#plotting vs pantsing

[tlbodine]

Stuck? Try junebugging.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but we're 5 days into nanowrimo so maybe this will be helpful.

Do you want the safety and surety of knowing what happens next in your story but can't stick to an outline? Does knowing in advance what will happen suck the joy out of discovery writing? Do you try to wing it through plots but get tangled in plot holes or have a story that runs out of steam because you can't figure out what went wrong? Are you at your most creative when you have a little bit of guidance? Do you tend to under-write? Do you get ideas in your head for random scenes and snippets that drop from the sky without context?

If any of these apply to you, junebugging a draft might be for you!

What Is Junebugging?

Since you're on Tumblr, you might already be familiar with the concept of junebugging as it relates to cleaning. If not -- I think the idea was first introduced to me by @jumpingjacktrash.

The basic idea is that you tackle cleaning by way of controlled chaos. You pick a specific area you want to focus on, like your kitchen sink, and then wander off to deal with other things as they occur to you, but always returning back to that area. You end up cleaning a little bit at a time in an order that may not make sense to an outsider but which keeps you from getting overwhelmed and discouraged.

How Does Junebugging Work in Writing?

OK, so that's great, but how does this work with writing? Well. In my case, the general idea is to jump between writing linearly, outlining, and writing out of order. It usually looks something like:

Start free-writing a scene, feeling my way through it and enjoying the discovery process.

Thinking, ok, now I have this scene, did anything need to happen to lead up to it? Do I need to go back and add some foreshadowing? Does this scene set anything up that needs to be paid off? And then jump forward/back to make those adjustments.

I'll usually have a bunch of disconnected ideas of ideas that have popped into my head, so I'll write those down in a list somewhere and then try to figure out what goes in between them and what order it goes in.

I'll write what I call "micro-scenes" which is where I'll just sketch out a few essential elements of what's going on without worrying too much about details, description, etc. -- just he did this, she said that, the setting was this, real bare-bones script. Then I can come back through and flesh out each of those microscenes into an actual scene later.

Got a story that has a complex structure? No problem. Write through each storyline one at a time and then chop them up and weave them together afterward. Write all the B plot scenes first then come back through to do A plot and C plot. Move the pieces around like legos. No one ever has to know.

This method works for me because I can't "decide" story elements in advance. I have never been able to just sit down and "figure out" what happens in a story beyond a couple steps ahead -- I have to discovery-write my way forward. But at the same time, that gets really daunting. So I zoom forward with micro-scenes, roughing out the beats in the most bare-bones way possible, then when I run out of clear vision for what happens next I backtrack, flesh out those scenes, build in connective tissue, etc. and by then I will probably find more inspiration to jump forward.

It's basically folding drafting, outlining, and revising all together into a single phase of writing, which is chaotic and goes against everything people teach you, but if it works? then it fuckin works.

Anyway, sorry for the jumbled-up post, I'm dashing this off quickly while I heat up a pizza and I'm about to dive back into my WIP -- but I hope this was a little helpful. If nothing else, take this as my blanket permission that it's 100% OK to jump around, write out of order, write messy, outline sometimes, pants sometimes, and do whatever else it takes just to get through the story. You've got this. Good luck.

[thesorcerersapprentice]

Analyze the structure of your favourite books in the genre you want to write in. Focus on structural commonalities.

Combine your (very personal) structural findings with your general knowledge of outlines to create a table with headings for all the plot points you feel are absolutely necessary to keep your attention as a reader (these are the same things that will keep your attention on the story as a writer with a boredom-adverse brain).

Fill out this table for your story. This will take several attempts. You will discover that your idea was less fleshed out and/or entertaining than you'd initially thought. That's ok! It's better to find out now than later when you're knee-deep in writer's block. Come up with additional information/characters/worldbuilding elements/plot points to make up for it.

Start writing! Along the way, you'll discover new characters/worldbuilding elements/plot points developing organically from the writing process. Incorporate these into an updated version of the outline for ease of reference.

Trust the process, and have fun! ✨

how to outline a story:

write a bullet point list of everything that happens

realize it doesn’t make sense

cry

start writing anyway

[coffeeandcalligraphy]

Hold on I think I cracked the code behind why so many people don’t understand what pantsing/discovery writing is!! Intention!! Though pantsing entails “writing without an outline” (so much nuance there) it doesn’t mean you don’t have a specific intention behind a work! Intention can evolve but it’s like the guiding force behind a work & something I’m aware of while I work, even in the most subconscious of ways… intention!!!

