#patroclus fighting for his life

[johaerys-writes]

Hello! Do you mind a Snippet Sunday for any of your patrochilles fics? Have a nice day 😊

Hello! I've been working on As Fate Would Have It today, so here's a snippet of the next chapter (aka baby's first heat):

“You have to help me.” 

“What…” Patroclus starts, but doesn’t even know how to finish this sentence. His thoughts are slipping through his fingers like sand. Achilles’ scent is so potent here it almost brings him to his knees. It surrounds him, envelops him like a blanket; it doesn’t leave room for anything else. 

Achilles sits up straight on the furs, the blanket he had draped over himself slipping off his shoulders. He’s only wearing a short chiton beneath it and it’s a mess, one of the shoulder pins gone, the milky white fabric draping over his chest. His skin gleams with sweat, his neck and cheeks flushed a bright pink as if he’s touched it with rouge, or as if he has a fever. 

“Patroclus,” he says breathlessly, “Patroclus.” He pushes himself up on shaky legs and steps closer to him. His pupils are huge, bigger than Patroclus remembers ever seeing them. His eyes remind him of Thetis’ a little now, the pitch black irises almost swallowing up the white. “I need you.”

“What do you need?” Patroclus asks, slurring as if drunk, his tongue thick and sluggish in his mouth. Achilles catches his arm and holds onto him, and his skin is so hot like he’s on fire. Perhaps he really does have a fever, Patroclus thinks through his own delirium. 

Achilles’ features contort a little in pain, and he whimpers. “I need your help. You have to help me.” He pulls him back, towards his bed. 

“Wait, wait.” Patroclus swallows thickly and blinks rapidly, trying to shake off some of the haze. “You’re sick. There’s something wrong. I need to get you to Chiron. He’ll know how to help you.”

“No!” Achilles gasps in a panic, pulling him back when Patroclus tries to turn towards the exit of the cave. His grip on him tightens, holding him firmly in place; he’s grasping Patroclus’ forearm so tightly, his fingers dig into his flesh almost painfully. “You can’t leave, don’t leave.” 

“But—I don’t know how to help you,” Patroclus stutters, helpless under his hold and the intensity of that scent that instantly grows stronger. It’s sweet and sharp, like a mature fruit; he can think of nothing other than sinking his teeth into it. 

Into what? Achilles? It makes no sense. Patroclus must be going insane. Whatever Achilles has must be contagious. 

Achilles’ mouth falls open and his nostrils flare as he inhales. It’s like he’s in a trance, beyond himself. “Don’t leave,” he says again. He pulls Patroclus deeper inside the cave. “Come, look what I made. I made it for you, for us.” 

“For me?” Patroclus asks dubiously, hoping this isn’t one of Achilles’ weird gifts again. 

Achilles nods, a bit frantic, then finally lets him go, the print of his fingers clear and pink against Patroclus’ skin. He turns around and kneels on his bed. It’s more like a nest, by the looks of it, a semicircle of pillows and blankets and furs and odd scraps of fabric. He arranges it frantically, kneading the pillows and setting them upright against the wall of the cave, fluffing up the blankets and the furs. He pulls out a piece of fabric and holds it up to his face, inhaling deeply from it, then hiding it back beneath the mass of bedding. 

“Was that… my tunic?” Patroclus asks, incredulous. He did lose one of his tunics the other day; he had left it in the laundry basket, intending to wash it the next day, then never saw it again. He had assumed a badger or a fox might have stolen it to take it back to their burrows, but it seems he was mistaken.

Achilles looks back at him over his shoulder, but doesn’t look guilty at all for having been caught red-handed. “It smells good,” he says simply. “It smells like you.” 

Patroclus’ mouth falls open at that. He doesn’t know what on earth to say; and it turns out, he doesn’t need to say anything, as Achilles promptly takes his hand and pulls him down to his nest. 

“Do you like it?” he asks anxiously. “Do you like what I made?” 

“Yes,” Patroclus says, sinking into the piles of furs and pillows. “It’s… comfortable. Warm. Safe. I like it.” 

Achilles lets out a shaky exhale, a visible shiver running through him. He stares at Patroclus for a long moment, his nostrils flaring again; and then he crawls to him, straddling Patroclus’ leg and pushing his fur coat off his shoulders.

“What—what are you doing?” Patroclus stutters, shocked, his skin prickling when the cool air touches it, despite the fire crackling nearby. He tries to reach for his coat again to pull it over him, but Achilles sets his hands on his shoulders and presses himself against him. 

“I need you,” he pants. “I need you.” 

[puyoupuyou]

daydreaming pyrrha

[gingermintpepper]

One of my biggest pet peeves is the assumption that something has to be sad for it to be tragic.

I've always been a big believer of the 'Apollo has an awful love life'/'Apollo is plain unlucky with love' line of thinking but it does bother me that the general reasoning for that statement is given to the concept of 'Apollo is somehow undesireable and thus rejected' (Cassandra/Daphne/Marpessa) or 'his lovers die young and thus their love is unfulfilled' (Cyparissus/Hyacinthus/Coronis). I personally think that's a very unfortunate way of looking at things - not only because it neglects the many perfectly cordial entanglements and affairs Apollo has had, both mortal and divine - but because it presents a very shallow interpretation of the concepts of love and loss and how loss affects people.

Apollo can still grieve lovers that have a long, healthy life. The inherent tragedy of an immortal who knows his lovers and children will die and cannot stop it does not stop being tragic simply because those lovers and children live long, fulfilled lives. The inherent tragedy of loss does not stop being tragic simply because someone knows better than to mourn something that was always going to end.

