#on the whole it seems reasonable to me a) to contribute to an aspect that interests you | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

forasecondtherewedwon · 3 months ago

Text

get ya thinkin' (that you need me)

Fandom: Twisters Rating: T Word Count: 6028

Summary: Kate, Javi, Tyler, Lily, Dexter, Dani, and Boone—they're all one crew now, and they need funding. Trying to look more responsible on a grant application, they come up with an unconventional solution: two of them should get married. But which two? Javi and Tyler prompt Kate to consider what her friendships could become.

“I know it was me,” Tyler prefaces. “I know I’m the one who said our crew didn’t need PhDs, but…”

“But it might be nice to have one right about now?” Lily guesses.

There’s a collective sigh as they all stare at the screen together. Javi, controlling the touchpad, scrolls down and back up again, like the words might have changed, like this grant application isn’t punishingly particular and hopelessly intimidating.

“If we type it up in the wrong font it gets rejected?” Lily checks, jabbing a finger at the line she picks out of the blur.

Boone shifts and turns to Kate. “You’re doing your PhD, right? How soon you gonna be done?”

Kate gives him a look that asks if he’s shitting her. “Not by next Monday, which is when this application’s due.”

“Fuck,” Javi groans, rubbing his forehead.

“Well, hey, you gotta be good at this kinda thing, Storm Par,” Tyler reasons. “Your old crew had money comin’ out its eyeballs.”

“That was from investors. Highly unethical investors,” he clarifies, with a glance at Kate, who frowns sympathetically. “Private money. We never held a government grant.”

“We need more time,” Kate declares, like just saying that could possibly extend the deadline.

She shoves herself up and away from the motel bed they’re all gathered on the end of. If any of them were responsible adults, they’d be able to admit that they don’t need the deadline to be later, they need to have started working on this sooner. A lot sooner. The trouble is, they’re the furthest thing possible from responsible—at least, not in any way a government grant application would define the term (and, Jesus, does this application ever love defining terms—Definition of Terms is a whole section of the instructions, right at the top). They’re storm-chasers, risk-takers, and no, no one has yet seen fit to bestow upon them large amounts of money to fund their research, so it’s tough to prove they’re a safe bet, a good call, a fast horse.

“The only aspect we may be able to exploit,” Dexter pipes up, “is format.”

“It’s all online, I thought,” Dani says, seated beside him.

“Most of it is, but… could you scroll back up?” he requests of Javi. “Right… there. In the research proposal section, there’s an option for delivery method.”

“Thirty minutes or it’s free?” Boone quips.

Lily rolls her eyes at him.

“No,” Kate says, pacing. “No, it means we might have a better chance if we submit an audio recording of us explaining our research, maybe Javi talking through the data to make the significance really clear. Or we make a slideshow, or film a video.” She pauses to smile. “You guys would be great at that. The point is—”

“The point is,” Tyler picks up, meeting her eyes, “we could convince them on our own terms. No PhD necessary.”

“Though we’d still have to seem stable,” Kate stresses. Everyone nods back at her. “Professional.”

“Who says we’re not professional?” Javi demands.

“Do I need to bring up the pants thing?”

“…No.”

“Everybody in this room knows their shit,” Tyler says.

“Right,” Dani says slowly, “but you can’t say we aren’t… slightly erratic. Not that it’s a bad thing, for what we do. But Kate did say ‘stable.’”

“To be clear,” Kate says, “I’m not telling anybody to quit driving like a total jackass, or making up catchphrases that promote reckless behaviour—”

“Or shooting fireworks into a tornado,” Javi contributes.

“These non-criticisms feel oddly specific,” Tyler says tightly.

“Our roster’s not even stable,” Lily points out. She folds her legs on top of the bland coverlet and the mattress’s springs shriek. “Kate’s only been part of the crew a couple days longer than Javi, and that hasn’t been very long.”

“That is a valid point,” Dexter says.

Kate sighs. “It is. So, I’m asking honestly,” she finishes. “What can we do, by next Monday, to convince some government committee”—she slaps the back of one hand into the palm of the other as she lists criteria—“we are sane, we are stable, we are going to go the distance with this research?”

Into the silence that follows, Javi says, “We could get married.”

There’s another second of absolute quiet before Tyler asks, “Was that an open proposal, or is there a happy couple you had in mind?”

What Kate thinks they’ve probably all been enjoying about the new (or just newly expanded) crew is the lack of awkwardness. Javi’s Storm Par crew was rife with it. While having zero members with a PhD is sometimes a challenge, Kate saw how too many PhDs could be even worse; there was a hierarchy amongst those guys, and if anyone dared offer a suggestion, the rest of them would throw sidelong glances at one another. Kate figured a few of them could straight-up go to hell (particularly Scott), but she still doesn’t know how Javi stood it.

But even that awkwardness was clearly power-based. Javi’s suggestion is different, more personal, and definitely more awkward.

The vibe in the motel room is immediately screwed up. Some people look like they want to laugh, others are frowning in contemplation, and Javi’s just blushing, not looking anyone in the eye. Still, because he’s Javi, he doesn’t chicken out. He tries to make his case.

“You guys heard of Jo Harding?”

“Fuck yeah, I’ve heard of Jo Harding,” Dani announces. “Who in the tornado game hasn’t?”

“Well, she’s an Oklahoma girl, so I was just checking.” Javi shrugs. “Her husband was her partner when she chased.”

“Yeah, but she had a whole crew,” Boone says.

“Yeah, but she also had a husband.”

“Stop mansplaining Jo Harding,” Lily complains, flinging herself backwards on the bed.

“It’s not like having a husband made her a good scientist, or a good storm-chaser,” Dani says.

“I’m not saying that!” Javi protests.

“Yeah, dude, Jo’s husband isn’t the most interesting thing about her,” Boone adds.

“I can’t believe we’ve now spent more time talking about Jo Harding’s husband than Jo Harding,” Lily groans.

“They won the grant!” Javi bursts out. “They won the fucking grant!”

Tyler, who’s mostly just been observing the crew with amusement up to this point, looks at Javi and cocks an eyebrow. “This grant?”

“Yes! This grant! I’m just trying to say they’re a powerful team. Formidable. I’ve read, like, every article ever done on them—”

“Woah, woah, woah. You have? That’s intense.”

Kate glances at Tyler and explains, “He had a crush.”

“Sounds more like an obsession.”

“I admired their work,” Javi says defensively.

“Oh, is that what you were admiring in that one article where you cut across the text and just kept the photo of Jo?” Kate checks, smirking.

“What have I done to you, Kate? Goddamn.”

“Finish your point,” she prompts.

Javi sighs and braces his hands behind him, leaning back carefully so the laptop doesn’t slide from his lap.

“They always talk about how they make each other better. Not that the other person is why they’re good at their job in the first place,” he clarifies, shooting glances at Lily, Boone, and Dani, “but that they look out for each other, stop each other from making stupid decisions, keep each other safe. And yeah, a crew can do that too. A good crew. But a married couple just sells devotion and, and conviction in a different way. All I’m saying is it’s something to try.”

“It’s not an unreasonable proposition,” Dexter allows when it’s clear that Javi’s done. Dexter’s calm, steady voice giving the idea his tentative approval strengthens its merit for everyone in the room. Kate can see it. She exhales.

“Alright,” she says. “Well, we don’t have a lot of time to mull this over before the deadline, but let’s give Javi’s suggestion some thought. And any other ideas you guys come up with. Maybe reconvene on this tomorrow?”

There are nods and murmurs of approval.

The room they’re in is Lily and Dani’s, so the crewmembers not hanging around to chill file out onto the sidewalk that lines the motel. Kate’s just thinking about going back to her own room—well, hers and Javi’s, with matching twin beds in baby-blue coverlets that make her think of the Shining twins—and getting some sleep. They chased yesterday, then stayed up late last night going over the data. They’ve all been eating at weird hours, and now with the stress of the grant application… Kate runs a hand over her face. She can hear Javi and Tyler talking behind her, but she doesn’t think anything of it until she’s unlocked the motel room door and Tyler follows her and Javi inside.

“We need to talk,” Tyler states the second the door’s closed.

“‘We could get married,’” Kate quotes. (Sarcastically, but yeah, she’s beat.) “‘We need to talk.’ You’re both so dramatic today.”

“That’s what we need to talk about,” Tyler says, ignoring her sarcasm.

“What?”

“Getting married.”

Kate gives him a slow blink.

“We just did,” she says. “That’s what that conversation was.” She points in the direction of the other motel room.

“But we need to decide,” Javi says.

“We will. Everyone needs some time to think.”

“No, they don’t,” Tyler says.

“Uh, yes, they do. If they’d either thought it was the best solution or a total flop, they would’ve said right after Javi explained.”

“I know our crew better than you do, Sapulpa—just a fact. Trust me, they had an opinion.”

“Then how come nobody said anything?” Kate asks skeptically.

“Because it isn’t about them,” Javi says.

“What? Of course it is! The grant is for the team. We can put it towards a new drone for Lily and get Boone some more—”

“Not the grant. The marriage.”

“The marriage would be for the grant.” Kate has a bad feeling that she’s started talking to Javi like he’s an idiot, but she’s seriously just not getting it. Why isn’t he just saying what he means? She’s tired.

Tyler laughs. He laughs! She stares at him.

“Come on,” he says, “you have to know why they all clammed up.”

Kate looks to Javi. Javi, the guy she basically ghosted until he showed up at her workplace to drag her back here. Javi, who’s still her best friend, no matter what. Javi, who she really needs to make sense right now.

“They didn’t ask any questions,” Javi says gently.

“Most importantly,” Tyler cuts in, “nobody asked who this hypothetical marriage would be between. You catch that?”

“That’s just because we need to decide whether or not we’re doing it first,” Kate says, crossing her arms.

“You really think that’s why? And not that it’s because of the way Storm Par here looks at you, or the fact that he’s the one who suggested getting hitched? It’s not just a grant application, Kate. There are other stakes here.”

Kate flushes lightly, and when she chances a look at Javi, he is too. Tyler’s not exactly wrong, but he isn’t quite right either; she and Javi go back a long way. They care about one another—which is natural, especially after what they survived. Kate would also be lying if she tried to tell Tyler she hasn’t noticed those looks of Javi’s, that she’s blind to the way his steady brown eyes linger on her when she speaks, find her when she’s still, working out the math for their next planned chase. She doesn’t hate it, that way he has of looking at her.

Javi temporarily saves her from responding. Once he’s made his point, she’s not entirely grateful.

"Me?" he says to Tyler. “Those guys aren’t keeping their opinions to themselves because of some obvious claim I was staking on Kate. I’m subtle.”

The remark is so pointed that it’s no wonder Tyler reacts to it, even as Kate has a private, silent panic.

“I never staked a claim on Kate,” Tyler assures him.

“Sure you did,” Javi argues. “You stayed at her house. You met her mom. You basically poached her from Storm Par.”

“I didn’t need to poach her. She came willingly. And I bet you’ve stayed at her house and met her mom! You’ve known each other, what? Forever? That about right?”

“Well, what about you two?” Kate interrupts, gesturing between the men. “Old rivals, new allies. Some unresolved tension from chasing the same storms, maybe? How do you know the crew weren’t picturing you at the altar?”

While this seems to genuinely bewilder Javi, Tyler hitches his jeans and shrugs. “Wouldn’t be my first rodeo.”

“I just don’t think anybody’s thinking anything.”

“They might not all be thinking the same thing,” Tyler allows her, “but they’re all thinkin’ something. The two people getting married to give us a shot at this grant are standing in this room right now. I guarantee it.”

The three of them eye each other.

“If there’s going to be a marriage,” Javi says.

“Oh, there is,” Tyler says. “You made too good a case for it. Whole lotta money on the line. Seems too logical not to try.”

“Nothing about this is logical,” Kate decides, and goes to brush her teeth in the tiny bathroom.

When she comes back out, Tyler’s gone. She cedes the bathroom to Javi so he can get ready for bed too. They exchange a look as he passes her, but she waves him on, pats his shoulder as he passes. They can talk when he’s ready. Well, maybe not ready, but ready for bed. She goes to her squeaky twin and sits down to wait.

“It’s insane,” Kate says a little later.

They’re lying down, facing each other across the divide between their narrow beds. There’s an old movie playing on the perhaps equally old TV that sits against the opposite wall; they’ve turned the sound way down. The screen’s glow provides the only light. Kate thumps her pillow for emphasis rather than elaborating. She just doesn’t have anything smart left to say on this topic.

“It’s also not,” Javi counters. He’s run out of more sophisticated arguments too.

“So, two of us are really going to get married?”

“Hey, we do crazier shit literally every day. And it’s not, like, real. Whether or not it helps us get the grant, the marriage can be annulled, or they can get divorced, or whatever. It doesn’t have to be a big deal.”

Kate laughs, and then Javi laughs too. She likes watching him laugh; his smile hangs on for such a long time after he stops. It’s sweet.

“Who do you think it should be?” she wonders.

“I mean, I would do it.”

“Yeah?”

“Yeah. I suggested it, right? Gotta put my… I don’t know, my vows where my mouth is.”

“So rational,” Kate notes, sort of joking, though she does also admire Javi’s pragmatism. He’s thinking of the crew, how to look out for them, both by securing this grant and by sparing them the need to enter into this plan which is—regardless of what he says—a little insane. When she thinks of it that way… “I guess I would too.”

“You would get married?”

“Why not? Since it has to be somebody. You’re my best friend, anyway,” she says, sending him a soft smile. “It wouldn’t be like marrying a stranger. Besides, nothing would really change.”

