#ooc: they could easily go down the bitter route again but will try not to let them do that lol

[the-fog-isnt-real]

Hello.

I believe we met before.

@ren-cormander-archival-intern

oh, it's you!

so i was right about you after all. to some extent, at least.

[userseokkie]

Steve Rogers is a walking contradiction: the anti military soldier

After reading this meta on a gifset about Steve and Tony i got carried away and wrote essentially an essay about the analysis that had been made. and while i agree with the general sentiment of the post, some things didn’t sit right with me. btw i decided to make this my own separate post because this isn’t intended to start an argument or derail the original post, i know it can be annoying for gif makers to have dozens of comments added onto their posts.

(the meta in question)

ok so full disclaimer I’m not American and I’m not white. i just felt like this analysis was really interesting and when I read it I couldn’t stop all these thoughts that formed in my head, next thing I know I had written all of this in like 30 minutes. I’m not trying to argue or start shit, this is my own personal analysis of Steve’s character and why I don’t agree with some things said above.

First of all, let’s get this out of the way: Steve does not trust the US government. at least not blindly. the fact that he’s still the little shit that had a real problem w authority figures is something they touch upon on catfa a lot. he changed on the outside but on the inside he’s still that idiot punk kid and like, I get what the tags above me are saying but also Steve’s arc is more than that? and let’s not forget this stupid movie was written and directed by thanos Joss “I’m the true feminist ally” whedon so I would take this exchange with a grain of salt. I mean this is the movie that gave us “gOllY tHeRe’S OnLy oNe gOd m'Am” and “sOn oF a GuN” Stephen Rogers which is the most ooc thing I’ve seen since endgame’s Steve. Steve is a fucking potty mouth ffs he’s Irish and a soldier, so that doesn’t even make sense. but anyway, my point is something else, nvm this movie’s portrayal of Steve in general.

I guess we could probably argue all day long abt which Steve portrayal is the most accurate one since his character in the MCU is the one that’s suffered the most at the hands of inconsistent characterization, but I prefer thinking he already WAS someone that was well aware of the horrors of war and how unfair it was to recruit people w lies and the promises of education opportunities and loans for the poor to join the army, because he LIVED that he grew up dirt poor and had to see his mom take on three different jobs to support herself and him, so he’d consider this attempt to bring civilians into the military life by preying on their needs disgusting, he’d be fucking seething with anger. and if he had lived through the 60s (which I think it’s better for everyone involved that he didn’t, can u imagine poor guy would’ve died from the disappointment in what his country had become) I highly doubt he would’ve been the bitter WWII vet that defended Vietnam and shit on the protestors……. Steve would support the citizens’ rights to ask for accountability and demand justice!! even the hippie movement I think he would’ve been ok with when he saw that they were advocating FOR PEACE. that’s why he enlisted on the war after all, to bring the fight to an end and to have Bucky come HOME. I think Steve rogers would be all for peace. I mean, civil disobedience and telling the government to shove it? that’s Steve Rogers’ goddamn ethos. he would be all over that shit.

I agree w op’s tags where they say Steve doesn’t represent America, he represents what America wishes it had been. and I think Steve himself would be well aware he’s the anomaly here, the one that should have been America’s highest ideal. and I think that makes Steve very wary of his own image, anything he endorses becomes what America endorses. Steve rogers isn’t important, Captain America is. but I think Steve’s response here has more to do with his coping mechanisms to deal with loss, rather than coming from a place of “oh we’re soldiers, it’s what we do, we die for our country.” while Tony’s response comes from a place of anger (we are NOT soldiers!!! fuck u old man, i never asked for this!!! coulson didn’t ask for this!!!!!) Steve’s reaction comes from the intrinsic nihilism and dadaism product of his own time. it’s not that he’s minimizing Coulson’s death, it’s more that he’s so used to losing people, the thousands he met that died in European soil, the sick and ill from his ma’s work that died everyday, his own father whom he never even met, that his mechanism is to just. shut down. shrug it off a bit, even. people die. every day. “for believing” means for standing for something, because Steve is WELL aware that people that stand for nothing will fall for anything, and standing for something gives counterbalance to the official agenda. in his eyes, Coulson died not because he’s a soldier and winning the war means being prepared to make a few sacrifices. Coulson died because he chose to believe in something that the majority didn’t care about or even actively sought to destroy (the wsc over fury’s shoulder) and he died because he would not back down from the fight. I can do this all day is something Steve feeds off of because he knows that when you stop getting up from the ground, anyone and anything can strike you down.

