#proship mindset is a queer mindset

[b0gdasha]

Perhaps it will be a bitter pill to swallow for most people but something needs to be said:

[fuzzyfoe]

on your sideblog you sometimes reblog stuff about the harms of the purity culture in fandoms, how shame/punishment is ineffective, sometimes things are uncomfortable and thats fine, etc. stuff like that and it helps me alot because i get paranoid about expressing myself online bc people can be so hostile

Not gonna lie, reading the first half of this ask put me on edge a bit because I know how people are lol.

I'm glad I was somehow able to help someone feel a little more at ease online! I feel like Tumblr has been starting to get a lot better of an attitude about this than it used to have years ago due to the userbase having matured, but it could just seem like that due to me having moved accounts and re-following only the people who were more normal about this sort of thing though.

When I was diagnosed with OCD as a child I mostly had the more stereotypical kinds of symptoms relating to symmetry and cleanliness back then, but as I grew older and overcame those kinds of symptoms through meds and therapy it began to manifest more in the form of how other people see me online and whether I'm secretly a pedophile or some shit instead. This caused me to parrot some pro-censorship shit I saw online as a teenager out of fear of seeming "suspicious" to the artists I had a parasocial relationship with at the time, and to the people I talked to online who were queer and neurodivergent in the ways that I was that nobody who I knew at school was.

Believe it or not it was actually my parents who helped me get out of this mindset. I think my brother was showing my dad some meme, I chimed in about how I heard some person who was involved in the meme drew nsfw art of a fictional character who was a minor, and my dad responded with something along the lines of "how does that matter? the child is only fictional" and I was basically taken aback by how my own father had basically just defended loli. In response I told him every argument I had heard from "antis" online about lolisho and he explained to me why each one of them was bullshit one by one.

For the longest time after I was still afraid to speak my mind on anything because I felt like I had basically built my entire social circle around these types of people. A lot of things I was interested in at the time had fandoms that were full of people who would loudly complain about how horrible proshippers were. What if I lost all my friends? What if it became impossible to make any new friends due to everyone blocking me? What if it became impossible to see any of the kind of art and fandom stuff I liked anymore due to everyone blocking me? What if nobody would interact with or care about any of the art I posted anymore? What if I had no other way to fulfill my social needs anymore? I even became afraid of the friends I actually knew irl, because we were still all in the same online circles and they would've been exposed to the same rhetoric as I was.

As you can see now I have gotten better from this to the point where I now openly reblog posts relating to this sort of thing on my sideblog which can be accessed from my pinned post on this blog. The funny thing is, nobody seems to actually read pinned posts or do any background checks to the extent I was always paranoid that people did on here, because I keep getting an influx of new followers with people who have "proship dni" in their bio lmao. I guess publishing this ask will be rent-lowering gunshots.

[r4wnz]

Radqueers trying to paint a picture of being comorbid with profic beliefs is SO dangerous to proshippers.

I'll never understand how these things got roped together but I suppose the radqueer community is already quite infamous for using false equivalence for acceptance. (Their tendency of comparing homophobia, slavery and ableism to anti paras) Literally an antishipper mindset to think your fictional beliefs reflect your real ones. Sure, every radqueer should be proship, but not every proship will be radqueer—very few of us are, I find.

Yeah someone who's apart of a community that largely grooms children is going to be okay with seeing those tropes in fiction because... if they are okay with it in reality why wouldn't they be okay with it in fiction??? That would be unbelievably stupid.

But proship beliefs say absolutely NOTHING about queer identities it's literally just anti harassment/censorship belief.

Insinuating proship is comorbid with radqueer beliefs is going to result in even more harassment of us. If anti-shipper think we are pedophiles over FICTION, seeing people who ACTUALLY encourage real pedophilia they're going to tear Us apart even though we have nothing to do with that community.

If we receive death/rape/torture threats, doxxing, and witch hunting over emotional speculation what do you think will happen to us when pro contact paraphiles represent our community???

~

(originally this post was expressing confusion on smth regarding radqueer beliefs however I've been informed that what I was thinking of was radinclus! but I still agree heavily with the other part of my post so I decided to edit rather than delete as I think it's important to talk about!! apologies for issues in text- I've been fighting with Tumblrs post editor it's been majorly laggy)

[beetlebuggsblog]

Welcome, travler!!

𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹

My name is Jaxon or Jax(if we're closer). My pronouns are He/Him and I am a Queer Trans man(ftm)

𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹

I am an age regressor. Meaning, I regress to a younger mindset as a way to cope. This is completely SFW. Personally, I regress to the ages 0-4

𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹

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𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹𖦹

My aesthetic is Goblincore. Which is an aesthetic based on the appreciation of aspects of nature that are not typically regarded as beautiful. These aspects can range from animals such as frogs and snails to materials such as moss, mud, plants, and fungi such as mushrooms.

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My Intrests & Hobbies

•Bugs

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•Reading

•DIY Crafting

•Music

•Reseach

•Cartoons(like Adventure time)

•Sleeping(lol)

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Banners!! (Not made by me)

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!DNI!

Z00s, p3ds, Mvrrsu1ters, MAPs, N$fw/adult/K!nk (mature content) accounts, proship/darkship, Haters, rude people, drama-causers, Anti-furry/therians and Homophobes/transphobics, transracial, ABDL, transage, (NOT AGEREGRE) etc.

[just-antithings]

A couple years ago proshippers who were formerly antis came up with their own hastag (#/supportexantis) with stories that some have shared explaining what made them change and leave the anti mindset.

Many have become victims of a coordinated dogpile, while others realized how suffocating it is keeping up the facade of being 'good'.

The key thing that made a lot of Antis change to Proship or just no label is experience and curiosity. A great deal of Antis of ALL ages experienced loneliness and isolation, exploring their Queerness while others just found a community of like minded individuals

The younger Antis *first* experiences in fandom and the differences from what they have at home or their school life is almost refreshing. Depending on where they live, it can be dangerous to express anything that wasn't taught to them either religiously or by some other structure

So they go on social media and there's a community that like the same ships/shows they do. But they don’t understand that sometimes those places mirror toxic things that they've learned at home but while wearing a a rainbow flag and having an anime pfp

But humans are by nature, curious, we seek even to our own peril.