[jsmawdsley]

On today's blog, S has an update on her current side project and the differences between plotting and pantsing.

[mandyraine]

Pantsing vs Plotting: A case for the dreaded outline

Are you a "pantser" or a "plotter?" Take the challenge and outline your way to the end of your next novel manuscript!

“Pantsing” and “plotting” are two very different approaches to novel writing. The term “pantsing” comes from the phrase, “flying by the seat of your pants,” which means to improvise or make something up as you go along. The phrase was first used in the 1930s in reference to airplane pilots who navigated without the aid of instruments. Few writers are successful at pantsing their way to the end…

[rightwriter]

A nice motivating video by these two authors, Katytastic and Alexa Donne to get you in the writing headspace :)

[writingquestionsanswered]

I've seen across the web multiples tips for outlining/plotting when you have ADHD, however, I feel like I kinda have the opposite problem: I'm autistic and I always feel a big need of minimum surprises, doing things methodically and planning ahead of time, but my stories don't quite flow and I may need to work a non-forced pantser mindset, so if you gave me any advice on how to embrace a less outlined writing, I'd be eternally grateful.

Middle Ground Between Planning and Pantsing

It sounds like you need a middle ground between planning and pantsing, but it may take some trial and error to find one that works for you. Here are some possibilities, though:

1 - Do a Beginning to End Summary - Most of the time when people talk about outlining a story, this is what they're talking about. Just doing an in-depth beginning to end summary. However, you can adjust the depth of your summary to suit your needs, which makes it a great tool for when you need something with just the right balance of planning and spontaneity to fit your unique set of needs. Try free writing a summary of the story as though you were explaining it to someone else. Talk about as much of what's going to happen as you know or can flesh out as you go. Just having this in hand when you write can be helpful. If you find you need more structure, you can go into more detail. If you find you need less, you can pull back.

2 - Use a Story Structure Template - I've found that 90% of the time when writers struggle with planning vs pantsing and/or outlining, it's because they don't have a good understanding of how stories work and how they're generally structured. How stories work and how they're structured does depend on the type of story you're writing, but outside of experimental or deeply literary stories, most stories do have some sort of structure. You can learn more about plot and story structure, along with suggestions for story structure templates, in my Plot & Story Structure master list of posts.

3 - Do a Scene List - I'm mostly a planner, but I have to be careful not to let myself get bogged down with too much planning and too many details. So, for me, the best middle ground between planning and pantsing has been scene lists. I love scene lists because they're such a straightforward road map to your story, while at the same time having the depth flexibility of a beginning to end summary. You can put in as much or as little detail as you want. A scene list can be a just a list of scene titles that just let you know what's going on in the scene, like: Scene 1 - Hunting with Gale. Scene 2 - The Reaping. Or, you can do a brief or in-depth summary of what happens in each scene. Or you can even do what I do, which is a fairly extensive data table containing things like when and where the scene takes place, who's in it, plot point, summary, etc.

4 - Do Chapter Summaries - If you prefer not to break your story down into scenes, you can do chapter summaries instead. Like a scene list, this can be as light or in-depth as a scene list, from a list of chapter titles or working titles that suggest what happens, to in-depth summaries of what happens in each chapter.

5 - Do a Timeline - Timelines are kind of like scene lists in that they break your story down into important events/moments, and you can choose how deep to go. There are a also a lot of different formats you can use for a timeline, but you might want to start out by doing an old-fashioned line drawn on paper, then mark in the most important events. From there, you can start filling in the next most important events, then the slightly less most important, zooming in as much as you want to.

I hope something here will work for you!

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

I’ve been writing seriously for over 30 years and love to share what I’ve learned. Have a writing question? My inbox is always open!

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[slayingfiction]

Plotters VS. Pansters

Don’t forget our Grand Opening Giveaway starts February 1st/24 on Tumblr, Instagram and slayingfiction.com! You don’t want to miss it! Happy Writing!

