#pragmatic take

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

i'm starting to wonder if maedhros either a). didn't know about celegorm and curufin's assault of luthien, or b). never actually sent communication to doriath demanding the silmaril, with celegorm and curufin being the main ones behind it instead. yes fandom has soured me toward the character, but i don't think he's meant to be taken as enough of a sheer moron to expect cooperation from a kingdom after his brothers tried to rape their princess. nor do i think he's written unsympathetically enough for tolkien's intent to have been to make him a rape enabler/apologist who genuinely doesn't care about celegorm and curufin assaulting a woman -- so either c&c lied about what they did and he took whatever version they told him at face value, or he never actually gave his approval for whatever letter was sent to doriath. and the silm does say "maedhros and his brothers had before sent to thingol" and that "maedhros made no answer" after thingol refused the feanorians' demands, which to me is as good as confirmation that maedhros was involved in the exchange. so maybe celegorm and curufin really did keep the true story from him. ...or maybe fandom's fixation on maedhros being some long suffering goodie two shoes is still skewing my perception of him without my realizing and he actually is the kind of person to brush off celegorm and curufin's rape attempt

[serpentface]

Faiza performing the Kagnoma Odo (pretty literally 'lion dance'), a weapons dance and one of the more important ritual duties of Odonii priestesses. A relatively new addition to this traditional dance involves the musket as the primary weapon, which is fired mid-twirl into the ground at the climax of the dance. Faiza is experiencing an 'oh fuck' moment because her shot is more than ideally diagonal, but she’s being so cool with it.

This is a wholly ceremonial performance at the onset of the pilgrimage, performed in full regalia and lion skin (of the small, semi-domesticated strain) but no armor. It’s also distinctly a display of political allegiance between the powerful and beloved Odonii priesthood (and its loyal military) with the increasingly reviled and destabilized imperial family, with Faiza prominently wearing a bracelet of the royal serpent, which was gifted (along with the musket) by the usoma Stavis Amanti himself (Usoma is the Wardi word for king, which has been retained in the context of emperors).

The Kagnoma Odo is the ultimate demonstration of the Odonii as an embodiment of the Lion Face of God and living vessel of military might and sovereignty, demonstrating her fitness and proficiency with weapons and as a spiritual unifier for soldiers. It is accompanied by drumming and occurs in stages, running through the three keymost weapons used in war- the spear, the sword, and the musket. The musket is of the most significance, given the weapon has developed a particular esteem as the ultimate embodiment of might and superiority. Assistants (almost always other priestesses, occasionally high ranking soldiers) load and prime the musket to be fired at the climax of the dance, where it is shot into the ground as the priestess leaps out of range of the shot. The firing signals the end of the dance and the rite itself.

While not the utmost exemplar of trigger discipline, only fully inducted and senior (and therefore very thoroughly trained) Odonii are permitted to perform the dance, and injuries during actual performances are quite rare (though are known to occur during training, more than a few Odonii have burns and wounds on their feet).

The most important renditions of this dance are performed upon declarations of war and before battles (in this case, generally done in full armor along with the lion pelt). It is also done during some trainings (while a dance, it is carefully choreographed to include naturalistic maneuvers of the weapons involved and helps soldiers limber up and learn to move their weapons). It is regarded as an impressive and motivating sight and a morale booster, and, seen at a distance, potentially intimidating to enemies.

A special variant of this dance is performed as means of fully incarnating the Odomache, which is done in full nudity with the body covered in the blood of the freshly sacrificed lion and cloaked in its raw pelt (the lion has become the corpse of Odomache in the moment of death, as part of its recreation of God's sacrifice). Her public, full nude appearance once (and only once) in this act is what allows the Lion Face of God to incarnate within her. Those in attendance see the spiritually vulnerable, naked human body obscured with the sanctified and deified blood and cloaked in the sanctified and deified skin. It is a merger of the contradictions of mortality and divinity, the boundaries between the two indistinct in flickering firelight and the flash of musketfire. She is witnessed by her people, dangling in between humanity and divinity and leading them in dance, and and is thus transformed.