What is tragic is not that Apollo loves and loses but that loss itself follows him. Apollo does not love with the distance of an immortal, he does not have affairs and then leaves never to listen to their prayers again. He does not have offspring and then abandon them to their trials only to appear when it is time to lead them to their destinies. He raises his young, he protects the mothers of his children, he blesses the households that have his favour and multiplies their flocks that they may never go hungry. He educates his sons, he adorns his daughters and even in wrath he is quick to come to his senses and regret the punishments he doles out.

Apollo loves. And like mortals, there will always be some part of him that wishes to protect the objects of his affections. Apollo, however, is also an emissary of Fate. He knows that the fate of all mortal things is death. He knows that to love a mortal is to accept that eventually he will have to bury them. There is no illusion of forever, there is no fantasy where he fights against the nature of living things and shields his beloveds from death. Apollo loves and because of that love, he also accepts.

And that, while beautiful, is also tragic.

[wizardnaturalist]

fascinated by this idea that hector went to his death nobly, accepting? he died begging

[smokey07]

Homer: Are you aware that many Iliad characters are first time fathers? That all of them in one way or another misses a big chunk of their children’s life or never gets to see it at all?

Also Homer: leaves and never elaborates

A doodle for random parenting shiz basically. Order from left to right, top to bottom:

-Menelaus carrying a sleepy Hermione. @hermesmoly I was drawing this when the request came lolol

-Achilles and baby Neo. I don’t know if it’s a thing in other places but hanging on father’s leg and then let him moves it back and forth like an impromptu swing is quite a favorite pastime activity here.

-Odysseus and baby Telemachus who was trying to be a helicopter

-Hector and baby Astyanax when he was born.

-Probably Agamemnon and his three daughters, but I have no official designs. He tried to scold them and was failing. Tbh I feel like Agamemnon would be the type to cosplay buff Bubble from Powerpuff girls along with his daughters. I know he’s not that great but me delulu.

-Patroclus and Neoptolemus. Yes Patroclus contributed in raising him as well, the kid had 2 dads. Fight me.

[lunaxstrange]

Can we talk about love in orv?

[SPOILERS]

Okay so, I am aware that Kdj loves the "story" but I really wanna point some things out individually because it's 2am and ORV is on my mind.

Kdj had the easiest way out of the 1863rd turn. The most perfect turn (at the time) but he really went I'd let the world burn for Yjh? Yeah, everything is "part of his plan" but let's talk about the 73rd Demon King arc. My man would do anything to make sure Yjh finishes his story. Apart from this, it's the fact that while everyone else dislike any other version of Yjh (even he hates himself lol), Kdj loves every. single. one. I mean 3rd turn (1864th) Yjh? Yes. Hsy's 1863rd turn? Yes. Frickin' Secretive Plotter? Got off to a rough start but yes. You simply cannot make Kdj hate his beloved protagonist. I mean, this man risked his whole existence to make sure the 0th turn is actually the most perfect one. He didn't want Yjh to regress but became his sponsor anyway because it's what Yjh wanted. He would do anything to see Yjh happy. This type of love isn't romantic or platonic or anything else, it's the most inexplicable form of love. Love in its purest form. I'd like to take the time to compare it to Achilles and Patroclus because while we can fight over whether these two were gay or not, we cannot deny the sheer love they had for each other. No strings attached. Kdj is in awe of Yjh.

Yjh. The regressor. The protagonist. The person Kdj loves the most. Yjh had everything (0th turn) but he really gave it all up just to meet Kdj. Suffered the "Hell of eternity" just to see him. Bro didn't even love Lsw the way he loves Kdj. Tbf, 0th turn Yjh didn't know what the real struggle of passing the scenarios without help was but I'm sure he got the gist. Okay, sure, you can call it "curiosity" that led to Yjh keeping Kdj alive during the 3rd (1864th) turn. But my guy didn't choose Kdj to go to Peace Land because he had "someone he loved" like bro, YJH!? THE COLD REGRESSOR??? HE DID THAT FOR KIM DOKJA! Not to mention the fact that Yjh didn't even care that his whole life was a mere novel. He just despised the fact that Kdj chose the 1863rd turn over him. I'm gonna cry. Bro wanted Kdj so bad that he kept fighting the Secretive Plotter. Not only this, he gave up the 3rd (1864th) turn for Kdj too. Went from Supreme King to terrorist just to save Kdj. When everyone else - even Hsy - gave up. After all, what is a protagonist without a reader? The whole astronaut ordeal might've been to "find his purpose" but we can't ignore their connection. He gave up everything he could ever ask for twice (0th and 3rd/1864th turn) for Kdj. The attachment these two have with each other is insane.

I could go on about them for eternity but we have another person to talk about - Hsy. This woman spent 10 years exhausted, stuck in a world-line and body not her own for one person. Even if it's only Hsy with half her memories, she gave up her perfect world-line because she missed Kdj. Just like Kdj loves Yjh, Hsy also loves every version of Kdj. She wanted to meet him, no matter what the world-line. My girl had only a few hours where she was in control and decided to use off all those hours to write TWSA - a story she herself disliked. Hsy wants to see Kdj happy, every part of Hsy loves Kdj. There is nothing a writer could love more than an avid reader who loves their story. And let's talk about the fact that Yjh and Hsy absolutely hate each other. He is literally her creation (more or less) but their relationship is questionable. Why? Because a protagonist has no value without a reader. Kinda like Asuka Ren and Kyrgios Rodgraim. They have no special relationship despite being creator and creation. Since there is no reader, Asuka and Kyrgios are as distant as two people can be. Alternatively, what brings Hsy and Yjh together is Kdj.

