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infinitelyweary · 29 days ago

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Louis Unreliable Narrator Rant

It rly does piss me off bc some ppl with 100 percent sincerity refer to Louis as “a liar”. I keep scrolling past a fanfic on ao3 that called him “the duke of deception” or some shit

What does Louis ever lie about???

(besides armand/rashid but a. obvs that was an armand decision since armand is The Canonical Liar even though ppl don’t always act like it for some reason, and b. that doesn't concern Louis's veracity in telling the story of his past cuz armand/rashid is in the present)

Anything Louis gets “wrong” about his story are details he’s suppressed due to trauma/misremembered/or interpreted differently from others ("lestat") due to his state of mind. None of these things are lying. Unreliable narrator does not mean LIAR bc thats not how stories work. MEMORY IS A MONSTER is the tagline of his story. MEMORY IS A MONSTER - You FORGET, it doesn't. Not "MEMORY MAKES YOU LIE ABOUT THINGS" or "LYING IS A MONSTER" or "LOUIS LIES A LOT AND LOVES IT BC HE'S A MONSTER"!

~Louis' more prominent discrepancies:~

-Was it raining: He doesn't remember. Not a lie

-Claudia's reaction after Lestat's "death": Louis is demonstrably traumatized by the attempt to kill Lestat and has repressed some of the aftermath of that night due to that trauma. He literally doesn't remember Claudia's objections/choking her. When Daniel points out that she sounds upset with him in her diaries, those memories come flooding back - as we see in little jarring bits of flashback. Those jarring flashbacks are Louis REMEMBERING WHAT HAPPENED. If Louis was purposefully "lying" those flashbacks wouldn't resurface in that way: the show is (very effectively) presenting that information in the same way you would be confronted with a traumatic memory. Louis is visibly rattled by this and has to run and kneel in his traumagarden to process this bc HE LITERALLY HASNT PROCESSED IT BC HES BEEN REPRESSING IT FOR 80 YEARS Not a lie

-Could Claudia dream or not: She wrote in her diary that she couldn't and he believed her. Not a lie

Then the trial flashbacks

(For the sake of argument I’ll assume "Lestat’s" versions of events we see flashbacks of in the trial are more accurate depictions than Louis’ original descriptions bc that is essentially the way they are framed and Louis tells Daniel to use that version in the book)

ALTHOUGH IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE: THESE ARE ALSO A PART OF LOUIS’ DESCRIPTION OF EVENTS!!!! Lestat is not present at the interview, Louis is. Lestat is not turning to the camera and breaking the fourth wall to tell us his version; Louis says that as Lestat spoke he felt transported back to those events and was seeing them differently. That's why we see them in flashback. We cannot have a true flashback from Lestat's perspective in s1-2 bc Lestat is not here to tell his story (and it would break the entire structure of the show). Any flashback we see is Louis' recounting. In the case of the trial, Louis is literally recounting Lestat recounting a version of events that Louis is then recalling and processing with added context (this show is a mindfuck).

So even the more “”TRUE”” version ppl like to use as evidence of Louis’s “”lies”” is also coming from Louis!!!!! Louis is the one correcting his own account!!!

The show is built around Louis telling Daniel/the audience his story. Anything we see of the past storyline (New Orleans-Paris) comes from Louis's mouth or Claudia's diaries (and sometimes Armand). Lestat is not a part of any of this. People who frame Lestat is some truth-teller revealing the "REAL story" behind Louis's "lies" is forgetting that Lestat is not part of the interview. Any ""truth"" Lestat tells is coming from LOUIS.

Some quotes from 207 bc I don't have a disc drive on my macbook to screenshot my blu-ray lol

This is our transition into the first nola flashback

<Armand: Lestat stood on that stage, took all the familiar pieces of Louis's life, defiled them, bent them into a Lestat-shaped effigy.>

(Including this to show that even though Armand is co-narrating this part of the story, Armand was ready to discount everything Lestat said. He frames Lestat as taking 'familiar pieces of Louis's life' aka the events as Louis recalls them, and 'defiling and bending them' aka changing/misrepresenting them to make Lestat look better. Any representation of "Lestat's perspective" being valid/"true" is coming from Louis's mouth)

<Louis: But some...Some of it now...