[elsannej]

Guy, age 21, studying for his first ever special ed class (circa 2008)

Guy "teacher student" Gardner posting

AKA me projecting my entire educational journey on him at this point

[whetstonefires]

You know I'm realizing one reason you keep seeing mdzs modern AUs where the Jiang parents are alive mainly so they can dramatically fail and betray Wei Wuxian by cutting him off financially--defaulting on his college tuition or formally disowning him etc--isn't just that people want to translate the Burial Mounds II arc into modern terms while keeping Jiang Cheng clean of it.

(Despite the fact that the internal logic of Jiang Cheng's character is largely built around him being a person who would abandon someone he intensely cared about under these specific circumstances.)

It's because it's hard to set up a modern analogue for the way that Jiang Cheng is responsible for Wei Wuxian, as his Sect Leader.

We live in a highly individualistic society. People are trying to write Wei Wuxian Tragically Wronged, and because there's a normative expectation that people in the position of parents will provide you with resources, and certainly won't withdraw them without warning, but no such assumption that people in the position of siblings necessarily owe each other support, making this work in modern setting with Jiang Cheng in his canon role would require a lot of extra work, just to get a less readily resonant result.

But I keep thinking about it. Because something that's getting lost here is, not just the nuances of character and relationship, but like...it's sort of key to the story that cutting Wei Wuxian off was, in fact, Completely Socially Appropriate.

The level on which it was a betrayal is subtle, and deeply cutting. And intensely tied up in the very different opinions each of Jiang Cheng's parents had about what obligations existed in their family wrt Wei Wuxian, and what these meant.

The level on which it was the obvious, normal course of action is blatant. That is to a huge extent why it happens: because Jiang Cheng's instinct to conform is a survival instinct, reinforced by trauma, and Wei Wuxian's choices meant he had no coherently compelling reason not to obey it, and enormous peer pressure to do so.

The fact is that Jiang Cheng was making a reasonable choice, the actual thing 'anyone would do in that situation,' unlike Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao's respective wildly warped ideas about what that is.

Wei Wuxian wasn't betrayed by Jiang Sect like your foster parents cutting you off because you're disobedient. Wei Wuxian was betrayed by Jiang Sect like your brother refusing to drop fifty grand to bail you out of jail.

Of course Wei Wuxian tells him not to. And of course the fact that Jiang Cheng already chose in the moment not to pay a cent because Fuck You Wei Ying still stands there glaring, a precedent that can never be taken back.

And then later he's betrayed by Jiang Cheng like your brother cooperating with a police investigation into a manslaughter you really did commit, that's being handled like domestic terrorism. And then like your brother calling the cops on you. And then like your brother helping the cops find where you're hiding.

I'm personally fascinated by the way Jiang Cheng's lifelong resentment for the way Jiang Fengmian reliably bailed Wei Wuxian out of everything informed those decisions to do the normal thing, the way he's reacting against his dead father as well as against Wei Wuxian and the actual situation.

But even without that daddy issues angle, the fact that the person who made that choice was Jiang Cheng, and that it was simultaneously the reasonable appropriate normal upstanding citizen rational thing to do and so shitty Wei Wuxian would be entitled never to forgive it is sort of. The Point.

Of the scenario, and also to a considerable degree of the entire finely tuned narrative construct that is Jiang Cheng.

[qiu-yan]

thoughts

also wasn't sure what to do with the lan simp brothers so i guess they can sit on the side

[skitskatdacat63]

"We are not the easiest opponent for everybody else, let's put it that way."

[midnight1404]

Osha glanced around as Father's guardsmen appeared from beneath the trees, steel in hand. She threw down her spear. "Mercy, m'lord," she called to Robb.

(...)

Robb walked over to her. She was a head taller than he was, but she dropped to her knees at his approach. "Give me my life, m'lord of Stark, and I am yours." "Mine? What would I do with an oathbreaker?" "I broke no oaths. Stiv and Wallen flew down off the Wall, not me. The black crows got no place for women." (...)

