#pro-taryn duarte

[stargirlie25]

Random: Why do you dislike taryn duarte?

Me:

“I get why he chose her. I just wish she had chosen me.”

Thats it.

[ghosttownheart]

I have only just started The Cruel Prince and I already dislike Taryn.

Like please FUCK OFF-

Jude finds ONE THING that brings her happiness in the last 16 chapters of this godforsaken book, and Taryn couldn’t rip it away from her faster.

Go crawl in a hole and stay there. Please for the love of god.

[pagelover]

Taryn Defense Incoming:

Let’s not ignore the fact that Locke is performing literal magic on Taryn their entire courtship and marriage- one of passionate love or hate. If y���all would remember that line from Peter Pan about how fairies can only experience one really big emotion at a time (it is not the same in TFOTA universe, but it is very similar) and how we see fairies experience grand emotion that quickly oscillates between very drastic emotions. She is experiencing love like a fairy, and it is being done to her without her knowledge. It is not known by us nor the rest of the characters that he is a love talker until Oak’s duology but then we find out that no wonder she could not break that promise and tell Jude, no wonder she kept going back to him, no wonder she kept accepting this rancid behavior from this man. She literally cannot resist him and then when his betrayal of her love is so great she murders him. He pulls people between the two poles of love and hate. Boy is a literal love talker, and people give this girl no grace for falling underneath his spell.

[ifyoudontknowletmego]

nesta and taryn are two perfect examples of sisters being sisters to their youngest sister (idgaf if it’s not canon, jude is the youngest sister and nothing will change my mind). it is important to pay attention to who is telling the story, and in both of these cases, it’s the youngest sister. that is going to affect how the story is told, and how their relationships with their older sisters is portrayed.

because the stories are told by the youngest sister, of course there are going to be parts of nesta and taryn’s lives that fayre and jude don’t know about and/or understand completely.

particularly with nesta and fayre, is it so difficult to acknowledge that nesta was also going through the same shit that fayre did after their mother died, and that their responses were different from the other’s?? like, do i hold my own oldest sister responsible for not taking care of me when my family went through trauma??? no, i don’t, because she was dealing with it in her own way. would i tell all of my significantly older friends about it, and then have them hate my older sister for her response to trauma the way the inner circle do to nesta??? absolutely not. and then with all of the events of the cauldron and the king and whatnot (it’s actually been a while since i read the books so this is just from memory), nesta just needed some kindness from her sisters. but, instead, her younger sister’s significantly older friends ousted her and emotionally (and physically) abused her.

also, kind of related but on more of a tangent, if i was fayre and all of my friends knew that i was going to die if i gave birth and none of them told me before i could safely abort the pregnancy, and the only person who did tell me was my older sister, idk, i think that i would defend my older sister against my husband and his friends. i really think that the inner circle showed their true colours and alliances in that.

when i reread the folk of the air last year after seeing anti-taryn posts for the two years after i first read it, i was so confused at the absolute hatred taryn gets in the fandom. she’s just a (kinda) normal girl, who is also trying to survive faerieland. it is also clear that people haven’t read the lost sisters, as that is from taryn pov to jude and it has that explanation that is perhaps lost on a lot of readers of the main trilogy.

idk, i have a lot of thoughts on these two characters in particular and how the fandoms treat them that this post doesn’t really do them justice, is just the tip of the iceberg to my thoughts, while also being quite long…

i will forever be a nesta and taryn defender and i really don’t care. if there is blame to place on anyone, let it go where it belongs: rhysand and locke. seriously, fuck them. locke got what was coming to him, and i hope the same can be said for rhysand

[fenrysmoonbeamswife]

I have such an issue with characters that are portrayed as sweet and endearing when they're more ruthless and disloyal than anyone. Characters that are simultaneously judgemental and hypocritical. Characters that only accept another character when they do exactly what they want or need.

If a character is ruthless or takes issue with another character or uses other characters for their own gain, fine. But own the fuck up to it, portray them that way in the narrative and don't vilify other characters for their same behaviours or lesser behaviours.

