#politicaljon

[sherlokiness]

let's say jonsa was really GRRM's ace,then what's up with jonerys in the show? Most people consider them the endgame romance with the bittersweet end which for the life of me cannot see where was the sweetness unless it was that boatsex.

How can jon dany ship exists with jonsa? How do you think it will go down in the books if jonerys was inevitable?

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask.

Ref: This post.

Aegony is compatible with jonsa bc there is politicalJon. We just have to tweak some things but what we can be sure about 100% in the books is that Jon will betray Dany.

Why will jd break up in the books? Well, for sure it's not bc Jon is repulsed by incest with his aunt. There is no reason in Planetos for Jon to break up with Dany if he loved her bc of "incest" bc it's not really incest. See:Jonnel/Sansa. Aegony is not a forbidden romance!!!! They weren't raised together as a brother/sister for Jon to possibly get an ick.

Why not a love triangle? Jon is ice and fire so his lady loves are also ice and fire. Also if we count J and S, R and L, who have had secret weddings, there was always a scorned woman in the equation. Baela, Elia, and then Dany. The pattern will hold true for Jon and Sansa as well. JD never got married in the show bc there will be no reason for it to happen in the books. When will hell break loose? The rlj reveal. Dany who claims to be the righful heir of the 7k will never let Rhaegar's trueborn son go. She would want to marry him if silencing him doesn't work but Jon would refuse bc he secretly loves another.

She lights KL on fire. Jon kills her. It's good that Dany burns KL imo bc then Jon would have the moral high ground in getting rid of a tyrant. He gets "rewarded" by King Bran for his deed with Sansa's hand in marriage. Alas, it turns out that tyrant coincidentally was in the way of true love. I'm *sure* Jon will betray his auntie/lover bc of her threat to Sansa. Dany's last treason is FOR LOVE. If it's really for love of family like in the show, wouldn't the last treason be more accurate as FOR BLOOD? Jon's cousins are of his blood.

Jon will be a hero(righteous cause) and also get the girl. He gets to have his cake and eat it too. A bittersweet cake where the bitter part comes from Dany and the sweet part, well... In conclusion, Jon will have a justification for betraying D but his motivation would be questioned by the readers bc of the prophecy.

[jonlovessansa]

Sansa...

[fangirlsfancyfandoms]

If its not political jon then explain this

the very same episode that showed us a passive jon when dany threatened Sansa also showed us a jon where he asks sansa to have faith in HIM. Not dany. In him. This means Jon hasn't forgotten about his promise to protect Sansa. He knows what he's doing but just needs her faith.

Sounds to me like Jon stayed silent for a reason and its not dany love

[princessjasminetargaryen]

When they gotta have Daenerys herself confirm political Jon.

[julibf]

BREAD CRUMBS OF A BETRAYAL........

Tyrion Lannister explaining to the audience how smart he is. A few season later, he will be blindised by Shae’s betrayal. He took Shae to Kings Landing and made her his mistress believing her to be harmless. He never thought she could sell him in the trial or have an affair with his own father..... oops.

Tyrion Lannister explaining to Daenerys why she should invite Jon Snow to Dragonstone. He STILL believes he is a great judge of character. Some characters in this story will never learn with their mistakes.....

[greenseerxofgondor]

Confession time

I do prefer the Political!Jon interpretation to season 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones because it removes his emotional and sexual culpability but I still need to bring up two issues that have bothered me: 

1. Jon expresses doubt that Dany is actually barren and goes to town with her anyway. He could have very easily and unintentionally got her pregnant. 

2. What was Jon’s plan once the Dead were defeated? Was he hoping that Daenerys would graciously bow out and let him live in the North? By that time she was his and she would not let him go. 

That being said, I still adore the idea of a politically astute Jon who would do anything to save his family. 

[ladyperluskalstrkme]

Y si no hay politico Jon?.