So even in groups of people who are saying 'Don't like this fictional thing or ship because its bad and gross' there's this part of you that wants to know why?

This is the reason why so many of them despite their bleating and performing on 'aren't' they brothers' etc

Some confess that they have indeed different accounts on AO3 etc and consumed the same forbidden' media in secret and when caught they'll say 'they didn't know' but we all know what it is. Hit dogs holler.

Other times its because Antis, without fail will *always* eat their own.

Antis get bored easily, they get jealous just as easily. Every single 'big' acct that's either a super popular artist that has or happens to create a ship/content that's Anti catnip inevitably will have a call out by a Anti friend or follower who's disgruntled, jealous or both.

And because so many Antis foolishly trust their Anti 'friends', despite them not really being their friends, just fellow bullies. Will share their 'forbidden' private accts, DMs etc with them. Thinking that 'No, they'll never out me.'

Then…boom. We get call out posts

Some Antis slowly begin to realize that this game is unwinnable. You can never be 'good' enough and everyone on the other side and so called 'normal people' are enjoying the same 'toxic bad thing' in fiction yet civilization hasn't fallen apart.

They see people love the wholesome and also love the problematic shit, their faves are openly 'proship', the art and fics they love are made by non Anti people. And you have to ask, what is the actual benefit being an 'Anti'?

You're not having fun. You're not creating anything.

You have to perform like this **every day**. Big name favs tell you that you can like 'this ship' support 'this content'. Call out 'proshitters', bring up the Jaws Effect. Over and over..

To be an Anti is to literally not enjoy yourself in fandom because you csnnlt be yourself in a fandom.

You have to remember so many 'rules' and those 'rules' are inconsistent. Your only 'enjoyment' is when you gang up on someone or make a easy clout harvesting tweet 'Pedophilia is *totally* bad you guys!' relying on the normies not knowing this tweet is about an anime ship.

This of course doesn't mean the other side is free of conflict but by in large you'll find more support, more links to resources and a overall 'healthier' community with proships/no label.

Antis will provide nothing. It's not an if but a *when* the dogpile will be on you.

So when an Anti leaves, they have to either be fed up performing, be harassed out, or stealthily unfollow/block their friends to make their escape.

And it sounds like extreme hyperbole saying that but that is legit how many of them left being an Anti.

.

[roxanneslosteyes]

Full DNI

Tw for brief mentions of heavily topics (p3d0philia, incest, abuse, SA/sexual abuse, rape and human trafficking)

warning for minor mentions of Proshippers/proships since people like me are uncomfortable with Proshippers/Proships or they are uncomfortable with shipping discourse (that's what people call it to my knowledge).

So if you are uncomfortable with these topics I highly suggest to not look at this post or at least wait if you are in good mindset to read it

Side note: There are no fandoms {besides like one due to the nature the type of media is} nor harmless ships on this dni list because if there any media or harmless ship I don't like is normally blacklisted by now. This dni don't really have tags for those types of people. And the ones that do have tags don't really use them sometimes so they can still interact with my account when I don't want them too.

(BIG NOTE: If I mention Fetishisation or fetishize. It's in not in the context with Fetishes. Fetishisation in this context means treating group of individuals mostly minority groups as sex objects or even heavy topics as sexual "fantasy". This type of heavy Fetishisation isn't done by survivors as a coping mechanism but by people who aren't survivors and it's very harmful. For example, if someone has a rape fetish, it fuels the rape culture beliefs, that's one of the ways Fetishisation of heavy topics can be harmful.)

Proshippers/Comshippers/Darkshippers (Whatever those types of "shippers" are now called, these shippers fetishizes heavily topics in ships like abuse, incest, etc. Also some Darkshippers still use proshipper term so that's why I added it here)

(In the original context of term proship and comship was originally pretty harmless. Comship was originally made for ships that were complexed like Goddess/God x human, vampire x human, Vampire x werewolf, etc. However the fetishes changed their name by stealing another shipper name which complicated things this is the same for proship which was originally meant supporters of ships (which was harmless and not fetishizing heavily topics) until those fetishizers stole the term and completely changing the original meaning.) (And the fact proship/darkship/comship community has alot of adults who are groomers too and has groomed minors into being proshippers/Darkshippers so yeah the community is just a safe place for online child sexual predators or child predators or Darkshippers/proshippers are child predators/Sexual child predators themselves but dont want to admit it) (side Note 1: Darkshippers still use proship/proshippers and still use comship/comshippers even though users are trying to get these terms BACK to their original meaning so that's why they are on the list) (side note 2:I have blacklisted the tags for proshippers/Darkshippers/Comshippers so I won't see them but sometimes they won't use the tags for some reason. I had a Darkshipper's artwork on my fyp of a fandom I love and a meme with two characters from the fandom I love. I reblogged it but didn't know they were a darkshipper until I looked back and saw a tag saying they are a Darkshipper. I did unreblog and unlike it and blocked them.)

(Another reason: They also disrespect creators boundaries so add Proshippers/dark shippers community being a safe place for sexual harassers and rape culture mindset people)

profic people (people who are interested in harmful things in fictional media isn't lime that in real life. For example someone being a lolicon/someone who in sexual or romantic interested in child-like in looks or child anime characters ≠ liking kids in that way/ways irl. Even though it still makes one a pedophile no matter if the child is fictional or not.), Radqueers (Someone who thinks people with harmful paraphiles like pedophile, Zoophiles, Necrophilies and transids/transracial/transabled/etc linked to transids should be in the queer community.)

(Lolis/Lolibait being one of the harmful things in fictional media.)

(Note: The fetishized/Fetishizes/Fetishers as in fetishisation, Fetishisation and Fetishes are VERY two different things despite sharing a same word. One is straight up bad because its harmful aka Fetishisation because Fetishisation treats groups of people as sex objects not humans)

(Examples of groups of people that Fetishisation has its hands on: sex workers, women, lgbtq people, POC/People of colour, traumatised people etc. Fetishisation even applies to heavy topics like SA, p3d0, ¡nc3$t, etc which harms people who went through those trauma. This type of Fetishisation isn't from traumatised people nor does it come from people with mental issues/disorders, it's comes from non traumatised people/abled body people (people with no disorders/mental issues) because its apart of the Fetishisation of the traumatised people who went through this trauma. For example there is a popular book about heavy topics however re-releases of that book, the cover of these re-releases sexualizes the heavy topics in the book. Because its apart of that heavy topics Fetishisation.)