“You don’t think so?” Javi asks earnestly. Which is not the easiest question to answer. But Javi has more to say before he’ll let her try. “You know… I mean, I told you…”

“That you would’ve done anything for me, back then,” Kate fills in. She sees Javi nod against his pillow. She exhales slowly. “Yeah. I didn’t really pick up on that. I just thought we were friends.”

“We were friends. We are. I just felt a little more for you than that. Not that I ever would’ve done anything. You and Jeb were great together. I wouldn’t have been dumb enough to try to come between you, and I didn’t want to. I just sort of quietly…” Javi grins like he can’t help it. “…had this thing for you.”

Kate returns his grin, amused because it’s easier to feel amused than to feel sad. She wants to be able to talk about Jeb, hasn’t let herself in so long, putting herself more than a thousand miles away from anyone else who knew him. Now, it feels so good to hear Jeb’s name in the mouth of somebody who cared about him too. With Javi, Jeb will never be forgotten. Kate will never lose the opportunity to talk about Jeb, to reminisce. Javi will be as respectful now as he apparently was then, keeping his own wants reined in so Jeb and Kate could be happy with each other. Who should she—should either of them—allow to make her happy now? With his caring, trusting eyes trained on her as the light from the TV flashes and shifts, Javi seems like a pretty good choice.

“It’d be more than practical for you,” she acknowledges.

“It would.” Javi sighs. “I thought you’d better have all the facts.”

“I appreciate that.”

“And now you can admit it,” he prompts.

“What?”

“That you got the hots for me too.”

They share another laugh. But Kate can only laugh so long as a reaction to his teasing tone, because, yeah, she kind of has started to think of him in that way since being back here in Oklahoma. She’s been trying to wait it out a little. Part of that’s fear; Jeb was her last serious attachment. She hasn’t been able to love somebody like that again (she hasn’t even really tried to date), too scared that something awful will happen. With Javi, it’s a real possibility that he could meet Jeb’s exact same fate, and there’s no place in the whole world Kate could move to that could get her far enough away from here if that happened.

The other reason she’s waited is that coming back, coming home, has provoked a swirling mess of feelings in her—an emotional tornado, if she’s honest, and it has taken honesty to let herself be hit by the force of those feelings instead of retreating to the mental bunker where she’s spent the last five years. Those winds are still calming. In the meantime, Kate hasn’t wanted to confuse the feeling of being home with a desire to be more than friends with Javi.

“Not then,” he says kindly, when she doesn’t reply right away. “I know you didn’t then.”

“Coming back,” Kate starts, her gaze drifting, “hasn’t been totally what I thought it would be. I’d be lying if I said you weren’t part of that. You’re the same as you were then, but different too. I’d never seen you lead a team before.”

“You surprised those guys listened to me?”

“No, I guess I just wasn’t expecting the way you made room for me. I saw that you were still on my side…

“I always have been.”

“I know,” she promises, meeting his eye. “And you trusted me again, immediately—”

“No reason not to,” Javi says easily.

“There were reasons not to,” she insists. Does she need to remind him of their first chase after she arrived? How she panicked? How she was the reason they didn’t get the third scanner set up and so couldn’t collect data that day? “But you vouched for me. Last time, with our team, you trusted me because I was the head of the project. It felt like you trusted me just as fully this time, even though it meant committing all those other people and all your resources.”

She’s surprised, while she’s being this sincere, that Javi laughs at her.

“I never trusted you just because you were the head of the project,” he explains. “I trusted you because you were you. You’re still you. You’re so you that Tyler’s ready to marry you too, and you’ve known each other less than a month.”

Kate makes a dismissive sound.

“You know there’s something between you,” Javi says. “That man is crazy about you.”

“I think he might just be crazy. It’s well-documented on the internet.”

“He’s always close to you.”

“So are you.”

“Exactly,” Javi agrees. “So I can speak to his motives.”

“We survived an EF4 together. He sheltered me with his body in the bottom of a swimming pool. Maybe we just shared an intense, near-death experience.”

“Is that all?”

Kate deflates.

“No. He is pretty hot.”

“That’s what I thought,” Javi says triumphantly.

There’s more to it than that, but Javi can obviously tell that already, so it doesn’t seem worth saying. Kate folds her pillow in half so she can sit up a little higher.

“Well, can we talk about the look on your face?”

“When?”

“‘Wouldn’t be my first rodeo,’” Kate quotes, badly mimicking Tyler’s voice.

“As if he meant anything by that.”

“How do you know?”

“He’s Tyler Owens! He just says shit for dramatic effect!”

Kate crosses her arms and stares at her friend with amusement.

“Probably!” Javi adds weakly.

“I could see you two married. Fake-married.”

“He is good at what he does,” Javi concedes, “when he’s not being a total jackass.”

“Is that all?” she teases.

She hears Javi’s deep sigh.

“I’ve watched a few of his YouTube videos,” Javi confesses. “He takes off his shirt sometimes.”

Kate sinks back down into bed after that. At some point, half-asleep, she hears Javi get up to use the bathroom. He switches off the TV on his way past, and the light quits flickering across Kate’s closed eyelids.

—

They aren’t chasing the next day, so they decide to stay in town for breakfast at the little diner. Because they’re together so much—hunched over the same screens, crammed into the same vehicles, bunked in the same motel rooms—it isn’t unusual for them to not eat together. Four of them practically feels like a family reunion, but Kate’s glad of the company. She, Javi, Tyler, and Boone grab a booth and flap open their cracked plastic menus.

Javi, seated opposite her and next to Boone, keeps looking at her. Kate can feel it without returning his gaze. When she relents and looks back at him while they’re eating, she sees (as she suspected she would) that he isn’t making eyes at her over his pancakes—he’s watching her with Tyler. She makes a face at Javi. There’s nothing to see! Tyler might be sitting beside her, but he’s intent on dipping his bacon into the yolks of his eggs, laughing across the table at something Boone’s telling him he captured in recent footage of the crew goofing around. Tyler and Kate aren’t looking at one another. They aren’t even touching. Yeah, maybe she can feel the heat of him because their thighs are almost close enough to touch on the seat, but it doesn’t mean any more today that it did yesterday. Javi’s just trying to make it weird, because of their conversation last night.

I could make it weird too, she threatens with her eyes. That makes Javi smile and go back to his pancakes.

After they’ve finished though, when Boone and Javi get into a discussion that quickly becomes so focused that it shuts out the other side of the table, Tyler nudges Kate’s arm with his elbow and jerks his head towards the door.

Outside, Kate takes a breath that doesn’t feel deep enough. It’s dry today. A field borders one side of the diner parking lot, and the wheat rustles crisply. Taking it all in is second nature, requires no thought at all. There’s the windspeed she can guess at when a breeze strokes across her arm; there’s wind direction, determined when a slightly stronger gush sweeps a strand of hair loose from her ponytail; she judges the atmospheric pressure with her sinuses; and she gathers all of this without even looking at the sky. When she does, it’s cloudless, flat as a blue tablecloth.

She looks at Tyler. He’s studying her.

“Just trying to pick up some tips,” he says, before she can say anything.

“And? What’ve you learned?”

Tyler just smiles mysteriously.

“You guys talk last night?”

“Me and Javi?”

“Yeah.”

“Sure,” Kate says. She knows it’s a vague answer, but Tyler will be bold enough to ask for the information he really wants. She’d bet on it.

She turns to face him fully, crosses her arms expectantly.

“Did you decide anything?” Tyler asks. He has his cowboy hat on, but the morning light slants low, making him squint when he looks at her. She circles him a little so he’s not staring into the sun.

“It shouldn’t really be a unilateral decision, should it?”

“Typically, yeah, it is just one person who decides to propose.”

“This isn’t about just one person,” Kate reminds him. “It’s about the crew.”

“I’m aware.”

“Well…”

“Well. Are you guys waiting on a group vote then?” he inquires facetiously.

“I didn’t say Javi and I agreed to get married,” she says, frowning.

“You didn’t say you didn’t either.”

She sighs at how frustrating Tyler’s being. He shifts his feet, making the gravel crunch under his boots. There’s a grit to him too—in how he only seems like he’s going along with this but obviously has something he feels he still has to say, something he hasn’t yet given up on. But Kate has a hard time with waiting. She likes making decisions quickly. Somehow, this—the prospect of marriage—is an exception. More complicated than it should be, if it’s just about securing the funding.

(It’s not. She knows it’s not, especially after talking to Javi last night.)

“I’m better at running,” Kate says quickly. “Lately.”

“What?”

“Than chasing.” She offers a weak shrug, not sure what to do with herself, with her body. Tyler’s so solid, standing here in front of her. So steady in his eyes.

“Do you wanna chase me?” He doesn’t sound surprised, exactly, but his words are less than a challenge.

“Seems like it’s my turn. You followed me to New York and all.”

“I didn’t follow you. Your flight got delayed and I had time to buy a ticket. I went with you.”

It’s true, he did. First, they waited out the delay together. The weather didn’t turn into what it might’ve, so it was only an extra hour. Tyler had time to call Boone about coming to get the truck, and Kate had time to call Javi about the storm warning. Javi hadn’t left the airport yet. Initially, he came inside. A tornado was about the only thing that could excuse there now being two trucks parked in the Drop-off Only zone outside. (That poor man.) They sat together in the chairs by the check-in desk, Kate and Tyler on either side of Javi as the three of them studied the weather data on his laptop, the hard-edged coloured shapes that scudded across dark county lines. As soon as they knew it was nothing, Javi said he’d drive back to get Boone himself, then bring him to the airport to collect the truck. Tyler said he didn’t have to. When Javi insisted, Tyler gave way. That surprised all of them. It was maybe the start of the new team.

In New York, Kate let Tyler come to work with her. Her coworkers were the weather-geek demographic Tyler appeared to have never even dreamed of; many of them were familiar with his YouTube channel. One of them asked if Dani was single. Kate grinned as she stood back and watched Tyler lean into his persona for the fans, into his accent—just the same as she had leaned away from her accent when she moved up here, not wanting questions about where she was from. Not wanting to think too often of home. She stood and watched, and then she went to her boss’s office and quit with as much grace as she could manage after taking a week off on almost no notice. Tyler urged the whole place into his trademark call and response on their way out the door.

“That’ll numb any hard feelings for a while,” he assured her as they took the elevator down to the lobby.

“What hard feelings?”

Tyler frowned at her.

“About losing you. They’re gonna miss the hell outta you, Sapulpa.”

“Too bad,” she said. She didn’t think it was true.

“Too bad is right. You belong to the South, and we’re takin’ you back.”

She wouldn’t let him help her pack up her apartment. What had once seemed fresh to her—the white walls and clean lines of starting over—now seemed barren and sad. She found she was glad to leave it. She didn’t want Tyler to see.

He spent his time in other ways. Took a ferry out to Liberty Island. Ate pizza in Brooklyn, pastrami on the Lower East Side. He got up to the Bronx to watch a baseball game at Yankee Stadium. Kate didn’t know how he managed it all. They were in New York for three and a half days. Tyler just beamed and told her his feet were killing him. He still helped her carry all her boxes down the stairs of her walk-up while the train rattled by.

They drove back to Oklahoma in a rental truck. Somehow, Tyler made it take four days, when they probably could’ve done it in two. He bought her an ice cream in St. Louis, laughed as it melted so fast that it ran down her hand.

She guesses this, now, standing in a diner parking lot, is overdue. Even though, like Javi said, she and Tyler have known each other less than a month. It doesn’t feel like it.

“What about you and Javi?” she asks bluntly.

“That could be fun,” Tyler allows. “There are a few more buttons there I wouldn’t mind pushing. Think he’d go for ‘Javi Owens’?”

A laugh bursts from Kate.

“I think you’d be taking your life in your hands if you asked him.”

When Tyler smiles at her, pleased but gentle, she gets it. She got it from them both: they’d get married for the application, probably even find it a lark, but it wouldn’t mean much more than that. There’d be less danger in it. That should be a good thing—a reason for Tyler and Javi to be the ones—but Kate knows it’s also the thing that’s making them all hold their breath. They’re used to this type of crossroad, the three of them, used to tilting their faces to the sky to check the conditions. In the end, they’ll always pick the road that leads them into danger, not away from it.

They both want Kate.

“You don’t have to chase me just because you think you should,” Tyler says sternly. “You don’t have to chase me at all.” His face softens. “I’m standing still.”

She laughs and, incredulous, asks, “Since when?”

“You,” he says simply. “I like Javi, Kate. I do.” But I want it to be me, his eyes say when his mouth stops.

“Yeah.” She knows. She can see that he does.

She and Tyler leave it there, because Boone and Javi are coming out of the diner now. They came in two vehicles and Kate goes with Javi because she knows he’ll let her think.

It’s officially not about the grant anymore. It’s not even about getting married. This is bigger and smaller than that. Kate puts the passenger-side window of Javi’s truck down (an older truck, no Storm Par logo) and leans into the onrush of air. The marriage would be strategic, but a relationship with either Tyler or Javi would be completely real. Real feelings, real expectations, real mess if it fell apart and they kept working together. Which they would; they all love this job too much.

For just a second, Kate shuts her eyes and wishes this wasn’t happening to her. Then she feels silly because, after Jeb, ever falling for another human being seemed astronomically unlikely. She stuck to storms. Had crushes on cloud formations. Made lovesick eyes at the sky when it turned a spooky shade of green. That Javi and Tyler are both ready to be with her seems like a miracle. She’s grateful. She just doesn’t know how to choose.

Javi leaves her alone for the entirety of the short drive. They pull into the motel lot behind Tyler and Boone and drive to the end where the doors of the crew’s motel rooms stand in a line. Dexter, Dani, and Lily are there as they pull in. They’re excited about something; Lily’s practically dancing on the sidewalk and Dani says something to Boone that makes him yank her into a hug.