Ayer estuve charlando con unas amigas mías seguidoras tanto de los libros y de la serie sobre el comportamiento de Jon en este primer capitulo y desde entonces me ha entrado la sospecha de que el Jon político no existe, simplemente Jon siente algo por Daeneys y es un hecho que perfectamente puede estar ahí y sea una realidad por mucho que nos duela.

Esta mañana esta idea se ha hecho mas fuerte en mi cabeza al leer un hilo en  FF donde alguien que no es Jonsa planteaba la posibilidad de que esta corriente que seguimos es posible tanto en libro como en serie. Como siempre han saltado y han entrado los seguidores del Joneryce a despotricar y a echar pestes en el hilo y uno en concreto le ha dicho lo de siempre, lo que siempre alegan, que Jon esta enamorado de Daeneys y no de Sansa y la respuesta de este usuario me ha dado la clave de todo esto:

“De hecho, según mi teoría / análisis de la serie, Jon ya está enamorado de Sansa. Pero como él piensa que es su hermana, vive su vida. Puedes estar enamorado de dos mujeres al mismo tiempo.Es un poco como Edipo. Le dijeron que dormiría con su madre, así que huyó de su ciudad y se casó con una reina. Excepto que en realidad esta mujer era su verdadera madre.Jon, tratando de huir del incesto, lo cometerá con Daenerys”.

Este comentario de este usuario me ha recordado las grandes similitudes que ya explique en otro ensayo sobre Canción de hielo y fuego y la Iliada y la Odisea y siempre he pensado que cuando Jon descubra su verdadero origen va a ser algo así como en la tragedia de Edipo, pero con la diferencia de que en vez de estar acostándose con su madre lo esta haciendo con su tía, que ha estado huyendo del incesto con su hermana y ha caído de lleno en el con su tía.

Ademas para apoyar esta idea que me asalta es la clara decepción que siente Arya al reencontrarse con Jon, que ya empieza desde que llegan a Invernalia y Arya ve con tristeza que no se fija en ella porque esta mas pendiente de hacer caso a la dragona y que después viene ya verbalizada en las palabras de Arya al hablar con el en el arciano donde le dice que no olvide que es un Stark.

Pero a Jon creo que se le va a empezar a caer la venda de los ojos con su tía Targaryen en cuanto empiece a descubrir lo que realmente es y lo que es capaz de hacer si alguien le lleva la contraria y se le enfrenta que creo que ya ha empezado con esa amenaza de la dragona a Sansa y cuando Sam le cuenta lo que es realmente Daenerys y lo que hizo con su padre y con su hermano. Ademas corre un spoiler del tercer capitulo por ahí que corrobora un poco mas todo esto y del que solo contare que Daenerys va a intentar “dañar” a Jon e incluso puede que antes ya lo haya intentado con algún ser querido de Jon.

En resumidas cuentas, creo muy posible que Jon si que sienta algo por Daenerys, no hace falta que sea un amor profundo, puede ser simplemente sexo, algo así a lo que sentía Ulises por la diosa Calipso antes de descubrir que con quería estar era con su esposa Penelope con los que guardan mucha similitud en la serie Sansa y Jon, los Ulises y Penelope de esta historia. Que Jon va a descubrir con horror y tristeza lo que es en realidad esa mujer y descubra que a quien ama es a la que siempre ha estado ahí, a Sansa, cuando se le caiga esa venda de los ojos con su tía, “el pequeño monstruo”. De hecho creo que Jon ya ha descubierto con la escena en la cámara de Sansa que ella esta enamorada de el y esta celosa ademas, cuando e pregunta porque ha doblado la rodilla.