(Note pt 2: while one is in the grey zone aka Fetishes. Grey zone doesn't mean it is 100% bad thing and you are automatically a evil person! It's a complex thing that depends on the person 👍. How is it complex? Well Some Fetishes can be apart sadly apart of Fetishisation, while other come naturally, while others are from trauma, while others are come from disorders or mental issues, etc. That's why it's complex, this is same said with kinks which is also complex and in the grey area because it's depends on the person for that reason and how they are treating their Fetishes/kinks. Fetishes and kinks aren't all evil but we all have to be aware of horrible people who are misusing their fetishes/kinks to keep people with fetishes and kinks safe from those types of people because those types of people don't see their partners as human with boundaries, safe words and feelings but an object which doesn't create a healthy environment in that nature. The people who misuse kinks/fetishes come from fetishisation to the point they might harm people in real life because of their kinks/fetishes that came from fetishisation. Fetishisation even got its dirty hands of fetishes and kinks too however not everyone has sexual fantasies/kinks/fetishes come from fetishisation/want to harm others! There is a big difference between people with fetishes/sexual fantasies/kinks that don't come from fetishisation and people with fetishes/kinks/sexual fantasies that come from fetishisation!)

people who hate on kins (like fictionkins, dollkins, otherkins, etc) and therians

p3d0s (this includes L0l¡/sh0t@ likers/supporters) (Note: I'm not talking about people with intrusive thoughts nor people who was falsely accused of the horrible crimes like p3d0ph¡l¡a. They don't count in this dni) (Context: Lolicons and Shotacons are grown adults who find fictional characters that look like children/toddlers/babies attractive or sexual attractive. So yeah basically they are pedophiles trying to justify their sick behaviour behind "It's fiction" excuse. Shotacons for attracted to little boys and Lolicon being attracted to little girls)

Z00files/Animal rapists

Crypto bros/sisters (idk the female version of a Crypto bro even though there are women who go into Crypto)

People who think sexual abuse can be "consensual" (yes there are people people who think sexual abuse can be "consensual" when that "consent" wasn't even consensual)

People who uses "don't read/play/watch it" to put people down for criticaling media or calling out media which has harm in it. (Even though they can simply block those people instead of commenting that if they can't handle the truth, don't like their favourite media having criticism or straight up have harmful mindset they want to keep. Yes don't play/read/watch term has been used to put people down for criticism or calling out harmful behaviour instead of actual trying to help people LIKE ITS SUPPOSED TOO! You know people who thought they can handle it then they turn out they can't and thats perfectly fine!)

Anya x Jimmy (From mouthwashing) shippers

transids (transabled, transracial, etc)

intersexist

exorsexist

Urbanspook Fans (I don't want people who are a fan of exploitation horror on my account. It's fine if you have your own au that isn't a work of exploitation horror like the original because the series had potential but it ended up being created by someone who is a piece of shit. It's just people who like the media being exploitation horror as it is)

(If you don't know, exploitation horror is a harmful genre in horror, it uses heavily topics just to get a reaction from the audience or there just for shock value. There is nothing wrong with using heavily topics in fiction ofc! But using heavily topics just for shock value can be harmful)

Fatphobic people

Ai artists/supporters

Ai fanfic/author writers

Art stealers

Fanfic stealers

Anti furries people

Anti therian people

Any people who just hate anything that is harmless and isn't harming people in real life

Radqueers (People who are in support of paraphiles, yes it includes the harmful ones like pedophilia and want them in the queer community. If it was about the harmless ones only like people wanting to date a robot or a device. Then sure, it wouldn't be a bad thing. But they are supporting the harmful ones so I don't want those people on my account)

(Okay I found out that term also got fucking stolen and changed by people who want pedophiles, animal abusers and corspe rapists in the queer community. The original term was pretty harmless with queer communities allowing harmless different gender identities in the community. If you are of the original meaning term you are allowed to be on my account. If you are the one who wants Animal abusers, corspe rapists and pedophiles in the queer community. Please block me.)

People who bully beginner artists/Artists with exaggerated art styles

People who find "jokes" of people bullying beginner artists/Artists with exaggerated art styles "funny"

NFT supporters/likers

People who are into stepcest (Step mother x step daughter/son, step father x step daughter/son, etc)

Donald Trump supporters

Transphobic people (This includes terfs/Transgender exclusionary radical feminists)

Homophobic people (This includes Lesphobic, Aphobic, Biphobic etc)

Racist people

people who believe in purity culture

Anti ACAB/All cops are bastards

Swerfs/Sex Worker exclusionary radical feminists)

Anti porn people (This is due that anti porn comes from whorephobia aka the name of the bigot nature against sex workers because pornstars are still sex workers and anti porn also comes from purity culture too. Its also demonises human trafficked victims and drug addicts. Its also supports police brutality)

anti sex work people (same reason as anti porn, it comes from whorephobia and purity culture, the demonstration of Human trafficked victims and drug addicts and supporting police brutality)

(How does anti porn and anti sex work demonise drug addicts and human trafficked victims? Simple it's the police, police arrest drug addicts when its been provided time and time again, addictions don't come out of nowhere it comes from some sort of cause like childhood trauma, peer pressure, trauma in general, mental health issues, etc. Sex workers can be drug addicts due that they are human just like everyone else, they can have the same reasons why they got addicted to drugs. The police will arrested human trafficked victims if porn and sex work is illegal because they are still a "sex worker" and not a victim in the eyes of the police and the victim were only trying to escape their abuse only to be thrown in prison or even get the death penalty. So being anti sex work or anti porn supports police harming drug addicts and human trafficked victims also making porn or sex work illegal harms POC/People colour and POC/People of colour sex workers because police will kill or arrest people of colour who aren't sex workers and cover their hate crime with "they were a sex worker/Pornstar so I can Legally kill them". Yes making porn or sex work illegal gives police to kill more innocent people legally meaning it won't count as "murder" or "hate crime" or "Abuse of power" in the eyes of the court.so yes being anti porn/sex work doesn't make you a "Feminist", an "Ally" to queer, victims of human sex trafficking or people of colour, disabled people, transgender people, its makes you a supporter of police's violence against minorities and victims. I swear many anti porn and anti sex work people have forgotten why the whole ACAB/All cops are bastards movement exists.)