Kate and Javi spill out of his truck.

“What’s going on?” she asks.

Lily springs towards her, raising her hand to show off a ring that’s slightly too big, slipping up and down her finger as Kate tries to look. Kate’s eyebrows shoot up.

“Dani and I got married!”

“Congratulations,” Tyler says, butting in before Kate can blurt out another What? or When?

“It’s just for the grant,” Lily reminds him, laughing and waving off his sincerity.

“Never thought I’d say somebody married me for the money,” Dani remarks wryly. She’s wearing a ring too. Hers fits better. Kate wonders where they got them, and assumes the tiny antique store on the main strip.

Lily blows Dani a kiss.

“I went as a witness,” Dexter says.

“This just happened?” Javi asks, looking at each of the three conspirators in turn.

Lily shrugs and says, “Yeah.”

“You didn’t talk to the rest of us about it,” Tyler says. Kate doesn’t think it’s quite a complaint, but he seems thrown to have been left out of the loop.

“Oh, like the three of you let us in on whatever you’ve been planning?” Dani demands, pointing out Tyler, Kate, and Javi.

Tyler looks a little sheepish after that.

“Haste was the order of the day,” Dexter says. “It seemed efficient. We can move forward with our application now.”

“Yeah,” Kate agrees, still a little stunned. “For sure. Efficient. Thanks for taking one for the team, you guys.”

“No problem,” Lily says, and pulls her into a hug.

It’s not until later, out at a bar to celebrate the wedding (or the marriage, or their hopes to deceive the government for financial gain, or just their crew, really, who delight in one another’s exploits), that Kate, Javi, and Tyler find themselves at the same table. As if it’s a coincidence. Kate presses the rim of her bottle of beer into her smile.

“Lived to fight another day,” Tyler says over the vibrant twang of music, staring at the rest of their crew as they line dance to and fro across the floor.

It’s so typically dramatic of him that Kate and Javi glance at one another, and Kate has to pinch her nose shut so beer doesn’t shoot out of it when she laughs.

“Owens, I saw you talking to Kate outside the diner this morning,” Javi reveals. “Didn’t look like you were pleading to be spared.”

“You were spying on us?” Kate demands, rounding on Javi. She gives his shoulder a half-hearted shove as he laughs.

“Hey! I wanted to see how things were gonna turn out!”

“I’m pretty curious about how things are gonna turn out myself,” Tyler asserts, leaning forward with his elbows on the table. He gives Kate a significant look. She dodges it, ducking her head with a smile. She can feel the both of them watching her.

Javi reads her right: “Too soon to say, huh, Kate?”

She looks up, letting her eyes slide from one face to the other, incredibly fond of them both. Slowly, she grins.

“Guess you’ll just have to keep watching the weather,” she tells them.

Kate slaps her hands on the table and rises to join the others on the floor.

#my writing #Twisters #Twisters (2024)#Kate Carter #Javi Rivera #Tyler Owens #Kate x Javi #Kate x Tyler #Javi x Tyler #Lily (Twisters #Boone (Twisters)#Dani (Twisters)#Dexter (Twisters)#Twisters fic

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creature-wizard · 10 months ago

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"Paganism isn't a Burger King or a Chinese buffet, you can't just pick and choose what you want" is bad rhetoric, and here's why.

I recently got an anon message telling me that paganism isn't like a Burger King or a Chinese buffet; you can't just have things your way or pick and choose what you like, and that "everything was organized a certain way for a reason" and that you "change the system at your own risk."

I pointed out that this is an incredibly historically-uninformed take, because there's never been a time or place in history where paganism was pure and unchanging, and there were many reasons for things being the way things were, most of them just not that deep or mysterious. (For example, politics.)

Anon sent a follow-up message stating that they were talking about cultural appropriation, which... strange if true, given that I hadn't been posting anything about appropriation recently.

In fact, it seems that the post this person was responding to was a post about pop culture witchcraft, given that the OP of that post got an anon message with the words "Chinese buffet analogy" and "pop culture paganism" in the same sentence. (It seems this person doesn't understand the difference between witchcraft and paganism. Common beginner mistake, but also, oof.) Said post wasn't encouraging any kind of appropriative behavior, but go off I guess, anon.

In any case, this kind of restaurant rhetoric isn't even good for safeguarding against cultural appropriation. It doesn't actually explain why cultural appropriation is a problem, and functionally just tells people to stay with what they they've been taught and don't question it. If anything, it reminds me of conservative Christian rhetoric telling people that they can't be Christian and pro-LGBTQ+ because "you can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow." (And I think we can all agree that we're better off when Christians decide to ignore this kind of sentiment.)

And speaking of conservative Christianity, people trying to get away from that kind of crap are generally not the kind of people who appreciate being stuck in shitty little boxes and being told they have to follow the rules Or Else. If you use this line on them, sooner or later they'll probably decide that this whole notion of cultural appropriation is a bunch of xenophobic, dogmatic crap, and they're not going to care anymore.

And if it does work on them? If they do internalize it? Congratulations, you've just taught them that policing people's practices for Not Being Pagan Enough is the way to go. This is how you get people harassing each other and putting each other down over total non-issues. It also means that they're less likely to think critically about their own beliefs and practices, and realize that maybe, just maybe, they're actually kinda shitty.

We should be able to explain to people that being mindful of cultural appropriation is about respecting other people's boundaries, access, and general welfare. We should be able to explain the actual harm that cultural appropriation does. Here are some examples:

The high demand for white sage among neopagans has contributed to overharvesting of white sage for commercial sale. This has resulted in ecological damage and made it more difficult for Natives to access the herb.

Ancient astronaut theorists twist and distort myths and traditions from numerous non-white cultures to make it seem as if they support a pseudohistorical narrative in which aliens supposedly built structures such as the Great Pyramids and Puma Punku. This narrative is linked with far right conspiracy theories in general. Those who speak out against the appropriation of their cultures' myths are regarded as unenlightened or agents of the conspiracy.

Commercializing aspects of marginalized culture to sell to the masses is essentially a form of exploitation; large companies benefit while they get nothing. Basically, if you wouldn't support intellectual property theft, you shouldn't support this kind of thing.

Said commercial products typically reinforce harmful stereotypes and misconceptions about said cultures.

In reality, there's no reason why people shouldn't pick and choose what they want provided they are minding boundaries. If somebody wants to worship Freya and Mercury and ignore other Norse and Roman gods, it literally hurts nobody.

There are many things that paganism is not. Paganism is not an unchanging monolith. Paganism is not decreed to us by an infallible authority. "Paganism" genuinely isn't even a very useful term to talk about Europe's rich tapestry of polytheistic beliefs with. But one thing that it is, is up to us, the living practitioners.

#cultural appropriation #paganism #paganblr #critical thinking #pagan

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dapperrokyuu · 1 year ago

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Alright now that I’ve seen the end Slay the Princess, who’s your favorite princess?

Ill do you even better and give you my top 5/the ones Id love to get if I played the game, just to see their sequences in the end and how itd reflect on that version of the player (literally made a list for fun just before you sent this ask, hehe).

Admittedly, a lot of this is informed by aesthetic and then enjoyment of their routes because I came into (watching Manlybadasshero play) the game after some fandom osmosis–thus, understanding I wouldnt have all my thoughts together within one playthrough. So I cant say Ive devoted my satisfactory amount of attention to speak on the princesses’ narrative presence... But I did rewatch their routes and “Thoughts on this vessel?” sections a bit to formulate a stronger opinion. Here we go...! (Buckle in, fellas, haha ha h a…)

1. Adversary/Eye of the Needle

The Adversary and the Eye of the Needle are very hand in hand imo, and I love the progression into a dragon-like appearance for the latter, especially in combination with the cabin becoming akin to a dragon’s den. This (combination of) routes stands out the most to me (as far as Manly has played) because I personally feel its the one where the princess is the most active and engaged. Whether its being beaten to death or running for one’s life, the route was very exciting for me! And it was intriguing how the princess and player felt the most on equal ground because they are both intent on pursuing some objective. Its just that in this case–and this is how this princess exceeds and is an overwhelming presence compared to the player–the princess is set on a choice they dont care to deny and the player is a creature of the habit called “deliberation,” as narrator aside, in-universe reasons aside, the very structure of Slay the Princess has taught you to constantly pause and consider your choices.

It contributes to the tone of the routes so well! Even if you can sit forever in the Outside World, the game progresses like a split second decision and/or that any time given to you is at the princess’s turbulent discretion. In a game where your choices tend to matter most (which, frankly, they do, its kind of the whole point, but you may not know that your choices are what caused this situation yet, lol), the princess seeming to supercede you and the narrative and the concept of death is!!! Powerful and quite something, lol. And poignant, considering *gestures vaguely but particularly at the Narrator*.

Otherwise, I love how theres apparently many more and amusing divergences in this route (that Manly did not showcase) and the ending is pretty cathartic. And to keep this a bit short, yadda yadda, dragon dens is where they store and protect their treasure and in this case, the treasure is fighting you, yadda yadda, as the vessel of growth, the princess’s embracing of the cycle of violence between you two is her latching onto the only avenue of growth she can perceive (as opposed to escaping–since you didnt offer that option prior–and dying since thats tend to be the stop to the concept of growth), yadda yadda-

2. Spectre

This princess’s voicework is probably my favorite! The whispering under the regular voice acting is just really neat, doing a great job setting a tone of something delicate, chilling, and unnerving. The princess’s design shifts between cute and scary very well too! Her personality is probably my fave overall; while her “thoughts on this vessel?” section highlights her embodying kindness and understanding, they only exist to an extent that is fair. Which is, well. Fair. And I think it extra emphasizes the understanding aspect, with how the princess is aware of her circumstances and the injustices that have occurred yet is willing to let bygones be bygones. Shes coy, sincere, and pragmatically deadly, which is a full spectrum of delight for me!

The moment that really gets me regarding her character is when you say youre gonna leave her. Other decisions lead you to working together or demonstrating you have no intention to with some form of violence–both resulting in the Spectre just responding fairly. But the “leave” option truly shows that the Spectre doesnt/never intends to act out in malice, since Spectre responds out of desperation to avoid perpetual loneliness, pain, and emptiness. Theres an aspect of “fairness” here too (youre abandoning and hurting her more after having murdered her), but the choice comes after a breakdown and deliberation as opposed to an immediate retaliation. Even then, Spectre laments that she didnt want things to be this way but youve made her worse. Other stand out moments are when Spectre goes, “Youre funny when youre confused. But I didnt give you permission to touch me,” and the player’s moment of patheticness, lol.

This route really hints onto the meta aspects of Slay the Princess too, which is neat! The whole “want to end the world” convo, Spectre just wanting to go home, reality being what is in front of us vs. static truth/objectivity, whether destruction being one thing leading into another vs. the same thing reborn, glass on the floor, and the narrator being like Spectre as a memory of a person…I dont have much to say here currently–still need to ponder, itd be a whole other conversation, Im a bit tired, lol–but its tons of food for thought that I enjoy! Yay, Spectre!

3. Prisoner

Fun fact: this is a rewriting of the extreme word vomit that was me lamenting over how I was kind of confused about the Prisoner but chose her for the sake of a 5th (note the placing change) and then discovering the absolute genius she is!!! Basically, my only exposure to the Prisoner I had was Manly’s recent playthrough, which contained (what Ill call) the Chained Together variation and didnt even have her “thoughts on this vessel?” section due to the game going into the final sequence immediately after. The Prisoner’s section in that final sequence befuddled me because I couldnt connect much other than a theme of “inevitable change,” and even when I dug up the Prisoner’s “thoughts on this vessel?” elsewhere, I couldnt put it all together…until I watched (what Ill call) the Head Trophy variation in the middle of my initial writeup.

Regarding what I enjoyed prior to recognizing genius, I really enjoyed how the Prisoner conducted herself–her curtness and resignation was very unique. Her form was created as a result of the player cutting off her arm, instilling a matter of fact-ness to her that allows her to slit the player’s throat later (got this from the Wiki, Manly didnt show this part). Upon waking up once again chained and chained even more, I interpreted the cleverness aspect from the Prisoner’s “thoughts on this vessel?” section as being able to come to terms with her situation, play along, and bid her time in hopes that her patience (that she emphasizes) would eventually reward her. After all, the Prisoner was willing to pretend she and the player met for the first time until the player prompts otherwise, even saying they dropped “playing the game”--very meta of her! Thus, I interpreted the Prisoner as the princess completely embodying/accepting her role in the game; she couldnt leave when she defied her role last time, so she was fine continuing to wait this time. As a character who realized they were a character and systematically changed their behavior to attempt a new avenue of escape, I thought that was the extent of the Prisoner’s cleverness and was satisfied…enough.