Daniel: What?

Louis: I remember...being out of my body at the time. I was in Paris, but also in New Orleans. Lestat took me there.>

The flashback is Louis remembering things differently, not Lestat's own memory.

-Claudia's turning: Louis's and "Lestat's" account actually don't differ that much. Lestat has a few extra lines of dialogue and is more emotional, Louis tries to turn Claudia himself and begs more profusely, but the basic events are the same. Louis brings Claudia in as she is dying, begs Lestat to turn her and Lestat does it. Louis was near hysterical in this moment so he didn't recall it with complete accuracy. Not a lie!

<Lestat: But he was in a terrible panic. Guilt had seized reason. Claudia on the ledge of death.>

...

<Louis (at the trial, to Claudia and the audience, looking visibly confused): It's not how it happened.

Louis (in Dubai): It is how it happened. I didn't think it at the time. But...yeah.>

As Louis realizes he misremembered events, he corrects himself. We see him do this several times over the series. We also see him insist he wants to get "every detail right" and "wants to remember". Where are people seeing a lying liar who delights in lies???? The whole purpose of the interview is "truth and reconciliation"?????????

-Coffin room exchange: This is one of the most traumatic events in the series/Louis's life so I think it goes without saying that he wouldn't be able to recall it with complete accuracy BUT ALSO!! We see the domestic abuse in 105 recounted from Claudia's perspective. We go from Louis narrating Claudia's diary entry about realizing she was made to be Louis's sister, to her returning home and the ensuing violence as it was witnessed through her eyes. She can hear snippets of an argument but was not privy to what happened in the coffin room. The only part of this that is from Louis's recollection is when Lestat takes Louis into the sky, and we return to Claudia's perspective after Louis is dropped.

The coffin room exchange was omitted in Louis's original telling because it isn't in Claudia's diary entry. If you think about it in-universe, Louis is reading Claudia's diary to Daniel describing the violence breaking out - then they go into the coffin room, Claudia is slumped on the floor outside the room trying to catch her breath, and then Lestat bursts through the wall with Louis - when Claudia watches Louis taken into the sky, Louis would naturally feel the need to fill the gap of 'what happened' before he plummeted to the ground, bc Claudia is certainly wondering what happened in her diary entry. It wouldn't necessarily make sense for Louis to interject over Claudia's entry (describing her feelings at hearing them through the wall, being convinced the violence was over and attempting to recover and then her fear at seeing violence break out again) to say "hey also me and Lestat exchanged words in the coffin room", there just isn't a natural narrative gap there like there would be for Louis/Lestat vanishing into the sky.

But I think more likely Louis doesn't remember the coffin room exchange BECAUSE we see a flashback of it in 207 and as I've established, these flashbacks are Louis remembering things. They are not a direct line to Lestat's memories, because Lestat is not in the interview to recount his own memories, and even a memory he recounts during the trial is being recalled by Louis in the Dubai present. Outside of Claudia's diaries, we only ever have access to Louis's memories of things (barring 205). There is a clear slant towards Lestat's POV in the coffin room memory, so I think it's safe to assume it's Louis recalling the memory as Lestat presents it during the trial. Part of why I think this is the basic framing, but also there are a couple lines of dialogue from Claudia's POV in 105 that we don't hear in 207 specifically when she is sitting outside the coffin room:

this part we hear in both POVs

<Louis: It's okay. We're done. It's over. Stay where you are, okay?>

this part we only hear in Claudia's POV

<Louis: We had it out*. We just...[coughing] need a moment here. [coughs] Just...[gasps]>

The second dialogue time-wise lines up with a moment in Lestat's 207 POV when Lestat is panting on the ground and sitting up for a few seconds and all we hear is silence before he says "You're gonna leave me." The show could have had Louis's second dialogue here muffled or in the background or something but it omits Louis's words entirely to show that this is Louis's recollection of Lestat's remembered version of events, and is not entirely "accurate" either. Why would Lestat focus on/acknowledge Louis comforting Claudia in this moment, when he is thinking about Louis leaving him? He wasn't thinking about that, and his POV reflects that. I don't think the show forgot these extra lines or something, cuz they have the script and easily could have inserted them in the space where Lestat is silent but they did not. A deliberate choice to show Lestat's account is not the omnipotent "truthful" account, but is just one perspective.