There's literally nothing I hate more than a hypocrite. A character could be the nastiest skank ass hoe ever but if they own it then that's fine, you do you. But don't pretend they're a golden retriever, sweet little flower child while they're blatantly being an asshole in the text

[seleneprince]

What are your thoughts on Taryn from TCP?

I know what she did was like wrong, on all levels. Betrayal and stuff but I genuinely think that a lot of the fandom kind of overreact? Like I genuinely feel like it's a small form of internalised sexism but I ain't a therapist so this like my hypothesis?

I really think that Taryn is just an example of how desperate someone can be when they want to fit in, to the point they do horrible things just to 'survive', in a way. Is it weird to say that I think Taryn has a lot of self-hatred?

Like you can tell she resents her human nature a lot already, but i wonder how deep it really goes.

I hope Holly Black will give Taryn her own book (I know she has her own book, but like an actual book with her own adventures, ya know?)

Oh wow I wasn't expecting this, but I'm more than glad to answer

I admit I was on the board of hating Taryn for what she did at first. While I can understand her motives (with time) I still didn't agree with her, because we see Jude's pov willing to do anything for her and it's obvious Taryn doesn't return the sentiment. She felt ungrateful and selfish to me, but then, that's the thing right? We only see things from Jude's pov, and even though she's pretty self aware compared to most first pov fantasy protagonists, her narrative can still be biased and not completely accurate to reality.

Taryn's betrayal pissed me off a lot, not only because she did that to the one sister that's always been ready to let herself be step on for her, but because I read Jude's pov of said betrayal and I felt the pain, the anger with her.

As time passed and I got to revisit this books more times, I came to the same conclussion as you did. Yes, Taryn did some questionable stuff, and to her own sister no less. But she did it because she desesperately wanted the same thing as Jude: To fit in Faerie. The difference was their methods. Jude went by earning her place through blood and schemes (and she was a fucking icon for that) while Taryn went for it by playing the fae's games. They both did morally grey shit to prove themselves and everyone that they belonged in that world. They're humans with Fae hearts, raised by their parents' murderer. Of course they're going to do morally fucked up stuff. They've never been allowed to be remotely normal.

However, we can acknowledge and understand a character's motives and still resent them, and that's the thing with Taryn in the fandom. While most of us can agree she had valid reasons to do what she did, she's hated because the victim of her actions was Jude, her sister, whom we see from her pov how loyal and protective she is of Taryn. Jude is no saint, but she never actively hurt any of her family. It has nothing to do with internalized sexism.

And that said, she won me over inmediately when she killed Locke and didn't have an OUNCE of regret for it. Fucking icon too. I stopped hating her right away.

Taryn is a complex character that's neither good or bad, just like Jude. She does what she deems necessary to get what she wants, and she makes mistakes. It makes her realistic. And I think that alone makes her better than a LOT of fantasy protagonists.

[1800naveen]

Just because you can relate to an unpopular character doesn't mean you're an abuser or a horrible person.

It makes me a bit bummed out when I find a character that I can see myself in and later find out that they aren't well liked by the fandom (Taryn for example).

It's also strange that some people don't feel empathy towards certain characters. Feel whatever you want to feel but damn. I hate Rhysand but I still feel for the guy and what he had to go through with Amarantha.

[light-summoner]

Taryn is Madoc's daughter

I think she's meant to be his narrative mirror.

They both killed their spouses after they turned out to be something that they didn't anticipated. Both do so by blade. They are left to deal with a child that their spouse left behind.

Madoc doesn't go to trial for his crime. But we don't forgive him, not really.

Taryn is meant to be trialed. We forgive her, sort of, Locke was horrible anyways.

She is clever, Madoc trusted her for his coup of the throne. Just like him, she hides her intentions until she strikes. Jude didn't believe that any of them would do such a thing, yet they both do so anyways.

Thinking about how when Madoc killed the girls' mother, he dripped his cap in his blood until it was coated red and hardened. About how when Taryn killed her husband, she ran to her sister for help and in the way found forgiveness.

Thinking about how they are the same, but Taryn chose life and Madoc chose death.