AND I WAS WRONG. DELIGHTFULLY WRONG. I assumed the Prisoner was completely fine with her potentially only means of escape becoming not one, since she didnt seem upset or disappointed. Which was frankly incorrect, as her rude curtness is a result of her being miffed with you. Why? Because her cleverness actually alludes to the fact she had a plan for escape the entire time, and you utterly fucked it up! Which, tbf, she shouldve shown more reaction than curiosity to dissuade the player, but I digress- During the Head Trophy variation, you realize that the Prisoner had a plan this entire time to deceive the Narrator and she succeeds so well because she also got me and got the player. How often do I get got? It was amazing! From the stare as the Prisoner takes the knife away from the player, to the smile before That All Happens, to the wink as it occurs and after, it may speak to an underestimation thats set up due to the Prisoner’s appearance and behavior, but reflecting on all the signs that She Planned This dismantles that perception and reaffirms that the Prisoner is a person with depth beyond what you expect from her and those in her role. As I viewed the Prisoner as a caricature of the princess’s role in the first place (the whole point is that the Prisoner is exactly like the princess in appearance except the chained/locked up aspect is exaggerated), this route is so striking for me with its interrogation of victimhood, how victims are treated/viewed, and how that may be unintentionally stripped of their personhood and reduced (into a caricature of solely “a victim”). The Prisoner puts it quite nicely when the player attacks and she “suddenly” has a ton of fight in her, stating, “Im not a damsel to be helplessly murdered!” …Im not sure if I put it into words the best, but I hope this is understandable. To top off the topic of Prisoner’s cleverness, its a neat detail (I dont know if this is intentional) that the Prisoner does the opposite of what her prior princess form did: the player cut her arm to free her last time, she cut herself out this time and the player “died” the last time, she “died” this time. Beyond recognizing there was a Narrator beyond them she should fool, the Prisoner also reasoned that since having the player kill her is likely not favorable, dying by her own hand might just be fine! The Head Trophy variation is just more poignant when you note that her “thoughts on this vessel?” section talks about how the Prisoner protected herself when others could not but for her plan to work, she has to put complete faith in another.

As 1000% better the Head Trophy variation is in the Prisoner’s route, I do have a soft spot for the Chained Together variation since, from both the Prisoner and the Narrator’s perspective, it must be a hilarious emotional rollercoaster. The Prisoner’s plan failed and shes now stuck with the loser who made it so…for potentially forever! The Narrator probably oscillates between an uneasy concession that while both gods are not dead, they are locked up forever and an utter dread that things may fall apart at any time and thus, the world is practically doomed with no way to change that. The Prisoner doesnt have to decapitate herself, which makes her freedom extra cathartic in the relief she likely felt and didnt expect…and also extra sad in how she found it was nothing but cold and is quickly taken away. Theres also something to be said about how the player joins the princess in her perspective by chaining himself up and that they both inform each other’s perspective, leading to their escape together: (1) since the princess isnt starving to death, the player also doesnt, which is a surprise to the Voices and (2) the player showing up again signaled that change is indeed possible to the princess, perhaps causing the ability for the world to erode around them. Maybe the latter is the Voices informing the player, causing the change…? But I like to think its the initial thought since the cabin could and shouldve have eroded prior to the player’s arrival, assuming the Prisoner understands the concept of erosion…which, I assume she does- Anyways, the route is as emotional as it is kind of wacky, which is up my alley!

4. Witch

This princess is the one I enjoy the most aesthetically. Im a sucker for both witches and cats, what can I say? The allusion to the fable The Scorpion and the Frog really tickles me, and ultimately, whatever decisions made in this chapter are some form of hilarious. Whether we’re both dying on the floor with broken backs or handing a blade to someone who immediately stabs you, its great. I do enjoy the progression into the Thorn chapter, especially with the immediate regret from the Witch and the following reconciliation in Thorn’s chapter, but Thorn is not as funny and aesthetically pleasing as Witch princess for me, which is why she is not here, haha.

Her “Thoughts on this vessel?” section adds a lot of depth to her, since the way the Witch presents herself is very superficial and guarded. Particularly the statement about the Witch making for a “righteous” heart, in combination with her ability to just slip out of her chains. She couldve freed herself at any time, but chose to stay and confront you. Which I feel speaks to the bitterness aspect, as the Witch feels its only “right” to pursue an answer to her pain–whether it be the player’s penance or punishment. The game’s thoughts on bitterness are made even more poignant when you realize the Witch’s ends are either death (hers and/or yours) or a transformation into another state.

5. Tower

This route is just incredibly cool in how she takes over the narrator and the little divergences of the narration’s phrasing to be in her perspective in the voiceover. The progression into that route was amusing for me to think about because I think the shift of perspective that transforms the princess boils down to either “the princess had the might of a god to have defeated you,” “your sudden stop during the fight was a blessing from god to the princess,” and/or “your sudden stop was because your recognized the value of the princess’s life as larger than your own (‘larger than life,’ referring to her bigger form as the Tower and godhood itself).” The Tower calling you disappointing is funny, but what also sticks out is how she said she wanted company before turning into the Tower. Even as the Tower with the ability to just free herself, she chose to wait for you because thats what she wanted, and I think that plays on the relational idea of “What is a god without a believer?” since she’s willing to have the player as a priest or pet, lol.

How this route differs from the Adversary route is interesting, as the Tower is indeed also an overwhelming presence whose decisions matter more than yours not because her single minded relentless pursuit of it but because of the power to overwrite yours. Its a twist on the player’s and princess’s roles until now, but instead of making them equal like in the Adversary, the roles were reversed on who decides and who is forcefully changed as a result of that decision. Of course, you cant take the ability to choose from us, as a player completely, but its about the best you can do, I imagine. And not to mention the “defiling” aspect when you slay the Tower, dragging her down from godhood to an equal (humanity?) or perhaps her original state of someone who responds to your decision as usual… I think this route connects deeply to the meta aspect of Slay the Princess, since this state is where the princess is closest to the “concept of change” and the concept of their true self as a god. It makes the “thoughts on this vessel?” section very poignant because change in itself is indeed a constantly dominant, terrifying, and arguably divine force in its inevitability.

Honorable Mention to...the Damsel!

I really like the deconstruction of her concept, but that also means I feel that liking her is completely counterintuitive to that very deconstruction, lol. Her route is very straightforward in what it does, but it kind of has to be. Meaning it does what it set out to do very well.

This took a bit and is so much more than you asked for, so thank you for your patience and acceptance. Im just bonkers and bananas, so if I have it partially done, I might as well go all the way instead of going in depth on only one, lol. It was a fun exercise in pondering deeper about the princesses and dipping my toes in the ~meta~, but I will also readily say that Im not at all nearly deep enough into Slay the Princess as a whole to be confident on my takes, so this may have just been a session of Talking Out Of My Booty. Nonetheless, I hope this was enjoyable and thank you for prompting me to think about it! The order of the princesses changed throughout this answer, and it may be fun to guess what order they were written in, lol. Id love to hear about your fave/faves if youre interested in sharing as well~! And please, have a lovely day too!!! c:

#a wild ask appeared!#thanks and also Im so sorry adnbladkj #but also maybe not and youre welcome??? I dunno boss #a showcase of how theres tons of thoughts up there theyre just in a dam constantly threatening to spill out and it either manages to stay #there forever or is a FLOODDDDD- anyways #slay the princess #I guess. in case anyone would find this an enjoyable read- gotta think on the game a ton more but bandwidth mayhaps Ill get there someday #*shrugs* I still gotta get into my cha*ns*w m*n thoughts... <- so I dont spam/mistag lol

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mewguca · 2 years ago

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Me when I self-insert so hard i accidentally take a one-off drawing and make it a whole au

haha i am back on my nonsense...

i guess the idea is basically. twin moons haha. diana is more like. the game version of moon but probably slightly different in some way idk i gotta work on them both...Luna is kinda just. slef insert beam go brrr but also kinda different i guess uh. different kinda strengths and weaknesses?

Diana is more "proper" and better versed in her iterator duties and the knowledge of the world around her. She's more outgoing and assertive and can even sometimes be a little bit sarcastic. She takes on a big sisterly role for the other iterators, checking in on them a lot. She is well-informed on politics and history and other topics that concern her duties, and she monitors the condition of the Regions around her. She tends to be more logical and rational, but that is not to say she is cold by any means. She is sort of the model of a "perfect" iterator, and she is praised as such. This gives her expectations to live up to, though, and she sometimes struggles under the pressure to live up to them.

Luna is less focused on her duties and more...spacey I guess? She's much more shy and reserved and is a bit more pessimistic and unconfident...but she enjoys creating things like drawing and singing and talking to the residents of their can(s) about their creations. She is less concerned about things like politics and history and more interested in looking at cute little creatures in the surrounding ecosystem, haha. She also has a bit of a mischievous side she lets show sometimes. She likes to make people laugh and maybe tease them a bit.

They're both very caring though, of course. They both share that aspect of Moon! They especially care about each other and enjoy spending time together...they also like to dote on their little brother FP. They are both highly regarded, if in somewhat different ways and for different reasons. Diana is revered for her academic and practical contributions, such as keeping the systems running smoothly. Luna is revered for her contributions to the culture and the arts in the cities atop her can. They serve important roles and are seen as inseparable.

Of course yknow theyre not perfect so they can be kinda envious of each other sometimes etc etc hehe...

I suppose my idea for their structures is connecting structures? They have a connecting chamber in the middle, and the combination of structures in general can be either connected or separated. Diana is technically the senior twin so she has the overall authority at the end of the day. They also still share some water with FP because they are still neighbors.

I am unsure what their chat acronyms should be...maybe copy the theme of moon's ingame one and do Big Sis Diana and Little Sis Luna? Though...then thatd be confusing talking to their little brother maybe haha. But having them use LTTMI and LTTMII does not seem...the most practical.

When it comes to ...yknow...I am unsure which direction I want to go in. Should I have them collapse together since it's less scary if they have each other?

or should I be evil and make one of them force their water onto the other so they can get help for the other twin...But then....they'd definitely be separated...and if one side collapses more than the other, I'm not sure how you'd get them back together. Much to think about!

I think it'd be cute to see them interact with monk and surv, though! the little scug siblings! just like them! and separated just like them if we go that route smiles diabolically

I do want them to be happy in the end of course! but yknow we can have a little suffering as a treat

I have much to flesh out...waahhhh the brainrot never ends I suppose

#rain world #egg art #egg doodles #rain world oc #rain world au #looks to the moon #twin moons #i do apologize if something doesnt really make sense i still do not know the full lore haha #but also the brainrot cannot be stopped even if my silly little ideas are not the most realistic #eggmoon oc #rambled eggs

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juminies · 7 months ago

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Aside from the BE2 mischaracterisation, do you have any other fanon Jumin pet peeves?

Sure do lol, I want to preface though by saying that I don't think any particular characteristic is wrong or out of place all of the time. He can act any which way if it's for a reason and he can do things he otherwise wouldn't if a specific situation calls for him to. Sure he wouldn't fucking say that usually but he might if he was stuck and you can definitely explore that! Even his route itself is an example of him being pushed to his limit and acting in a way he usually wouldn't, and both he and his friends point that out frequently. This to say that me saying I don't like it when people interpret him as xyz doesn't mean him being written that way is inherently bad, so don't let me discourage you from writing. Anyway!

I think I've mentioned most of this at some point or another, and honestly I feel like a lot of his most common mischaracterisations do stem from the same place BE2 comes from. Any part of him being incredibly domineering or overly possessive, making big decisions without consulting MC, trying to limit who she talks to, being suspicious of her, etc. On the contrary he is very much at her beck and call. Her happiness is his. He's not going to be immediately perfect but being protective does not inherently mean being controlling and I think it's a fine line that people can trip over very easily.

Kind of continuing from that, I dislike it when people think he's too demanding on a professional level. It's often to the point of people calling him abusive, and while I can't deny that he's strict and impersonal and often a bit oblivious to larger structures at play, on the whole he's respectful of the people that work for him and genuinely values their contributions to the workplace. He wants everything done to the highest possible standard and I understand it can at times have negative repercussions, but he's not just an unreasonable dick who gets off on the power imbalance.

I'm also really not a fan of people believing him to be overly traditional i.e. the very socially conservative, strict gender roles, no sex before marriage, children must attend church type. It just doesn't make sense. It's taking smaller aspects of his character or things he says out of context and blowing them out of proportion—into something they're simply... not? Even the things he does say directly (eg. not living together before marriage) could be swayed easily under the influence of his fiancée.

Sure he likes things done efficiently in a way he knows works, but he is both very knowledgable and repeatedly shown to be very open to learning. He's curious and asks questions and will try and understand things to the best of his ability, even when they're entirely unimportant. If he's made aware of his ignorance he will not continue to push it (unless you're Zen, maybe). Jumin is not stubborn if he has no reason to be! He is very much pliable. You can tell him off and he'll listen. He wants to hear your side of things. He likes it when people disagree with him; a fan of some healthy debate, if you will. And he is not!! selfish!! So much of what he does is for others. He very rarely puts himself first. He's trusting and beyond loyal and goes out of his way to make sure his influence/knowledge/money are used for good the minute he deems it necessary to help those around him.

It annoys me when people act as if he's clueless and sort of just sits back and lets his status do the work for him. There seems to be this narrative of him being foolish and relying on others to get him by but that is absolutely the opposite of what he's really like. His intelligence and resourcefulness are not just a façade created by his disposition or the way he was brought up. He tells MC himself that his father wouldn't have put so much trust in him if he wasn't capable of handling it. He really wants her to believe in him because he's used to people wrongly assuming. It's not like he's just the heir and has little to no role, or even that he only oversees a department or two. He has a VERY high position in the company and easily excels at it. Jaehee herself (who people tend to see as the overworked one) admits that Jumin works significantly more than she does. He's the director of a global conglomerate in his twenties and takes it in his stride.

Last but not least he is far from unemotional. He's just good at detaching himself from his feelings and viewing them objectively. It does not!!! mean he does not feel or he does not care 💜

#ty for coming to my ted talk #jumin han #oh also um. I don't think he's kinky. sorry

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zeroducks-2 · 2 years ago

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tell us about the nasty Slade man from TT03

since you guys (and @exhausted-pigeon) asked, here's me talking about iconic Teen Titans 2003 Slade :D

Disclaimer right here. Unlike a lot of fortunate folks, I did not have Teen Titans available to watch back then (I really missed out, especially cause I was in my pre-teen years and that would have been The Perfect Show for me at that point). This means that I only got to watch tt03 recently, therefore these thoughts don't come from someone who holds the show dear as a childhood memory, and who fell in love with it a long time ago, who had their christening to DC stuff through that and yada yada.