N@z¡ supporters/N@z!s

Israel. supporters

Ablest people

Pro Capitalism

Pro patriarchy

Anti abortion people/Pro lives

People who think fictional can't affect reality (I'm more talking fictional that has harmful elements such as demonising minorities, fetishizing heavily topics aka Fetishisation of heavily topics, etc, false information about animals or groups of people) (For example, in fictional media they demonise sharks which had a strong affect on real life. Fishers won't save a shark that been caught because they think they are going to kill them because that what fictional media told them. How racist people demonise cultures in their fictional media to the point, people start to think that's how the culture is like without looking into it. Another example is how media treat female sex workers to their male sex workers counterparts. Female sex workers are mostly seen as human trafficked victims that have no plot to the story, its just "all female sex workers are human trafficked" point. But when it's male sex worker, there is no mention him being human trafficked. It's seen as his job he signed up for. I have no problem with media calls out with serious topics that happen in jobs. But this is a double standard in fictional media about sex workers) (note: There is also problems with fictional media that can harm real people, for example there is a oversexualisation about women especially black women in fiction media. This came from gross white men and has caused affect of women. I think people think fetishizers fetishize real people of colour sex workers when it's not always true. They go after fictional porn too. This is why it's important for websites that allow fiction porn to block tags that rooted in fetishisation of real people, same with websites that allow real porn to save real sex workers to not feel dehumanised and help the less fetishisation of real people. Heck there are countries that block out inappropriate material that used for harm in fictional because predators use it instead of real child sexual abuse material or any real abuse, child predators do use harmless material of kids too sadly. I think people think child predators only go after real sexual abuse material. When they don't, they look at alternatives and fictional child sexual abuse material is one of the alternatives.)

People who think cyber bullying isn't real

People are anti an religious that isn't Christian (example: Anti Jews, Muslims, Pagans, people who believes in Satanism, etc. These are about people who hate religion because they can not about people who hate religion due to religious trauma!)

misogynists

zionists (not the religion, the people who support Isnotreal since that's what they are called.)

Incest likers/supporters

fetishizers (the ones who fetishize race, Sexuality, Disabled ppl, People's trauma, gender, bodytypes, etc aka seeing groups of people as Objects not humans.)

bimisogyny (another term I wasn't aware of that existed until now so its also on my dni list)

Sexist ppl

Fatshamers

Slutshamers

Victim blamers

People who hate on harmless ships (Such as Oc x canon, canon x canon, rarepairs, Self inserts x canon etc.)

Toxic Helluva boss/Hazbin fans who have to make a big fuss over harmless things (like a vaild criticism of episode feeling rushed as a example or even harmless redesigns. (I seen alot HH/HB fans being just bad people over the redesign one when the redesigns were just there for fun or to help with character designs for future ocs they might have or characters if they go onto bigger things 😥) (Also I'm not talking about people who is critical out of pure hate for the creator or show. Since those type of criticise is out of hate then being helpful. Like I seen toxic helluva boss/hazbin hotel fans getting pretty pissed off at people who are critical of the show who are being very respectful with their criticise of the shows. Since the criticise they have is pretty useful for anyone. :3)

👆 This goes with any fandoms ngl

Any toxic fans really in any fandom

Alex Kister apologists/supporters (The creator of TMC, I'm not talking about people who don't know what he has done nor fans of TMC! Im just people who knew what he has done and still support him 👍)

Bigoted people!

ICE supporters (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)

People who make traumatised people's trauma as gender wars (Example: Mostly **from what I seen btw** the male fake allies of male trauma of any type survivors saying 'It's happens to men too' under a female or AFAB person of the same trauma video about their trauma)

Anti-Kink people

Fujios (This is under fetishizers who fetishizes groups of people since they fetishize gay people to my knowledge, correct me if im wrong 😭.)

People who forgave yan dev and people who support him

People who support Dream (The dsmp member)

Fascists

People who romanticizes true crime

People who treat real victims of trauma as circus animals and not humans

MERF (Male exclusionary radfem/Radical "Feminist", I looked this up and many sources say its an alternative term for terfs who are Transphobic to trans women, they see trans women as men.)

People who sexualizes/Fetishizes religion (that does includes nuns because the fetishisation of nuns came from cisgender straight men who has/had a rape culture mindset)

People who think cisgender men or straight people or white people can be opesssed (the only times these people can be opessed is they already apart of a minority but again they aren't being opessed. For example a cisgender man might be a person of colour living in a white dominated country he is opessed because of his skin, a white person might disabled they are opessed because they are disabled and straight person might be transgender they are only opessed because of they are transgender. These are only examples.)

Lovelypeaches fans/stans

People who demonised addictions (yes this includes the demonising porn addiction and Character ai/cai addiction since porn addiction and Character ai/cai is still addictions. Addictions are hard to stop being addictions, shaming someone for their addiction isn't helping or portraying someone for their addiction as a "bad person" or calling out a user for their addiction is also a shit thing to do. I don't use c.ai, I think people attacking people over unhealthy addictions is bad thing to do instead of helping them!)

(Also people who have addiction to cai or character ai are mostly minors and people shouldn't be harassing minors.)