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

haven’t even read tcp but shoutout to that one blog that’s literally carrying the pro taryn tag. you are obviously correct and wise and anti taryn people are wrong

[duchessvultjag]

madoc when jude, taryn, or oak experience any kind of problem:

[pagelover]

Also, we like to ignore the fact that Locke is performing literal magic on Taryn their entire courtship and marriage- one of passionate love or hate. If y’all would remember that line from Peter Pan about how fairies can only experience one really big emotion at a time (it is not the same in TFOTA universe, but it is very similar) and how we see fairies experience grand emotion that quickly oscillates between very drastic emotions. She is experiencing love like a fairy, and it is being done to her without her knowledge. It is not known by us nor the rest of the characters that he is a love talker until Oak’s duology but then we find out that no wonder she could not break that promise and tell Jude, no wonder she kept going back to him, no wonder she kept accepting this rancid behavior from this man. She literally cannot resist him and then when his betrayal of her love is so great she murders him. He pulls people between the two poles of love and hate. Boy is a literal love talker, and people give this girl no grace for falling underneath his spell.

If my dear girl doesn’t know peace and get her boyfriend back in the next books, I will cry.

Unpopular (?) opinion: Taryn Duarte is a really cool character, and the hate she gets is so disproportionate to what she actually did in the books.

I struggle to read her in The Cruel Prince as anything other than the victim in an abusive relationship with Locke, and as such deserving of sympathy even if you don't like her. Locke manipulates her into keeping quiet while he flirts with Jude, playing on her insecurities and desire to fit in at court (which is the exact same thing Jude wants. Also the extent of Locke's manipulation and abuse is detailed in Taryn's novella). When Jude finds out she goes after her sister rather than Locke which, I hasten to add, is fair enough. She challenges Taryn to a duel and nearly kills her. Again, in context, that doesn't automatically make Jude a bad person. As we know, she is morally grey and her actions are understandable. But so are Taryn's.

Further, I think the reason her "betrayal" of Jude in The Wicked King is seen as so unforgivable (despite the fact that Jude literally ends up forgiving her) is that there is a fundamental disconnect in how Jude and Taryn view the situation. Jude obviously sees it as a terrible political betrayal: Taryn ruined everything Jude has worked for and sided with her political enemy (Madoc). But from Taryn's point of view, Madoc is their father, not an enemy. Taryn didn't know Cardan could be trusted, and she believed that Madoc (probably with reason at that point) was acting in the best interest of the family and wouldn't actually hurt Jude. She has no idea of Jude's plans and strategies because Jude never tells her. From Taryn's pov, there is no reason Jude couldn't just join the rest of her family (and in fact, Madoc keeps trying to recruit her). In short, Taryn has no way of fully realising why Cardan remaining in power is as important to Jude as it is. Taryn isn't twirling a figurative moustache at the prospect of dealing a dastardly blow to her sister's political regime. She is following the advice of her father in a way which she believes won't actually be damaging to Jude.

In the first two books, her relative passivity and attempts to fit in at court through conventionally feminine means make her a morality tale about believing in classic fairy tales, hence her being represented as a victim of an abusive relationship (in a way paralleling her mother's murder at the hand of Madoc). But her character is more than that. The narrative does not merely condemn Taryn's femininity, pacifist tactics, diplomacy etc. in favour of Jude's more traditionally masculine aggression, military skill, and cynical politics. Not only does Taryn manage to ecape her abusive marriage, she proves her resourcefulness and intelligence in tricking Cardan and in dealing with the Ghost. Even Jude admires her for the skills she learned from Oriana.

There is a lot we don't know about Taryn. In many ways, we are seeing her at her lowest possible point for three books. But there is definitely plenty of evidence for a charitable and interesting interpretation of her character if only we afford her the same level of understanding we afford Jude.

[pagelover]

I will in fact defend Taryn Duarte till my dying breath, fight me 🗡️🌸

[slightlyrebelliouswriter23]

Hey! I wanted to know why Taryn's character gets a lot of hate even tho she was trying to survive in faerie just as Jude did. Except her way of survival was more traditionally feminine and demure.

this has honestly been my point since like... forever lmao. if you've been on my blog for any length of time, you'll know i'm a pretty big Taryn apologist. i speak more about it in this post. but essentially, it's exactly what you said. and i have more to say.