I'll therefore discuss tt03 Slade without personal/emotional involvement, and keeping in mind that tt03 is indeed a show intended for a young audience. I'll be adding screenshots for poignancy, so it's going to be a pretty long post :)

End of disclaimer, now onto the good shit.

So, what to say about Slade. Fans have been calling him downright devious, the Teenagers Tormentor, A True Menace To Society, a master manipulator, and a child predator even if there's nothing *too* explicit being that this is a show for kids.

(not that kids being the target audience stopped them showing Slade sleeping with Tara in NTT back in the '80s, but that's a conversation for another time)

Do I think that any of this is true? The answer is essentially yes, I agree with all of the above.

Slade is a very fun character, and his presence dominates the scene every time he's on screen. He's a solid villain, one that feels truly threatening for the protagonists (and not like a forgettable bad guy who can be overpowered with The Power Of Friendship™), and he fits perfectly with the dynamic of the show. He will do the most ridiculous corny things, like materializing at random in a corner of a panoramic wheel cart, while the wheel is in motion, right when Terra and Beast Boy are about to kiss (just to ruin their night basically).

I tried to find a gif cause this scene is too funny but sadly I didn't manage.

But he will also (and mostly) do fucked up shit which people nowadays argue as not belonging in a kid show, like grooming teenagers and/or forcing them to work for him.

His design is also easily iconic, and he's huge in bulk compared to the tiny, slender kid protagonists, adding to the threatening vibe.

I mean look at that Raven's a mushroom compared to him

But he's not a monster - you know he's a human being while you're watching the show, whether you imagine an eyepatch and silver hair like comicbooks!Slade or you picture a completely different kind of face on him, you still know he's just a man... or is he.

The show subtly toys with the idea that Slade might not be human after all. His face is never shown - every single time one of the characters manages to overpower him and unmask him, they find out that they've been fighting against a robot.

This happens after a fight so violent Robin almost dies by falling off a building, and SLADE HIMSELF saves him - reason being more or less "I'm not done kicking your ass". Eventually Robin manages to overpower him, takes off his mask, and lo and behold:

Slade wasn't even there the whole time.

Also, he seems to live in some sort of lab filled with complicated tech and huge gears that spin into nothing. Does this man even need to sleep, eat or drink?

What is this place and how high is the rent

I love what he did with the huge gears it's so ambient

All of this contributes to the threatening, mysterious aura surrounding the character. Which at times can turn into outright terrifying despite the show being relatively lighthearted. Pretty soon the narrative manages to establish the fact that Slade is nearly impossible to beat, that he will do anything to bring down the protagonists (or bring them under his control), and that you can always expect the worst from him.

But the most interesting aspect to discuss is for most people the child predator vibes this character has from his first appearance throughout the entirety of the show. And to whoever says "you can't tell me that they didn't do this intentionally", well, consider two things

1 - Slade in the comicbooks did sleep with a 15yo, in order to use her to bring down the Titans. So like, the fact that he *might* sleep with kids isn't much of a far-fetched hypothesis and 2 - The way he acts goes beyond the average "well this is a kids show of course the villain will act in weird ways towards kids".

Let me expand a little on this second point. When the protagonist of a story is a kid, the villain that will try to hurt/kill them is not automatically a child predator or a child abuser, only because he hurts a kid. In the context of that story it makes sense that the villain will act as if the protag was an adult - the story was created with a young audience in mind, and if other characters treated the protag like a child it would break their immersion.

So is this the case with Slade? Well yes, but actually no. There obviously is a case of "he treats the characters like adults cause it's a kids show" but does he, really? Slade works with the fact that the characters are kids, therefore inexperienced and easy to manipulate. He also wants an apprentice, which necessarily has to be young. In Terra's case, he plays on her insecurities and her need for someone to teach her and guide her. And then there's the way the scenes are directed and the creepiness factor of just how this man interacts with these kids that rightfully puts him in the creep zone, regardless of what exactly the story will show in terms of explicit details.

For this to make more sense I need to make examples, so let's dive in a little deeper starting with Fans Favorite's ... *drumroll* ...

The Apprentice Arc

It starts out with Slade contacting the Titans to tell them that he planted a bomb in the city. Robin, who's already obsessing at the point of waking up drenched in sweat after nightmares where he and Slade beat the shit out of each other, snaps into action to retrieve the trigger of the bomb.

Tis Robin waking up in his "Pepe Silvia" room dedicated to Slade after a nightmare, for your viewing pleasure.

So off the kids go, and while Robin chases Slade, the rest of the team goes try and dismantle the bomb. Slade tosses Robin around for a while, and when Robin manages to grab the remote control, Slade reveals that this is not a remote control because there is no bomb at all - rather, the rest of the Titans have just gotten hit with a laser beam that infected them with nanomachines. Now Robin has to do Slade's bidding and become his apprentice; if he refuses, or disobeys, Slade will use a button to inflict pain and potentially kill the other Titans, thanks to those nanomachines.

These are said nanomachines attached to the Titans' blood cells, conveniently displayed in huge ass screens. I love this scene so much it's so SERIOUS and SO CORNY at the same time lmao.

What ensues is Robin being forced to become Slade's apprentice, dressed in a cute replica of Slade's own suit,

And meanwhile Slade tosses him around either for the funsies or because Robin dares do something he doesn't like. Explicitly saying that he wants Robin to call him "Master". Please go watch the scene, it's 7 seconds long but it conveys EVERYTHING. This mf calls Robin "good boy" in the most condescending way you can ever imagine. Here, click this, I promise you won't be disappointed.

Here's Slade beating up a child for your viewing pleasure.

So at some point Robin is ordered to infiltrate Wayne Enterprise. The Titans try to stop him, Slade pushes for him to fight them, but baby doesn't want to especially when Starfire refuses to engage him. Slade not only starts to torture them with the nanomachines, forcing Robin to shoot them, but when kiddo gets back to him he receives the ass-whooping of his life, followed by this scene:

Here Slade is basically saying "I'm going to put you in your place in a way that will stick", but the scene is conveniently cut by the arrival of the rest of the Titans.

Robin has the idea of infecting himself with the nanomachines, so now if Slade wants to kill them, he has to kill him too. And Slade... tosses away the button, discarding the nanomachines plan on the spot, because the point REALLY was having Robin as an apprentice. If he can't have him, then there's no point.

Then there's Terra's Arc in Season 2, which goes more or less like this:

The Titans meet Terra, a kid their age who's very strong (she can manipulate the earth) but can't perfectly control her own powers. She's very self-conscious about this and when Beast Boy finds out, she begs him not to tell anyone, which he promises.

Soon after she gets singled out by Slade, who corners her and starts poking and prodding about how weak she is, unable to control her powers, and how her "new friends" will soon find out and once they do, they will discard her.

Honestly the fact that he's so big and Terra's itty bitty teeny tiny really adds to the overall creepiness of this scene. They're blocked in a cave underground btw, and to hammer the point home Slade starts tossing her around until she completely freaks out and almost buries herself under the rubble.

Soon after that, Robin deduces by himself that Terra isn't in complete control of her powers, but Terra thinks that Beast Boy snitched on her after promising he wouldn't say anything. Hurt and betrayed she runs away, and guess who she runs to?

As far as I remember, the amount of time Terra spends with Slade is nondescript. But what she says is that he trained her, taught her to not be afraid of her own powers (which is true, she can control her powers now), and gave her a purpose and direction. She comes back and infiltrates the Titans, now being a well groomed little spy, but despite her efforts Slade keeps being abusive and beats the living hell out of her when she comes back to him after a failed mission. He can puppeteer her through the suit she's wearing, but at some point she manages to break free of his control and the arc ends tragically with Terra killing Slade, and herself.

Is this the end of it then? Nuh-huh. Here comes the

Whatever the fuck is happening to Robin Arc

So Slade is dead. But at some point during a fight, Robin starts seeing him and chasing him, getting a mild ass-whoop like he normally would. His teammates are obviously confused but they comply when Robin tells them to go defuse these bombs that Slade planted - only there are no bombs. And it looks like Robin is the only one who can even see Slade.

The situation escalates at the point of Robin having to be strapped to a bed because he was literally killing himself while "fighting Slade", despite being the only one who could see him. Slade himself is the one that frees him from the restraints, and keeps beating him within an inch of his life, at the point that Robin starts begging.

And here we have what's probably the most memorable line of the whole show: "I am the thing that keeps you up at night. I am the evil that haunts every dark corner of your mind. I will never rest and neither will you."

What is happening here in theory is that Robin got dosed with toxic dust coming from Slade's mask, therefore he's seeing things and his brain is in so much stress that he might die from strain (he ends up saving himself by turning on the light). But taking into consideration what happened during the Apprentice arc, it's easy to see parallels with PTSD.

There is actually more. There's Slade being resurrected by Trigon and going rapey on Raven (you've seen the screenshot before) by tearing off her cape, and there's also an epic moment in which Slade goes to hell, WITH ROBIN'S HELP, to retrieve his own body and aid in the fight against Trigon. But I think my point already came across well enough:

Teen Titans 2003 Slade is a fucking creep, and compared to him, NTT Deathstroke is a sweet little lamb who wouldn't hurt a fly. Which is why it is so funny to me when people claim tt03 Slade is "better cause he never slept with a teenager" - Boy oh boy, you might have not seen it on screen but the subtext is clear as day.

This man has no moral code, no bounds (other than what the PG rating of the show will place on him) and not an ounce of humanity. I don't need to see no scene with half naked kids smoking cigarettes with only a bathrobe as clothing (like this one) to know what this man did.

#long post #Slade #teen titans 2003 #my asks #thank you for asking folks it was my pleasure to talk about this horrible horrible man #they don't make villains like these anymore #and to be honest they never did before #Slade is one of a kind

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contritecactite · 6 months ago

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As ever, it takes the tiniest hint of encouragement (thanks @grimboigio ) to goad me into generating a wall of text. Well, actually, the wall was already there. Big big Hades II spoilers below in the form of messy half-baked notes I've been jotting down as I play. Some are just things that I got excited about, but there's a tiny sliver or two of theories and expectations.

I think we're headed for no happy ending, just acceptance—the battle is against Chronos, but it's really about *time* as a concept; for these gods, time really did take its toll and change the way mortals relate to them. Supergiant will never make another sequel for the same reason: things belong in their own time.

The lycaons *could* just be heralding Cerberus, but they somehow give me a sense of the trappings of Roman the Empire creeping in (in an intentional, storytelling way). Same with the emptiness of Ephyra and the hints of war in the mortal aspect. It feels like this is the fall of the cultures we now call "ancient Greece" as told through the eyes of the gods who get left behind or changed.

Apollo is giving me traitor vibes. He had a line about how we "have all the time in the world," and there's just something too carefree about him.

This feels like a lovely little patchwork quilt of Supergiant games. Homer is more reactive like the Bastion narrator. The music, the social bonding opportunities, and the inventory and lore screens feel a bit like Pyre. Some upgrade systems remind me of Transistor, and the mood reminds me very much of it as well. The writing and combat are still very Hades, and there are new aspects that speak of a team that has taken the time to understand what works, what doesn't, and what improvement and innovation should look like within their existing framework.

Echo's whole thing is fucking clever. Those gifts: Either repeats or diminishing returns—just like an echo. Holy fucking shit the way I vibrated when I met Echo the first time.

I love my randomly assigned college roommate who never goes to her classes and moves all my shit for no reason (Dora). If she were my actual roommate, I would feel a very different way about this.

Eris is perfect. I love her being mean-spirited mischief rather than brute force or accidental mischief; it feels like a unique character composition. She's awful. I can't stand her. She's perfect. She also reminds me of Spoiler from Pixie Tricks, a series I read as a kid (both in personality and, vaguely, design).

Nemesis and Artemis sound like they have a no-strings on-again off-again kind of thing going on and I love that for them. Also hope Charon and Hermes get to see each other again soon bc I'm rooting for them so hard.

I literally shrieked when taking out one of the sirens *actually impacted their contribution to the song*. I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was so much fun to hear it happen anyway. Very immersive! I'm also in love with Scylla. She reminds me very specifically of Ryan Stiles' Carol Channing impression and a little of Dolly Parton. Also. Her fucking hood. Jesus.

One of my favorite things about Hades is that there was nothing that an enemy or boss could do that you couldn't do through some combination of boons, weapons, and upgrades. The same seems to hold true here so far, and I just can't say enough how *cool* that is. The worst part of any combat-heavy game to me is the realization that the boss or even the cutscene of your character can do things that you, the player, can't initiate or control during a regular battle. Hades says "yeah, fuck that. It'll look different when you do it vs. when that sea serpent does it, but you can accomplish the same action/effect." Likewise, there's practically nothing your character can do that isn't also usable by at least one enemy. That keeps things balanced and combats the sense of "ah yes, you are the Most Special Chosen One" that's often inherent to RPGs. It gives the sense that skill matters a lot and makes me as a player feel skilled—I'm not visually doing anything that my enemies can't do, so... maybe I'm actually kinda good at this? (I am mediocre at best, but the game lets me *feel* skilled).

Additionally, just as in Hades, the enemies in an area are very informative about how upcoming bosses will behave. It rewards a player for paying attention and makes each enemy populating an area make *sense*.

After beating the sirens, ALL I wanted was for Melinoë to be able to have one single fan among the shades like Zagreus in the Theseus map. What I got was even *better*; the same type of interaction, but in a way that takes into account *her* task-focused, serious personality while still giving a little bit of levity. She is *done* with being here and ready for everyone to clear out, and that grumpy shade is not having it. He even makes a new little face! Love you, purple shade in the corner.