"Do you have a name?" Robb asked her. "Osha, as it please the lord," she muttered sourly. Maester Luwin stood. "We might do well to question her." Bran could see the relief on his brother's face. "As you say, Maester. Wayn, bind her hands. She'll come back to Winterfell with us … and live or die by the truths she gives us."

Agot, Bran V

"A pity," Catelyn said coldly. "Kill him, Robb," Theon Greyjoy urged. "Take his head off." "No," her son answered, peeling off his bloody glove. "He's more use alive than dead. And my lord father never condoned the murder of prisoners after a battle."

Agot, Catelyn X

One of the captives dropped to his knees. "Mercy, sire. I killed no one, I only stood at the door to watch for guards." Robb considered that a moment. "Did you know what Lord Rickard intended? Did you see the knives drawn? Did you hear the shouts, the screams, the cries for mercy?" "Aye, I did, but I took no part. I was only the watcher, I swear it . . ." "Lord Umber," said Robb, "this one was only the watcher. Hang him last, so he may watch the others die. Mother, Uncle, with me, if you please."

(...)

(...)How did it all get so confused? Lord Rickard's fought at my side in half a dozen battles. His sons died for me in the Whispering Wood. Tion Frey and Willem Lannister were my enemies. Yet now I have to kill my dead friends' father for their sakes." He looked at them all. "Will the Lannisters thank me for Lord Rickard's head? Will the Freys?" "No," said Brynden Blackfish, blunt as ever. "All the more reason to spare Lord Rickard's life and keep him hostage," Edmure urged. Robb reached down with both hands, lifted the heavy bronze-and-iron crown, and set it back atop his head, and suddenly he was a king again. "Lord Rickard dies." "But why?" said Edmure. "You said yourself—" "I know what I said, Uncle. It does not change what I must do." The swords in his crown stood stark and black against his brow. "In battle I might have slain Tion and Willem myself, but this was no battle. They were asleep in their beds, naked and unarmed, in a cell where I put them. Rickard Karstark killed more than a Frey and a Lannister. He killed my honor. I shall deal with him at dawn."

Asos, Catelyn III

Robb + judging between life or death (where finds the balance between severance and mercy)

[dykedvonte]

Why do you think did Curly let Jimmy go before the crash? I've seen the theory Curly briefly thought about crashing too but didn't expect Jimmy to go through with it

I generally believe it was shock and a bit of denial.

It’s the sort of thing where Curly knew Jimmy enough to know he blows up at things but he never would’ve expected him to go through with something so crazy. He gives Jimmy way too much benefit. It’s just his nature and the dynamics he has with Jimmy. They have a stable relationship as friends but it’s stabilized by the unhealthy toxic aspects that keep him in it. He’s like this with Anya, taking the gun is something he really shouldn’t have kept off the record, so is Swansea’s feigned hostility toward Daisuke. He doesn’t want to get people in trouble and doesn’t want to believe anyone would cause trouble other than to themselves. He’s a very lenient man.

I think the words were hollow in his head. Said but not really meant like all the times Jimmy lashes out and says something cruel to him or others. He never means it, if he did why would he still be Curly’s friend? Curly’s head wasn’t in the right space in that moment, he just got through panicking with Anya and if the sound design is anything to go by, was panicked and preoccupied going to confront Jimmy. I mean, the flash of the warning signs before he runs back are identical to the dissociative episode of sort he has when going to talk to Jimmy to do his Psyc eval.

There is this sort of assumption in fanon that Curly was the idealic person for the job and simply failed. None of them were the idealic people to be there, it’s Curly’s entire concern with the ladder he chose. I see more interpretations of him being purposefully ignorant where I see him as just always looking the wrong way or not in a place where he can see it. There’s something different about seeing something than being told about it in the human mind. It may just be the psych student in me but Curly def has some sort of cognitive dissonance just like Jimmy but when it comes to his role as a Captain vs who he is.

