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stepswowdsen · 2 months ago

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【KagePro】 KuroEne AU: Kuroha/Saeru's "Love" 🖤💙

Intro

(CW: Suggestive mentions, mentions of intimacy)

Discussion with Feila about my KuroEne AU dialogue scripts.

Context:

KuroEne AU Route: Mary and Ene team up against Kuroha and sneak into his lab, and Ene confronts Kuroha on everything she wants to know.

Kuroha/Saeru points out how he gave her everything she ever wanted and made all her wishes come true... Ene tells him that even if that is the case, she cannot accept his answer.

A couple snippets (WIPs) that I wrote (under the cut)

Ene: Isn’t your way of “loving,” just smothering people with passions?

Kuroha: Love… Obsession… You may call it whatever you like, but the name doesn’t really matter, does it?

KuroEne AU: Dialogue Scripts (WIPs)

Ene: Isn’t your way of “loving,” just smothering people with passions?

Kuroha: Love… Obsession… You may call it whatever you like, but the name doesn’t really matter, does it?

F: I love this part 😭

Me: YEAH I love this line too

Because I think it goes hand in hand with the way he shows his twisted love (obsession)

Also the word "smothering" has a certain nuance, and in this case it plays up to his whole "overwhelming someone with love/passions" thing

F: It shows his fucked up perspective of love indeed

Love that for his character tho. Because of that, it'd be fun to imagine him in relationships www

Me: To define his feelings as "obsession" feels fitting. Cuz I imagine he originally started this to come up with new ways to entertain himself and prove his theory that humans will do anything for love.

Again, their relationship is infused with love, obsession, attachment, desire, yearning, passion for the both of them. Ene feels a mix of love and hatred and conflicting emotions.

Me: The way that I see it is that from the very start, he doesn't know love because he lacks humanity. So the only thing that's left is devotion.

Saeru's "attachment" isn't really like Douman's attachment. It's like a committance to keep the game going as long as all those strong emotions are being directed towards him.

Me: It's cuz strong emotions like love and hatred and greed, etc., all feed his ego

F: Allat just because Azami's wishes changed 😭

If he mistook love as lust then... what counts as love and not love to him?

Tbf, I feel like he cares more about putting up a fake act to get more of what he wants rather than making a chart about it, but I'm curious. Does he see commitment as love? Perhaps gifts? Bonding?

Me:

The other thing is that KuroEne would have a convo like this once Saeru’s identity and true intentions are revealed:

Ene: Since when did you start pretending to be human?

Kuroha: There's no “Since when” about it. I've been here from the very start.

Which is true. He's existed since before the start of civilization.

F: Tbh, at first we wasn't pretending, he's really obvious with his homicidal plans 🧍 (Idk if him possessing Kenjirou counts?)

It's only until whatever loop the KuroEne AU takes place where he considers playing pretend

Context:

This post is connected with this previous post if you want the full context, but it can be read stand alone too

KuroEne AU: Initial Talks

When I first cycled back into KagePro in April 2024 and reignited my love for Saeru, Ene, and KuroEne, I completely revamped my KuroEne AU ideas.

It does have a bit of basis in the ideas I wrote when I was a kid (which was also based on Saeru getting intimate with Ene), but I completely revamped the AU's concept and wrote completely new dialogue scripts for it.

Cuz obviously, my old scripts didn't live up to my standards. My ideas now are much better than the ones I wrote as a kid LOL.

When I first came up with the concept of my KuroEne AU, I was inspired by MMBN/EXE's concept with the CopyBots, android bodies that digital AIs could transfer into.

Then I searched up scientists' recent advancements in robotics, and found out that robots with artificial human skin existed (in early and experimental stages), so I incorporated that into my AU and made Ene's body have human flesh for the sake of their intimacy.

I didn't initially get reminded of the whole "Kama wanting to tempt Ritsuka (FGO MC) and trying to make them Lapse into depravity"

I was mainly just thinking of Kuroha/Saeru entertaining the possibilities that come from exploring human desires (sensual pleasures), and using his knowledge as an advantage for him (in a different way than just orchestrating their deaths)

Basically, I imagine the first KuroEne AU Route starts because Kuroha/Saeru was getting bored of JUST killing everyone and wanted to come up with new ways to entertain himself.

