#or... not 9 years because Wally got his powers only a few years after Barry started being the Flash so probs more like 5

[givemewallywestorgivemedeath]

And Jay was a huge fan of Max Mercury (well, one of his many many aliases at least) before he got his powers.

John Fox was also pretty obsessed with the history of the Flashes before he got his powers.

I think an argument could be made that the timeless nature of their powers/the speedforce influences their behavior before they're technically even connected.

Like you said, the lightning calls to them. Cause the lightning isn't linear. The lightning doesn't act within the boundaries of time and space. The lightning knows who its avatars are and it reaches out to them, regardless of where it's avatars are in time.

I think being a little bit obsessed with speedsters is actually a sign that someone might be fated to be a speedster, in-universe.

We have Barry, whose first appearance in a comic showed him reading a Flash comic and fanboying over Jay Garrick.

We have Wally West, who was the presdent of his hometown's Flash fanclub.

We have Eobard Thawne who was the curator of the Flash museum and the chief expert on Barry Allen.

Avery and Ace both express that they're big Flash fans. Meena was heavily involved in researching the Speed Force and I've rarely met a scientist who wasn't rigorously invested in their focus. As for August, it's hard to say. Arguably his friendship with Barry can be pointed at.

I think the lightning is calling these people before it ever reaches out to touch them.

[whateverthought]

A full(ish) outline of my ‘Evil WestAllen’ AU or Earth 6. It's kinda long. 

------

  On Earth 6, 11-year-old Bartholomew Henry Allen awakens to a ruckus downstairs only to go and see his mother encompassed in a whirlwind of electricity and color. He calls out as his parents scream for him to leave. And there he sees, the Yellow Man thrust his hand into his mother’s chest before finding himself down the block from home.

As he makes it back he hears police sirens and screeching tires. He watches his father, stunned and resigned, get put in the back of a police car. He goes inside and sees Mr. West, a family friend, standing over something covered in a blanket.

Something-  His mom.

He knows. He knows she’s under the blanket.

  And Mr. West turns, sees him, and rushes to move him out of the house. Away from the crime scene. Away from his mother. And wasn’t that what his mother told him last? To leave?

 Months later he is living with the Wests, with Joe and Iris, but his father is in jail. His father who did nothing. Who was innocent. But he pleaded guilty. Barry saw him plead guilty. Saw him in a prison jumpsuit, in that courtroom. Saw him look anywhere but at Barry.

 And he had tried to help. Barry told them everything. The lightning, the wind, his mother and the Man in Yellow. But no one believed him. No one truely let him finish. They only doubted him. Telling him what he did and did not know.

  He couldn’t have seen the crime, all the police officers saw him run from down the street. He wasn’t in the house, he must have ran away when he heard his father attack his mother. There was no way a Man in Yellow stabbed his mother with his hand. It was ridiculous! Except it wasn’t.

 And he tried to see his father. Ask him why he lied. Why he wanted to be in jail. Why he would rather be in prison than with his son. But each time he would be stopped. Each time Joe West would force him back. He’d sit him down and tell him he couldn’t see his father. Because he was dangerous. Because he was a criminal. Because he didn’t deserve it.

 And Joe, much like every officer and detective, didn’t believe him. He believed his father was a monster and kept Barry from visiting.

  Each time he did get closer. Until, finally, he got to his father. Finally, his father laid eyes on Barry. In the months since the crime Barry was looking at his father in the eyes. Yet, his father sat down, picked up the phone and told him to leave.

  He shouldn’t be here, he shouldn’t have come, he should just forget about him, his father. And then he got up, and left. He left Barry there, sitting in the plastic chair on the other side of a plastic window in a cold concrete room inside a prison.

-

 At 6 years old Iris Ann West loses her mother. Her mother had been sick for weeks, on and off for years. And one day she wakes up to see her mother gone. Maybe she went out, her father doesn’t seem too bothered. But later that week her father sits her down, and  tells her her mother died. And she cries.

 But life keeps going and nothing happens. They move some her mother’s things but there’s no funeral. Dead people have a funeral, right? And she asks her teachers, and they say, sometimes people have Wakes or Memoerials.

Her father does neither.

  So, at 6, her mother is just gone. And she loves her father. He was a cop, a detective, a hero who fought bad guys. So he couldn’t be wrong.

  And then her bestfriend loses everything. And now he lives with them. And then she wonders, a man who she knew, a man who was nothing but good to her was now a murderer. Not just a murderer, but someone who killed his wife. His love. Something, Iris thought, was nothing but evil. And her father agreed. He told her he did it. He put him in jail himself!

  But, Barry didn’t. Barry told her what he saw, what really happened and, truly? Really truly? Iris believed Barry.

  At 15, she hears her father talking to Barry’s therapist. He was worried, too many fights, too many bloody noses, and broken wrists. She knows she shouldn’t listen. But its Barry. Barry tells her everything, more than the therapist espesially. So she listens, because what if her father tries to send Barry away again? Another “Summer Camp” full of doctors and bodyguards. Another few months of being alone.

 She asks, what about a mother figure? Well, he has Iris, but what about a good female role model? Iris almosts gets caught when she snorts at that. Barry had a mother, and he’d never take some replacement. But thats not important. What is, is that her father admits its been hard since her mother left.

Left.

 And Iris knew her father, he said it like that for a reason. So one night, when her dad was asleep, she searches the Internet. And thats when she saw it. Her mother. Her mother after 9 years.

Francine West. 39. Mother. Of a Son.

Alive.

 Iris yells, and raves and sobs and screams but in the end, he lied. Her father lied to her. A good man who believed in justice and honor lied to her about her mother. But worse, he looks her in the eye, and tells her to not reach out. She left, and she didn’t deserve Iris’ love.

He was right. She didn’t. Neither did he.

-

  At 16, Iris decides to reach out to her brother, not because she cares, but because her mother doesn’t deserve to have a family after leaving Iris’. Later they move back to Central, and Wally slowly joins Iris and Barry’s little bond.

  During Prom, Iris goes with a girl covered in piercings and Barry takes an older boy with a record. Francine looks uncomfortable as all hell, and Joe looks one second from getting into a fist fight. Neither of them get home before 1 in the morning, and they do it in a police car.