I just can't get enough of the way ORV relationships are written. If I had to describe love as a writer, I'd cite ORV as an example.

[dionysism]

okay sorry i keep rambling about hades game theseus the brainrot is crazy BUT i just think it's so neat how his relationship with asterius & zagreus' impact on it is almost a perfect opposite to every other relationship in the game.

every other relationship (romantic or not), has been parted, for whatever reason, for some time. hades & persephone, orpheus & eurdyice, achilles & patroclus, nyx & chaos. all of these zagreus has never even seen interact, when the game starts. he just hears about the relationship they used to have from them when he encounters them individually. it's his job (and so yours, as the player) to reunite these duos and mend their relationship.

but theseus and asterius are the only duo he meets that are solid from the jump. and have been, for some time. and this is even more ironic given they were enemies in life. and so instead of being the force that pulls the relationship together, zagreus is what almost tears it apart. theseus starts self doubting and thinking asterius is going to fight against him with zag and almost wrecks his own relationship (however you view their relationship). and of course ultimately everything is fine and zagreus is not actually trying to wreck their relationship and they end up the stronger for it all so he does ultimately bring them closer together like he does with the other relationships in the game.

but it's just so neat how the only actively healthy and on speaking terms relationship zagreus encounters is the fucking bull of minos and the unbearably annoying king who killed him. who, might i add, comes off as the most unlovable person in the game. like of all the characters the last one you would think would have the model relationship 😭

[cutesilyo]

you know how there was a running theme with the NPC encounters in hades? that sisyphus, eurydice, and patroclus were all involved in stories about being unable to escape death?

and its something thats explicitly discussed within hades itself, at least for sisyphus and eurydice. sisyphus had attempted to cheat death three times, one of the most notable being when he bound thanatos in chains. orpheus had found a way to bring eurydice back to life, but couldn't follow through with completing hades' challenge. achilles had a prophecy hanging over him during the war; die in glory at troy or live long unremembered. he chose the war and patroclus followed. they didn't survive. they are all different manifestations of the axiom zagreus is fighting against: that in hades, there is no escape.

so i was thinking. in the hades 2 playtest, we get dialogue from nemesis about how mortals had it better during kronos' time. we get dialogue from arachne too, about being distrustful toward the gods because of her curse.

i wonder if the running theme for the npcs in hades 2 will be people maligned by the gods in some shape or form.

arachne is already confirmed as the npc encounter for erebus. proud athena cursed her into being a spider. will we see victims of a love gone wrong in the next biome, like daphne perhaps? will we see those offered up for sacrifice just to appease the gods, such as andromeda or iphigenia? maybe those who were killed, perhaps unjustly so, because they dared fly too close to the heavens, like bellerophon or icarus? demigods that were cursed because of their birth, ala heracles? its long been a joke that the greek myths are just full of people suffering because of the incomprehensible acts of the gods. if hades 2 goes down this route, theres a lot of material to draw inspiration from.

and its an especially interesting direction because we know that its kronos waiting for us down the line. kronos, who ruled the golden age. when it comes to those wronged by the gods, you cant get much worse than being waged war against, your mountain stronghold so damaged from the attack that it loses height, and then being cut up into tiny pieces.

kronos, the crooked one. i bet he'd have a hell of a time trying to convince melinoe that the gods cant be trusted. and melinoe would be surrounded by all these narratives that would just prove his point.

just like how zagreus was in hades, who was surrounded by all these narratives about how death had no escape. and yet, his story is about how life and love bloom despite it. i cant wait to see what melinoe is fighting against now.

[baejax-the-great]

Absolutely reeling.

So I knew that the origin of "Hector was a great man, moral, noble, better than all of the Greeks" began as Roman propaganda that somehow has made it to now, the year 2023, and is still taught to high school students.

What I did not know was why scholars shit on Achilles as vehemently as they did (and still do).

My copy of Fagles' translation of the Iliad has a preface by a different scholar who I'm not going to bother to name because he's an idiot (and idk probably dead at this point). I read the entire thing, absolutely baffled, because he would cite a part of the text (that I admittedly had not read yet! at all!), quote it, and then come to the most batshit interpretation based on that quote I had ever seen in my life. His general take was that Achilles was a sociopath who had no feelings for anyone other than himself and his own pride, and every action he took (until welcoming Priam into his hut) was done in service of that pride. To support this, he decided that Achilles did not see Patroclus as a person, but rather as an extension of himself, and thus someone injuring Patroclus was them injuring Achilles, and so he did not care about Patroclus, he only cared about his wounded pride.

Yeah.

That sounded wrong before reading the book, and while reading the book all i could think was, "Did we read the same fucking thing???" Put in context, those quotations still did not support his conclusions whatsoever.

But i cracked open Caroline Alexander's "The War That Killed Achilles" last night, and she solves this mystery of "Hector good, Achilles bad" for me right out the gate (which is good because so far I've only read the preface).

Western Europeans by and large learned about the Trojan war from Roman stories, which became fairly popular, and not the Iliad, which was not translated into French or English until centuries later. As mentioned, these were propaganda that cast the Trojans in a much better light than the Greeks because the Romans believed they were descended from Trojan refugees. This starts a trend that is still going on in scholarly circles as casting the Iliad as a war between "barbaric Greeks living in a shitty, lawless camp" vs "civilized, educated, weaving, real-wife-having Trojans," making the Iliad a tragedy in which Homer for some reason skewers his own people and their warlike culture as barbaric while propping up a dead, foreign city-state. This interpretation is still extant and was the postscript to another copy of the Iliad I have.

