still is unjustly characterized as a coldhearted mega-bitch who will tear you to shreds for acting a single step outside of your "best behavior".

Porrim is still generally reduced to nothing but a sex object. This is extremely fucking ironic to me, and also extremely painful.

Criticism of female characters is, and always will be, significantly more intense than that of male characters. It's a given. Misogyny will always be one of the number one ways people respond to a female character- and while it will manifest in different ways, as I have outlined here, it is genuinely unavoidable. Vriscourse is one of the most well known examples of intense, long-term fandom discourse known to internet history, to the point where people who had never even read the fucking comic would engage in it. Plenty of other male characters do some fucked up shit, some even worse than what she does- and are given much less humanity and reasoning- but they're let off arguably much easier than Vriska is.

I remember back in the day it would be common for people to have their favorite characters be Eridan, and/or Gamzee, and/or Cronus, and then be legitimately violently hateful of Vriska. And I mean violently- it would get downright disturbing. It still does. It was normal to receive death threats for saying you like her, or just drawing her or something- neither of which are signs of "condoning what she did", but people took it as such anyway. There comes a point where you have to ask what the line is, and that "line" is that she activates some fucked up sleeper agent in people's brains that tell them to bring out the fine china that is their own Latent Misogyny. The "line" is that she's a woman. People are okay when male characters hurt or kill people, they're okay when they say or do fucked up things, they're okay when they abuse people... At most, they'll get a light slap on the wrist. But if a female character does the same thing, they'll get absolutely lambasted with the most vile shit you've ever seen in your life from fans. Fans who claim to be "above" Bigotry. Who claim to be Progressive.

And honestly, chances are, that female character doesn't even have to do anything.

[kermit-coded]

i tried to do my research -- no joke, it's been like 5 months of me doing the equivalent of immersion therapy for fandoms -- and i gotta say that while i can understand mcu Bucky fans cuz at least he got that title movie a decade ago, but i do not understand comic Bucky fandom.

but it's more than just Not Understanding, that'd be just one thing, but comic Bucky fans are WEIRD!!!!!!! to put it lightly!

like they're all obsessed with portraying Bucky -- who mind u is the oldest CA cast member since he's the only one who matches Steve's prehistoric age -- as like... a child. like the child of every single person, even ppl 20, 60, 80 years younger than him.....

and not just trying to re-interpret/re-portray him like a child dynamic-wise, but like they have a weird fascination with making him -- again mind u, the only other old ass supersoldier in the cast besides Steve unless u count random sidecharacters -- smaller and childlike and putting him in the "retro" "campy" outfits from the thrice-retconned-over (&hella racist!) oldtimey propaganda comics that were left in the past for good reason (racism)! not just bc theyve been retconned to hell n back

but that's not the weirdest part, actually. on top of all this weird OOC-ness comic Bucky fandom pushing onto the 2nd oldAssMan's dynamics w/ the other characters, & on top of fandom to "de-age" him, they all be doing the opposite for Steve and shipping him w/ Bucky -- who again, mind u are like e/o's only agemates in the cast -- and turn it into a weird d@ds0n shipping thing... even the cis dudes not even into shipping be makin jokes w their fangirl mutuals who do that!!

and not all of it feels like genuine shipping, but ALL of it feels like an extended homophobic joke all the comic fans are making w the character... it feels like a gross p*d*r*sty joke they're all in on, and coming from the outside it, it feels so gross.

Bcuz why tf are they all de-aging and shrinking Bucky down to a little boy but they shipping him with the folks they were just calling the grownups? either w Steve or w Steve's love interests and doing a weird "(step)mommy" joke........... ... It's all headcanons, but it's the SAME ppl doing BOTH of these things... at the same time... ... i checked! you find one and then you find the other! like... thats weird...

even if his comics were worth it -- it's not -- the fandom is weird as hell with the way they portray him, and the difference between that and canon (either comic or mcu canon) be throwing me for a loop bcuz wtf is going on...... it all feels like a creepy inside joke everyone else decided on b4 i walked into the room!

why would you send this to me, a dc comics blog

[princeescaluswords]

Idk if this is appropriate but you're like the most promiment blog calling out racist scott mccall hate I know of and I just need to talk to someone about how weird it is that certain parts of the fandom loves the idea of Derek speaking Spanish (often in conjunction with Stiles speaking Polish) but blatantly ignores or disregards the fact Scott is literally Latino

Also, is Derek speaking Spanish just a headcanon or have I forgotten part of the show?

Derek absolutely spoke Spanish in More Bad Than Good (3x14). He responded to Araya Calavera's interrogation in the language she used. She acknowledges that he speaks many languages. He does it again in 117 (4x02) with Rafael McCall.

One of the things that the production didn't shy away from in Teen Wolf is showing Derek Hale's privilege as a rich white man. Did you notice that? He purchases an entire building and he has his own accounts. He replaces the window on his car that Chris ordered smashed in Pack Mentality (1x03) by Heart Monitor (1x06) while the busted side-view mirror on the McCall family car remains that way throughout Season 1. He never has to work. He speaks many languages, can quote Shakespeare back at Gerard, and can recognize kitsune. His family has status and influence extending from California alphas to South American packs.

It's why I'm always a little bit annoyed and a little bit confused by the tag "Derek Deserves Nice Things." How many more nice things did they want him to have? He has all this privilege already, he survives his terrible decisions, he doesn't face any consequences for ruining Boyd's, Erica's, and Jackson's lives, he gets a smoking-hot bad-ass girlfriend, and he reclaims his mother's legacy of the full shift before he does a heroic walk-off in Smoke & Mirrors (4x12). He has a nice house, a business, a working relationship with the police department, and a charming son in the movie.