  As collage approaches Barry decides to go to Med School, he’ll take after his father if it kills him. Iris decides to go for law. They leave together, far from Central and there they meet other students from the area. One is Political Science major Lisa Snart, Iris’ PA for her floor. Soon, as things tend to be, they grow close. Lisa tells them about her brother, Leonard, who died young, protecting Lisa from their crooked cop of a father. Of what she saw, of dirty cops and criminals working together. The law wasn’t on their side. Not Barry’s, not Lisa’s and definately not Leonard’s.

-

  They all go back to Central, Barry becoming a surgeon and Iris a lawyer. On that day, December 11, the S.T.A.R. Labs particle accelerator explodes, sending chaos through the city. At that time Iris is driving with her father, in a rare moment of happiness. Then the storm starts, and a wave of chaos begins. A car in front of them swerves and in an instance, multiple cars are crashing and flying. Iris and Joe included. As their car stops, Iris realizes she’s stuck. Pinned by the car and varying metal parts inbedded into her body she sees her father take his last breathe. She stays there for hours, barely concious, and stews. Her father, who moments ago was actually having a nice time with her, is dead. Her father who she loved and hated in equal measure. Who, maybe, just maybe was finally reconnecting with her. Who she might have finally forgiven.

 Barry is in the hospital when it happens. Moving between emergancies, he stops for a breathe. And the power goes off. The silence lasts a moment before everyone is scrambling to check on patients. Everyone, but Barry. Because he knows something bad has happened.

  Later Iris is brought in for surgury and, days later, has yet to wake up. As Barry watches he feels a knot of bitterness and resentment tighten in his chest. They, the hospital staff, tell him to leave. He can’t help. And he watches Wally and Francine cry over his Iris. Francine doesn’t deserve to cry. If nothing else she should be the one in the bed. Iris is worth 100 of Francine.

  Iris is out for 7 months. In that time Barry turns back to their, Iris and his, old criminal conntacts. They are small, and few but are in no way insignificant. He builds it, and reaches out. He sees the growing number of freaks and weirdos who can do things they shouldn’t. With that, he makes enemies and allies alike.

   One of those is Talia Al Ghul, the run away daughter of the Demon’s Head. He watches her take down mobs of people. He has her come back with information she shouldn’t have. He sees her take down small, powerful criminal organisations. So he makes a deal, he will protect her and she will teach him. She gets shelter, protection, money, connections and he gets to learn how to snap a man’s head between his thighs. She gets a shadow to hide in and he gets a well of toxicology knowledge.

   When Iris wakes up, its to a growing criminal organization. Its during a meeting for this that she first shows her power. A bullet flies toward her Barry and as she jumps infront of it her skin turns silver. Flawless and smooth Iris West becomes The Woman of Steel. As the group lies dead at her and Barry’s feet they realize. The game had changed.

  Over a year later, the Central City Underworld finally descends into chaos. Whispers of a sadistic doctor, his right hand robot and pet assasin lerking in the shadows spread. It’s like a plague, causing fear and paronoia everywhere you look. Crime Lords getting trigger happy and cops twitching at every noise.

  Barry Allen is the leading surgeon in Central and Iris West is a prominant member in many court proceedings. Lisa Snart is campaning for Mayor and Talia Al Ghul is as good as dead to the rest of the world. And its at this time that the Man in Yellow starts showing up.

   Slowly it becomes obvious this is the same man. He always happens to arrive in Barry’s radious. Taunting him. And they bite. Every villian and criminal in their way gets struck down. Every lead and every possibility is followed. As this happens Barry is asked by Harrison Wells to join his business. Deciding the labs can be used to find the Man in Yellow, he agrees.

  Soon Central City gets a hero. Hot Pursuit, a man who can run at lightning speed, who drives a motorcyle going just as fast. The man seems to have a grudge with Central City’s biggest criminal trio, the Good Doctor, Titanium and Shadow Hunter. Never succeding, he still breathes down their neck.

  Despite their bitter resentment, the CCPD is too easy to manipulate. Captain Edward Thawne is a rough man with an agenda against the rising metahuman problem. He hates Hot Pursuit just as much as he does any criminal. This leads to the idenity of the Man in Yellow.

   Its Iris who finds out. From his fights with Hot Pursuit and Barry’s memories, Iris finds the pattern. And as she searches S.T.A.R. labs she finds him. Harrison Wells, standing in all his yellow glory, working on a machine Iris knows doesn’t belong. He catches her, and while he can’t kill her, her powers beat his, he does imprison her. He laments he would rather just kill her, everything has already gone wrong.

   When Talia finds Iris they learn the truth. Eobard Thawne killed Nora Allen, got stuck in time, and killed Harrison Wells. He blew up the accelerator early, on purpose but everything was wrong. Barry was wrong. Wrong job, wrong powers, wrong life. And now, now Eobard could never leave, and Barry couldn’t fight back. He would just run.  Leave.

   Barry wouldn’t run. He was tired of running. Wouldn’t leave. He poisoned the man, and Iris mutilated his arm and he still got away. They would never get a chance like that again.  

   So Iris decided to get rid of him. She hunted down Thawne’s ancestor, Captain Edward Thawne. A good man, but if it would kill Eobard then Titanium would make it quick.

Its during this that Titantium found out Hot Pursuit’s idenity.

Wally.

   “Harrison Wells” left them everything. S.T.A.R. labs, millions of dolars and a confession. Henry Allen was let out of Iron Heights. And Hot Pursuit now has partners. Bomba, a woman who could blow up anything she touched. Solarflare, a woman made of fire who could change anything into something completely different. And two very condensading hawk people.

   As Lisa becomes Mayor of Central City, politicians from around come and go. One such person is Jennifer ‘Stormy’ Knight, stone faced daughter of Senator Henry Knight and former Wild Child. After an accident, and an attack, Stormy took on the moniker ‘Phantom Lady’ and fights crime in the battle against dirty politicians. An ally of Titanium and future member of Iris’ ‘Furies’.

  Barry proposes to Iris in a beautiful club they recently claimed, and murdered the former gang of, with a private show, just them, and they made love on the stage.

They have a small beautiful wedding and honeymoon in France. Of course, the wedding was inturrupted but nothing Titanium and her Good Doctor couldn’t end.

