#perhaps less drugs idk we’ll see | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

wri0thesley · 4 years ago

Note

omg wait no hold on I just requested overhaul but then I remembered your overhaul thirst post about him pulling a "curing hysteria~" as an excuse and thought I'd request something along that vibe (no oun intended). I think that'd fall under orgasm control, overstim? (hope this is okay!)

hysteria antidote - overhaul x fem!reader (4k)

seeing nothing but the same four walls every day of your life is playing havoc with your brain. overhaul thinks perhaps you're suffering from hysteria. he has the perfect cure for that.

cw: not sfw/minors dni. dark content!!! dubious/non-consent. captive reader. talk of death, blood, etc. medical kink, gloves, fingering, overstimulation, orgasm control. misogyny. mentions of pregnancy/breeding. afab reader, fem pronouns.

[a/n: idk the internet said the 28th of may was his birthday so consider this both a birthday fic and a fic to celebrate 6k followers, sorry that i am gross and horrible but tbh im having a great time <3]

You really don’t think it’s unreasonable for you to be going out of your mind.

Since the Boss was taken ill, and Kai – Overhaul, you remind yourself, though he’s always just a little less sharp with you when you trip over the new name than he is with anyone else – took over leadership of the Shie Hassaikai, you’ve been pretty much stuck indoors.

Considering that you’re pretty sure he only has fond feelings towards maybe three people in the entire world, including you, you guess you ought to feel special about it – but all it actually does is make you feel like a trapped bird, caged and restless. It doesn’t help that all of the other members of the organisation have started being weird around you; people who you’ve known most of your adult life, people who you’ve worked beside and killed beside and done other horrible things beside (for the good of the organisation, of course)--

But now, they look at you like you might break at any moment. They treat you like an invalid. Their brows crease when they see you out and about, quietly murmuring; “Shouldn’t you still be in your room?”, avoiding touching you at all costs. There’s a kind of fear in their eyes, that they’re going to be told off for even speaking to you, that they’re afraid of being caught close to you.

And you know exactly who’s to blame for that.

You’d tried to speak to him about it, once; you’d thought that perhaps he might be amenable to your desire to do something to help the Shie Hassaikai. He’s always wanted to restore them to their former glory, after all! But after you’d let out your little impassioned tirade, his eyebrows had creased over the bird-mask.

“You don’t sound well,” he’d said to you. ��Go back to your room. I’ll talk to you about it later.”

You had missed, at the time, that he hadn’t said ‘we’ll talk about it later’. He’d just said ‘I’ll’. When he had come, that is how it had been; the reassurance that he was keeping you safe. That he didn’t want you to be tainted. That he was keeping you well.

Your quirklessness has never been an issue before, but it certainly hasn’t been a boon. Still, for Kai--

“It’s disgusting,” he’d said, agitated by the discussion. You’d stared at his hands, thinking about the destructive power he himself wielded. “Quirks are a curse, and you not having one is just proof you’re not infected.” He’d looked up, golden eyes piercing directly into yours. “I’m going to keep you perfect.”

Overhaul is not a doctor, for all of his talk about illness and disease and plague. You think he could have used his quirk for something meaningful, once; but you also know that his burning curiousity, his disgust of anyone who deems tainted, his utter lack of morality . . . those are all things that would not have been welcomed in the medical profession. So instead, he deals in needles and pills and altering drugs in the underground labyrinth of the compound.

Sterile rooms, with examination tables and scalpels and impersonal, silver-grey equipment. Pill boxes that rattle when he passes them to you and tells you to take three of those a day, one of those, that one has to be taken to with food--

The idea that you won’t take them doesn’t enter his head, and though he has never . . . overhauled someone in front of you, you have walked past other members of the organisation mopping and disinfecting blood and gristle from sterile flooring.

It is better to go along with him, so you take the supplements and the pills and submit to the way he grabs your chin in gloved hands on the doctor’s chair, tipping your face up to shine a light into your eyes and watch your pupils dilate. But inside, you are screaming.

You’re not made to be locked in one room, occasionally allowed out to pace the hallways of the upstairs – never the underground ones, not any more – with restless footsteps and your muscles fizzing with desire to taste fresh air. You’re not made to stare at the same walls and breathe the purified air and think about how empty the compound is, now that Overhaul is in charge of everything--

(Too many knick-knacks attract dust. Pollen allergies act up, if there are too many plants, and he hates hearing people sneeze. Furniture should be easily movable and barren, to assist in the twice-daily cleanings of every room that people walk through.)

But it’s getting too much for you. Suffocating. You feel like you’re choking on air all of the time; you take the pills, because the thought of what he could do to you is terrifying, but sometimes you wonder if perhaps it would be better if you didn’t.

You’d woken up that morning to the sound of rain hitting the high windows in your bedroom, and you had longed to go outside in your thin nightwear and spread your arms and taste the air, smell the rain, feel it hit your body in fat droplets. Your entire being had ached. You’d tried to distract yourself, with what little there was in the barren prison cell that you called a bedroom – but when the door opened at four thirty exactly, and Kai had stood there with his face as impassive as ever, you had not been able to stop yourself.

Hand fastening around his upper arm (you shouldn’t touch him, you know you shouldn’t, but the same four walls are getting to you), you’d begged him;

“I want to go outside.”

If anyone else had touched him like that, they would already be splattered against the walls and floor. But all you get is a furrow of his eyebrows, careful fingers (gloved, of course; the latex against your skin always makes you shudder) pinching at your hand to get you to let go of him.

“No,” he says. “You’ll catch a cold.”

“I don’t care,” you’re petulant, you know, frustration bubbling up in every cell of your body. “If I stay in here for one more day, I will tear myself into pieces.”

“You’re being over-dramatic.”

“Kai—”

“Don’t call me that.” His rebuttal is sharp. “You know I’m doing this for your own good.”

Your face twists into something ugly. Overhaul hates it when you do that; hates the way your brow wrinkles, your mouth moves, your normally lovely face (one of very few he can bear to look at unmasked and not feel as though he is going to get sick from merely breathing the same air of you) marred.

“You’re not,” you hiss at him. “You’re doing this because you’re fucked up! Because you’ve got some weird fucking ideas about what’s clean and what’s unclean, because you’re on a power trip, because you don’t care about other people--” Your voice is pitching and modulating, all of the things that you usually try and keep balled up inside of you spilling out that the floodgates of how unhappy you are is open.

You’re breathing heavy as Overhaul, clearly irked by what you’re saying, tugs at the wrist of one of his surgical gloves. If he’s going to kill you, good – at least it will be better than this, you think, your breath coming in short sharp pants after the outburst.

He lets go. His hands fall to his sides. His golden gaze on you is very level.

“You’re hysterical,” he tells you. An exasperated laugh falls from your mouth.

“Yeah?” You ask him. “Of course I am. Do you know the last time I breathed fresh air?”

“Seven months, two weeks, three days.” He says it without blinking. Your shoulders tense. Has it really been that long? “You haven’t been ill once in that time. The world out there is filthy.”

“It’s normal to get sick,” you try and tell him, but Overhaul is moving forward; past the doorway, and into your room. The door clicks shut behind him, the sound of a lock ominous. You don’t think you’ve ever been alone with Kai in your bedroom.

In the medical examination rooms, sure. In his office. In common areas, back when he was just the boss’ troubled protege and not the boss himself--

His eyebrows twitch in disgust as he notices the dust on your bookshelves. You’d stopped letting any of the cleaners in here a month ago; you’d refused to clean in the mean time, taking whatever small victory against your captor that you could.

“You’ll give yourself respiratory issues,” he says.

“Good,” your voice is cold, but you realise you’ve backed away from him. For all of your attempts to stand up to him, you’re terrified. Everyone knows what he can do. “Better dead than here--”

Gloved fingers around your wrist, so tight you can practically feel them bruising.

“You don’t mean that,” he says. His voice has gotten softer, cajoling. You’re trembling in his grip. “I told you. You’re hysterical.”

“I know exactly what I’m saying,” you say, but your words feel like you’re spitting them out around a mouthful of gravel. “I—I’m calm--”

Your knees knock against your bed, but Overhaul is still clinging to you; still too close. Your heart is beating so fast that you can hear it pounding in your ears.

“You’re not. You’re hysterical.” He repeats it, calmly. The hand not on your wrist reaches up and cups your face, a gloved thumb stroking across your cheek as if you’re the most delicate thing he’s ever touched. The scent of the latex is overwhelming. “But that’s alright. It’s not your fault.” He clicks his tongue behind the mask. “It’s mine. All of this checking for the physical sickness, and I didn’t think about checking your head.”

You fall onto the bed as his knees knock against yours, your back hitting the wall. It’s just a plain, single bed; rumpled sheets, because you’d fought against any attempt for someone to come in and collect your laundry, too. Overhaul looks silly in your room, you think dimly; like a huge black crow in the nest of a small, frightened wren.

“If you fight,” he tells you, “I’ll disassemble you. I’d rather not. I don’t want to taint you by using my quirk. But . . .” He’s sinking to his knees in front of you, those same methodical hands pushing up the skirt of your dress. “If I did, I’d get a blank mind to work with. I won’t hesitate. But I’d still rather simply fix you without having to break you into pieces first.”

You know him too well to think that he’s bluffing.

After all of the vitriol you’ve spat at him, he’s unwilling to kill you. Would it be worse, to be mindless and brainless under Kai’s quirk? You’ve heard some of his failed experiments before; babbling, drooling, broken things. He’s killed them sometimes just to put them out of their misery.

What if he did that, and your mind remained perfectly capable – just utterly unable to communicate with your body? A prisoner in your own skin. Worse than even now. You swallow back the lump of fear.

“H-how are you going to do that?” You ask him.

You start at how cold the gloved fingers are on your bare thighs, as Overhaul pushes them apart. Cold fear prickles down your spine. You’re too scared to fight back, but everything he’s doing is making you want to run.

“Did you know,” Overhaul says, those same hands sliding higher, to tug at the waistband of your underwear. “In the past, there were rumours that doctors would cure hysteria by genital massage and stimulation?”

His words are very clinical, but there’s a thickness to his voice behind the mask that fills you with revulsion.

“It might be nonsense, of course,” he says. Your underwear is being tugged down, pulled around your thighs, your knees, your ankle. “They theorised that the best cure was regular intercourse, male semen, pregnancy and childbirth--”

“Kai—” Your voice is a soft whine, fear-filled. This time, he doesn’t snap at you for calling him by the name he’s left behind. He simply says;

“Spread your legs.”

You don’t want to. But you want to risk what he’s threatening you with even less, so you tearfully open them as wide as you can go. He shifts forward, and the tip of the beaked mask digs into your inner thigh as he studies you like you’re nothing more than a diagram, not a living, breathing person--

“Next time I’ll have lubricant ready,” he says, under his breath, and your heart seizes up at the implication that whatever he’s going to do to you, there’ll be a next time.

You start at the sensation of gloved fingers gently parting the lips of your sex, Overhaul’s golden eyes drinking in the sight of you spread open and bare. You’re shaking, but for some reason the way he’s looking at you – the utter concentration in his eyes – makes a curl of heat flare deep inside of you.

“Don’t,” you breathe, trying not to squirm. “Please--”

“I don’t want to have to,” he says. His tone remains calm, unbothered. “I’m doing it for your own good, you know that. Just helping you along.” One finger slides through the slit; the sensation of the gloves against your most intimate, heated parts makes the muscles in your thighs clench. It’s . . . not exactly unpleasant, but neither it is pleasant. “Do you think I’m getting any pleasure out of this?”

He doesn’t like getting his hands dirty. You know this; everyone knows this. If this particular thought was so unpleasant to him, you don’t doubt he’d have found somebody else to do it (the thought of one of the other members of the Shie Hassaikai doing this to you fills you with even more revulsion than the idea of Overhaul himself). But you can’t say that out loud. Not after what he’s threatened. So you press your lips together and shake your head, gasp dying in your throat as one of Overhaul’s latex-covered fingers prods gently around your opening.

“You’re getting wet,” he tells you, as if you can’t feel the shameful slick beginning to leak from you. “That will make this easier. Good.”

You hate that the praise makes another jolt of arousal go through you. You don’t want to like the feeling of his gloves, rubbing at your heated cunt; the sensation of a fingertip circling around your entrance, brushing the bud of your clit and making you want to clamp your thighs around his hand.

He sinks the tip of one finger inside of you and you jerk, your hips out of your control as you try and sink away from the intrusion. Overhaul clicks his tongue again in annoyance at you. The hand holding the lips of your cunt open moves, to land on your hip and pin you between the bed and the wall so you can’t squirm again.

“I’ll sedate you next time, if I have to,” he says. “I’m not getting anything out of this. I’d prefer not to have to do it at all--”

He’s lying. You know he is. But you can’t call him out for it, so you press your trembling lips together and try to stop tears spilling out from your lash line as the finger inside of you sinks further and further inside, past his first knuckle, right down to the base.

He crooks it inside of you and your hands curl into the bedsheets, nails digging into your palms through cotton. His touch is curious, exploratory; has he ever actually done this to anybody before? He slides over a rough patch inside of you with the latex-tipped finger and a moan escapes your mouth against your will, your head falling back against the wall. Narrowed golden eyes look up at you as he repeats the motion; taking in the gloss of your lips, the widening of your eyes, the way your shoulders are shaking up and down.

You can feel yourself pumping more slick out; helping the glide of his finger inside of you, as he begins to carefully thrust it in and out of you. His touch is made all the more impersonal by the mask obscuring everything but his eyes and eyebrows; you can’t even hear him breathing.

Your cunt is fluttering around him, pleasure swarming you in breathless waves as he withdraws his finger entirely. He lifts the glove to his eyeline, looking only vaguely interested in how the white latex glimmers with your arousal.

“I’m going to use two now,” he tells you – and that is all the warning you get before two fingers beside one another are opening you up, scissoring your tight channel apart with an ache that you feel up to your hips. You bite back the whimper, but you’re unable to stop the choked breaths that are falling from you as he fucks you with them in steady, constant thrusts.

A covered thumb brushes your clit; swollen, now. Sensitive. Standing to attention. Your hips attempt to jerk in his hold once more, a strangled noise that’s neither pleasured nor pain falling from your throat. You’ve touched yourself, of course you have – even recently, just to try and assuage some of the boredom that fills your exactly-the-same days – but Overhaul’s fingers and thumbs and touch on you are so entirely different from that.

He continues his assault over your clit, those same eyes watching you with that same detached, clinical disposition that he’s had most of the time. There’s a cast to them that suggests there’s something more, but whatever emotion – if, indeed, he’s still capable of that – he’s feeling about having you at his mercy in this way has been pushed to the back of his mind as his thumb rolls and pinches at the bud.

Your body goes all-over heat, Overhaul’s fingers still pumping in and out of you, the slick noises of your shaming wetness echoing around the prison of the four walls you’ve spent seven months in. You’re teetering on the edge of something, hot and needy and wanting – and as Overhaul’s thumb sweeps over your poor aching clit again, you tilt your hips forward for as much stimulation as you can--

And he pulls his fingers out of you.

The heat fades into nothingness as you let out a noise of disappointment. Overhaul’s head tilts to one side, considering.

“What do you want?” He asks you. “Say it.”

No. You don’t ‘want’. He’s wrong. You keep your mouth pressed tight now that the damning noise has fallen out of it; you have managed to not let the tears trembling in your eyes spill forth. Your gaze meets his, defiant and tired and afraid all at once.

“Alright,” he sighs. “If you’re going to carry on being difficult.”

He does it again; his fingers plunging into you, scissoring you apart, rubbing against your folds with a practised agility now that he’s done it for the first time. He has always been a fast learner; always been observant. His thumb is back on your clit with ceaseless assault, and all over again you feel heat begin to build up; tension that crawls into every crevice of your being and worms its way deep inside you despite how badly you don’t want this.

The hand holding your hip loosens somewhat, allowing you to messily thrust your hips into Overhaul’s stimulation. You’re torn; you shouldn’t want to hump against the gloved fingers stimulating you, you should be wriggling and squirming away. But it feels so good; even with the skin-tight covering of rubbery latex, Overhaul’s fingers seem to find every one of your weak points and exploit them.

There it is again, building up on you; a ball of tension in your stomach being gradually wound tighter and tighter, threatening to snap at any moment. Your hips flex against his hand, your fingers clenching and unclenching on the bedsheet--

He denies you the peak of your orgasm for the second time.

And a third.

And a fourth.

“Kai--!” You’re too far gone to even think, after the pleasure has been pulled from you so cruelly, over and over again. The tears spill over your cheeks., rolling down in fat, shaming droplets. Overhaul’s eyes narrow.

“No,” he says, vehement – more emotion in his voice than you’ve heard all day. “You know what to call me.”

You know what he wants you to call him. You know that he wants to leave his old name behind, start again, be someone who can drag the Shie Hassaikai out of the shadows and into light and power once again – and he thinks that the name will help. You gurgle out a sobbing, strangled noise;

“O-Overhaul, please--”

Three fingers are plunged as deep inside of you as they can go, crooked to rub against your sweet spot; as Overhaul murmurs, detached but soft;

“That wasn’t so hard, was it?”

They thrust into you, his thumb rubbing your clit with firm, certain strokes – and this time, as the orgasm rushes up on you all at once, he doesn’t stop. He fucks you with his fingers through it, his thumb not ceasing the circling. Pleasure washes over you, finally, in great waves and crests. You feel yourself gush on his fingers, soaking him in your wetness (his eyebrows furrow again, at how close your fluid comes to spilling over his bared wrist; but you are too relieved to think about anything other than finally getting what you need).

Your hips flex, gasps falling from your mouth with every thrust of them – and you expect Overhaul to pull his fingers out of you. To stop touching you. Perhaps to strip off his gloves and put on a new pair – you know he always carries spares – and sneer at you as he walks out of the room.

But Overhaul’s fingers do not move from inside of you. The fierce rhythm of his fucking and petting and rubbing does not stop, even as the final aftershocks of your orgasm clench loosely about him and his constant stimulation becomes more of an annoyance than anything else on heated, sensitive skin.

You squirm, trying to push your thighs together to get him to stop touching you – but the hand not fucking you forces your thighs to stay parted with the curl of fingers into supple flesh, leaving you helpless to do anything but let him carry on touching you. Carry on fucking you.

A short, sharp shock of an orgasm rips through you as he swirls his thumb over your clit just so, and you realise that you’re drooling down yourself as well as panting; helpless and sloppy, utterly unable to do anything except lie there and take it until Overhaul decides he’s had enough of touching you.

You come, what? Twice more? Thrice? Until the pulsing of your channel is painful, your skin feeling red raw, your whimpers into the ceiling dry and broken. Only then does he pull his fingers out of you with a lewd pop.

A gush of your fluid that his fingers were stoppering soaks your bedsheets, and you watch, dazed, as Overhaul stands up. He looks down at you for just one moment, that stretches unbearably long in the heat-and-sex soaked atmosphere of the room.

He strips his gloves off of his hands, eyebrows twitching in disgust as he leaves the crumpled latex on your bedside table. He’s sliding on another pair as he speaks;

“Feel better?”

No. No, you don’t. You feel worse. You feel disgusted and violated and aching, your body over-stimulated and exhausted, sweat and drool and bodily fluids clinging to your skin. But if you tell Overhaul that--

“Yes,” you say, voice very soft and small and weak. You cannot see his mouth, but you see the way his eyes flash happily, the overall sensation of him smiling.

Why does Overhaul’s smile make you so scared, when Kai’s smile used to just make you feel warm?

“We’ll need to do it a few more times,” he tells you, as your blood runs to ice in your veins. “Such maladies aren’t cured in a day, after all. But . . .” He turns, rearranging himself carefully, his mask readjusted. You can’t see him as he speaks the next words. “I’d like to try some of the other suggested remedies, too.”

You think of his earlier words.

‘They theorised that the best cure was regular intercourse, male semen, pregnancy and childbirth.’

You’re never going to escape, are you? You’re going to be trapped in this compound until the day you die, and Overhaul is going to think that he’s keeping you safe--

“Take a shower,” he says to you, as he opens the door. It is not a suggestion. “And stop not letting the maids come in here to clean. I’m not having you get sick.”

You think he might be the sick one.

#overhaul x reader #yandere overhaul #overhaul smut #overhaul x you #chisaki kai x reader #bnha smut #bnha x reader #dark content for ts #5555 event fic #not sfw text #writing #afab reader #fem pronouns #misogyny for ts #bnha posting #medical kink for ts #non consent for ts #dub con for ts #non con for ts

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novamirmirsblog · 4 years ago

Text

Stubborn

Genre: Fluff, hurt? a little angsty? Idk. you tell me ;)

Request: Yes

Word count: 1135

Warnings: Swearing, mention of drugs, injury, blood (I think that's it but lemme know if any more should be added)

This is the request: May i humbly request a Natasha x reader where R comes back from a mission all messed up and doesn’t want any help. R hides their injuries from the team but Natasha can see something is up. Later that evening, she tries to talk to R but they are stubborn and shouts they want to be left alone! Suddenly the reader starts coughing up blood due to internal bleeding and collapses. A worried Natasha screams for help while holding R. Feelings are confessed after R wakes up at hospital. Happy ending!

A/N: I hope this is what you wanted anon!

The mission had gone okay. It was a success for all intent and purposes and on paper, it looked like the perfect mission. Perhaps the paper should talk to your definitely bruised ribs and chest. Unfortunately, Stark's newest 'shock absorbent' fabric was more shock and less absorbent. You'd have to let him know that this was nowhere near the finished product he had promised. You'd do that tomorrow though. Right now, all you wanted to do was curl up in bed and sleep the pain off. When the medics came to check you over, you waved them away, saying that you'd had worse and a bottle of painkillers would do just fine. You were hoping to just slink in unnoticed, have an extremely hot shower, followed by an even hotter bath and then pass out on your bed.

This did not happen.

Bless your team, you really did love them but when Stark decided today would be the perfect day to throw a little 'Congrats on doing so well' party, you wanted to scream. The only saving grace was that it was just the team attending.

The adrenaline had slowly begun to wear off and as you watched Peter's mouth move incredibly fast about a topic you didn't have the strength to listen to, you suddenly felt very faint.

"Sorry Peter, I think I had a little too much to drink. I just need to get some air."

"Oh sure - I'm sorry y/n - I completely forgot - you must be so tired from your mission and-"

You patted his shoulder tiredly and moved away before he could draw you back in with another conversation. Little did you know that a certain redhead's eyes hadn't left you since you came in.

"and then that's when- Natasha are you even listening to me?"

"Yes. And that's when you saved the kitten from the tree. Now if you'll excuse me. I think I need some air."

"But I was talking about the time Morgan gave me a makeover." Tony sulked. The sulk was abruptly replaced with a smirk when he realised who else 'needed some air'.

When Natasha made her way to the balcony, you had your back turned to her and were coughing. Your coughing fit stopped and you pulled your hand away only to see tiny red spots.

"Shit."

"I didn't know my company was that undesirable y/l/n." Natasha made her way next to you, leaning against the railing.

"Tasha! How've you been?" You nudged her and tried to wipe the blood into your hand.

"I'm pretty sure I should be asking you that question. Did you even go to medical before coming here?"

"Umm yes? Maybe?" Natasha gave you a look "Okay, no. I didn't. But it's not even that bad okay? Just some minor bruising. It's not like the time I got shot!" Even as the words left your lips, you could feel yourself slowing down, moving your mouth just took too much effort. That's when you were sent into another coughing fit.

"Y/n, we are going to the medical bay right now." Natasha looped her arm around your waist and tried to ignore the warm feeling she got by being so close to you. Now wasn't the time.

"Get off me, Natasha." You pushed her away and leant on the wall. "I don't need your help. I'm perfectly fine. I just-" You shook your head quickly, trying to clear the fog that was infecting your brain. "I just need to sleep." Apparently, sleep came a lot quicker than you expected because your vision suddenly went black.

Natasha's heart dropped. She didn't know what to do. She caught you before you fell to the ground but after that, she was frozen. She snapped out of her fear-induced haze and shouted for help. She didn't care how she looked, she just needed you to be okay.

~~~~~

An annoying beeping woke you up. "5 more minutes and ugh, turn that light off."

A low chuckle rumbled out, indicating that you were not alone. "Detka, I can't turn off the sun." Although Natasha would have surely tried to.

"Tasha" You reached your hand out and slowly peeled your eyes open. "What happened."

That was the wrong thing to say because her face switched from being concerned to pissed off.

"You didn't go to medical when I told you to." Her voice was low and dangerous. You had never been afraid of Natasha but right now, you weren't so sure you were going to make it out unscathed.

"I really didn't think it was that bad..." You at least had the humility to look a little guilty.

"You had internal bleeding Y/n. How is that 'not that bad'?"

"Okay so maybe it was a little worse than I thought but you're not exactly one to talk." You were offended that she had the audacity to shout at you when you remember multiple occasions of her walking around with bullet wounds just because she wanted to have a shower instead of being fixed up.

Natasha scoffed. "That's different."

"How. How is that different Natasha? Do you think I like having to find out that you're bleeding out because you refuse to go and get stitched up?"

"It's different because I care about you."

"Wow. You're saying I don't care about you? News flash Natasha - you're one of a few who I actually trust and care about."

"That's not what I-" You cut her off

"No no. I'm glad we cleared this up."

"If you would just lis-"

"You know I really thought we had something special Tash. Nice to know our movie nights were meaningless."

"THAT'S THE THING! Our movie nights weren't meaningless. They just meant more to me than they did to you. I came straight back from missions just to see your face Y/n. I didn't want to go to medical because I wanted to get to you as fast as possible. When you fell to the floor I realised I had to tell you. I've been sitting on this for far too long and today made me realise that. The thing is Y/n, I like you. Like a lot. So much that when I think of my future you're the only thing in it."

"I-" You didn't know what to say. The painkillers they gave you were pretty strong and words weren't being your friend at the moment. "I really like you too."

Natasha's lips reached yours and the kiss was slow and gentle, almost as if you were both afraid that if it was too passionate, it would break.

"I would really like to continue this but I'm on so many drugs Snoop would be jealous."

Natasha kissed your head "We'll continue this when you've come down off your high then."

#natasha romanoff imagine #natasha romanoff x you #natasha romanoff x reader #natasha romanoff fluff #natasha x reader #natasha x you #natasha romanov x reader #natasha x y/n #natasha romanov #natasha romanoff #black widow x female reader #black widow imagine #black widow x reader #black widow x you #black widow

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nabrizoya · 4 years ago

Note

honestly would LOVE to hear your thoughts on the nikolai duology because i really only see blanket praise or blanket hate for it whereas I see a lot of wasted potential. Bardugo's actual writing was beautiful as ever for the most part, but the choice of the plot/beats feels baffling to me. I love Nina, but her parts felt so separate from the rest of the book until the very end, and even that felt off. I liked the first 2/3 of KoS enough, dealing with the monster, political tensions, 1/2

and even the cult of the starless saint was at least interesting because dealing with people trying to rewrite the narrative of their greatest enemy (who hurt these young leaders in deeply PERSONAL ways) was really compelling (making him literally come back was. a choice) but I feel like somewhere in the last third, KoS went in a wholly differeent direction, and RoW has this vibe of feeling like she definitely wrote it after reading the show scripts or even seeing some footage. idk. 2/2

I will try to be brief (1/12)

Hey anon! Thank you so much for asking this even though it took 38756588247834 years to answer this I’m so sorry !! The Nikolai duology was good—wonderful too maybe because of the myriad of themes and topics it discussed and explored, all in addition to how beloved these characters are. For me, it’s the end of KoS as it is for you, and the entirety of RoW in particular that irk me the most.

I have very little issue with KoS, and I agree with everything you’ve said. The political tensions, the sort of urgency in trying to secure a country at the cost of personal reservations, preparing for a war that seems unforgivably near the door, etc. was all thrilling. After all, it is the first installment in the duology, and it’s supposed to set the course for the upcoming books.

KoS managed to introduce the stakes and the circumstances, lay the rails for what the characters will face and what it might mean to a vast set of entities connected to the events. And it’s hardly out of sense to expect Rule of Wolves to pick up where the previous book left off and carry forward the themes and plot points introduced in the first book.

Except, RoW failed spectacularly in that aspect.

Rule of Wolves: the second book, and the supposed finale to the Grishaverse and the Nikolai duology; it fails to continue the other number of threads that KoS set up for it, effectively compromising the characters, their characterizations, the themes and other political tensions and stakes. The due importance that should be given to the heavy set of topics that get brought up in the povs are not through, nor are the small details that Leigh added to the conversations evolve into something worth talking about, which are the actual points that could have been given some more page time to explore than just making them facts or points of nostalgia for the characters.

If you take a step back and analyze the whole timeline, events, characterization, objectives of the arcs and the plot points etc. etc., all the way from Crooked Kingdom to Rule of Wolves, there’s so much that is left out and tied in, quite haphazardly, which leads me to believe that Leigh wanted to attempt writing a duology that is more plot-driven than it is character driven. And we know that Leigh writes character driven stories brilliantly, and SoC, CK and TLoT are testament to the same. Heck, even TGT has more consistency than whatever TND has.

So, objectively? Plot possibilities? Characterization? Potential? Personal goals? Addressing the very serious themes it brought up, in little or major light, but give no proper elaboration about them?

The lost potential readily compromised the characterizations of many characters, and it all amounted to their arcs being very underwhelming.

I’m dividing this into four parts and here’s the basic outline.

Writing and Plotting

The Plot, Possibilities and Potential.

Characters, Characterization, Character Potential.

Remedy (what I think would've worked better to tie this all up)

This can get very looong, so be forewarned.

I. Writing & Plotting

Now, Leigh Bardugo’s writing is exceptional, no doubt. The sentences are short and flowy, and convey the tone, psyche, environment and the setting and its effects on the pov character marvellously. It's also immersive. It’s the same in Rule of Wolves, except, a little or a lot weaker.

The two main parts of this is that one, that Leigh slightly overdid showing a lot more than telling, and two, that the RoW (and perhaps KoS too), was more plot driven than character driven, the latter of which is actually Leigh’s strength.

In Rule of Wolves, Leigh’s writing seemed very choppy and snappish. The descriptions were lacking, or maybe that’s just me wishing for more internal conflict and dilemma, and going back and forth in one's own head for a bit. It felt like she showed more than she told.

Example being how Zoya ‘snaps’, ‘drawls’, ‘scoffs’, or ‘scowls’ less, and even if that’s supposed to be show Zoya beginning to be a little less unpleasant than she usually is, the tone in those chapters was not strong enough to distinguish how and why the character was acting a certain way. Nor pinpoint an explanation on what brought that change about. (And there were many instances like this with many other characters), which resulted in the characters themselves feeling so off to me.

Leigh’s characters are important to the story. They carry tremendous weight and actively contribute to the plot. Except, by focusing a lot more on the plot, some parts of these characters’ relevance was not up to the mark. It is greatly due to how weak the plotting and pacing of the book was, tbh, more than just her writing.

Consider: Mayu Kir Kaat. She is integral to the story, but she is thrust into responsibilities, and that doesn’t give us much time to see her as a person, and then as a person with a duty, like we see with most other characters. Whatever parts of her we did see were very circumstantial and timed, which is probably the reason why not many we’re unable to appreciate Mayu as much as we should. (Maybe fandom racism also plays a part, so, well,,,).

Like, we know from Six of Crows and with The Language of Thorns, how great care went into describing the characters’ state of mind, which further heavily influenced their choices and decisions. This time though, I think she wanted it to be more plot driven, hence the whole crowded feeling of the book and general worry about oh my god too much is happening, how will all this be solved and all that.

And this, I think, greatly hampered Leigh's writing, leading to unsettling and rather unsatisfying character arcs. Not to mention that there was quite little space given for the characters to develop or let them grow in a satisfying way which touches on most of the elements and themes that get brought up with regard to their powers and potential,,, and when it was indeed brought up, it was all in vain since they were never followed through.

That's one of the biggest problems for me in RoW: Plot points brought up in KoS were not brought forward in RoW.

II. The Plot, Possibilities and Potential.

Phew. Truly buckle up because this train has too many coaches. And to discuss them all, let’s keep the starting point as Crooked Kingdom.

a) Parem

Now, by the end of Crooked Kingdom, we know some important things about the parem.

It's dangerous asf for the Grisha who have to sacrifice their will and capabilities for a short time superpower high that they didn’t even ask for

Which means they are more often than not forced to consume the drug

Shu Han is the creator of the Parem and are also creating a new kind of soldiers called Khergud (who additionally require Ruthenium, but we’ll talk abt that later)

Fjerda snatched the formula after kidnapping Bo Yul-Bayur, keeping him away in the Ice Court and in their possession, and used the Parem to further their own heedlessly heinous agenda

I think it’s easy to understand how KoS started off on the right track, considering that Kuwei Yul Bo is mentioned, the antidote and jurda is brought up and so come the political tensions alongside it (what with the impending war, the demon, the lack of funds in the coffers and security and peace for the country alongside safety for the Grisha).

The point is, parem is a character of its own. CK was its inception, and its fate was decreed along with its lifespan and its doom. Ideally, by the end of RoW, parem should have been vanquished while addressing its nature as a deadly drug, the addiction and aftermath, and the key person who will guide the plot: Kuwei Yul Bo.

Parem is a political tool that pitted countries against each other, making one another their allies or enemies. (Though parem is not the only one factor). Ravka doesn’t yet know about Kerch’s neutrality. The Shu made their move to assassinate in the end, just as Fjerda cleared the air about their goals.

Point is, parem is weapon, a new kind of warfare that keeps getting alluded to in KoS. The first book gave a glimpse of how the Shu and Fjerda are using parem, thereby exploiting, prejudicing etc. the Grisha in their countries. Khergud whose humanity is washed away with parem + ruthenium, and the Fjerdan Grisha (are targeted) drugged and exploited while be subjected to torture, training and imminent death, parametres of these outcomes being severely gendered.

Ravka too wanted to weaponize it and create a usable strain that would still give the Grisha their powers but at a minimal cost, until Nikolai’s conversation with Grigori convinces him out of it and to use only the antidote for the Grisha.

And when are the contents of this conversation brought up again?

Never.

Another aspect of parem (that the conversation also covers) is this: that what was once merzost, parem is its strange cousin. Parem parallels breaking the bounds of Grisha norms unnaturally, while merzost takes it a step further to break the bounds of nature itself, which comes with a heavy price. They're both the same with little differences. Amplifiers are in tune with this discussion, hence the conversation between Zoya and Nikolai about how, and whether or not the abomination in him, the parem, and the amplifiers are tied together. This gets brought up again in the conversation with Grigori.

Parem parallels the superpowers, something that Zoya too manages to achieve once the corruption of the amplifier business is resolved, which makes her realize how in tune with nature the Grisha must be, and how limited the Grisha powers until then had been. And why the amplifiers were a corrupted piece of magic.

Zoya was supposed to be the conduit in that sense that she reversed the Grisha norms and understood the importance and nature of small science. This is alongisde parem getting abolished or resolved in the least, be given a redressal.

Yet instead in RoW, we barely see any of Zoya’s powers, nor even her experimentation and hunger for power which would give her protection. We don't see how she begins to realize that while power was indeed protection, it was also a responsibility. Not clearly, anyway.

So like, not only is this entire discussion thrown away in Rule of Wolves, but no matters are resolved either. Parem did not reach its end like it was supposed to. Merzost with regard to parem would have been an excellent thing to address, with or without the Darkling being present, because the blight is there. But that doesn’t happen.

What happens instead? We get one chapter of Grisha getting the antidote during the face off at the start of the book, the women in Fjerda are not brought up again and instead we jump to Shu Han. Kuwei is also conveniently forgotten because hey, the Zemeni are here so it’s all sorted!

RoW could have (should have actually) sought to address both the political and medical (?) aftermath and implications. Maybe it did succeed in showing the political side of it, with regard to Mayu, Ehri, Makhi and Tamar’s storylines. But that’s only in Shu Han, whose state of affairs we had NO idea of until RoW. No idea, so much that it was completely out of the blue.

And what we did know (get to know about in KoS) is Fjerda and the affairs there remained… unsolved.

(...sorry).

b) Grisha Powers

Re: From the conversation between Nikolai and Grigori, and Juris and Zoya, about how parem and the amplifiers are parallel to each other in terms of being abominations, a corruption of Grisha powers. Now the theory of it is not entirely explained, but we do know that the parem and whatever Zoya learnt from Juris was meant to move along in the same direction.

But we don't see another mention of it, except maybe we could dig a little deeper and realize that it all adds up because Zoya is the Grisha Queen of Ravka, Summoner, Soldier, Saint, all of it rushed and unnecessarily magical in a war so dire and realistic in RoW.

Welp.

c) Spy business

Just… genuinely what even was Nina up to in RoW? A spy, sure, but only to garner information on the pretender?

Why couldn’t there have been two responsibilities for her to uncover: the lies or truths about the pretender while the Apparat causes hindrances, and Nina trying to seek out more documents of the locations and labs where the Grisha women are being tormented and the other Grisha being weaponized? It could have been a leverage to discredit Fjerda in front of everybody in the Os Kervo scene. Imagine if Nina whipped out the documents of Grisha labs and brought the truth of the exploitation and killing and kidnapping etc. in front of the convention of all nations. All of it together would have upped the political tensions by quite the notch.

Even then, there’s a possibility that it wouldn’t matter either because the Grisha aren’t exactly valuable to all the nations. But killing and exploiting is still wrong so maybe it might have worked? Or see, even if it wouldn’t have, the slow and sluggish realization of Mila’s identity by Brum, and alongside writing it as a tragedy where Nina’s efforts seem to have gone to waste, or where Nina is telling Zoya about not accounting for Prince Rasmus’ word and she informs her about the documents she has snatched? Something could have been done here?

The point is, KoS focused on Fjerda and its unraveling, and it wasn’t continued with and through in Rule of Wolves. Instead it sought to find the problem in a whole new country, Shu Han, and fixed it within the same book leaving the other country as it is.

d) Ruthenium and the Blight

Ruthenium, the metal that is an alloy of regular metal and Grisha made steel, could have been utilized more significantly in the books.

I mention it in association with the blight because while on one hand it is true that the blight is an area full of nothingness, ruthenium as a metal could have been utilized to show the effects of rushed industrialization that is leading to the ground losing its essence. This is supposed to be advanced warfare after all. Besides, Makhi loses someone very dear to her. Perhaps ruthenium is more dangerous in Shu Han because the Shu use it to create the khergud, so the constant manufacturing of it has been leading to the metal leeching the lands of their fertility, along with the blight.

And so also to broker peace, Ravka could have provided aid in some ways. :

1) The Darkling sacrificed himself, as a result of which the blight vanishes. While the blight took away her niece, the possibility of a blight persisting despite the ending of RoW could be attributed to ruthenium.

2) Ravka could provide the reversing effect to the alloy of ruthenium and metal using Grisha and otkazt’sya engineering and ingenuity to replenish the lands.

All in addition to whatever will be Shu Han’s policies to bring lushness to their lands.

e) Women and War:

Holy fucking Shit, where do I start with this?

Whatever we saw in Fjerda was haunting, and we see it from Nina’s chapters. There’s literally no resolution for it, nor is it ever brought up again, at all. In Zoya’s chapters, we see through her eyes the brunt that Grisha faced with the war, and in a country that has refused to recognize Grisha as the citizens and considers them expendable.

Add to it her own narrative of how the women are never mentioned, let alone the ones that she has lost or has known to suffer, at the hands of the war, at the Darkling's torture and powers. The description of these women suffering, often being forgotten and thrown aside as mere casualties… where or when was it ever going to be brought up again?

Like, switching between such horrifying things happening in Fjerda to whatever was happening with Zoya and Nikolai and Isaak is such a contrast, horrifyingly demeaning and insulting, even more so when it failed to align with the importance of parem and offer a solution to both these problems.

Now switch to Rule of Wolves, where the Tavgahard women immolate themselves on Queen Makhi’s orders. Not only is that such a cheap and insensitive thing to do, it gets treated a simple fucking plot point in the book, and it barely gets addressed afterwards. Women in Asia have a vastly complex and complicated history with fire, and this is a serious criticism that culturally affects readers in personal ways. And what gets done about it? Fine, Zoya feels baaaad, sorry oops why would the women do that?!?!?

Where is the adequate sensitivity to the topic? Where is the continuation of the pain Zoya feels for many people, despite them being the enemy? How does she honour them? Where is all that dilemma and pain? Why does she not think of them or just get a line or two to talk about them?

Where is the due importance for this suffering given? Structurally and culturally?

f) Soldier, Summoner, Saint / Yaromir the Great

We never really get any explanation for why Zoya deserves to be the Queen, and why she is the best. But we do get to see why Nikolai isn’t the one supposed to be on the throne, and it’s not just because of his parentage but also because of his failings and doubts and the need for acceptance with the secrets he carried.

Here's the thing though; it’s not just about her showing mercy. It’s very subtle, and in good sense, should actually have been given a little bit more importance that be loosely brought up at random times.

Keeping aside the fact that Zoya is representative of Ravka—a woman, a Grisha, a Suli girl who changed the course of war and who knew what it was like living in poverty, being as an underprivileged person of the society in addition to the trauma from then and the state of living at her aunt’s place—which is meant to be covertly apparent, the other reason tracks back to Yaromir the First, who with the help of Sankt Feliks of the Apple Boughs—the one who raised the thornwood—lead Ravka at that time into the age of peace.

The Darkling testified that in his POVs, that while Feliks and Yaromir worked in tandem for Ravka, Aleksander worked for safeguarding the Grisha. In one sense, Zoya is supposed to reflect that moment in history in the present moment, except she is Queen and Sankta, and Grisha, all three at once.

It is brought up in one of the Darkling’s POVs and once in the conversation with Yuri in KoS. Other than that, we never actually get any more hints of this explanation in the text, which is the reason why the entire ending felt so so rushed, and like a fever dream, that even if it was a plot twist, it was kinda very baseless when it should have been more ohhhhh sort of a thing.

g) The Starless Cult and Saint Worship

This cult had immense potential to blossom into many things, some of which were indeed touched upon in KoS when Zoya says that she saw a bit of herself in Yuri, and brings up time and again how easily she’d been led and had not been aware enough of what’s right and wrong, just as she supposes Yuri is too. And to some extent, there is truth there, because in the Lives of Saints, we do see why Yrui comes about to hail the Darkling and how it parallels Zoya’s, of being helpless and ten being saved by a different power/ their own power, respectively.

That’s where it forks, that Zoya is older and realizes the path that Yuri has chosen and understands that it won't happen until he realizes it himself because the Darkling’s crimes are so obvious.

Even then, there’s still more potential: This cult could have been the mirror that would make Zoya reflect on the questionable methods of the Darkling, and the ways in which she might be mirroring them, despite or not it is the necessity because of the war. How she is training soldiers too, just as the Darkling did, and while the need to take children away from their homes just as soon as they were discovered Grisha was abolished, it was war, and they needed soldiers.

So like, there’s quite a big narrative going on here, how mere children are pushed into one path of becoming a soldier and the whole system that was that the Darkling followed to train the Grisha and all of that. All of this in addition to the juxtaposition to the Grisha being seen as elite despite them being hunted, and the people who are not Grisha frowning upon them. This is also the work of the Darkling, which actually paves the way to see how there can be a world where the Grisha are not feared or seen as abnormal, despite or not they are given a Saint-like narrative.

This cult could also have been the segue to discussing Yuri and his brainwashing, and the sort of cult-ish behaviour of believing in something firm when you couldn’t believe in yourself, or not seeing the magnitude of the crimes of their supposed Saint, alongside always staying focused on becoming a soldier only and never actually thinking beyond what is told.

Some of these are very subtle and some are brought up, but never given too much of an explanation.

Genya brings up another good point in the funeral chapter, about how Fjerda seemingly taking into the whole Saints thing could mean that if the Darkling moved there, he could very well sprawl his influence there to bring in supporters. Which leads to another discussion that gets brought up towards the end of the book: about Nina telling about the Ravkan Saints to Hanne and therefore to the Fjerdans,,, which doesn’t exactly sit right with me. It’s still a very nascent topic, and I think SoC3 will explore this path of faith and personal beliefs etc. but leaving it just there, while talking so much about Saints in both the countries,,, don’t exactly know how to put it into thoughts here.

But regardless, the cult of the Starless had different potential to talk of (blind) worshipping of an ideal without critically examining why the person must be put on the pedestal in the first place (and if it is simply power, then there is actually a narrative right there, which RoW gets right, about the people valuing the power still, as a result of which the monarchy still persists at the end of RoW. Even then, there’s more discussion awaiting there).

Not sure if any of this makes sense, but I’ll leave it at this here for now.

edit: 05/07/2021 | I think what I was trying to say here is that we do not have any kind of narrative evidence to seeing how and why it seems right that the Fjerdans will worship Ravkan Saints; is it merely because they are all Grisha? Or is it because of the segue explore this path of faith and personal beliefs and all of that, of the talk of the monastery and the Grisha there being of all identities, that a monastery is in Shu Han, that it has Djel's sacred Ash tree so far away from Fjerda... much to think about.

III. Characters, Characterization, Character Potential.

Mostly going to be about Nina and Zoya, but I’ll bunch up the rest of them at the end.

a) Nina

*head in hands*

I severely mourned how poorly Zoya was written in RoW, but then I realized that more than Zoya, it’s Nina whose potential was severely undermined and wasted. On one hand, I’m glad she uses her powers and quick thinking,observation and her own tactics to analyze the population and opt for the best way to make them see the truth she wants to show them (eg: making Leoni and Adrik and Zoya saints and also showing that the Grisha are the children of Djel via people’s belief to Joran and Rasmus’s mother).

But then, it’s like you said; her parts were so offbeat and outpaced and completely disjointed, when in fact, Nina is the thread that ties all the characters, their plotlines and potential, together. Nina is connected to Zoya and Hanne, two equally important characters and main characters of the duology. Whatever scope Nina has, they are greatly in parallel to Zoya and Hanne. And it’s all literally there, in the text! What a waste.

Though keeping aside these parallels, Nina’s own journey from Ketterdam to Ravka to Fjerda, while is spoken about, doesn’t touch some other parts that I see potential in. Or this is just meta.

Nina has grief not just from Matthias’ death but also from the loss of her powers as Heartrender. So much of the Second Army was built on being a soldier, and perhaps the Darkling was not outright disdainful of racial differences in his army, yet he still stripped every part of the children away until they weren’t children anymore in his view. They’re all soldiers… (albeit his soldiers, preparing them to do his bidding because hey, give and take right?). Nina was a soldier, and she is a soldier still under Zoya’s role as a General, but an ‘other’ of a soldier. That’s her only identity, and the loss of her powers means that she’s a different kind of soldier.

I imagine that this entire time, some small part of Nina longed for normalcy, or whatever settled as normal for a life like hers. In the sense that she wants to go back, but what is back and where exactly did she want to go back to? What was the before and after and where did things go wrong or change? There’s tragedy in the realization that whatever you were before what you became is not a place you can return to, and that’s a different kind of loss that she has to bear, and all by herself. She has powers over the dead now, a strange power she learns to grow to, but all the places she has been, all the lives she has led and people she had been, everything might seem like they’ve all been locked away in some strange place leaving her barren and indisposable.

She’s off to Fjerda as someone she isn’t, figuratively and literally. In KoS, Nina brings up many times how odd she feels as Mila and in some capacity longs to be Nina Zenik again. This ties in with the previous point of returning to somewhere, but where?, but is also a segue towards body dysmorphia, the thing that Nina and Hanne’s storylines parallel and connect too with in a small way. It’s a great line to follow to discuss what her discomfort with her body means to herself while it means something entirely different to Hanne, who is also not entirely comfortable being who they are. (This discomfort further which leads to gender dysphoria, while for Nina, it will be about learning to accept her powers. I’ll add on to this in a bit,).

I'm mourning the lost potential of that experience being a parallel to Hanne’s own feelings, of a discussion between people being uncomfortable with their bodies, something that can mean multitudes to each person and on their own accord.

In parallel to Zoya, I like to draw it from the fact about Nina wanting to go back to who she was, while Zoya actively tries to lock her past away and drown it somewhere or throw it to the storm, never to hear of it again. She has no identity other than being a soldier, and that’s enough for Zoya, because who she was before she was a soldier is not pleasant. But moving from being just another expendable shell of soldier under the Darkling’s rule, Zoya becomes the one third of the Triumvirate, and then the King’s general, all of which bring self-awareness of Zoya’s capabilities and challenges that are bound to excite her. But all of these also compel Zoya to be many other people to others as she slowly grows to realize that power is not just protection but also a responsibility, and it will inadvertently mean confronting her past of her lost identity, realizing the how of the Darkling, and how harmful it was. As Genya puts it perfectly in Rule of Wolves, that they were all taken away when they were young kids, not even barely children, and then thrust into responsibilities that didn’t allow them to be anything else other than what the Darkling told them to be.

Back to Nina; a few other great parts about Nina’s arc could have been about her connection to languages, as language being a mode of strengthening identity, in addition to growing to her powers. In RoW, there’s this line that goes ‘how sweet it was to speak her language [Ravkan] again’, and the feeling of homesickness. Like, Nina is trying to connect to Ravka through what she knows best—language, and then stories. In that, Nina realizes a part of her identity, which could also act as a segue to Zoya reclaiming her own heritage and ethnicity. Not only that but Zoya and Nina’s stories are literally so intertwined that it’s hard not to see how their choices and line of thought affect one another’s arcs, in the grief they have and how they choose to treat it, and also show why Zoya is particularly protective of Nina (and keeps wishing that she doesn’t become the monster Zoya had become, in the sense that Nina is more mature in handling her grief than Zoya was and the entire mercy plotline ties Nina, Zoya and even Genya together. More meta, haH).

And that’s why the ending doesn’t make sense. Even though the part about her not being comfortable as Mila is not brought up many times in the continuing chapters (and that’s why perhaps naming Nina’s discomfort as body dysmorphia may be wrong), there’s still the part of Nina readily accepting to be who she was a Mila and remain in Fjerda that seems iffy to me. Especially when Nina and Hanne literally a few chapters ago think about running away (it may be just another alternative they might be fantasizing about, but I think it still means that they both want to be their true selves without hiding any parts of it away). So her staying as Mila… well, it doesn’t exactly add up.

I’d also add the part of Nina’s story mirroring Leoni’s, and how she is from Novyi Zem and being a part of the Second Army meant that she had little to no connection with her past, her culture etc. But maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part that Leigh went for that arc.

edit: 05/07/2021 | I don't agree with my point anymore about Nina not having the kind of ending I assumed she might have, considering that it is very well possible for Nina to treat her identity as Mila as a fresh start, as a Grisha with a command over the the dead and begin a new normal that is suited for her. You can read more here.

b) Zoya

For one, white passing Zoya is not canon to me. I simply pretend I do not see it.

See, her race was handled very badly. Making her half-Suli was supposed to show the struggles and the trauma that the ridiculing of her identity by other people has caused to her. Except, not enough time nor text is given to thoroughly discuss it. Not to forget how problematic of a narrative in itself it is to make Zoya white passing.

It would have made more sense to make her dark skinned and predominantly Suli-looking than whatever yt bs she was put through. Her not being white-passing would have led to conversations about tokenization, or people caring little about her and not giving her any respect because she is Suli. Or being called beautiful to the face and praised just for it or a harmless tumble in their point of view.

So like, instead of making the ‘mistake’ of seeking for acceptance, seeking appreciation and love, from her mother at first and then the Darkling, Zoya instead makes herself someone to be feared, if respect was not what she deserved. The iciness is a part of her and has always been, but all of it soon became a shield, an armour that she vowed to harden her heart with. Just the sheer impact of this narrative and her reluctance, and seeing Nikolai love her for beyond who she thinks she is… if all of this was canon, I’m pretty sure I’d have built a shrine for this duology.

Let’s now talk about her grief, and...

…

Okay it’s not for me to point fingers at how Leigh chose to write about grief because there’s no one way or one proper approach to go through that pain, and if that’s how she chose to write about grief for Zoya, fine! But I really wish we’d have gotten a little more into her head to see how the trauma has affected her thoughts and how she struggles against why and what exactly it is that Juris wants her to do. That enough time and text was dedicated to Zoya’s feelings and the mayhem it caused her, as a result of which the dragon’s eye took its cue and made things more unbearable to her because she was the only one to bear them all.

Like, I feel like Zoya was overwhelmed throughout the book and in between she had some skyhigh responsibilities to discharge and it’s all so inconsistent and poorly woven,,, it completely dissolved her character from KoS and made it 10000000x more miserable for me to read her POVs. And honestly, what even were her assignments that the Kirkus review mentioned? Never an inch of text in RoW is given to decipher her complications of her mind, the muddled sense of hopelessness and fear that grips her time and again. Why overwhelm her so much that you fail to do her mental state and capacity any justice?

I’m not going to be harsh about how much David’s death bothered me-- no actually fuck that; what’s the point? Fine, he died. All because you wanted to make his death a plot device to make Zoya reconcile with loss and deal with it? Where was Genya’s grief? Literally no point of having a death in the book at all, and it didn’t even achieve anything. (I’m still trying to wrap my head around why David’s death was important and maybe if I find some straws, I’ll consider…)

There were so many other ways around it; could have brought back Lada and killed her off, or have the Darkling piss her off so badly or just. Something. Instead of whatever happened with David. I think this is too harsh and insensitive of me to say about Leigh, but still… there’s a myriad of other ways to have gone about it. Helping Zoya deal with her grief with Nikolai at her side, to understand that the rage that was fueled from her loneliness, like it had been in the past, could now be a weight that Nikolai was willing to carry with her… Helping someone with their grief, staying and choosing is also a love language you know?

So in that regard, I won’t regret saying how flat the garden scene was to me. Zoya’s lines, though tinged with grief, were so out of what I would expect KoS Zoya to say. Maybe it’s also because of how bitter I was reading about David's death, despite that part being spoiled for me.

The cost shouldn’t have been David’s death, especially not when his death too wasn’t properly handled at all, and Genya’s grief was never spared a second thought beyond bringing Titanium.

Now let’s talk about how Out of Character Zoya was throughout the book. Her punchy attitude was missing, and even if she was warming up to her friends, we see little of the iciness she continues to retain. Another part of this is about exploring her relationships, particularly with Nikolai and her growing feelings for him. I wish we’d have seen them grapple with more of their confusion and propriety, if only for the yearning™. Besides, no matter how cute their scenes were, they were mostly (like maybe some. 70%) awful to read them, simply because it felt so odd to see Zoya be so open with Nikolai, all of a sudden.

A part of this definitely has to be the fact that we don’t know just how much time has passed between the end of KoS and the start of RoW, and we never, never see any description of they regarded their feelings for each other and how they understood it themselves. I don’t actually know how exactly I can put this into words in a manner that will make sense, but the only scenes where I appreciated Zoyalai were in the Ketterdam chapters, ONLY. The rest was… bleh lmao. Their scenes were so cute and brilliant, and if only we’d seen more of the internal conflict and had given some more time for them to practically approach their feelings but still end up in the puddle of it. If only.

Their scenes apart were the good ones, because that’s where we finally see Nikolai feeling the loss, no matter how temporary (on the verge of being permanent since it’s the war), of not having Zoya with him, of not being there with Zoya because who else would it be if it wasn’t her? Zoyalai had good scenes but they barely lived up to the mark lol. Their feelings are never thoroughly explored, nor their mental capacities.

While we’re talking about Zoyalai, let’s also talk about how lame it was for Zoya to say that Nikolai was the golden spirited hero all along, from the very start, when canonically we know Zoya had little to do with him in the earlier books, that she may have only been physically attracted to him and never saw him as more than just some guy with a responsibility to manage, and had sooooooo much distrust about him. And that it was only in the next few years of working with him and alongside did she grow to recognize his efforts and relish in the hope that he was building for Ravka, inadvertently making Zoya hopeful too.

Nope. Instead, we’ll just throw in some destiny bs that he was the one all along rather than show that the beauty of their relationship did not stem what they perceived of each other, but was instead built on strong respect and admiration for one another and their capabilities. 100% destroyed their relationship for me.

Some good parts about Zoya’s arc in RoW was how she acknowledged her past mistakes, and the nuance that was touched upon in seeing sense in becoming a soldier from the start, that offered her a chance to be anything other than a bride. That some part of her was grateful for the Darkling for teaching her how to fight, while still keeping Genya’s words in mind about how they were mere kids, children who had only one path to traverse because the Darkling (who wanted their acceptance and loyalty) nor the Kings of the country let the Grisha be anything else other than pawns of the war. That she recognizes her mistakes as a teen and how self centred she was, that her being snotty had at times cost some peoples’ lives too. And she doesn’t take the blame all up on herself, because it’s not hers alone to bear. Super good.

Also, the way Zoya comes to view power as responsibility instead of merely as protection was something cool to read about. It’s not clear in the books, but Zoya actively tried to not be the Darkling while still continuing to build an army for the war out of necessity, and actually sharing some parts of the dream that the Darkling had for the Grisha. I can’t articulate this so perfectly, but the point is, Zoya trying to avoid becoming a tyrant like the Darkling was an active process that she was constantly trying to change, and where Zoya could not recognize her own feelings and inherent thoughts about warfare that in some ways did mirror the Darkling’s, by the end of book, Zoya is much more self-aware and conscious of herself and her power than she was at the start of the book. And this was well done.

Now, what is up with YA and making people turn into giants or animals lol wtf. Why couldn’t we have seen Zoya use her dragon powers in a way that symbolizes the conditions of her dragon amplifier and the power of the knowledge she obtained from Juris? She is a Saint, and we’ve seen that their powers allowed them to cause ‘miracles’ and such, as we see at the start of KoS and at the end.

Why couldn’t we have seen Zoya dabble with her newfound powers and completely lose her shit in anger during the wae, only to rein back in mercy, just as someone from Fjerda begs for forgiveness since they see her then as a Saint? Adrik and Leoni used their powers in Fjerda, so having Zoya bring about a conundrum of all orders and do something about it would also have been cool, wouldn’t it? In the funeral scene we see her turn water into ice, thereby making a path for Genya. Why couldn’t we have had more exploration of the importance of the dragon’s eye and the general nausea of being overly empathetic every. damn. time? Why didn’t we get to see her powers? Why couldn’t we have seen her fail in them and realize that the reason she was not perfect was because she was trying to be strong on her own and was not relying on others and joint effort?

Her turning into a dragon was genuinely the most baffling part bc here’s a war that’s so serious and dire with metals and bombs, and then here’s this magic that will solve all of it entirely. Like I’m not saying it was bad, (I am actually saying just that) but I also don’t know what I am saying, except that the ending felt like a fever dream.

…?

Not sure if I’ve managed to convey it properly, but well. Zoya felt out of character throughout RoW, and that the only place I saw KoS Zoya was in the final Os Kervo scene where Zoya finally agrees to be the queen.

c) Nikolai

Nikolai’s arc was very satisfying and brilliant to read about in RoW. In KoS, he seemed very much like a passive character, one of the reasons why his stunt with the Shu in RoW was appreciable, no matter how ill-timed of a plot turn it was. His journey throughout this book was also introspective to see why others deemed him unfit as the King, and even if they were his enemies who thought that in want to dispose him from the throne, Nikolai realizes that him being on the throne is not of much value and that this book was entirely about him seeing his privilege and making decisions to counter and correct the mistakes he’s made. That was nice. Oh, also his father not being an antagonist was a pleasant surprise.

I don’t have many complaints about him, except perhaps wanting some more internal conflict and elaboration about his feelings for Zoya. Them being apart was where it was satisfying, and then in the Ketterdam chapters. His arc could have been better in KoS, but that’s to blame the plot for the characterization.

d) Hanne

Now, from the very start, their arc was super good and it only got better and better until… the ending. Except it’s so odd that Hanne, a poc, has to now live as white person, while feeling comfortable in their transmasc identity. Icky, no? That you need to eliminate one part of your identity in order to feel safe and comfortable about another? Add to this the whole white-passing Zoya thing,,, doesn't exactly send off the right message.

Together with Nina, the ending seems uncharacteristic for both of them. Them coming to accept their powers and knowing to use their powers on their own accord was brilliant, though the entire husband business felt very,,, eh to me, even if it did make sense. The ending about their name and their new identity was too vague.

e) Genya, Leoni and Adrik, Kuwei, Mayu,

Genya is the one who faced the most disservice along with David. While there were exceptional parts to both of their plotlines, it's still sad that even if David's death was necessary, we don't get to see the entirety of her grief and the possible anger, and that her kindness is simply used as the justification for lack of portrayal of grief.

It really did take me by surprise, mostly because I wasn't a fan of the original Shadow and Bone book, but seeing David's conscience and self-awareness, along with Genya's (and Zoya thinking of how she wouldn't let any harm come to them, which shows a bit of her development towards her character development), was plenty refreshing. David and Genya were genuinely the highlights of the book and to kill David off was just. doesn't sit right with me.

Leoni and Adrik deserved more page time. They’re saints and immensely capable (no wonder they’re now the Triumvirate), but a few more pages for them to shine would not only have been nice, but also a necessity.

And now, Kuwei...

....

I mean,,, parem should have been the plot, alongside the entire weaponry and the discussion of making a city killer. But uh… that didn’t happen.

There's not much I have to say about Mayu, Tamar and Ehri, except that their plot was superb, only very badly timed.

There's more to talk about them in the remedy tho.

IV. Remedy

Here’s the deal. Before KoS release, there should have been a Nina novella.

Nina is a very important character. All of her potential, alongside many other parts of her personality--from dealing with grief, to accustoming to her powers, to growing stronger--there could be so much to do with her as a protagonist, alongside another character: Mayu.

A whole book dedicated to Nina in Fjerda with Hanne? Brilliant. Show Stopping. Mind blowing. It gives SO much page time to explore not just Nina and Mayu, Hanne, but also Zoya, Leoni and Inej. All together.

How?

Nina’s plotline carries the entire medical effects of the use of parem, just as Mayu’s will carry the pain she feels about her brother being a part of the khergud program. The novella will give ample time to flesh them out as characters and protagonists, each dealing with plot problems and problems of their own--like the loss of ones powers and newfound responsibilities, and the shared loss of a beloved person in parallel, even if neither Nina or Mayu interact on page.

Fjerda and Shu Han could be tied together with one chapter as a POV from Zoya (or maybe two), who, along with the Triumvirate and Nikolai, are completely at loss with the political scenario in the country, and are debating over what should be the course of action. Zoya receives news from the scouts, and missives from Nina, and Tamar takes care of the information she garners from the rest of the network, including Shu Han.

Like, the entire surprise of finding a Zoya POV, from a character whom until CK we’ve known as cold hearted and stern and not giving a fuck about anything or anyone, be humanized in that one chapter, thereby building up the anticipation for her arc,,, the very potential,,, *chef's kiss*.

And by the end of book, we could have an POV--or maybe a cameo if not a POV--of Inej meeting Nina on one of her travels of slave hunting. Inej could help take care that the women that Nina has rescued (as Nina does in KoS) reach the Ravkan shorelines safely. But, for a price.

The entire parallels between Leoni and Hanne and Nina could be set up, while also building up the narrative for the Saints’ plotline with Adrik's, Leoni's and Nina’s powers (like it was at the end of KoS). KoS and RoW would thereby continue it by tackling the weaponization and the antidote, Sainthood and the rest of the politics of it all.

Coming to Shu Han: one key aspect that I’d love to have explored would be the importance of art, during or despite the war. Of how war or pain chips away culture, while detailing on the ill effects of it from the commoners' perspectives, from the soldiers etc. Art is integral to Shu Han and could be portrayed by Mayu’s pain finding balm in poetry, of seeing glimpses of Ehri poring over poetry also mayri ftw, of politics that Makhi is weaving against Ravka, etc.

Or also add some more length to Zoya’s POV and explore a bit of Tamar and Tolya and Kuwei’s interactions and perspective added to it, of missing a home that they seemed to not know, or know; of discussing culture and differences on the basis of where they’re from (maybe the twins are from the borders, while Kuwei grew up near the capital or somewhere distant from the borders etc.), all while directly pointing at Zoya’s heritage and how it ebbs at her conscience, no matter how much she wants to bury it.

POTENTIAL !!!

Like,,, Nina novella would have been too powerful. It would have been perfect. I think I’d excuse bringing back the Darkling too if this was the case. (Or maybe not).

But welp.

Hey, thanks for reading! Not sure if you could make it this far, but if you have, you honestly deserve a medal for sitting through this all. I can’t imagine how tiring it must be to read through this, considering it seemed to take it more than month to compile this there’s also me procrastinating on it too so i’,mbhbdhshfsdn

Drop an ask if you want to talk more about this!

Sincerely, thank you!!!

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arsenicpanda · 4 years ago

Note

Trying to distract you from the elephants and hippopotami (hippopotamuses?) living above you: If you could write S5, what are the major highlights you’d focus on?

An excellent question! So, I’m going to pick some of the speculation/leaks we have and toss the others and kind of guess/go from there. Also, this gets long, like 1.9k words long, so be ready.

- Main Mystery: After the success of Jughead’s novel and the reunited Josie and the Pussycats, Riverdale has become something of a novelty, part curiosity, part tourist trap. But, this season, tourists and Riverdale residents are starting to go missing. Some come back, some don’t, and those who do come back have wild stories to tell about, idk, Mothman or something, we’ll run with that leak. But they also have a weird drug in their system. At least one of the people who disappeared was a government person with top secret knowledge. Idk exactly what’s happening, but Penny Peabody and perhaps Penelope will be involved. Maybe they’re using people as lab rats? Idk, it’s unclear. Everyone will have a piece of the mystery, even if Betty and Jughead are the ones to put it all together.

- Archie: Archie is, in fact coming home from the army, but instead of Not-Boyfriend #3, he’s coming home with Reggie, who also joined the army. Reggie’s dad is dead and has left him the car dealership, while Archie wants to Do Something For The Community In Honor Of His Dad again (also, everyone knows he’d be a shitty car salesman). Maybe we keep the firefighter thing though, idk. What’s important is that he and Reggie are living together in the Andrews house and, yes, we will get Archie’s gay awakening that we all deserve. This is 100% a ship we will explore starting somewhere in 5a. Archie is concerned about the disappearances and knows people being affected by it, same for Reggie.

- Veronica: Veronica went to business school and did business stuff with something new while being distantly involved in Le Bonne Nuit (Pop’s, however, she mainly handed back to Pop, although she does still do something accounting shit for it or something). However, she also started doing some shady shit (not sure what, I know jack all about this, I’d delegate this decision) and almost lost her business/went to jail/got sued/etc. Now she’s back in Riverdale to try to return to her roots with Le Bonne Nuit and being a Legitimate Business Woman. She married a dude who is reminiscent of her mother, kind of a business partner but also a Lady Macbeth type. The marriage is shaky at best because Veronica kind of forced herself into it, thinking that dating a non-himbo might make her happy after Archie (spoiler: it hasn’t). They will have their own apartment in the Pembrooke, and, yes, Veronica will have an office somewhere with the rediscovered painting of herself behind the desk ala Hiram because I deserve to see it. She’ll probably take it down at some point, but it will definitely be up for a while. She’ll have a rival business person (Elio?) who is both somehow involved in the disappearances, and Veronica’s husband will be revealed to have been working with him at some point.

- Veronica/Archie/Reggie: This is our endgame pairing because I deserve it. Veronica will get close to her himbos again, with Archie bringing out her better nature and Reggie bringing out her better business angles. Veronica gets brought into the Archie/Reggie relationship in 5b slowly, might all get together only toward or at the very end of the season. I’d work out specifics later though.

Now, I’m of two minds about Betty and Jughead. I could break them up like the show will or I could keep them together because I do what I want. I’m going to present both cases:

Scenario 1: They stay together

- Betty: Betty is an FBI agent, but she’s also chafing at the restrictions placed on her. She keeps getting in trouble for going about things in a shady way (like, say, ignoring the need for a warrant), and she’s getting frustrated by all the red tape. Currently, she’s being sent to Riverdale because of all the disappearances (particularly the government person) and because, well, she’s from there, she knows it. She has a partner who she doesn’t get along with. She and Jughead made it through long distance at college and post-grad, and they live together...idk, somewhere. She will somehow reconcile with Veronica, unclear how. May or may not quit the FBI to be a PI with Jughead at the end of the season. Definitely fucks up Penny’s shit at one point.

- Jughead: Jughead is a published author and a PI who Betty sometimes uses as a way around red tape and advocates as a consultant; they both love this. His first novel about Riverdale secured Riverdale’s place as That Weird Murder Town Where Shit Goes Down and turned it into a tourist trap; he hates this. He’s on his...idk, third novel, with his second having done less well than his first. He’s having trouble writing, so he goes back to Riverdale with Betty, hoping that returning to the town that first fueled his writing will help him with his writer’s block. Jughead gets sucked into the spooky part of the mystery, going off on wild tangents while Betty pursues legitimate avenues. 100% does not have a drinking problem.

Scenario 2: Betty and Jughead break up (either post 4x17 reveal or due to long distance troubles)

- Betty: A lot is the same here. She’s an FBI agent chafing at the restrictions placed on her and frustrated by red tape; she gets in trouble a lot for going about things shadily in her usual way. She’s being sent to Riverdale as a Riverdale expert to investigate the disappearances in general but, more specifically, that government person who went to Riverdale on vacation. (There may or may not be a more suspicious reason for the government person’s visit.) She is either a single career woman with a partner she doesn’t get along with or she is having an affair with her partner that is falling apart. While in Riverdale, she’s staying either in an apartment, a motel, or her house, depending. She will somehow reconcile with Veronica, unclear how. May or may not quit the FBI to be a PI at the end of the season. Again, definitely fucks up Penny’s shit at one point.

- Jughead: Jughead is still a novelist upset about the effect his breakout novel had on Riverdale. He is also an investigative journalist who’s been sent to Riverdale to investigate this shit OR a PI who can afford to take a vacation in Riverdale, and he’s happy to do it because it might help him with his writer’s block. He has a live-in girlfriend back wherever he lives, and their already dying relationship is going to break with the added long distance difficulties. He’s going to go after the weirder aspects of the disappearances because he thinks that’s where Riverdale’s answers always are. While in Riverdale, he’s staying with Cheryl and Toni. He will definitely reunite with the Serpents, and probably have some friendship moments with Archie as well. 100% does not have a drinking problem.

- Bughead: They will keep ending up at the same places while investigating and slowly slip back into their old routine and habits. They’ll have a murderboard in the bunker where they meet up away from the eyes of the FBI (Cheryl and Toni draw the line at murderboards in their house), and there will be a lot of pining and sexual tension. They will have at least one heartfelt conversation about why things didn’t work out, one instance where they have to make out to try and seem harmless after being discovered somewhere they shouldn’t be, and one heated encounter (maybe sex, maybe just making out) after being in a lot of danger. If Betty is dating her partner, he’s revealed to be a shady fucker after she breaks up with him like three episodes in. Jughead and his girlfriend have a conversation over the phone where they’re both tryin to break up with the other; it’s quite comical. Betty and Jughead are reunited by the end of 5a (episode nine at the latest) and spend the rest of the season rebuilding their relationship. The season may or may not end with Jughead proposing, possibly with a ring he bought for Betty previously but never had the heart to get rid of after the break up, possibly impulsively with one of the rings he always wears, possibly just with a new ring.

- Kevin and Fangs: Kevin is a drama teacher at Riverdale High, and Fangs does...idk, something, maybe he’s also a teacher, maybe he’s a /bein some field who can work from anywhere, maybe something else. They live together, a little off/on, but in a way that suits them and always ends in on. Kevin is concerned about some of his students who’ve gone missing. Fangs is either in the same position as Kevin or he has an employer who’s being shady.

- Cheryl and Toni: Cheryl and Toni both went to Highsmith College. Cheryl runs the Blossom maple business well and maybe something else, and Toni is a successful photographer. As for the twins, Polly recovered and is now raising them somewhere other than this helltown. They’re back in town for Cheryl’s business purposes, although they mainly live...idk, somewhere else. Either other Blossoms are secretly pulling some shit, Penelope has resurfaced, or Cheryl has a business partner who’s doing something shady. Toni sees some shit while taking photographs of Riverdale. Toni should get a storyline/be involved in the main plot, but I’m not sure what. Maybe she’ll investigate with Betty and Jughead sometimes? She definitely has a lot of interactions with Jughead, Fangs, and Sweet Pea though.

- Sweet Pea: Apparently is here? Maybe lives with Kevin and Fangs? Works...idk, somewhere? Possibly went to community college, maybe works at the hospital as a doctor or nurse or lab tech or something? Maybe is the sheriff? Unclear, but has seen some shit one way or the other. I know he’s not a series regular, but we bothered to bring him back apparently, he has to do something.

- Southside Serpents: Might not even be around? Maybe they disbanded at some point? Maybe there’s a new version of them that’s being shady? Maybe we don’t mention them at all? Unclear.- Alice: Is still here, apparently, living in Gladys’s house. No longer with FP, who has gone...idk, somewhere, maybe lives with Gladys? Alternately, Gladys comes back to live in her house and sparks fly between her and Alice. Probably is being nosy.

- Hiram and Hermione: Doing some shady shit, undoubtedly, may or may not be shady shit related to the plot, possible red herrings. It’s kind of one last hurrah for Hiram because we’re finishing up Veronica’s parallels with him this season. We might get Hiram v Betty at last, though, but then that might be best saved for season 6. Definitely a mirror for Veronica’s relationship though.

And I think that’s everyone? I wrote out Tabitha because we know nothing about her so I have no idea what to do with her. I didn’t break up choni because it really isn’t worth the hassle of breaking up and then getting back together three relationships. I have no idea what the musical episode would be. And I didn’t bother to hash out the plot because I’m not crazy enough to lay out a proper Riverdale plot, but I assure you a bunch of crazy shit goes down and at least one 90s teen/college icon shows up.

#asks #soyforramen #Riverdale #Riverdale speculation #this was such fun thank you for asking!#my thoughts on Riverdale let me show you them #so many thoughts this time

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lizacstuff · 4 years ago

Text

Sen Çal Kapımı / Edser Asks

After the fragman, I got a few anons this afternoon, my answer are under the cut.

(Also my initial reactions are in this post.)

Anonymous said: In the spirit of optimism- when Eda broke up with Serkan in 25, everyone freaked out but by the end of the next episode, she proposed LOL. Maybe just maybe they won’t do the “everyone pretends Selin and Serkan are a thing for medical reasons for multiple episodes” route and someone gets her kicked to the curb in 29. I wonder how much of the 2.5 hrs will be before he comes back and how much is after.

LOL, I certainly would like Selin to be back for only one episode. I hope my speculation is right (this post,)and her narrative purpose is to make Serkan distrust Eda from the start and once she’s done that she can exit stage right.

As for the theory you mention, which I have seen on twitter, I don’t see people pretending they’re together for medical reasons. That makes zero sense to me (not that medical diagnosis on a silly romantic dramedy dizi would be accurate, lol) why would that be necessary? Why would anyone go along with that? Especially when all he would need to do is google himself to find out about his relationship with Eda. They were all over the tabloids and on the cover of a magazine. Plus it seems like he knows about Eda, Selin tells him "she turned you into someone you’re not and dragged you into a different world.” He has to know they were in a relationship.

There is a lot of knee-jerk hysteria over there right now which is leading to completely neurosis-induced, nonsensical, worst-case scenario speculation. I recommend avoiding for awhile if anyone is easily upset by that type of thing.

As for the timeline of the ep, great question. I am hoping that the walk into ArtLife is not the end of the episode. We’re going to need to see Serkan and Eda meeting face to face before this episode is up in order to survive! We know almost the full cast (including Hande and Kerem) were shooting at a cafe yesterday, and the cast looked dressed up. Most thought it was for 1x28, so that seems like there are scenes with Serkan and the full cast in this ep.

Though, the show has a lot of questions to answer. How in God’s name did he end up in that cabin? Did he get on the plane or not? Was he held captive and got dropped in the woods with only Selin’s phone number? Has he been in a coma? Was there foul play involved? Was there a brain injury or did Babaanne arrange his kidnapping and give him some experimental drug to wipe out his memories of Eda?

Not sure if this Deniz is a law enforcement official or some sort of private detective, but there would have been some sort of official inquiry and search when he went missing. So he can’t just be lazing around for 2 months, easily findable. And Selin can’t have been with him for anything length of time without the others knowing he’s alive, because that would pretty much be kidnapping. So what HAPPENED?

Anonymous said: I hope we get good Eda and Aydan moments. She didn’t get married but she is still Aydan’s daughter now. He’s going to come back and find that this woman has his mother, his company, his dog, his car, his friends.....there’s no way that he doesn’t just know that Selin has been a snake.

Yes, please! I’m sure we will get Eda and Aydan moments, it looks from the first trailer that they will lean on each other while he’s missing. Which they should, they’ll be the two that will hold out hope and give one another comfort.

I am LOVING that Eda is driving his car and taking care of his dog. As she should, they were hours away from being married! And yes, you’re correct, he’s going to find Eda so deeply embedded in everything he remembers (except Selin) that it’s going to drive him crazy. Who is this woman and how did she ensorcell him so thoroughly? Can’t wait for him to find out.

You know what I’m most looking forward to in regards to Aydan? Serkan’s shock that his mother has conquered her agoraphobia. Can’t wait for him to find out that Eda was instrumental in helping her do that.

She is going to hit him like an emotional freight train. A second time.

Anonymous said: i know most of the fandom has already accepted it as fact bc they can't wait for the actual ep to make conclusions, but i'm less inclined to believe he's been in that cabin w/ selin for 2 months.. idk HOW he gets there, or how selin ends up there.. but for some reason i think they find him first, and he takes off by himself for a bit as he's overwhelmed with the whole situation.. and then selin enters. idk, we'll have to see it, but i think, like all trailers, it's confusing on purpose.

This theory is definitely possible. That he’s found and freaks out and goes to the cabin. Perhaps the last he remembers he was still with Selin so he reaches out to her for answer about what’s going on. That would make sense why he accepts her comfort, and she gives it, but can’t help herself from trying to do everything in her power to make him distrust Eda. Even if she doesn’t have hope of reconciliation, just to cause chaos because she doesn’t want them to find happiness together. She’s said it more than once, she didn’t want him happy, while she was not.

Anonymous said: I am not emotionally prepared to watch the look on Eda’s face when Serkan walks in holding hands with Selin after being missing for the last two months....😭😭😭. Also even if Serkan & Selin are purely platonic watching their scenes together are going to be brutal. I am prepared to cry ( both tears of joy & sadness) & be very mad at various points in this episode. It will be an rollercoaster of emotions for sure.

Yep, pretty much all of this! I don’t think I’m going to enjoy watching this episode at all. However, my hope is that I will really enjoy watching the storyline that it sets up where we get to watch Serkan fall in love with Eda all over again. Think of all the delicious, UST-y, sexy, funny, fiery, passionate scenes that are in store for us!

Off the top of my head, things I want:

Serkan opening Madonna in a Fur Coat and finding their photo

Serkan’s deep-seated memory kicking in and mindlessly tearing the crusts off bread for her without realizing it or knowing why

Finding out his computer password and what it means

Seeing photos of them from their matchmaking party. Looking so in love and surrounded by friends and family and everyone looks so happy

One of the friends, Engin or Piril snapping and telling him the big change Eda brought about in him was just that he was happy

Serkan seeing media clippings of them and their relationship

Eda handcuffing him so they have to spend time together while trying to jog his memory

After being suspicious and trying to keep her at arms length, Serkan finally breaking down and asking her questions about their relationship

Serkan being mistrustful of her, but still unable to say no to her

Anonymous said: So I get that SCK is going through a reset and now we will get to watch Eda & Serkan fall in love again but seriously they brought Selin back like that...WTF? Now she is even worse than Balca. Plus the entire world thinks Serkan is dead but somehow Selin found him and never bothered to tell anyone else...that should send up some red flags for sure. Regardless of the explanation, this situation is going to crush Eda. And it seems like a lot to go through to have him immediately get his memories back so we could be stuck with this storyline for a while.

Yes, poor Eda is going to be crushed no matter what. However, I know that people have been theorizing that the memory loss would be short, but I never thought it would be. What’s the point of this reset unless they’re going to follow through with it and milk it for as many episode as possible. They’re trying to find ways to keep this show going and this is their big swing.

The entire point is to recreate the magic of Eda and Serkan falling in love, and, honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would want that to be over in 2 episodes. I don’t see it as being stuck with the amnesia story, I’m excited for all the parallels, watching Serkan get struck by lightning a second time when he first sees her. Watching him be suspicious of her, of her motives of her abilities, but then finding out all the same things that he found out the first time, that she’s fierce, kind-hearted, loyal and talented. And just a bright shining light for him.

My heart melts just thinking about it. We just have to get rid of that opportunistic, malevolent, bitter hag.

Anonymous said: one complaint that i've seen in regards to sck is that characters aren't sent off properly.. but outside of maybe fifi (which we don't know how they'll explain her leaving) am i the only one that doesn't... really care? everyone that's left has been unsubstantial or in a villain role, and personally whatever way they leave i'm fine with lol.. i know when selin left ppl were mad bc they wanted a redemption story arc for her.. but not every character NEEDS that by default, if that makes sense.

For context, this ask was sent before the fragman. I agree with you, no side character needs redemption by default. I’ve said it many times, but on this specific show, really only two characters matter: Eda and Serkan. This is their story. Their love story. Everyone else is supporting in the truest sense of the word. They all exist to prop up the A story. So for most of them their journey doesn’t matter unless it directly affects Eda or Serkan. (Aydan’s growth and redemption has directly impacted Eda and Serkan and that’s why time has been spent on it). Selin is a tool. She’s behaved erratically at time because she only exists for the writers to use her to antagonize the protagonists. Her story in and of itself does not matter.

I laughed hysterically when some on twitter were thinking Serkan might really be dead and Kerem was leaving the show.

Seriously? You think they would try to keep this show going without Edser? That anyone would pay money for it, without them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If one of them were to leave, the show would be over. Dead. Cancelled. There is NO reason for this show to keep going other than for more Edser. Everything else is an after thought, filler, or characters that prop up Eda and Serkan either literally or symbolically or thematically. Nothing else stands on it’s own.

They devised this storyline in order to go back to the magic of these two people falling in love. Full stop. That’s why we’re seeing this reset. Because no other characters or their storylines are compelling enough to carry the show. I applaud the writers for creating a situation where we could watch Serkan fall in love with Eda one more time. (just get rid of Selin, please, so I can enjoy it... and do it quickly.)

#Sen Çal Kapımı #Sen Cal Kapimi #edser #sck speculation #sck spoilers #sckask #sck 1x29 #asklizac #anonymous

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tellywoodtrash · 4 years ago

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immj2 29.10.20 lb

dadi getting a lil too intrusive in her confidence in vansh's ability to pyaar, just coz he got his wife’s wrist size right.

appropriate response.

idhar chachi lamenting ki ohnoe i think vansh really loves riddhima now.

yet again, an appropriate response.

but for wrong reason. coz this one's like, look at all the great love stories. the truer the love, the more bitter the ending.

mummy like ughhhh but these two seem annoyingly indestructibleeeee.

aryan is pretty chill. he's like we shall try try againnnnn, mom. till when will she escape and he keep saving her??? at one point or the other he'll be late by 5 min. that day, we'll get her.

time for riddhima to get an angre of her own, methinks.

meanwhile someone's fucking with the mehendi. ofc.

lo. adulterated mehendi has been delivered to correctttttttttttt victim itself. even though there's no name or anything written on the trays.

she's SOOOOOO excited to put mehendi that she's not eaten all day and telling dadi she'll eat after the mehendi is dry. her cheerfulness is annoying me. who would be this happy about a hetero relationship with a man????? wouldn’t be me.

husband has noted the point ki karwa chauth vrat seems to have started a day early.

black string on chachi's shoulder, same as from mehendi-fucker-upper ka blanket thingy. i mean..... i think it's a red herring, coz she and aryan were bitching when the mehendi was being tampered with, but who knows with the timeline of this show anymore.

the stupidest thing here is that only the open mehendi has been fucked with. i wouldn't use that in the first place and just use the cone for sheer convenience and less mess. also KNOWING that everyone in this house wants to kill me???? why the fuckkkk would you use the one in the open container????

ainvayi mein these three are glaring at her. imagine letting someone this stupid live rent-free in your head all day. be better, queens.

hubs is here with khaaana.

dadi has to taang adaaofy some more and force him to feed her. honestly, iss dadi ko bohut zyaada utaavli chadhi hai. calm your tits, woman.

not to nitpick on a nice thing being done, but that dal to rice ratio seems waaaaaaaaay off.

also gross, she eats like a baby. truly incompetent in every single way.

sir what is your face?????? but also yes, simp more for your wifeee!!!!!

ew dal waale haath se hi baal bhi sawaar raha hai.

GODDDDDD, GET A FUCKING ROOM BEFORE DADI POPS IN BETWEEN YOU TWO LIKE

yup. she had to say some nonsense in between and make me die of cringe. i'm fwding the scene coz i realllllly can't handle the second hand embarrassment.

if my cat stepped in mehendi and walked all over my palms, it would look better than this.

DADI IS LITERALLY KILLING HER POTA BY EMBARRASSING HIM TO DEATH. PLS WOMAN, STOP. I CAN'T HANDLE IT.

ishani and mummy being eternal mood.

itch itch itch itch itch.

sensible dude is like just wash it the fuck off you idiot, and she's like noooooooooooooo but the rang!!!!

“tumhe lagta hai mehendi zyaada der tak rakhne se rang gaadha hota hai, ya phir pati ke chaahne se?”

“dono hi samajh lo.”

gotta say, i like flirty riddhima. it's the only time she uses her brain a lil and is tolerable. BUT OH GOD JUST GO WASH YOUR HANDS YOU DUMBASS.

thank god, he insisted and sent her off.

these two's issues i really dgaf about anymore, so fwding. like........ i think angre needs to back the fuck off a little bit. har waqt uske mooh mein ghuske yeh pati waala drama karoge toh kisi ko bhi gussa aana hai.

wonderful. aur rakho itchy mehendi haath pe.

husband ready to burn down mehendi waale ppl's house. totes appropriate reaction.

she's like oh no idc about my sore, bleeding hands, i just feel so bad for dadi. omfg dumbass just get a brown sketch pen from somewhereeee. like the old bat would be able to tell the difference.

“mehendi ka rang aur pati ka pyaar, inn dono mein koi connection nahi hai.”

ex-fucking-actly. i gots no pati and my mehendi comes out DARK AF, every single time. it has to do with body heat more than anything. and since i am a human furnace, i don't need no pati ka pyaar. not only in this area, but in alllllll areas of my life. #aatmanirbhar

“yeh mehendi ka rang humaare rishte ka certificate nahi ban sakta hai; lekin agar tumhe aisa lagta hai, toh mere paas ek solution hai.”

sweet.

ugh i don't caaaaaaaaare about these family waale and their neverending tippaniyaan on these two's marriage. fwding.

anyway pati is here to tell everyone to stfu and gtfo, thank god.

ofc that gets these 3 to turn on laser glare eyes and vow hellfire and brimstone on riddhima.

ishani was mehendi culprit?

here some more bitching and theories ki riddhima ne itna dimaag chalaana kabse shuru kar diya, uski neeyat kyun badal gayi about giving kabir the memory card, blah blah. i'm just here to stare at kabir in all black.

hein? mummy ALSO has the black kambhal???? did alllllll of you bitches add your own own poisons to the mehendi???

oh?????????????????

can't say i wouldn't do the same.

lol she's straight up calling him out for being an asshole when awake.

and now she's imitating him and maarofying all his dialogues, including the "interestingggggggggg.... veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy interesting." again, this episode is perhaps the firsttttttttt time i've liked riddhima as a character.

ASLKJDLASDLKASJDLKJASLKDJLASKJDLSAJLKDJL I LEGIT SCREAMED

and he's back to growling at her. but good for her, she doesn’t seem intimidated at all.

but april fool! he likes it!

“ek baat boloon?”

“haan bolo.”

“kabhi tumhe aise muskuraate hue nahi dekha. aadat daal lo, achche lagte ho.”

“tum bhi aadat daal lo. mujhe yeh aise achcha lagta hai.”

OH GOD SHE'S GONNA RUIN THE MOMENT BY TELLING HIM ABOUT KABIR. OH GOD. OHHHHHHH GOD. IDK IF IT'S MY PERIOD CRAMPS OR SHEER TERROR, BUT MUMMMMY, MY STOMACH HURTSSSSSSS.

ok phew, she didn't say the R(agini) word. she just says that like you had a story in your past, i have one too....

andddddddd he told her he doesn't care. it's her past. it's done. he only cares about living with her in the present. well dang. such a reasonable response? from this dude???? unexpected.

but also, He Knows right????? He fully Knows already.

is the person writing their scenes on some special drug these days? whatever it is, they should keep doing it. remarkable improvement in romantic scenes. like, crazy amazing improvement.

is it that, or have i developed stockholm syndrome for this show now??????? oh fuck.

early morning sargi blah blah.

ishani like i don't even got no saas, why i gotta be here for thissssss?????

riddhima as usual has to be overrrrrrrrr, and has prepared sargi for ishani and hands it over.

OH GOD DADI IS TELLING HER TO TOUCH RIDDHIMA'S FEET OH GOD DADI WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS YOU JUST WANNA SEE THIS MANSION BURNNNNNN, DON'T YOU

ofc there are promises of soooooot-samedh badla.

aaaaaaaaand mummy purposely messed up riddhima's sargi. ouff. saas bahu politics. idccccccc.

lmaooooooooo i am ishani. i can't help it, i just really am her.

wait mummy is saying shit like “mere bete ka dil todkar, vansh ke liye karwachauth ka vrat rakhne chali hai.........” ARE YOU TELLING ME KABIR REALLY FELL FOR THIS CHICK??????????? IT ISN'T JUST A EGO THING FOR HIM??????? RE DEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

#ishq mein marjawan 2 #immj2 #immj2 lbs #episode liveblogs

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gottagobuycheese · 5 years ago

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Tag Thingy

Thanks @silent--sonata for indulging my terrible sleeping habits XD

(fyi this will probably be unnecessarily long and rambly, so it’s going under a cut (EDIT: whelp the song list got a little out of hand, I’d apologize if I were even remotely sorry))

Rules: Answer 17 questions & tag 17 people you want to get to know better

Nickname: Cheese (or Lactose Wedge, or Dairy Product of Unspecified Origin and Purpose)

Zodiac Sign: Gemini!

Height: 160.5 cm/5′3″ (Bubbles I refuse to believe you’re actually that much taller than me)

Hogwarts house: Somewhere between Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff allegedly, both of which I’d be honored to get sorted into, but honestly I’d just be stoked to get sorted at all

Last thing I googled: I think it was something along the lines of “how to speed up audio playback in GarageBand,” but but my train of thought was derailed before I actually looked at any of the results so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (and on a related note, thanks again for the magical audio editing @imperiousheiress!)

Song stuck in my head: The end credits to Legacy of the Wizard (which is SUCH a jam, thank you for enlightening me @jessicafish) Following and followers: 227 (goodness just looking at that number is stress-inducing) and...104?! When the HECK did you all get here??? I think just last summer I was happily floating about in the 50′s. Anyways, to anyone I have not said hello, hello! Hope you enjoy your stay, and I am sincerely sorry if you expected Quality Original Content, or even just regularly scheduled other people’s content. Sadly, neither of these things tend to happen here.

Amount I sleep: During the school year it’s usually anywhere between 30 minutes and 6 hours (DON’T EVEN START BUBBLES YOU HAVE NO RIGHT), usually landing in the 3/4 hour ranges if I’m smart about it, but now that I am on Unofficial Break, it’s usually at least around 6 hours (except today was 3 because Avatar is an excellent show and the weirdos in this house have regularly scheduled breakfast at 9-something every morning). Sadly my sleep schedule can only be forced to tolerate normalcy for so long before careening back in the other direction, so we’ll see if this is just a blip or if we’re back to normal mid-Atlantic Ocean hours!

Lucky number(s): I wouldn’t say these are necessarily favorite numbers, but I do like 2 and 9. But come to think of it, second attempts at Official Things do tend to go better for me than first attempts, so maybe there’s some merit there after all! Dream Job: Don’t think I’m really cut out for dreaming anymore, haha (unless you are a theoretical future employer in which case I am Extremely Full of Ambition and Passion). The bed-adjacent metaphor has been made, and not to brag, but I can sleep on pretty much any surface. Currently studying my Not Favorite aspect of STEM (was there ever a favorite or did I just like being good at things sometimes) and learning how to People™ properly (and also learning a gazillion convoluted drug names like what the heck dude, did you just fall asleep on your typewriter coming up with these), so I’ll take whatever place hires me and pays me enough not to depend on my parents for everything, I suppose. In an ideal world, that would entail a job where I could make friends, and even more importantly, a job where my shortcomings would not cause Massive and Irreparable Harm, but I don’t think this line of work really meshes with that last one, so I guess I’ll either have to get my shit together™ extremely soon or fake my death, adopt an alias, and flee to a completely new place with no ties whatsoever before trying to get another, less high stakes job.

(Though I guess, less cynically, I like helping people well enough? And stories are fun! Maybe there could’ve been something with that. Not that there still can’t be, mind, but there’s still a long way to go between Here and There)

Wearing: Black shorts. Navy t-shirt. Brown some-specific-kind-of-jacket-I-forgot-the-name-of jacket. Is it summer? Is it fall? Am I in middle school? Who can say, but they are COMFY so sadly I have no cares to give

Favourite song(s): way way WAY too many to list here, and I do not have them all organized in a handy playlist separately, but to name a few (and these are not necessarily the MOST favorite okay, it doesn’t mean I don’t love stuff not on this list, it means you can’t force me to pick between my children and I am going to find at least one quick thing from a few things I like before I need to hit post and go back to looking like I’m being studious, and also things I think you should listen to right now, but for everything I’ve linked assuming I mean the whole OST), here’s a spam of links in no particular order:

LoZ Wind Waker - The Great Sea (aka the epitome of optimism)

Undertale - NGAHHH!! (I was about to link more but then I realized it’d be the whole soundtrack lol)

LoZ Breath of the Wild - Hateno Village (Night)

A:tLA - Peace (bad call BAD CALL NOW I HAVE EMOTIONS)

Legend of Korra - Final Scene/Ending Theme (MISTAKES WERE MADE MISTAKES WERE MADE)

Kung Fu Panda - Oogway Ascends (I feel like I’m taking you on a whole little album journey now XD)

PMD: Explorers of Sky - Dialga’s Fight to the Finish (aka the Gotta Shower Fast song)

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Pursuit ~ Cornered (aka the HURRY UP AND PACK UR SHIT YOUR FLIGHT LEAVES IN THREE HOURS song)

Apollo Justice: A New Trial Is In Session (very underrated soundtrack imo) and also Apollo Justice: Telling the Truth (because these two are very closely associated in my head and it’s getting harder and harder to narrow things down so maybe I should stop lol)

Your Name: Katawaredoki (in which I am forcibly thrown heart first into the bedroom of my second apartment at approximately 12-something A.M.)

Digimon Adventure 01: Butterfly (MASSIVE 90′s childhood anime feels, and also Last Summer Before Everything Went to Shit feels (on a general scale I mean, not personal))

Pokémon: Lugia’s Song multitrack cover by Jordan Moore (would that I could have a talent of that musical talent)

Pokémon the First Movie: Tears of Life (great now I’m on a Pokémon music spiral GUESS IT’S CHILDHOOD NOSTALGIA HOURS NOW)

PMD: Blue Rescue Team - Farewell and Run Away/Fugitives (you CANNOT make me choose between these guys okay, my brain WILL explode, and whoops now I want to link the whole ost)

Palette by A Dear Friend (wink wonk)

Pokémon: Alpha Sapphire - Fortree City (wow talk about mood whiplash)

Detective Conan: Main Theme (I can’t find the specific version since there are so many, but it’s a Good Theme)

Super Smash Bros.: Brawl - Opening Theme

Pokémon Colosseum - Relic Forest

Song for Lindsay by Andrew Boysen Jr. (oh great now it’s time for marching band feelings I guess)

Mt. Everest by Rossano Galante

Deltarune - Field of Hopes and Dreams and A Town Called Hometown (orchestrated) (aka the Lots of Work To Do song) and You Can Always Come Home and Don’t Forget (hey guess what I wrote a bunch of fake extra verses for) (also it looks my pathetic attempts at narrowing things down are getting even more pathetic so I’ll wrap up soon XD)

Guild Wars 2 - Fear Not This Night (never actually played this myself but my friend got me addicted to the music)

Lord of the Rings - May It Be (Enya) (aaaand now I miss choir, THANKS BUBBLES)

Lion King - Can You Feel the Love Tonight (Multilingual) by Travys Kim (aka how I remembered how fun these things are)

Original Song by Anonymous

(The urge to add all the other songs I’m not adding is so strong but I’ve got so much work to do so just assume I mean all Nintendo music from any game I’ve played, all Ghibli movie music, every musical I’ve ever heard, and even more)

Random fact:

Apparently as early as the 17th century, you could guess that a child would have a shortened life span if their foreheads tasted salty. Yes, there is a specific reason, and yes, you may already know what it is, and thankfully no, that life span projection no longer holds true, assuming access to Modern Medicine!

Favourite Authors: Okay I have not read enough various books of enough various authors to be able to answer this, so I’m just gonna go with a few books instead. They are not necessarily all-time favorites, but I enjoyed reading them very much at the time and more often than not go back to them for comfort reads: The Martian, any of first three Harry Potter books, and The Rise of Kiyoshi. (That last one’s not really a comfort read but I am drowning in Loving Kiyoshi juice so here we are)

Favourite Animal Noises: Certain kinds of birds (UNLESS it’s some ungodly hour of the morning and you’re trying to sleep)? Ooh, and crickets!

Aesthetic: A slob, but like...a comfy slob. An incredibly disorganized hermit who is happy to mill about in the uncontrolled entropy. (Are we talking about what aesthetic I give off, or what I like to look at, visually? Because I like space, and water, and mountains, and forests, and forests ON mountains, OOH and forests on mountains at night where you can see space, perhaps reflected in a body of water. Or just water, idk. Different things are pretty to look at at different times)

WELL THAT ONLY TOOK FOREVER SORRY FOR THE OBSCENE LENGTH

@pachelbelsheadcanon @averybritishbumblebee @shingeki-no-korra @sailorlock @yeswevegotavideo @soultheta @queenerdloser @ifeelbetterer @rogueofdragons @peppervl @amadness2method @mutalune and anybody else who wants to do this! This isn’t seventeen, and I don’t know if any of you have already done it/been tagged, but I hear people moving around upstairs so that means this break is over XD. And ABSOLUTELY no pressure to actually do this, this is pretty much just me wishing you well! (and YOU of course, my dear reader! I hope everything’s going all right, or if it’s not, that it does soon)

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praphit · 5 years ago

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Gretel & Hansel: White people, hear me!

I know, I know, some of y'all were hoping that my next review would be Taylor Swift's "Miss Americana".

I'm sorry to disappoint you. Why and how is she still making movies anyway? I thought that everyone associated with "Cats" had been banned from Hollywood.

Now, it WOULD be cool, if Taylor got involved in Horror. I'm thinking that a bunch of horror monsters could get together to track her down; kinda like a contest. They would, you know... do their thing to her, and then bring her back from the dead in the sequel, and repeat the process. Every now and then, they could throw in Justin Bieber or someone else with his same level of annoyance. BOOM! Franchise! So, donate to Praphit Productions (millions), so I can make that happen. I'll just CG Taylor Swift in, if I have to; I'm sure she'd be ok with that.

Just picture Jason Voorhees or Kanye West chasing her.

No, people, I'm here to talk to y'all about Hansel & Gretel!

No, no, no, I'm sorry! "Gretel and Hansel!"

I almost forgot about that blow up in their studio. Y'all remember that?

Sophia Lillis' (who plays Gretel - SHE’S GREAT IN THIS-BTW) first day on the set was raw!

She walked up to the director and was like "Bleep this bleep! Who is Hansel? Who the bleep is he?! No one knows that actor! What is he, like 5 years old? Bleep him! How is his name first?! So, a woman can't lead a man, huh??! It's always gotta be Hansel first, right?! And what always happens?! That witch bitch always tries to eat them! Bleep that! Y'all know who I is! I'm Sophia bleeping Lillis! I was in "It" one AND two. What has "Sammy Leakey" (playing Hansel) been in??!

Not a damned thing! I want my name first! You will put it first or so help me God, I will UNLEASH THE FURY!"

Director (Oz Perkins): "I actually like that idea"

SL: "I don't give a bleep what you like! Just make it happen!"

Then, she went to her trailer, and when she came back out, it was "Gretel & Hansel".

(Hansel’s not even in the shot. Lillis was too raw for him.)

Let's see if Gretel fairs better in this story, now that she's getting the chance to lead.

We all know this Brothers Grimm story. There's a family (I don't know what Gretel & Hansel's last name is... we'll just say "Shakur"). So, the Shakur Family was struck by a famine in the land. Stuff happens, and G & H end up off on their own, in the woods, and eventually meet up with a witch, who later tries to eat them.

White people, hear me! Are you listening? STOP GOING INTO THE WOODS! Seriously, STOP! I'm trying to save you. Black people know better, but y'all... smh. I know y'all like to go hiking, and camping, and taking selfies on mountain tops and shit, but PLEASE... STOP! Nothing good is waiting for you out there!

Quit going into the woods to get footage of alleged monsters/spirits. Quit going into the woods to spend the night in cabins. Quit going into the woods to party on the anniversary of the night that 12 people were mysteriously murdered in those same woods. STOP!

JUST STOP! DAMN!

Some of you might be thinking, "Well maybe Gretel will make it. Maybe now that she's leading the duo, things will be different." Nope, she's white... *sigh* so we all know what she and Hansel did... went right into the woods.

This movie is mainly from Gretel's perspective. Right from the jump, we see Gretel being pimped out by her mama. Gretel of course declines to become a professional hoe, but when she comes back to her mama for a possible different direction in life, Mama is like "Would it have killed you to get on your knees for your family?! We're starving!"

I know - Mom of the Year.

Dad isn't even around. I may have missed something, but I don't remember where he was, or if maybe he ran away, a long time ago. One of those "Daddy went to get a pack of cigs, and never came back" scenarios. He may be off in a land flowing with Big Macs and Fries, Idk. Or maybe, being that his "selfish" daughter wouldn't put-out, he decided to get to work on the corner himself. Who knows where he was in this movie??

Gretel was def tough though. And she loved her brother! She was very protective of him. There is a scene where there's some sort of vampire creature chasing down Hansel, and Gretel stands up to the creature. That's the type of character that she is in this movie. She's smart, tough, and though sometimes hard on her bro, she loves him very much.

Hansel on the other hand is annoying as shit. And Dumb! Man, is he dumb! I'm surprised that we never see Gretel slap him. But, she is always able to compose herself in the midst of her annoying brother, and keep the journey going. She even calms him down at one point with some drugs. They end up eating some shrooms on their trip. Now, THAT'S love, people! Seeing someone in need of calming the bleep down, and offering them some good shit. What's a road trip without a moment when the group gets high??

There's a Lando-looking character that they meet along the way.

He doesn't have much of a role in this movie. I'm not saying it's because he's black, BUT he's a fascinating, noble character, who's black and barely in the movie. And they do not trust him at all. I'm not saying it's because he's black... you know what?? - YES! Yes I am saying that!

He saves their lives, offers them food and shelter, and gives them specific instructions that will keep them safe. But, after that (the only character so far that has had G & H's best interests in mind), Gretel immediately questions his motives. White women, hear me! If a black man willingly sticks out his neck for you, IN THE DARKNESS, in order to save YOUR life, that's a man that you can trust. Cuz we (black men) all know, that if we try to save a white woman out in public (even if we succeed), there's a good chance that the cops will still swing by to shoot us. They're thinking just like Gretel is in this movie - "I know it LOOKS like they saved her, but... can we really trust him? - let's shoot him just in case." Granted, this Landoish character sends them off (again with instructions for their safety). They had no quarrels about leaving (and quickly).

So, they runaway from the compassionate black man, who just saved them, and they meet an old lady (the witch) who has black fingers, and house smells a lil like death... and they say to themselves "Let's sleep here!" Ain't that some shit??!

White people, HEAR ME!

STOP!

They don't even question her black fingers, they just let her handle their food. I question people of whom I don't know, with normal fingers, handling my food, but... I guess that's just me.

Then, the rest of the story is legend.

The production design in this movie is absolutely amazing! If this film had no dialogue, and was just silent, it still would have been a beautiful movie (despite the cannibalism:)

The plot, I felt, was secondary to the cinematography.

Some of you might say, "Well that's nice and all, but is the movie scary? Does the witch, at some point, rev-up a chainsaw, and chase the two kids around her house?" No. "Ok, but does the movie, at some point, have little, pale Asian kids making creepy noises at H & G while they're trying to sleep?" NO! "Yeah, but is there some sort of human centipede action happening in the basement of the witch, and she tries to..."

NO! NO! HELL NO! What's wrong with y'all?!

No, none of that. The story that The Brothers Grimm have painted is horrifying enough. Famine and crappy parenting, leading to witch who wants to eat you... I'd say that's all that's required; the director knows this.

They don't need to use any gimmicks, just the same story (pretty much), a lil dark magic, the mentioned cinematography, and well-placed spooky music keep the movie in a consistent place of dread.

I think RT got this one wrong (59%). I don't have much bad to speak of, concerning this movie. I can't give it an A grade, due to it being a copy of a story that we've seen copied many times before. Plus, there are some ending issues I have with it, that I'll get to in a sec. BUT, this film is a hell of a B grade :)

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WARNED YOU!

A few things:

Soooooo, Gretel has some sort of connection to the witch that is never explained. Apparently, she has within her, the same powers as the witch.

She ends up sending her bro off to Lord knows where. She sends him off on a horse that she says she SPOKE TO, and he (the horse) will get Hansel there (where? who knows??) safely. So, she's talking the animals now?? When did she pick-up that skill? And where the bleep did she even get a horse?

There's some super grease that her and the witch use to do magic, that is never explained.

Now, none of this took away from my enjoyment of the film, but... still though.

There's a message of false empowerment at the end. Like I said, she abandons her brother, so that she can... fulfill her destiny or something. She has dark magic in her, but she is convinced that she'll use it for good. Like I said, Gretel is a SMART character... what happened to all of that smart? It's like saying "Hey, I have this STD, but instead of tending to it, I'm going to use my STD for good. It's going to be hard, but I've gotta be strong."

WHAT?!

I said "false empowerment". The movie isn't painting a picture of this being a good thing, but the "false" part is subtle enough to where people could walk away thinking it's an empowering message.

You abandoned your brother to become a witch! But, maybe I'm not being fair. Perhaps Gretel will be just fine. Throughout the history of human beings, we've had many people who were in power, and who thought that not allowing their power to be checked was the brave and noble thing to do. I think those times in history all worked out well right??

I could have added some pics to accentuate my last statement, but I feel it might have been a little too real:)

So, instead I'll leave y'all with this slightly less horrifying pic

... and bid you adieu.

STAY OUT OF THE WOODS!

#gretel & hansel #john praphit #praphitproductions.com #movies #Movie Reviews #Horror Movies #praphit #taylor swift #miss americana #sophia lillis #oz perkins #hanselandgretel #witches #cats #black people #white people

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ettadunham · 6 years ago

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A Buffy rewatch 2x11 Ted

aka domestic abuse and personal responsibility

Welcome to this dailyish text post series where I will rewatch an episode of Buffy and point out / hyperfocus on one detail in it in 10-3k words. Or maybe go through each and every random scene I choose. Rules are fake.

And today’s episode is a tough one to dissect. For one, it addresses a pretty bleak subject matter and then pivots a couple of times during its run - but still, I’ll attempt to disentangle some of it, and see what this all means for Buffy. And perhaps Joyce.

There are a couple of episodes in the Buffyverse that I personally find particularly hard to watch for their portrayal of violence against women. I usually bring up Billy from Angel the series as a prime example, but we’ll run into some of these instances on BtVS as well. (*cough* Dead Things *cough*)

And the first half of Ted easily qualifies among those. Especially since long before resorting to physical violence, the titular character of Ted displays a number of alarming abusive and controlling behavioral patterns towards Buffy, the 17-year-old daughter of the woman he’s currently dating.

More disconcerting however, is the response Buffy gets from the people around her, when she starts voicing her concerns as well as describe the sinister threat Ted made to her. And this is one of those instances, where the show is trying to have its cake and it eat as well with showing Buffy as the victim no one believes and then later reveal that Ted’s been drugging Joyce and her friends to absolve them from not listening to her.

Which really isn’t a rare kind of device for supernatural shows. Science fiction and fantasy haven been used to make commentary on our world since its inception And in television that often means having the option to hit the reset button, after telling an otherwise super heavy story.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer of course, as do most shows of that notion for that matter, excels when that story still has consequences, especially for its characters. And I would definitely argue that this episode has some of that, as Buffy is faced with a situation that forces her to consider her responsibilities as the Slayer. But it also has some of the most jarring resets at the same time.

Now of course, the introspective part of Buffy’s journey here mostly comes out of the storyline that follows the scene where we’re reminded that as imposing as Ted may seem, she is still the Slayer. Which still doesn’t really take away from the sickly impact of Ted waiting for Buffy in her room after having gone through her stuff, and threatening to lock her up in the mental institution (hm, I wonder if that will come back) right before punching her in the face... But as she hits him back and then keeps hitting him until he falls down the stairs, suddenly everything changes.

Buffy just killed a man. And an episode that started out as a tale about domestic abuse is now all about personal responsibility.

Because Buffy does take responsibility for her actions immediately. I find her questioning at the police station a particularly powerful scene, as there’s no ‘gotcha’ moment, no justification from Buffy’s end. It’s apparent that she feels insanely guilty and shocked about what happened, and she tries to give the facts as much as possible about what happened. And while the police officer grills her and points out details like the lack any visible injury on her face from Ted’s aggression, no one presses charges at this point. It was self defense after all.

This of course brings on an intriguing discussion for the first (but definitely not last) time in the show. What are Buffy’s responsibilities as a superpowered human being in human society? Should the same rules and laws apply to her?

And Buffy here takes a definitive stance. She not only holds herself to human laws, but laws beyond that. “I had no right to hit him that hard” - she says. She defended herself, but she also lost her temper, and so she sees herself accountable for what happened as a result.

With great power comes great responsibility.

This is of course a storyline that will become hugely important in the coming season, and even in season 7... But at this point, the show is not yet ready to make this a central conflict for Buffy, so they reset everything by making Ted a robot monster (with a somewhat convoluted backstory), who comes back from the dead for one last scare.

But while Buffy gets a juicy character exploration, Joyce ends up getting the short stick here. I mentioned before how much I enjoyed Mama Joyce in the earlier episodes, but here, I definitely got a beef with her. While her initial dismissal of Buffy’s concerns about Ted after he threatens her can be chalked up to the magic drug cookies, her behavior at the end once he comes back is less easy to explain. The way she initially greets him, before he starts showing his circuits colors very much betrays that she didn’t believe Buffy about him hitting her that night.

On the other hand, she lies to the police after Buffy “kills” Ted. Which proves that Joyce would protect her daughter under any circumstances - but also possibly points to her clinging to the image of who she wishes Buffy to be over a daughter that she barely knows.

Oh, and Giles and Jenny get back together. Idk, I’m too wiped to say anything more on that.

And Willow kept parts of the robot as if she were some aspiring supervillain.

But I’m sure it’s nothing, and humanoid robots totally won’t become a thing on this show...

#buffy rewatch 2k19 #btvs talk #btvs

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sometimesrosy · 6 years ago

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Do you have any ideas of what Octaiva's relationship will be like with any of the former cult followers, like Niylah for instance? Niylah did call Octavia "the sun". Do you think her feelings on Octavia has changed now that Octavia is no longer in charge of Wonkru. Will Octavia still maintain authority over her followers in the season?

I can’t tell you what will happen, because, while I think it’s pretty clear that “forgiveness” will be a theme next season, connected not only to what Octavia did but all the other characters and, in fact, the redemption of HUMANITY itself, I don’t know how exactly that’s going to play out.

So to consider it, I’m going to think about what we DO know about how wonkru feels about Octavia.

First there’s the cultish devotion. We saw that with Niylah… which tbh I’m not so sure isn’t romantic love, so its hard to tell if Niylah is IN LOVE with Octavia or devoted to her as blodreina. Or both. IDK. I lean towards in love with her, but that could be my ship goggles, because I’ve been watching that since season 3. It’s still open ended in canon, so they could go either way.

But we also saw Miller, who was ALSO loyal, her most loyal lieutenant. Betraying his OLD leader for Octavia. I mean it sucked for Bellamy, but I think that had it not been AGAINST him, and things hadn’t gone SO bad in wonkru, Bellamy would probably have been very glad that Miller was there to stand at Octavia’s side. When he was planning to leave in s1, he told Clarke to keep Miller close, and when he had to leave Octavia, there Miller went and proved is faith in him correct. HOWEVER, Miller has been known to make his OWN judgments and NOT followed his leader blindly, like in s3 with Bellamy and Pike-Kane. So while Miller stuck by Octavia when it was necessary, I think he might be willing to pull back and reassess. We’ll have to wait and see what Octavia DOES in season 6 to see where Miller falls, I think.

I think Jackson will go whichever way Abby does, because, you know. But perhaps that will influence Miller? Or Miller will influence him? IDK.

But Octavia makes a point that Abby is ALSO responsible for the monsters that wonkru because, and I think Abby knew that. That’s what her drug addiction is, inability to face that therfore, self medication. So maybe Abby and Octavia will have to work towards redemption TOGETHER? (oh interesting.) Now that Octavia doesn’t have power, they can both address the underlying causes and effects of the choices they made.

It’s good that Kara Cooper isn’t alive anymore, because I think she encouraged Octavia to be MORE brutal and ruthless and LESS forgiving than Octavia was personally leaning towards.

Kane will probably not be so kind on Octavia, the same way he was not kind on Bellamy in season 3. He’s a blame layer. Even on himself sometimes. But we don’t know how much role he’ll have.

As for the general population of wonkru? We’ve already seen that a LOT of them didn’t like wonkru, and wanted to leave and were terrified of Octavia.

And it seemed that wonkru was pretty evenly split between those who wanted to follow Octavia and those who wanted to follow the new Heda. I don’t actually imagine that is going to disappear.

There was that hint dropped that Clarke will have enemies, and not everyone will forgive her, so I think there are going to be some people in wonkru who won’t like wanheda. Knowing now how this show holds onto storythreads to appear YEARS later, it’s probably a good idea NOT to forget that Clarke is the one who stole the bunker and locked the grounders out. And they brought up the possibility that the grounders would hold Clarke responsible and possibly kill her for her part in that betrayal. So, depending upon Octavia and how she feels about the shifting power structure and the new characters and some old ones, who knows?

Remember Diyoza called her out on LIKING the power. That probably means something.

In the end, I am going back to my original theory of Octavia symbolically representing both The Soul, and humanity itself, in this story about the end of the world and the rebirth of humanity. Octavia almost died. She was corrupted. She caused pain through her greed and ignorance and selfishness and fear and desire to keep everyone alive. She did EVIL in the name of her people. She was NOT the good guy.

But then, that’s what happened to humanity in the first place, isn’t it? So in a way, Octavia’s redemption represents the redemption of humanity. Like Jasper said, maybe humanity doesn’t deserve to be saved? We’ll see with what happens with Octavia, I believe. I think The 100 is going to take a lighter turn and no longer be about surviving in the apocalypse no matter what, but instead be about making sure humanity DESERVES to survive and being the good guys. That means Octavia has to be redeemed. She was on my death list last year, because I thought they were going dark with that sullied soul symbolism and like Jasper said, decide she didn’t DESERVE to live. I think that’s what Octavia herself thought, too. But instead they yoinked her unearned BUT FORESHADOWED redemption right out of her grasp and now she has to do the WORK to earn a redemption. That was tricky, but a better story. I’m pleased.

If this show’s central couple is Clarke and Bellamy, it’s central TRIO is Clarke, Bellamy AND OCTAVIA. They are the head, the heart AND THE SOUL. Octavia is a SULLIED soul. All of them are, really, because what they have done to survive has tainted them. But NOW they on a journey to BE THE GOOD GUYS, and in order to do that, I think they probably have to bring Octavia back over to the good side. They need HER to heal. They need HER to make amends. They need HER to find peace and learn how to be happy and find love again.

HOW will wonkru act towards Octavia? I don’t know. I think her story will be a major one with a deep symbolism that affects the meaning of the show, just like Bellarke.

We don’t have a solution for people who refuse to be good guys, yet. Do we? Oh wait. Yes we do. Season 2. Mount Weather. Eradication.

#the 100 #octavia blake #redemption #and the soul #symbolism #wonkru #niytavia

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regular-lord-reckoner · 8 years ago

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AFI: Secret Nazis?!?!

Alright, so...let’s jump into this, I guess

I’ve posted before about Davey’s clothing line Eat Your Own Tail here because that’s just a wholllllle bucket of problems, although like I said in my post, I’m not gonna take that as solid 1000% proof that dude’s a secret Nazi

Do I think what he’s doing there is the most responsible thing? No. Have I called him out on it? Yes. Is he gonna do something about it? Idk, that remains to be seen

I realize that this has caused a looooot of emotional turmoil for fans and it’s even garnered the attention of non-fans who have looked further into the band and the situation as a whole and there’s a post going around that lays out what it claims to be proof that AFI is basically a beehive of racism

And here’s the thing, like...we all understand on just a base line level that white people are inherently racist. We were born into a racist society and we benefit from white privilege and it’s not like reading a few articles or watching 13th magically cures any of us of being racist

Is it possible that this group or at least half of it is totally fucking racist and at the very least Nazi sympathizers? I mean...yeah, anything’s possible.

Given some of the posed arguments, though...Idk. I might be an oblivious fan over here with my head stuck up my own ass, but I’m not swayed by arguments such as “They have a song called ‘White Offerings’” as proof of them being racist

Like...okay, and?

These are the lyrics:

If I were only If I were only here I'd try I'd try to give you little birds I've made Oh, everyone takes flight never to return again White offerings are all I bring Welcome to white room, white room White offerings are all I bring I welcome you, I offer you this white room If I were only If I were only here I'd try I'd try to gift you paper birds I free And you'd set fire to my sky Oh, but I will offer you White offerings are all I bring Welcome to white room, white room White offerings are all I bring I welcome you, I offer you this white room I can feel your color changing I can feel your color changing I can feel your color changing I can feel it change White offerings are all I bring Welcome to white room, white room White offerings are all I bring I welcome you, I offer you this white room White White room White room White offerings are all I bring I offer you this white room

Now, perhaps I’m just super duper ignorant here, but...this doesn’t sound like a pro-ethnic cleansing anthem to me ????

As someone who’s listened to this band for years I can tell you that the lyrics often reference colors (white, black, gold, grey, etc.) and that there are a loooooot of songs about failed relationships

Another way of looking at this song could be that the use of the color white here is symbolism for the absence of something. I’m no color theory major, but I know a lot of people tend to think of white as being the absence of color (which I feel like is actually wrong but regardless it’s still something people believe so bear with me)

You could interpret this song as being about a situation being disturbed or changing, becoming tumultuous or chaotic. “I offer you stability and you reject that” in other words.

Or, y’know, you could take it to mean Davey wants to see the destruction of all other races, that’s a thing, too.

I guess by that logic any time I hear the word white in a song sung by a white dude I’m gonna have to rethink everything. I’m lookin’ at you, Thom Yorke and your “Daydreaming” song. “WHITE room, by window?” I see you.

Another point was that Kerrang! magazine rated AFI’s most recent album with a series of Ks because their name begins with a K so I guess instead of stars they made the piss poor decision to giving albums ratings in Ks? Or maybe just this one? I don’t fuckin’ know, but it sounds like Kerrang!’s problem if you ask me, but Idk maybe Davey asked for that rating specifically as a shout out to his brothers in the klan.

Yet another point is in XTRMST lyrics and this one I can see because that’s some angry, violent shit but...here’s the thing, I dunno why we all suddenly have amnesia and are pretending that we don’t know what that band’s purpose was

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t XTRMST supposed to be an angry, violent straight edge thing? Meaning...the references to Xs have to do with straight edge symbolism. The lyrics are talking about drugs culture, alcohol culture, meat/dairy culture, and religion? The talk about eradicating shit is in reference to doing away with society’s acceptance of what Davey perceives to be toxic behaviors and mindsets as they pertain to drugs, alcohol, meat/dairy consumption, and religion.

Because it’s not really any big secret that these are things Davey has a pretty big problem with, like he’s not been quiet about that in interviews and in songs and look, like...I like AFI and shit, but I do find some of that shit to be borderline obnoxious

I bought into straight edge culture at one point in time and thought myself morally superior and better than, etc.,etc and now I’m just like...let people fucking live their lives, man. If someone wants to get fucked up on drugs, that’s their choice. If someone wants to believe in something I don’t, I’m cool with that as long as they don’t try to force it down my throat. If someone wants to eat meat and consume dairy I’m cool, just don’t insist that everyone else do the same and we’ll be okay

So yeah, on that level that kinda makes him a dick, like I get that he has strong feelings about this shit, but the name XTRMST itself suggests that he knows as much but he’s gonna go ahead with it anyway

But like I said, I get how you could look at that, especially given everything else, and be like, “Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes” And I could be totally ass wrong about this, I really could

My thing is, though...I’m trying not to go into this with confirmation bias. Like...I think people are understandably uncomfortable and displaced with the EYOT shit, fine. But I think now people are looking into other things and trying to find further evidence to compound this situation and I just...I’m not sure it’s really there???

Again, I could be totally, totally ass wrong and if I am then believe you me I’ll be right there with you throwing away all my posters and albums and shit because fucking no, man

But like...before I start just burning everything down and wailing and screaming I’m gonna try to take a step back and really think about this shit and think about what the other possible explanations could be

Ideally, yes, they would be 100% up front about this and it would be clear as fucking DAY where they stand and I realize that’s caused a lot of anxiety and uncertainty and I feel ya on that one, I do

But I think it’s also worth noting that like...people have pointed out how good Hunter and Adam especially have been about speaking out against all the bullshit that’s been happening lately in the world and with politics. And if nothing else, maybe that’s something to consider?

Because here’s the thing, either these two are somehow completely hookwinked by their bandmates and somehow would have just no-fucking-clue whatsoever that they’ve been friends with Nazis for like 20 some odd years and they’re completely innocent in this or...

They’re okay with it. They don’t think it’s that big of a deal and by proxy then, they’re assholes as well and belong in the trash right alongside Davey and Jade

And I would hope to fuckin’ god that Adam especially isn’t in the latter category because heyyyyy someone tell his wife she needs to fuckin’ run because apparently Adam’s down with his bandmates wanting to kill her

So, there’s that.

Again, like...I’m not here trying to excuse a bunch of shit and act like, “my faves aren’t problematic!!!” because uh, yeah, they are

Personally, I’m of the camp that I think Davey’s clothing line disaster was an effort to try to pay homage to the occult/witchcraft shit it’s just...so many of those fuckin’ symbols and shit are tainted now and should probably go in the fucking trash, Idk. Being that that’s the theme I could understand why there’s an image of a church with a noose in front of it because correct me if I’m wrong, but supposed witches were hung in the gallows in addition to being burned and thrown in rivers with pockets full of stones and being that this persecution came from churches, well...ya know

But again, the image of a noose brings up a lot of other shit that, given this whole situation makes people go, “Eh????” so I get that, I do, I’m just saying like...that’s not the only explanation, especially when you put the image in the context of what at least was trying to be intended here

Again, though, I could very well be wrong and this whole thing could Davey’s way of trying to make his Nazi affiliation be known, I’m not necessarily ruling that one out because the world’s a fucking garbage dump, my country’s basically on fire, and I say you kill your heroes and fly, fly baby don’t cry because people you look up to usually end up disappointing and devastating you in some way or another, right? Might as well go big or go fuckin’ home in this case

As of right now, though, right in this moment I’m sorry but I can’t get on this bandwagon of, “Let’s throw all AFI shit away and wash my hands of this!!!” because I feel like this is a clusterfuck of a situation and that there are other explanations besides, “Well clearly this is the work of some racist mother fuckers who want ethnic cleansing”

Yes, XTRMST lyrics are...what they are and maybe I’m being misdirected by the creators themselves, but if you look at the songs again from the lens of someone who’s talking about rejecting/destroying these things that he finds abhorrent (again, drug culture, religion, consumption of meat/dairy, drinking) it leaves less room to interpret it as, “Oh, well clearly this is all about ridding the world of races other than white”

Hold Davey accountable for his misstep with his clothing line and keep trying to reach out, try to get him to listen because I agree that even if his intentions were good, even if he was trying to reclaim these images back to their original context, given the climate of things right now it’s A. not really his place to be doing so and B. just overall not a good idea and comes off as super sketchy and not okay

But I will implore you, if I can, to not jump to conclusions. To not try to twist every lyric you find that has the word “white” in it into something it’s more than likely not. And to just sort of take a step back if you’re starting to feel overwhelmed and upset

Also to realize that yes, we need to do our best to recognize and identify and reject symbols that have Nazi affiliations, but to also realize that guys, there are...a fuck ton. Because as I said in my other post, that’s part of their insidious nature is to hijack shit that doesn’t belong to them and fucking taint it and ruin it for everyone else. The fucking Swastika should tell you as much (and although there are cultures that have since given up the symbol there are some that still continue to use it because it belonged to them first and they refuse to let someone take it from them, fair enough).

In the case of the occult/witchcraft symbolism Nazis have borrowed pretty heavily from this well. The image of three figures cloaked in black has been circulating with some of these posts. These, again, are images meant to signify the occult, these are as far as I know meant to represent witches. The pointed hood, however, lends itself to klan imagery which came after and which stole from this look, taking the all black look and turning it all white. You could then argue that continuing to use the all black imagery is a middle finger to the klan for trying to re-purpose and make shitty what doesn’t belong to them, but that’s sort of a tricky area, I think. I’ve seen recent photos taken of covens at some of the protests that have been happening and these individuals are still wearing the black garb with pointed hoods because it’s still integral to their imagery. If the two are too similar, though, I think we need to have a larger discussion then about what needs to be done in those communities regarding certain imagery, wardrobe, and symbolism and if Davey wants to get in on that and contribute in a positive way, then great. If not then that’s unfortunate and we need to continue to try to address that point with him.

And here’s the thing, like...I get it, man. Nobody wants to be the fucking asshole. Nobody wants to have egg on their face and it’s better to err on the side of caution by just saying, “Yeah, they’re probably a bunch of racist Nazi fucks, fuck them” because if you’re wrong then...oh well, but if you’re right then you dodged a bullet and you have the satisfaction of knowing that you made the right call

At the same time, though, maybe don’t make villains out of people because they’ve done problematic shit? Still hold them accountable for what they’ve done wrong, absolutely, but like...you don’t have to go on a fucking treasure hunt to uncover more fucked up shit that might not even be there to support your argument

I think the clothing line shit within itself is bad enough without having to take lyrics out of their original context in order to say, “And as you can see, this clearly proves my point that these dudes are racist as FUCK”

They may very well be, but I guess I say all of this to say I’m gonna need something besides what’s been provided to convince me and maybe that’s just shitty and terrible and ignorant of me, maybe I’m being a stubborn fan here, but I’m just not seeing it.

I am seeing the problems with EYOT (even though I don’t think there quite as severe as some have made them out to be) but when I see these posts dragging out lyrics and shit all I can think is: it’s not that deep

I understand that this is a serious and sensitive issue and I’m not saying people are wrong for being concerned, but...being that it’s a serious and sensitive issue I guess I want to see it treated with a little more care than just going, “Well, he used the word white in a song so clearly he’s racist” or “he used occult imagery that’s since been tainted by Nazi use so let’s rule out the possibility that he’s misguidedly trying to reclaim these images and instead insist that it means he’s a full blown Nazi because here’s some pictures of witches with pointed hoods and a picture of a church on fire, clearly this can’t have anything to do with his views on religion or interest in the occult, it’s gotta be the Nazi thing and the Nazi thing only and if you say different then you’re a Nazi, too!”. Like is that really helping? Nazis are a legitimate problem right now, we’re dealing with some serious shit and there are people insisting that if you don’t reach to connect these dots that you’re the real problem here. I realize that not all Nazis exist in the spot light, not all Nazis do super obvious Nazi shit, but like...we’re also not going anywhere if we’re going to, forgive me, go on a witch hunt.

Be skeptical, keep your eyes open, pay attention, watch this EYOT closely and like I said, keep trying to push this point with him if you can and hopefully we’ll get some answers or going forward he’ll start using symbols that haven’t been tainted in his designs instead. But digging into lyrics and taking shit that’s honestly likely about failed relationships and straight edge culture and twisting it to fit a certain narrative isn’t really helping anything. You can still be 100% on your fuckin’ guard about this shit without having to reach

By all means, if I end up being wrong you can come rub it in my face and tell me how badly I have fucked up and how wrong and stupid I am, but I honestly, i feel like people are jumping to conclusions here and I’m not saying there’s no basis for it whatsoever, because there is unfortunately, and I understand the mindset of “no fucking excuses” and that’s fine, but like...these arguments are just not that good, my dudes. Beyond the already established problematic use of symbols in EYOT the rest of this is relying on taking things out of context and finding a way to apply it to this particular situation and it may in all actuality be completely valid and I’m just too blind to see that right now, but I just...yeah, I can’t get on this particular outrage train

From what I’ve seen from this band so far is that even though some of its members are a little extreme in their edge life shit that overall they’ve been on the progressive side of things and before you say anything like I get it, there are people who are fairly liberal and supposedly open-minded who are still racist sacks of shit and I understand that, I’m just saying it’s something else to keep in mind

We need to be aware of who the enemies are, for goddamn sure, but I think it’s also important that we don’t make enemies out of people who might not actually be enemies.

Do your own research. Look into these symbols, see what their origins are and what the other meanings consist of. Think about shit for yourself, not just what someone else is telling you to think. You can take everything I’ve said and throw it out the goddamn window if you don’t agree and that’s fine because I don’t want someone to just mindlessly read what I’m saying and go, “Yep, that sounds good, I’m gonna believe that now!”

I think people mean well and I think you’re trying to do the right thing, I do, but I see a loooooot of people who just let someone else dictate to them what is and isn’t good and bad. Someone posts an argument and it sounds convincing and suddenly everyone’s on board with that, they’re fully behind it, but someone poses a counter argument that’s just as convincing and suddenly there’s some doubt there, there’s some uncertainty and people are reevaluating their feelings

I know it’s tempting to sit back and let someone else do your thinking for you, I fall prey to this as well, but I implore you to really take a step back here and reassess and if you feel the same way then that’s totally fine, I won’t hold it against you, but I just...I really feel like this is verging on fear-mongering and I can’t get behind it

#AFI #Davey Havok #Jade Puget #EYOT #A Fire Inside

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comicteaparty · 6 years ago

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October 11th, 2018 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on October 11th, 2018, from 5PM - 7PM PDT. The chat focused on Four Corners by Boniae.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing Four Corners by Boniae~! (http://fourcorners.smackjeeves.com/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

RebelVampire

one of my favorite scenes is actually when hideki and kazuhiro have their little confessions. i really loved the silence, pacing, and paneling in that moment. the time it took to depict it and the fact that the images were allowed to speak for themselves made it a really great moment with fantastic atmosphere.

another scene that i quite enjoyed was when we first see ranmaru. i felt like itd been quite a while since there was a good fight, so it was good to see. but i also like the story effects the scene had. since this was really the moment hideki stopped toeing the line and was ready to admit he was in it for something more. and i think this sort of fighting parallel worked well with having such a pivotal character development

less of a scene, but in general i liked that whole chapter where hideki and kazuhiro spend time together. it was nice to see them bond over not work and learn a ton more about hideki. i think as a whole it was a needed chapter because it helped bring the characters closer together to create a stronger dynamic for what i imagine will be many troubles ahead

mathtans

I made it! ^.^ I only got partly into Chapter 5, busy week... for everyone, apparently.

I'm guessing the bonding was mostly in Chapter 5, that seemed to be where it was heading.

Superjustinbros

Hello!

RebelVampire

yes it was chapter 5

cause i had to look just now XD

mathtans

Was Ranmaru the guy who drugged people?

(I'm bad with names, for the record. Every week.)

Superjustinbros

Can I just say that I'm in love with the art style?

mathtans

I liked seeing how the art evolved over time myself.

Superjustinbros

It's very manga-like and I like how the faces don't go overblown with details

RebelVampire

yes ranmaru was the guy who drugged me.

yeah i also like the art style in regards to the setting. its got a kind of older manga nostalgia feel to it

but the art evolution is also fun. i forgot how diff that first chapter was (cause this is my 2nd time reading the entire comic for the record)

mathtans

Okay, then yeah, I also liked the scene with Ranmaru and the two of them fighting (I'm assuming you meant that, since I think the first time we see Ranmaru he's with the fortune teller).... though part of the reason I liked it was because the guy had call waiting for another fight or something.

Superjustinbros

I actually never thought that it looks like the "vintage manga" style until you mentioned it

mathtans

I noticed a mention that the comic had been reviewed in StArt Faire.

Superjustinbros

That's cool

mathtans

Yeah, and it went from shading to colour - I think the artist said it was to deal better with shading? I might be misremembering. Interesting.

RebelVampire

yeah i meant the fighting scene. sorry. im like on 3 hours of sleep atm and havent quite woken up to full function yet.

but yeah i liked how the fight was ultimately ended by a phone call

like that takes a lot of gall, but i like how it shows off ranmaru's character of not really giving a damn about their little fight that much

mathtans

Not a problem, I understood, and the wee one kept me up last night here too.

Yeah, that's true, it went to characterization.

Then there was the little bonus comic (non-canon) where he was called away to talk about types of shirts. I gravitate towards the humourous bits.

Superjustinbros

That sounds cute, lol

mathtans

It's cool that in a comic like this which has fighting and relationship issues, that there's still fun to be had.

Superjustinbros

Indeed

I mean if it was nothing but those two it'd get boring/repetitive.

mathtans

I dunno, they have pretty good chemistry. But yeah, not totally feasible for world building.

I want to see Hideki at an all you can eat buffet.

RebelVampire

yeah. i really like that the gang focused on also is a gang who is just going around protecting ppl and stuff. i think that gives them a needed high ground for what the comic is doing.

hideki at an all you can eat buffet sounds spooky XD

Superjustinbros

Well it's almost Halloween so X3

mathtans

Yeah, that was an interesting take on gangs! Doesn't seem to net them any additional popularity in the school though (or with the ladies).

I wonder if "four corners" is from, like, if you're doing evil anywhere in the four corners of the room we'll spot you.

Superjustinbros

Well it's always good to see characters doing things outside what the audience expects them to always do

Helps flesh 'em out, if you know what I'm saying

RebelVampire

ya know ive never actually thought about what the name might stand for and now im curious

mathtans

Indeed.

Their founder really liked squares?

RebelVampire

i was just gonna make a square joke XD

Superjustinbros

Quick, what's the square root of 24

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. Though some things have been revealed over the course of the comic, Hideki still remains quite the mystery. In what way do you think Hideki was involved with Four Corners in the past? Was he some sort of consultant, a member by association, or something else? Do you think Hideki really left gang life just to avoid violence, or do you think there is something more to it? What do you think he did that gave birth to the dark rumors surrounding him? Further, what is Hideki’s relationship with the man he keeps hallucinating on seeing? What exactly happened that seemed to cause Hideki such worry and trauma? Does it have something to do with why Hideki is so knowledgeable about gang activity? Lastly, do you think his current involvement will have negative consequences for his future, especially in regards to taking over for his father?

mathtans

A bit under 5, SJ.

Superjustinbros

Nice

mathtans

Well, Hideki's family is into big business and all, maybe he was just looking for something to analyze in that sense, like as you say a consultant or something... makes sense that he would attempt the same thing later with ... ... damn it, I forget name of protagonist. x.x

RebelVampire

kazuhiro

mathtans

Starts with Y.

Superjustinbros

Thanks Rebel

mathtans

Oh, right.

That's not even a Y. (Is there a character page? I always need one to keep everybody straight, it's the visuals I remember more than the names.)

RebelVampire

http://fourcorners.smackjeeves.com/characters/

mathtans

Sweeeeeet. I didn't remember seeing a link.

Superjustinbros

Nice hairstyles on these characters

mathtans

Anyway, back to what I was saying, maybe Hideki was just looking to apply his skills, and was turned off by the violence; maybe I just don't look that deep.

Superjustinbros

Keiichi especially

But I digress(edited)

RebelVampire

maybe although idk. itd be weird if hideki was involved cause of the business. but then again maybe his father has secret gang connections we dont know about? tbh tho i think he was just assumed to be part of the gang cause he followed keiichi around. that and was into his own sort of trouble.

keiichi does have great hair

Superjustinbros

http://i.imgur.com/qvXivUg.png Dare I say he looks like a total daddy

RebelVampire

so i assume the man hideki was seeing is arakawa (fortune teller guy), though i didnt want to be presumptious in the question. so im wondering how the heck do they know each other. cause im worried hideki tried to join the yakuza or something but then chickened out. and thus sought refuge with the four corners when the yakuza were mad

mathtans

Oh, that'd be interesting, Dad with secret connections. Or maybe the mastermind behind everything is a half brother Hideki doesn't know about. And he keeps getting pulled in by those forces.

Arakawa is half brother. Calling it now.

Superjustinbros

That would be an interestign twist

RebelVampire

i did consider that. or if the mystery man and arakawa are two diff ppl, the mystery man is hideki's secret brother.

mathtans

Hideki maybe got in over his head and figured he might need the gang, perhaps? But then realized he could just run away and that worked better, so gave it up.

I'm impressed, I just came up with random crazy plot off the top of my head.

RebelVampire

that could be maybe. although idk where hideki's quitting resides with keiichi's death

mathtans

Or maybe part of Hideki was thinking he was gay, and gangs are largely guys, and so he figured he'd try it out as a way to meet more guys, but then was turned off by the actual fighting and stuff. Because he hadn't met best fighter Kazuhiro yet.

RebelVampire

it could be keiichi died before hideki quit

and hideki was like peace out

mathtans

Hmm. Maybe but I didn't get the vibe from the timelines.

RebelVampire

i didnt get it either but hard to say for sure.

i do think hideki had a run in with the yakuza in some way. cause itd make sense then why hed know how to watch gangs or something. and itd explain why hideki's cousin was super extra worried at the path hideki was starting down again

or maybe...keiichi was the one in the yakuza all along O_O and hideki found out and was like "how dare"

mathtans

Oooh, there's a twist.

Superjustinbros

That'd be... kinda scary

mathtans

I've been continuing my reading in the background and just got to this page: http://fourcorners.smackjeeves.com/comics/2456598/ch5p18/. Maybe Hideki is rebelling a bit about the fact that his future is laid out for him? Could explain some of the worry about him, as well as his investigative skills.

"I don't want to be a businessman. I want to be a private detective."

RebelVampire

yeah on a more mundane but equally believable level, it couldve just been youthful rebellion. albeit id more believe that keiichi helped hideki with some bullies or something and hideki was like "wow if i learn to fight i can control more own life." and he just happened to be super good at it

i wonder if well get to see hideki's dad ever cause that could be an illuminating conversation

Superjustinbros

I wonder which of those two occupations would be more troublesome to work in

RebelVampire

which two occupations?

mathtans

Could be. (I think we saw his dad in a flashback panel or something, but he doesn't seem to be around. Maybe Hideki was also hoping to get Dad's attention?)

Superjustinbros

The ones Match mentioned

mathtans

Businessman or private detective, I wager.

Hideki just needs to make friends with a gourmet chef. Oh wait, he has Kazuhiro there.

RebelVampire

i dont think hideki's relationship with his dad is bad. but maybe his dad has all the answers. is like "hideki i know you miss your secret brother"

and businessman is probably harder

given the setting

mathtans

Oh whoa, comic has multiple languages. (I guess when we see English they're actually speaking Japanese, and so this is... chinese?)

Yeah, his family relations don't seem bad, just distant.

Superjustinbros

I heard Japanese

mathtans

I'm still reading Chapter 5, they just met Hideki's cousin.

Oh, Taiwanese. Helps to keep reading.

RebelVampire

yeah youre gonna see some info about hideki there

which shows his dad is actually not that bad a dude just busy and socially awkward

mathtans

Maybe Hideki's mixed heritage is also how he ended up so aloof.

Superjustinbros

Perhaps

RebelVampire

yeah. hideki has a lot of demons there i think. or had cause i feel he seems probably more adjusted than he used to be? not that hes fully healed but he seems less troubled than in that one flashback

mathtans

Seeing the banter reminds me of another scene I liked, after Hideki had turned down the girl or whatever, and Kazuhiro is hiding and then he goes... wait, why am I hiding?

RebelVampire

yes i enjoyed that moment too. especially cause i was already laughing wondering why he was hiding.

in terms of comedy i like hideki with his "friends"

and his magical excuses to leave

QUESTION 3. Besides Hideki and Kazuhiro, we also see several scenes with the villainous Arakawa who seems to be immensely involved with what’s happening to the gangs. What do you think Arakawa’s aim is? Is it a solo goal, or does it have something to do with the yakuza? For what reason do you think Arakawa hides under an assumed identity? Is it related to his goals, or is there a different reason for it? Do you think Arakawa is still even part of the yakuza in full? For what reason do you think Arakawa tolerates Ranmaru, and how might Arakawa’s plans change to deal with him? Finally, Arakawa mentions fortune-telling and how knowing what’s going to happen beforehand is a viable strategy. What do you think this might mean for what’s going on in the story, and do you think Hideki and Kazuhiro will be able to handle it?

Superjustinbros

Money, dear boy

RebelVampire

i mean its possible. although if arakawa wanted money i dont think hed be worked a service industry manager cover story.

mathtans

Right. Also interesting how at the festival when he left his friends and encountered Kazuhiro that he played it off as the guy's just another friend from a year down.

The Arakawa fortune telling thing is an interesting angle. I wonder if he can do readings on people without their knowledge. I also wonder if he just tries to make things come true that he sees, like a self-fulfiling prophecy.

Superjustinbros

That would be interesting

mathtans

As far as tolerating Ranmaru goes, sometimes it's fun to have someone around to tease? ^.^

Superjustinbros

yus

RebelVampire

oh thats a good line of thought. id never consider that arakawa meant he didnt actually tell the future. he meant that he just makes the future happen to suit his vision

maybe hideki was arakawa's apprentice and arakawa was trying to teach hideki all about fortune reading but hideki was like "fortune telling isnt profitable" and bailed

im gonna go the simple route with theories and say arakawa's goal is simply to eliminate competition. cause he wants to push the drugs but cant do so easily when gangs are around protecting territories. so hes just making it easy for himself

mathtans

Hideki preferred using a crystal ball, but only amateurs use crystal balls, so they had a falling out.

That makes some sense, except why knock the gangs out rather than simply cutting a deal with them or something?

Pride? Desire for a monopoly?

RebelVampire

desire for a monopoly. and like really why cut them in if theyre so simple to move out of the way. arakawa seems very much a play the long con game sort of guy. so if he has to put more in the overhead to get tons more profit later, hed probably do it

mathtans

(Oh, hey, a trans character, that's neat.)

I suppose, just seems like that would call more attention to you, putting down all the gangs, which is something Arakawa wants to avoid. Maybe that's also why he has Ranmaru, to act as a lightning rod?

Superjustinbros

(Good to have them trans characters, always)

mathtans

(Wow, Hideki's pretty sharp, picking up on things.)

Superjustinbros

So sharp he can easily pierce through steel

RebelVampire

but is anyone gonna care about gangs besides gangs? cause nobody of the general public seems irritated that the gangs are being taken out XD

but yeah i do think this is why ranmaru is around

Superjustinbros

RebelVampire

he can deal with the gangs and is crazy enough to follow arakawa

mathtans

I suppose there's that. I wonder why the Four Corners is being targeted now? Is it just they were next in the region, or if there's some method behind it? Like, maybe Arakawa's behind Keiichi too.

RebelVampire

are they being specific target tho? cause i took the 'they're next' thing as more metaphorical. in the sense that theyre on the chopping block in general and could be next or they could be taken out at any time

mathtans

Not sure, just wondering if there's more to it somehow.

RebelVampire

there could be

QUESTION 4. Compared to the present, Kazuhiro’s time before the Four Corners seems drastically different. Do you think their walk-out father is the only reason Kazuhiro and Keiichi had a strained relationship? Or was there something else going on between them? Why do you think Keiichi started the Four Corners, and why do you think Keiichi kept up with it in the face of his family’s disapproval? Why do you think Kazuhiro was so compelled to take over the Four Corners, especially considering the drastic change in personality and style he underwent? Do you think Kazuhiro will be able to uphold Keiichi’s ideals and save the Four Corners at the end of the day? Also, do you think he’ll repair some of his relationship with his sisters, or will his pursuits continue to cause a rift? Lastly, do you think Keiichi died of natural causes, or was his death caused by sinister means?

RebelVampire

the keiichi segue

mathtans

Well played.

RebelVampire

i dont think keiichi died of natural causes. if nothing more than the fact that nobody has yet said how he died in the comic and that is hella suspicious

Superjustinbros

yes

mathtans

Interesting point about Kazuhiro taking over Four Corners, given how they didn't get along too well, that didn't even fully register with me. Maybe he realized his brother had been trying to do good? Maybe he was even a member before Keiichi passed away? (I mean, you don't get promoted from outside, do you?)

Keiichi, suspiciously walked in front of a bus.

RebelVampire

idk id believe he got promoted from outside. if only because none of the other members ive seen strike me as leader types.

mathtans

There is that. He knows the gang members pretty well though.

RebelVampire

i do think theres some message of respect hidden behind why he took over. and he just didnt realize how much he respected his bro till it was too late

mathtans

Yeah, I can see that. Nice thought there.

(Made it through Chapter 5, OMG, the anniversary/april video at the end... that's amazing. And Arakawa has a magic 8 ball, hilarious!)

Superjustinbros

lol

I used to love those

mathtans

As to why Keiichi started it up, maybe a bunch of them wanted to clean up the four corners of the neighbourhood, and decided a gang would be the best way.

RebelVampire

maybe keiichi just thought if he tidied the neighborhood their dad would come home

although maybe keiichi felt he didnt belong to his own family. so he started the four corners to create that sense of family and fill the gap

mathtans

The sister relationship angle is also interesting, I liked that it was brought up back in chapter 2, to help put the family in perspective. Might be interesting if that one unapproving sister met Lei... um, the cousin character, not on the character page... they have some things in common.

Maybe. Lots of Dad issues on the part of both main characters, for different reasons.

boniae

(whispers) HI everyone!! btw im here just listening into the conversation and screaming on the inside dont mind me

Superjustinbros

Hello!!

I see you're the maker of this lovely little comic~

mathtans

Oh, hi creator! Hope you're screaming for good reasons.

boniae

Hi everyone!!! HAHA yes for good reasons!! Im so blown away by this conversation and just thank you all for reading it this week!!! ahhhh

mathtans

So yeah, as to whether Kazuhiro will save the Four Corners, I think obviously he'll die a tragic death saving Hideki, who goes off to become a monk. It paves the way for the sequel involving sister Kiyomi taking over the Four Corners next.

Superjustinbros

Heehee, glad you're enjoying the show.

RebelVampire

glad you could make it, @boniae ~!

Superjustinbros

Well there's only about 15 minutes left so...

I'm sure you got my comments on the art style when I popped in earlier

also lol Math

RebelVampire

haha i did kind of route for kiyomi taking over. just an endless cycle of respect, the four corners will never die. its why the mom had kids.

Superjustinbros

oh yes

mathtans

Actually, Mom had four kids... and they're the four corners gang... coincidence?

It was the Boxing club in the video parody.

boniae

@Superjustinbros YES AH thank you im so glad you like my art?! @RebelVampire LMFAOO

Superjustinbros

Aay, you're welcome! It some really good art you got going on~

boniae

@mathtans somebody's onto me...... you know too much....

Superjustinbros

lol, that's math for ya

mathtans

Or possibly too little. But maybe Keiichi had wanted a boxing club and was rejected and figured, I'll start a gang instead then.

Then someone dropped a piano on him. Tragic.

Superjustinbros

Math running a gang

I can sense all the incoming math puns

RebelVampire

couldnt get enough members to make a boxing club, but everyone was totally up for a gang

Superjustinbros

and characters with outrageous hair

mathtans

Oh, speaking of gang members, just wanted to add that Azumi's an interesting member. Not just for the female perspective, but how she seemed to know how to push Hideki's buttons.

RebelVampire

yeah i also liked that azumi had been around when keiichi was. cause i think that adds an interesting dimension to the whole kazuhiro takes over thing. since he really did kind of overtake more likely ppl to take over

mathtans

Yes, that too. You can see how the continuity goes through the two leaders, and there's still respect there.

Superjustinbros

Yuh

RebelVampire

i wanna see more of the gang in general tho. especially makoto since hes supposedly a great but unreliable fighter

Superjustinbros

mathtans

Started a bit into Chapter 6. Interesting fleshing out of the 'villain' characters. There's a lot of interesting characters overall.

Superjustinbros

I second Rebel's comment

mathtans

Could work as a flashback. "Remember the time Makoto slept in for the big fight?"

Actually, some of the flashback stuff has been interesting in it's own right. And I felt like it was well placed. Like, relevant.

RebelVampire

since makoto liked manga apparently, i hope the context of them seeing him fight was that someone told him his waifu was trash

yeah i really loved getting to actually see past hideki in the house and kazuhiro being grump master of glares

mathtans

Heh. Gotta pick your battles.

Superjustinbros

And pick them well

mathtans

Ranmaru prefers to just let things happen. He's gonna annoy the wrong person the wrong way some time... needs to adopt Hideki's "run away" strategy more often.

RebelVampire

are there any final comments anyone wants to share?

mathtans

One last thought, I wonder if the setting of 1995 is relevant? Or is that just to avoid cell phones?

Superjustinbros

Nothing much, other than that I'd like to quickly wish Boniae success on the comic, it's coming along great so far and I'm sure it'll grow to be even bigger!

mathtans

(My history is pretty bad.)

Or maybe it's to have Makoto be a fan of the anime back then.

boniae

Aww thank you so much!!! I appreciate this so much you guys!!! and LMFAO i legit dont even remember why I picked 1995, I think it was on a whim and then realized i had/have to do so much research to see if things existed and what was happening in 1995

mathtans

I guess we'll see then! Thanks!

Superjustinbros

You're welcome, @boniae!

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Boniae, as well, for making Four Corners. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Boniae’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: http://fourcorners.smackjeeves.com/

Boniae’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/boniae

Boniae’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/cooljalebis

Comic Tea Party- Thursday Book Club

Next week’s Thursday Book Club will be about The Origin Story by Carolin Reich. For participants, you have the next week to read as much of the comic as you would like~! We hope to see you on Thursday, October 18th, from 5PM to 7PM PDT for the chat in #thursday_bookclub!

Comic’s Main Site: https://tapas.io/series/The-Origin-Story

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic tea party #ctp #comic chat #comic discussion #book club #bookclub #webcomic bookclub #webcomic book club #four corners #boniae

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