They blur in his head to where if you ask him if he was acting as a Captain or a friend or himself to his crew he couldn’t answer. Not with confidence even if he did. There are many times we see that Curly himself is not in the right headspace to lead the Tulpar and that’s outside of anything with Jimmy. He’s spacey, he’s not sleeping, he’s deeply unhappy with himself and life. It’s why there’s believability he crashed the ship. Maybe the others saw it, or maybe Jimmy heard enough of it to spin it in a way that made Curly seem suicidally depressed.

So the tdlr is I think it wasn’t so much letting Jimmy go, more so not seeing the severity of what he was allowing to transpire. In his mind it’s just another one of Jimmy’s bluffs, cruel words, off words but just words. Jimmy rarely ever acts, why would he now? Maybe he’s never seen it because Jimmy hides those actions? Either way, he just never thought he’d really do it.

[librarydilf]

this is one of those 'he would not fucking say that' moments for Alec, which is tragic because this is one of my FAVORITE possible solrook interactions. zero denial. apologizes and then keeps doing the same fucking thing. DELICIOUS!!

[novelconcepts]

In watching more interviews with Liv about Van and the escalation of Van's pragmatism to such dark degrees, I find myself genuinely baffled that anyone could ever think Van the bad guy. I mean, I'm perplexed at finding ANY of these girls The Bad Guy. The bad guy is the situation. It's being lost. It's freezing. It's starving. It's being scraped down to the barest bone of being alive. They make choices that might be snippy, or cruel, or hard-headed, sure--Shauna refusing to just hash it out with Jackie; Jackie being too stubborn to come inside; Taissa refusing to discuss her situation plainly; etc--but by the time we reach the end of season 2, it doesn't even matter. Petty bullshit doesn't matter. Jealousy doesn't matter. Those things are still going to be present and complicated, because--for all their choices, for all the distancing they're trying to do--these kids ARE still human beings. But it isn't the point.

The point is survival. Plain, simple, straightforward. Van's pragmatism is survival. It is the difference between living another day with blood on your teeth or dying pretty. It is the difference between fighting forward through the fire and the snow and the hell of it all, and laying down to die. Van knowing, in watching the ritual violence of Shauna beating Lottie nearly the death, that they will be killing and eating one another soon. Van coming up with the cards for the hunt. Van not blinking when the moment comes, Van choosing a weapon that doubles as a tool to bring the body back, Van refusing to apologize for staying alive--it's not evil. It's not Bad Guy behavior. It's purely about survival, because there is nothing else left to her--or to any of them. They can play the pretty little Sweet Angel Girl game and die, or they can get dirty, bloody, horrific and fight. Van chooses the fight. Van chooses to fight for herself, for her lover, for her team, even knowing not everyone is going to make it out...because the alternate path there is that no one makes it out. Van knew the baby wouldn't live. Van knows the rest of them won't, either. Not unless they start making the hard choices.

And, honestly, the fact that Van sees this narrative coming. Comes up with this plan. Brings out the cards. To me, that is the opposite of Bad Behavior. That is as close to justice as anyone can find in the wilderness. If someone else came up with an idea, maybe it would have come down to voting--but that would have had such a human element to it, with bitterness or hostility or whatever ultimately petty shit always comes of humans selecting who to Other. The cards don't leave room for that. It isn't fair, because the situation isn't fair, because Man vs. Nature isn't fair, but it's as close to a just system as they could possibly find. It's the kindest solution to an unwinnable game. Not to bring it back to American Gods again, but all I can think is "it's easy, there's a trick to it: you do it, or you die." Van gave them that.

[greenqueenhightower]

I would like your opinion on Rhaenyra's hubris and her portrayal as a godlike figure of authority. I am thinking of Shakespeare (King Lear) and ancient Greek tragedy. Any parallels?