In the world of writing, there are two types of creators often discussed: plotters and pantsers. These terms describe a writer’s approach to crafting stories. Whether you’re an aspiring author or a seasoned novelist, understanding these styles can offer valuable insights into your writing process. Let’s dive into what makes plotters and pantsers distinct and how each approach contributes to the

art of storytelling.

Plotters: Architects of the Written World

Plotters, often referred to as ‘architects,’ are writers who plan their stories meticulously before diving into the actual writing. They are the mapmakers of the writing world, charting out each twist and turn of their narrative.

Detailed Outlining: Plotters create extensive outlines, character profiles, and world-building elements before penning their first sentence.

Controlled Storytelling: This style lends itself to a controlled narrative with fewer inconsistencies and plot holes.

Time Investment: Plotting can be time-consuming initially, but it often makes the writing process smoother.

Famous Plotters: J.K. Rowling and John Grisham are notable plotters, known for their detailed story planning.

Pantsers: The Free Spirits of Storytelling

Pantsers, or ‘gardeners,’ as George R.R. Martin likes to call them, write ‘by the seat of their pants.’ They dive into writing with a general idea or none at all, discovering the story as they go along.

Spontaneous Creation: Pantsers often begin with a basic concept or character and let the story unfold naturally.

Flexible and Dynamic: This style allows for more flexibility, often leading to surprising and dynamic plot turns.

Adaptable Process: Pantsing can be less intimidating for some writers, as it doesn’t require extensive pre-planning.

Famous Pantsers: Stephen King and Margaret Atwood are known for their pantser style, crafting intricate stories with a more spontaneous approach.

Which Approach is Better?

The truth is, there’s no ‘better’ approach. Both plotters and pantsers have their strengths and challenges. Some writers are strict plotters or pantsers, while others fall somewhere in between, employing techniques from both styles.

1. Mix and Match: Many successful authors use a combination of plotting and pantsing. They may start with a rough outline but allow room for the story to evolve.

Personal Preference: The best method depends on what works for you as a writer. Experiment with both styles to find your comfort zone.

Genre Considerations: Some genres, like mystery or high fantasy, might benefit more from plotting due to their complex plots and world-building.

Conclusion

Whether you’re a plotter, a pantser, or somewhere in between, the most important thing is to keep writing. Each approach offers unique pathways to creativity, and understanding your own method can enhance your writing experience. Embrace your style, and let it guide you in your storytelling journey.

Remember, there’s no right or wrong way to write a story. The beauty of writing lies in the diversity of its creation.

[moonshine-nightlight]

Any advice for writting longform stories like NWWD?

@honoikazuchis

thanks for this ask!

thats a pretty open ended question and my answer will inherently be relatively specific to me and the way i write, but i'm happy to share my advice!

I will link a few other posts where i answered some other writing asks:

worldbuilding [x] editing/exposition [x] writer's block/POV [x] plotting vs pantsing [x] how long does it take me to write stuff [x] my writing process [x] writing spicy scenes [x]

otherwise, see below for me rambling way too long about writing.

disclaimer: this is just my opinion and how i do things, obviously there's a lot of variety and nuance for everyone's writing process.

firstly, is that personally, i'm inclined to writing longform stories so thats a bit of a built in strength of mine. generally speaking my story ideas come with lots of lore (see above for my love of worldbuilding) and i like relationships that are deeper/longer, with slow burn being a favorite of mine (why basically all my short stories have the two people involved having met prior to the story starting). that being said, technically the main character in 'Nothing's Wrong with Dale' doesnt meet demon!Dale until the flashback of chapter 2 and why is part of why that story is so long/has a built in arranged marriage premise. Of my two potential long form stories i'm going to do next: one they already know each other (and are basically already in love just being pining idiots about it) or two the story takes place over several months/high stress situations and does not end with marriage etc. But thats more of a concern if you're writing romance.

in general, my advice for longform stories is to already have a relatively complete, high level view of the story when you start. some people can just improvise the entire story as they go--I cannot. i think its very helpful to know where ur story is going to end, more crucially when it is long and you'll be taking a while to get there. by this i primarily mean the setup for the story, then general ending, and vaguely what sort of metaphorical journey they take to get there. you do not need to know every scene and detail in the middle--and plot points/characters can and will evolve as you write and think more on everything--but having the broad brushstrokes figured out asap is critical, in my opinion.