Oh, hey, charybdis, there you are

THE 2 IS IN *ROMAN* NUMERALS I'm having a moment

yeah that's it that's what I got. For now. My gaming buddy keeps falling asleep when I try to gush and talk through things, so Tumblr gets it instead.

#hadesgame #hades ii #hades spoilers #hades ii spoilers #messy notes from a guy who hasn't really studied mythology or history much and also hasn't beaten all of what's available #in other words: take it with a whole shaker of salt. I'm just babbling.

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thoughtfullyrainynightmare · 1 year ago

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why do you love/like fuegoleon so much? / gen

Hiya! ^^

Honestly, I think this is a very good question to ask, because, one, it gives me an excuse to talk about him, but also get into a discussion why love him when the heroes of the series are other people. And... I'm not sure how long this will be, but perhaps it's better to buckle down.

Though, in a sentence I would answer: "Because of the vibes"

But. Let's get to the long answer

Admittedly, from the point of view of the grand plot, he seems to be a bit of a Sexy Lamp(tm). Meaning that he has no great contribution to the story as a whole, at least not until this point at least. Some of the criticisms I have seen about him include "[him] not being able to teach Asta about antimagic/devil union/ fighting". Which I think is unfair to use as a source of criticism because, well, Fue doesn't use antimagic. No other character uses antimagic. It's be the same as asking a Water Magic user to teach a Fire Magic user. The affinities are profoundly different, so it'd be incredibly difficult to teach someone with a different affinity from your own properly, or so I imagine. Sure, general guidelines and ideas could be discussed, and some techniques that involve mana, and not the magic type itself, are doable (an example would be Yami (or Sukehiro) learning about using mana zone in another way from Mereoleona). The reason why Yami is the best suited to teaching Asta in the beginning is because Yami teaches about ki which is a different concept, and gives Asta something, a foothold, into a fighting style. And the same applies to Devil Union. Fuegoleon doesn't have a devil. He's not affiliated with Forbidden Magic or the dark arts, so he's not suited for such a mentor. When it comes to not teaching Asta fighting, I think the most important aspects are that Fuegoleon was in a coma for the majority of Asta's early journey, and even during the times he was around, Asta wasn't his (Fue's) underling. We don't see Captains of different squads coming to mentor/teach other squads' knights. So, there is no reason for Fue to have undertaken this feat.

"He had one job and that was to keep the magic stone safe, and he failed". That's another criticism I have come across, and... I don't think people realize the situation there was. Sure, Fue lost his cool for a second, which against a Light Mage, is more than enough for it to be a fatal shot. And, Fue recognized his peer! Someone he trusted to keep the kingdom safe. Someone very high in the hierarchy! Of course he was taken aback by the betrayal. And the thing about betrayal is that it never comes from our enemies. Betrayal comes from our friends. So, him having that moment of shock doesn't make him weak. It makes him human.

Personally I've been drawn to determined, charismatic and intelligent characters throughout my life, and he is that as well. Yes, he is a bit aloof at times (the degrees depend on if you follow the manga, or anime, or take into account both of them), but he is still intelligent, charismatic and driven. He is a proper gentleman, but he is also a warrior, and a knight. He's level headed in a battle, and does know that hesitation and wavering can be fatal in a field of battle (which brings layers onto point 2). Irony is one of those layers.

He genuinely cares about his knights. This can be seen from how his knights defended Fuegoleon's efforts and dedication to Mereoleona, who accused the Lions (and Fue) of slacking off after the Star Festival. It's been established that Mereoleona is a force to be reckoned with, and that the Lions, are at least to a degree, afraid of Mereo. Plus, Mereo was the authority figure there. And the Lions, with Leo taking the lead, talked back and defended Fuegoleon. So, the Lions must really, genuinely, feel that Fuegoleon cares about them through the time and effort he puts in training and honing the Lions' skills, along with his own.

Fuegoleon is all about growth and looking into the future. The ideology of: What matters is what you choose to make out of your life. "Being weak is nothing to be ashamed of. Staying weak is." I find this incredibly inspirational.

He is resilient as hell, and willing to put the good of the kingdom before his own. I cannot properly describe the backbone he has to have, for him to be able to still serve the kingdom that overlooked his dismembering! He is still there! As a knight, and working side-by-side with the man who did dismember him! (Or at least looked through his fingers when his body was doing the deed. Granted that William's story is a whole different post and analysis, but this is about Fuegoleon's point of view.) The person who was pardoned by the system which they both serve! A little slap on the wrist to William, while Fue is there without an arm! Constantly at a disadvantage by having to use mana and concentration to have two functioning arms! Which probably is required for him to use some spells too, so he needs to first cast mana to make his arm move, which then fires a spell. Layering a spell on top of another, essentially.

The fact that Fue is able to uphold mana control and concentration constantly with his arm is really cool, and speaks of his skill level.

Tabs hasn't given him a Spirit Dive, which is Tabs having done Fuegoleon dirty. Must protect. Canon is doing Fue dirty. Fue is my poor little meow meow (kinda) /lh

He is genuinely a good guy. He wants the best for the kingdom, and its people. He's someone who always tries to do the right thing, and works for it. He puts in the effort and the hours, and really, really, tries hard. I just want to kiss his forehead and tell him that it's okay to take a break at times too. Because he must be tired. Physically, emotionally, and mentally. And still he tries, and continues forward. With the stubbornness of a lion.

He's handsome! <3

Thank you for coming to my TedTalk ^^

#anon flamelets #fuegoleon vermillion #black clover #fire vermillion month #this fits the theme of the month so why not tag it as such #thank you for the question!

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raspbeyes · 1 year ago

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A Long Winded Attempt to Understand Korekiyo (A Korekiyo Analysis)

How did i get here... (Why do i like this guy)

So cards on the table, i knew of korekiyo's whole creepy vibes far off in advanced before i ever touched the game. nothing in specifics, but i did go into v3 knowing korekiyo reeked of controversy in the fanbase. that resident creepy guy that stranger danger warns you of.

and yeah during my first playthrough of v3, to say i was distrubed puts it lightly. not only was he jammed into a pretty anti-climatic trial 3 (wow ur telling me the guy who started the seance MAY IN FACT be the one able to use it for his own nefarious reasons WOWOW), i was deeply distrubed by this man's blatant disregard for any human diginity or empathy.

only to see that somehow people liked him?! i chaulked it up to those people who just enjoy fictional serial killers, and since i dont enjoy that trope much, i left it that

so how did i end up late at night writing however long this post is going to be trying to analyze him

beats me but lets do a little superficial list for funsies before delving into more critical analysis territory :D

Kiyo can be kinda cool B) (in my subjective opinion)

His interest in anthropology is pretty cool and i like whenever he contributes his own musings about human customs and such. as disconnected he does seem from human life, there is an interesting paradox with his talent relating to observing human life. moreover, there's always something so amusing seeing such a collected character becoming excited over his interest, such as during fte and his talent lab during ch3 :D

small note, but there is something endearing during the ch1 investigation in his awareness of being the "creepy" one of the group. it shows his awareness of himself which idk its funny to me

He has a cool design (Minus the actual outfit for ... uh ... it's very uncomfortable parallels .____.) with him being the few dr characters who have an aspect of androgyny to themselves (aside from chihiro and sakura, but it's more like they conform to the opposite gender role than be in the middle). now while i will address why it gets more problematic, it's neat introducing a male character fully comfortable in showing feminine traits and feels no need to prove his masculinity to himself

initially, with a cast filled with either eccentric personalites like miu, kaito, or tenko to the more brooding characters like ryoma, maki, or shuichi, kiyo comfortabley takes a spot as a seemingly collected head, especially after the loss of kirumi and rantaro

again these are purely subjective, but now onto using a braincell >:)

tw: mentions of inc*st, grooming, and abuse

please click off if these topics cause discomfort to you

"I thought he would be popular"

Did you know that one of kodaka's favorite characters is korekiyo and that he was shocked by kiyo's lack of popularity

source: https://kaibutsushidousha.tumblr.com/post/187409893464/artbook-data-writer-team-interview

Kodaka: To me, the most unexpectedly unpopular character was Korekiyo Shinguuji, not Hoshi. I mean, his uniform is awesome and his unstable relationship with his sister feels like a classic underground movie. Shinguuji is one of my personal favorites and I thought he would be popular. But the people playing the game called him “gross”

Which ... is weird especially considering the pretty abysmal character assassination near the end of kiyo's screentime in the game. Compared to prior chapter 3 killers, who usually tend to be the least sympathized for their double kills and very self-interested motives (celestia's being greed and mikan's being devotion for one person over her classmates ... and maybe lust idk??), kiyo ranks one of the worst. not just stopping at being a serial killer, he does it all for the love he feels for his sister.

Like idk about u but i would have just stopped at the serial killer part (which is an insane sentence for me to write lol)

But i think that it does make a bit of sense for kodaka's shock, as once u shift the perspective to being a writer, kiyo's character concept starts to make sense.

See i think when we consume stories, espeically linear stories, we have the subconcious assumption that the story beats we encounter had been created in that exact succession. We assume the writer creates the story in the exact linear progression of beginning, middle, and end.

but in truth, most creative processes don't work like that. ideas can date from the intialization of a story concept may not get implemented until the middle or even the end of a story. the ironic thing about stories is that even though they are a straightforward experience for the audience, they are all over the place on the writer's end.

so when we encounter the big trial 3 twist of kiyo's true nature, it feels very much like the the writing room also got to this point during drafting and had a conversation like

"Hmmm ... crap, now we gotta put a motive here. any ideas?"

"uhhh .... OH i got it. he's an actually a siscon serial killer who killed for his deceased sister :D i mean he's already creepy so it works"

"hmmm ... any other suggestions ... no? Alright sure let's go with that"

like yeah im sure no one actually thought this happened, but it definetely feels like that on the audience's side. for a character literal last 10% of screentime, the VERY LAST IMPRESSIONS OF THEM, completely make a sharp nose dive is pretty jarring. It's both parts boring because it just proves shady people looking like kiyo always should be suspected as well as shocking to know he was THAT creepy.

but let's actually shift to the possible perspective of the writing team

Amazing Monster, Wrong Genre

So what was the initial purpose the writing team had when conceptualizing korekiyo into the cast?

source: https://kaibutsushidousha.tumblr.com/post/169561747724/artbook-data-korekiyo-shinguuji

(btw shout out to this blog's translations for drv3 supplementary material it helped out a lot!!)

Kodaka: I had already decided to make chapter 3 feel like a Japanese horror movie, so I need a character who were familiar with nursery songs. As you presume, I decided to have a Super High School Level Anthropologist to fill that job.

From my understanding, it seems that in early on, kodaka wanted to have a horror theme for his new game's chapter 3. and that suddenly fully recontextualizes kiyo in this narrative. kiyo's purpose is to be the bogeyman of chapter 3, utlizing the dr formula of the double kill to heighten the feeling that a bogeyman has been let loose in the school, espeically in its most spooky chapter in the franchise.

we assume (lol im assuming u assumed this hahaha) that kiyo was first thought up as an anthropologist and then along the way of writing chapter 3, he was selected to be written off - since maybe the writing crew had no other major plot ideas for him - and just had a really strange motive stapled on.

but according to kodaka's words, korekiyo was primarily first to be a homage to japanese horror villains. kodaka really wanted this creepy atmosphere to the murder case, likely taking influence to japanese horror and its use of legends and folk tale to give his new ch3 killer a talent that can add to the overall vibe of the trial.

moreover, japanese horror is the largest influence for kiyo's conceptualization, as compared to other cultures' horror, japanese horror emphasizes supernatural and psychological horror most. The supernatural creature of the Onryō pops up a lot in japanese horror media (The Ring is the most popular example i know of, as well as the Japanese folktale, Yotsuya Kaidan), which usually is of a vengeful young woman who met an untimely death. They usually have long black hair that envelopes their face with sharp makeup to show their villainous status. This could connect to Kiyo's long black hair, a trait he shares due to his older, deceased sister.

Kodaka: Maybe it’s just me that loves this kind of underground story character too much. I thought he would be well-received among the fans of Suehiro Maruo’s mangas, but I still haven’t seen any comment saying that so far.

Now i dont know too much japanese horror media (probably cuz american lol) but Suehiro Maruo's name rang alarm bells in my head. To those out of the know and too lazy to search up, Suehiro Maruo is a prolific horror manga artist, being the mind behind the infamous book and subsequent anime adaptation, Shoujo Tsubaki. It also spawned the movie adaptation, Midori, which was banned across the world upon its release for its graphic content. This work is quintessential to maruo's works' general themes, centering on the outcasts of humanity, body horror, nihilism in the face of cruelty, and paraphilia.

So yeah ... really for the faint of heart and def would not recommend checking out at night time unless u plan on being an insomniac o__o

But it is very important in contextualizing kiyo if u take into account that Maruo's work may have been a major influence.

Maruo's works aesthetics can already be connected to kiyo's design: Korekiyo's military outfit is very reminscent of showa-era outfits, a time period that Maruo's work takes heavy influence from. The bandages wrapped around kiyo's arms could also be drawn from maruo's interest illustrating physical deformities.

