#or that he misses dean’s abusive actions and when dean forms any relationships outside of them he lashes out
Explore tagged Tumblr posts
Text
This is one of the funniest things I have ever read
#this is one of those mutual abuse posts#see i don’t think you should never talk about the ways in which sam and dean have hurt each other#but in this post it’s so obvious that op doesn’t really have anything proper to say about sam and so resorts to either#making up the stupidest ideas (sam doesn’t respect dean’s gender struggles or needs and is constantly judging him and makes poor dean so#insecure about himself)#or like… genuine victim blaming#like i don’t even like throwing these kind of accusations around in fandom but genuinely victim blaming logic#like even if you don’t think it applies to sam it was still very much victim blaming#like one of their points was that sam is overtly emotionally dependent on dean and resents it but still puts the pressure on dean#or that he misses dean’s abusive actions and when dean forms any relationships outside of them he lashes out#generally a huge point was that sam ‘acts out all the time’ in order to get dean to take action against him and then resents it m#and blames dean entirely even though the entire situation was of his making’#i don’t even agree with any of that but the points themselves are pretty fucking weird#fandom wank#spn#supernatural#unsure if i should even tag this. oh well#also one of the points was that while dean seems more misogynistic it’s just spn standard sexism#sam is sexist on a deeper level as shown in how he dominates women in sex and projects his mommy issues onto them#i mean…. hot if that happens… but this is so stupid for an analysis#also yes sam like everyone on the show has some misogynistic tendencies but i don’t think this is an instance of them#also like inagine saying sam is more misogynistic than dean#dean winchester#sam winchester#fandom discourse#discourse#fandom critical
5 notes
·
View notes
Note
Sometimes I feel guilty for disliking Dean. I love Sam so much, but I just can't, love his brother (the one he thinks so highly), every so often. Am I being paranoid for thinking Dean's abusive? The fandom seem to strongly disagree (so strong it feels false), though I've lots of doubts. Help please? Thank you.
Hello, anon. I feel bad about being critical of Dean’s actions a lot, too. I haven’t always disliked Dean, but I don’t entirely hate him, either (any of my enjoyment of Dean is unlikely to be found on my blog anymore, though). I do feel very unfair to him sometimes, mainly because he’s been through so much.
I think that when Sam argues against Dean, he feels similar to how you do. “Sam loves Dean, is he being too hard on him? Does he owe Dean? Their/Dean’s friends side with Dean, should he keep up or apologize and follow Dean again?” But Sam loving someone who it is unhealthy to be around is not mutually exclusive from being critical of Dean’s actions, which is something the fandom doesn’t seem to comprehend. Sam /is/ happy with Dean, just not with what Dean has forced him through. As much as I wish sometimes that Sam would stay away from Dean forever, I know how much Sam would miss him. That’s why I like to think about Sam’s happy ending in a scenario in which Dean has grown, apologized, and developed. To that end, I hold out hope for Dean to change. But that’s getting off topic… When it comes down to it, your dislike of Dean is because he is abusive to Sam, and that is perfectly reasonable and nothing to feel guilty about. My dislike of Dean, in more specific terms, is because he is abusive, misogynistic etc., and immoral, but it gets little to no acknowledgment from the show or the fandom. If the narrative bias of the show, which ranked in the the absolute worst ten for the number of female writers/producers up until season 12, didn’t push Dean’s point of view over Sam’s and gave Sam a voice, then I think it would be very different. (If you follow me and a lot of other Bitter Sam Girls, you can find meta on Sam in a female archetype role in extension to Dean.)
