#oh how I love being a pro sylki

[messrmoonyy]

The official Loki novelisation confirming Loki is in love with Sylvie has truly made my day

[nerdby]

I'm gonna get hate for this, but I just have to say I do not get how anyone can see Loki and Mobius's relationship as anything more than a casual friendship. Especially after I rewatched the first season and all Mobius does is insult Loki, talking down to him condescendingly, and reminding Loki constantly of the fact that he is an untrustworthy villain. That doesn't change until like episode five, and there's only six episodes.

So I'm just gonna say this again: Fetishizing queer men is homophobic, and Loki being in love with a woman does not negate his bisexuality and does not make him any less queer.

I also want to clarify that I am not pro-Sylki. I don't love the ship or hate it. I think it's a flawed metaphor for self-love, but also an interesting nod to the source material -- Young Avengers (2014-2015) and Thor: Journey Into Mystery (2011). Incestous relationships are also a solid element of the horror genre--

Psycho (1960)

Bates Motel (2013)

The Hills Have Eyes (1977/2006)

Flowers In The Attic (1987)

OldBoy (2003)

And those are just the examples that I can think of off the top of my head. So, to me, the Sylki ship is anything but romantic. It's tragic because when a consensual incestous relationship develops between two people it's because of shared trauma and a sense of isolation that makes the people feel like no one outside their family could ever understand them enough to love them in a romantic sense. So self-loathing, I guess?

But it just grosses me out to see people fetishizing queer people. Especially because it's something that I as a bisexual have to put up with a lot.

And like, seriously, if you're a straight woman who has ever complained when someone's made a joke or comment about you exploring the possibility of being with another woman, you're a hypocrite.

"Oh, well they did it first!"

That's your defense -- what, are you five?

That doesn't make it okay.

Y'all can say I'm starting drama or whatever. I don't give a shit. If you're getting defensive over this post then there's a reason for that and you might wanna do some introspection. I've been keeping this to myself, okay, but I had to say something before my fucking head explodes cause it's not okay.

No one should be fetishized, regardless of their sexuality or gender.

Queer people are not sex toys.

[darklinaforever]

"For Sylki is obvious: toxic, toxic and they're basically the same person"

Is it crazy how people can be so off base ? I don't know in what aspect Sylki, who actually bring out the best in each other is supposed to be toxic… ?!

This word is used so much today without people seeming to understand the definition, that's when same crazy…

Oh and the delusion of Sylki being the same person, is, I already explained, completely false.

The series and the creators have been very clear on this subject, yet people persist in saying the opposite which annoys me deeply.

Here is my post where I dismantle this idea of ​​Sylki being the same person :

In it there is even passages which roughly explains how Sylki is a good relationship :

Then I forgot to specify it in this post, but as much as Sylvie helps Loki to accept and love himself, the opposite is also true with Sylvie who opens up much more to the fact than her basic identity is that of a Loki when they are both facing death in episode 4 (while wondering what it really means to be a Loki). Essentially, she no longer internally denies this part of herself, without ceasing to be the person that she chose to be : Sylvie.

I would like to understand how this relationship is toxic ?! Once again, I'm tired of seeing people use this term loosely, simply because they don't like a fictional relationship. Is the Sylki relationship complicated ? Yes. Undeniably. But complicated doesn’t mean toxic.

It's like people who insist on saying that the Sylki romance is not the center / driving force of the plot… :

"I just wanna talk about the show without seeing 16379490405 posts about how “uwu he loves him/her so much, he/she is his new glorious purpose 🥹”. Like. That is SO NOT the point of the show, guys."

When it is in fact the case, the series shows it the contrary, and the creators confirm it.

Loki is in love with Sylvie and their romantic relationship is the fucking center / driving force of the plot, confirmed again by the creators themselves. The Sylki romance is the heart of the story, whether you like it or not. (Most of the interviews from season 1 and 2 will confirm this. Even if I am of the opinion that in season 2 they actually put this relationship aside, with the character of Sylvie... Probably because negative reviews about it in recent years)

Also... Sylvie was literally compared to Loki's new glorious purpose in season 1, in a fucking dialogue from episode 5, and yet the antis or the neutrals still make fun of the pro-Sylki for daring to say, that indeed, Sylvie was in some way Loki's new glorious purpose. As if films were being made when it was literally in a dialogue from season 1 ?!