He comes up with the idea of playing the "Game" with Ene to feed his desires and ego and satisfy his cravings.

Essentially "luring his partner into a trap" (enticing them with sweet temptations), while satisfying his partner's desires.

The setup required for the first Route (all the preparation he'd need to do to create her body) would be enormous the first time around, but would have an incredibly rewarding outcome for him. He gets to sate his curiosity by playing around with human tech.

And in the context of this ship AU, Ene's body would be his greatest creation (cuz he far surpasses human scientists' capabilities) due to his knowledge

A few ~ couple months later, I incorporated the thematic inspirations from FGO, into my KuroEne AU later on. I think the inspirations are clear, but more subtle in the way it plays out in my AU, if you know what I mean...

FGO: Ooku Event

Me: Just gonna bring this up cuz I feel like the above screenshots are relevant to the convo

I enjoyed some parts of the Ooku event, mainly Kasumi, including Kasuga as an NPC, but I'm not a fan of a lot of aspects of it, especially with how they dealt with Kama at the end…

At the end they criticize Kama and their form of giving love and defeat them (without even trying to understand them), which I'm not happy with.

I really disliked Parvati's self-righteousness and way she approached the situation with Kama.

At the end, Parvati just fires an arrow at them, making them go through the same trauma and pain when they (Kama) got incinerated by Shiva??? Which caused their self loathing in the first place???

That aside...

This whole speech about how “If you love something, you must be willing to let it go” is just 😭

HE (SAERU) WOULD LAUGH AT THIS

PLEASEEE like his existence was BORN from desire

He'd be like, "Cutting away from desire... all for the sake of some lofty ideals??? Self righteousness??? Humans never cease to amaze me with the extent of their foolishness."

Oh I think a big one is Kasuga’s "It makes you feel like you matter" and "It can be terribly frightening to put an end to that" cuz Saeru’s biggest vulnerability/fear was being forgotten by Azami and losing his sentience and disappearing.

Like, feeling like your existence is needed and that you still serve a purpose.

But serving someone defines his existence → He serves his own interests by doing so.

Therefore, by both furthering his goals of looping the world to stay immortal and continuing the game, he gets what he wants.

I think this also goes hand in hand for exactly why he's unwilling to give up the game. Most of all, he doesn’t want to disappear. And then, he doesn’t want to give up what he has control over. Like even in intimacy, “loss of control” happens on his own terms, right?

And he’d be open to his partner taking control from him (when he lets them), because it’s fun and interesting to him, and it ultimately doesn’t threaten him. He knows his S/O won’t be able to topple him even if they tried

F: Tbh, at first he wasn't pretending, he's really obvious with his homicidal plans 🧍 (Idk if him possessing Kenjirou counts?) It's only until whatever loop the KuroEne AU takes place where he considers playing pretend

Me: Ok coming back to this

Yeah like he wasn't pretending in the initial Routes. Like he literally tells her his true identity as the Snake of Clearing Eyes at some point (depending on when he decides to reveal himself).

In the Routes where Ene just plays the game with Kuroha and doesn’t meet the MekaDan:

Ene just doesn't know what his plans are. Because she doesn’t meet the MekaDan in this Route. She wouldn't know what that entails.

Only Kano (and Ayano who is deceased in most Routes) knows about Saeru’s existence in the present day plot.

It's only in the Routes where he decides to play pretend with the MekaDan, where he starts playing pretend.

Me: And yeah Kuroha/Saeru’s love is the embodiment of "A love that consumes you."

It's love packaged up all nicely and presented as sweet temptation. A sweet temptation of corruption.

Ooku Event (FGO)

I based that KuroEne line on this line from the Ooku event:

Parvati: That... that isn't real love!

Kama: Fine, call it depravity if you want. The name really isn't important.

FGO's whitewashing is as awful as always.

The concept of "Lapsing into depravity" and tempting someone to indulge in sensual pleasures...