There is one thing he didn't get, of course, and that is the source of fandom's discontent: he wasn't the heroic lead protagonist. In different seasons, he was an antagonist, he was a villain, he was the lead protagonist's foil, the lead protagonist's mentor, and he was the lead protagonist's close friend. But Teen Wolf is a bildungsroman and that means it's a story of a child becoming an adult, and that child is Scott McCall.

It reminds me of this quote:

“With fandom the kind of racism that you most commonly see isn’t things like racial slurs and hate speech and white hoods. What you really see is a constant communal prioritization of white people and white characters, even when there are non-white characters in major roles. This is a trend across almost all fandoms.”

— Holly Quinn in Episode 22A of Fansplaining

And Teen Wolf is one of the most blatant examples of this. From an objective viewpoint, Scott McCall is the lead character. Scott is involved in every single plot line from Season 1 to Season 6 -- even when he gets almost completely turned into a plot device, as in 6A, he is involved in the resolution of both major stories. There is no Teen Wolf without Scott.

To the fandom, this cannot be borne. So this is why they dwell on Scott's mistakes like he's Heinrich Himmler. That's why he's stupid, immature, obsessive, stubborn, and a tyrant. That's why "Bad Friend Scott" stories are so damn popular, because the punishment he gets in those stories is the punishment for daring to be the focus of the show. Why the fandom can't seem to separate Scott McCall from his actor until it's convenient for them to do so.

Scott can't be smart even though he does smart things and outwits the villains. Scott irrationally hates Derek or Jackson -- even though Canon Scott hated Derek and Jackson far less than Stiles did -- because that undermines his primary heroic traits. That's why he's sexually obsessed with Allison, even though he repeatedly puts other things ahead of his relationship with Allison. (The fact that these are stereotypes of Latinos escapes their notice.) That's why, to them, the True Alpha story line is either ridiculous, came out of nowhere, or the sinister machinations of another character of color who didn't prioritize white male characters enough.

In Teen Wolf's case, though, the amount of evidence that the show is about Scott as a heroic protagonist is so insurmountable that even they have to be confronted with the racism inherent in their position. That's an uncomfortable position to be in, so they had only one recourse in the end. They turn Scott McCall white. They insist upon it. They'll go so far as to ignore real-world actions and the history of the United States in order to insist upon it. It's neither ignorance nor simple disregard -- it's defensiveness.

[lilithfairen]

While I can't speak for every one of them, I think the big thing that makes RWBY critics so off in how they can support an in-series dictators, abusers and authoritarian types and still call themselves good people outside is that I think they fall into a different category of...activist for lack of a better word.

To me, there's several different types of activist: People who actually want to change or dismantle the oppressors to build a better society, or who want to lift up their fellow oppressed, people who are anti-oppressor for the sake of preserving their own self-image as a good person, but who wouldn't hesitate to throw it away if they think it becomes an inconvenience, or it gets in the way of their selfish desires...and people who only want to "progress" to get into the same club as the oppressor, but not actually changing the system involved.

A lot of the people who act the way they do with RWBY seem to be the kinds of people who fall into the latter categories. They like the IDEA of being against oppressors and evil, but only so long as they can indulge in the same evils and don't have to challenge their own self-image of being a "good person" in the process. They don't see the nuances of a situation so much as they just want to stuff themselves into the "good" category even if their actions and words are the complete opposite of that. Or they just hate being the targets of oppression, but don't actually want to help the oppressed, so much as elevate themselves to become part of the oppressors.

I think this attitude and mindset just bleeds into their views of RWBY, because ultimately a good chunk of the story actively criticizes and questions this mindset, highlights how ultimately these kinds of people are rarely as good as they think they are, and that drives them nuts. They want to call themselves rebels while following authoritarians who will do all the thinking for them, because it's more comfortable to indulge in cruelty when you're not the one responsible for it in your mind.

There's a RWBY character who so perfectly sums up who RWBY "critics" really are when it comes to social issues. A character that RWBY "critics" refuse to acknowledge the true nature of, probably because of how that character mirrors their own appropriation of social issues.

That character would be Adam Taurus.

Adam was happy to be treated like a hero by the White Fang, but in reality, all he cared about was hurting others. The White Fang only mattered to him when they were loyal lackeys, his weapon for hurting others. He didn't care about them, their safety, their lives. He didn't care about other Faunus other than himself or how his actions impacted them. He was happy to sic his followers on other Faunus that he saw as having wronged him in any way.

Just look at how often RWBY "critics" insult the queer fandom of the show, mock queer people who enjoy the show, treat Bumbleby fans like they're idiots, and even insist that RWBY fans don't belong in queer fandom. They insist they want "representation" in RWBY, but dismiss and disparage all of the existing representation while pretending an obvious relationship is nothing—and a great deal of that is spite over the queer relationship existing at all rather than one of the characters giving herself to an opposite-sex character. They don't want Bumbleby to be made explicit, they don't want people to acknowledge May as trans rep, they don't want queer folks to enjoy the representation the show has to offer—they genuinely desire queer folks to be punished for enjoying a show they don't like, because all they really care about is themselves.

That extends into their takes on any other social issues. Adam's a badass dudebro, therefore he must be in the absolute right and the writers derailed him and totally think fighting racism is wrong. Ironwood's the strong man in charge, so all the oppressive authoritarian stuff he does is 100% justified and every trait (explicit or even headcanoned) makes it Morally Wrong for him to be an antagonist. The themes and relevant issues don't matter at all to these people; all they care about, all that fundamentally matters to them, is the character(s) they like. The show not being what they want it to be. The offense of the creators not serving their desires alone.