According to Alexander, scholars closer to Homer's time saw the entire war as a tragedy--both the destruction of Troy AND the destruction of the Greek army. While this is not covered in the Iliad, very few Greeks actually made it home after Troy. Some that did were then outcast (Teucer for example), some were murdered (bye, Agamemnon), some went on to create new kingdoms in other places (Diomedes), but by and large, there was no going home from that war. There was no great victory with all their loot. The entire thing was a disaster for both sides, spurred on by fickle gods.

Back to the more recent European interpretations of this story, one reason Hector ended up cast in such a "good" light, despite being a dumbass who wants to dishonor dead people just as badly as Achilles ever did, was in order to make Achilles look worse. Why was it important that Achilles becomes a villain in this story in which he is very much not a villain? Because Europeans were involved in so much war with each other and the rest of the world that a young, insubordinate man who criticizes his idiot of a commander, decides his life isn't worth throwing away for this war, and refuses to fight to sack a city was an affront to their values. Young men were to be obedient, follow their commanding officers, and colonize the world for queen and country. Achilles suggesting losing his life is not worth it to prop up Agamemnon's war is a dangerous precedent for all the good little soldiers needed to make their nations wealthy.

It's almost funny that these analyses propping up Troy as a beacon of civilization were made by people living in countries so bent on colonizing the world. They identified with the city being sacked and not the greedy sackers of said city, who they were much closer to. And Achilles, educated, morally rigid, emotional Achilles, is recast as a sociopathic asshole who doesn't care about anyone other than himself, unlike all of those other beacons of selflessness among the Greek leadership.

The tragedy of the Iliad is that Achilles is right, the war is pointless, Agamemnon did dishonor the shit out of him, and it doesn't matter because he's going to die in it anyway.

Frankly, given how badly his character has been interpreted for so long, I think the muses owe him an apology.

[deadbaguette]

Was rambling on DMs with a friend on twt about one of my top 3 favourite scenes in the Iliad: Priam kissing Achilles’ hand

It just makes me so insane because I think it’s the perfect encapsulation of what imo some of the biggest themes are in the Iliad: love, honour, and rage

But about the themes:

Love is a theme for obvious reasons, this whole war is a consequence of love in one way or another. But we see love echoed throughout the story of the iliad and the trojan war as a whole. We see it when Agamemnon chooses his brother (and his love for him) over his love for his daughter and wife, we see it when Paris ends up dooming Troy for love, we see it when Hector chooses to fight everyday because he loves his city, we see it when Achilles goes on that killing spree for Patroclus bcs he loved him eytc etc.

Honour is the whole premise of how the iliad/trojan war starts and even before that. The oath of Tyndarus, the whole reason they set out for war bcs Menelaus' honour has been damaged when Paris took Helen (and bcs of the Oaths so has everyone else'), and the Iliad literally starts with Agamemnon's honour being fringed upon when Chryseis is taken and then Achilles' honour being infringed upon when Agamemnon takes Briseis. For almost the entirety of the Iliad Achilles is sulking lmao bcs he doesn't wanna fight for the sake of his honour. But then Patroclus dies and it isn't about honour anymore.

Rage. Obvious reasons. Achilles is angry for the entirety of the Iliad; it's his rage that single handedly turns the tides of the war. The rage of Achilles is SO famous it can't help but be a major theme.

But how does this all connect to Priam kissing Achilles' hand? Well. It's the end of the Iliad symbolically. Achilles has been angry for so long, for this whole story. But when Priam does this simple LOVING gesture, an old father who went out of his way and endangered his life to get his son’s body back and give him an HONOURABLE funeral, all his rage just fizzles out. This scene encompasses these themes so well!!! The love Achilles had for Patroclus and his own father echoed in this scene and Priam’s love for Hector his greatest son, extinguishing the violent blaze of Achilles’ rage, and how for the ironically in the entirety of the Iliad THIS is one of the most honourable things that was done. Giving back Hector’s body, out of his own free will and letting Priam go give him an honourable funeral. THAT was true honour as a result of true love leaving in its wake the end of Achilles’ rage and the end of the Iliad.

[johaerys-writes]

This is a very silly silly question but i am going to ask you anyway.

What eye color does patroclus have in your fics. Is it brown. Is it grey.

In my head patroclus got beautiful big grey eyes with some brown surrounding his pupil. In my head he is actually a man with beautiful eyes.

Hey!! That's not a silly question at all, Patroclus’s eyes are important to me 😤

I personally always picture Patroclus with brown eyes. Big, gorgeous, warm brown eyes the colour of dark honey. Eyes you could drown into 😩 he's so pretty

[girlfromenglishclass]

Homeric hot take: I think The Iliad is an inherently more interesting story when Helen did not go to Troy of her own free will.

The primary reason why it that it is more thematically in-keeping with the rest of the story. It allows her to not just set the war in motion but also to set in motion the questions of the narrative: What is the worth of honor? What is the worth of a life?

If Helen goes to Troy because she's just so in love, and the war is fought so she can live happily ever after, that doesn't really have anything to do with the themes of the Iliad. However, if Paris steals her, and Troy fights because they are not willing to give her back, can't admit to a crime, they'll look like cowards, it's a matter of honor, then we have something. Agamemnon kills Iphigenia because if he doesn't, the war is over, they'll look like cowards, it's a matter of honor. The armies attack after Paris flees the duel because if they don't, they'll look like cowards, it's a matter of honor. Finally, when Briseis is taken, Achilles stops fighting, demanding her return. She's his war prize, what is he, a coward? This is a matter of honor. This way, it echoes Helen's kidnapping. The war is being fought because honor demands it, and this directly parallels one of the central questions of the text: What is the worth of a life?