Anti recovery people

White supremacy people

Classicism People (I think that's how you spell it, People who judge others based on where they are in the hierarchy)

Wilbur Soot (The YouTuber from Dream (Minecraft YTer's group) Supporters/forgivers

white feminists (White Feminists are basically a "Feminist" version of White supremacy)

People who think "blackwashing" exists (it's a term that was created by a white supremacist)

transmisogyny people (I didn't know this exists until recently)

Georgenotfound supporters/apologist (I'm not talking about people who didn't know, I'm talking about people who do know and still support him)

Those "meme/joke" accounts or people who support those accounts (the ones that joke about heavy topics not for comfort but they don't see those heavy topics as heavy topics, straight up bigoted or hating on people who is having fun and doing something harmless)

People who spread misinformation about important things and heavily topics on purpose

culture appropriation people (under the racist dni)

People who have crushes on REAL LIFE abusers/rapists/serial killers/etc

People who use character ai/cai to talk to AI bots of real people (I'm not talking about live action characters more so on real life abusers/actors/singers/rapists/serial killers/etc. I don't use c.ai but i still find it weird)

People who write/read fanfics of real people (Again not talking about live action characters since it doesn't count due it is a character. This is more about celebrities, actors, etc since it's done without their consent most of the timr. Even people do this with real life serial killers/abusers/rapists/etc)

People who "joke" about fucking animals/fishes (it's fucking weird, I don't know what's so funny about sexual animal abuse)

I should really explain some things of my DNI list.

What's Terf?

A terf is short for Trans-exclusionary radical "feminism"/Trans gender exclusionary "Radfems"It's pretty self explanatory, they are "Feminists" who are Transphobic.

What's a Swerf?

A swerf is short for sex workers exclusionary radical "Feminism"/Sex Worker exclusionary "Radfems".

Swerfs are the sister of terfs in a way.

Yes the sex work industry and its sub industries have serious problems and exploitive however the sex work industry and its sub industries aren't the only industries with serious problems and exploitative, all industries in this world have serious problems and exploitative due to all industries are under Capitalism and Patriarchy's control.

Swerfs also have this black and white view of sex workers and clients, Swerfs think all sex workers are straight cisgender women and all clients are straight cisgender men when in reality sex workers can be any gender and Sexuality same with the clients.

Swerfs also think sex work is the reason for women objection (when it's Patriarchy's fault) and sex work is only for "Male gaze" (Which doesn't make sense as male clients aren't the only clients due there are clients that are all genders)

The time i know about the male gaze fits into sex work more on the heterosexual men side since well that's literally what male gaze applies too, gross Heterosexual men (I'm talking about misogynistic straight cisgender men who objectify women btw)

However Swerfs only use it to fit in "Every sex worker is a woman and every client is a man." View they have while completely forgetting about lesbian SWers, gay SWers, Bi Swers and other Sexuality outside of straight SWers and clients. Queer clients and Swers exist.

Swerfs also blame sex workers for the gross crimes of men and inappropriate behaviour against women (Again Patriarchy's fault) **FROM WHAT I SEEN**

They also blame sex workers for holding up the patriarchy and blame them for fetishisation of groups of people who get fetishized instead of the fetishizers and Patriarchy.

They also paint SW as all types of literal sexual crimes. When SW and those sexual crime CRIMES ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

(SW is legal and the crime they normally paint Sex work as takes place in countries where SW is illegal.)

Swerfs treat sex workers as not human as all, which is really dehumanising. For example when a gross man is being weird over a woman's body and people call it out they go "wow you met a real woman" since they associated this kind of behaviour with porn or they go "Wow, you met a woman outside of porn" which gives the vibe if a woman becomes a pornstar (a type of sex worker) she isn't a human anymore which is really dehumanising. It's like how terfs and transphobes hate trans women because they aren't "real women".

also Sex w

Also they are very hypocritical, For example many swerfs see SW as danger to women and queer/genderqueer/trans/intersex/non binary people that aren't SWers (because they think Queer SWers, Female swers, intersex swers, trans swers and genderqueer swers are responsible for the quee/trans/intersex/Non binary fetishisation and gross men seeing women as objects. They only care about non female, genderqueer, trans, intersex, non binary SWers and non queer SWers not the Swers themselves even though that's what they are claim to be "saving") and fictional adult content is fine, only for them to a 180° and start attack fictional adult content and also calling it harmful to women and queer people (Also doing the same thing they do to SWers. They blame all SWers for the actions of gross men and not the gross men for their own actions or in some cases blame all SWers for a one bad SWer actions. For example if a SWer is doing kinks that are for traumatised people for the male gaze and people found out about this, swerfs blame all SWers for that SWer action.) But in this case, blame every person who does adult content instead of the gross people (aka the queer fetishers and gross men who see women as objects or the people who made that content for the male gaze/they are queer fetisher themselves). (Don't get me wrong there is problems with fictional adult content of all kinds, it's good and important to call it out. However what I explained with the swerfs, there aren't doing that. It's about villainizing and controlling thanks to purity culture.)

Also swerfs with anti fictional adult content movement they now hooked on, they also have the same black and white mindset like they do with SW but In this case be the only people who draw/write adult content are men. (I guess queergender/intersex/trans/no binary people, women and queer people who draw/write adult content is non existence recording to swerfs)

I do understand the worry about minors getting into sex work while underage however it isn't sex work's fault for this, it's the lack of education because there are some important things that is missing like if they went homeless while underage its literally child endangerment but schools wont talk about it. but many schools don't teach that. Heck even in sex education, some schools don't teach kids consent or signs of sexual assault/sexual abuse or safe sex, some schools just stick to sex = babies and pregnancy over and over again. (From my experience at least in school at least). How to fix this? Tell people how important education is! Instead of blaming sex work.

Of course, the sex work and porn industry deserves to get its serious problems spread awareness. People forget that these industries are complex due to how easy it gotten to do porn or sex work same with other industries like Video games, Animation, Music industries (industries with same problems due to corruption of jobs as a whole). Like Porn and sex work don't need a boss to get the job unlike before pornstars can pick up a camera to do porn with other sex workers who is the same as them (aka they are being self employed or having friends who are sex workers or a partner who is okay with this type of sex work). Making Sex work or porn illegal doesn't help these problems. It causes more problems. Heck, Police doesn't give a shit about human trafficked victims in all types of jobs industries. They still think they are breaking the law and call them "illegal workers" then arrest them or sue them and letting their abusers off the hook to continue their harm. Swerfs only bring these problems just to make those jobs illegal which again doesn't help.