[wejustvibing]

The anti-Nico anons on have me on tears 😭 Not to extend this conversation but I have to disagree on one part, yes while Nico benefitted from white privilege, as every white driver does against Lewis, I don't really remember he or his older fans being so aggressively and overtly racist towards Lewis. Lewis has always dealt with racial microaggressions but I think most of his older fans will agree that things have escalated in the last couple of years on account of the growing incel fanbase and larry shipper-esque white women. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend Nico by any means but his new era hybrid fans (as one anon aptly puts it) who join the sport obsessed with MV and find their way to Nico/Brocedes are definitely the worse than his older fans. They rewrite the history between them, rewrite Lewis' personality to subject Lewis to constant racial harrassment and now a big Brocedes blog invents outrageous lies to fuel the agenda against Lewis. The only thing I have never begrudged Nico for was that he didn't take direct advantage of the antiblack sentiment against Lewis unlike Alonso, MV etc (the bar is in hell I know) but his newer fans are making sure that even that tiny amount of goodwill towards him evaporates. The way they despise Lewis to such a scary extent while obsessing over Brocedes is such strange behaviour. Lewis is only palatable to them as an extension of some mid white man, they hate him otherwise. We don't talk enough about white/nonblack women and their power in fuelling antiblack agenda in every fandom. Lewis' whole personality is reinvented by them so they can sell a delusional shipping agenda or prop their white racist fav.

let me preface this by saying i have a really limited fandom/standom experience. i've protected my peace like no other ever since i became a fan and would have continued to do the same had AD21 not happened. anyway, the point is, most of my opinions on fans/stans are based on recent observations and discourses i've seen. so, i'm not sure how much weight these older fans you're talking about hold to what anons have been discussing. if they agree with what you're saying then good for them i guess but i don't think i've seen them talking about it which could be a me problem.

but. nico. he has definitely perpetuated ugly narratives against lewis during and after his tenure, leading to microaggressions and overt racism. the covert racism has been apparent too and i don't know if it can be ignored given how to this day his word (based on his speculations especially after his retirement since he's not been in lewis' vicinity in literally years?) is held higher than those who have worked closely with lewis AFTER him. just because what? he's won a title as opposed to lewis' 2? i fail to recount this goodwill that you talk about here. maybe he didn't take direct advantage but he perpetuated that shit and benefited all the same.

and oh boy you're bang on about the fans' need to associate every little thing lewis says or does with a white man to make him palatable and tbh it needs to be studied and called out every single day. hybrid fans are the worst but yeah, this is not just a brocedes issue. just because we don't make a big deal out of it doesn't mean we don't seen it.

because how are they spending all their time excessively fetishislzing and hyper-sexualizing him but the moment they need to use their brain (because they're clearly incapable of treating him as just another human), he's on the highest of pedestals, proscribed of making even the smallest of "wrong" move white men get an easy pass for. he needs to be punished and has karma coming for him god forbid he displays a single emotion his white counterparts are forgiven & even lauded for.

he's their "favorite" till it's time to show him the same empathy these mid white men get for worse things. they love him as long as they get to "consume" and do not have to "accept". the fetishization of his struggles, adversities and grace in the garb of solidarity and brownie points (i guess?) is so dehumanizing.

"i love it when his back is against the wall" ummm no? "look he's still pining for xyz because he has repressed feelings" ummm how about fuck no?

but i digress.

[marley-manson]

Ask game: 3, 24.

Thank you!

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you’ve seen on tumblr

I've been on tumblr since 2014 so this is impossible lol, but the worst take I've seen on Mashblr is probably the take that BJ's antics in episodes like Dear Uncle Abdul, Bottoms Up, Joker is Wild, etc, are theraputic for Hawkeye, ie making him spiral in a safe environment/giving him an excuse to throw a tantrum which is good for him.

It just seems like, well first of all blatantly ott excusing of BJ's mean streak to justify characterizing him as a selfless perfect caretaker whose every action is done for Hawkeye's sake lol, which is just silly. Second of all it ignores like everything about Alan Alda's acting choices in those episodes in which he conveys frustration and exasperation rather than enjoyment. And it's also a horrifying take on therapy imo. Like tbf I usually have issues with characterizing like, interpersonal interactions between romantic partners as theraputic, which is a pretentious way of saying I don't like bdsm fic that frames it as therapy lol, but this also extends to anything else that's done for a character's own good.

I'm not saying it's always like, a bad fucked up mischaracterization of therapy ofc, or that even if it is no one should ever write it, I got no beef with people who enjoy fics like that and I can totally see the h/c appeal even if it wigs me out personally. But this take on BJ and Hawkeye's relationship is probably the most extremely wild and nonsensical example of that trend I've ever seen in any fandom.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

Anything can bring up wildly rancid discourse if you're dedicated enough, I don't think I could possibly narrow this down to just one answer when literally any dumb petty fandom argument from top/bottom wank to ship wars to villaincourse to character popularity contests turns into accusations of any ism under the sun at the drop of a hat.

So just as a general answer: using social justice as a baton in petty fandom slapfights based solely on your favourite thing not being as popular, or other people liking something that you don't like. It's good to call out concrete examples of bigotry in fandom, ie offensive statements people type on their keyboards and post online, but imo it's incredibly transparent when people just default to assuming bigotry on the part of other fans because it's the easiest way to feel superior about your own preferences. I'm talking like, Rey/Finn shippers accusing Finn/Poe shippers of racism, het shippers accusing gay shippers of fetishization, lovers of the sole token female character in a sausage fest show accusing people who got into it for the gay ships and prefer to focus on them of misogyny, etc.