No se como se desencadenara el Jonsa, pero tengo la sospecha de que los señores del norte van a pedir el matrimonio entre Jon y Sansa en cuanto sepan quien es Jon, ya que creo que es un matrimonio muy ventajoso ahora para ellos al casar a la señora de Invernalia que cuenta tambien con el apoyo de los hombres del valle y de la tierra de los ríos muy probablemente por su parte Tully con el rey de Los siete reinos ahora que Daenerys no es NADIE. Que sea una especie de matrimonio político como lo fue el de Ned y Catelyn pero ya con un sentimiento por parte de los actuales contrayentes, que ademas tienen tambien una guerra en ciernes lo mismo que Eddard y Cat y quien nos dice si Sansa no se queda embarazada en esa noche de bodas y este embarazada cuando sea secuestrada por Cersei...Pero eso ya es otra historia.

Como siempre digo, nos queda muy poco para saberlo. 

[undeadmanbun]

"Regards to the earlier post: 1st scene of season 8 - Tyrion and DT are discussing her new romance.  Tyrion tells her Jon’s in love with her.  She states Jon’s too little for her.  (Wonder what the audience reaction would be then - or if she has another girl talk scene with Missandei, and laments that Jon didn’t put in a lot of effort, or she had to fake it)" via @fochlucan

I'm not convinced they will be quite so repetitive but I was chatting about this earlier and how they might do a scene to establish what actually happened and this season 5 scene sprang to mind:

Compare it to this from the original episode outline for S7E07:

“[s]he has some things she’d like to discuss with Jon later, privately"

Links to the article I got this from that talks more about this topic here

I do have to wonder if they'll clarify who actually came to who here, it seems too similar to amount to nothing. It would certainly leave no doubt about who wanted what.

[fan64625]

Fandon Confusion (again...)

Oooooookay, I’m confused again. So, in the light of the new interviews that I keep seeing and updates from the HBO site I came across the term ‘political!jon’, which was new to me. I did some research. I read a few meta’s. I fell of my chair. (Kidding.) Seriously though, I have some questions and thought I would just ask them here.  Let me first state that in general, I think almost anything is possible in the world of GOT so I would never state that I would be ‘100% sure of anything (not) happening. I tried to get answers by reading around in the ‘politicaljon’ tag, but somehow, I got a bit overwhelmed by all kinds of ‘evidence’ that was a bit lost on me.  What I get is this: the theory states, that Jon is actually NOT in love with Dany, but pretending to be so, securing her help with the Whitewalkers without ‘giving up the north’. So far I get the theory. I also get that it makes sense for people to believe in it when they want him to end up with Sansa, because him banging Dany out of love it kind of getting in the way of that.  My honest question would be: how would he continue this political play? I’m seriously baffled, because he already had danys help, so what would be the deal? What happens when the Nightking is defeated, they survive, and he goes: oh by the way, I don’t love you, I’m still KINT, bye bye? Did he think this through? How will dany react? Or does he want to be King of all the kingdoms? Will he actually fight dany? After she helped him defend the North and the realm? Does he want Cersei to be queen? Will he start a war over northern independence? I’m so confused.   Obviously, I wouldn’t want him to hurt Dany like that - but more then that, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t give an actual fuck about the North being independent. He wants the North and the Starks and Winterfell to be save, yes, but why independent? What’s the advantage of that?  Again, these are honest questions and confusions, meant only as light critisism. Feel free to enlighten me! 

[jonsatrashcan]

Season 7- J and D in a nutshell:

Jon: Forget Cersi. TAOTD are coming. Help me fight the Night King.

Dany: I'm here to take back Westeross from Cersi. So no. Bend the knee and help me with my thing though.

Jon: there's no time for that. Seriously.....FORGET CERSI TAOTD ARE COMING.

Dany: If you don't bend the knee you are a rebel. You don't expect me to let Cersi keep the iron throne do you?

Jon: the fuck is this girl talking About? Whatever, I don't care about that shit. TAOTD ARE COMING. And you're still talking about titles? Come check out these cave paintings that show I'm telling the truth.

Dany: oh yeah I'm kinda seeing what you're saying. These pictures do look scary. But I can't stop what I've been doing for 6 seasons. Not when I'm this close. I want to help. But I can't unless I can have your support. C'mon. I'm only asking you to give up your ancestorial home so I can have mine.

