#oh does the ed count as subjective hmm no i guess not i mean in the past it wasnt

[thatsuncleharrytoyouyoungman]

and then god said you will have only the most subjective (meaning there is no or little way to actually prove it through like a blood test or smth) physical and mental conditions and symptoms

[imagining-supernatural]

The First Conversation

Part 14 of Seventy Percent

Series Summary: When you left on your trip to Vegas, you’d planned on letting loose for one last weekend before heading back to reality and getting your affairs in order so your best friend wouldn’t be left cleaning up your mess when your cancer finally ended your life. What you hadn’t counted on was waking up married to a celebrity who has a knight-in-shining-armor complex, connections with an oncologist, and amazing insurance…

Chapter Summary: Jasmin saw the interview with Sebastian and has some things to say

Word Count: 1,198

“Sebastian Stan?!?” Jasmin’s voice yelled over the phone as soon as you said hello.

“Good morning to you too,” you said, amused. Seb looked up from where he was eating breakfast next to you and grinned. Even if your volume hadn’t been up high on your phone, he still would have been able to hear her exclamation. Hell, everyone from Salt Lake to New York probably heard her.

“You’re married to Sebastian Stan.”

“I’m guessing you saw his interview last night.”

“I almost called you at one o’ clock this morning when I saw it online. But then I remembered that you’re not supposed to fly commercial and you would have definitely flown over here to beat the shit out of me for waking you up so early but BABE! You’re married to Sebastian Stan.”

“Yeah. I think we’ve established that.”

Seb motioned from himself to your phone, raising an eyebrow. With a soft chuckle you put your phone down and turned on speakerphone.

“Mornin’ Jasmin,” he greeted.

There was silence for a second before she mumbled a soft holy fuck. “G-good morning Sebastian!”

“It’s nice to finally talk to you,” he said, smiling. “Thanks for your advice on how to deal with bitchy Y/N.”

“You’re fucking welcome. Thanks for taking care of her.”

“You’re fucking welcome,” he repeated her words back at her, tossing you a wink. “She’s not so bad to be around. Makes it easy.”

Another round of silence fell and you could tell she was freaking out over talking to one of her favorite celebrities. So, you changed the subject. “Hey Jaz, I was actually going to call you yesterday, but it got a little crazy.”

“Oh yeah! You had your scans, right?” Her voice seemed normal, at least. But, knowing her, she was still freaking out. Maybe bouncing up and down on her bed. Dancing around. Who knows?

“Yeah. The tumor shrunk a bit.”

“Finally! So it’s working, right? That’s good news?”

“Yeah, it is. Uh, the doctors gave us two options on how to proceed.” You ignored her little squeak when you said the word us. “Since it’s still slower progress than they hoped, we can either get more aggressive or keep going with the current route. Jason and I—sorry, Seb and I” you ignored how she softly repeated Seb like she still couldn’t believe it and Seb’s questioning look at your slip, “—decided to keep going how it is. It’ll be slower progress, but if it’s working, why risk a change?”

“And,” he added, giving you a look that begged an explanation for your Jason comment. Mentally, you added explain why you referred to him as Jason Momoa when talking to Jasmin to your to-do list. “If it stops working, we can always change to the more aggressive option.”

“But it’s gonna work,” she said resolutely. Even in her shock at your husband’s identity, you could still count on Jasmin to be your number one cheerleader.

“Yeah,” you agreed, sharing a smile with Seb. “Yeah, it is.”

He leaned over and kissed your head before standing. “I’m going to go finish getting ready. Sean should be here in about fifteen minutes.”

“I’ll be ready.”

His hand was on your shoulder as he leaned closer to you and your phone. “Nice talking to you, Jaz. Take care.”

“You too! Take care of our girl… Seb.” You had to bite your lip to stop the giggle at her hesitance using his nickname, and a glance at Seb mirrored your face.

“Always. Fifteen minutes, Y/N.”

“I got it,” you said, pretending to be annoyed as you took your phone off speaker. “Now leave me to my girl talk.”

“Holy shit,” she breathed. “Holy fuck.”

“Deep breaths, Jaz.”

“I just talked to Sebastian Stan.”

“He’s not that great,” you said. “I mean, he hates Weird Al so…”

“But he’s taking care of you! Everything he’s done for you! Babe, how are you not freaking out?”

Oh, you were. But for different reasons. Mainly the starting to have more than just friendly feelings kind of reasons. “Okay, fine. He is pretty awesome. More than pretty awesome, actually. But you really need to get over your star-struck-ed-ness. He’s just a guy. Does what any other guy would do. I mean, staying married to a complete stranger so she can use your insurance and stay in your home while she becomes a bitch through her cancer treatments and yells at you for caring and still sticking around. Definitely something anyone would do,” you said facetiously.

“Oh yeah,” she responded in kind. “Sure. Definitely a normal human reaction. Have you kissed him yet? I mean, I guess you kissed him in Vegas, right? Had to have consummated your marriage and all that. But you said you don’t really remember that night so it doesn’t really count and—”

“Jaz! Drop it. It’s not like that.”

“Make it like that.”