[cassierobinsongf]

hey, how’s it going. I made this side blog when i had 2020 dean winchester induced brain fog (i also literally had a concussion and then post concussion syndrome for months, so brain damage in the realest sense). thinking about dean winchester occasionally still makes me feel things…but lately it’s giving that “i got on mood stabilizers and dont like bts anymore” tweet. still, destiel 4ever obviously. i rarely post on here anymore, but here are some core tenets of this blog:

1. Supernatural is a white supremacist show on every single level.

2. i’m interested in dean in a gender studies way, but also in a rawer more emotional teenage connection way and also i’m a sucker for gritty family drama and kids who had to grow up too fast and every painfully twisted sibling dynamic ever written. i think the groundedness of the undercurrent of very complicated familial abuse and how extremely real that feels is actually the only emotional glue holding the show together.

3. I named this blog after cassie because she was a rare compelling and somewhat humanized woman of color on this show—who was tragically underused and existed in a horrifically racist one off episode, but still in a show riddled with misogynoir and every fucking flavor of racism and misogyny, she stands out to me as someone worth highlighting. plus she had sweet sexy fun bi4bi vibes with dean

4. Ok i’m bored of making this list. Basically i was gonna say as we all know there are lots of delicious concepts in supernatural, but none of them were ever delivered on to their maximum potential or carried through consistently. I guess the interesting conversations to me mostly lie in the wells of potential and the innumerable swing and misses on the show. With that being said, there is absolutely nothing serious about supernatural. To all the creators and everyone involved: you are not serious people.

5. about me: i’m an iranian american dyke in my 20s. i think super online white queer people are typically pretty annoying. i’m not interested in being a part of “spn fandom” this blog was just my own little chronicle of a breakdown and an outlet during an extended hard time. i don’t believe in dnis, but a lot of you are really racist and out of touch and i will not hesitate to block you. ok! now that the annoying people have left, i will say i do love talking to the mutuals and other smarties! feel free to message or reply to a post if you have relevant (good faith) thoughts. you can also find me on my active main blog @dykesaira

6. how could I forget? do not talk to me about actors…i literally do not care…unshackle your minds and stop paying attention to them

7. and of course! Destiel is real. source: it happened to me

8. I’m interested in studying the American Studies element/aesthetics of Americana and the cultural interpreting/mirroring of the show. my posts about how the us military loved the show and how sam and dean operate as cops fall into this category. but so do a lot of my thoughts on the role of music in the show and what the soundtrack SHOULD have been like

[opinated-user]

I think the reason Lily clings to race as a defining feature of personality is because 1. she's racist and 2., she's too prideful to admit that we grow up in a society that has intense social stratification along racial lines and that teaches us stereotypes, biases and misconceptions about groups through media. Most of us unlearn many of these misconceptions as we age and ingest media that is progressive, written by non-white people, or originate outside the mainstream. Many people unlearn their worst biases via university level classes, moving to more diverse areas and having their stereotypes challenged, or simply talking to others of a more varied background online.

Lily has not spoken to others of other backgrounds racially, culturally or religiously. She has not ingested media beyond North American cartoons, the majority of which are aimed at children, and a single sci-fi franchise aimed at all ages. She has very much isolated herself not just via abrasive personality and pushing away every person from a non-white, non-cishetallo, non-culturally Christian background who makes the mistake of saying her work/views aren't perfect, but by closing herself off from every possible source of new perspectives on minorities.

This also extends to her as a media 'critic', though I would consider her a RantTuber, not a critic. Since she gets angry when others disagree with her, even on objective facts like black haircare or the Jewish concept of teshuva existing, she does not watch media critics who disagree with her. This includes a vast swath of people, most notably queer people and BIPOC, who could have educated her on topics and helped expand her understanding of people other than herself.

The only thing she has ever absorbed is tumblr discourse, but only the bits that she agrees with (queer is bad, everyone is secretly a pedophile, be outraged at all times for clicks) and not the parts she disagrees with (historical context for the word queer, the reality that most predators are people close to the abused and posts on how to spot the signs, posts that encourage thinking rather than reactive politics). Through this she learned that whiteness = bad, without ever realizing the real problem is that cishetallo whiteness as default = unacceptable erasure of BIPOC and queer people and othering. She never learned that centering white characters over others is a common form of racism in fandom and it is not exclusive to fans, but something haters can do, too.

So she knows Hunter is bad because he's white. She does not know that focusing on a white male over the female Afrolatina lead is, in and of itself, an act of racism. She doesn't know that jettisoning Finn and Poe, MOC, in favor of her OC is still a net loss and an act of racism - replacing two non-white people with one is still a -1, but that simple math is beyond her. Her writing tips say to have only one cishet white character and ideally only have one of each, but her stories are overwhelmingly white and erase canon POC because while she learned from tumblr to say "diversity is good", she never learned to implement it herself. She is a white woman who refuses to put in the work to connect with the Cherokee Nation because she knows white = bad but has never learned that other cultures and ethnicities have value and should be centered in conversation and paid attention to.

Even if she manages to keep the Ebaratara and Alchorative Sankaku accounts out of the spotlight, even if she can sweep every minor she's been predatory with under the rug, even if she can dodge her own past, and even if her audience doesn't cotton on to her ever-growing ridiculous list of reasons she's the victim/lies manufactured to generate sympathy, she will never be able to retain an audience.

Her audience is maturing while she is not.. They encounter new perspectives, new ideas, more knowledge of how media works, how race functions in society, how media impacts audience, how narratives work, and Lily is not learning any of that. They are getting old enough to understand that centering the white guy you don't like and ignoring the Afrolatina main character is bad. They're mature enough to get that Harley Quinn's show is antisemitic even if you like the show. They're watching shows besides BBT, FG, and kids' cartoons. They're watching movies besides Star Wars and Disney. They're reading.

Lily's audience is outgrowing her. As time goes on, she will lose them entirely, and she does not have anything that will draw in new viewers.

We just have to hope she doesn't do too much damage before then.

they're starting to doing it right now, if her views and sub count is anything to go by.