Also I really like the "I just do what I want and let the chips fall where they may" line

I didn't SS it cuz of the pic limit but Kama's whole "Indulge in the pit of depravity with me, filled to the brim with my love, forever..."

Hmmm :) Doesn't it work quite well as inspirations for a certain Clearing Eyes Snake...

Even just thinking about that .dsd/V art by Sidu of him lying in a snake nest.

I think this dialogue is incredibly interesting to think about as inspirations for my AU, like corrupting someone with carnal pleasures (presented as sweet temptations) and satisfying their desires, despite the obvious differences.

Saeru resents the world/mankind for changing the nature of his Master's wish, but claims to love humans (especially their foolishness) while looking down on them.

Kama: I loathe humans more than anything, and you're all so garbage I can't help but laugh, but I'll still love you all and make sure you're all filled up (completely satisfied)

Kama wanting to give all of humanity love is a form of revenge, for them.

F: Tbf, I feel like he cares more about putting up a fake act to get more of what he wants rather than making a chart about it, but i'm curious

Me: Tbh I agree with this too. I feel like he's mainly doing it to get what he wants. And at the same time, doing observations on the side too. He’s sating his curiosity by exploring human tech, for the sake of feeding his desires.

F: If he mistook love as lust then... what counts as love and not love to him?

Me: I don’t even think of it as “being unable to distinguish the difference between them.”

But I do see him reaching a similar conclusion as Kama that sensual pleasures will tempt someone into corruption. For him it's a means to an end.

Also he must be aware that the "love" Azami experienced with her family is a form of love.

But he probably thinks more "favourably" of the forms of love that are directed towards him and benefit him.

I still think he thinks of humans (and their feelings) as both "lovely and foolish"

Since he says it himself.

And committment is basically apart of devotion, right? Cuz devotion is a form of committment through love/loyalty.

(CW: Suggestive mentions, mentions of intimacy)

Me: Oh one thing I have to say before I forget. I was thinking about it in the morning. I'd say the other thing is that for him, exploring and indulging carnal pleasures through intimacy is a way for him to explore his dark desires (the deep lust and sin), and the control he craves.

“The desire for control in the sense of intimacy.”

Cuz again, with his advantage in knowledge, along with their circumstances, he's ultimately the one in control of his dynamic with his partner.

Because he intentionally put "limiters/restrictions" on himself by deciding to play nice before the fated Death day of August 15th. He works to further his own goals (satisfying his own desires) while satisfying his partner's desires. Again, he’s “softened” his tendencies, for the remainder of the game at least… as long as the game lasts.

F: Committment is quite different from devotion, but this is Saeru we're talking about, he'd put committment in the devotion category 😭

F: Oh yeah, he plays the dom role in the r/s, right? That might explain why

Me: In terms of bedroom intimacy yes

I personally see it as, Kuroha/Saeru clearly has a desire for domination and control. But he's also interested in exploring new outcomes and possibilities so he lets Ene take control too.

He's really adjustable to his S/O's preferences and very versatile in bedroom intimacy. But considering he thrives on the power dynamic and his control...

Dominant and likes being in control, but likes switching and being vers too

And Kuroha/Saeru lets Ene take charge while knowing that he can turn the tables at any time he wants. Even when he relinquishes control, it still plays up to his ego. Because he's never actually threatened. It doesn't change their power dynamic, that he's ultimately the one in control.

Summary:

Kuroha: Likes being in control but doesn't mind relinquishing control, cuz it still plays up to his ego since he ultimately has power over the other party, and is able to turn the tables and gain back control at any moment

F: So he's only in control when it comes to intimacy? When it's outside of intimacy he's not in control anymore?

Me: Not exactly. Even in context, he’s still the cause of the Tragedy, and the time loop instigator. He’s the one that holds power in his dynamic with his S/O, and in general, over the MekaDan too.

Me: Ig what I'd also have to add to this is that he adheres to the rules that he placed on himself by agreeing to play nice with his partner and serve their desires (while mainly serving his own interests).

He sees it as a Win-Win situation cuz both he and his partner get what they want in the end, right?

In the context of a ship AU, Saeru wants to “corrupt” his S/O and taint their soul by leaving his marks on them across timelines.