(We also know that the coffin room exchange was included in the trial script to make Louis less sympathetic to the audience, because when Lestat says "I am burdened with my maker's temper" Santiago corrects him back on course by saying "Uh, no. You were teased until you toppled." The coven wanted this exchange in the trial script to frame Lestat's drop as an escalation brought on by Louis aka to victim-blame him and make Lestat look less culpable. So even if this is "truth" it is being presented with bias)

Also it is interesting that we get no reaction shots/commentary from Dubai Louis during this entire part. We see Paris Louis once before the "You're gonna leave me" starts and he's shaking and looking confused as Lestat speaks, but there is no assertion on Louis's part of "this is how it happened" or not the way he did with Claudia's turning. We don't even get a shot of Dubai Louis again until after Lestat goes off script to take accountability for the violence.

It actually looks like Armand was the one narrating this entire part to Daniel (Lestat's account of the violence-the coffin room exchange-the apology) because the next time we cut back to Dubai, when Armand tells Daniel that the projections went off-sync, Daniel is already sitting facing Armand and Louis is sitting silently with his hands in front of his mouth. It looks like Dubai Louis hasn't spoken at all since he told Daniel to go with Lestat's version of Claudia's turning. He doesn't speak again until Daniel asks him what he thought of Lestat's apology.

I'm not totally sure what to make of Louis's silence here...because I don't think Lestat fabricated the coffin room exchange. I think because this comes on the heels of "You should go with Lestat's version" of the other flashback we see, this is another instance of Louis going oh, okay I guess it happened like that, you can put that in the book too. But it is a more significant departure from what we were previously shown than Claudia's turning, so idk why they don't have Louis comment on it at all. Either way, Louis doesn't object to what Lestat is saying, which is at least a passive acknowledgement of the events as he presents them as reflected upon by Louis after the fact so NOT A LIE!

Anyway Louis has basically never lied in his entire life so I'm gonna need ppl to stop calling him a liar :)))) it would also completely undercut the main fucking theme of the first two seasons for Louis to be characterized as a ~~~~liar~~~ vs. a person who is being Monstered by Memories so if you call Louis a liar you are calling Rolin Jones a liar and I'm gonna tattle on you to Sir Jones so he won't let you watch the show anymore <3

*netflix subtitles this as "we had enough" but that doesn't sound like what he's saying to me and the netflix subs match the AMC subs which are notoriously inaccurate so!

#iwtv meta #??? kinda mostly just me yelling #also hate when ppl say stuff like Louis “lied” by never mentioning lestat being nice?? when yes he literally did?#if you think lestat was nice sometimes its bc you saw lestat be nice in the show...the show narrated by louis....#im thinking specifically of lestat comforting louis in 102 and being all cute when he had tuxedos made #like do u get that is louis telling daniel about a time lestat was nice??? how many times do we hear HE HAD A WAY ABOUT HIM #the talamasca does not have a drone camera in the past filming louis in 1911 Everything we see is something louis is telling us!!#i know a lot of ppl have this perception of liar louis from the books but thats bs #bc for one anne rice didnt write that first book planning to retcon it all later so as of book 1 everything louis says is true until it isn #AND FOR TWO.....when you actually read lestat's “corrections” of louis's “lies” none of them are actually louis lying????#lestat says “he lied” and everything he uses as evidence is “louis didn't know the truth”. you cant lie about something you dont know??#its all louis didnt know i was secretly rich cuz i didnt tell him. louis didnt know i only killed bad ppl bc i didnt tell him #the ONLY thing book lestat points to book louis as being misleading (by omission) is that sometimes louis begged him not to leave him #and sometimes they hung out with claudia and danced #ooooo king of lies book louis!! sometimes his abusive ex was nice to him!!! AND HE DIDNT MENTION IT AT ALL #but even those things wouldnt be lies if they applied them to the show bc show louis has described lestat being nice #and louis has described his own love of lestat at great length #its almost like book louis and show louis are operating differently in two different narratives with different goals in mind #bc theyre different characters and you shouldnt conflate them bc then you would see neither of them clearly #ok im done now time to be normal again <3

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