-----

Barry becomes a bendy assassin who uses needles, poison, scalpel, and knowledge of the body to fight. He doesn’t like to back down and is petty when he feels like he’s been insulted.

Iris is a metal tank. She’s sharp, observational, a great detective and an amazing at deception. Silver tongue, y’know? She’s ruthless and protective. She doesn’t trust people easily and usually, she only believes Barry. Also, the only person who can tell Barry what to do, not only that he also always listens (100%).

Decided to add Talia cause no one ever lets her make her own decisions not based on her father or lover. Also added Lisa cause I mean?? Lisa. Also, I’ve recently fallen in love with Phantom Lady sooooo.... bias

Heroes include Wally West as Hot Pursuit, Bette Sans Souci as Bomba, Lily Stien and Valentina Vostok as Solarflare and Carter Hall and Kendra Saunders as Hawkman and Hawkwoman.

This is in reference to lostinthespeedforce ‘s post about Evil WestAllen. So. Feel like I could have done better but... 

@lostinthespeedforce

[soyphlegm]

parent trap!coldflash

The premise is Dawn Henrietta Allen, (14) lives with her father, Bartholomew Henry Allen (38) in Central City. She’s starting high school next fall but before that Uncle Cisco suggested to her dad to send her off to a summer science program instead of letting her relax. 

Eleanor Josefine Snart or Scofield, depending on the state, "EJ" (14) lives with their father, Leonard Snart, sometimes Scofield (48-52). They move around every few years. Their father and aunt told them, it’s for the job, although EJ knows that Rogue Retrieval takes up contracts. They both and Uncle Mick could easily travel for the job instead of relocating every so often. EJ is ready to start high school, another new school, but before that Lisa signed her up for a summer science program upstate New York. This is going to be their first time at “sleep-away” camp, but they’ve camped and travel plenty of times with the Rogues. 

EJ is discovering that they prefer neutral and masculine pronouns. After a discussion with their aunt Lisa, they ask their dad to call them maybe best bud or favorite person instead of little girl. Len is accommodating. (After all, it’s not worst than the reveal and conversation that Shawna was her surrogate/birth mother. It was less about keeping secrets, more about is Mark going to be okay/Hey Lenny don’t be killing Shawna’s boyfriend

EJ and Shawna have a good relationship, more like a big sister than a mother. Shawna has a big part in EJ’s chidhood/life. She taught them how to take care of their hair, taught the Snarts and Mick how to do their hair as a kid. 

(Len has the same hair type as EJ but he kept it short most of his life. Not much help.) 

Dawn constantly tries to pair her dad off with almost everyone.

EJ respects that her dad wants to stay single but also wonders why hasn't he and Mick married (which they did, foreshadow one of the reasons why Barry and Len broke up because Len forgot that him and Mick were legally married years ago)

They both want their dad to be happy too, EJ notice his attraction to Hartley/Sara/the Rays, so EJ doesn't care if they get a new mother or father or parent. 

Since Len dated Gideon for a while, who was agender, preference with she/her pronouns. (She ended up getting back together with her exes (Rip Hunter, Miranda Coburn, Jonah Hex) Rip and Miranda are married, but Jonah and Gideon has been in the relationship for quite sometime. They all raise Jonas. It’s somewhat awkward since she knew Barry Allen back in middle school camp. 

Dawn and EJ's surrogate mother is Shawna. Only EJ knows because they talked about it and Shawna works with her father and company, Rogue Retrieval

Shawna has been seeing Mark Mardon and hopes Len is fine with that. 

It is, but different story for Mark because he didn't know Shawna had kid(s).

Luckily it blows over quickly and everything is explained. 

(Len nearly ices Mark for outing that Shawna had more than one kid in front of EJ, EJ doesn't know they have a twin. They figured that Shawna’s occupation as a surrogate mother?) 

Dawn thought Iris was her mother for the longest time, because sometimes she goes to Joe's place and she gets to call him Pawpaw. 

Dawn’s mad at her family for a while. (She gets bullied for having a white father/Her “parents” didn’t marry.)

She gets an obsession with Barry with as many available women they know. 

"What about Caitlin or even Lisa when she shows up" 

Everyone's disgusted, but Cisco s brave and "Ummm a little awkward," "How so?" "We dated and umm," Cisco doesn't want to say she's your aunt too. 

"You're dating Cynthia aren't you, or you still with Kendra?"

Dawn is still upset at Iris. When EJ and Dawn switch, she warns them that Iris is no good. 

But EJ and Iris bond a bit more (because Barry can't stand to see them fighting/Iris not in his kid's life). 

The new school year starts in Star City for Dawn, and EJ goes to the high school in Central City. 

Dawn tries not to break character since she sees Uncle Ollie, Felicity and everyone. Sara Diggle (16) in at the new school. Sara figures out that she’s Dawn and who is EJ Scofield? The Arrow Team finds out that Snart is in town, they don’t know it’s Dawn quite yet. 

EJ gets some bullying problems which they defuse but gets sent to principal office. 

(Dawn thinks that she's popular, she's very positive and bright, so she ignores all the negativity and mean stuff people say to her).

Rogue Retrieval

Iris, Joe, Cisco and Caitlin finds out that EJ is living with them. (They ask if it was okay to use neutral pronouns, and of course everyone is accepting.) 

Barry is last to find out. He notices the change, and EJ tells him that I'm not a girl...is that ok, Barry embraces EJ and of course, you're my kid and I love you more than anything in the world. . . then BOOOM Ellie? Are you Eleanor, how? ; ;

They break their voice, "EJ actually. But I have grams and pawpaw's name sakes, so I like my names. 

On Dawn's side, Lisa, Mick and Shawna finds out first. (But revealed that Len knew from the first meal they had) The gold digger???? that tries to woo Len? Throw away OC ? Becky Cooper lmao? 

(Len's list of exes, Mick, Hartley, Barry?, Ray Palmer and Terrill, Sara Lance, Gideon) Valentina Vostok? as the gold digger?

Len and the Rouges know she's bad news but allows her to be close. (Len feels terrible for allow her as close as she is to his kid but this needs to look good other wise Vandal Savage walks away with his other buddies. (Len tries to capture Eobard Thawne) 

Dawn holds to her emotions a lot, like Barry. 