[aerisleis-fics]

saw this tweet [here] and like immediately it resonated with me and I retweeted it. After I went in the kitchen and started dinner, I found myself puzzling on this tweet and turning it over in my mind over and over and I actually went back and added onto it in a QRT but I wanted to bring it here to talk about more in depth just because it's still sitting on my mind.

At risk of upsetting certain subsets of fandom... though this post isn't JUST about fandom, it's about life in general, tbh.

Not only is discomfort not inherently harm, it can actually be really, really important. It's important to learn to experience discomfort and to manage it. It's also sometimes really important to sit with it and find out WHY it makes you uncomfortable.

Yes, even for children. I'm not advocating for necessarily deliberately inflicting discomfort on people or whatever (in fandom verse that's literally why tagging exists! so people can decide if they want to read it or not!), but experiencing and tolerating a little bit of discomfort is actually really important. For growth. For learning about ourselves and the world around us. For learning to interact well with other people and how to navigate the ever changing world of media and technology and the veritable melting pot of culture that we're exposed to every single day in the modern era, etc. If you are never uncomfortable, you will not grow.

Sometimes someone communicates differently than you do, and that makes you uncomfortable. That doesn't mean their way is wrong. Sometimes discomfort is internalized racism, or transphobia, or homophobia, etc. Sometimes it's wanting something you (think you) can't have. Sometimes it's telling you that in your gut you know you did something wrong, that you've hurt someone, or whatever. Discomfort is sometimes telling you to look in the mirror.

And not always. Sometimes it IS something to be avoided - but thinking about why is important. Learning to experience discomfort, to consider it, and make an informed decision based on what you learn from the process is important.

This extends into the context of the reality that sometimes art in any form - written, visual, audio, animation - any form at all - Isn't MEANT to be comfortable. Sometimes it's really not. Sometimes it's meant to hold up a mirror to the darkest parts of us. Sometimes it's meant to expose the rotten underbelly of society, the dregs of humanity, and show that yes, even these things are still human. It's important to remember that these things are still human, because when you go "only a monster can do that" fascism and genocides can happen, can flourish, even, because we've forgotten that it is indeed our fellow men that do these terrible things.

But even barring that sometimes you're going to be uncomfortable. Sometimes the story/art/whatever isn't for you. And this feeds into the post that goes around sometimes about conflicting needs in safe spaces and that post hammers it out better than I can so I won't get into that in depth, I'll just say - the internet isn't (and fandom isn't), and cannot be, a safe space as a whole. People are too different, we need too many different things.

It's important to know where the discomfort is coming from. And it's also important to learn how to react when you are made uncomfortable by something. Because you will be. The world doesn't always come with trigger warnings. Things will happen. People will be different than you. People WILL make you uncomfortable. Sometimes they're doing something wrong, but sometimes they really aren't.

Learning how to remove yourself from the situation, how to filter the content if that's what you need to do, etcetc. These are incredibly important skills, you'll only gain them by exposure to discomfort. By learning to manage yourself when confronted with something that makes you uncomfortable. Learning how to handle your reaction so it doesn't ruin your entire day is important actually.

To circle this back to media, and fandom just a little, I was given pretty much free reign as a kid. My mom trusted me to come to her with questions I had, and taught me how to handle it if I was uncomfortable with something I ran across. I read some pretty terrible things, I also learned how to let them go, and how to parse my own reaction enough to understand if I needed to close the tab rather than continuing to read.

I think it's a shame that more people clearly haven't gotten that lesson and learned those tools. Learning them is drawing boundaries for yourself, and can help to carve out a safe space. But first, you have to learn that just because you have been made uncomfortable doesn't mean the person who did it is harming you.

Discomfort is good, actually. It's how you grow.

[freakie-deakie]

midnight thought dump

Guys, I have something to confess. I kinda hate kpop now. Not the music, not the art, not the artists - the fans and our ever expanding list of demands.

I include myself in that because, even if the results aren't necessarily my forte, I adore the work that they put in. I have made myself participate in engaging with their content even though I knew they were beginning to produce quantity over quality. Kpop fans have never been the most ethically driven group, but as Kpop grows in popularity, the industry is under more external scrutiny than can reasonably and safely house young developing artists.

I'm not saying I won't engage with Kpop anymore, but I do intend to disengage with the majority of the fandom. Although most of these have always been issues, the extent to which some fans are penalizing artists for their personal grievances is becoming wholly disturbing to me.

Now, I'm going to humor my inner hypocrite and lay out some of my own personal grievances. To reiterate, these are grievances that affect nothing and no one other than myself. I am making them publicly available purely for the record and for individual interpretation and reflection of anyone who happens to read them.

Biased, and in no particular order:

- sexualization and grooming of minors

- judgement passed without due process, and the subsequent execution of an idol's carrier carried out by a rumor

- racism against non-Korean or non-asian idols

- dissection and criticism of every move idols make

- unabashed hatred for JYP, which happens to feed into his gross revenue by the way

- mass production of poor quality media which propagates things like the exploitation of minors who are made to age into fame

- harassment towards artists and their art, and even other fans, based on political agendas

There are many more viable complaints to take up with the fandom. There are also very many reasons to love the fandom. For a time, Kpop fans were an endearing and supportive community, which I contribute largely to BTS and their work around mental health. Even in disagreement, there was always empathy and understanding. I hate to see that become a lost quality.

I could be writing to a dark, digital void. I could be writing to you. I could be writing to myself, years from now. Regardless, at least I have begun to put shape to my thoughts, and I am content with that for now. But if this does find you, no matter how it parts from you, it leaves you with a dusting of my deepest affection and admiration. You are loved and, if you read this mush of nonsense, you are now connected to me and I can confidently extend to you the comfort of never having to walk alone.