When Achilles considers going home and abandoning the forces, he tells Agamemnon that he has no real quarrel with the Trojans; they did nothing to him, but he came here for the honor of the Atreides, which now he doesn't even care about. We're meant to ask ourselves - has this been worth it?

When he returns to fighting, it is not because of honor, but because he personally wants to kill Hector in revenge for Patroclus. However, this is where the framing of the narrative becomes important. The story doesn't end with Achilles killing Hector. It doesn't even end with the fall of Troy. It ends with Hector's body being returned and buried honorably because that's the most thematically resonant ending to these questions. Achilles could have easily refused Priam, not gone back on his choice, like everyone else in the narrative has. But instead, we're given a show of true honor (returning the corpse of your enemy) vs honor of obligation (going to war and killing your enemy) It represents an answer to the question asked by the narrative; honor does matter, but not more than life.

Having Helen kidnapped and having the Trojans too prideful to return her allows her story to matter not just to the plot but to the themes of the story. She's an echo of Briseis and a symbol of stolen honor, not a sad love story.

[gingermintpepper]

Why did Apollo favor the trojans in the Illiad?

So, dear Anon, I've been thinking about how to answer this question since I got it a couple days ago and I think I kind of want to make something clear before I get into it.

The Iliad by itself as a poem only covers some of the events that occur in the final year of a long protracted conflict that had been brewing for at least two decades and was an active war for ten. Within the space of the Iliad itself, the motivations and affairs of the major players are often referenced but there are many, many parts of the story that are not there because they belong to a different story cycle that has been since lost or was never recorded with words. In the space of the Iliad Apollo's motivations are questioned a lot - his pride is questioned by Poseidon who thinks Apollo should be just as angry at the Trojans as he considering Apollo was treated equally as poorly by Laomedon while they worked together. His honour is questioned by Hera who chastises him for taking the Trojans' side when he'd proclaimed that Achilles would live a long life and prosper at Thetis and Peleus' wedding. His own sister calls him a coward for refusing to fight when Zeus gives permission for the gods to go wild on the battlefield. For all that there's this image of Apollo in the Iliad as some staunch and unwavering protector of the Trojans, believe it or not, I largely think of Apollo as neutral in the war.

Which, I suppose, comes back to the question - why did Apollo favour the Trojans? The truthful answer is that I don't know. The Iliad and all its connected stories isn't something I've done enough research on to have an answer or a reference to an answer off the top of my head. The reasoning I'm aware of is that Apollo was a Patron God of Troy and really a god doesn't need any reason besides that to protect his people but it's not like Apollo abandoned the Greeks either. Calchas is the biggest example of that I can point to - descended directly from a priest of Apollo and one who attributed his mantic power to the god, Calchas was pivotal in ensuring the Greeks even got to Troy in the first place.

From a personal perspective however, I think Apollo was more dedicated to the house of Priam than he was the city of Troy itself. Apollo's affection for that house and all its members ran deep - from his admiration of Hecuba and Hector to his love and attempted courtship of Cassandra to his blessings given to Helenus, Deiphobos, Cassandra, Troilus and even his partnership with Paris - Apollo loved the house of Priam. When you think about the times Apollo lashes out against the Greeks, it's generally because they've done some nonsense to earn his ire. The plague was caused by Agamemnon disrespecting his priest, his aid in the slaughter of Patroclus was because he didn't respect him, his minor grudge against Diomedes too was because he tried to test Apollo's mettle and well, the less said about Achilles the better. Apart from his obvious favouring of Hector in the skirmishes, Apollo doesn't really oppose the Greeks. He has a ton of reasons to by the time the Iliad rolls around, including avenging the death of two of his sons, but he remains mostly satisfied with conducting his father's business and overseeing the war from a somewhat professional perspective. To me, it's always been less about Apollo caring about the fate of Troy as a city itself and more about him just really wanting to protect the people in the city that he's come to love and respect.

Of course, I encourage you to take my words with a big tablespoon of salt - like I said, I don't really know enough about the facts in particular to give a solid, confident answer but I can give you my interpretation of it. Maybe consult someone like @littlesparklight for a more comprehensive and grounded response 🤔

[katerinaaqu]

The Lament of a Life (Achilles and Antilochus short songfic)

If someone asks me how the lament of Achilles looks like my answer would be the amazing aria with music composed by Vivaldi:

The lyrics go on a repeat like this:

So today is a bit chilly and so I was inspired by this amazing song and made this! (Sorry itis a random inspiration I had this morning from this piece thus the title "song-fic")

***

His eyelids were heavy. He didn’t feel like getting up anymore. His bed seemed cold and inhospitable and yet he didn’t feel like moving out of it. His eyes opened slowly and looked to the side. It was empty. He looked outside his tent. Also empty. There was nothing left; he didn’t have the subject of his revenge anymore; he had given it back. Hector’s body was buried and celebrated. His revenge had come to an end. And yet, he felt empty. Nothing mattered. Achilles, the Best and Noblest of all the Greeks was no longer feeling anything mattered. What would it matter now that the subject of his vengeance was gone, if the subject of all the affections he could offer to a human being was also gone? His soul was in turmoil throughout the process. He thought on Briseis, the woman that he felt so strongly for; merely a slave and yet so important for him, had started this domino of reactions which led him to the strike; his refusal to fight. Then his refusal led to this terrible result; the death of his other half. The flame that flickered inside him was gone, the moment Patroclus’s eyes turned glassy from death and he wasn’t even there. During Patroclus’s last moments…he wasn’t there! He remembered his wife; a woman he barely knew and yet she gave him a son, a son he adored despite his young years, a son that he never knew and a son that never knew him back. He could be lamenting for them; they wouldn’t see him again possibly. Given the prophecy, he was to die in war. Possibly neither his wife nor his son, were included in the prophecy. He should be crying for them. He should be crying for the people that were around him and yet…he was feeling weak; unwilling to even get out of his bed and eat because of… He slowly forced himself to sit up and he looked at the magnificent urn with two handles that was always within eye gaze from him. The intricate patterns were cold; just like his bed that could not give him warmth.