You’re not exaggerating when you say Dean is abusive of Sam. ‘Abuse’ is not an insult, it’s a term that is defined by a set of actions. It is not subjective. Much of the fandom seems to be unable to recognize abuse (or understand its objectivity) in a given scenario when a character they love and enjoy is the accused, so even if they love Sam as much as Dean, they will deflect blame onto him to protect their vision of Dean, even if it means calling the victim an abuser. To them, ‘abuse’ isn’t a set of actions, something that can even happen between people who genuinely love each other, but what they see in mainstream media. To this effect, we also see fandom excusing Dean of his actions by saying: Sam can defend himself/isn’t a dainty housewife, Sam deserves it, owes Dean, or, if they believe Sam is morally imperfect, or if he fights back, it’s “mutual abuse” (a form of victim-blaming perpetuated by abusers/enablers to shoulder blame onto the victim, but which cannot exist due to the inherent power imbalance of an abusive relationship).
Enablers can make a victim or another outside party feel as guilty as the abuser themself can for believing the abuser to be abusive (sorry for the tongue-twister there). You shouldn’t feel guilty for it, no matter how much Sam loves Dean, no matter how much Dean loves Sam, no matter what happens outside of Dean’s abuse of Sam. Dean’s actions definitively indicate abuse (and if one is unwilling to name it abuse, said actions are at least extremely toxic and cloying), and that is the only reason you need. Nothing else will excuse the fact.
You are not paranoid, and chances are, if you’re being made to feel that way, you’re simply making observations others are too afraid to see into or look at honestly. If the fandom is making you feel bad for considering the possibility, then it might be afraid of what you’ll reveal. In order to defend an abuser, there has to be a very precise but precarious rationale to defend them by. A single gust of logic can send it toppling, but even then they’ll pretend it’s still standing. A lot of avoiding feelings of uncertainty and self-distrust is in recognizing when this happens and simply sticking to the central point of your argument. The fandom will pretty much dig its own grave from there on out.
For example, back before iFunny became entirely conservative, I would post about the show on there and do my daily do to defend Sam and argue for my viewpoints, the same as I do on Tumblr. This one person came into the comment section to tell me that Sam is responsible for Kevin’s death. I said that Sam had absolutely no agency/bodily autonomy in the situation, that it may have been Sam’s body but it was entirely the will of Gadreel, and that Sam did not consent to possession. Eventually, the guy said, “Okay, I guess you’re right. I just really hate Sam,” and insulted Sam for being ‘bitchy’ and ungrateful to Dean, etc. I thanked him for admitting the truth and bolted, basically. Every time I have a moment of self-doubt in defending Sam, I think back to moments like those to remind myself that there is truth to what I’m saying.
If you engage in discourse over the subject, another important thing to hold your ground is to listen to the other person’s argument and take it seriously. If you let them explain themselves and provide understanding for how they came to their conclusion, even as you dismantle their argument, they’ll be less angry and more malleable to your own. They’ll also feel less like you’re condemning them and more like you’re presenting information from which they can come to their own conclusion. You may also be able to separate genuine arguments (‘Sam has done _ and _, so isn’t that mutual abuse?’ to which the answer is ‘no, there is no such thing, let me explain’) on Sam’s morality from subjective ones (anything that amounts to Sam being bitchy or whatever has naught to do with whether Sam should stand up to Dean for, say, violating his bodily autonomy). If a person uses an extremely subjective argument to make a moral statement on Sam, you can address that it is a valid reason why the person may dislike Sam, but has no influence on the morality of the situation. It isn’t always the case, however, that a person will be civil back to you. Some people will not be moved and you just have to block and move on.
Sorry for such a wordy response, but I wanted to cover as many bases as I could with this question. If you want to get into something more specifically, feel free to send in another ask. I’ll respond as soon as I can. Best wishes 💖💖💖🥔💖
#bitter sam girl: bitters#give sam a voice#nice anon is nice#bitter sam girl is bitter#sam winchester deserves better#sam winchester deserves a life#consideration for sam winchester#my cat was sleeping next to me while I typed. she is such a powerful woman I lover her sm.#sam and abuse#dean critical#fandom critical#Sam defense#asks for eru#my stuff#my meta#[email protected]#spn
40 notes
·
View notes