#purity culture has a very specific cultural meaning. i just dont think its something that prominent in the series

[the-owl-tree]

Spottedleaf as an idealized romantic figure but also her parallel with Leafpool, and how she's painted by the narrative as being more 'noble' because she didn't act on her attraction, showcasing the themes of purity culture in the series.....

I don't know if purity culture is the best term to utilize for this discussion, as Spottedleaf's case is more akin to her being a nun and taking a vow of chastity rather than it being a cultural issue of ascribing purity to all women and shaming them from premarital sex, shameful behaviors such as not dressing modestly, and so on. That's really not the case with what's going on with these cats.

I also think Spottedleaf's Heart kind of sheds light on how the authors, or at least Holmes in particular, see and write Spottedleaf: she loves foolishly. Her love for Firestar is considered foolish and she doesn't exactly hide that she's pining for him in later books. She's the tragic "what could have been" love interest, Firestar's connection to the afterlife and a tragedy for him alone.

I don't really buy that purity culture is actually that big of a theme in these books. You could maybe argue that Leafpool's story contains like, idk, traces of it ideologically, but I think as trend in the series, you would need to sell me more on it.

[firelxdykatara]

not gonna lie I would love to hear more about the drama and infighting that went on in The Vampire Diaries fandom if you have the time (and also want to use that time to give your experience with the fandom, which from the snippets you've told sounds Not Fun so I get it if you don't want to lol)

oh god, there was like, SO MUCH, i just

i really feel like tvd is one of those fandoms that is so hard to describe without a lot of ‘you’d have to have been there’, but it really felt like this huge and all-consuming beast for about five years until the show finally imploded and the fandom basically turned on it en masse. (you ever see that post going around that’s like ‘if you ever want to know what true regret feels like, ask someone who once called tvd their favorite show’? still a mood, all these years later. basically the entire fandom thought the show should have just bowed out with whatever shreds of dignity it had left at the end of season 6, and became more of a hatedom than a fandom for the last two seasons. when you have an entire fandom cheering news of your show’s cancellation, i think that’s a sign you done fucked up, julie.)

first and most infamous, of course, are the ship wars. which are pretty much inevitable in any teen-centered drama, and i really think the CW fucking thrives on them, but it was particularly egregious in TVD’s case because not only was the base premise of the show a love triangle, but the two main romantic leads were brothers that the show constantly pit against one another--in pursuit of elena’s affections, but also because it kept up this insistence on the ‘good brother/bad brother’ dichotomy which stopped making sense after about season 2 (by which time we have found out that the good brother was never as good as he appeared, and the bad brother has been growing and isn’t nearly as bad as he pretends to be)--and the question of which brother ‘deserved’ elena (and no, what elena wanted very rarely factored into these discussions, especially in the team stefan camp because they turned on her when what she wanted was no longer The Good Brother, but i’ll get to that in a bit) was hotly contested.

i’m not kidding when i say the shipping wars were vicious. i started watching tvd shortly after it began to air, which was late 2009, and kept up with it fairly sporadically over the years. i didn’t come onto tumblr until 2011/2012, and by then, the fandom was already pretty much a garbagefire. there were anti ship and anti character blogs, any time something bad happened for one ship the rival ship would invade the tags to gloat about it (seasons 3 and 4 were especially rough, and i’m not gonna pretend delena fans weren’t just as bad about tag invasion and shit, but as that was my side of the road i saw a lot more of the stelena shippers being assholes, which soured my opinion on the ship a long time before i started rewatching and realized the red flags were there from the start), confessions blogs were popular also toxic as fuck (so much fighting happened in the notes of those posts, good gods), and this was right around when twitter’s popularity was on the rise and the line between Celebrity and Fan was thinning, so the fandom was absolutely atrocious to much of the tvd cast and crew.

(some of them deserved a lot of the later backlash, but in the early years a lot of it was ‘how dare you write the story in a way i dont like, you terrible fucking person’, and gods don’t get me started on the dobsley vs nian Thing)

i think what really encapsulates my feelings on the tvd fandom as a whole, though, is the way they (to this DAY) treated elena gilbert, which can be summed up in one meme that gained a lot of traction around season 3 if i remember right: that gif of pam from true blood, with the text altered to read “i’m so OVER elena and her precious doppelganger vagina!”