Making sex work or porn illegal gives police the right to LEGALLY kill sex workers (that includes sex human traffic victims, Poc/disabled/queer/Intersex/queergender/transgender/Non binary people, people in other minorities and women who aren't sex workers), that's right the law can give police to kill sex workers legally. It won't be seen as an abuse of power or murder or police violence againist the innocent in the eyes of the law. These people have families and friends since they are still human, if a police officer kills them then their families and friends cannot do anything about it. Because the police officer will tell the court "They were a sex worker, by rights of the law. I was allowed to kill them." No matter what if they killed a sex worker or not. They will use it as an excuse. Why on earth are they giving more power to the corruption of police force?

What are anti-kink people?

Anti kink people are people who don't understand kinks at all but only know the serious harmful stereotypes of kinks. They don't want to learn about kinks, they want kinks to be illegal due to the harmful stereotypes against kinks they know of since these harmful stereotypes have filled up their brain so they assumed all kinks are like their harmful stereotypes counterparts

Also they confused kinks with Fetishisation.

(Note: Fetishisation isn't about fetishes, Fetishisation is about people seeing groups of people such as survivors of literally crimes, POC, disabled people, women etc as objects not as humans.)

When both aren't the same thing. Don't get me wrong there are people who misuse kinks for their own pleasure or for the "male gaze" or fetishisation of real types of people (especially kinks that are mostly used by traumatised people as a coping mechanism, that kink was formed from their trauma or take back control they lost in their trauma because people who aren't traumatised by the topics that the kinks are based on because they find those topics "hot" and it's closer thing they are going to get to their gross fantasies) also there is kinks that arent here to help traumatised people but to fetishisation people/fantasies about harmful stuff/justify gross mindsets (by non traumatised people/gross people btw) and we should call out these gross people but anti kink people can't tell the difference between kinks being used right, kinks being used bad or the "kinks" that are rooted in harmful nature

They think all kinks = bad/harmful without talking with traumatised people who have kinks, people with kinks or doing any research on the kinks themselves.

The same way Swerfs want SW to be illegal and Terfs want transgender to be illegal too.

Due to

Swerfs treat sex workers as subhumans and the cause of everything bad

Terfs treat Trans people (Mostly trans women) as sub humans

Anti kink people treat kinks as an abomination sub group to sex and the cause of every thing bad.

Because of the Transphobic ideas, SWphobic (idk if I can say the actual word on here) ideas and anti kinks ideas against those people (Sex workers and Transgender people) and that group (kinks)

Also making kinks, sex work, porn illegal is apart of Prison–industrial complex, if you don't know, to be it short it's a racist system in prison system aka putting POC sex workers and queer POC in danger (Since kinks are a big part in Lgbtq community). This system is already in prison system and is actively causing harm to POC (People of colour)

[profic-orbot]

🔴    Perhaps it's time we broke something down...?

🔴    Becoming proship isn't about trying to explain shipcourse to offline political representatives or family. It is about shifting perspectives, it is about changing your own harmful mindsets and worldviews into one that will not actively involve hunting down queer and trans people.

🔴    When we (proshippers) say that these things would end up having an effect in real life, we do not mean the fiction. We mean how you treat real people.

🔴    Bad faith understanding and jokes will only limit your own capacity for nuance and learning. You are training yourself not to learn by either taking things far too literally on purpose, or by engaging in the worst possible faith imaginable.

🔴    If you do not want to waste your energy on something, then do not engage with it.

[raayllum]

not really appreciating or understanding still the whole purity culture accusation for pointing out that people are well in their right to find a unhealthy power dynamic ship between Aaravos and a 19 yr old more uncomfortable than Aaravos and a middle aged guy well into adulthood - this isn't purity culture, this is, like, a really normal perspective and perfectly fine for the fanbase of primarily young people (if not children) to have, I don't understand what's worth getting upset about, is this just rehashed proship discourse or what

and I don't think you're really in the mindset to be having this discussion, considering I've said your main point of contention - that it is understandable and ofc absolutely allowed for the age gap to be what people find off putting about Claudia and Aaravos - over and over again:

like to be clear whatever makes you uncomfortable makes you uncomfortable, nothing wrong with that, block tags/people and curate your experience all you want

and I'm gonna be honest with you, on tumblr? TDP is an extremely adult heavy fandom. To the point that when I first joined the fandom back in 2018, I was one of the youngest, and still am, even in my early 20s now. And tumblr is a 17+ age site anyway, so young children shouldn't even be on here (and if they are, they had to sign a button saying they were older, and it's on them and their parents to figure out how to curate their online experience, soo).

So let me reiterate:

People are allowed to be squicked out by Claudia and Aaravos' age gap. But to act like there's a moral slant to it - Viren/Aaravos being better/fine/less morally problematic - is a facet of purity culture and culturally Christian attitudes towards sex. The issue isn't the discomfort, that's something that's often very personal and subjective, the issue is the moralization of that discomfort. Which, as a queer person, is very very similar to how discomfort and morality are utilized and weaponized against queer people and 'taboo' literature in general. Which again, as someone with a degree in English who also teaches the humanities for a living, is something I'm acutely familiar with.

"We have to be careful about what we portray in art because impressionable people may get confused between art and reality" is not a new take. It's the backbone of Plato's The Republic. It's what essays were written in opposition of in the 1600s. It's what 19th century British grammarians were concerned with when codifying 'proper' English down into the first real dictionaries. It's the same mindset curbing portrayals of LGBTQ+ people in media today, because when you moralize certain things, you put up emotional barriers than get in the way of actually dismantling the thing you're talking about in the first place. It's all the same shit. It's all the same moralized thought crime. And to say you should never question WHY something is uncomfortable is a surefire way to never question any bias you may or may not have - because biases aren't always bad, but they should absolutely always be examined so you can see where it's coming from. Yours and others personal discomfort is not a Standard, the same way what I'm personally comfortable with or discomforted by is not a Standard, but I'm not acting like mine is, and you are

'Rehashed proship discourse' is what helped cultivate the environment that led to a massive wave of harassment of the aro and ace communities online from 2013ish to 2017ish (which I saw first hand). It's also what led to me, a 16 year old, being harassed by grown adults and called a pedophile somewhat regularly for what cartoon characters I wanted to kiss, because I had the same opinions on not moralizing what people do in fandom as I did at thirteen, and as I do now.