I also, as a side note, don't set out with a story length in mind. i can generally get a good handle on how long a story will be by the idea and outline, but i dont try to make it long. if anything, i did try to challenge myself to write shorter stories, like my novellas, when i started this blog/posting original writing here. that was not only because i do tend to get very complicated/long original ideas, but also because i think it was important to me to actually finish some original work, which i had never done before.

shorter stories tend to have more straightforward plots. not that you can't boil down longer stories to simpler summaries, but generally longer story ideas have more stops along the way so to speak that come to me when i'm developing the idea because i want to cover more with the story. the main character in dale having had childhood illness, dale raised by his grandparents, there being tournament stuff and assassins stuff and uncomfortable parties and most importantly MC figuring out dale was a demon immediately and dale not knowing the MC knew that were all things i came up with (loosely) very soon after i started working on it.

which leads into my next piece of advice: write everything you brainstorm down - you will forget and you will remember there's something u've forgotten and it will annoy the hell out of you. write your notes, write your what ifs, write down possible character names, write down cool ideas for scenes--heck write some of the scenes up then, evn if its for chapter 24 of 35. dont save what ur most excited for as like a carrot on a stick, i find that it doesnt help and that having part of my story that i love existing already is a much better motivator to write the rest

i'm also a big outliner and planner. i think some people think what that means is that u should b able to write a plan once for a story and then never change or deviate from it--but no! change the plan as you go; scrap things that dont work out and add new ideas when they come to you. however, i do think having something down that covers the whole story, lets you get a good idea of the shape of the story, and reminds you of your end goal, are all incredibly helpful. i also keep multiple worldbuilding notes docs; character and location lists; picture inspiration; etc to support the longform idea

i think u also hav to hav confidence/delusion that you will in fact finished. i hav started multiple longform original writing ideas in the past. none of them are done except dale. and part of it was not taking some of my own advice up top, but i think i also just wasnt as committed? lik it'd get lost in worldbuilding, or writing other projects, or life happening (which is all absolutely fine) but dale was the first longform idea where i like, really believed i could write it all and where i was dedicated to putting in the time i'd need to finish it. i knew i would need to take breaks and it would take more than a year (which i did and it did) but i still believed i'd get to where i am now, with a finished draft which i think was really key.

also, practice, i've been writing for years and year; i've been reading for even longer; and i've been writing and posting fanfic for years as well. some of my longer fanfics were such good practice for how to plot a long story without having to generate all the lore myself and having guardrails on for the story/characters in general. aside from dale, my next five pieces of longest writing are all fanfic.

lastly, find at least one person you can talk to about your story. i really think that helped me stay excited and motivated about my longform story in particular. i of course like talking about shorter stories too, but i dont think i felt as compelled to keep talking about them during the process of writing them as i did for my longform stories (even my longer fanfics i talked with other ppl in the big bang about or other writers on discord). and i dont just mean posting the rough drafts as u go like i did, but friends, irl or online, that either are also writers or are just interested in what story you want to make. i think it helps make it more real to you, it gives you ways to talk through issues that come up, its a way to get excited because they're excited, and it makes someone besides you ask how everythings going. the longer stories ideas i had but never got finished are also ones i primarily kept to myself, because i dont think i'd realized how helpful it could be to share them and also because i was still sure that in order to justify telling someone or evn for someone to care, it would hav to already be written, but it doesnt! and in retrospect, i wish i had because maybe those stories would exist--or maybe i'll dig up those notes and talk to someone about them and then find myself back to writing about them (rip to Aftermath, that corrupted external hard drive did u dirty and killed my motivation).

i think getting to understand and figure out your own process, to really look at yourself and see what works and what doesnt (as honestly as you can) is extremely helpful. u'll also figure stuff out along the way--dont hesitate to try to new strategies or drop one that are really not working for you. its all a learning process. be nice to yourself! give yourself the grace to make mistakes (or tell a friend so they can bully you into to cutting urself some damn slack when u can't stick to a weekly upload schedule u made up for urself).

whatever longform story you've got in ur head is one worth sharing and seeing through to completion--and then inflicting on everyone else lol OUR problem now ;)

[foxmulderautism]

im trying to practice healthy habits right now such as not responding to the writing advice post that pissed me off bc they flattened craft theory to basic rules again. however it’s about “pantsing” vs “plotting” so you’ve struck me where it’s personal

[elizmanderson]

Hi, here's my attempt at a specific question(s) for 'Remarkable Retirement"

Does Edna ever get a cat?