Kuroha/Saeru bonds with Ene, seduces his partner with carnal pleasures, and eventually becomes intimate with her. He's tempting/seducing someone to get into their heart.

Me: I see it more like it's playing up to the desires he craves.

“Takes control to get what he wants, appeals to his partner’s whims/desires”

Me: I should say though, "Control in intimacy” is an act or power dynamic that's agreed upon and consensual. It has certain rules that must be adhered to.

F: Ene only got a short feeling of warmth and reminiscence (Idk what other word to use) after internally grieving for these 2 years so... Idk if it's a win for her 🧍

Me: I do consider it a “win” technically, but Saeru’s S/O loses everything they care about at the end. Also depends on the Route when he comes to meet her, either 1 - 2 years before the start of the present plot. So depending on that, he spends time with them for 1 - 2 years.

I'm ace af too but I just decided to study some things for my fave ships' intimacy. Half this server is aro/ace LOL. They're like case studies for me to figure out how to write certain things

Ig if I had to simplify it then it'd be "The thrill of dominating or being dominated" when you and your partner both consent, and agree to adhere to the “rules” in the game you play.

Me: Even Kuroha/Saeru acknowledges he gave her everything she wanted (except for her biggest wish... to get to move onto the future with everyone)

Though, as I said before, most ships focus on the growth of both parties. Kuroha/Saeru as a character encourages regression (in general) and in his S/O.

Cuz he encourages his partner to let go of their inhibitions when it comes to exploring their desires... Essentially encouraging them to remove limiters and go off the rails (run wild) when indulging in the "game" with him.

Like obviously their moral limiters (and sense of urgency once his true intentions are revealed), still kick in, but I mean this irt falling for the sweet temptations of their snake bf.

I'll quote the relevant parts:

Also I was just thinking what's interesting about KuroEne is that KuroEne is a ship oriented in the ever looping present.

Kuroha/Saeru as a character encourages regression (as opposed to growth) and the eternal looping of their game.

As a secondary goal to his immortality, he wants the game to continue endlessly through the eternal cycle of destruction and rebirth (revival and renewal through destruction)

In the context of a ship AU, Saeru wants to “corrupt” his S/O and taint their soul by leaving his marks on them across timelines.

Mans is literally the "I'll make you worse :)" meme.

Me: Though, I think Saeru's aware of the fact that he's the perfect counter to Ene. Unlike Konoha, he can actually manage to meet Ene's competitiveness and level of intensity. Along with him being really good at observing people and reading peoples' feelings

(To an extent. I mean, he's the embodiment of knowledge but he's clearly flawed and not infallible, nor does he know everything, he still doesn't understand Azami's love for her family.)

Someone as straightforward as Ene would be easy for him to read.

That's also what makes me prefer KuroEne over KonoEne, like I favour ships that are intense and dangerous, with compelling conflict and tension. It's just more interesting and thrilling writing-wise

And I always go for ships with my top faves and what's more interesting to me.

KonoEne, the ship that's the alternate version of HaruTaka, "fits more" irt KagePro's thematics tho

Scan: @/ayara-resara

Colour Edit: Me

F: Yeah the plot will always move back to the very beginning, even if Ene is curious and wanted to explore her desires, the only thing she'd want is to move onto the future (maybe she still has hopes to reunite with Haruka?)

But all Kuroha does is fuck, kill, repeat 😭

Me: Yeah like her biggest wish is to have a happy peaceful life with everyone (and probably to reunite with Haruka again)

F: Tbh HaruTaka is the only ship that can be developed further, KonoEne is just stuck being same thing over and over again, but still adorable

Me: I do agree that KonoEne as a ship has no place to go or properly develop because of Saeru's existence. At the end of the day, Snake of Clearing Eyes (Saeru) possesses Konoha's body and kills everyone, forcing Mary to make the timeline reset.

"Do it all over again from the very beginning," as he says.

So it's a "dead end" ship most of the time (though the same goes for KuroEne irt being a dead end, but their characters arguably work better together in some ways imo)

Like I had ideas for a KuroEne AU Final Route with Kuroha/Saeru eventually becoming a guardian figure to Mary's family, but again, it's not as interesting to me as exploring all their possibilities in their timeline loops.