“Come back…” he whispered in a voice chocked deep in his throat

Tears oozed out of his sea-blue eyes; his throat burning anew.

“I did what you asked…I offered you a burial…come back…! Please…come back to me!”

His hand was shaking as it was reaching for the cold, golden urn; his other fixing the covers upon his naked chest, in a vain attempt to generate some warmth within.

“Please…” he whispered again, “Come back…!”

“Achilles…”

The young and soft voice didn’t surprise him neither made him react. Antilochus was standing right behind him, undoubtedly had entered his tent a little while prior, enough to hear his foolish and childish lament.

“He won’t come back…” the young man said as a matter of fact, “You offered him a burial. He is in the land of Hades now… He will not come back”

More tears arose from Achilles��s eyes as he clasped desperately the covers against his chest; his face buried to the pocket created by them as if his own eyes wanted to confirm what hurt so much was indeed the organ that was pumping his blood, giving him life inside. Yes, he knew. His cut hair was also a proof of that but hearing it again was somehow destroying that foolish illusion that if he begged hard enough, goddess Persephone would have mercy and send back Patroclus to him; his soul to talk to or at least restore his body to hold one more time…

“Soul of my soul…” he mumbled in lament, “My dear as my own heart…”

“Shh…” Antilochus whispered in tears, hugging his shoulders affectionately, “I know… I know… Please don’t do this to yourself… I know it hurts but…he’s gone… No matter what you do…how much you melt…he won’t come back…”

“Heart of my heart…” Achilles lamented again, “I want him back…! I want him to come back…”

“I know…” Antilochus said again, caressing his golden locks with his hands

Achilles seemed almost aged at that point in his sorrow. Antilochus almost felt tempted to look for white hairs in his golden head.

“And I am sorry that I cannot offer you any consolation… Forgive me. I am not him; I cannot take your sorrow away…”

Antilochus softly raised Achilles’s head, cupping his cheeks and making him look deep in the eyes. He moped the tears from his cheekbones with his thumbs.

“I know I am young and foolish…but, please, take one bit of advice from me; stop looking at it! Stop looking at that urn! It will only hurt you more… You need to come back to us too…we need you…”

He looked away.

“I need you…” he whispered shyly, “You are my hero, my idol… I need you back, strong and healthy…maybe some of your previous happiness back… Please…please my dear…we all need you. Above all I do…”

Achilles looked at him and for one moment he looked like a hurt animal facing the peasant that had released him from the hunter’s trap. However then he laughed; it was a dry, humorless, lamenting laugh.

“Don’t be foolish!” he said self-pettily, “No one shall need me! I shall die! I know I will!”

“Don’t talk like that!”

“You can’t deny it, Antilochus! I know it to be true! It was predicted for me! I will die! I will die in this war! My mother told me someday I would die in this war if I decided to fight! I shall never go home! I shall never see my wife and son! I will die now! I know I will and I don’t care! Nothing matters anymore!”

“Don’t say that!” Antilochus retorted again

“I know the truth” Achilles insisted, “I decided it for myself. I know what my fate is! That urn Im staring is waiting for me! I am to die!”

Antilochus looked away. He seemed hesitant; his arm rubbing his upper arm as if he was about to make that confession no one has heard before.

“I’ll tell you a secret…” he whispered, “So am I…”

Achilles seemed surprised and shocked for the first time in that conversation. Suddenly the lament gone; now there was fear in his eyes. Fear for yet another loss.

“My father was hiding it…but I overheard him. An oracle once told him to beware of an Ethiopian. At first I didn’t know…but my father tried to hide it from me. I know now that I am to die somehow by someone from a foreign land… Maybe today maybe tomorrow maybe here maybe at home… I know though that I will die like this…and…”

He swallowed and looked back at Achilles. The elder man gasped seeing tears to Antilochus’s eyes.

“…And I am scared! I am scared, Achilles! I don’t want to tell my father that for he would be ashamed of me and my cowardice but…I am scared! How can you take it, Achilles? How can you live knowing that you will die…?”

“Antilochus…”

Antilochus quickly mopped his own tears, sniffing his nose, trying to find his composure.

“I’m sorry…” he mumbled, “I don’t know what came into me! I just…”

He sighed.

“We need you back” he finally repeated, “You are our strength and our courage. When you are out there we are afraid of nothing!”

“Antilochus!”

And Achilles did something the younger prince never expected; he embraced him.

“Antilochus, dear to my heart…don’t say such things please. Don’t you say that you will die! I will not let you! I…I will protect you!”

“You…you will…?”

“I will!”

Achilles kissed the top of his head and held him close. Maybe for the first time in weeks he didn’t think of death and burials. Right now he was lamenting a life; this young man who was there apparently sharing his pain and fate. No, he wouldn’t see yet another young person close to him die before him in battle!