I mean, Loki absolutely wants to return to the TVA, and we spectators know that it is to find Sylvie. (The last thing he did before ending up there, was literally trying to confess his feelings to Sylvie...) Much more than bringing down the Time-Keepers... Like he said later, he would go where she goes.

Even though the other Lokis don't know why our Loki want to return to the TVA so badly, when one of them asks if Loki wants to return in it because he left his glorious purpose there... and Loki replies that is something like that... What do you think that means ?!

Loki's glorious purpose in season 1 was simply Sylvie, whether you like it or not. Damn, once again it’s literally in the dialogue ! What ?! You think Loki just wants to return to the TVA to bring down the Time-Keepers and have his own time stream to control ? When Loki says that in truth he has no idea what he will do and that he and Sylvie could figure it out together ?!

This dialogue on Loki's glorious purpose is even essentially paralleled with the suggestion that Sylvie's only good memory is Loki... Personal questions that they are asked in the same episode to which they respond vaguely and to which only the viewer can understand the answer...

But no, I imagine that all these people who think they are more intelligent think that the only good memory of Sylvie is something off-screen never mentioned, and that Loki's glorious purpose is only to play the hero and become king...

Also, I don't see why I should moderate my comments and clarify that all of this is my interpretation to avoid offending people.

They do not hesitate to assert their opinion as the right one in a condescending and or downright rude manner.

I understand that everyone is free to have their opinion on a fictional story, but after a while, that doesn't mean that every opinion is really valid in the canon story, especially when there is nothing to support it. I'm tired of seeing antis and neutrals shaming people who really understand the story being told and its messages.

Because yes, once again whether you like it or not, Sylki is not the same person, incest / autocest / selfcest. Sylki is a romance, which is the very heart of the story of the series, and yes, in season 1, Sylvie was associated with Loki's glorious purpose. All this, I maintain, are facts, and not fucking interpretation.

And probably the thing that annoys me the most is everyone who dares to put their clearly denigrating opinions in the tag dedicated to Sylki, instead of the anti one. Honestly, don't you have anything else to do ?! Do you think you are mature ? Clever ? You are just pathetic.

[where-theres-smoak-2]

"For Sylki is obvious: toxic, toxic and they're basically the same person"

Is it crazy how people can be so off base? I don't know in what aspect Sylki, who actually bring out the best in each other is supposed to be toxic… This word is used so much today without people seeming to understand the definition, that's when same crazy… Oh and the delusion of Sylki being the same person, is, I already explained, completely false. The series and the creators have been very clear on this subject, yet people persist in saying the opposite which annoys me deeply. It's like people who insist on saying that the Sylki romance is not the center / driving force of the plot… When it is in fact the case, the series shows it and the creators confirm it . Also, Sylvie was compared to Loki's new glorious goal in season 1 in a fucking dialogue and the antis always make fun of the pro Sylki to say that indeed Sylvie was in some way Loki's new glorious goal. I am literally angry with these people after seeing their message mistagged with the sylki tag…

Yeah I do think antis like to throw out these buzzwords like toxic, inc*st and the newest one I've seen is them saying sylki is ab*sive. That one in particular always leaves me puzzled because they never elaborate to explain in what way sylki is supposedly ab*sive and also they ship him with a guy who held him prisoner in season 1 and put him in a time loop where he was kicked in the balls and punched in the face repeatedly, so apparently by their reasoning sylki is ab*sive because reasons but their ship isn't? (To be clear though I don't think either relationship is ab*sve just pointing out that their statement is more than a bit hypocritical.)