I really do hope you see this analysis, anon from the past, because I squeezed my brain trying to get all this together 💚:

First of all, I think we have to make an important distinction between Shakespeare and ancient Greek tragedy. One can argue, of course, that Shakespeare's plays were influenced by certain elements of ancient Greek tragedy, but there are several differences; the kind of hero in question being a primary one. In ancient Greek tragedies such as Oedipus Rex, Antigone, or Medea, the hero is of noble birth and standing, and their hubris is a result of their own excessive pride combined with their ambitious attempt to challenge the gods and claim some godship for themselves.

Shakespeare's plays are a bit more ambiguous in classifying the hubris. The hero can be of noble birth, sure, but their flaw is in themselves and their defiance of tradition or society’s laws. God or the divine is not featured, challenged, contested, or attacked in any way by their morally ambiguous choices, or at least not to the extent that it is in ancient Greek tragedies. Hubris in Shakespeare's tragedies stems from the debilitating flaws a hero has, which prevent them from making wise, sound, and moral decisions, ultimately leading to their demise. Thus, their "fall" is a natural consequence of their own decisions, unrelated to any claim of godship, and not imposed on them as a punishment by some higher order, as would be the case in an ancient Greek tragedy.

Rhaenyra could be framed as a Shakespearean heroine (if someone has done a similar analysis, please link it below), but the fact that she assumes this godlike status and will soon defy all else for the sake of it screams more ancient Greek hubris than a flawed Shakespearean character to me.

(1) So, breaking her hubris apart, we find excessive pride in her teenage years: even if it becomes apparent that the realm will not concede to having a female ruler that easily, Rhaenyra's overconfidence in her heirdom, and her complete trust that her father's words alone are enough to guarantee her the throne, could be classified as excessive pride. Nevertheless, no one is too noble, and no one ever holds such an unshakable and undeniable claim to the Iron Throne. One must always be on the lookout, forge alliances, and marry into powerful houses, instead of solely relying on blood ties & prophecies.

(2) This display of excessive pride is intertwined with her personality: Rhaenyra flaunts her freedom and disregards courtly protocol, as seen by her choice of lovers. Underestimating the degree of damage her children's parentage can have on her claim, and believing that she can ride out scandal without consequence, is a kind of hubris, and that is why pious and religious Alicent almost screams "blasphemy!" and becomes absolutely deranged when Rhaenyra seems to be getting away with every. single. thing. while she plays by the book (10/10 scene, Driftmark is the gift that keeps on giving).

(3) Rhaenyra's overconfidence in herself or in whatever teenage and childhood bond she shared with Alicent is further feeding on her pride, as she remains so willfully blinded to the Greens' desires and Alicent's own political acumen and willpower.

(4) The peak display of excessive pride, however, has to be Rhaenyra's decision to send her two sons, Lucerys and Jacaerys, as envoys, believing that her reputation and her army of dragons alone will command her respect, safety, and control.

(5) Furthermore, Rhaenyra's hubris is evident in her claim of godship throughout the series as the true heir bearing "the blood of the dragon." Rhaenyra's bloodline is sacred, descended from old Valyria, and that should be enough to validate her claim to the throne, regardless of the massive political risk. Her bond with Syrax (explored in the books in greater detail) further confirms this claim of godship.

(6) Another example of her grasp of divine destiny is her unwavering belief in Aegon's Dream: Viserys' prophecy that she is the Targaryen destined to sit the Iron Throne to safeguard the realm from evil, a prophecy which she takes upon herself to fulfill, even though it isn't attributed to her at that moment or timeline.

(7) Lastly, the way she views Aegon II's crowning not only as a personal challenge but as a contention against fate, confirms both her excessive pride as well as her claim of godship: only Rhaenyra's bloodline can be sacred, and not Aegon's, and she alone can be the heir whose rule is divinely ordained and on whose figure prophecy is fulfilled.