What was the writing process like, do you have a favorite scene?

How fantasy-esque versus modern-day esque is Remarkable Retirement?

Also also

"a dragon who hoards flowers"

more info on this one. I love this one.

I'll try to get the book whenever I'm able, it seems really interesting

<3

ahhhhhhhhh excellent. sweet sweet questions. let's talk about Remarkable Retirement!

Does Edna ever get a cat?

not in the published book! originally she adopted a stray who lived outside the nursing home and brought him partway on her adventure with him, but then he got cut because I am terrible at keeping track of characters' pets.

it is actually canonical that she's had a cat at some point, bc when she has to name something for Magical Purposes, we learn she's bad at naming things. she once adopted a stray cat and called it Kitty.

(in one draft it's stated that her son's father named their son for this reason lmao but I don't think that line survived)

What was the writing process like? Do you have a favorite scene?

part one of this question:

long and chaotic lmao. I wrote the first draft as part of a last-man-standing-style writing challenge in which I had to write at least 1000 words/week by the weekly deadline or drop out.

I made it all the way to the end for a grand total of 72 weeks. the last several weeks, the creator upped the word count each week (from 1000 to 1500 to 8,000 to 12,000 to 20,000) to pressure the last of us left standing to drop out so they could start the next round.

it was unsuccessful, as two of us not only reached but smashed right through the 20k goal of week 72 and were declared joint winners lmao. I wrote 32k that week and finished the draft at about 160,000 words.

I leaned heavily into pantsing for the first draft: I knew a few major plot points going into the first draft but otherwise figured most of the story out each week as I wrote more of it.

for subsequent drafts, which were revised over the next two years, I did considerably more planning. but still plenty of angst lol, especially since 160,000 is pretty chonky and the first draft needed some major restructuring. I think there were three major rounds of revisions total before I started querying.

(queried for two years, got lots of "love this but it's not marketable," and finally published with a small press that said "love this and we want to publish it." although I do have an agent now! but I got my agent with a different manuscript.)

part two of this question:

I do love a major plot twist and spent most of my first draft looking forward to writing it. but I think my favorite scene is probably the soft moment in the hospital between Edna and Amir. they're just *anime fist clench* so soft together.

plus it includes Amir calling Edna "Edna" instead of "Mrs. Fisher" for the first time, and I am a slut for a good name thing.

How fantasy-esque vs. modern-day-esque is Remarkable Retirement?

Remarkable Retirement leans heavily modern day, but magic exists and everyone knows about it. so the setting is modern and the characters travel to some real places, like Detroit and my hometown and California, and there are real-world things like nursing homes and cell phones.

but then you've got a part of the U.S. military that deals with dragons because there are dragons, and you've got a council of wizards that's mostly useless, and some of the nursing homes (not Edna's) are magical homes, and you can magically enhance your cell phone (but not iPhones because Apple doesn't let you do that).

so like. it's set in more-or-less the modern-day U.S. (minus the pandemic, which hadn't started yet when I wrote the book), but the fantasy elements exist openly alongside all the real-world stuff.

More info about the dragon who hoards flowers

his name is Basil and I love him very much

[bomberqueen17]

aw poop

Last night as I was lying on the couch trying to get the energy to go to bed I remembered that it was Saturday and Friday comes before Saturday and I'd been trying to post fic updates on Fridays. so that's how long it took me to notice the passage of linear time.

Update schedules are for the birds. I think I proofread the chapter? I was doing it one at a time so I'd have time to go back in and make my decisions about the final chapter and write that, and I have in all these weeks made about ten words of progress on that. I've thought about it a lot! But I've written thousands of words on other projects instead, lollll. That's how this goes; the words will come when I have thought of them enough, and also when other stuff stops being shiny for a moment.

The one where Ciri goes to Vergen and Does Not Meet Saskia is nearly complete except that I got to the climax and halfassed it in the interests of getting it done, which is great but now I have to like. You know. Rewrite it to be good. It's structurally there! I just basically have placeholder paragraphs. Little wooden blobs of sentences that approximately convey the action beats and have zero actual description or immediacy or poignancy of any kind. They exist! The story is technically complete! But they are terrible. Fortunately @bittylildragon has annotated them and i just have to muster my strength to figure out how to work those annotations plus my lumpy rough clay into some kind of finished polished thing worthy of all the goddamned setup I did.