Jon: Are we still talking about this?....

Dany: excuse me for a moment while I go burn 1000s of people alive. But when I come back. We can talk more about that kneeling thing.

Jon: I don't think doing what your ancestors did is the best way to get people to........

Dany: k byeeeeeeee.

Jon: oh your back. Cool you could have used all that gusto on TAOTD but whatever. How can I make this chick listen???? Wow she treats this jorah guy way better than tyrion. I wonder why? Oh look a letter from home. Hope it's good news. Sibling alive, yes that's good. TAOTD are STILL coming? No way! I gotta go. Unless you became rational all of the sudden and want to help?

dany: you can't leave. I've only just started to like you. For some reason that isn't really cinimatically or verbally explained.

Jon: oh but your hand just came up with a great idea to get me killed. So gotta go. K byeeeeee.....

Dany: you know what? I know I got 1000s of people to follow me. And everyone I love has litterally put their lives in my hands. And I refuse to put anyone in line for succession. But I just have this urg to put myself in harm's way by saving the people I sent into harm's way to begin with.

Jon: yesssss. Ok she's here she can blatantly see through this lame fucking story plot that TAOTD is the TRUE threat. Oh fuck did she just lose a dragon?! Well she's got to be committed now right? GO! GO! take the remaining 2 WMDs and fight another day. Guess I'm dying again. Oh well. But what's this? A Stark comming to my rescue yet again?

Dany: heeeeey. So I saw TAOTD and your right we will destroy them together.

Jon: fucking finally lady. Ok I'll help you too. I'll bend the knee. Since we did all that and we're already on our way to see Cersi. And we have like, no time before TAOTD get to the wall where my friends are. And winterfell where my family is. Let's just get this shit going shall we?

Dany: all I heard was I'll bend the knee. I love you too.

Jon: so check out my power point presentation on WW everbody. Will you help us crazy lady who helped kill most of my family? Oh yeah. It's an US now. I pledged to Dany. For some reason I have to tell you that right now and negate 2 episodes worth of effort and the death of a dragon. Anyways......will you help us? No?! Hmmmm didn't see that coming.

Dany: you're sweet but stupid. Why did we even come here?

Jon: you think I'm Sweet? Hmmmm acting like Jorah seems to be working. What else can I say to smooth over I just fucked up this cease fire? You're not like everyone else. Soooo I know Cersi said she won't help. But you already kind of said you would help us anyway. I mean before I bent the knee. And before we even asked Cersi you said you would help. Does that offer still stand?

Dany: yeah about that.......

Jon: oh for fucks sake.

[trinuviel]

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. "I know a story about a crow."

A Game of Thrones, Bran IV

[sherlokiness]

JD foreshadowings are sexual, not romantic and I think they will have a sexual relationship but I just cannot see Jon being into her

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask.

I do agree with you that's why I subscribe to PoliticalJon. I'm also thinking about one eye Jon clues and how it might relate to jonsa and aegony cause the only Jon who could possibly fall in love with Dany is a blind Jon. If I thought Dany was a hero then yes, I think Jon would sincerely fall for her bc what's not to love, right?

The catch is that Jon will voluntarily "blind" himself for love of Sansa so he could look at Dany with love which is what PolJon is. A blind Jon whose thoughts and actions seem consistent but irrational to those who are around him. An example of this is when Dany gave a dragon to the slave masters and Jorah and Co. couldn't believe how she could do that. It's simply not worth it! The audience was also tricked into believing it until the veil was revealed. Dany used tricks and deception to get herself an army then killed the masters. Nobody cared they died bc they were monsters and Dany was even hailed as a hero. What a freaking nice coincidence that Dany went there to buy slaves she couldn't afford and gained a slave army for free. She got to have the moral high ground and the army she sought to buy. She got to have her cake and eat it too.