I love HaruTaka sm, it's literally my 2nd fave KagePro ship, but it's also too soft as a ship for me to be fully invested in, so my choice is obvious.

Me: Pretty telling that I end up thinking more about KuroEne (main), and AyaTaka and MaryEne (secondary), just because these ships have more conflict and tension and thus are just more interesting writing wise

I also have a tendency to gravitate towards rare pairs and niche ships in general.

KonoEne is cute but I can't even think of intimacy with them cuz the ship is so unsuited for it imo cuz of how dense Konoha is

M: :((

Me: At the same time, though...

KonoEne hardly have time to interact and meet in the main plot BECAUSE we basically only see them interact on Death day!!! That's not enough time to see how their actual dynamic works with each other

Yeah Jin is definitely not immune to criticism from his writing/creative decisions. He's a brilliant composer tho.

It's true that HaruTaka works better as a ship in comparison to KonoEne because Haruka is the perfect counter to Takane, and meet her competitiveness and level of intensity. He reacts to her antics with genuine and earnest love because he's smitten by her as his classmate/friend, that's why their dynamic works better

And like the fact that Ayano and Mary are the most plot important femmes but we didn't get LNs focusing on them... It's WILD

F: For real, it's quite unfair

And in the end Saeru barely gets screentime because all he does is kill, FUCK THIS SHIT 😭😭😭

Me: And yeah. I still think that Saeru has interaction potential (Azami and Mary, and others aside from those two), so it's disappointing to only see him interact with others to kill them.

I get why, but grrr...

Like ofc Ene would prefer Konoha because he's closer to Haruka (and has a softer and gentler personality), but Kuroha/Saeru can actually read her really well and meet her needs.

Like how I said, Kuroha/Saeru actually challenges Ene as a character and can actually manage to meet her competitiveness and level of intensity (unlike Konoha)

She can no longer hide behind her false bravado and act of indifference with Saeru cuz it literally wouldn't work on him. He wouldn't be fooled and would be able to perceive her true feelings well

F: Does he see commitment as love? Perhaps gifts? Bonding?

Me: Oh I forgot to reply to this! Imo he would catch onto his S/O's love languages and fave hobbies and things, things they'd appreciate. Like he'd buy things for Ene as gifts (plushies, video games, new clothes, etc.)

Again, he is learning how to "love" his S/O better each time, so he makes note of that... Of all the human sentiments and gestures that will be useful to him.

Augh his whole deal is… “Beast that lacks humanity and doesn’t know love, only knows what twisted love (obsession) is… Because the only thing that’s left without love, is devotion…”

I LOVE YOU SAERU HEBI

Ai vs. Koi

I already talked about this a lot before, but I can ramble a bit about my inspirations

When I brought up the concept of "Ai vs. Koi" in my own KuroEne AU ship writing, this was also something inspired by Fate.

It was inspired by Kiara (FGO), who never knew or experienced the pure/genuine form of love, who grew up being put on a pedestal as a saviour/messiah figure.

Though in Kiara's case, she knew what Ai was, but didn't understand Koi. It was Ai vs. Koi in the sense of Ai (love and the general act of loving) vs. Koi (romantic love/feelings)

And the eventual realization she came to at the very end when she was told what Koi is (after her defeat).

For my KuroEne ship AU, this plays out differently.

The whole Ai/Koi thing (Selfless Love vs. Selfish Love)

If Azami is the embodiment of Ai (Selfless love) - love for someone else's sake/her family's sake

Sacrificing her own happiness for her family's sake.

Then Saeru is the embodiment of Koi (Selfish Love) - loving for his own sake

Loving someone in a twisted, selfish, self-serving way.

Even when he caters to his partner's pleasures, it still ultimately caters to his pleasures the most.

Also, I love how the final chapter title from the Tunguska event (FGO) from FGO, Koyanskaya's main story chapter focus, is, "Love is Karma, and Karma is..."

Like guhhhh it's so Saeru core

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