[DISCLAIMER: this post is tagged as pro-Taryn Duarte. any comments or asks i receive expressing the reason why You Hate Taryn are entirely unsolicited and will be deleted on sight. if you don't like my opinion you can block the pro-Taryn Duarte tag, and scroll away.]

I. Me, harping on about Madoc deserving more of the fandom's scorn, part 300

it will always boggle my mind how this fandom allows Madoc every grace of "the complex character/relationship" but we don't afford Taryn even remotely the same attempt at understanding. even when Madoc committed infinitely more betrayals, infinitely more attrocities, than Taryn ever committed–or indeed has had time to commit given her extremely young age (compared to Madoc's centuries of life).

that's not to say i don't love Madoc. i think he's a great villain and his character, particularly his relationship with his children, is very complex. but why can't this be the same way we treat Taryn?

regardless of this blatant double-standard, people still hate her, and i think it has a lot to do with (as you said) the way Taryn handles her traumatic life events.

II. Trauma Responses and How They Are Received

[FOR LEGAL REASONS, THIS POST IS DISCUSSING HOW THE TRAUMA RESPONSES ARE PERCEIVED STRICTLY IN TERMS OF CHARACTERS, NOT IRL PEOPLE/SITUATIONS!]

i've discussed this on here before, but the Duarte sisters exhibit three out of the four recognised trauma responses in the way they cope with their parents' death/being taken to Faerie:

Jude- fight

Vivi- flight

Taryn- fawn

i think we can all agree that, in terms of what an audience wants to see from characters, Jude's fight response is the most palatable of the three. not only because she is the main character (and thus, everything is from her perspective/justified in her eyes), but also because it is what i believe most of us would want to be able to do ourselves in the face of adversity and hardship.

it's the most commendable. it is probably also the hardest to maintain (as is made apparent by the series as a whole). which is why the other two sisters employ alternative modes of survival.

as discussed in this post, Vivi survives by escaping. whenever and however she can. i'm not sure how everyone feels about this one. until recently, i had no idea people even had strong opinions about Vivi.

but i do know that the flight response could be considered a bit cowardly, even if it's effective. if there's anything to be respected about it, though, it's that the person knows in no uncertain terms that they are not cut out for facing the trauma head-on. and they are the first one to admit it.

the fawn response, however, is a kind of camouflage. it's doing everything in your power to be perceived a certain way, to fit in, to please people.

the thing i think people dislike about the fawn response, is that (if you twist the perspective enough) it could be viewed as dishonest. deceptive or manipulative. perhaps even spineless, depending on the situation.

and indeed, these are all phrases i've seen thrown around in close proximity to Taryn's name.

throughout the book, Taryn plays nice in order to get people to like her. she does whatever the fae tell her to do, even at the expense of her own or her sister's humiliation. and instead of making her own place at court, she announces that she will "fall in love" to earn her seat. meaning that she will rely on one of the fae (likely someone with station) to give her the privilege of staying at court, through means of marriage or children.

it's a more passive route to survival than Jude's. but that route isn't any less valid. it's just less masculine.

III. Active vs. Passive (and how it leads to misguided sensationalism)

society has taught us not to see passivity as a mode of operation, and unfortunately, this makes for overtly sensationalised (and therefore inaccurate) interpretations of character.

if the only actions a character takes are deceptive ones, we conclude they are intentionally deceiving people. if the character doesn't act at all, they are apathetic people. no matter the character's own motives. if they do not act the way we wish them to act, they must be in direct opposition to what we want.

take Taryn, for example. if her modus operandi is to camouflage, or passively fit in, we don't recognise this as an action. rather, we look at what she does do.

in order to achieve her goal, Taryn must actively betray her sister (multiple times), lie to her (multiple times), and kill her husband in cold blood (an attribute, if you ask me, but whatever). through these actions, we, as the audience, realise Taryn is not nice. but she portrays herself this way so she can get what she wants. as all good writing does, we are made to feel deceived right along with Jude.