[bamf-jaskier]

Hello ! So i know you've talked about racism in the witcher fandom before and i have a question. When reading fics i am struck by the fact that very little fics portray Triss as a woman of color, as she appears in the show and an overwhelming amount portray her as a red head. So my question is this: is it racism or just a general dislike of the show and another sign that fans seem to think that the witcher 3 is the best ?

It’s racism. I am not going to sugarcoat it or say it’s because fans just “prefer” game Triss. They prefer her because of their implicit bias. There is a post about choosing to right in the Netflix Verse but keep Game Triss Here. If there is a fic that is set in the Netflix Verse and uses Jaskier instead of Dandelion, describes Geralt with no beard and as, well, Henry Cavill, and even sometimes, if you are lucky, uses Anya Chalotra as Yennefer but then uses Game Triss? That is making the specific choice to exclude a black character which if most of the fic is set in the Netflix verse, that is a very specific choice rooted in racism, whether on accident or on purpose.

While the game was popular, the fandom didn’t rise-up or become mainstream on Tumblr until the tv show came out. If you want evidence of that, just go look at Tumblr’s 2020 review. They had an entire section for The Witcher, it was #13 on the top 20 things tagged on Tumblr in 2020, Geraskier was the 4th most popular ship out of 100 (Yenralt didn’t even make the list), Jaskier was the 3rd most popular character, Geralt was the 5th, Yennefer was the 24th (yeah there’s a problem here too). 

And if you want even MORE evidence of this, here’s tumblr’s year in review for 2019 JUST for video games, not even overall things or fandom. The Witcher isn’t even in the top 50. It also wasn’t on Tumblr year in review in 2018, 2017, or 2016. Before 2020, The Witcher never made it into these lists, the tv show made the fandom we see now. 

As well let’s look at some of the fanfiction stats from AO3. 11,805 out of 21,208, aka 56% of Witcher fanfiction is explicitly tagged as the Netflix series. However, I know that many fans like to just use The Witcher - All Media Types tag and not the show one (I know I use that) so let’s look at timeline as well. 18,900 out of 21,208, aka 89% of ALL Witcher fanfiction was written after the show was released. Even if you have tried your gosh-darn best to avoid it, the trope and fandom from the Netflix series have seeped into most people’s perception of The Witcher. So again, re-stating my point, using all the Netflix characters in fanfiction BUT Triss, is anti-blackness, plain and simple. 

And a lot of fans online have used the excuse, they aren’t racist, they just don’t think she looks like the character. They say things like “it’s the same thing people said when Daniel Craig was cast as James Bond”...but it’s not. When you say a Black woman doesn’t “look right” for a role you are saying black people have no place in your story. Re-evaluate yourself when you makes those comments and think about the company you are keeping. Because you are keeping company with literal racists who use the same phrases and have the same opinions as you. 

A post about some of the backlash actor’s faced here: 

Here’s an article about the harassment 

Now a Reddit thread about Triss would look better with straight hair

More Reddit 

But “Oh” you say, that’s just specific to Reddit, Tumblr would NEVER be racist. 

Well here’s a fun collection of posts!

An Artist who draws Racist Caricatures of Triss 

A post about how people refuse to talk about fandom racism

How fandom racism isn’t just fiction vs reality

A post about shipping trends being racist (and people harassing OP in the chat)

blank-slate characters and the racial bias they deal with

Specifically a post about Yenralt and Racism (think about those Tumblr ranking while reading this...)

Another post about people refusing to talk about fandom racism

I just gave a few examples but look through the blogs of anyone whose been talking about fandom racism and you will see so many posts and examples. 

The Witcher fandom has a racism problem. It’s not just Yennefer or shipping Yenralt. It extends to how the fandom treats Netflix Triss as I have talked about here, it extends to how there’s practically no content or more specifically, engagement for characters of color. It’s about how the fandom keeps pushing POC out to the point where people I love are leaving the fandom because they aren’t welcome here. 

If you aren’t willing to listen to POC when they tell you something is racist, when they tell you something is wrong. Fuck off. 

I encourage everyone if they haven’t to read the article Who Actually Gets to “Escape” Into Fandom?

[hollow-dweller]

on the AO3 elections, misinformation, and fandom racism

i hate the way misinformation and disinterpretation function online, and especially in fandom spaces, because if something gets large and abstract enough, there's no way to functionally dispute it.

the Tiffany G situation is a perfect example. they never said they wanted to ban works from AO3, in fact when asked directly they said they did not want to do that. they did not say that AO3 hosted illegal materials or CSAM, only that people think AO3 does, which is true (hence why we can't ever get away from this stupid fucking anti vs proship war). they did not say anything about wanting to make AO3 monetizable or "presentable"--only to clarify what is and is not hosted on AO3, and highlight the work done by other organizations under the OTW.

the full transcript is available here, and i encourage reading through this thread to see further analysis of their comments with a more generous interpretive lens. i also HIGHLY reccomend looking through the comments on their bio post for a great discussion from user Bread about how fandom norms in China versus USA/english-speaking fandom may be contributing to the lack of clarity around their points, and how YES, cultural context and language barriers actually matter a great deal when discussing these matters!!

but now that the reaction has outgrown the initial incident, TG's comments have been extrapolated and warped and used as fuel for a greater cultural war. the criticism has gone from "i see some red flags in their ideas" (a fair reaction, and at least deserving of greater investigation) to "they are a pro-censorship chinese sleeper agent who wants to literally endanger chinese fans' lives and scrub all queer content from AO3".

and what a lot of people gloss over is that racism and sinophobia are now a fundamental part of the narrative. even if you do not literally believe they are a government spy, if you take it at face value that their comments were "pro-censorship", you are buying into a racist mischaracterization of their words. you have already lost the plot, because the fundamental reading of their comments and position has been taken in the worst faith possible, and that lack of grace is something that fans of colour experience disproportionately in fandom compared to white fans, as has been pointed out many, many times by fans of colour here on Tumblr. Writer and media analyst Stitch has also thoroughly discussed this on their website, as a starting point if you are unfamiliar.