(This is largely how pantsing works, btw, of the plotting-vs-pantsing procedural divide. I could not have outlined that, I had to write it. It might be easier for you to expand an outline than revise a terrible draft, but that is not the case for me, and I have learned this through a great deal of experimentation. You can plot all you want, I am apparently contractually obligated to pants or the words no worky.)

So anyway I have a day crammed chock-full of All Of My Weekend so I'm not sure when I'll get to the update but I will! It exists and is ready probably!! It just always takes me like half an hour at least of concentrated effort to put up even a well-proofread final version of a chapter because it involves switching between multiple tabs and even in a perfect scenario that's pretty high-stakes for my rabid ferret of an attention span, and this course of Ditzifying Antibiotics has multiplied those risk factors by like a million. (I am so dumb y'all.)

Anyway at some point there will be a torrent of words posted but idk when. Probably tomorrow there will be a tidy 6k or so words posted, about the one with the dogs.

[five-or-so-missing-children]

//People argue a lot that the FNAF timeline should likely be split up, but it's today that I've been informed that some people think it split off later than I do, which is quite a surprise, but I realized they have a point.

//So...

//I think the FNAF timeline should be divided into three distinct timelines/arcs.

//Hear me out:

FNAF1 through FNAF4: What I'm gonna call the Haunted House Arc, because of how much of a human element it seems to lack. It does not give much to work with. There isn't much focus on the people themselves, just a very impersonal recounting of the tragic crimes that took place within the establishment's walls. As for the finer details, that's left up to the audience to decide for themselves, as "perhaps some things are best left forgotten". You're not getting any more information or definitive answers. You are a mere outside observer trying to solve a crime with more than half the pieces missing. Can you accept that, player? Should you really even be looking?

SisLoc + PizzaSim + UCN: Afton Family Arc. This arc also includes the original trilogy of books that were published shortly before SisLoc; after all, their canonicity was heavily disputed at the time. These games focus primarily on the Aftons and all the people who get caught up in their web. The tragedy here is more personal, a story of a deeply unhealthy family and interpersonal conflicts, rooted in the diabolical actions of one man. Jealousy, revenge, depression, heaven/hell... It's a little like a soup opera in that way, right?

Help Wanted 1/2 + SecBreach: Future Arc. These games introduce more sci-fi elements like sapient robots, mind-altering VR viruses, and X-ray vision. The conflict seems to be more focused on man vs. machine, as well as the blurred lines between the two. Afton isn't the villain anymore, he's just another example of those blurred lines. Is he still human, or is he a machine? Was he ever a human? Are the Glamrocks human? They can think, can't they? What about the Mimic and it's ability to pretend? What makes a machine, and what makes a human?

//What would this mean for the "true timeline"? My argument is I don't think there is one. FNAF is a franchise with writing that is objectively being pantsed and thrives off ambiguity to encourage speculation. The writing is NOT infallible.

//I think it's far healthier to break up the story into distinct parts that have similar themes/plot threads/release dates and analyze everything within that distinct chunk objectively/with the same lens, while every other game is only used to supplement the details within the arc.

//Like, you can use the previous or later games to construct a timeline with in an arc. If there is something said in FNAF3 that you think adds to the Afton Family Arc, it's a valid interpretation of canon and you can add it to your theory. However, if FNAF3 says something that contradicts it... whatever! Ignore it! FNAF3 is meant to be telling a different story! And if you try to construct one large timeline from FNAF unironically, you WILL be overwhelmed and can NEVER be truly correct.

//I'm willing to accept the argument that these lines are somewhat blurry. After all, I don't think FNAF was made with these sorts of divisions in mind. There was definitely a transition between each, and future installments always borrow from the past.

//Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[wastemanjohn]

ite guys i am once again consensus seeking but not in a horny way for once - i'm having a very good convo with @amiwritesthings about writing processes and plotting vs pantsing and it made me curious - writerly mutuals what is your process like? do you plot all the tiny things out or just sit down with an idea and see what happens?