but on another note, I get that Avengers happens literally 6 fucking days after he woke up from the ice, he probably had no time to catch up on all the atrocities the US had done on his behalf, or rather on what they said he represented, on the ideal he died defending and the US took and twisted and tore apart until it was no longer recognizable. Steve being a week out of the ice is super sad and to me, the biggest crime this movie did was literally brushing off Steve’s trauma, being riddled with PTSD and shocked from waking up seventy years in the future was not even addressed. at all. this could’ve been easily avoided by setting the movie at least a couple of months AFTER he wakes up. but whatever. After learning of all the shit the US has done, I think Steve rogers would be the first to walk out of there and be like “fuck it, I died for this country and you took it and fucked it up and now young people and people who’ve been killed for protesting your shitty ass decisions genuinely believe I would side with the government. they think I’M the stubborn baby boomer who kisses government boots and would approve of the Gulf War or the Vietnam War or the Central American coups or the war on terror or any of the stupid shit you’ve pulled in the 70 years I was gone!!! YOU MADE ME A SYMBOL FOR YOUR BIGOTRY WHAT THE FUCK”. so he obviously needs time to catch up on all of that before realizing how bad they fucked up his memory and how corrupt the system has become. but Steve’s depiction as a boy scout who believes the US can do nothing bad is inherently wrong and something only this one movie tries to do. no other movie featuring Cap tries to drive the point home that Cap is a goodie two shoes who still believes in american exceptionalism.

CATWS was the gold standard because it truly touched upon the cognitive dissonance Steve experiences coming out of a 70 year nap. the loss he experiences not only for being “the man out of time”, but the true man behind the symbol. heavy are the shoulders that carry the world indeed. and he’s been carrying the entire world on his since he decided to become Captain America. I truly believe the tragedy of Steve Rogers comes from the lack of agency he has over the Captain image, one that has been used to prop up political agendas over and over again. of course, he’s the one that decides to be Captain America as much as he is Steve rogers, blurring the lines between the two men. he could’ve retired, he could’ve adopted a new mantle or even go the old reliable route and try to keep a civilian life away from the superhero gig. but he didn’t. even in the comics whenever he tried to do that it didn’t stick for more than a few issues. so, you know in CATWS he truly experiments what it’s like to pull back the curtain and see the wizard behind it, he faces this disenchantment with the institutions that created him, both SHIELD and the US government. this helps pinpoint the moment he grows super distrustful of politics and agendas, because up until this point he’d only been in the battlefield, and he realizes governments cannot be trusted to make the right decision or even act in benefit of their people.

this way, Civil War does make sense when you see how Steve has grown so disappointed with modern politics that he sees the Sokovia accords as one big red flag, and the first step in a direction that only points toward authoritarianism and civil control. this movie deals with many things poorly of course, but one thing that doesn’t feel ooc is Steve telling the UN to fuck off. He wasn’t around to see the formation of the united nations remember? he literally has no background on what collective security and globalized autonomy are. there’s many things that could’ve been different in CW, but Steve was on the “right” side of the conflict for his character. (i’m NOT saying there’s a wrong and a right side on the Civil war dilemma. that whole thing was badly written so let’s just say it made sense in a hypothetical way). supporting the government in any capacity isn’t a part of Steve’s “thing”, but even when/if he sided with the US govt, he’d never endorse a political agenda that he perceives as “wrong”, knowing it’s hypocritical to do so. 