“Not right now. I can’t.”

“So you do like him like that.”

“I—I don’t know.” You were carefully choosing your words, knowing that Seb might be able to overhear anything you said and you weren’t in the frame of mind to complicate things. Not when you still weren’t sure why he’d insisted on you sleeping in his bed with him last night. “It’s… I just don’t know, Jaz.”

“Which, in Y/N language, means that you looove him. You want to kiiiiss him. You want to have his baaabies. You want—”

“Whoa! Slow your roll. Let’s not misquote shows, okay? That’s treason.”

“But I’m not wrong.”

“Yeah, you are.” Was that a lie? You had no idea. “I gotta brush my teeth before I leave for the hospital. I’ll talk to you later.”

“Mm-hmm,” she intoned knowingly. “Sure. It’s not like you’re trying to get out of this conversation, or anything.”

“You’re gonna keep this to yourself as long as you can, right?”

You could practically see her nodding. “Yeah. And I’ll let you know if anyone comes sniffing. But Y/N. Remember the great philosopher George R. R. Martin once said, ‘Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it.’”

“No, fuck George R. R. Martin. Unless you get me a real, live, fire breathing dragon, you don’t get to quote his books at me.”

“Then who can I quote at you?”

You considered for a moment, flipping through your mental notebook of quotes until you landed on one. “How about Lev Grossman?”

“Nooo,” she groaned. “Those books are so depressing. Whatever quote you’re about to pull out of your ass is—”

“’If there’s a single lesson that life teaches us,’” you interrupted her, “’It’s that wishing doesn’t make it so.’ So, babe, wish all you want. Won’t make it that hard truth you’re lookin’ for.”

“Go brush your fucking teeth,” she said in the tone of voice that had you imagining an eye roll on her part. “And think about your life choices.”

“I will. And Jaz?”

“What?”

“Love you.”

“I love you too. Even if you are so deep in denial that you might never make it out of Egypt.”

A long groan escaped your through. “That was such a bad joke.”

Fangirl #1 Jasmin is On Board!! lol. But we get a peek into the backstory on the next part.... what do you think is in the reader’s past??

CHAPTER 15: The Backstory

[danganronpa-ea]

Chapter 5 Survivors Free Time Events part 1

So counting this is spoiler and if you haven’t read chapter 5, then please do ready them before you continue on this, this is a warning!

 ALSO A TRIGGER WARNING: One of the Free Time events here is going to mention things like rape and teenager pregnancy, if you are trigger by any of the contents this Free Time Events contains, please tread carefully.

A world where those that didn’t make it or just couldn’t survive the cruel world get a chance here, A world where things are right… A world where death never happen.

 I look around and saw that I was in the see where those dead would usually sit in, I guess this is what it’s like to be dead…

 Well regardless – I gave a sigh as I knew, I could never be around them… I knew I could never be there for them but I just had to, I had to save Sunako-chan if Masa-san try anything and what Haku say… he knew Masa-san in that killing game, he… made good points towards her but then I shook my head.

 I just hope… the others could stop him where I fail but anyway, I look down and saw about 7 buttons; Sunako-chan, Tomoe-san, Miwa-san, Eito-san, Doi-san, Haiiro-san and… Hana-san, the person that was my accomplice in this crime.

 As then I decided to get this over with, as then I push the first button… Sunako-chan.

 She then appears as she looks around then she saw me as shock to see me as then she teared up. “Yo-Your dead, aren’t you?” She asked, as then I gave a nod. “I… am so sorry but I had to protect you and I apologize.” I spoke which the girl look down.

 “I… promise myself to face my memories and never let them go, Big Sis Fuji – I’ll be sure to never forget.” She spoke which I smiled. “Well, that’s good, then… you wish to talk?” I asked which she quickly nod.

 Inoue Sunako Free Time Events!

 Which then me and Sunako-chan began to talk about various things and even change subjects, she seems to enjoy talking to me and I couldn’t help but listen to her active imagination which I had a good laugh honestly.

 Looks like me and Inoue-chan got closer together which is good!

 I took out various crayons and things that can help one draw which I handed it to her. “Hmm, interesting items – this could help with my plans for world domination!” She spoke in a joke like matter, let’s hope that is the case…

 It seems she smiled at me. “Sooo, gonna guess what my lil’ talent yet?” She asked with a huge smile which I try to think it over… she tends to act out and seems to listen to instruction. “Um, how about lil’ Ultimate Drama?” I asked which then she frown for a moment which she look sideways. “Um… no, I don’t really like that talent very much.” She stated which I was surprise with that reaction.

 She doesn’t like acting? Well I guess some kids don’t like the idea of being on a stage. “You don’t like being on the stage?” I asked which she nodded as in a thinking pose. “I guess not, I mean – I just… never really saw myself as trying to get attention or even like being center stage maybe keeping your head low so you aren’t a teacher’s pet is better.” She stated which I was left confused by that statement.