i swear at one time i had over half the active tvd fan accounts on tumblr blocked, because i got to a point where i would no longer tolerate elena hate, and she was (and still is, in what remains of the fandom; you’ll see a lot of ‘elena was one of the worst things about the show’ takes from ex-fans, too) one of the most widely despised characters in the entire fandom. because she -checks smudged writing on hand- was a traumatized teenage girl who -reads off a crumpled notecard- couldn’t always perfectly sort out her own feelings and -squints at the ceiling- sometimes made mistakes or bad decisions. (except a lot of the fandom also insisted that she was a mary sue who had no character traits or flaws or faults and it was like....make up your fucking minds???? is she a calculating conniving bitch whose somehow manipulating these centuries old vampires to tie them around her little finger or is she a boring flat character with no depth and no flaws??? jfc)

there was this massive double standard, too--like, stefan and damon could fuck whoever they wanted and that was fine, but elena was constantly raked over the coals for the crime of developing romantic feelings for the two men who had become constants in her life and whom she cared for deeply, and oh my GOD the slut shaming that happened when elena slept with damon was fucking wild. (and also happened in canon lmfao. like the show had one of elena’s best friends basically call her diseased on screen for falling in love with someone other than stefan. it was gross and ridiculous and the friend in question was also being a giant hypocrite at the time since she was happily flirting with someone who was directly responsible for the deaths of like four of elena’s loved ones and her own boyfriend’s mother but that’s beside the point) but like elena was called a slut and a bitch and a whore for ‘cheating’ on stefan (she hadn’t, and she had in fact broken up with him on screen the episode earlier) and ‘immediately’ jumping into bed with damon, even though none of them said fucking boo when stefan had one night stands or damon had fuckbuddies or whatever.

shit, caroline didn’t get any of this treatment when she started falling for tyler while dating matt! which isn’t to say i think she should have, just that i think it’s fucking ridiculous that elena was absolutely demonized by the fandom for daring to have feelings for two guys at once and eventually acting on them--despite the fact that the entire premise of the show was a love triangle. it’s not a love triangle if both sides don’t eventually get explored, and the crew had been pretty explicit about the fact that delena was going to happen at some point--but when it did, a huge chunk of the fandom absolutely threw a fit.

and a lot of these elena haters were alleged stelena stans, and i say alleged because they hated her so much for not wanting stefan’s dick anymore that it was clear they were really stefan stans and only wanted stelena to be endgame because they wanted stefan to ‘win’ at the end of the day, because ‘he’s the good brother’ so he deserved elena more.

it was all very gross and very misogynistic and very sex shaming (apparently delena was a ‘shallow’ and ‘superficial’ relationship because they had sex after two years of unrequited feelings slowly becoming requited and then pining for ages on both sides, and because they had a lot of on screen chemistry that the show capitalized on for years so of course they did a lot of making out and shit but it’s not like stelena didn’t have its fair share of making out and sex scenes, stefan was just too much of a coward to let elena top i’d apologize for that joke but i’m really not sorry because it’s true), and when i say it was egged on by the crew, that’s because they refused to let the love triangle die back in season 4 when it should have.

they insisted on stringing stelena fans along, dropping little bread crumbs to keep them invested, like dreams of a future where they were married and revealing that stefan was also a doppelganger and he and elena were descended from a pair of star-crossed lovers (a plot that ultimately went nowhere, to no one’s great surprise), and then fucking like. julie plec turned around and threw nina under the bus after she chose not to extend her contract and pretended that stelena might have happened again if she hadn’t left the show, which....i mean frankly i wouldn’t put it past her, but it would have been shitty writing. then again, she thought having a vampire pregnancy where a uterus was magically transplanted from a witch into a vampire that could somehow......carry the babies to term.... made sense and was a good way to accomodate candice’s RL pregnancy rather than like literally ANYTHING else, soooooo. but anyway julie saying that around like, end of s6 sparked off a new wave of nina hate and elena hate and ship wars bc they SEers took it as ‘confirmation’ that stelena was REALLY meant to be endgame and it was all just a hot fucking mess

another thing is that, while tvd was in its prime before the anti/purity culture shit started picking up any real steam, there was still this pervasive attitude throughout the fandom that if you liked Damon, you were A Bad Person. liking damon was apparently grounds for insults and harassment, and apparently he was The Worst Person on the Show even though literally nothing he does on screen is any worse than shit we know stefan has done (and frankly every other vampire too, but i mention stefan specifically because he was always held up--in the show but especially in the fandom--as the Good Brother while damon was the Bad One, and if you liked damon more then that had to mean your morals were dodgy and you clearly couldn’t appreciate what a heroic and saintly figure dear stefan was and....oops, i’m sorry, my salt keeps leaking -cough-).

meanwhile klaus quickly became a fandom darling despite not even really having much of a redemption arc (on tvd anyway, he just became more ‘affably evil’ as the show went on and more inclined to work with the main characters rather than try to kill them; i have no idea what went on over on his show, though), and like i can 100% appreciate liking villains and not caring that they do dodgy villainous shit, even just liking them bc they’re hot and wanting them to kiss a main character bc they have insanely good chemistry (yes i ship klaroline, no i won’t apologize for it, they could have been Really Great), it’s just really the double standard that gets me.