he doesn’t think the end justify the means, which is highly different from Tony’s pragmatism. if Steve and Tony represented opposing philosophical movements, Tony would be utilitarianism and Steve would be deontology. this brings the analysis full circle by pointing out that yes, Tony and Steve operate differently in theory, but in practice they both work for the same objective. Tony is the cynic product of his own doing, he understands how war can destroy and he knows the US has a bad track record of owning up to its own shit. and because of that, he believes that the most good he can do is in his own hands (and because of his extremist way of thinking, he also equates that with being the only one who can do it and therefore, he must, no matter the personal cost). On the other hand, Steve is the idealist product of other’s people efforts, he understands how sometimes war can be the only way to save what is worth saving, but also how it can corrupt even the noblest of men. and because of that, he believes that the most good he can do must be done because other people believe in him, and because by setting the example, others can follow and make the world a better place. (and because of his very stubborn nature, he also equates that with being the ‘tree that must plant itself in the ground and say no, you move’.)

so what I guess I’m trying to say, is that to me at least, saying that Steve Rogers would be in favor of US militarism or that he equates the word “soldier” with hero is a huge disservice to his character. the fact that he’s a fictional character that was first conceived as WWII propaganda is not relevant, because I choose to believe the idea that says fiction stops being the creator’s own the moment it’s out in the world. And Steve Rogers NOW is a different character and serves a different purpose than what he was originally intended to. His entire origin is based on being a soldier, yes, but what makes his character so compelling is the juxtaposition between being a soldier and being essentially opposed to what the US military complex entails. he embodies a lot of american values ofc, like freedom and right of free speech and so, but my take is that he defends this values in a way that is distinctly non American. setting aside discussions of propaganda and the integrity of an art form, i think he’s been written in a way that evokes patriotism without being exclusively american. i mean heck, Steve rogers makes me proud to be from my own country, and inspires me to be better while never reminding me of the fact that he’s from an imperialist super power. Star spangled suit aside, he’s probably a fair enough representation of what one's love for their own country can bring to the surface, no matter which country specifically. i could delve more into that, but this is already getting too long and, since i already mentioned, I’m not from the US and my cultural upbringing is far different from the US. so i’m not sure i could make such a poignant analysis about the military culture and the way it impacts characters such as Steve. 

[sakumosowainthirst]

I’m running on 4 hours of sleep and coffee; let’s make a controversial post! Today’s topic: Fates/Awakening ships I hate!  :D

Preface: I’m not hating on anyone who ships these.  I’m also not saying you can’t/shouldn’t ship these.  I’m merely voicing why I dislike them, because I usually keep it all to myself and just feel like screaming into the void today.  So all of this is just my opinion, and you don’t have to take it seriously, okay? C:  Also, I don’t want to have to type “to me” after every opinion, so just take it as implied.

Now then, let’s begin.

Lonliss/Lon’qu-Lissa

Easily my biggest dislike on the list.  I will never, ever, ever understand why this is Owain’s most popular parentage.  Their supports weren’t all that great, and they are just so different from each other in ways that I think they would just clash.  I’ve seen people who ship it say, “He would be so supportive of Owain’s banter!  He would encourage his playfulness!”  And all I can think is, “Are we thinking of the same Lon’qu?  The one who’s stoic, doesn’t talk much, is very serious and grumpy?  That Lon’qu?”  He’s the token tsundere, sure, but I really don’t see him accepting Owain; I actually see the opposite.  I feel like Lissa and Owain’s upbeat personalities would grate on his nerves, to the point he’d find them both unbearably embarrassing.  Lissa and Lon’qu also just have MUCH BETTER ships/supports with other characters, and tbh, they both deserve better.  Lissa and Owain deserve someone who gels with their sunshine energy, and Lon’qu deserves a more reserved partner.  Of all Owain’s dad ships, Lonliss is the only one I truly cannot, “see,” and no explanation has made me able to, “see,” it as they both are in canon, and probably never will, tbh.  Every other Lissa ship, I can find some sort of merit, even if I don’t ship it, but when I look at Lonliss, there is just none.  No chemistry, no commonality, no anything that makes them a good couple.  Not in canon, anyway.  I’ve heard a ton of headcanons for it (I’m an Owain stan and this is quite literally his most popular dad, it’s very common), and fanon is fine and dandy, but when it bends canon too much, it just doesn’t sit well with me, and Lon’qu being any sort of okay with Lissa and Owain just bends canon too much, to me.  They’re too hyper, he’s too reserved.  As a final thought, I’m admittedly not a fan of any ship that takes Lissa and Owain away from Ylisstol, and Lon’qu (along with Donnel) does.  Their ending states they live in Ferox, and I just don’t like that.  I like Owain growing up alongside Lucina.  Also, Cynthia and probably Morgan would be in Ylisstol, and Owain canon has the Justice Cabal with them in his youth, so that’s kind of contradictory if he’s born and raised in Ferox.  (I also personally headcanon both Lissa and Owain hating the cold, tbh.  Odin has a line about hating the cold in Anna’s DLC in Fates, and I think Lissa mentions hating snow at some point, too, though I could be wrong.)