 So she hates being a teacher’s favorite which I blinked. “Still… I figure with how smart you are, I’m sure teachers must favor you for doing quite well, right?” I asked which then she put her hands behind her as moving her feet back and forth. “Well – sometimes but honestly, I rather just not have them touch me or even give me the time of day besides… there are some pretty bad people out there that tend to go after the young ones, plus I do hear mothers tend to push there kids on the stage… I just don’t like that at all.” She spoke which made me wonder about that.

 Which got me to think. “Then… did your mother do that to you?” I asked which she thought it over. “Once but, I just couldn’t handle being on stage – I mean it must be easy for you to get on the stage and be in the limelight, right?” She told me with a huge smile.

 She… seems to be dodging the question or doesn’t seem to like talking about herself at all, that really isn’t good…

Inoue Sunako, Ultimate Child Prodigy FTE: 3/5

 --

 It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 Which then me and Sunako-chan began to talk about various things and even change subjects, she seems to enjoy talking to me and I couldn’t help but listen to her active imagination which I had a good laugh honestly.

 Looks like me and Inoue-chan got closer together which is good!

 As then I took out what look to be candies of all colours and even shapes, I heard they even got different flavors too which I gave to her. “Oooh, something I totally like! I’ll glad take that so thank you!” She thanked me as taking the item.

 As then she had that smile again which I couldn’t tell if she was faking it or not but then she asked. “Well, time for another guess but keep in mind you only get 2 chances then that’s it!” She spoke which I was a bit confused by this.

 “Right then, well… maybe Ultimate Social Studies? I mean you seem to handle speaking with people just fine.” She blinked then her face went a bit red. “I mean, I’m okay with that one but there is someone that’s better honestly, a boy actually…” She stated as looking away.

 Something tells me that this might be someone she has a crush on…

 Suddenly the child looks at me with shock. “He-Hey, don’t give me that weird look! I mean, it’s not like I could ever be with him anyway since he has his eyes on someone else…” She admitted which I blinked as then she sighed. “I mean, the girl he likes is pretty popular in class plus it’s some dumb kid crush anyway, it’s not like he has much reason to like me.” She stated as a matter of fact then I huffed.

 “Hey, I think there are quite a few traits you have that could have boys like you; I mean people might find your intelligence rather nice, your sense of humor could be funny and even if you can get nosey – I do think if given time maybe they’ll learn to like you more.” I told her which she blinked then she still didn’t seem sure.

 I get a strange feeling Sunako-chan was someone that doesn’t want to speak of this crush of hers which then I asked. “Well, maybe you can tell me what you like about this boy?” I asked which she try to think then smiled a little but not by much. “We-Well, he’s really super smart and pretty patient, like even if we cause mischief or trouble, he tends to be quite calm. He really does try to keep everything under control and have quite a good head on his shoulder; I uh… even recall a time he ask if I was okay after my mommy got into a coma since I was still pretty down about it.” She told me which I smiled a bit.

 “From the sounds of it, I could see why you could be crushing on him, he seems reliable…” I stated which she smiled but then it became a frown. “Yep, but… sometimes I can’t help but feel bad when everyone expects from him; he always worries he’ll never meet up to standards, I mean… he already has impressed me enough and honestly if you have expectations place on you – you’ll end up failing in the end…” She spoke which I blinked.

 I guess that would be a reason people would be afraid of that which I spoke. “Then… are you afraid of that too?” I asked which she seems surprise. “Huh?” “You seem scared people would have expectations for you or you feel you’ll fail them, right?” I asked which she went silent then she sighed.

 “Maybe but even then, I… don’t think it matters much – seeing as he already has his eyes set on someone that probably make him happy, besides love is weird anyway~.” She spoke as laughing at that rather… depressing puppy crush story.

 I… wasn’t sure what to say on the matter or even sure how to address this at all…

 Inoue Sunako, Ultimate Child Prodigy FTE: 4/5

 --

 It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 Which then me and Sunako-chan began to talk about various things and even change subjects, she seems to enjoy talking to me and I couldn’t help but listen to her active imagination which I had a good laugh honestly.

 Looks like me and Inoue-chan got closer together which is good!

 I then went to grab a calculator that seems to handle any equations but I’m not sure if Sunako-chan would find this interesting as then I gave it to her which her eyes light up. “Oh gosh, this is something I really really want, I totally want this so bad so thank you, thank you, thank yooou!” She spoke in excitement as then she puts it away.

 She… really seem to like that gift so I’m happy to see that she’s happy.

 As then she gave one straight expression. “So… you wish to give this game one more try?” She asked which as then I started to think it over then I shook my head. “I don’t think so but I did learn quite a bit about you during my time so… I don’t think I’ll play this game anymore if you don’t want to.” I stated which she blinked.

 She sighed then shrugged. “I… guess we can stop, I was personally getting bored of that game and even then the girl I was talking about has a talent that makes everyone follow her and… she’s someone that’s my friend or well, formerly.” She spoke which I seem surprise.

 The girl that the boy she had a crush had a crush on was an lil’ Ultimate talent which then she looks at me. “Like I say my talent isn’t really that special and even then, the lil Ultimate talent she has is one you have in the morning and everyone seems to like it and listen to her, unlike me of course which I don’t mind…” She spoke.