and all of this, incidentally, required ignoring some truly gross shit stefan was responsible for wrt his relationship with elena, that frankly it has always bothered me never really got addressed in the show. i get why elena herself would never be able to actually call him on it, but the fact is that he stalked her for months after he first saw her and thought she was katherine (meanwhile it only took damon .5 seconds to realize she was someone else entirely, but that’s another topic entirely), and then he deliberately inserted himself into her life because, in his words, ‘i have to know her’. he never gave a thought to how his presence in her life might affect her (or rather, he did, and tormented himself about it in his internal monologue, but never let this actually dissuade him from disrupting her life), and elena would wind up blaming herself for every tragedy that befell her friends and loved ones as a result of getting mixed up in vampire bullshit even though none of it was her fault--she literally blamed herself for existing but most of the fandom didn’t give a fuck about that lmfao--and stefan did shit like find out that she was adopted and then withhold this information from her until she got pissed about another secret he was keeping (her resemblence to katherine) and drop it on her to try and distract her from her very reasonable anger, and like... i should stop before this becomes a whole rant about how much i hate stefan fucking salvatore, but the point is, he did a lot of really sketchy shit he never answered for and elena never really took him to task for, and the fandom just kept eating up his insistence that he was the Good Brother and therefore he deserved to have elena, and if she didn’t want him anymore it was because she was a heinous bitch who didn’t deserve him.

uh.....i think i got off track there. and there’s probably a lot of shit i missed, like i think i was incandescent with rage for most of seasons 5 and 6 so i missed a lot of the interfandom shit cause i was too busy being increasingly pissed off at the show itself, but if nothing else this should give you an idea of how much of a goddamn cesspit the fandom was while the show as in its prime. there’s a reason both the show and the fandom have such a lousy reputation lmfao.

[creampievampire]

Could you go into the difference between the subtext and queerbaiting in it, I'm still kind of -well it's obviously gay but nothing was really ever said or shown that says that expect for people talking about it- Like are the characters and their relationship just queer-coded (positivly ofc lol) but the baitiness comes from them sort of confirming it off the show?

of course! im assuming by ‘it’ you mean merlin, but rather than explaining the reasons why i think bbc merlin is a matter of subtext (or queer coding) and not queerbaiting, i think it would be easier and more productive to explain the difference between the two in general. they are very similar - which is why i think a lot of people are unable to tell the difference between them - but they have important differences

just a warning, this is going to be a LONG post lmao ive bolded exactly what each term means below, after which i go into more detail on the whole issue. this is something im passionate about so,,, ♥

queerbaiting specifically refers to a marketing technique in which creators hint at but dont actually depict a queer character or relationship. They do this in order to attract a queer audience with the suggestion of a character or relationship they can relate to, while also avoiding alienating their queerphobic audiences

queer coding is the subtextual coding of a character as queer through the use of things like metaphor, allegory, hinting, recognisable traits/stereotypes/experiences, etc. This is done to build believable characters and create more complex plot lines, and it is also regularly used by people who want to tell queer stories but are unable to do so explicitly. it CAN be used negatively to enforce damaging stereotypes, but that is just a small part of its usage

both of these things utilise subtext in order to work. subtext is not only a crucial part of the creation of any piece of media, but is impossible to avoid.

an example of the most basic types of subtext is when a character tells someone that everything is going to be okay, but you can tell they dont believe it. or when youre watching a story unfold and you suddenly connect the dots and realise whats going to happen before its explicitly stated - you used subtext and the hidden meanings and hints to figure it out!

the people involved w a piece of media create their story with a specific purpose or meaning in mind, and they construct the subtext of the story to reflect that purpose/meaning. HOWEVER, the viewers dont always see things the same!

your experiences and personality shape the way you view and interpret every piece of media you consume. if you hate cops youll see the insidious undertones in cop shows - if you grew up with an abusive parent youll see the biting implications in a characters dialogue that others find innocent - if youre queer you will search for and fine queer characters everywhere, regardless of the creators intentions

now, both queerbaiting and queer coding use subtext to function, right? so how do you know which is being used and whether or not its a bad thing? its all about intention

to give a specific explanation of the difference im going to use two examples that are (arguably) very similar in the way their queer characters became canon

example 1: adventure time featured the characters marceline and princess bubblegum, who have been forever depicted as a couple in fan content. their interactions in the show were read into and latched onto bc we saw ourselves in them and we saw it as positive queer rep. but their relationship was never explicitly discussed during the course of the show and was only confirmed at the end of the final episode.

that makes 10 seasons in which their relationship existed only in subtext, and when it did finally exist in canon it was only for a few minutes, if that.

example 2: supernatural featured the characters dean and castiel (lol) who have been depicted as a queer couple pretty much since the first episode cas appeared in. i personally hung on their every interaction, analysed every glance between them, bc i interpreted deans character as a parallel to my own childhood trauma.