Owainigo/Laslodin/Owain-Brady

Grouping these together because I’m equally meh on both.  I can definitely see them, but I don’t like them.  Owain and Inigo do become bros, but I kind of feel like they would still squabble like petty children like their Awakening supports.  It’s more in a brotherly way, though; they start off teasing each other and end up in a slap-hands fight.  I like them as a friendship, just not a romantic ship.

Owain/Brady I have more trouble seeing because their only commonality is their mothers, and their supports make them seem like casual friends at best.  I feel like their mothers is a big part of why they’re shipped, tbh, which is just kind of :T for me.  I can see them if I squint, but it’s not a ship I care for.

The saddest thing is, look up anything spicy for Owain, you’re going to find one of these two in it.  Either these two or...

Odiniles/Leodin/Leotrio Threesome

Oh boy, here we go, SakuMo disliking another popular pairing(s).  Odin and Niles canonically bicker.  Like, they are nasty to each other.  Odin says as much in their A rank.  He says they should try to get along more, but I’m not really sure how well that would turn out.  To be honest, the only thing they really have in common is their loyalty to Leo.  Lacking that, they’re two wildly different people.  I’m not saying that different people can’t work as a couple--it happens all the time--but if you lack at least some common ground, it makes it really hard for a relationship to work.  Devotion to your master isn’t really much common ground.  Given their canon history, dramatically different personalities, and lack of common interests, I just don’t see them being compatible.  Every Odiniles fic I’ve ever read had Niles uncharacteristically understanding of Odin, to the point it didn’t even feel like Niles at all/he was very OOC.  One again, fanon is fine--you do you!--but bending canon too much and/or in ways that don’t make sense to the character is just not my scene.

Leodin is one that I can kind of see, definitely more than Odiniles, which in no way works in my head, but I’m just not a fan of it, generally.  My dislike isn’t as strong as with Odiniles, but it’s still there.  And I’ll just say that I am not into poly, don’t like OT3s, threesomes, etc., so that should sum up my feelings on the Leotrio as an OT3.

Odilise, Lazura, Selbaki, a.k.a. “The Oedipus Complex Ships”

Don’t make the Trio marry their moms, fam.  Odilise is the most egregious one, tbh, because Elise is so much like Lissa and it’s so, so creepy to ship her with Odin.  Never mind that canon Elise is supposed to be like...14-15 (I reject this canon and substitute my own hc of 18, but I digress), and though we don’t know how long the Trio is in Nohr before the start of Fates, we can assume anywhere from six months to a year or two considering they are well-established as retainers, so Odin is probably in his early 20s, at youngest maybe 20-21.  (Granted, using the canon ages makes a lot of ships suspect, especially with the younger characters, but I digress.)  I get that Elise is a good stat mom for Ophelia and gives the “canon” hair, but the ship itself is just problematic on a lot of fronts.  She’s basically his mom, their supports are playful but it def feels brotherly-sisterly (granted most of Elise’s supports do) and throws in the romance literally out of left field in the S rank, and they just look kind of suspect together, fam.  I have unfortunately in my travels across the internet for Owain content seen Odin/Elise porn, and the fact it makes me uncomfortable in a, “this looks really illegal,” way speaks volumes.  And again, yes, I know the same would be true for other ships with Elise, and it’s why there are few I actually like with her.  But Odin/Elise just in particular bothers me because like Lonliss, I see it the most, and it’s made me irrationally bitter toward it.  This one and Lonliss are my two, “hair-trigger rage,” ships.  I see either, I get really annoyed.  I don’t voice this, mind--I keep on scrolling and ignore the content--but it does make me grumpy, lol.  They’re the two I can honestly say I hate instead of just saying I dislike.