If you look at any ship or dynamic with a large age gap and write it off solely because of the age gap, you're not engaging in critical thinking. It's a "you don't need to know why this thing is bad, you just need to know it has a label of Bad". It's as simple as that, and that's precisely the problem.

If you want to do more reading and to expand your horizons on the subjects I'm talking about (literary analysis, societal purity culture, upacking biases, etc.) I suggest this tag on my main blog, and feel free to come back and discuss. If not, have a good day, but I don't feel like continuing this conversation any further, simply because unsurprisingly, it seems that critical thinking is something you are struggling to apply, and I don't think we're going to get very far without it.

[goatlingsvent]

Yeah I don't care for the anti vs pro debate. All I know is it's nearly an exclusive online debate. Incest as a kink is .....very common in porn and I've actually heard debates about "daddy" and "baby" as pet names being potentially problematic.

I wouldn't say I'm a pro-incest, necrophilia, zoophilia, etc. so no I'm not a proshipper in that sense. Because yeah that stuff is kinda fucking gross and no thank you.

But like I'm also like I wouldn't call my self anti either? Mostly because I try to avoid sounding like I'm terminally online, and I'm also anti-censorship and pro-handling things in a way that's tasteful and respectful, though I also have read dead dove stuff. I do things that many consider anti, but also some that could be proship.

The biggest reason I avoid the terms altogether is because people have different meanings for the words, some even trying to reclaim the words and or change their definitions, hell both sides have different definitions for what the other's word means. So like it's confusing and best avoided.

It's kinda like how bibliophile has no sexual connotations, but necrophile does, so even though I have a HUGE interest in death, the dead, the morbid and macabre, funeral rites and holidays and practices meant to celebrate and remembering the deceased from different cultures, taxidermy, zombies, undead monsters, ghosts, etc. Etc. I'm never ever gonna call myself a necrophile. Because I'm dumb, not stupid.

And also because people cope in strange ways often seem as weird or taboo. They don't involve real children, corpse, animals, etc. Just adults and other adults. I see a lot of people who say all coping methods are valid only to turn around claim these guys aren't. As long people are staying safe and keeping it between consenting adults and not involving those who didn't or cannot consent, I don't see much issue with it, just so long as it's consensual and safe. But this apparently like a very pro-ship mindset or something.

And I also do believe in the nuances that reality can be separated from fiction, but it isn't always like that and fiction CAN affect reality. It's literally why representation for queer, disabled, racial and ethnic minorities in media matters, because it affects how people see minorities and even treat us.

And I know that the queer, kink and even furry communities have a LONG intertwined history that's not able to be separated from one another. Also the furry and anime communities too. Long story short: the first anime conventions were also furry conventions, and the earliest known furry convention was a queer NSFW met up.

However the anti-label person has a very conservative, purity, swerf, transphobic, homophobic, racist, etc. association for me, I personally associate it with people so up their ass that they can't stand to see people who are a negative or problematic stereotype existing, to the point while they often have good intentions do end up being like hateful to people who just exist and just so happen to be walking stereotypes.

I'm pro-sex work, and I acknowledge a lot of individuals from various minorities aren't perfect pure examples of their respective minority. Some are bad people, and some are REALLY bad people or EXTREMELY 1:1 of stereotypes many see to be distasteful and or even offensive.

I see some proshippers wanting to explore the dirty dark nuances of that, and are basically not actually pro-anything they make content of. But there are also a lot of proshippers who are gross and weird.

So like. Whatever. Idk. I don't like either label and idk what a comp-shipper is? Like I'm def the type to rise an eyebrow if you have an avatar of or say you like a certain character or "problematic" person. But like don't be weird. Don't be gross. And be respectful of boundaries? It's not that hard.

🗽

[neuship-zone]

i saw ur reblog on the queer mindset post and i can kind of think of a way to explain it!!!

because although it's not inherently queerness itself, a lot of my mutuals (who are proship) are also very much queer. it's generally a very pro-kink statement, and the kink and queer communities have been intertwined and had each other's backs since forever.

also helps that the proshippers i meet are far more accepting of identities they're unfamiliar with than the antis i've met. my last notable interaction with an anti was them making fun of my identity lmao (and sending me rape threats, but that's offtopic)

this is just my take on it tho, and i felt like engaging in a discussion since u were open to it. it's 1 am for me right now but i hope you're doing well

I literally just woke up lmao

So what I'm gathering from this is that you consider it a queer mindset because of the overlap between kink, queer and proship communities.

I very much see the difference between how proshippers and antishippers treat different identities, although I must say that both can be prone to ignorance depending on who you're talking to.

Anyway thanks for sending me this ask!

[blindaysblogforturtles]

The controversy stems from the fact that April has been assimilayed into the family early on the turtle's lives; and so many feel like by therefore judging it as incest they are validating her place as a Hamato. She is, after all, the very opposite of 2012 Karai, who was family only by blood, who got the same kind of shit from fandom.

Your ship, though, is NOT incestual by any means, simply because while growing up together, the turtles met April at some point - weren't raised with her - and aren't related to her by blood. She CAN be an adopted member of the Hamato Clan AND still be a romantic partner (people in a clan don't necessarily have to be related to each other), the two facts aren't mutually exclusive.

Anyways. I also want to add that, even if it WERE the case of proship - which we already concluded, isn't - op shouldn't be harassed. People are entitled to like whatever they want forever and acting as if doing so was a sin is a HUGE sign of hypocrisy, specially if you're part of a minority. Remember, being queer was seen as a perverted and sinful kink even though it's neither. Proshipping is kind of a kink. And that's okay. It's fiction, and as long as it isn't harming people, it means nothing. Harassing people for it is hypocritical, judgemental and purely based on a puritanic mindset of a white knight.

EVEN if kinks and likes of the sort of proshipping were to be morally wrong, harassing people for it on the internet would NOT solve tha fuckin problem.

So let people be ffs.