cas joined the show in season 4, so that makes 11 seasons in which him being gay existed only in subtext, and when it was confirmed he was immediately cut out of the show. the exact nature of dean and castiels relationship still remains in subtext.

so why is it that adventure time is widely considered perfectly fine but supernatural is dunked on as being the poster boy for queerbaiting?

its bc adventure time involved queer creators and was an earnest representation of queer characters, but they were boxed in by their publisher, Cartoon Network and thus the only way for the relationship to exist in the show was through subtext.

supernatural, however, consistently neglected their queer character and employed transparent tropes and stereotypes - bringing him in just sparingly enough to keep queer audiences interested while never being gay enough to alienate their macho manly man queerphobe audiences. they would have dean and cas stare into each other eyes for a full 30 seconds and then almost immediately follow it up with an episode about dean banging a disposable female character.

so imho adventure time falls under queer subtext, and supernatural falls under queerbaiting

when it comes to a show like bbc merlin i see a lot of debate about whether or not its queer coding or queerbaiting, and my intention is not to convince you of either. merlin was very much a product of its time, and i have argued the same about seasons 4-6 of supernatural as well, before the queerbaiting escalated and became exhausting to me

the purpose of this post is to start giving you the information you need to analyse any piece of media and come to your OWN opinion as to whether or not its queerbaiting or whatever else

people will ALWAYS have differing opinions about this shit yall. i have debated so many times w so many people about where the line is and whats okay and what should be ‘cancelled’ and if consuming something deemed problematic makes you a bad person or not

and my conclusion?

if youre capable of acknowledging the flaws and issues w a piece of media without trying to defend it as a shining beacon of purity simply bc you like it, then you do you. enjoy whatever you want to enjoy - if i think its reprehensible i simply will never interact with you lol

at some point everyone has to stop regurgitating these generic woke speak cancel culture speeches and buzzwords and formulate their own opinions

my advice to anyone reading this is to learn how to do close reading (ill provide a link to a wonderful short guide on it in a reblog bc tumblr hates links) and start really considering where you draw the lines with all types of content. decide for yourself whether merlin or supernatural or adventure time crosses the line into content you cant stomach, but respect other people whose interpretations differ from yours

i know a HUGE amount of people think supernaturals confession scene was homophobic and toxic - a slap in the face - but when i watched it i saw myself reflected in dean. a repressed bisexual whose emotions had been stunted by lifelong trauma, who wasnt ready to face his feelings for cas but quickly realising that his chronic avoidance and fear was about to tear them apart possibly forever. to me it was tragic and beautiful, and i loved it

i also think merlin is a tragic and beautiful love story, and to me its a pivotal piece of queer media that changed the way i viewed love and made me believe that it was a possibility for me bc i related so deeply to arthur

i hope that you can draw a satisfying answer from this, anon, and i apologise for this post being a full essay lol but i believe it needed to be said  - i dont think there is a right or wrong answer here

[where-theres-smoak-2]

JATP Analysis/Theory: Alex and Carrie

I know I need to stop but I am having way too much fun overanalysing this show. Besides I promised you all a Alex and Carrie post so here it is. So my newest theory is kind of to do with the phantoms unfinished business. All through out season 1 there has been this theme of connection, Julie’s connection to the boys, their connection to Julie’s mum, Julie’s connection to her mum, Luke’s connection to his parents etc. We also know that the phantoms have some burnt bridges, with their parents and with Bobby. Julie too also has a broken bridge between her and Carrie. I think their unfinished business is to mend all of those broken relationships and reconnect with everyone. This is where I think Alex and Carrie come in. 

I think that Alex and Carrie are going to be really important in reconnecting everyone and here is why I think that. I think you can draw alot of parallels between Alex and Carrie and I think the show producers have created these parallels because they want us to connect Alex and Carrie.

The first parallell is something I have spoken about before and I think it’s talked about alot in the fandom, but many of the characters in the show have a colour connected to them Alex and Carrie both have the same colour connected to them, pink. 

In fact its very rare to see either of these characters not wearing pink, it happens occassionally but not very often. This is interesting considering on the surface these are very different characters. 

 But the colour pink had a lot of symbolism around it and even more interesting than that, different shades of pink have different meanings. Pink is made up from two colours, Red and White. Red symbolises, passion, energy, power and sometimes agression. White symbolises purtiy, morality and innocence. Obviously these are two contradicting colours but when you put them together the passion of red is softened by the purity of the white creating a calming, romantic and gentle loving colour. The more red in the pink the more energetic the colour.  