EJ is cool headed, but doesn't get as angry as she could. 

Len notices that when "EJ" is back from camp, more energized and perky???which is confusing but I guess making friends does that to you.

Barry and everyone notices that "Dawn," is more withdrawn and doesn't get as angry or emotional as she does. She asks more questions though.

The twins were raised in Central until they were 2-3, then Barry and Len separated due to Len and Mick technically still being married, (they took a while for the divorce papers,) and that Len used to be a criminal/is still committing crimes/???/some other reason)

Len moved to Keystone for a bit then to Hub City. Lisa and Mick could watch EJ for a while. But Lisa and Mick both gets angry at him, Your daughter needs her father///You fought for your daughters/You got this one, what was all that fighting for then//If you're not going to be here for her

Later, They go into protective custody /sort of / to enlist in the capture of the "Legion of Doom," EJ is 9.

what up, this is all out of order and still need to learn how to write all of this fuck

Some scenes I want to write: 

EJ helps Cisco with some technology, which was strange, but she must have leave some of it at the camp. 

EJ helps Joe and Iris fix the wireless/wifi connector and TV set, which "I didn't know you could do that, usually Wally comes late and then he fixes it, then we finally get on with movie night..." 

(Cisco and Iris notices something is off about "Dawn," Joe catches EJ on the phone video chatting w Dawn (with headphones)... Joe starts weeping, Iris, Wally and Barry gets concern but Joe passes it off as I miss my grandbaby so much, all grown up

Barry figures it out once EJ gets in a fight / after the Flash rescues them and some others (some other teenage girls and their mothers who were being mean to EJ/thought they were Dawn) 

Barry comes late to pick EJ up, Barry gets a scolding from the mothers, EJ snaps and (VERY VERY CAPTAIN COLD LIKE) verbally eviscerate them about allowing her daughter push other kids around who are less fortunate, for the skin color and lack of something they can't control.)  

EJ then reveals to Barry that they are "Ellie," and that they know that her Dad is the Flash. 

(Dawn never figured it out, but Dawn starts developing her speedster powers at Len's) 

(Ummmm I can explain?? It's --- She gets cut off by Len, "I know it's you Dawn. A blabbermouth just like your father." Len softly says as he helps Dawn up from the mess)

[dracox-serdriel]

The Flash/Legends Theory

SPOILER ALERT: Spoilers for all episodes of The Flash through 03x18 Abra Kadabra and Legends of Tomorrow 02x16 Doomworld.

This post got really long, really fast. So I’ll post the theory points here and then explain things below. Everything is under the cut for length and spoilers. (See above for full spoiler warning!)

The Flash/Legends Theory (in brief) Basically, the Flash and Legends will have cross-over impact on one another this season beyond the direct cross-over episodes.

Barry has certainly learned his lesson about traveling through time to change the past. He won’t make that mistake again.

However, the other speedsters in this story might not be so certain about the lesson... or perhaps they’re willing to risk it. Or perhaps they do it by accident. Whatever the case may be, it’s possible that one or more of the hero!Speeders (Jesse Quick, E-3 Jay Garrick, Kid Flash) will be the ones to return to the point of Nora Allen’s murder and influence the history between that moment and “the present” this season.

Eobard Thawne brought back Eddie Thawne in Doomworld in order to prevent himself from becoming a time remnant that will constantly be hunted down by the SpeedForce.

Should the Legends succeed in their time-travel-to-fix-the-alternate-reality-thing, Eobard Thawne will somehow “bleed” Eddie Thawne back into reality the way that Wally West and the other Flashpoint metas received their powers from Flashpoint’s reality, even though by all technical accounts, Flashpoint didn’t happen.

While this will not be Season 1 Eddie Thawne, he will be very similar to the man, given that the entire point of bringing him back was to ensure he remained the man he would’ve been without Eobard’s shenanigans in history. All we really know is that Eobard somehow steered his own ancestor off course during his time in the past. It could have been as simple as when Barry Allen received his powers (given that he spent 9 months in a coma and that’s when Iris and Eddie started dating--had Barry gotten his powers as he did in the original time line, then perhaps he and Iris would’ve started dating). So Eddie Thawne might still be a police officer in Central City. He might even be at the same precinct. Or maybe he transferred to Keystone (nearby city) where he is fated to meet his wife...

If one of the other speedsters manipulates time outside the Nora-Allen-murder-hotspot, then it will to go back in time and make Barry forget seeing Iris murdered in the future. [Even better if it’s NOT one of the speedsters... what if Cisco figures out a way to Vibe himself into his past self?]

So when Barry returned to the SpeedForce to save Wally West, we learned that the SpeedForce really wasn’t pleased with these time traveling shenanigans. I personally think they’re being a little hard on Barry, what with Eobard Thawne still on the loose.

Everyone keeps saying that Barry created Flashpoint, but Eobard probably had more of a hand in it than “opps! something cosmic and awful happened and conveniently means this time remnant of me is still kicking!” Does the universe throw villains a bone every now and again? Sure. But this one seems a little too good to be true.

Then, in Legends of Tomorrow, the Legion of Doom manage to recreate reality by using the Spear of Destiny. Oddly, all the villains end up in the same time period, along with the (mind-blocked and powered-down) Legends. Eobard Thawne spent over a decade trying to return to the future, to his own time period, yet we find him as the new leader of STAR Labs in the very time and place he wanted to escape so badly.

We know that it’s the same time period because Thea, Tommy, and Rebecca (Malcolm’s wife) are all mentioned as alive, and on top of that, Damien’s hobbies include killing every hero he can find (so he can decorate his creepy Wall of Hero Masks--where we see evidence of the Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash dying at Damien’s behest).

This begs the question... why is Eobard in this time period? Wouldn’t it have been much easier to either re-write reality and either grant himself the ability to time travel without consequence or to simply write himself as returned to his own time period? Technology would be significantly more advanced, which means he could’ve destroyed the Spear of Destiny on Day 1 of the so-called Doomworld.