so now every post that even vaguely touches on this controversy has this wealth of history behind it, and the vaguer and more abstract they get, the more they obfuscate the very real influence racism and sinophobia have had on this entire incident. posts get spread by people who know nothing about the initial incident, and if they ask, you see people providing them not with a summary of TG's actual comments, but the bad faith mischaracterizations of their comments that have spread so rapidly. and trying to clarify TG's comments and the racialized nature of the backlash means that you get assigned a position in a broader fandom war that is a) functionally meaningless and b) largely irrelevant to the problem at hand (watch this excellent video from Princess Weekes for a thorough analysis of the pro-ship vs anti discourse and its relationship to racism).

if fandom is a community, that means we have obligations to one another, and that means extending grace and compassion to all fans. it means taking a moment to actually examine what ideas are being spread in our spaces, and examining whether they are rooted in harmful rhetoric. it means being willing to bridge cultural and racial gaps in fandom, and it is on white fandom to do that work.

white supremacy is a real and immediate threat to our fandom spaces. if you believe in the power of fandom to foster community, artistic freedom, and collective joy, then there is no fandom without fans of colour.

[accidental-host]

New discourse video dropped, and I’m responding to it.

Discourse: Looking into A Cookie Run Deep Dive

This is going to get heated because this video was BAD

• For context:

A Cookie Run Deep Dive is an hour long video essay made by Callimara. From what I can see on her page, she has never done a cookie run video before now, and mainly posts videos about the game Yandere Simulator.

I was told to watch this video in an ask from a follower, and wanted to write a full response to it because there was A Lot going on. So here we are.

• The first part:

For the sake of trying to make this as concise as possible, I won’t even address the first 40 minutes of the video.

I don’t have shit to say about it, the video is titled “Deep Dive” but for two thirds of the video she only goes over the absolute most basic game history and aspects of the lore that you could’ve gotten off Wikipedia, and it’s about as riveting as watching paint dry. The fandom drama related points only start after about the 40 minute mark.

• The rest:

As for the last 20 minutes of the video, it shifts to being about fandom drama. Because every youtuber on earth wants a slice of this Views Pie, creators who have never previously engaged in the fandom feel the need to jump on the bandwagon of saying everything wrong with a community that most of them aren’t even in. Great start!

The discourse opinions are primarily about exactly what you’d expect, which is racial/ethnical coding and whitewashing. So let’s see what bold new opinions Callimara is bringing to the table.

An important thing to note, she REFUSES to take a stance for an uncomfortably long period of time. Not condemning or condoning anything, it takes multiple minutes of dancing around the topic before she dares to even imply that the racism in this fandom is actually a bad thing. Agonizing.

• Point 1: Coding

When she does take a hard stance, it begins well. She states that some characters have obvious coding to a specific race/ethnicity, which is extremely true. Naming characters like Scorpion, Rye, Kumiho, Earl Grey, etc. as characters that fit into this category. [48:01]

And I agree with this of course, I think some characters are coded to a specific race or ethnicity.

She stated whitewashing these characters or erasing their ethnicities would be wrong, and thank fucking god she came to this point at least, because anything good ends there.

• Point 2: The “Default” Color

Her second point is where things go downhill.

When it comes to cookie run characters, primarily old Ovenbreak and Line characters, there is a default skin/dough tone. A tan brown, #DC934C, we’ve all seen it and it’s included in tons of characters. But Calli changes her stance on whitewashing completely when it comes to these characters, treating them as if they’re wildly different than any other.

She refers to these characters as this:

“The more fantasy stock-standard types, like the princess, the knight, the adventurer, and the goth chick” [49:48]

And she uses this as her reasoning for why she thinks whitewashing these characters is fine, which she says explicitly later on where I will quote her again.

This point falls apart immediately when you do not treat these characters any differently. Yes, a lot of characters have the same skin tone. But is not an inhuman color, there is no reason for you to look at one of these characters and believe that shouldn’t be their skin tone. Why would it be any different just because multiple characters have the same color?

She follows this up even worse, stating this:

“My take is that they would have the complexion of an average Korean person” [50:16]

This feels INCREDIBLY unnecessary. There is no reason for them to not have a midtone skin color, there is no reason for their dough color to not be how they look at a human. And there is no reason for her stance on other characters to not extend to these.

Immediately after that point, she almost goes back on her own word stating that Korean people can be any color. Which is obviously true, but this feels like such a useless point to make then.

Her point makes no fucking sense, first she says they would have the completion of “an average korean person” and then says korean people can be pretty much any skin tone and still be korean, so what the fuck is she even trying to say? What is the purpose of this then? I am so genuinely lost at what the point of even saying this was if she would just dance around it going back on her own word, so we’ve ended the statement with net zero information gained.

Now, this is where she explicitly defends whitewashing. She goes on later in the video to state these characters should be able to be drawn however the artist decides, and says this:

“People that who draw these specific cookies with default dough as fair are also valid.” [52:02]

Which is the biggest pile of horse shit that came out of this video.

If the default skin tone was pale, this would not be a topic of debate. Nobody would make points like this, nobody would say it’s up for interpretation. But apparently, most of the cast being midtone is just too difficult to accept.

It’s funny how as soon as it comes to brown characters, it’s suddenly “ambiguous.” Most cookie run characters are midtone, what is the problem with that? Why would that not be able to be canon? Why would that have any reason NOT to be correct? Would you make this same point if the default color was something pale?