“I will protect you! I will not let anything happen to you I promise!”

The two men remained there for quite some time, neither wanted to count the time. It was a shared lament for their short lives; a lament that was different than the one for the dead souls. Who would die first? If both of them were destined to die in the war against Troy, who would die first and who would watch the other die? Neither wanted to be the last. Neither wanted to see the other die. What weird and sad fate! Achilles was almost rocking the youth in his arms so worried of his upcoming death while he was almost welcoming his at that point; oftentimes kissing tenderly his temple. Antilochus was trying to evoke some of his warmth to Achilles for he was afraid for his upcoming death; his welcoming of it. He didn’t want to hear fate yet alone his willingness to accept it. It was a weird way to connect that autumn morning. And yet he felt that at least Achilles might have found a reason to postpone his will to die. Antilochus broke the embrace first, standing up.

“Look at us!” he chuckled softly, “Looking like children playing at the gymnasium like this! We have a war to fight! I am sorry…I took your personal time, my lord Achilles…”

“Wait!” Achilles’s voice made him stop, “Stay…please…”

It was a request; a pleading.

“Please stay with me longer…” he almost seemed worried, afraid

“Are you afraid of the dark and shadows?”

“Yes…” Achilles admitted, “More like those inside my heart… Please stay a bit longer…”

Antilochus smiled softly.

“Of course, my lord…” he whispered, “I would be delighted”

*

Outside the tents, the Greeks were already preparing for the events of the day. The kings were to negotiate their next step again given how the mourning period for Hector was over, how the killings would start anew. It was a sad prospect and they knew their own forces wouldn’t last long. The spies were also informing them on movement on Troy’s part to call upon more allies to arrive to the battlefield. Odysseus was thinking all this as he pranced about the camp. He blew some warm air to his freezing fingers. Autumn was in for good. Soon winter would arrive again.

“Yet another year to the foot of Troy…” he thought miserably, “Yet another year away from our homes…for the sakes of this war…”

He was also worried on Achilles. That last lament period shocked everyone. Achilles had just collapsed and then turned into blind rage. People were afraid on his sanity; that his mind would break. An out of control Achilles was much more dangerous than they would have thought. And their army needed their support. Before the Trojans had Hector to even the odds. Now their strongest warrior was gone. It would be their chance to have higher spirits and yet they didn’t. Achilles was a mess. Once more they seemed to square one… He could only hope he would snap out of his grief enough to fight. His gloomy thoughts were interrupted when he saw old Nestor. Nestor was suffering more than the rest of them from the cold; he had a bear skin over his shoulders to keep his old bones warmer and yet he refused to stand back. Odysseus smiled.

“Good morning, my friend” he said

“Good morning” Nestor replied, “It turned chilly!”

“Yeah…” Odysseus agreed, “Sometimes I envy the young!”

“Speaking of which…my son left the tent earlier this morning. He said he wanted to check on Achilles and I didn’t hear from him since. Have you seen him?”

“No” Odysseus replied thoughtfully, “But I was heading there myself to check on things. Maybe he is still there”

As if on a queue they heard light laughter coming from the direction where the Myrdmidons had camped.  The distinct, clear laughter from Achilles made a small smile creep to Odysseus’s lips.

“It’s the first time I hear him laugh in weeks…” he sounded almost hopeful, “Your son is a miracle-worker!”

Nestor smiled back.

“He is…” he whispered thoughtfully, “He is…”

Odysseus’s smile dropped when he saw a shadow in Nestor’s eyes. He didn’t need to ask to know there was something ominous hanging over the two youths.

Yet another time he looked at the cloudy, gray sky and wondered to Athena how all that was even justified…if the youth were to perish and all the others would live…

***

So yeah...Achilles being depressed and Antilochus giving some consolation! TT_TT Achilles hoped to see Patroclus's ghost again (which is what inspired me from that amazing Aria as well!)

Also I wondered if Antilochus knew the warning Nestor got to "beware of an Ethiopian" if he would know or sense the warning was for himself instead of his father...what if he feared it all along...maybe that would be the connection with Achilles!

Set after the mourning period of Hector! As you can see I kept it a bit "homeric" in the essence that I love tenderness in his writing and then leave it unravel!

a small thanking thing in a way too for @smokey07 for honoring me with a mention! Anoher thankng for @h0bg0blin-meat for his sketch to one of my silly headcanons about Achilles and Patroclus! Still makes me giggle my friend!

Also I want you guys check out my brilliant friend's art and mentions on our characters trust me you won't regret it! Many parallels of the epic cycle were added unconsciously to our story! Hahahaha! @artsofmetamoor

My analysis on Achilles and Patroclus can be found here

Antilochus needed some love too there! Hehehe others write scary stories for October but I was like "nope I shall mention ghosts in angst!"

[thepagansun]

Hi! I know your favorite Iliad character is Agamemnon (I love him too) and I would like to ask, what’s your opinion about Menelaus and his personality? And their relationship with each other?

Thank you for your answer in advance! :D

Hi! Thanks so much for your question! I love Trojan War questions! Especially regarding Agamemnon or his family! 😁

I do like Menelaus, especially in the Iliad. He shares similarities with Patroclus in that they're both kinder than Agamemnon and Achilles respectively and are underestimated as a result.

Combat: Menelaus probably ranks as the 10th strongest warrior since he wasn't included among the top 9 who volunteered to fight Hector. But he was still quite courageous. He dueled and curbstoped Paris. He was the one who asked Big Aias (Ajax) to help a wounded Odysseus and with Athena's help, he was able to protect Patroclus' body and briefly stand against Hector before getting Big Aias again. So he's definitely impressive.