I think that, even though Eobard could’ve rewritten reality so that time wraiths didn’t exist or so that he alone could time-travel free of consequence, he instead chose to keep it simple. Rewriting the laws of something like the SpeedForce could incur unintended/unwanted consequences that might not become apparent until years later... that would be fine, except he planned to destroy the Spear of Destiny as soon as possible. The longer he kept it, the more danger of it being stolen and his work being undone. Thus, he decided not to rewrite the laws of the SpeedForce and time-remnants but to remedy his own timeline.

In short, he brought Eddie Thawne back to life, and set his ancestor on the path of marrying the right woman (whoever his great-great-grandmother was). This way, he is no longer an evil time remnant running for his life. The SpeedForce might have other quarrels with him, but it’s likely that the Flash Reaper (aka Black Flash) will be called back to the SpeedForce Waiting Room for his next assignment.

From the events of Season 3 of the Flash, we already know that stuff from other realities can “bleed” into this reality. Somehow Alchemy and Savitar were able to connect people with no meta-powers in this timeline with their powered counterparts from Flashpoint, including Wally West, aka Kid Flash.

So is it so impossible for something (or someone) from Doomworld to bleed into this timeline, too? (This question is based on the assumption that the Legends successfully prevent Doomworld from ever having occurred to begin with by using time travel. Hmmm... isn’t that exactly what happened to Flashpoint?)

Finally, there is something that has bothered me about the moment Barry keeps returning to in his past.

At the end of Season 1, he returned and waited, hidden, until the “battle” was over and the two speedsters left before he comforted his mother. (Hereafter known as S1!Barry.)

At the end of Season 2, he returned and stopped Eobard (Hereafter, known as S2!Barry), and S1!Barry, who had been waiting/not intervening, vanished into thin air.

At the beginning of Season 3, to undo Flashpoint, Barry (Hereafter known as S3!Barry) takes Eobard (hereafter known as S3!Eobard) back to that same moment so events will happen as they did before.

Okay, so here’s the thing. Both S1!Barry and S2!Barry would not have been in the house at all, had it not been for a currently unknown future!Barry battling future!Eobard and preventing him from killing young Barry. We know it’s a future!Barry because of the blood samples Cisco found in Season 1, which matched Barry’s metahuman/Flash-ified blood--not his childhood blood.

S3!Barry and S3!Eobard can’t be the future!Barry and future!Eobard battling it out -- Eobard himself admits that he killed Nora, Barry’s mother, because he was angry that young Barry had escaped his grasp, which means the future!Eobard didn’t know that he was going to fail. Thus, S3!Eobard wasn’t the same as future!Eobard, who had traveled to Barry’s childhood from the far future, specifically to kill the Flash before he acquires his powers.

So far, we have young Barry and Nora (who are supposed to be there, time-wise) at the house. Then we have the yet-unknown future!Barry and future!Eobard show up. Then we have three separate time incarnations of Barry (S1!Barry, S2!Barry and S3!Barry) as well as one additional time incarnation of Eobard (S3!Eobard) turn up to join the fray. That’s 2 Eobards, 4 Barrys (5 if you count the young version), and 1 Nora. We can safely assume that the future!Barry is the one who races his younger self away to safety... a few blocks away.

That seems a little weird, doesn’t it? I mean, epic Speedster battle, and you save your childhood self by moving him a few blocks away... without the evil Speedster following you. Eobard didn’t know his time travel had blown out his powers--he doesn’t find that out until after he has “failed” to kill Barry. So if his quarry was whisked away, why didn’t he follow?

The answer is simple: someone prevented him from following. Since Barry’s Flash-ified blood turned up in the house, we can safely assume that 1 of the 3 Barry’s kept future!Eobard busy while future!Barry raced off with his childhood self. The trouble with this is that we saw S1!Barry see a version of himself (future!Barry?) giving him the “nod, wink, stop here” look. Before S2!Barry and S3!Barry showed up, this would’ve been an ideal time for future!Eobard to go after young Barry. Even without his powers, the man could easily overtake a child and kill him.

This suggests that future!Barry did not come from the future alone.

In Season 1, young Barry recounts the “lightning man” and describes yellow and red lightning. It’s easy enough to assume that this means the Flash and the Reverse Flash were facing off together. But young Barry only describes seeing one man, which would be an easy enough mistake, given that these are Speedsters. They blur.

We also know that (so far) all incarnations of Barry work on a team of some kind. I think it would be highly unlikely for him to go on a mission like this - one that would define not just his fate, but so many others - without a little backup. And even if he would (you know, “to preserve the timeline” or whatever nonsense he comes up with...), is it likely that none of his team mates would defy his wishes (and time-law) to save his life? Probably not.

So what if future!Barry didn’t whisk young Barry away? What if that was Wally West, Earth-3 Jay Garrick, or Earth-2 Jesse Quick? Anyone with red or yellow lightning could’ve pulled this off.

Heck, it could have been Doomworld!Eobard or future!Future!Eobard correcting his error--for all we know, he learns that, without Barry Allen as the Flash, Eobard Thawne never amounts to anything. So he goes back in time to save himself from making the worst possible mistake. It’s not like he’s the only speedster doing that. (Though the yellow lightning left in the wake of whoever-saved-young-Barry suggests that it wasn’t Eobard. It’s just a fun thought.)

Anyway, let’s assume it’s not Eobard, but one of our known speedster heroes. Future!Barry would probably be really pissed, right? Especially if they broke the laws of time to help him. It might’ve been just enough to distract him from his fight with future!Eobard -- just enough to cause his mother’s death before he can chase Eobard out. It would also explain why future!Barry failed to catch up with Eobard minutes later, when his powers failed him and he could so easily be captured. Future!Barry was too busy trying to save his co-hero from a time wraith or something.

Seriously, there has to be a reason (besides a massive plot hole) that future!Barry just left Eobard in the past when he could’ve easily been detained and brought back to the correct time period. His powers had blown out, and he would’ve been easy to find given the yellow suit and the fact that he was one of the few living metahumans on the planet in that time period. Future!Barry should’ve had him hog tied and in a jail cell seconds later. Instead, Future!Barry seems to go back to the future, leaving a very dangerous Eobard in the past, where he proceeds to screw up history, even without his Speedster powers.