However, it goes deeper when u take into account of kiyo's own ... twisted love that defines his character. maruo's work depicts a lot of disgusting acts of "desire" (desire is an understatement), displaying the horrors of humanity to the reader. the writing staff may have noticed this attribute and thought that adding such an aspect to their own horror character could increase the groteque factor.

it can come across as the writers' own weird reasoning to just insert inc*st into this random character (tho im not at all defending whatever the hell was going on with the monokubs in ch4 ugh), but under this context, it seems more like the writing team wanted to replicate the horror maruo's work evokes. i mean, while maruo's work has obviously drawn criticsm for it going too far, there still are fans of his work who defend it by saying it is in the horror genre, so what do you expect?

so we have general japanese supernatural and Maruo's work, but there is one final ingredient to our kiyo character stew (hahaha get it cuz ... his exectuion ... melting pot hahah... ill see myself out) So moving across the ocean, we arrive at the classic American horror movie, Pscyho from 1960. Specifically to the horror movie's antagonist, Norman Bateman.

And yeah, the parallels between Korekiyo and Norman are very obvious.

Both are serial killers with quiet outer personas

Both have a split personality, specifically a feminine persona, that drives their killing sprees

both have inc*stuous (for norman, it is more implied and more overtly abusive) with the sole, older female figure in their life (kiyo's being his older sister, while norman is his mother)

And to prove that norman bateman directly inspired the writers during the creative process, the villain of the light novel spin-off, Danganronpa: Kirigiri, is called Norman with the practically same character concept from the 1960 film. And the writer of this light novel? No other than Danganronpa V3's co-writer, Takekuni Kitayama.

So what did this deep dive into korekiyo's character concept prove? really it is just to show that no, the inc*st wasn't this last minute character shift but something that is, whether we like it or not, the core of kiyo's character. kiyo is a monster, and thats the reason kodaka loved writing him. it is similar to why people enjoy horror antagonists. they are these interesting character studies that are worth deep diving into the worst of humanity and to watch how the tragedy of how this villain is formed.

in a sense, like how kiyo is obssessed with observing the beauty of humanity, kiyo's conceptualization is about the supposed audience is observing the horror of humanity seen through kiyo.

but there's a bit of a monkey wrench in all of this.

kiyo is a horror character stuck in a danganronpa game, which according to wikipedia is "a mix of adventure, visual novel, detective and dating simulator elements"

whoops

Danganronpa is a game, which if u haven't checked ... is about not knowing about the murderer that might be standing next to u, hence the "detective elements". So when you have this super cool, totally spooky character that you really wanna put into your new murder mystery game, you kinda run into the problem that you cant reveal he's this terrible person from the start.

Which is what causes Kiyo to go cold turkey for the first two chapters. they couldn't just reveal him to be a serial killer right away, otherwise the audience will say korekiyo is just another, less subversive genocide jill clone. but korekiyo is a horror character, who only work when the horror about them is revealed right away. watch any horror movie, and you would be pretty upset if the monster is revealed in the last 10% of the movie. while that makes sense for a mystery novel's culprit, it can't work for the horror homage kiyo is meant to be. horror works when the antagonist has a strong horrifying prescense that adds pressure to the mc. kiyo doesn't do that because he can't do that.

not to mention the "dating sim elements". the writing staff dont just have to find a way to fit kiyo into the unsuspecting cast, they also have to make him "likeable" to some players to consider him an option for free time. its where those superficial aspects of him that i enjoy come into play. some players enjoy those traits and as the dating sim formula suggests, will become attatched to kiyo in a positive way.

.... which only further ruins kiyo's horror set up. it is the root of the issues regarding korekiyo's character and what makes me liking him so complicated. kodaka and the team really wanted to have a culprit similar to their favorite horror media to slip into their ch3 mystery set-up. i bet writing his trial 3 breakdown was cathartic since they finally were able to write the whole point of kiyo's character from the start. but the problem is that because they had to work in the parameters of a dr game which demands opposing things from its characters (having room to grow and having something likeable/redeemable about them), they created a contradictory set-up for kiyo.

sure he was creepy, but after two chapters of him not doing much except showing that its the way he chooses to express himself, it felt to me that dr was trying to send a message to not judge a book by its cover. And thats a fine message, but it never was something the writers intended, so when they actually implemented their idea, the whole point of korekiyo's charcter become lost in translation.

Side tangent: ... the gender thing

(honestly idk how to feel about this section but this is more of my opinion and id love to hear anyone's take on this point)

Now dr has a messy track history with gender (oh boy im talking abt gender now oof). while chihiro and sakura both are extrememly likeable characters and have traits outside of their gender expression, it doesn't change the fact that the handling of chihiro's reveal and sakura's treatment from the rest of the cast throughout the games can come across as tasteless. though i'd argue that how kiyo's gender is handled is probably the worst.

so kiyo is meant to be a strong allusion to norman bateman, and along with it, him being the "mommy's boy". trope. another similar horror example is Jason Voorhees, the antag behind Friday the 13th. The trope usually features the male character having a controlling maternal figure, usually due to the abscense of a father figure. while it usually is played for laughs (not good either), in horror specifically, it usually is the reasoning behind why the male antagonist is a killer and inhuman. There's a strong implication that because of a strong female influence in these male characters' lives, they grew up unmanly and thus dysnfunctional, worthy of being ostracised for their lack of masculinity.

and while you can argue that ofc the problamatic aspect of the trope will be present with kiyo since he is meant to be a nod to this trope, it doesn't take away from how kiyo is treated compared to other male characters. it feels very much that because of his sister's overbearing influence (i will also get to her later), kiyo's understanding of himself has become warped, so thus his gender expression is called into question.

for one, he is the only masc character during argument Armament to have his defeat sprite sexualize him. now while all argument armaments seem to be the point to sexualize characters (unfortunetly ....) look at how kaito is potrayed compared to kiyo and the framing of their defeat sprites shows the difference. kaito still is shown standing and emphasizes how wounded he is, but because of kiyo's feminine nature, it is somehow okay for him to be potrayed in a position that emphasizes his weakness.

moreover, kiyo's androgyny doesn't seem to be a seperate part of his identity but rather all a memento to his deceased sister. he mentions that his uniform is selected by his sister, and he had chosen to grow out his hair also for his sister (though that was revealed in the spin off manga, which aren't exactly canon but it falls in line with how kiyo is written). Instead of his gender expression being something he chooses to do, it is because of his very toxic love for his sister. it feels like they had to justify his androgyny, which diminishes the value it has.

He wears makeup not because he wants to but because his sister persona wants to. Yes, it is because of him being a norman bateman refrence but it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that kiyo is demonized for being feminine.

"Apologize, apologize, apologize"

but okay, if he is meant to be the norman bates character, there is no evidence to show that kiyo's older sister was abusive ... except ...

I remember when i initially finished v3 and saw posts online about korekiyo, i was a bit baffled by him being a supposed "victim". nothing from kiyo's dialgoue ever implied that he felt mistreated by his sister. he's literally in love with her, how could he possibly be abused by her?

though isnt that the red flag right there? if kiyo was abused, he may not have known due to his infatuation. So time to do a deep dive about kiyo's sister.

We don't have much time with "her" (Kiyo's sister persona), so whatever we do get of her has to be chosen to effectively convey her who she is in such a short amount of time. Though it is not directly kiyo's sister, it likely is the entry point we have to understand how kiyo viewed her.

So when does his sister persona manifest? It happens right after kiyo starts to breakdown when kaito claims it is all clear how angie's murder was planned out, likely from realizing that he is practically caught at this point. Kiyo for the first time has lost composure in the game (in line with most trial 3 culprits) , with his sister interuppting then.

Sister persona: Sweet Korekiyo, calm yourself ...

Out of the gate, kiyo's sister persona's first action is to calm kiyo down, giving him a direct command.

Sister persona: Their words are all hollow. There is no meaning to them. You must teach these ignorant children a lesson.

Right after, kiyo's sister persona discredits everyone around kiyo to ensure he is calm, trying to place kiyo above them all by calling all his classmates children. I will touch back on this later.

Skipping ahead to after kiyo is accused of angie's murder, we get this exchange.

Korekiyo: N-No ... I'm not the culprit ...! S-So ... why is everyone looking at me like I am ...? Why! Why are they!? Why is it --

Sister persona: Calm yourself, Korekiyo.

Korekiyo: Y-yes ...!

Sister persona: You mustn't raise your voice. You mustn't stutter. You mustn't lose composure. You mustn't become flustered. You mustn't waver.

Again, the moment Korekiyo starts to lose his composure, his sister persona steps in to command him to stop. Remember, out of anything the writing crew could have written for korekiyo's sister, it was her few first lines where he gives command after command to korekiyo. And we see these commands already play out with kiyo prior in the game. He never has raised his voice nor stuttered prior to trial 3 (though i could be misremembering), so him doing so now shows he is stepping out of line of what his sister previously told him, hence why she has to reassert herself.

And Kiyo ofc fully submits to his sister, having regained his compsure right after.

Sister persona: Look at their horrid faces. This sorry lot is not worth agonizing over.

We see here again the sister persona pushing others away from kiyo and placing kiyo above them. Now while this can come off as kiyo indirectly telling himself he is better than his classmates, this is the second time his sister persona says something like this, meaning it had to have been a pattern in their relationship, where his sister would push others away, and in a way, isolating him.

Korekiyo: Y-You're right... Yeah ... You're right.

Aside from how it is clear how Kiyo shows his devotion in his "sister", it also shows how he corrects himself here. When his sister said to not stutter, he initally stutters before fixing it.

Also just hearing kiyo say "yeah" just sounds so weird to me. Idk maybe he's talked more casually prior, but i feel that it is only in this trial does kiyo's speech tend to break up and sound a bit more colloquial. normally i feel he would say yes lol. but i could be wrong

Sister persona: Well said ... Good job, Korekiyo.

Korekiyo: Yes ... thanks.

After kiyo regains his compsoure to claim he won't acknowledge shuichi's accusation, his sister persona compliments him, and again we see kiyo's speech slip to a bit more colloqiual when he says "thanks" rather than "thank you". It could be that he picked up his manner of speaking from his sister as well.

After the closing arguement, we see kiyo still in distress

Korekiyo: Uh ... Uuuhhh...

Sister persona: Sweet Korekiyo, there are times when it's necessary to admit defeat.

Korekiyo: A-Admit...? ... Yeah... Okay ...

But once his sister persona tells him to admit defeat, it takes him a few moments before finally admitting to the crime. It once again displays the level of control his sister persona has over kiyo, being the only way kiyo seemed willing to acquiese.

Again, the writing staff could have written anything here for how kiyo's sister persona would work, but they chose this kind of diagloue for her, where she primiarly praises kiyo, gives commands, and isolates him.

knowing that kiyo's sister grew up sickly and without any human connections, the story kind of writes itself from there.

Without any real friends, kiyo's sister was driven desperate for an ... intimiate human connection, and the only one she had would unfortunetly be her younger brother. Due to her being an older sister, she was very strict with him, but provided him praise and comfort to keep him around her. Furthermore, she would put down kiyo's peers by praising kiyo as better than them. The line where kiyo's sister refers to everyone else as children earlier rings especially strange since kiyo is the same age as everyone there. But it gives off the idea that kiyo's sister (who obviously would be older than kiyo's classmates) called them children to make kiyo feel he is more mature, which holds its own disgusting implications.

I don't think that kiyo's sister inherently meant harm to kiyo, but it is highly likely that in her desperation, she used her power over kiyo for her own selfish needs. It fits right into the tragedy you would see in horror, where the worst of humanity seeps through, culminating into the monster we would see as the antagonist of the fiction.

(Speculative tangent here lol: I think another interesting note is how kiyo's mind seems to break into two whenever he is put into high amounts of distress. I'm not going to engage in the whole "what kind of mental illness does he have" since a) im not qualified and b) i dont even think the writing staff cared tbh but whatever he has, it is clear he has to strict personas when under intense stress. When he was backed into a wall during the trial, kiyo claims repeatedly during both the trial and the arguement arnament that he doesn't know why he is the culprit. It does seem like classic denial from any culprit, but kiyo's is different as he is demanding an answer from his sister to assure him otherwise. he stutters more and can't form full sentences while his sister persona speaks fully and more like the kiyo we are used to. It does feel like he isnt fully aware of his actions, which lines up with him when he says later he lost his mind following his sister's death. To me, Kiyo attempts to emmulate his sister to stay in touch with reality as he viewed his sister as the one in control of his world. so when he can't react properly, his mind splits where his sister becomes very literal in his mind in order to soothe himself. likely due to his overdependence on her, he couldnt image himself seperated from the only human connection he had. all im saying is that his sister is the coping mechanism that a very unstable korekiyo needs in order to stay whole.)

I can fix hi - his writing i mean

So in a very twisted way, I don't hate the decision for korekiyo to have his story center around his inc*stuous love. It definetly took a lot of straining my perspective but i do see the remnents of korekiyo, a monster born from the monsterous actions in his life, working.

but you can't potray such a backstory within the last five minutes of your character's screentime. And especially with how heavy the subject material is, some level of foreshadowing is neccessary in order to feel like this plot detail is treated with some level of respect.

but obviously the writers can't. this is just some one-off trial they just wanted to write to be spooky, not this psychological deep dive into one culprit's backstory. But they should have realized that they don't have the time to properly set this up nor execute it , so i agree with most people when it is best to cut out the inc*st. kiyo's sister should have been set up a bit more, maybe in chapter 2, where kiyo speaks a bit more of how he is influenced by his sister in his wardrobe and his talent, so she is in the back of our minds. But kiyo could refer to her in the present, so the actual twist of chapter 3 is that she is dead and that kiyo has his sister persona.

I think the sister persona makes sense, since it adds to the supernatural theming of chapter 3 and pays off what is beneath his mask. It could be a simpler story of kiyo falling into grief for a sister he admired. Maybe he feels guilt over how miserable his sister's life was, thinking he is responsible for his sister's decline health cuz u know, he probably was a kid when his sister died and kids tend to blame themselves. Really just keep it to be a normal, albeit dependent, sibling love he has, where his actions spawned from grief, not this uncomfortable combination between grief and lust.