Alex wears alot of light pink. Light pink is a much softer and calmer colour than the brighter pink that Carrie is often seen in. And that fits their individual personalities, Alex is a much calmer and softer person whereas Carrie is more engergetic and agressive. However pink is also a playful colour and I would say both characters have shown that playful side to them when Carrie performs and when Alex joined in with the dancing is one example. Pink also represents friendship, unconditional love, understanding and compassion. I think you could easily relate all of these things to Alex but you might have a harder time seeing Carrie that way. However I think from the fact that Julie used to be friends with her and that little clap at the end of Stand Tall she definitely has the capacity to be all of those things. I do think that clap at the end was the beginning of her redemption arc but that its going to take some time for her character to grow and I think Alex is going to play a big part in helping her with her journey.    

Dancing is another thing that is similar between them. The both seem to really enjoy that aspect of performing. I do think that this love of dance could be what helps them connect in season 2. Alex is always shown to enjoy Dirty Candy’s performance and has joined in with the dancing both times. But they also seem to be wound tightly and often seen as tense or stressed. I do think that they both use dance as an outlet, its their way to let loose and just be themselves without any cares. I do think this could be something they’ll bond over. 

So why is it important that Alex and Carrie make this connection? Well I personally think that out of the three boys Alex is the one that is going to be most willing to forgive Bobby. When they found out that Bobby had stolen their songs both Reggie and Luke had very specific reasons for being angry about it. Luke was angry because if he had been given credit then his parents would have known his dreams were worth chasing. Reggie was angry because if Bobby had given them credit then some of the money would have gone to their families and maybe his family wouldn’t have had their house turned into a bike shed. But Alex never gives a specific reason for being angry therefore I think he’ll be the one most likely to be willing to sit down and chat with Bobby and listen to his side of the story. I think it’ll be through Carrie that Bobby and Alex will reconnect. I spoke in another post (here if you like dot read it) about how alot of the characters have a necklace that they always wear and the symbolism behind those necklaces. Alex always wears a gold chain which as I said in that other post, chains have been a symbol of everlasting love and life since ancient times, its the circle that never ends. Gold is also a symbol of purity,  illumination, love, compassion, courage, passion, magic, and wisdom. Again all of these things are very similar to what the colour pink represents. What’s interesting to me is that even though Carrie doesn’t have a necklace that she never ever takes off she does have one that she wears more often than any others and like Alex this is a gold chain or rather two gold chains.

 Also if you look at the picture on the right where she has pink hair you can see she is wearing another necklace on top of the two gold chains. Now I’m not an expert on designer jewellery but I know there is a brand that is like known for its panther/ leopard necklaces called cartier. I’m pretty sure that’s what the other necklace is. I do think this is obviously suppose to show Carrie’s wealth, gold is also a symbol of wealth and glamour which is probably why alot of Carrie’s jewellery is gold. But it is interesting that it is a cat necklace, again in that other post I talked about cat imagery in the show and how Flynn is often seen in animal prints and has cat imagery associated with her. Cat’s in alot of cultures are guardians to the underworld and spirits. This necklace isn’t the only instance that we see Carrie with cat imagery in Edge of Great she is wearing a leopard print pale pink outfit.  

   Although there is nowhere near as much of this cat/ leopard imagery with Carrie as there is Flynn I do still think this represents that Carrie will also like Flynn will be on team phantoms at some point and like Flynn will act in a helper/ protector capacity. 

Staying on the subject of cats though there is something else I want to talk about. Like I said I think mending their relationship  with Bobby is going to be a big part of completing the phantoms unfinished business. Well I didn’t notice this until @this-is-a-name-dont-worry​ pointed it out to me but like the rest of the boys Bobby also has a necklace that he wears all the time and whch he was wearing in 1995 and 2020. 

I spent ages trying to figure out what the hell his necklace was because in most shots it just looks like a hunk of silver metal. But I finally figured it out and I’m 99% sure that its a lion. 

Sorry about the quality of the picture it’s as clear as I could get it. I’ve tried to make the features a little bit clearer by outlining them. The red dots are the eyes, the orange circle is where the nose and open mouth is and then the mane is outlined in brown. Also like Carrie and Flynn he has been seen wearing leopard print. This makes Bobby the third person to be associated with cats of some kind and what is also interesting is that all three characters are lifers. But the Lion holds a even more special symbolism. Most of the characters can be divided into being more connected to Julie/ lifers or to the Phantoms/ afterlife. For example  Willie and Caleb are very much connected to the Phantoms and the afterlife. But Flynn and Carrie are much more connected to Julie and life. However you could argue that Bobby is that one character that is very much in both worlds. He is very connected and was a big part of the phantoms lives but he was also quite a big part of Julie’s life and is very much connected to her and the living through Carrie. The interesting thing is that Lions are neither nocturnal (active at night) or diurnal (active during the day) but are sort of inbetween. Night time in many cultures is symbolic of magic and the afterlife, the haunting hour as Caleb put it. Daytime is very much the time of the living so its interesting to me that Bobby has a necklace that is the image of a animal that is part of both worlds just as he is. Also as a slight sidenote I do have a new maybe not theory but headcanon, all four boys from sunset curve each have a necklace that is unique to them and that they never take off, I like to think that they all brought the necklaces together, maybe at a stall or something and that they are a symbol of their friendship kinda like friendship bracelets but as necklaces. Still its really interesting to me that Bobby never took that necklace off. Anyway back on track I think the fact that all three of these characters have associasions with cats makes me think that each of them will be instrumental in helping the phantoms complete their unfinished business, especially as cats are often not just depicted as protectors for spirits in the afterlife but as guides. I think each of them is kind of like a roadmarker on the journey to the phantoms completing their unfinished business. 