So maybe future!Barry only had a narrow window he could remain in the past, or maybe he was trying to keep the timeline as in tact as possible. But it would  be much better if future!Barry was forced between seeking and punishing a weakened Eobard Thawne and saving one of his friends. Or if said friend whisked future!Barry away in order to stop him from capturing Eobard (in order to preserve the already way-too-freaking-complicated timeline!)

Okay, so we have Eobard-Doomworld weirdness. Check.

We have unknown future events still yet to unfold that directly affect the Nora-Allen-Murder-hotspot. Check.

We have a reason to suspect that alternate realities undone by time travel can (and do) leave echoes, traces, and other markers that impact this reality. Check.

We have one hero (and probably one villain, too) who knows traveling to the past to change things is NOT a magical undo button. Check.

Let’s put all of that aside for a moment, though, and ask the question everyone has been asking about Season 3.

How can the Flash save Iris West? Barry has a date, time, and a location. He also has friends who can jump into other universes (Cisco, Gypsy), acquaintances who can shapeshift (J’onn from Supergirl), and friends in the multiverse who could help him hide Iris not only in another universe but on other planets, too (Kara from Supergirl springs to mind, but I am sure there are others).

Savitar might try to kill her, but does he possess the means to travel to other planets in the same universe? He can clearly jump universes--but traveling the multiverse on the “same” planet isn’t the same as space travel. So why not hide with Iris on Earth-28′s moon? Or Earth-37′s Mars? Or Earth-2′s Venus? He’d only have to avoid Earth-1′s Central City for a day. Problem solved.

But instead Barry becomes obsessed with changing events between then and now, convinced it’s the only way. The obsession leads to a number of bad decisions a la self-fulfilling prophecy, including Wally West throwing the last bit of the “Key” Savitar required to escape his SpeedForce prison.

It could be argued that, had none of them known that Savitar would kill Iris, that they would’ve made drastically different choices... and Savitar would still be locked up in his SpeedForce cell.

For example, Caitlin might’ve squirreled away that tiny bit of the Philosopher’s Stone (the “Key”) for years and years before mentioning it, since Iris’s life wasn’t on the line (as far as they knew). And that would mean that Wally wouldn’t’ve known where it was, and therefore Savitar couldn’t manipulate him into throwing it into the SpeedForce.

The best way to save Iris’s life is... to forget that she will die. Erase or remove that foreknowledge.

I think that Earth-3 Jay Garrick already knows this. Not because he’s from the future, though. Because he bumps into someone from the future trying to change the past---and he begs whoever it is to give him the chance to make things right without time travel... to convince Barry to have faith and do the right thing (forget about the possible future he witnessed--don’t obsess over it) without being manipulated.

He fails, leaving the time-traveler with no choice but to complete the original mission: either make Barry forget what he saw or prevent him from seeing it to begin with...

The Flash/Legends Theory - Recap

No more traveling to the past to change things for Barry.

Everybody else on the show is exempt from the above statement. It only applies to Barry.

Eobard Thawne has kept things simple, bringing his ancestor back to life (and on track) in Doomworld.

Eobard Thawne can and will keep said ancestor alive, even if Doomworld goes poof and begone thanks to time travel.

Eddie Thawne will not only be very similar to his Season 1 version, someone from Team Flash is bound to run into him not long after Doomworld undone. Confusion will ensue.

The best way to save the day would be for someone (anyone) to go back in time and either prevent Barry from seeing Savitar kill Iris or to wipe his memory of it before he tells anyone and they all become obsessed with “saving Iris.”

Thus, a Flash/Legends cross-over impact.

[pervincetosscobble]

finished my young justice rewatch here are some Thoughts And Feelings (this is a very long post sorry to mobile users)

let me begin this post by saying bart allen is my one and only true ultimate favorite, and also if you’ve ever wanted to see (um, hear) me cry you can do that now thanks to bart allen

i was surprised by how much some of my opinions/faves changed tbh? i was. god, i was 13 the first time this show aired and 15 when it ended, so it tracks that now, 4-6 years later (???!?!?!?!?) things won’t be the same, but some changes were. significant

i’m adopting conner, for starters

conner loves sociology. pry this headcanon from my cold dead hands, motherfuckers

conner also knows a lot of really weird pieces of trivia

conner was a good student but also didn’t care about school

i remember not being really into conner/m’gann the first time around but i was kind of taken in by them in s1? these two kids trying to find their home in a world that wasn’t made for them.

conner and m’gann had a lot of date nights themed around Get To Know Earth Culture

some of these involved bioship travels and, like, day trips to paris just because they could

some of these were like. improv lessons and pottery classes.

i’m also still not super happy about the hints that they get back together post-s2. like. i hope they become friends again, that’d be good, but i refuse to believe conner would be okay with dating her again after what she did the first time.

point that has only just occurred to me: in the beginning of s1 conner is vastly uncomfortable with telepaths. by the end he’s totally okay with it because of m’gann. and i’d bet money there’s a point somewhere mid-timeskip where, because of her, he was no longer okay with them anymore.

one the note of the timeskip: five years seems RIDICULOUSLY long to me, especially considering that every plot-significant change happened “in the last few months.” like, what was the goal? aging dick up to nightwing? five years is SO MUCH missing lore, so many stories they could’ve fleshed out. make it two years. hell, if two is a squeeze, i could’ve gone for three. but five years?? nah, dude.

the best thing about the timeskip was domestic wally/artemis, which, like, i was totally enamored with them, so much, and their relationship development, and everything about them

i also liked kaldur’s character a lot more this time around, although i’ve got to say i’m not wild about them basically fridging tula?? (i’ll admit to not being super familiar with aquafam lore, so i don’t know how true to the comics that is, but they didn’t have to do it in the show) like, i know that it turns out he didn’t really go mad with manpain grief and turn evil, but i think there’s an equally powerful story in tula being injured and recovering in a world where she thinks kaldur abandoned her, in kaldur having to lie to her face instead of using her memory as justification

in general i think s2 could’ve benefitted from some trimming? i love all the freshmen, i really do, but it wouldn’t have been the worst thing if there were a few less of them.