But if the writers really were insistent that on writing inc*st so late into kiyo's screen time, i have one last-minute fix.

Its that damn cg that plays in post-trial. you know ... that one which kiyo narrates his love for his sister. The one where we see said romance, and it has this whole flowery look to it. now it can be argued it shows how kiyo is an unreliable narrator, where he has romantisized his relationship with his sister.

but i dont care. its just gross to depict this unhealthy dynamic in such an ... irresponsible way. It is like the dr staff couldnt help themselves, they just had to draw kiyo and his sister practically naked. which like no ... just dont use this as an excuse to sexualize your minor characters AGAIN

In my concept, the image can be replaced by depicting a more grim image of kiyo's relationship with his sister. show her trapped in her hospital bed, sickly and her face obscured by her unkempt, overgrown hair. But kiyo sits close by, his face cupped in her palms, with just the two of them trapped in that hospital room from the rest of humanity, with only each other.

kiyo's dialogue can overall be the same (maybe tweak a bit to show his grief more) juxtaposing his idyllic recollection to the grimmer reality we are presented. Maybe it's not the best change, but what i wish they emphasized was less of the actual inc*st and more of the horror. u know ... the supposed basis of kiyo as a character.

so yeah ... i guess i am a korekiyo fan

Korekiyo is a character that when i say i do like him, it kinda means i like the concept of him and the few parts of him, not the whole disaster we got. i know dr always struggles in fully executing their cast of characters on account that, you know ... most of them gotta die. but i do think that if the writers recongized the limitations and adapted kiyo better for the dr story structure, kiyo may have been more popular like kodaka expected.

i dont need this super large angsty story of kiyo (thats what head canons are for anyway :D ) but what i did need was just a bit more respect given to his story and him as a character. not saying you can't give kiyo any moments of comedic relief (i think because they couldnt make him too obviously evil at the beginning, the writers ended up making him a kind of comedic character in how over the top creepy he is, which i think works), but dont give the audience such a last-minute character reveal that could break just about any character, regardless of how far back in advanced the reveal was planned.

anyway i dont have any proper ending for this and i have been writing for 3 hours so yeah ty for reading if u read this far :D

#danganronpa #danganronpa v3 #drv3 #drv3 korekiyo #korekiyo shinguji

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asachuu · 1 year ago

Text

A lot of people are talking about Arthur’s age right now to the point even I know about it from under my rock, but instead of stating the obvious and simply assuming everyone is in on everything already, I’ll just ask this: what is actually so unbelievable about him being 27? I’ve heard folks say that it would mean he would be 15-16 at the time of joining his organization, which is indeed correct, but somehow, this comes as a surprise or something unacceptable, and I don’t understand why? The two literal fandom favorites, Dazai and Chuuya, met at fifteen years old when one was a mafia member already and the other joined at the same age, and no one seems to find that unbelievable?

Anyway, since I have my two cents on this matter, I have to shove the rest of this under the cut, but please bear with me here.

I presume people are mostly shocked for that reason, though do correct me if I’m wrong— I do see how it could be inconceivable to think of his whole entire background, memories, memoir and so on as being attributed to a 15-19 year old instead of someone far older, but if that’s due to any other reason than it simply not meeting expectations thanks to some former headcanons, I’m not too sure why. Obvious Fifteen parallels aside, it’s not as if BSD is some light-hearted series where characters going through incredibly harsh events we cannot even imagine have to be of legal age and in perfect circumstances to be able to handle it— I suppose some could be wondering about that aspect, but it would match up with the whole feel and plot of the story, and no part of it feels out of place. I’ll admit I used to believe Arthur was 36-37 at the time of his death as I didn’t know of his age either, but upon seeing he was a decade younger, I didn’t exactly think it to be nonsense for the sake of him being “too young”, and not to mention, this would also mirror his IRL counterpart, being 16 at the time of meeting Verlaine— which you absolutely could say is too young, considering the entire story between them, but it did happen, and BSD is based on the real-life authors after all— so I don’t see any argument against this which truly makes sense, all things considered.

That aside, I will say that Arthur’s canonical age specifically matters to me, unlike some other characters’ ages, and perhaps my reasoning could be a shared one that contributes to some of this confusion, and that is because it does change the perspective of Fifteen/Stormbringer to quite an extent. I had a whole post drafted about this already a week ago, but it seems to be even more relevant now, so I’ll just throw a part of it here and the rest in a reblog to not derail too much.

In my opinion, if one is to read Arthur’s memoir from Stormbringer, it feels much different to think of it as written by an adult as opposed to a teenager, purely because of its content— the character who has no family to return to, no loved ones or friends or even personal feelings he is allowed to have due to his job, the one who is overjoyed to finally have a partner whom he could make any difference to and who is already prepared to be forgotten after his death anyway, is not actually fully grown up, which maybe some are having a hard time accepting, I’m not too certain.

To me, this view on the story is indeed a lot sadder, especially if one is to consider his only partner betrayed him at 19 instead of whatever other theory could be in place, alongside all else I won’t be mentioning here as I believe I wrote a long enough essay about those two as is, but I don’t think any of it is strange or odd-sounding. If I may, in my personal opinion, I actually believe it makes far more sense, and not because it once again would align with his IRL counterpart even here— no, rather considering his behavior in Fifteen of desperately trying to find a way to remember his best yet only friend, likely because he hadn’t had anyone by his side from such a young age and clearly latched onto the first person he could have had alongside him, which could be a fully applicable theory even if you hadn’t seen the pair in any unrequited romantic contexts that could have been his motive. Does it make the story far more sorrowful? Yes. But does it make the story nonsense and unbelievable? Absolutely not. At this point, I would be so much more surprised if he wound up actually being 37 as I and what I suspect is a decent amount of others guessed at first, because in that case, I would somewhat understand the other side to my arguments— I still wouldn’t agree with them as I never did, even in the past when I didn’t have any extra information, but I could potentially see where they’re coming from at the very least.

I’ll just briefly acknowledge that perhaps some saw the memoir implying Arthur being more of Paul’s mentor at the time, being much older and wiser than him as would be expected, but I don’t think this was ever anyhow highlighted in the novels to make it clear that Arthur could be considered as such entirely— it was only said he would be the one to raise him, which I admit would not leave me assuming the given character is 15, but all things considered, it still aligns with everything above. I also have to acknowledge that in Fifteen, he is referred to as an “older” member of the Port Mafia, but I believe that refers to the eight years he spent in it, and was not meant to be an indicator of his actual age at the time, although compared to Chuuya and Dazai back then, perhaps 27 could indeed be seen as older in a very relative sense. Still, neither of these things are a direct contradiction to his supposed age, and while I’m not here to “prove” he’s 27 or 37 or whatever else one could assume, since I don’t have any other source of information other than the S3 guidebook and don’t have any reason to come up with alternative theories, hence why I choose to trust it unless official sources state otherwise, I’m only here because it surprises me how many people are shocked by this, as if many other characters in BSD weren’t in the same exact age range at the time of drastic or serious events happening around them/to them. I assume that, for some, this is merely something which goes against their personal headcanons or is just wholly unexpected, with nothing more in-depth sitting behind it, at whom this post is not aimed whatsoever, but I saw some saying it doesn’t even fit into canon at all, which…how, exactly? Because I don’t see it at all.

#text post #bungou stray dogs #bsd fifteen #bsd arthur rimbaud #randou #bsd stormbringer #bsd storm bringer #asachuu

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ad-hawkeye · 1 year ago

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You can tag this under 50 Shades, but after I read this post from Hoyolab, hoyolab (.) com/#/article/19978642/, if this is true, I am very disappointed about this direction, though it is one I've seen coming. That being said, you've given your thoughts on the writing. In your ideal world, where would the cards post 2nd anniversary have gone, if you had to keep the general situation/environment, but could change up everything else about it?

holy fuck, the way i actually agree with everything in this post. here is the link for those curious, it's a fantastic read tbh.

a few of us in our tot discord have discussed this as well. here are a few brief snippets below.

sorry for the incoherent mess of thoughts below, words are Not coming easy HAHA.

but yeah... like the post said, barbie is a very good way of putting it.

i used to have the same issue with luke. i'm not a huge fan of characters being good at Too Many Things, especially when there's no flaws to balance it out. it really pulls me out of the story. so like. the more you try to impress me with a character, the less impressed i'll be. which. is why i haaaate artem's newer cards.

see, the thing is, the whole reason why i liked artem in the first place is because of how he felt like the down to earth option. he wasn't the childhood friend/undercover agent/detective/stem genius, he wasn't a ceo and son of the richest family in stellis, and he wasn't literal royalty. he was just a lawyer who worked with rosa. he was bad at talking to people. he was a bit of a homebody. he was LAME. completely inexperienced in romance. he was good at his job, but it was obvious he put all of his skill points into being a lawyer and no where else. his abilities with shooting and cooking were both important aspects to his character, but the skills hoyoverse added beyond that just baffle me.

he wasn't cool, but he was kind and genuine.

ever since second anniversary, there has been absolutely no consistency to artem's character whatsoever.

neil gets mentioned less and less even though he was a major part of artem's life AND character. neil was his father figure, since his parents were rarely, if ever, around. and yet, in recent cards, tot constantly goes out of its way to try and convince us artem's parents did nothing wrong. to add to that, we're lucky if neil is even mentioned.

in earlier cards, it was very clear artem was grieving neil's disappearance (see: entwined fate). it was also clear artem's childhood circumstances were extremely lonely and caused him to try and brush off the neglect because he didn't want to stress out his already busy parents (see: loving memories and his dreams of childhood sr)! earlier cards also hinted at traumatic events and a fear of firearms due to how dangerous neil's job as a lawyer was (see: focus fire).

but for god knows what reason, newer cards said well! fuck all of this! artem no longer gives one single shit about neil! also? honestly? the writers seem confused and disoriented by artem downplaying his childhood issues and just made it so he truly Had no issues with his childhood. which. ok. i guess.

in recent months, we have not had one single card where rosa and artem sit down to talk about how artem feels about neil's disappearance. one single card where artem even openly addresses any traumatic experiences. or emotional neglect in childhood.

remember when focus fire mentioned that a disgruntled mafia member held him and neil at gunpoint because he was pissed neil put everyone else in the gang behind bars?? no?? yeah, me neither! because it's never mentioned again! old tot content implies it was incidents like these, the general emotional neglect from his parents, and neil's disappearance that contributed to artem's closed off personality. but man, fuck that! for some reason!

this doesn't even touch upon artem's romantic and sexual inexperience, which has also been entirely undone. he's a sex god now, i guess.

and let us not forget how artem has learned and forgot the same lessons like, several times. artem did we not learn why jealousy and possessiveness are bullshit in atmospherics, por una cabeza, etc...??? are we really back at this again? and it's not even being addressed as a character flaw anymore? okay! okay. fine! whatever.

but okay. i'm getting off track. you asked me an entirely different question! where would i have liked to have seen the cards go? i think the cards following second anniversary are so... well, nothing that you could probably swap out the plots and avoid losing anything of importance.

honestly, i think artem's cards would have shined the best if they stuck to his original character. so when considering the confines we have now:

artem is extremely emotionally repressed. it'd take time for him to come out of his shell. and his early dating cards do begin like this! it's very endearing! several cards could focus on this progression as he becomes more comfortable and relaxed with rosa. progression into being engaged. living with someone for the first time. please.

rosa and artem's dynamic has like, vanished in recent cards. which is a goddamn shame, because their more comfortable dynamics in his railroad, revisiting youth, and snowfallen secrets cards are so charming! they joke around! artem's sense of humor pokes out! they act like real PEOPLE! they're silly! they're nerds! they're equals! i'd keep this dynamic instead of it just being artem flipping back and forth between sex god and "yes i will do whatever you want [insert player name here]"

neil. please, can we focus on neil. what being a lawyer means to artem. how neil influenced that. how artem feels about neil being gone, how artem feels about neil's possible betrayal of the nxx?? he could always have an arc of going through the stages of grief, or learning to look at things through a new lens. being sad neil won't be around for milestones. etc.

the incidents implied in focus fire. okay, being held at gunpoint is pretty uhhh fucking traumatic. did any other events happen bc of neil's status? his parents' statuses? is this why he is so emotionally repressed? is this why he takes the law so seriously?

his parents. can we stop acting like his parents did nothing wrong. please. his parents used to be portrayed under the "well meaning but ultimately very flawed" light, which i adored. it was grey. it was human. maybe artem could learn that it wasnt right of his parents to be so nonexistent in his life. his parents can still love him and make mistakes. maybe he could rebuild his relationship w his parents? maybe once he realizes what he went through wasn't normal, he can be angry, and work through it. idk! anything! please!

more focus on rosa. her studies. her exams. anything. her family. her past. her hobbies. her teaching artem something. rosa talking about her issues. pelase. Please.

it truly feels like his original writers got swapped out, and the new ones have no idea what artem's charm was in the first place. they have no idea how his character even works, so they're just desperately trying to attach Cool Hobbies to him bc they think he's more boring than the other boys when like. that's the fucking point, that IS his charm.

gosh this was so long and i'm sorry if it's like. UNREADABLE or if i totally missed the point but this was like. Freeing to type out. thank you for reaching out anon, it turns out i had more thoughts than i expected!! hope you're having a lovely day! : )

#tears of themis #artem wing #tot critical #fifty shades of artem #a lot of these started as nitpicks but w the newer cards it just keeps piling up and getting worse!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAA #feel like SHIT want entwined fate and focus fire back!!!!!!!!

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