The whole 'but they're the same person' argument is getting a bit tiresome, especially as writers etc have addressed it and said they aren't, yes they used it to send a message about self love, but that wasn't the defining aspect of their relationship, I feel like antis have tried to boil their relationship down to that one aspect of them being variants of each other when really their relationship is a lot more complex than that. I would also argue that as much as Loki loves Sylvie for the ways she is similar to him, he loves her more for the ways she isn't the same as him. He loves her for who she is as her own person not because she is the same person as him, as much as the show and fans joke about him falling in love with himself, the show has made it clear that they had very different lives, different ways of doing things, different views and even different personalities.

Another buzzword that gets thrown around is queerbaiting, this idea that the only reason L*kius isn't canon is because disney and marvel are either too scared to show lgbtqia+ representation or because they hate the lgbtqia+ community and so will never show a gay couple. Which is just false. Marvel and Disney have shown and written characters of different sexualities and identities into their newer projects. Loki and Sylvie are bisexual, that was clearly stated. Valkyrie is also bisexual, it was confirmed in love and thunder that the valkyrie who died protecting her in the hela flashback was her girlfriend. America Chavez in Multiverse of madness had two mothers. Phastos a main character in Eternals had a husband and child and honestly was one of the most beautiful relationships I've seen in the mcu so far. In hawkeye one of the female larpers mentions her wife. And lets not forget Korg and his partner Dwayne who he made a baby with whilst holding hands over a lava pit. I do think disney need to continue working on their representation but they have already made a good effort of adding more representation into their projects, including more female heroes which was something else they were lacking in the past, but its not going to happen over night and just throwing two guys together because its a popular ship as fan service isn't the way to go, it would be too forced. So if L*kius isn't canon its not because Disney refuse to have representation in their projects, I mean with eternals they lost money because some countries banned it because of the scenes between Phastos and his husband, disney, apparently, were given the option of removing those scenes but they refused. The only reason L*kius isn't canon is because they were never meant to be romantic, the importance of their relationship was based in their friendship. Mobius is the best friend, Sylvie is the love interest.

It is also annoying when they put their posts in the sylki tag, my advice to all sylki shippers there would be to use that block button liberally. It's actually impressive how many accounts I've had to block since season 2 started airing.

But as frustrating as it can be to see, let them stay mad. Like you said we've got the canon ship, we've had amazing statements from everyone with creative control on the show confirming our ship and its importance to the show. So now when I see a post bashing sylki or making some insane claim that sylkis have misinterpreted the show and that really l*kius is the real love, I think well I know they are wrong because the writers and producers said so, and then I move on and leave them to it because ultimately they are the ones that have misinterpreted the show and I'm confident in my ships validity. 🤷‍���️

[littleabriel-blog]

Every one knows how I feel about the ship. And I do agree that the largest problem is the fact that Sylvie is abusive. I keep saying, and will continue to say, that if Loki treated her the way she treated him, the same people who cheer for that ship now would be outraged and would be boycotting Marvel.

But, the selfcest not being "real" thing is a bad argument. That argument might hold water if the series were in the real world. It's not. It's set in a fictional multiverse where doctors become sorcerers, a nerdy man turns into a giant monster when enraged, a man can shrink to a subatomic level size, gods make frequent trips to earth to hang out, and the universe can be destroyed through the power of a few rocks. In that kind of reality, yes selfcest can be very real.

And even though it is fictional, people have a right to be disgusted about it and to express that disgust. Also that selfcest stuff was A) another way to paint Loki as a loser. You know, "oh he's so awful that the only one who will ever be able to put up with him in a relationship is himself, how pathetic" and B) paint him as the narcissist that Taika made him out to be and that Waldron/Herron/Martin continued, even though he didn't exhibit any narcissistic traits in the first 3 movies he was in at all. I mean, just look at a lot of people's reactions..."Of course Loki would date himself!". Gag me. So that aspect is problematic not to mention deeply insulting to Loki as a character.

You're sounding perilously close to the pro-Sylki shippers, who love to use the "argument" that "selfcest doesn't exist!" as one of their weapons to beat down people who dare to dislike their ship.

As for the genderfluid thing....I don't have a horse in that race so I'll leave it up to GF folks to say why it's problematic but I will say that if TVA Loki was truly fluid, he shouldn't have been so "shocked" to meet a female variant. That whole deal was to make Sylvie more special. Made her the only female Loki, and furthermore the superior Loki, in order to further cement her status as a Mary Su--oh, excuse me, a Girl Boss.