I'm expecting Jon's true thoughts on Dany will be concealed by the author once he decides to be blind. Jon goes to Dany for her armies and dragons and in the process falls for her. There's Dany who was just spurned by Aegon for love of Arianne and hated by the people of KL all the while thinking her last treason is over. What a freaking nice coincidence that JD falling for each other gets what they need from each other. Dany gets the love she's denied while Jon gets the armies he initially sought.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist but this is what I'm imagining GRRM gave the hints to D&D. Like JD will have sex because of love but he didn't say for love of who? This is also why the show had JD break up and not marry bc of "incest" which is a forced and nonsensical reason bc no way in Planetos will Jon see having a relationship with his aunt as incest. It's not taboo in their world, rare but not forbidden. So in the books after RLJ, what will stop Jon from marrying his lover/auntie if he's not icked by supposed incest? Because he loves another.

To play Devil's advocate and in defense of Dark Dany, how could Jon still fall for her?

1) Jon seeing through Sansa's eyes mean he will be as blind as AGoT Sansa who fell in love with Joffrey even though he had red flags.He fell in love with a beautiful Queen who saved him and ignored her occasional lapses. Sansa paid that trust with Ned's head and Jon will pay with the people of King's Landing. Sansa was only 11 but what's Jon's excuse?🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

2) Jon truly falling for a villain Dany would make him dumb as fuck but Dany is not without her merits. If sweet and perfect baby Brienne can fall for someone like Jaime, why can't Jon fall for a monster like Dany? Maybe the bad things he heard about her are all just rumors and she had good reason to do them. He would know how rumors could get twisted.

3) Maybe the aegonys are right that the foreshadowings are romantic. They're negative which can be interpreted as them ending doomed but the romance is there. The wolf howling scene could also be interpreted in a way that Jon is begging her to stop but Dany's greed for the Iron Throne doesn't lessen which eventually leads to her death.

4) GRRM isn't that unconventional with tropes. There's the bastard/secret king trope, exiled princess,puppet boy king, and the pimp getting killed by a prostitute, etc. I think jonsas shouldn't be dismissive of tropes because our ship, in essence, is the tropiest of them all. It's a princess in a tower who marries the hero(her hero)who slayed the dragon and they lived "happily" ever after. Aegony ship is basic but there's the incest twist ig?

5) Jon comes back darker and doesn't care that much about the realm so he hooks up with a pyro Dany. Yolo basically. Why should he care about the opinions of others after being backstabbed by his brothers and sacrificing his honor for the realm?

6) Dany being lovers with Jon imo is the only way for the author to expose Dany's hypocrisy and greed for power. Dany will not give up the throne for love nor duty to Jon-her lover and righful King. I suspect Daario will be like Jorah, a scumbag who will sincerely fall for Dany, but she will leave him and the readers would justify it. Who cares? Well, once she usurps Jon, all her previous claims about giving up the crown for love will be shit. Words are wind.

[jonlovessansa]

EVERYTHING YOU DID BROUGHT YOU WHERE YOU ARE NOW, WHERE YOU BELONG... HOME.

[princessjasminetargaryen]

Sansa: You keep running into dangerous situations like a hero, but you’re gonna get yourself killed.  I know you’re trying to protect me, but please.  Please stop being an idiot!

Jon: Ok.

Sansa: Good.  Now excuse me.  I’m gonna go and tap dance on the Dragon Queen’s nerves.

Jon: ???

[ladyperluskalstrkme]

Me acabo de dar cuenta de que Jon y Sansa están actuando prácticamente igual en estas dos escenas 

[jonsatrashcan]

So let's talk about David Nutter. He is the director for episodes 1 and 2 of season 8. I think most agree the new promo will be from one of those episodes. He also directed episodes that pertain Jon and ygritte meeting/Jon killing halfhand and going undercover. Danny getting her dragons stolen by a suitor in quarth. Oh and a little episode called the red wedding.