 So there is a class that this girl she sees as her former friend that is good at this class that everyone has… it is…

 -Science

-Home Ed

>Homeroom

 I try to think a class everyone has in the morning then I recall. “Um, Homeroom? I do recall liking that class when I was a kid, is that the lil Ultimate talent your former friend has?” I asked which she gave a first nod.

 “Yep, I mean as say my mommy and her daddy’s company work together in robotics, I tend to spend a lot of time with her and she tends to like my ideas but… she made everyone of our friends hate me due to one idea I had but…” She suddenly went silent as I also went silent, the conversation then she closes her eyes and spoke.

 “But hey, it’s okay! I mean I’m with all of you and honestly, I think that’s what I like! I rather be here in the present and now then focus on the past! I mean, isn’t that what matters in the end…?”

 She spoke as giving me a teary smile, clearly the girl seems to confess something to me and honestly while I couldn’t be sure what to say but… I understand Sunako-chan quite a bit which I suppose if she feels that way…

 No, I’m sure she could still accept those bad memories and try to not be scare of them anymore if she works at it but maybe I’ll tell her later… I’m sure of it.

 Inoue Sunako, Ultimate Child Prodigy FTE: 5/5

 Congrats you have finish up all Free time events with Inoue Sunako; give yourself a pat on the back!

 After that I did talk about other things with Sunako-chan to try and get her mind off the conversation – even if it isn’t much but… at least it’s something, right?

 However even if I’m not there for her anymore, I’m sure she can face those fears with the others…

 Then after a while I decided to press the next button which would be Tomoe-chan’s which then she appears which she looks around then look to me. “Fuji-chan, I… guess you appear in my dream, huh?” She asked which I gave a silent nod. “Yep, which I guess you all figure out what happen, right?” I asked which she went silent.

 “We did, I’m… that Haku really dangerous; he’s able to convince you to go through with this plan of yours but will be sure to stop him.” She told me which I smiled a bit. “Thank you, I really hope you can do that where I failed…” I commented which then she smiles.

 Seems I guess will start a conversation…

 Kimura Tomoe Free Time Events!

 As then me and Tomoe-san began to talk quite a bit and honestly the conversation was pretty interesting and nice, I really couldn’t help but feel engaged with talking with her about recent trends and had fun.

 Seems me and Tomoe-san grew a bit closer…

 I took out some flower-scented perfume bottle which I gave her. “Ah for me, thank you! I’ll gladly take it.” She thanked me as taking the bottle. Seems she likes it so that’s good, suddenly Tomoe-san went quiet again which then she had a serious expression.

 “Fuji-chan, I had wonder something… how was your relationship with your dad before he died?” She asked which I went silent then I spoke up and smiled. “Well my dad tend to be pretty stern and while busy, I think he care for me but I think mom says I tend to get my personality from him which… I guess isn’t too far off, why do you ask?” I stated which she nodded then look the other way.

 Seems she was wondering what to say in this then she sighed. “I see, then that’s good to hear that since I remember our conversation and thinking of how my father was, see my father was a Hope’s Peak Student – his talent works pretty well with my mom, it was the Ultimate Wedding Planner I recall he always loved weddings and had a joy in creating them, he truly was a man that love love, y’know.” She commented which I guess people tend to find there love in various things.

 I smiled a bit. “That sounds like a pretty fun talent to have, you must of gone to them, huh?” I asked which she shrugged. “Not really, some of the weddings were for people I didn’t know but when my dad was around he tends to show me various photos of weddings, couples and how they are set up; I even recall a time he jokingly ask me of what colour of roses he should go for as well…” She giggled a bit recalling the memory.

 I couldn’t help but feel that from the sounds of her and her dad got along pretty well which then she seem a bit sadden by this. “I… even recall a time that I told my dad that if I ever get marry, I wanted him to set up my wedding and… he promises he would which it was before he went on the ship and well… y’know what happen after that.” She say as she went to silent which I was silent as well with a sadden expression.

 “Thinking back on that day, mother… really did change and not for the better, she stop function and while she attended certain events but she never really felt like she was there,” Tomoe-san stated which then she bit her lip and close her eyes. “I even recall a talent show I was in which I ask mom to attend which… she never did, I think it was the first time I actually hated my mother and started to not like her at all… like I get she was hurt and upset that dad was gone but even then, she had a kid to take care of…” She spoke which I frown for a moment.

 I gave a small nod. “It… does seem like she really love you father, has she move on or even try to see other people?” I asked which she shook her head. “No, she never has – I mean she had men approach her before but she show no interest, I guess it shows how loyal she was…” She stated which I gave a nod.

 Something tells me that Tomoe-san is still talking about her mother and even her father as well which from the sounds of it… they seem like a happy family before he passed away and the mother and daughter are having a hard time understanding the other’s prospective but it seems Tomoe-san is trying to…

 Kimura Tomoe, Ultimate Acapella Singer FTE: 3/5

 --

It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 As then me and Tomoe-san began to talk quite a bit and honestly the conversation was pretty interesting and nice, I really couldn’t help but feel engaged with talking with her about recent trends and had fun.