alternately - and i know, networks and whatever - if s2 had been two seasons, or even had half a dozen more episodes, i think it would’ve benefitted from that, too

gotta say, the light gets old real fast. or at least, like, the whole “everything got super fucked” “no, everything went exactly as we planned it” things. like, you’re telling me the team never once threw them a curveball. never. really

13yo dick’s shenanigans and wordplay were a lot funnier when i was 13

now that i am an adult i feel..... a little more skeevy about canon-era jaime/bart than i did when i was 15 and i actually knew 13-year-olds who were dating 16-year-olds and saw nothing wrong with it? but i maintain that they have a solid friendship and definitely end up dating once they’re in their twenties

zatanna is my hero

this show vastly, vastly underutilized raquel. it’s a damn shame.

you know who else was great? mal. mal definitely saves puppies in his spare time and knows three languages and at least seven forms of martial arts and every teammate’s abilities and fears and favorite colors and everything there is to know about karen

artemis/zatanna is good

you know how jade just showed up and was like “yo roy look at our daughter”?? i like the idea of jade just, like, casually dropping lian’s existence into daily conversation.

“i miss alcohol now that i’m pregnant,” jade says. artemis chokes.

“this mission can’t take too long, i told the babysitter i’d be back by 9,” cheshire says. “the what,” sportsmaster shouts.

i still ADORE the runaway team, including og!roy, and man, i didn’t come out of this rewatch shipping a lot, but i love the idea of the runaway squad being kind of a tangled poly mess. ed is dating roy and asami, tye is dating asami and virgil, asami loves all her boys and understands why roy isn’t interested, etc.

like this fic for the disney film descendants

but also, like, in general, i really fucking love these kids

this show has a lot of really weird dad plots, which is strange for me bc my dad and i used to text after every episode, but also in general it’s interesting seeing the vast range of potential dads. for instance:

clark “i didn’t ask to be a dad” kent, who eventually transitions into an apparently passable dad? it’s not clear

black manta, who is morally a shitheel but also one of the most supportive dads on this show

barry, who definitely wanted to be more of an uncle than a dad

lex, who wanted to buy his genetically-experimented kids’ love

ollie, who really had a hell of a time

and of course dinah, who is the best mom and probably the best parent on the entire damn show

(also bruce, who didn’t do much dadding, but damn if i didn’t tear up at him talking to dick/tim/babs before he left earth)

gar logan is the team’s adoptive little brother. all of them, but especially the original six. and probably also zatanna and rocket.

i’d be able to go into more detail if we had more goddamn information about who joined the team when, which we don’t, because five year timeskip

but anyways since gar and m’gann are pseudo-siblings they’re closest, and then gar also loves conner, because who wouldn’t love their sister’s cool boyfriend?

conner is overwhelmed and kind of pleased by this

after conner and m’gann broke up gar was very worried that his sister’s cool ex-boyfriend wouldn’t want to hang around him anymore

conner did. conner and gar are basically brothers.

gar loves the entire original team, period

also i wanna throw it out there: ik there was a show-specific comic tie-in. i have read none of it. so if i say anything that doesn’t mesh with that it’s because i don’t care a ton about the comics? the show is probably better anyways

god i think that’s just about everything? so to wrap up this extremely long post i’m gonna go out of bulletpoint style here

i’m excited for s3! i really am. i can’t wait to see what they do with it. but also i’ve been convinced since i was 15 that the very last scene, with darksied and apokalips (which i deffo just spelled wrong but anyways), that scene only exists bc the producers were like “fuck it, we’re getting cancelled, might as well go all in” and just threw garbage in to make it seem like there was a conspiracy

like, this is a deep cut here, but there’s an episode of phineas and ferb that ended with a “next time” that was a series of nonsensical dramatic scenes, and then they tried to make an episode out of it and it was basically gibberish, and i’m really concerned that’s what’s going to happen here

but tldr i did enjoy this show a lot, and i’m glad i had the chance to rewatch it, and if anyone has their own thoughts to share y’all are welcome to hit me up!!

[nerdcorp]

Top Ten Things The Arrowverse Has Gotten Wrong

The Arrowverse has been around for five years now.  We’ve gotten four corp shows, two (soon to be three) animated series, and one dead Constantine series that some can’t agree on it’s standing within the universe as a whole.  However, the series, ran by Marc Guggenheim and Greg Berlanti have made some colossal mistakes.  This post is the top ten things they’ve blown since starting the universe. (There will be another for the Top Ten Things They Got Right and Top Things to Fix these problems, so I’m not just going to be a Debbie-downer.)

10) Poorly Constructed Female Characters  - Now, I know this is going to get soo much hate.  However, please, let me explain.  Not every female on this show has been presented poorly, in fact most that have been were eventually fixed with better writing.  That’s what the problem is on the show, the writing.  And unfortunately they blow the female characters the most.  The biggest example of poorly executed female characters is in fact Felicity Smoak.  Felicity, for good or bad is constantly shown to be an antagonist for Oliver Queen.  Not in the sense that she’s a villain but in the sense that she constantly either disagrees or fights with Oliver over just about everything.  Their dynamic has ruined a lot of fans interest in not juts her as a character, but in the show as a whole.  Laurel Lance and Iris West were also the same way for a while.  With Iris getting mad at Barry for being The Flash and not disclosing this fact to her, and with Laurel constantly just...well...being Laurel.  However both characters were structured better going forward and now both are held in high esteem.  With the way Felicity has been portrayed, and the amount of drama her character causes, most fans just want her gone. 

9) Ignoring Comic-Centric Elements - Piggybacking off of the last point, Laurel.  Laurel Lance isn’t even her real name.  It’s Dinah Laurel Lance, and she’s referred to as Dinah.  Why the change happened to refer to her as Laurel, a name no one ever addressed her by in the comics, is confusing.  Other glaring issues involve Jimmy Olsen going from Geek to GQ, Mister Terrific’s name change from Michael to Curtis, and maybe my most angry reference; Nate Heywood’s backstory being completely altered.  There are other examples...but we’ll move on.   (Like Stargirl being active in the 40′s?!)