but even though Jude herself forgives Taryn eventually, we still dislike her. because she is not our sister. she is not the main character. she doesn't mean much to us. we don't regard her as a nuanced person–she becomes, to many, this two-dimensional "enemy" or "other".

and if you aren't thinking critically about the text, and instead take the story personally, then yeah. you're going to hate Taryn at the end of it all.

people have a way of interpreting actions as the sole basis of character, while disregarding motive or intention. i don't think this wise. it's reductive at best, disingenuous at worst.

actions are a product of our nature and the conditions of our environment. Taryn is in just as much peril as Jude is in Faerie. the only reason you, dear reader, might not like Taryn is because she didn't act how you wanted her to act, and because she didn't act how you wanted her to act, she ended up hurting someone you care about (Jude).

this well-meaning loyalty unfortunately doesn't do much for an accomplished understanding of the text. which i get it. some of us are just here for fun and that's fine. but if you take the time to hate a character with as much passion as people seem to hate Taryn, you have time to think at least a little bit critically about the text.

—Em 🖤🗡

more theories & analysis

[slightlyrebelliouswriter23]

IMO people's main issue with Taryn is that she chose to deceive her own twin and played with her feelings just to get a place in faerie. I mean sure Jude's deceived her family too but she never intentionally played with their feelings, especially with her twin's. Infact, Jude put alot at stake for her family. In this way Taryn is more selfish than Jude, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it makes her less likeable.

DISCLAIMER: this is not an invitation for more opinions on Taryn. this is an extension of a pro-Taryn post. if you don't like it, block the tag.

i'm not sure if this is Your Opinion, nonnie, or if you're just playing devil's advocate, but since this ask is phrased politely, i'll entertain it.

i think you're right. Taryn is more selfish than Jude. so are a lot of characters in this series.

i think you're right. Taryn is not likeable. same goes for a lot of characters in this series (Jude included). i discuss this in my last post.

i think you're wrong. Taryn did not intentionally betray her sister just to betray her sister. you're looking at the surface level action there, and that's where the argument falls flat for me. i address this in my last post.

Taryn betrayed her sister to survive in Faerie. just as Jude murdered and lied to and deceived everyone around her to survive in Faerie.

yes, Jude having an ulterior motive of "saving the realm from being ruled by Balekin" (even though this is only one of quite a few less-selfless motives) is more palatable and likeable than Taryn having the ulterior motive of saving her own skin. the point of characters, however, is not to be palatable or likeable or moral, and if that's why you're reading books, i suggest you examine why that is.

Jude does a great deal many things that might be considered contemptible if they were not told from her perspective. indeed, one might regard Jude's actions, especially in TCP, as brash or reckless. i'd go so far as to say selfish, even. by intentionally vexing the royalty of Faerie because she hates them and because she's angry, and furthermore by plotting against them to steal the crown, she puts her family, and most of all TARYN (because she is the only other human), at great risk. yes, it is ultimately "for the greater good" but Taryn never got a say in Jude's plans. Jude was so determined to humble the fae, she forgot (or worse, didn't care) who it might effect.

and make no mistake. i love Jude for all of this. but to hate Taryn just because she had her own plans for survival that might also effect Jude in kind? that's a kind of wilful double standard i'll never understand.

—Em 🖤🗡

In Defence of Taryn Duarte

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[slightlyrebelliouswriter23]

what are your thoughts on the lost sisters? or maybe you have many and i just can’t find it in your posts?

CW: this post is explicitly pro-Taryn. if you find her triggering, please take measures to protect yourself by blocking the "pro taryn duarte" tag, unfollowing/blocking me, or simply scrolling away. i will not be taking counter-arguments on this post.

i've done many posts about Taryn, but i don't think i've ever done one about The Lost Sisters specifically!

i've only read it once, so my memory of it is a bit rusty. i remember thinking The Lost Sisters offered perspective. we spend so much time in Jude's head during the series, and i felt the new POV added depth to the world.

while i don't condone anything Taryn did in TCP/TWK, i can say her novella helped me understand it.