 Seems me and Tomoe-san grew a bit closer…

 As then I took out a decorative box that can carry anything in which then I gave it to her. “Oh, how lovely – thank you for giving this me.” She thanked me which as then she went silent again as trying to think over the situation once more.

 “I’m… still trying to understand my mother, like I get people would be annoyed talking about her and I do need to move on and…” “Tomoe-san, it’s fine…” I stated which she seems surprise by my reaction.

 As then I cross my arms as I spoke. “Look, you’re grieving and mourning which I think people would understand that, which if you ask me regarding how your mother felt… Personally I think it’s more of miscommunication both parts, you 2 didn’t know how to speak if you ask me.” I told her which she seems surprise which then she looks to the ground then wiped her eyes.

 She must be tearing up as then she sighed then gave a nod…

 “Yes, I… suppose your right, I just don’t know what to think or feeling regarding her but even then, I actually when I grew my first set of flowers…” She stated which she laughed a bit as I smiled a bit as she continues. “I think my first set of flowers turn out to be pretty bad, I couldn’t even recall what the flowers were but when I show mother, I couldn’t tell if she felt like I did try or maybe felt sorry for me but I was really please with my work. I think that was a nice memory to have.” She told me with a sad smile.

 As then I thought over for a moment as then continue. “Well maybe she didn’t want to hurt your feelings since you were so proud of them.” I brought up which she shrugged. “Yeah, I guess not but yet again she did snap at the Saionji’s only daughter for stomping on the flowers and then she started to cry… I assume she did that because she got in trouble.” She frown, annoyed.

 I gave a nod, I guess some kids don’t like flowers which then Tomoe-san was thinking. “I mean – my mom work very hard on them and she was being disrespectful, I even recall her saying the flowers were pretty… despite her stepping on them, then she made a cruel comment that if I were a flower; she would just burn it which… isn’t very nice.” She spoke which I was a bit nervous.

 “So… What did you do with that girl?” I asked which she smile as tilting her head to the side. “Well, let’s saying leaving a dead rat on her bed was some nice karma, which yes I did get yelled at but she did start it.” She spoke as if she did nothing wrong.

 Something tells me her and this girl did not get along very well it seem…

 Kimura Tomoe, Ultimate Acapella Singer FTE: 4/5

 --

It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 As then me and Tomoe-san began to talk quite a bit and honestly the conversation was pretty interesting and nice, I really couldn’t help but feel engaged with talking with her about recent trends and had fun.

 Seems me and Tomoe-san grew a bit closer…

 Which then I gave Tomoe-san some decorative sweets which she took them. “Oh my, thank you – Fuji-chan, I love these!” She say as she put them away.

 However as then Tomoe-san gave a sigh as then she spoke. “Fuji-chan, I’m not sure what to say to you for spending so much time with me so I think I’ll say this… thank you for making me realize somethings about my mother and making me realize that we both suffer in a way.” She told me which I blinked.

 “But I… didn’t do much honestly, I just figure I listen to you.” I told her which she was in a thinking. “I… suppose your right, but even then I do think it did help me figure things out and maybe, if we do find Haku – I can move forward with the others…” She told me with a smile.

 I could surely see that Tomoe-san has come to terms with her mother’s passing and then she spoke with certainty.

 “While I still don’t know what my mother thought in her final moments or if I’ll ever forgive Ohta but I know for sure – I’ll try and be there for everyone else, especially Eito-kun and Sunako-chan!”

 It seems that girl was ready to move forward and while her mother is gone, she does seem to be ready for that and even then…

 I did feel a strong bond between Tomoe-san and myself, which I couldn’t help but smile at her resolve.

 Kimura Tomoe, Ultimate Acapella Singer FTE: 5/5

 Congrats you have finish up all Free time events with Kimura Tomoe; give yourself a pat on the back!

 As then we spoke a bit more, about topics and even recent trends that got to enjoy the company of the other…

 But still, it’s nice to hear that after Tomoe-san is going to move forward, making a step in the right direction as then I press the next which was for… Miwa-san, as she appears.

 She began to look around at where she is then she saw me looking at her. “Hello…” I greeted which she frowns. “So… we solve your case and, the fact you came up with a murder plan is what I was not expecting but… I guess one of us would need to take up a leadership position, right?” She asked which I gave a nod.

 “Then, I’ll try and do that… for everyone of those that have died, so thank you for having us work together; Fuji-chan…” She thanked me.

 I guess we should start talking some more…

 Mori Miwa’s Free Time Events!

 We thus began to converse with each other and speak about matters that were important and even things that I couldn’t help but be captivated by her, maybe that’s the perk of a figure skater…

 Looks like me and Miwa-san grew closer…

 As then I took out a cup of hot cocoa which Miwa-san seem happy. “Oh, for me? Well thank you, I do need this.” She thanked me however as then I smiled. “So are we going to skate again?” I asked which she eyed me which she shook her head.

 “I’m sorry but… I’m not in a very good mood, I think it’s mostly after what happen with Hanlon-san, I… started to rethink what I thought of him originally…” She spoke which I look to the ground.