But yes, I am more disturbed by how truly awful Sylvie is to him. It is so incredibly one-sided and she is a cold, selfish robot who only expresses three emotions: anger, contempt, and smugness.

I never though I'd find a ship that made Edward and Bella or Christian and Anastasia look good, but here we are.

S*ries/ship related rant incoming

I think this is a bit of a hot take, but… Sylvie being a female “Loki” isn’t necessarily my problem with her. I think with the whole variant thing, it makes sense for there to be variations in sex/gender, abilities, or race as well. It’s the multiverse, they’re not all going to have the same characteristics. Even in the comics, not every variation of Loki has been genderfluid. Some have been just straight up male. Sylvie being female is not any more erasure than Loki’s genderfluidity only existing on a file in the credits, if this makes any sense. She’s only a variant, and doesn’t even claim to be a “Loki”. She’s three preexisting characters mashed into one. She was never meant to be an accurate representation of a female/feminine Loki, they always wanted her to be something different from Loki.

Loki’s genderfluidity was clearly an afterthought for the writers. They strictly see him as male, and thought ‘Ahaha, the fans will love this comics Easter egg on this file!’ when in reality, it should’ve been a bigger part (or a part at all) of his character. It could’ve been really fun to see him in a more feminine form.

There were no plans on Loki presenting in a fluid manner because you have like 7 Loki variants (including a fucking crocodile) who are all male, and are deeply shaken to the core about a female “Loki” existing and they make misogynistic jokes about it.

I feel like there’s a lot of blame on Sylvie about the genderfluid erasure, when in reality, TVA Loki had the same amount of representation if it weren’t for that afterthought of a file. The other variants had the same amount of representation. This is not necessarily Sylvie’s fault for being a female Loki variant, this is due to the writer’s ignorance. If you’re going to be mad at Sylvie for strictly being female, you need to be mad at all the other Loki variants for strictly being male as well.

Obviously I have no love for Sylvie, Sylki, or the series, but I don’t think the issue is her being female.

Also another hot take, I think the fact that people were getting mad at Sylki for being “self cest” is stupid as fuck considering that’s literally fictional and is not a thing that’s even possibly able to be real. Is it weird? Obviously, I wouldn’t ship anything like that myself. Is it genuinely problematic? No, it’s impossible to happen in real life and they are two different characters. Clearly you guys were not in The Legend of Zelda fandom pre BOTW. People were shipping variations of Link left and right, and the most people thought was “Oh yeah that’s weird.” Or “Lol that’s funny af.”

It’s a bad ship because it was fucking written HORRIFICALLY and specifically because the meaning behind the “self cest” is a HUGE misunderstanding of Loki’s character. And it was probably pushed because it turned Michael Waldron on to have his self insert kiss a pretty woman who is technically himself.

It’s bad because the characters (like all characters in the series, besides Loki and that whipped cream) do not have any chemistry. It’s bad because it paints Loki as a “narcissist” who’s always loved himself. It’s bad because instead of having Loki truly discover himself and go on a path to self love, they put him in a stupid ass relationship. It’s bad because Sylvie literally has no love for Loki whatsoever. It’s bad because it seemed VERY one sided. Loki was following her around like a lovesick puppy, and she always looked at him like 🤨

It was so one sided that people were theorizing that Sylvie was Loki’s secret daughter, meaning that there would be no kiss between them in the last episode. How do you fuck up a relationship between two characters so badly, that you have people theorizing about them being father and daughter because they don’t want them to be canon that badly?

I think people are stupid about both of the series ships sometimes. There’s real criticisms to be made about both of these garbage ass ships. They both have Loki mischaracterized to the point of being an OC in order to work. The other person in the ship is always at an advantage over Loki, which would be fine if that’s what people are into, but no one even admits that or recognizes that. People act like both ships are very wholesome, when in reality… both Sylvie and Mobius are very shitty to Loki. Which is why I will be drawing Sylvie x Mobius fanart soon. Stay tuned everyone.