Ok so going back to Alex and Carrie and why I think Alex will be an important part of Carrie’s character development and redemption arc. In episode 6 there is that truly iconic scene where Dirty Candy is performing and Alex ends up joining them on stage. During the dance Alex passes through Carrie twice. When Ray passed through Reggie, Reggie then formed an attatchment to Ray. The same thing happened between Julie and Luke they formed a deep connection. Obviously I do think that there were other factors than just they passed though them but I do think its significant and its for that reason that I think that Alex and Carrie will form a bond. Also from Reggie’s comment about being able to tell that Ray has a good heart and the looks on Julie and Lukes faces it seems like they can sense the other persons I don’t know personality or maybe even their soul, maybe when passing through for a moment your souls connect who knows. I think Carrie has alot of issues, clearly, but I think underneath all that she is actually more like Alex than we know, a gentle, sweet girl. I think this is something that Alex sensed and that he is going to help her get back to who she used to be and help her reconnect with Julie. I do think Carrie and Julie’s story is the same as Bobby and Luke’s/the Phantoms. I think like Bobby, Carrie has a deep rooted jealousy of Julie. I think that Carrie has a love for music and wants to be successful in the industry and she probably feels a bit like she’s in her father’s shadow and that there’s alot of pressure on her to succeed because of how successful her father is. Although she is good I do think she probably feels like she is constantly outshone by Julie and that Julie’s talent comes really easily to her. Like her father I think she was given an opportunity, I spose you could call it, by death more specifically Julie’s mum’s death. I think with Julie being unable to sing or play music Carrie was suddenly getting alot more attention but like Bobby I think she has alot of conflicted feelings about it because although she is now getting more success she is grieving for someone who has passed. It must be a very conflicting feeling and I think that is why she is so moved in Stand Tall because I do think she had a bond with Rose and just didn’t know how to deal with her dying. Also as another little detail during that scene Carrie isn’t in pink but is wearing a dress that is covered in hearts. 

I think this is suppose to symbolise how her heart is opening up. But the really interesting thing is that the hearts are coloured pink, red and blue which are the colours of the boys maybe this is an indication that the boys will be helping open her heart or that she will help open theirs to forgiveness for bobby. 

Another sign that Carrie might be getting a redemption arc is that in episode 6 again during that scene where she performs all eyes on me she is wearing a pendant of Saturn.

Saturn is symbolic of transition and transformation. I think the message here is clear that Carrie is going to go through a change. As I said I think Alex will play a big part in that. Part of the reason why I think that is because I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Carrie is wearing the Saturn pendant at the same time that Alex joins in with the dance and passes through Carrie. Also I think its significant that the song that Alex joins in with is All Eyes On Me. Again in that other post I talked about how I actually thought the song was telling the story of what happened between Bobby and the boys. Like I said Carrie and Julie’s situation I think is the same. I think just as Alex was interfering and making the dance better (because you know he made it better as fantastic as it already was) he is going to be ‘interfering’  and making Carrie and Julie’s relationship better and then as a result of that Carrie is going to help heal things with her father. 

Ok this one even I will admit is a bit of a stretch but it popped into my head so I figured I’d add in. But in episode 9 when Caleb gives the Phantoms new threads each of them have, well I’m not sure exactly what they are but lets go with brooch. I don’t know if there is any significance to Luke’s and Reggie’s because I haven’t been able to get a clear enough image of them yet but this one is Alex’s. 

 Alex has a cross and a chain that curves like a crescent. The symbol for saturn is this.   

Obviously its not the identical but I can’t help but think they look similar. The other interesting thing is that the Saturn symbol is made up of two components a cross and a scythe. Saturn is symbolic not just of change and transformation but with death, or more specifically death’s scythe. I don’t know I just thought it was interesting and if his brooch is suppose to represent the symbol for Saturn then that means that both Alex and Carrie have worn jewellery associated with Saturn. I do think that both of them will grow and change. I also think it would be really interesting to see these two getting to know each other and them bonding. I’d love to see a dance scene with them both. You know one where Carrie knows he’s there and can interact with him.  