 I did recall that Norman-san felt regret for what he did so… maybe Miwa-san does realize that too. “I mean, he seems to have regret his action – honestly if it were my first coach then he would of ran away like a damn coward…” She stated with anger in her voice.

 Something tells me this coach of hers must be a very bad person which I stare at her. “So… what did your former coach do to you?” I asked which she scowled and spoke clearly. “Here’s the thing… you must not speak of this matter to anyone else… He sexually assaulted me and rape me.” She say to me which my face went pale.

 Miwa-san… was rape, it was pretty hard to imagine it at all and I never heard of this news about her – at most I only recall her having to take a break from skating for a year and even avoided public attention for sometime.

 As then Miwa-san turn away as avoiding eye contact. “It was about three years ago when it happens too, pretty much be nearly a year since I had train with the him; he was someone that I could trust and give me pointers of how to improve on my technique and footing however he tends to get too close and personal…” She paused which I look nervous since I could see why.

 As then she began to hug herself. “I… even recall when it was during one of his drunk fits which suddenly, he punches me in the face and knock me up, likely confusing me for his wife who had the same hair colour as me while I was knock out, which after hours of waking up I realize… the asshole had his way with me.” She stated as shivering, clearly this man was someone I would not like either.

 “He… sounds like a very bad person.” I told her which she glares. “No shit he was bad, and worse I realize that I started to feel sick and discover it when I told him, he ran away… like the coward he is.” She spoke which I blinked. “Wait, he ran away but… why? What happen?” I asked which she look to the ground.

 It seems that there was a reason he ran away. “Well, you know why some men leave and counting my period was running later then normal… it should be obvious what happen, in fact I had to take a break off of skating for a good while after it happen too.” She told me as clearly the subject matter was a bit iffy.

 -Vacation

>Pregnancy

-Lawsuit

 I suddenly went silent as fear soon crept on me when I realize why her former coach ran away which Miwa-san notice the expression on my face. “Seems you figure it out, I had considered abortion at the time but it would cause attention, so I went on a so called ‘vacation’ for a year when I decided to birth the child…” She went quiet which I went silent as well.

 I’m… not sure what to say to do, how would you respond to that or even say since honestly, Miwa-san seems to hold a certain standard for men which… I can’t blame her at all.

 Mori Miwa, Ultimate Figure Skater FTE: 3/5

 --

It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 We thus began to converse with each other and speak about matters that were important and even things that I couldn’t help but be captivated by her, maybe that’s the perk of a figure skater…

 Looks like me and Miwa-san grew closer…

 I took out some postcards and stamps that seem to have some strange ability based on the sender as I hand it to her. “Hm, I think the gift is lovely so thank you very much.” She thanked me as she put it away.

 She seems pretty serious expression, it… seems awkward to ask about skating after hearing what happen with Miwa-san which she didn’t seem in the mood to skate either.

 “So, … Did you tell anyone else about this? I think if Norman-san knew about this then I think he would of stop to realize his action.” I asked which then she shook her head but bit her lip. “I never did, I told anyone what happen since my career as a figure skater would be ruin, and sadly people would start to blame me, I’ve only told a select few.” She told me which got me worried.

 It… must be a personal issue and just the fact that she had to deal with that which then she looks to me with a small frown as furrowing her eyebrows. “So, what happen with the child?” “They are likely with some good people.” She answers quickly as I was surprise. “You see, the only people I’ve told were a select few; my grandmother, my current coach, some doctors which they were pay to keep quiet, the adoption agency and the parents of the child I am going to get birth to.” She explained.

 I really wasn’t sure what to say to her and then she looks to the side. “I even told the parents to not tell the child where they came from, they simply pay me and the affair was kept private and… it’s been 3 years, likely the child in question is a toddler by now.” She spoke as thinking it over which I realize something.

 “Hold on, do you even know what they look like?” I asked which she shook her head. “No, I don’t and honestly I think it’s for the best I didn’t. Even then I’m sure however they are doing, probably they had a way better life then I could ever offer.” She told me which I went quiet which then I asked about.

 As I notice that despite that horrid story, she didn’t seem to have an issue with men. “Well, I’m sure that child is likely being taken care of.” “It’s all I hope for, but anyway after I got back to skating I… started to be cautious of men or behaviors I’ve notice, I didn’t want the same thing to happen if I got a coach which… I did, my current one was saying to be a team manager that train a baseball team to nationals.” She spoke with a small smile.

 It seems that Miwa-san seem happy about him. “I guess you must have trusted him, right?” I asked which she gave a firm nod. “At first, I was honestly wary of him – I didn’t trust him that well and I fear the same thing would happen again but, when I told him when he ask, he… understood my situation and even promise he won’t reveal this information but what he says to me… help me quite a bit.” She spoke which I blinked.

 “What did he say to you?” I asked which then she smiled a bit. “Trust has to be earn, trust between an athlete and a coach which would need to respect each other – As say if you aren’t comfortable around me then I understand, but keep in mind… there are others that would understand if you tell them like you told me.” She spoke which she went silent which she close her eyes.