Selbaki is a bit lesser, but it basically makes Severa her own grandma, don’t do that. xD  Severa already has a complex with trying to be perfect like her mom, so making her feel the same not only for her husband but also her daughter is just cruel to her.  Give Severa a break, y’all.

Lazura is the least similar, admittedly, but it’s still in the same vein.�� Performer marrying a performer.  Of the three, I can tolerate it the most, but it’s still not great for me.

Corrin/Any sibling, including Azura

Look, I get it.  Corrin is, by technicality, not blood-related to any of them, with the exception of Azura, who is their blood-related cousin.  H O W E V E R, just because they find out that they aren’t blood-related to the Nohr siblings doesn’t mean the familial bonds just go POOF.  The Nohr siblings would definitely not be like, “I guess we can bang Corrin now.”  If this were the case, adopted families would never “truly” bond because they aren’t related by blood.  Corrin growing up in Nohr means that they would most likely always see the Nohr siblings as family, and vice-versa.

Hoshido, on the other hand, is a bit trickier.  While it’s true they aren’t blood-related, I want to say Ryoma is the only one who knows?  Like, I think he’s the only one who brings it up in the S Support?  But lacking that, Corrin and the rest of the Hoshido siblings do think they’re blood-related.  Hidden Truths states that Corrin never learned the truth about their real father, nor that Lilith is their sister.  All 3 routes play out with the assumption that Sumeragi was Corrin’s father, and if it’s stated otherwise, it’s maybe only in the beginning as a throwaway line during the Mikoto section.  You could make a plausible argument that the Trio could tell Corrin the truth, since all 3 of them have heart-rank lines where they reveal their real names and that they’re from another world, but that’s leading into possible canon rather than actual canon (and is also why I hc it).  But for all intents and purposes, Corrin thinks they are blood-siblings with the Hoshido fam, so that would make them less likely to pursue them romantically.  And even if they knew, they still all all each other brother/sister.

Azurrin is the trickiest.  It’s only in Revelation that the connection between Arete, Azura’s mother, and Mikoto, Corrin’s mother, is made, afaicr, so in Birthright and Conquest, Corrin technically wouldn’t know they are cousins.  However, Azura would.  Azura always knew everything, because her mother told her about Valla and taught her the traditional song and such.  She most likely knew Mikoto was her aunt.  Even on the off chance she didn’t know, it would still be an awkward down the line thing when they find out they’re cousins.  I know Japan is more lenient on the whole cousin-marriage thing, but...don’t have Shigure and Kana coming out looking like the Habsburgs, please, I beg you, lol.

My rule of thumb: if two characters refer to each other as, “brother,” or, “sister,” at any point, don’t let them fuck.  xD

Kana/Any Romantic/Sexual Ship

Kana is a child.  Stop it.  Stop it right now.  They are a baby.  I’VE SEEN FICS, I KNOW IT EXISTS, YOU SICK FUCKS.  Even aged up feels a little awkward, but I can be a little bit more lenient on that.  I just never will.  Kana is asexual and aromantic in my eyes, lol.

That’s all I can really think of right now; coffee is wearing off, I need a nap, lol.  Once again, please don’t be offended if I dislike a ship you like!  We are all different!  I just wanted to throw this out there on the off chance I do requests again and someone wants one of these written, because I would respectfully decline.  I don’t mean these to be hateful, just sort of venting into the ether in a mildly-exhausted stupor.

Also, you can try to counter me on some of these, but tbh, a few of them, I am stubbornly never going to change my mind, so we’d just go round and round in a circular argument if you tried.  xD  I like what I like and don’t like what I don’t, lol.  I’m not typically a multi-shipper, either, so you’d probably be hard-pressed to get me to shift at all, lol.  I mean that in the most loving way possible, too.