Overall, I would say that Rhaenyra is very much an ancient Greek tragic heroine who displays hubris through her overreliance on her noble birth and godlike status, as well as her excessive pride, which inevitably blinds her to the shifting political winds. Just like any other ancient Greek tragic hero, Rhaenyra is plagued by her own divine ambition and reaps the consequences of her own actions. What I cannot be sure of at the moment is the divine punishment that should follow according to the ancient Greek tragedy model, since I would not categorize Rhaenyra's end as such as per the books.

The above analysis confirms -to me at least- that Rhaenyra is such a complex and well-written character worth studying, loving, and analyzing. I enjoyed writing this and will probably look for more hints of hubris in the future. If that's something you'd like to see, you're welcome to give me ideas. Take this analysis with a grain of salt, and if you don't agree with it, that's ok too.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

The little bow of reflection and smile Ray makes as he briefly soaks in the last morning Emma and Norman will be able to carry out their routine as usual knowing the horror they'll endure before night's end.

He knows they'd both prefer the harsh truth over a pretty lie, would hate to think about other siblings suffering the same fate as Conny, Hao, Sadie, Susan, and so many more before them if there was even the slightest chance of being able to do something about it. It's part of what he loves about them; where he had the tendency to give up after years of learned helplessness and self-loathing, they would resolutely say "no" and escape the system they had been born into.

(they are better, they are deserving, unlike him)

He loves them so much he can't help but let some of his fondness show on his face as he savors Emma's reaction to seeing him and Norman, because if that isn't so incredibly her, to love so effortlessly and uninhibited, to live so unabashedly authentic.

It's part of what got him through a life he cursed and part of why he has faith if anyone will be able to do this, it'll be them.

[astralleywright]

something something Orym being careful with Ashton and so keyed in to their pain on like, a physical level, even in Ashton's normal state when he's projecting an air of roughness and invulnerability, when he's angry and violent. "i'm not gonna let [Ash] go off alone." goading the Bari Mondolo when Ashton was right there and wanted to take the hit. always asking before touching them and doing so softly, even when Ashton says that they'd rather it be rough (but also massaging his hands; "it's good pain".) putting lavender in his lapel and cleaning his bloody nose, and Ashton's quiet, surprised, "thank you," when they realized what Orym had done. kind of crazy tbh

[fiannans]

RIP to Illario's freedom I guess, but I vastly prefer Lucanis' Crow's Tenacity armour to his Crow's Poise version. Sorry Illario.

[impossiblyatomictiger-blog]

I thought for like two seconds: the politics of Arcane suck, don't they?

Like, it's all about the cycle of violence, which is fair when it comes to the personal relationships, but becomes fucked with Jinx and Caitlyn in particular, as it is a microcosm of the Zaun-Piltover thing.

Like, Piltover has economic power over Zaun, what with its control of international trade, explicit ownership of Zaun's resources and many of its factories, and enforces that power through the Enforcers. While I do think that while Jinx's political strategy is non-existant, this oppression and exploitation needs to end, and non-violent reform will only perpetuate the system. While a peaceable revolution would be nice, the only real independance would seperate Piltover's richest from a lot of their wealth.

A similar thing is shown in how Jinx treats Caitlyn vs. how Caitlyn responds to Jinx. Jinx is a personal scale villain, kidnapping her and killing her mom; she resembles the stereotypical anarchist terrorist, but she chooses her targets much more carefully than that (or, at least, Silco does).

Caitlyn's response: take advantage of her status to restart the explicit subjugation of Zaun with the enforcers, and to gas them. Y'know, fascist stuff. Not a long walk from reformist to fascist, since being a reformist doesn't require you to think too hard about the system and how it doesn't work, and thus your biases remain unexamined.

The cycle of violence in the context of Jinx vs Caitlyn, and Zaun vs Piltover, suggests somehow that the relationships are even, that Zaun hurts Piltover, Piltover hurts Zaun, back and forth forever. Wonder what real world conflicts resemble this narrative, that they hit first, so we have the right to self defense even though we have all the power in this situation.

I really like Jinx as a character, I just want a fic that gives her coherent and actionable politics instead of the terrorist framing.

[lunarriviera]

[insp.]