 It seems that she forgot those words and then had her hands on her chest. “Which, how funny I forgot his words but maybe he’s right… if I told Norman-san what happen or anyone else, but I’m not sure how he would react if he was alive knowing this information.” She spoke which she look to the ground.

 It seems that Miwa-san clearly had trust issues and honestly, I don’t blame her but she does seem to hold a certain standard for people which… is understandable.

 Mori Miwa, Ultimate Figure Skater FTE: 4/5

 --

It was then we decided to continue talking since time did not matter in dreams, correct?

 We thus began to converse with each other and speak about matters that were important and even things that I couldn’t help but be captivated by her, maybe that’s the perk of a figure skater…

 Looks like me and Miwa-san grew closer…

 I then took out some block that is good for sharpening blades or any metal which she seems happy. “Oh, this could help me with skating so thank you!” She thanked me as then she took the item as then she smiled.

 “Fuji-chan, I think after talking with you… maybe trusting everyone wouldn’t be so bad. I was worried I would start to distrust people or think all of them were bad but I can see now I was wrong.” She thanked me which I smiled a bit. “Well, maybe you just needed to be reminded what your current coach told you…” I told her which she laughed a bit.

 I guess she was feeling better and gave a nod. “Yes, I suppose your right – I mean there are still people out there that remind me of my first coach but… I know now that there are people out there that mean no harm and would understand my situation if I told them so… maybe trusting you all would help me.” She spoke as then she declared something that I couldn’t help but feel proud of her to say.

 “Trust in those that trust you, trust in those that won’t harm you, trust in those that are your friends – then that trust will keep you going… I think I should trust everyone and we can work together and be stronger.”

 She spoke as it seems the girl had started to trust me and see me as a friend as then she smiles. “Well, I feel better telling you so… maybe we should try skating again?” She asked which I smiled quite a bit. “Sure thing, let’s go and I think with your help I’ll surely get better~.” I told her which she gave a nod in agreement.

 I could tell that Miwa-san does trust me and I’m glad that she does, I feel a pretty strong bond between myself and the figure skater so I’m glad to hear she’ll trust the others even after what happen.

 Mori Miwa, Ultimate Figure Skater FTE: 5/5

 Congrats you have finish up all Free time events with Mori Miwa; give yourself a pat on the back!

 As then me and Miwa-san got up and decided to try and do a bit more skating, I actually started to get better and even do some tricks, thanks to her help… I had a lot of fun honestly.

 Even if I tripped up and mess somewhere, she gave me pointers to improve and even told me that looking down at your feet would make you trip even more so I didn’t do that and it work! I was happy to finally learn how to skate, thanks to her.

 As then I return back to my seat after she disappear which then look at the buttons left, I had 4 left to speak with and learn about… who to go for next.

[awells933-blog]

Special Sauce: Phil Rosenthal Is Anthony Bourdain,...

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[Photographs: Netflix]

My friend Phil Rosenthal, the creator and host of the new Netflix show Somebody Feed Phil, is as much fun to talk to as he is to eat with. When I asked him how the show ended up on Netflix, he replied, “The way I sold the show…I said, ‘I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything….I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails.'”

When I sit down with Phil no subject is off limits. We revisited (admittedly at my behest) the moment in 2006 when I asked him to invest in Serious Eats. I just thought that the food-obsessed creator of Everybody Loves Raymond would leap at the opportunity to get in on the ground floor. “By the way,” he said, laughing, “my business manager told me not to give you money then. I was ready. I was like, ‘This sounds good.’ But he said, ‘No, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.'” That’s four “nos” and two “don’ts” for those of you counting at home.

If you listen, you’ll find that the Phil Rosenthal you hear on Special Sauce is the same guy you see on Somebody Feed Phil. He’s funny—really funny—smart, and generously spirited (he always picks up the check, on the show and in real life). And, oh yeah, Phil’s also a great storyteller who has somehow managed to maintain an optimistic but realistic outlook on life. Why? Because as his friend Ed. Weinberger, the legendary sitcom director and creator, told him when he was shooting the Everybody Loves Raymond pilot, “Phil, you might as well make the show you want to make because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway.” As Phil pointed out, “Isn’t that a great philosophy of life? We all get cancelled one day. Live your life.”

So enliven your life, Serious Eaters, by listening to Part 1 of the Special Sauce interview with Phil Rosenthal. You’ll be laughing in the first minute. (And for those of you who prefer their interviews in written form, we’ve included an edited transcript of the conversation below.)

Special Sauce is available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play Music, Soundcloud, Player FM, and Stitcher. You can also find the archive of all our episodes here on Serious Eats and on this RSS feed.

You Could Be on Special Sauce

Want to chat with me and our unbelievably talented recipe developers? We’re accepting questions for Special Sauce call-in episodes now. Do you have a recurring argument with your spouse over the best way to maintain a cast iron skillet? Have you been working on your mac and cheese recipe for the past five years, but can’t quite get it right? Does your brother-in-law make the worst lasagna, and you want to figure out how to give him tips? We want to get to know you and solve all your food-related problems. Send us the whole story at [email protected].