This comes down to her trying to decide what characters are “coded enough” to where whitewashing them is bad, and what characters AREN’T “coded enough” which makes whitewashing fine. Which is a completely unnecessary distinction.

There is no reason for them to be separated into categories like this, and there is no reason to decide that too many characters are midtone so it’s actually just ambiguous. I have never seen this specific take on the whitewashing discourse before, and it is dumb as hell.

And now, for a quotes speed round. Because some of these are awful.

• Addressing more direct quotes

“If a cookie is given a default skin color, then clearly their complexion isn’t of much consequence to their overall design” [52:47]

Why have you decided that the “default” skin tone is inherently less valid than the more character-specific ones just because it appears more often?

————༻—༺————

"And I feel like it's also important to remember that when we glorify one thing and disavow another thing, what we're doing is creating a new beauty standard that people will continue to change themselves in order to fit into instead of encouraging them to be happy with the way they are." [53:02]

What the fuck does this mean in this context?? Literally how much of a goddamn scumbag do you have to be to say that it’s GLORIFYING to depict most of the cast as midtone, and think that somehow this would change the entire beauty standard. Genuinely have no idea what the fuck is going through her head with this.

————༻—༺————

“I would argue the fact that they’re human at all makes them different from how the original characters look. That’s like saying this fan art of human Nick Wilde and Judy Hopps from Zootopia are whitewashed, because Nick had red fur and Judy had grey fur” [53:30]

You used Adventurer as an example as one of the characters that it’s okay to whitewash. He looks like a human. When drawing literal fucking animals with fur as humans instead, obviously you would have to change the color.

Adventurer does not have an inhuman skin tone. So if you were to make him lighter, that would be a conscious choice because you didn’t like the fact that he had darker skin. And that is fucking racism. This isn’t difficult, you’ve juts decided that the default cookie run dough color isn’t a valid enough skin tone already.

————༻—༺————

“Taking people’s hard work and coloring over them and then claiming that you fixed it is never okay” [54:47]

(For those who aren’t aware, this is referring to the specific way people will edit whitewashed/racist fan art to make it no longer whitewashed or racist. This has been something people have done for years.)

Why do you value someone’s drawing over POC representation? Why do you think making sure not to hurt poor sad little artist feelings is more important than making brown people feel welcomed? She then goes on to repeat the exact same sentence like three times.

————༻—༺————

"How would you feel if you baked a cake and someone else took the cake and put sprinkles on it and claimed that it's now superior" [55:44]

This is not a case of stupid little art theft!! This is about racism!! The dumbest most watered down fucking analogy possible, and it doesn’t even apply. This is not about art theft, this is about representation, but we can all very clearly see where your priorities lie and it’s incredibly telling.

————༻—༺————

“It has gotten so bad that even devsisters have come out and tweeted about it, telling people to stop attacking artists for making fan art because they’re all great” [57:37]

First, genuinely fuck you if you’re using devsisters tweets as your moral standpoint for what’s okay and what’s not. Second, if your art is perpetuating existing racism and colorism in the world, it is not great. It’s fucking garbage and deserves to be treated as such, because I think the feelings of people of color in this fandom are more important than little drawings.

————༻—༺————

“Would you rather just people stop making fan art because they’re so afraid of all the backlash if the cookies are drawn too pale?” [58:22]

Actually yeah, I think if all whitewashing racist fan artists stopped making whitewashed racist fan art, so only the stuff that isn’t racist remains, the fandom would be instantly and immensely improved. It would be a Christmas fucking miracle. Genuine dream come true. Best case scenario.

• In conclusion

This video is a train wreck. I don’t even want to encourage anyone to watch it, it’s 40 straight minutes of being told a fucking history lesson of the most basic surface-level information so agonizingly slowly I had to put the video in 1.25 speed, and then immediately followed by some dogshit opinions and then the outtro.

This is a mess, I’m going back to playing fucking minecraft because I spent way too long writing this. Thank you for reading, glad you made it this far, etc etc

[enochianribs]

I'm not a very eloquent speaker and I am terrible at organizing my thoughts so I hope this makes sense. Some people may have missed out on the extensive discussion we had as a fandom a year ago(?). But also, this discussion is relevant at all times for every form of media, and its particularly relevant again, so:

Sensitivity Readers are Important. If you are going to write on a topic that you do not know much about but are learning about or exploring, you should probably have one. On the same hand, I feel like it's important to only be gratuitous with real world issues in your own story telling if said issues are something that you personally experience and could speak on from experience, even if they're included in the original content. For example, gay people writing about homophobia in any degree is something they have a right to explore in their art and self expression because it can be/is a lived experience. But as white people we 1) shouldn't leave out people of color because that is a form of racism in and of itself (that's where common sense and sensitivity readers are important- to make sure we portray other demographics respectfully) and 2) we shouldn't be telling stories about people of color's adversity in regards to racism or xenophobia. Specifically writing in bigotry that was not essential and also DOESN'T affect us is not our place. It is not our story to tell. If you feel, for whatever reason it is important to include in your piece, ask why you feel like it's your part to narrate it, if its from a well meaning place, and then find a sensitivity reader that volunteers to screen writing for things like that so that you do not overstep and/or contribute to the problem.

It's about marginalized voices speaking out about their experiences because they have a right to. It extends to race, gender, sexuality, religion etc.

This is why I personally do not mind people writing transphobia into their stories if they are trans themselves, but when cis people do it its often very uncomfortable, shallow or incorrect. Cis people can include trans people! Absolutely! We exist! It's just a good idea to check with a sensitivity reader to make sure you haven't written/created something harmful.

This basic concept applies to many things and of course, there will always be levels of nuance to every situation. But at the end of the day we have to stop, learn, choose to be better and then do better, and this is a process with no end. There is no point where you stop and go 'I've learned enough'.