Btw op if ANYONE harasses you bc of it, lemme know, and I'll do whatever I can to help you thru it and make it stop. Anon harassment is the attack of cowards.

hi i just wanted to say that i'm so sorry that random people are harassing you for "proshipping"

i know that i'm just some random online guy but i saw some of your posts about it and it frustrated me so fucking much

like just because i don't ship april and leo doesn't mean i have the right to harass people who do

so yeah that's it i'm sorry people suck and keep doing what you're doing because i fucking love your art it feels like a very soft blanket on a cold morning

If you think it's frustrating imagine how I feel LMAO

Fr tho I appreciate it I'm trying to keep up my work. I just want ppl to relax a but cause rn I feel like my existence alone is "controversial"

[thor-is-trans-and-pan-he-told-me]

Why hello folks!

Edit:as of 2/1/25 I don't go by Kurt. I'm going by Saint now.

some things about me

Mexican American

Demiboy

He/They pronouns.

Unlabeled. All you need to know is that my sexuality.....is complicated.

Autistic

just here to help add to the chaos that is tumblr

a03

I would like to say:I have a 'don't like don't read' mindset. I do not identify with the terms 'anti' or 'proship'. I believe no one should be harassed regardless of what they like in fiction. If you're not comfortable with that,then please leave.

I also do post/reblog suggestive and nsfw posts so be careful!

I am a queer Mexican American so if you're not comfortable with that as well(*insert bombastic side eye*) then again please leave.

thank you and have a wonderful day!

[thethiefandtheairbender]

My homie please don't tell me you tried to equivalate the real life debate and seriousness bof the don't say gay bill to your anti vs. proship bs

Hi, out queer, ace, and trans person here! I also have an honours degree in the study & history of how fiction can influence reality. Let me take you for a walk (and I'll make sure it's short or else you'll pull the "you think I'm reading all that?") I also already know, thanks to looking at your blog, that you’ve decided I - a sex repulsed, ace adult in a relationship with another adult - am a pedophile, so thanks for bringing back the years of harassment I experienced when I was a literal minor but was unwilling to post my age online bc u know, I was a minor who wanted to keep my privacy a mind-whopping... 2.5 years ago. But clearly I’m decrepit and out of touch now. Never change, tumblr.

A lot of current American politics, including the Don't Say Gay bill (and previously the Hayes Code) was derived from puritanical Victorian era leanings and Calvinistic conservative Christianity. This includes: gayness as an identity > an act (trial of Oscar Wilde), idealization of motherhood, and the moral panic surrounding the 'degradation' of the English language that 18-19th century Grammarians were always concerned with (hi Samuel Johnson).

Another thing grammarians and writers have been concerned with since before is what is Okay to be portrayed in art. Plato's The Republic thinks that art is immoral because it may give people unrealistic or unsafe ideas because people are 'unable' to distinguish fiction from reality. He later retracted this, although Aristotle's Poetics was a text where Aristotle disagreed with Plato's prior established opinion.

Re: the past 3000+ years of literary discourse - those who try to restrict the radical aspects of art lose the argument every time, and start it back up 30 years later.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that art has always been very political, as is most things. Fandom, as a pop-junkie transformative spiel, has also been deeply political, particularly for marginalized people.

Fandom nowadays is full of people who believe that, in order to be really sorry about something, someone has to publicly repent per whatever moral standard has been decided to else the congregation - I mean twitter - will publicly shame them for their sin.

Fandom is entrenched in cultural Christianity and the conservative mindsets that come with it. Aphobia in fandom was rampant from 2014-2017; truscum and tucute discourse as well; how prevalent TERF rhetoric can be (women are inherently good, attraction to men is shameful, etc). I've seen all of these things in fandom. All hinge an idea on being able to decode a person's intent (somehow), the rising attachment of morality to genres of entertainment (antis), and how many antis I've seen that are TERFs or Aphobes or guzzling down that rhetoric without even realizing.

Terfs and the Conservative far-right have a long history of working together. Both frame concerns of gay people as pedophiles, being anti sex work (because sex is nasty and a sin), that we must Protect the Children who cannot monitor or make any decisions for themselves at any age. The anti vs pro ship dynamic online is a microism of larger public discussions regarding purity culture - and that includes how queerness is overly sexualized, how queer sex is seen as especially dirty, the "should kink be at pride?" discourse, and issues with respectability politics.

Antis who say we have to harass people to control what exists in fandom to "protect minors" on a moral basis are ideologically adjacent to parents who decry earlier Sex Education for children (which, every time it's implemented, is shown to decrease the amount of abuse children face, not further it). A quick scroll through your blog tells me you're willing to generalize hundreds of people's personal history with CSA because you don't think survivors can 1) vehemently disagree with you or 2) demand disclosure of their personal history to exist online void of that harassment.

Aka to take some tags to the forefront: #like the schools don't want to talk about queerness and are banning books so kids don't get Ideas#and people also don't want 'problematic' fiction in fandom in case kids get Ideas or can't use critical thinking skills#it's not a hard leap to make

It sounds like you're the one who has a problem with reading comprehension and building connections between different kinds of discourse, not me. It's almost like teenagers (queer or otherwise) raised in conservative or culturally Christian homes are more susceptible to puritanical rhetoric, or something... 🤔 (I could also get into just how American the current fandom anti vs pro conflict is, but I think this is long enough, don't you?)

A final note from this article:

Beyond betraying simple art illiteracy, though, these intensely personal, emotional complaints and appeals to public safety have a clear antecedent: religious and conservative opposition to “obscenity.” The centering of individual values and pain, the assumption that a universal moral standard exists which should guide all public or quasi-public art and behavior, and the belief that art can do material harm to both people and culture as a whole unite the two at first apparently disparate groups of angry indie gamers and religious fundamentalists.

The deployment of victimhood as an unimpeachable defense is an old tactic frequently used by hate groups like One Million Moms and its parent organization, the American Family Association, whose rallying cry “think of the children” now echoes through everything from intra-community Gay Pride discourse to the drearily predictable “there’s too much sex on TV” tweets that seem to sweep across the platform on a weekly basis.

[neuship-zone]

Average shipcourse debate

Perhaps it will be a bitter pill to swallow for most people but something needs to be said: