#people put a lot of blame on all the straight Hades Persephone stuff

[ibswarriors2nd]

Omg people are for real discoursing about Greek mythology shipping on TikTok. Like, fam, have any of you you actually read Greek mythology?

[c-is-for-circinate]

So uh, would the end of runs count as an escalation of the abuse? Like Ik it's a last resort to stop Zagreus from leaving, but it also shows that he has no qualms with hurting Zag to get what he wants.

I definitely had not yet gotten to the end of a run when you sent this ask, nonny, and I was all set to scold you gently for spoilery stuff, but you were actually trying very hard to be nonspecific and this only pinged as a spoiler because I was already pretty sure how things were going to end anyway.  So good job trying to be vague!  I have now fought through to what is fairly clearly the final boss, and my answer is, categorically, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING YES.

(We are going to just keep putting Hades posts under cuts until they stop being about a parent abusing their kid! I realize this helps nobody on mobile and I am tagging for that purpose but hey, at least I might save someone's dash! I swear I will talk about other things in this game eventually! Until then, once again, CW abuse.)

It’s not even about the violence, entirely.  Like, yes, it’s about the violence--but Hades has shown all along that he has no qualms with hurting Zag (with killing him, over and over again) to get what he wants.  Even if we take most of the enemies we’re facing as general nuisances of the zones we travel through, and not Hades’ doing (and oh, if Hades wanted he could give Zagreus a safe escort through those zones in an instant), there are obstacles put in our way that are obviously and deliberately commanded by Hades to stop us at all costs.  The level bosses, for one.  (Also, remember the Hades voiceovers we get at every ‘survive for 45 seconds’ level?)  He wants us to stop.  He wants us to die, and yes we’ll come back, but he’s still setting his employees to hurt us, so like, that’s very much a thing to begin with.

The fact that he’s willing to take up arms against us and kill us himself probably feels like a big escalation to Hades personally.  What really gets me is the dialogue.  “I have always kept my temper, unlike you.”  Wildly revisionist history, placing all of the blame for what’s about to happen on Zagreus the victim for ‘making me do this’. The absolute disgust and disdain, when he finally gets us.  “I have slain titans, boy.”  He’s spent a lot of time throwing scathing remarks in our general direction, wanting us to bow under them, being blandly sarcastic and self-satisfied and smug, but he's never sounded like that.

Because, before now, he thought we couldn’t do what we set out to do.  He thought our suffering as we tried was its own punishment, and he enjoyed watching that punishment.  He did not watch us fail with the affectionate resignation of a parent watching a child learn a harsh lesson.  He watched us and gloated. 

The thing that infuriates him now is not that we’re trying to do the thing we literally said we were trying to do ninety-eight runs ago at the start of the game.  He could have stopped us from trying at any time.  Hypnos to put us to sleep.  Literal chains.  Had he bothered for five seconds to actually step into the courtyard beyond our room, we could be disarmed and helpless.  But it’s fun for him to watch us fail, and it proves that he’s right about us and how pathetic we are, and it reassures him that he’s right about the universe, that nobody can escape from Hades, that we are stupid and foolish and weak.  What drives him to such absolute fury now is not that we’re trying, but the fact that we’re about to succeed.  We’re going to prove him wrong, prove that he was wrong about how he handled this situation in the first place, and that’s flatly unacceptable. 

There is no interpretation of this fight that does not include Hades wanting us to feel inferior, subjugated, crushed.  It’s not about keeping us in his realm.  It’s about breaking us, for daring to try to escape in the first place.

No matter why he’s doing it.  And let’s get into that for a sec, the “it’s a last resort to stop Zagreus from leaving” bit.  At this point in the game, I don’t know why Hades is so desperate to stop Zag from leaving.  I haven’t found out yet!  Don’t tell me!  Don’t hint about it!  But from where I’m standing, I can see, hmm, five main possibilities?

He is trying to protect Zagreus from something on the surface.

He is trying to protect the world from Zagreus, whose arrival out of hell will destroy something/everything in some magic way that Hades knows about but keeps secret.

Zagreus is actually a prisoner, meant to be chained in the Underworld for crimes he doesn’t remember committing, Tisiphone is right, and we were meant to be as condemned as Sisyphus all along but Hades has been generous.

Hades made it law a long time ago that nobody and nothing escapes the Underworld, and Zagreus cannot be allowed to break that law because nobody breaks Hades’ laws, period.  He could have chosen to make an exception but he did not, so all of this is flagrantly illegal and needs to be punished.

Hades himself is trapped in the Underworld, or at least feels that way, and is projecting and taking it out on his kid.

My best guess is that it’s some combination of a few of those (like, I am fairly sure that #5 is absolutely true no matter what other reasons are in place as well).  Thing is?  While I’m curious about this mystery for the story’s sake, I also really fundamentally do not care.

Any one of these things could better have been accomplished by telling Zagreus literally anything.  Even if there’s magic and prophecy bullshit binding Hades away from explaining the whole truth, it is not hard to hint at vague disaster befalling innocent bystanders “because of cosmic reasons I am beholden to keep secret”.  Hell, Hades’ own life becomes easier if he restrains himself just the tiniest bit in an effort to make Zagreus not want to leave in the first place.  Hades clearly does not want this to be happening!  He doesn’t seem to regret any of his actions, but he sure is annoyed and infuriated that he has to go through the trouble of doing them.  Literally one explanation could solve so much.

If the reason is to protect Zagreus?  Then it is one thousand times bullshit, and I think the game knows that.  (The game has to know that.)  When your kid is so miserable that they’d rather flee straight into traffic to escape you, then your kid is not safe.  Nothing that could hurt him on the surface--finding out that Persephone doesn’t love him and never did and in fact wants him dead and tortured for eternity--is any worse than what he’s facing down here.  He already knows one parent feels that way.  At least out of the Underworld he has the option to find some relatives who don’t.

And yet this situation doesn’t ping the “stupid plot that could never happen because it entirely rests on unrealistically shitty communication” sensors.  Because it absolutely, categorically makes sense for the Hades we’ve come to know to refuse to explain himself.  Whether he’s got good reasons or bad ones, HIS WORD IS LAW, and how dare anybody ask him to justify or clarify it, ever.

I am very very sure that Hades has lots of reasons: reasons for being furious, and bitter, and for making rules about his son never leaving the Underworld, and for being so desperate to enforce those rules, and for all of it.  Some of them may even be good.  What makes him an abuser, what those reasons do not and cannot justify, is the verbal and physical violence he uses against the people in his care to cope with those problems.

[reblogthiscrapkay]

What Got Better In Hadestown on Broadway (And What Got Worse)

So I saw Hadestown in London last December and I just saw it in New York last weekend (I’m not crazy rich; my boyfriend lives in London and I live a fairly reasonable drive from New York). Here is my hopefully somewhat concise breakdown of what has changed.

For my overly long analysis of Hadestown in London, click here.

For my concise list analysis of Hadestown in London, click here.

For my favorite essay on Hades’ politics, click here.

Good Changes:

1. Hermes’ role has been reinstated. In the original Hermes very much was the intermediary between the humans and the gods and was especially friendly with Orpheus and Persephone. In London he was weirdly distrant from everyone, standing in the corner the whole time and being very detatched. Now he’s more like Orpheus’ mentor and is very clearly a friend of Persephone in addition to his role as narrator (oh, and he’s no longer an unreliable narrator too).

2. More mythology stuff. In the beginning Hermes gives a bit more mythology stuff to the beginning. I don’t like how he straight up explains the myth of Hades and Persephone (Epic I existed for this reason, guys) but I like the background about Orpheus’ mom. Persephone’s mom gets more shout outs too.

3. Overall the first act is tighter. They didn’t change much from London but everything feels smoother somehow. One of my favorite examples of this is “All I’ve Ever Known.” I hated the choreography in London but they really fixed it. Now it’s much simplier and follows a very logical progression. When Eurydice first sings, “Now I wanna hold you” she does so while gripping his arms as if she’s fighting the desire because she’s still unsure. By the music breakdown they do the simulated sex thing (although it felt less weird than in London), showing her accepting her feelings, and the last verse involves her sitting up from the floor as if she can’t sleep because she’s genuinely afraid he may leave her. It’s beautiful.

4. The costumes are more cohesive. I said that I liked the human costumes in London as clothes but they drove me nuts because they were so anachronistic with the gods costumes. Now they’re all looking more “vaguely early 20th century.” I love how Eurydice’s costume looks like she literally bought a nightgown and a vest from a thrift shop. Also, minor details but I think they added wings to Hermes’ suit (didn’t notice before if they did) and Hades’ nylon sleeve wall tattoo doesn’t look as bad as I thought it would. Although Hades’ hair is slightly different and it’s not better.

5. More humor. They’ve added in some humor and it mostly all works. There’s a moment when Hermes says to Orpheus, “Don’t come on too strong” and he responds with, “Come home with me!” Persephone before singng “Our Lady of the Underground” drunkenly stumbs out and shouts “Step into MY office.” Also after two lines of “Epic III” Hades interrupts with, “Oh, it’s about me” which made everyone laugh.

6. The Fates. I think I forget about them a lot but I was startled by how much they KILLED it in this show.

7. They brought back most of the original New York musicians. I just thought this was cute. When Persephone is naming them in “Our Lady of the Underground” I was shook.

8. Amber Gray grabs her boob. To explain, in London “Our Lady of The Underground” was performed with the workers and they raid her bag. Now it’s just her onstage, singing moreso to us. They clearly have it set up so that the chorus parts should be sung by the audience, and there was just enough audience who knew the lines to make it happen (this will probably improve over time). Instead of having her bag and wine bottles, she just has a flask on a string which she puts in her bra at the beginning of the song. At the line “I’ve got the wind right here in a jar” she grabs her boob where the flask is. Overall, I don’t know if this staging is an improvement, but this moment amused me.

Bad Things:

A lot of the bad things can be broken down by the phrase, “Why does she love him.” Also unfortunately, the bad things had really profund consequences.

1. Orpheus is an idiot now. He is a deer in headlights the whole dang show. I’ve thought it over and even with the lines that seemingly make him look stupid, if they were simply acted more sincerely and less awkwardly there wouldn’t be a problem. Because he is so dumb now, it makes no sense why Eurydice falls for him aside from the fact that he’s vaguely magic. The guy sitting to my right HATED him and blamed Reeve. I don’t know who’s responsible for this change but it really undermines the quality of the show and all the decent things I said about Reeve in London.

2. Hades is meaner. In London Hades and Persephone’s relationship was easily one of the strongest parts of the show. Now what used to be a lot of genuine sadness on Hades’ part seems to have turned into anger. “The girl means nothing to me” used to be a line that kind of hurt but it was said a bit too maliciously here. They’ve also added in other bits where they snip at each other and it makes me uncomfortable. Persephone is now present when Orpheus shows up in Hadestown and tries to speak for him and Hades tells her to be quiet. He also, very condescendingly, tells her, “Oh, go have another drink” before “How Long.” If this line had been said sadly, this would have read so differently. Persephone snips back at him in “Epic III” when she demands that he let Orpheus finish. They also cut the bit where Persephone is present when you find out the Eurydice didn’t sleep with Hades and her crying when Hades takes Eurydice to his office is WAY more subtle. They also cut her verse in “Chant II” which really affects their relationship. I didn’t even cry at any of their parts and I usually cry at all of them. I am worried.

3. Lots of the songs in Act II has been shortened. I thought something like this might happen but I’m still sad about it. First they came for “Promises.” Now they also cut down “Chant II” (Persephone doesn’t even have a part in it anymore, why), “His Kiss, The Riot” “If It’s True” “Epic III” and “Way Down Hadestown II” and “Doubt Comes In” felt shorter too but I could be wrong. “Lover’s Desire” didn’t even sound like the same song which majorly messed me up because that song usually makes me bawl like a baby. Also, all the “Epic” s are now the same song over and over. I hate this because the “Epic”s before showed this nice progression of Orpheus writing about the gods in general to realizing that he needs to tell the story of their love. Now he realizes this in “Chant I” but at least they made it seem like he realized this on his own and didn’t tell Eurydice so her leaving has gone back to being a reasonable solution. In London she seemed like she didn’t care he was trying to fix the world, but now she doesn’t know about it.

4. They still haven’t really integrated the worker subplot. And they probably won’t. I think you’d have to pry this out of someone’s cold dead hands at this point, which sucks because it still feels like a hastily slapped on “We have been left behind by the system” concept. Perhaps even worse, Persephone is now frequently positioned on the side of the workers instead of being an intermediary between them and Hades, which further weakens her relationship with Hades. Hades isn’t supposed to be the bad guy! Doubt is!

So anyway, Anais Mitchell walked past me during intermission and my friend Alex was like, “Are you going to talk to her” and I, a person who can’t ever talk to people if I think I may be bothering them, said, “Hell no, What would I even say.” “Just ‘thank you for the show.’” “I would definitely fuck up and say ‘Thank you for the show but please stop messing with it.’”

The joke later became me sidling up to her and saying, “One socialist to another, how much corporate nonsense is making you change things that didn’t need fixing.” I don’t think that would go over well though.

Anyway, they gave me a flower before I left and the shows not locked in until April 16th so I can dream for the next few days that they might fix it.