I. It's About Compassion

the great thing about reading is that books can be some of the biggest practices in compassion. the point of Taryn's perspective is not to say, "feel sorry for me" or "please forgive me"—though, that is often how i see it interpreted.

the point is to say, "haven't you ever been jealous of someone? haven't those feelings of jealousy ever uncovered something ugly in you? hasn't that ugliness ever made you do something you regret? so, you see? we are not so different."

if, however, your answer is no, you haven't ever been jealous to the point of cruelty or doing something you regret, then you're either lying to yourself or you haven't lived. and if you haven't lived this experience, then you really cannot say what you would or would not do. you can only say what you hope you would do, which is not the same thing at all.

II. It's About Mirrors

it's funny to me that one of the biggest motifs in this series is mirrors.

Jude makes this comparison multiple times in regards to her and her twin.

Taryn explicitly tells Jude in TCP that she is the mirror Jude doesn't want to look at. (ch. 23)

and yet, readers continually overlook this crucial and poignant idea when considering Taryn's narrative.

the point of Taryn's book, as is the point of all books, is to make the reader feel seen.

perhaps you don't like what you are being shown, but she is holding up the mirror, regardless. she is telling you that there's a capacity for this–jealousy, betrayal, cruelty–in all of us. she is saying that she has seen all of these things in Jude, too. and perhaps you hate her for that.

but i'd argue that the narrative of TLS also tells us, albeit indirectly: "jealousy is not an intrinsically bad emotion. making mistakes and doing things you regret are not inherently bad. they're inherently human."

humanity is not defined by only its good parts.

III. Other Motives

of course, to boil Taryn's behaviour down to pure jealousy is reductive. there are many things at play. but her envy is the thing Taryn is probably most aware of, so it's the reason she gives us.

i go more into other things that made Taryn act the way she did in this post. though i do think jealousy played a big part in her motives, age and survival instinct also played a role.

IV. In Conclusion

The Lost Sister holds up the mirror, forces us to see a reflection that is maybe not so likeable or pretty, and hopefully gets us to practice compassion—not only toward Taryn, but toward ourselves and others.

–Em 🖤🗡

In Defence of Taryn Duarte- Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

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[slightlyrebelliouswriter23]

Listen I didn't come here to fight about Taryn but one thought that has never changed about her to me is that she had BALLS in QoN. Like going to your emotion-processing-inept sister after you've caused her a few huge emotional turmoils that resulted in about 5 different emotions she never needed yet are now somehow part of her daily punching bag routine is slightly admirable and disturbing but also slightly impressive

i mean yeah! i won't deny that Taryn in QON is, at the very least, exceedingly ignorant of the way her actions affected Jude. i'm not sure it was a conscious course of action on her part, though.

i wouldn't say she "knew exactly what she did and asked for Jude's help anyway". i would say, between Jude's emotion-processing deficit, Taryn's survival instincts, and both of their inability to share their lives/feelings with one another, it's a hell of a convoluted situation that we can't expect Taryn to be able to parse out all by herself.

i expect Taryn knew what she did might've hurt Jude, but not the extent to which it did. i also feel Taryn likely felt justified in her actions–people who do things that hurt others almost never see their deeds as something done deliberately with malicious intent. they say to themselves "well yeah i feel bad that this person was collateral, but i had to do it". the ego has a funny way of justifying things to itself.

as well as this, sibling bonds transcend all sorts of fights and betrayals all the time. in this way, the sibling dynamic between Jude and Taryn is actually extremely realistic. if you have a sibling, you probably know all about hating them one moment, screaming and fighting with them–but then two hours later, watching a movie together like nothing ever happened.

yes, Taryn pushed the boundaries of their sibling bond. multiple times. but at the end of the day, in QON, she found herself in a situation that had just one solution. and Jude helped her because she knew the situation transcended everything else between them. Taryn needed help, and she went to the only family member she knew could help her.

if she doesn't have the biggest balls in all of Elfhame for that, she at least had to humble herself a great deal by going to Jude. it means she had to face what she did, face Jude in all her anger and hurt, and know that she'd caused it. obviously, that doesn't totally exonerate her. but having the ability to divest oneself of pride/ego, to actually look in the mirror and see oneself, is a rare quality.

–Em 🖤🗡

more on Taryn

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