So yeah that was my incoherrent ramblings about Alex and Carrie with a side of Bobby. Now all I need is for Netlfix to renew the show for a 2nd season already.  

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

[love-on-your-wrist]

Analyzing Social Climb (pt.1)

K, so after finally getting back home and having actual WIFI in here, i decided to watch social climb again in its entirety and express some of my thoughts and observations i guess? Anyways lets go

The video starts with a 10-Second long animation of the band´s logo, and directly moves over to the visuals of a fancy-looking house. Over it, there is a bit of text and a headline:

                           “the TELEFOUNDATION presents

                              THOUGHT REFORM

           &THE CORPORATE GUIDE TO SOCIAL RECONDITIONING”

Now, let´s try and analyse this :D

What is Telefoundation?

On the internet, i wasnt able to find any mentions of the word, let alone a definition of the word, so i assumed it was the name of a fictional firm in the iDKHOW universe  But, i was able to find a similar word, “early television foundation” and also a link to something else here: http://www.cftf.org.uk/ if you want to take a look at that. The first one tho, it is a museum “dedicated to the preservation of the technology from the early days of television.“, as directly quoted from their website.

Furthermore, the website says: “Our website's mission is to preserve and make available to the public the history of early television, from the mechanical systems of the 1920s through the introduction of color televsion in the 1950s.“

Aha, so that museum just showcases different TVs from around 1945, how´s that connected to social climb and idkhow? I dont have an idea, but we know that the mv for social climb is a brainwashing propaganda video from 1977, broadcasted over television.

What is Thought Reform?

thought reform is another word for brainwashing used by Robert Jay Lifton, one of the first phsychologists to study both brainwashing and mindcontrol. Lifton was a US-american phsychatrist and author in the 60s. 1970 he was accepted as a teacher at washington school of psychatry. Later, he released his books called “Home from the War: Vietnam Veterans. Neither Victims nor Executioners (1973), and The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide” (1986), of which the publishing years bring us near to the time in which the iDKHOW story takes place.

returning back to ´thought reform´, Lifton offered 8 steps/methods of manipulating minds. I have copied them off http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversion/lifton_thought_reform.htm  for anybody interested:

#1 Milieu control

All communication with outside world is limited, either being strictly filtered or completely cut off. Whether it is a monastery or a behind-closed-doors cult, isolation from the ideas, examples and distractions of the outside world turns the individuals attention to the only remaining form of stimulation, which is the ideology that is being inculcated in them.

This even works at the intrapersonal level, and individuals are discouraged from thinking incorrect thoughts, which may be termed evil, selfish, immoral and so on.

#2 Mystical manipulation

A part of the teaching is that the group has a higher purpose than others outside the group. This may be altruistic, such as saving the world or helping people in need. It may also be selfish, for example that group members will be saved when others outside the group will perish.

All things are then attributed and linked to this higher purpose. Coincidences (which actually may be deliberately engineered) are portrayed as symbolic events. Attention is given to the problems of out-group people and attributed to their not being in the group. Revelations are attributed to spiritual causes.

This association of events is used as evidence that the group truly is special and exclusive.

#3 Confession

Individuals are encouraged to confess past 'sins' (as defined by the group). This creates a tension between the person's actions and their stated belief that the action is bad, particularly if the statement is made publicly. The consistency principle thus leads the person to fully adopt the belief that the sin is bad and to distance themselves from repeating it.

Discussion of inner fears and anxieties, as well as confessing sins is exposing vulnerabilities and requires the person to place trust in the group and hence bond with them. When we bond with others, they become our friends, and we will tend to adopt their beliefs more easily.

This effect may be exaggerated with intense sessions where deep thoughts and feelings are regularly surfaced. This also has the effect of exhausting people, making them more open to suggestion.

#4 Self-sanctification through purity

Individuals are encouraged to constantly push towards an ultimate and unattainable perfection. This may be rewarded with promotion within the group to higher levels, for example by giving them a new status name (acolyte, traveller, master, etc.) or by giving them new authority within the group.

The unattainability of the ultimate perfection is used to induce guilt and show the person to be sinful and hence sustain the requirement for confession and obedience to those higher than them in the groups order of perfection.

Not being perfect may be seen as deserving of punishment, which may be meted out by the higher members of the group or even by the person themselves, who are taught that such atonement and self-flagellation is a valuable method of reaching higher levels of perfection.

#5 Aura of sacred science

The beliefs and regulations of the group are framed as perfect, absolute and non-negotiable. The dogma of the group is presented as scientifically correct or otherwise unquestionable.

Rules and processes are therefore to be followed without question, and any transgression is a sin and hence requires atonement or other forms of punishment, as does consideration of any alternative viewpoints.

#6 Loaded language

New words and language are created to explain the new and profound meanings that have been discovered. Existing words are also hijacked and given new and different meaning.

This is particularly effective due to the way we think a lot though language. The consequence of this is that the person who controls the meaning of words also controls how people think. In this way, black-and-white thinking is embedded in the language, such that wrong-doers are framed as terrible and evil, whilst those who do right (as defined by the group) are perfect and marvellous.

The meaning of words are kept hidden both from the outside world, giving a sense of exclusivity. The meaning of special words may also be revealed in careful illuminatory rituals, where people who are being elevated within the order are given the power of understanding this new language.

#7 Doctrine over person

The importance of the group is elevated over the importance of the individual in all ways. Along with this comes the importance of the the group's ideas and rules over personal beliefs and values.

Past experiences, beliefs and values can all thus be cast as being invalid if they conflict with group rules. In fact this conflict can be used as a reason for confession of sins. Likewise, the beliefs, values and words of those outside the group are equally invalid.

#8 Dispensed existence

There is a very sharp line between the group and the outside world. Insiders are to be saved and elevated, whilst outsiders are doomed to failure and loss (which may be eternal).

Who is an outsider or insider is chosen by the group. Thus, any person within the group may be damned at any time. There are no rights of membership except, perhaps, for the leader.

People who leave the group are singled out as particularly evil, weak, lost or otherwise to be despised or pitied. Rather than being ignored or hidden, they are used as examples of how anyone who leaves will be looked down upon and publicly denigrated.

People thus have a constant fear of being cast out, and consequently work hard to be accepted and not be ejected from the group. Outsiders who try to persuade the person to leave are doubly feared.

Dispensation also goes into all aspects of living within the group. Any and all aspects of existence within the group is subject to scrutiny and control. There is no privacy and, ultimately, no free will.

Most of these methods are intigrated into the social climb music video, showing an elite, almost cult-like group of people most liekly cut off of the rest of the world, etc. i think #3 could also be a reference to the song “modern day cain” by iDKHOW, of which (for example) the pre-chorus is:

“So now you've done a little wrong And you need to be forgiven By the Vicar and the company you keep And then you conjure up a fiction To get the pretty girl to listen“

and also the main chorus that is:

“This is the sin That I will confess to release myself From consequence And everyone can tell“

in which method #3: Confession is mentioned directly. (Oh boi, i think we gettin to the point now, but after 2 hours just straight out researching and writing the first two explanations/theories i kinda dont know how to formulate the next section. i´ll take a short break.)

What is Social Reconditioning?

As i did my research on the internet, the term “social conditioning” seemed to have appeared way more often in results, and doesn´t seem to differ that heavily from social reconditioning, so let me explain it first. Social conditioning is  the definition of training someone to behave in a manner that is generally approved from society and/or peer groups in society. “Manifestations of social conditioning are vast, but they are generally categorized as social patterns and social structures including nationalism, education, employment, entertainment, popular culture, religion, spirituality and family life. The social structure in which an individual finds him or herself influences and can determine their social actions and responses. “ (Wikipedia)

So now that we´ve got that figured out, what would Social Reconditioning mean? I myself would explain it as having to adjust from one specific social pattern/structure to another. an example i provide is a soldier coming back home from the war and having to adjust into the general city-life from the strict life in an army. The “corporate guide to social reconditioning” is most likely to be a book in the iDKHOW universe abouthow to fit into a generally acepted form of society again. But what other social structure, or rather group of people is it, that one has to recover from?

 This is what i think is worth mentioning in this wikipedia article:

“Propaganda.

Edward Bernays, Freud's nephew and the father of propaganda and public relations, used many of his uncle's theories in order to create new methods in marketing. In Propaganda, he published that "If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without them knowing it".[4] He used the herd theory in order to create public relations, thus conditioning the public to need particular goods from certain manufacturers. In the same publication he stated, "A single factory, potentially capable of supplying a whole continent with its particular product, cannot afford to wait until the public asks for its product; it must maintain constant touch, through advertising and propaganda, with the vast public in order to assure itself the continuous demand which alone will make its costly plant profitable."[4] His theories and applications in social conditioning continue throughout his work. “

In Summary/Conclusion

Social climb is a propaganda/brainwash video

It is from the late 70s (1977 to be exact)

The band iDKHOW is in it, joined by Whiteshadow (the white skull person with the mask), possibly meaning that Bamd has time-traveled into 1977

Social climb is very likely to be referencing Modern Day Cain, and probably MDCs music video

The propagande video might be advertising or warning the public about a cult-like group of elite people

Which are a Illuminati-like organization, if not Illuminati itself

speaking from scenes like the one at 1:19, where the Pattern on the table undoubtedly is a pyramid with an eye in the middle, having the letter i,d,k,h,b,t,f and m in each rectangle in the first row

if i get any more stuff facts about the actual video into this i might as well make a second part out of this