Relationship with Agamemnon: I love their relationship in the Iliad! Their scenes together are brief but sooo touching! Agamemnon really did seem to go to war for Menelaus' sake and not as most modern (far more inaccurate) portrayals that make it seem like he just wanted Troy's wealth (as if Mycenae didn't have more than enough gold). In Book 4, Agamemnon freaks out when he thinks Menelaus got wounded. In Book 6, Agamemnon is so angered by the injustice Menelaus suffered that he kills a Trojan prisoner Menelaus himself was willing to spare. And in Book 10, they share such an emotional, touching scene where Agamemnon defends Menelaus from Nestor's criticism and subtly warns Diomedes against choosing Menelaus for the night raid. He even lends Menelaus his mare so Menelaus could participate in the chariot racing for Patroclus funeral games! Their love for each other was so genuine. And for his part, despite the heartbreaking quarrel Menelaus and Agamemnon had in the Odyssey, Menelaus is inconsolable when he finds out Agamemnon's fate and he erects a barrow for him in his memory.

Relationship with Helen: I do think Menelaus genuinely loved Helen and she loved him. As early as Book 3, Helen makes it clear she regrets leaving with Paris and we find out it was heavily influenced by Aphrodite. And in the Epic Cycle, Menelaus spares Helen's life. And the Odyssey, they seem to live contently (although still grieving their loved ones) and are predicted to live together forever in the Elysian Fields.

Other Notes: But I think sadly, Menelaus' story gets lost in the bigger story of more powerful characters like Agamemnon, Achilles, Big Aias, Diomedes, Hector, Odysseus and even Helen. The quarrel he has with Agamemnon in the Odyssey seems almost necessary for Menelaus to finally have gotten his own story/epic that sadly is lost to us. We only have a glimpse of his wanderings in Egypt through the Odyssey and the play Helen by Euripedes. But the Athenian plays should be taken with a grain of salt for his portrayal because the Athenians were biased against Spartans due to the Peloponnesian War.😔

In short, I think Menelaus was a tragic epic hero whose story sadly gets overshadowed by others. But I love that the small bits that survive prove that he was almost as fascinating as Agamemnon. I hope this helps! 😊

[ifyoucandaniel]

i know we all love our jason “reads classical literature and makes obscure literature references” todd, and usually damian is the other reader in the family and they either bond over their love for classical literature or try to kill each other. however i would like to take this a step further and say that EVERYone in the batfam are big readers. i come from a big family and all of us read in some way or another so here are my headcanons for the bats:

jason, as we know and love, is a massive classic literature buff. pride and prejudice, the brontë sisters, the iliad (he swears achilles and Patroclus are the greatest love story of all time), etc. he IS pretentious and everyone groans when classic literature is brought up in any debatable capacity. however his all time favorite book is the princess bride and he would die for buttercup. when the whole family starts watching jujutsu kaisen, jason reads the manga just so he can spoil things for damian that never actually happen. the day a new episode comes out jason tells damian panda was actually a spy and kills megumi. damian tries to kill him with his cereal spoon

while damian was with the league talia made sure he was sufficiently educated in classic literature in all their original languages, and he doesn’t mind a good classic. however i think he actually reads a lot of manga and children's classics. he read where the red fern grows and old yeller and cried, but he won’t ever admit it. he loves shonen and shojo manga, he really likes naruto and attack on titan (i can’t really decide what i think he’d like actually)

Dick is a smut slut girly!! he is in a bookclub with babs and steph where they read the sluttiest books to ever make it through publishing. He read ACOTAR and was constantly facetiming babs to rant. they're currently reading haunting adaline. Bruce once asked what the big deal was when the girls were talking to dick about fouth wing in the kitchen and they all looked at him with such offended expressions he never asked again

tim is also a pretentious fucker, but he reads dark academia. he will ride or die for Donna Tarte, his copy of the secret history is always on the desk by the batcomputer and he takes if we were villians on patrol with him. jason fucking hates his books and they're always fighting on who's taste in books is better. jason actually really loved a little life a cried seven times while reading it, but he would rather die than concede

steph is an AO3 girly!! she's part of the slut bookclub with dick and babs, but at heart she's an ao3 girly. she's also written her fair share of bruce wayne x batman fanfics. she once read a superbat fanfiction out loud to the boys and dick was absolutely enthralled, duke was morbidly facinated, damian had never been more disgusted in his life, and jason laughed so hard he almost threw up

duke reads a lot of comics (spiderman is his favorite because i say so and the MCU is their comic world), and he likes X-men and wolverine. he also really likes high fantasy and has read every book brandon sanderson has ever written

Cass like romance novels and ya books. damian acknowledges her taste in books after she defends his stance on harry potter and percy jackson being classics when jason tries to argue that they don't belong in the same category as his books. she read the cruel prince and convinced bruce to get her a snake she named percy. she reads books damian recommends and he would never actually say it out loud, but he secretly loves sharing his books with her and feels a lot closer to her because of her willingness to read what he recommends

bruce isn't typically a reader (he's too busy serving justice and kicking ass) but he will read books that his kids ask him to. he read the entire wheel of time series with duke and would go on patrols with him after just to talk about it. he read the golden compass to dick when he first took him in, and he read all of jane austen's books after jason told him he must be illiterate if he'd never picked up a classic

now what about alfred...

i dont have time to do everyone else and this is super rushed, but I just couldn't stop thinking about dick and babs having a little book club and reading the sluttiest books ever