8) Very Little World Building - Ok, now someone is going to swing at me for this one, but hold up.  We’re well over 200 episodes in across four live action series, and two animated (and five/three with Constantine).  Yet, how much of this world has really been explored?  Oliver only goes to Asia if he leaves Star City, Barry is seemingly confined to one city despite his abilities, Supergirl has been pretty singular in her city and the Legends are more worried about historical moments than in exploring the here and now.  There are thousands of superheroes in thousands of cities, in all points of the world.  One would think we’d see more world building on the prime Earth.  This also kind of goes hand in hand with the multi-verse too.  We know so little about Earth 2, and even less about all the other Earths we see.  Why not spend some time exploring those worlds instead of the repeated “Speedster vs. Speedster” concept on The Flash?

7) Wasted Legends Concept - I like Legends of Tomorrow, it’s a fun show.  However time travel is lame.  It’s confusing and leads to too many paradoxes.  So why even do time travel?  The thing they should of done was make them the multiverse exploring series.  The Flash does it twice or three times a season, but could you imagine Heatwave having to fight Captain Carrot?  Or White Canary dealing with Walter West?  It could also have given us the most insane version of Batman ever, Thomas Wayne.  Lets be real, he’s probably not going to get a movie, or involved in a movie in an ensemble production, so why not have a three episode arch involving Thomas’ Batman?  The time travel concept is good for a passing tongue in cheek joke, but it rarely ever does anything worth talking about.  (Save for the Jonah Hex episode). 

6) No ‘Team’ Show - Now, again, let me duck while you throw things at me.  As good as Legends is, it’s not the “team” show we wanted.  Yes, we get Citizen Steel, Atom, White Canary and Firestorm, but they’ve never felt like a real team, just rotating members of a make shift police force.  With so many established, and legendary teams that DC could focus on, the fact we got a made-for-tv one is crap. No Justice League?  Fine.  A historically inaccurate Justice Society, come on.  No Titans, Teen Titans, Outlaws, or any other major DC hero squad is a joke. 

5) Wasted Heroes - Arsenal, Speedy, Black Canary, Hawkman and Hawkgirl.  Not too mention Superman, Jay Garrick, and Wildcat as well.  They all fall under the banner of “wasted” heroes.  Of all of them, only Speedy, Superman and Garrick have a shot at getting more air time.  Dinah Laurel Lance was killed off, The Hawks’ were written off t.v. after Ciara Renee left the show for an undisclosed reason.  There were rumblings that she didn’t like the fanbase and felt attacked, thus opting to leave, though that’s never been confirmed.  Her departure left them with nothing for the Hawkman character to do.  The biggest grievance though goes to the Wildcat character.  After appearing for a few episodes in Season 3 of Arrow, we haven’t seen him since.  Why?  Why is a character with such a deep backstory not being explored more?

4) No Mystery - This one pisses me off so much.  Just about every main character on every show knows everyone’s secret identity.  This universe is FUCKING TERRIBLE about secret identities.  With Arrow, it made sense that Felicity and Diggle, and eventually Roy all finding out the truth.  But every single time a new character debuts, they get shown Oliver’s secret identity and the mystery is gone again.  The list of people who know that the mayor is the vigilante Green Arrow is huge!  And some of them are villains!  If I’m The Huntress, I out Oliver just for shits and giggles.  Argus, Team Flash, the Legends, I have a hard time thinking of people who don’t know the heroes secret identities.  It’s a fucking nightmare.  Why does Berlanti and Guggenheim hate the idea of secret identities?  It took four seasons for Clark’s best friend to find out he was gifted in Smallville.  It was, what, six seasons for Lana?  It wasn’t until the season finale of 9 that Lois found out.  Why does everyone always have to know?  Why can’t we have some people left out of the loop?  

3) Lack of Creative/Major Names - This is understandable for the lack of Batman, Green Lantern Jordan, and Wonder Woman.  However, why aren’t we getting Metamorpho?  Sugar and Spike?  Guy Gardner?  Fire and Ice?  Dr. Fate?  Alan Scott? Detective Chimp?!  Come on guys!  I know getting Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and others is a challenge, but can’t we get some creative names?  Some interesting secondary or tertiary level characters?  Are we really expecting to get Deadman and Zantana in films in the next ten years?  Do better!

2) Wasted Villains - This will actually be on both lists, because the Arrowverse does great work with bringing back major villains.  However, especially on Arrrow, they KILL THEM ALL OFF!  Vertigo could of been a huge enemy for Oliver’s Green Arrow, and even could of been his Joker.  The actor who played him was amazing, and the motivations to stop him were so personal.  If you read the Jeff Lemire “Green Arrow” run, you know how great of a villain he could of been.  They also wasted another Lemire villain, Komodo.  In the Lemire run, he was able to hunt down and destroy everything Oliver held dear.  He was seen as this unstoppable force of nature, and his daughter was even Oliver’s half sister.  And yes, she wanted to kill Oliver too!  Wanna know what Berlanti did with this amazing character?  Nothing, they made him a generic mercenary with no ties to Queen or his family.  Another major villain wasted on Arrow, and even more so, was Constantine Drakon.  He’s viewed by many to be an equal to Green Arrow and is one of the few people who can give him constant trouble.  So does Arrow build around the villain and help set the show apart?  Nope.  Did they kill him off randomly in the pilot?  Yup. 

1) Hot-Shotting Storylines - This is the biggest of the big.  The worst of the worst.  The wasted storylines, the wasted build up, the wasted opportunity.  This isn’t just evident in Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl or Legends of Tomorrow, but it’s happening right now on Riverdale too.  This idea that major story arcs need to be wrapped up in an episode or two is just mind-numbingly stupid.  From Iris being thrust right into the middle of the “Save Iris” storyline from the 3rd season, or the fall out over Felicity and Rory being resolved within several episodes.  These are things that could be stretched out over a season and really highlighted.  They not only involve the two individuals but the entire cast.  Yet, they’re constantly hot-shotted for the sake of more over the top mellowdrama.  You know we’re going to have to live with Iris crying over her future for the last half of the season, right?  Why rush such a crucial element?  This is one example, as we have more examples.  Lots of examples.  Stein’s kid, Supergirl’s relationship with Mon El, the return of Oliver Queen from the dead, Wally West getting his powers....etc etc etc...

That all being said, we’ll have a top ten things that they’ve done right column coming up.  So keep an eye out for that.

For the Top Ten Things The Arrowverse Got Right, click HERE!