Transcript

Ed Levine: Welcome to Special Sauce, a Serious Eats podcast about food and life. Every week on Special Sauce we talk to some of the leading lights of American culture, food folks and non food folks alike.

Phil Rosenthal: The way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.”

EL: Today it is indeed an honor and a pleasure to welcome back producer, comedy writer, television host, Phil Rosenthal. Many people know Phil as the co-creator of the long running, multiple Emmy Award-winning sitcom, Everybody Loves Raymond. Phil was also the creator and host of PBS’s James Beard Award-winning food and travel show, I’ll Have What Phil’s Having. And now Phil is back with a moving and hilarious new food and travel show, Somebody Feed Phil. The first six episodes are streaming as we speak on Netflix. Welcome back to Special Sauce, my dear friend and fellow serious eater, Phil Rosenthal.

PR: Hello.

EL: It’s so good to have you. We had some fantastic pizza the other night. Did we not?

PR: Come on. We love Razza’s. And I guess, is it fair to tell the people maybe they’ll see some of that someday?

EL: Yeah. Sure.

PR: Yeah. All right.

EL: I mean, it’s up to you for what you can reveal.

PR: Yeah. All right. That’s all I’m revealing. But it’s no great reveal that Razza’s is some of the best pizza on the planet.

EL: Yeah. It’s in Jersey City. His original pizzeria in Maplewood, Arturo’s.

PR: Wow.

EL: He sold a few years ago, and then bought and opened Razza.

PR: This Dan Richer is just a genius.

EL: He really is.

PR: I mean, every detail of that place, just bread and butter. I’d go for the bread and butter.

EL: Right.

PR: Right? And then here’s a platter of ham with fresh mozzarella, Buffalo mozzarella that when you …

EL: It’s from New Jersey.

PR: From Jersey. Then when you push on this ball of mozzarella, it just squirts all this milk out all over the plate. It is so delicious and these wild pies that have hazelnut and honey and the honey has a provenance, right? They’re from, is it Rutgers University?

EL: Yeah, yeah. Everything, so the hazelnuts were grown at Rutgers.

PR: Oh, that’s from the, yeah.

EL: Who knew they grew anything but football players?

PR: Yes right, I’m a big hazelnut fan. Like, way more than football fan.

EL: Yeah. And the hazelnuts tasted sort of meaty. But he roasted them. It was awesome.

PR: It is awesome.

EL: I do want to get right into Somebody Feed Phil, which I think in its own quiet way is a groundbreaking show.

PR: Wow.

EL: I do, with its blend of food and travel and comedy, and of course it’s all filtered through your point of view. I mean it’s very, I can’t imagine anyone else filling the role that you fill on the show.

PR: Oh well, thanks. I mean, I’m certainly not the first guy to have this type of show, right?

EL: No, no that’s [inaudible 00:03:11]

PR: But I guess, if you’re going to do it, you may as well bring yourself to it.

EL: Right.

PR: You could make a generic version of the show.

EL: Right, of which there are hundreds of generic food and travel shows.

PR: You know what feels generic when you watch a lot of them? Is the editing.

EL: Right.

PR: Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang. God forbid someone, we should linger for too long? What if somebody turns the channel? Right? So now on Netflix, you don’t have to worry.

EL: Right. That must have been liberating.

PR: By the way, not to digress, but look at Letterman’s new show on there.

EL: Right.

PR: Like did you watch?

EL: Oh, I saw a little bit of the interview with Obama.

PR: I mean, first of all, it’s so beautiful to see him back.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Letterman. But to see him unconstrained, you don’t even realize how constrained he was by the commercial network requirements.

EL: Mm-hmm, interesting.

PR: You only have four minutes with this guest before you cut to commercial. That shapes the whole show.

EL: You’re right. And by the same token, I think you’re being on Netflix this time around does the same thing for you. It’s Phil Rosenthal unchained. Because what’s funny is-

PR: Does anyone really want that?

EL: Having watched all six episodes of this and the last series and many episodes of Everyone Loves Raymond. Was it Everybody Loves Raymond? I always get it wrong.

PR: Everybody. Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Just like, this is somebody.

PR: Right. So people are already saying someone.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: It’s funny that we confuse everybody, everyone, somebody, someone, that’s just a thing.

EL: Right. And it’s Everybody Loves Raymond is in a zillion countries. What do they say in Russia?

PR: I think it was going to be Everybody Loves [inaudible 00:05:02]. But I think they changed the name once it actually got on the air to the Veronins.

EL: The Veronins?

PR: The Veronins recently became the longest-running adaptation of an American television show in the history of the world.

EL: The Veronins.

PR: Veronins. So you could still see it, I think there’s even a spinoff, there’s a thing. Exporting Raymond is also on Netflix, if you want to see the genesis of, yeah.

EL: That’s the, Exporting Raymond is the documentary that, to me, was a crime that more people didn’t see, because it was-

PR: They’ve seen it now.

EL: Good, it’s so beautif-

PR: It’s on Netflix, I’m so happy.

EL: Yeah, it’s so beautifully realized and so fascinating.

PR: Yeah. They tried to release it in the theaters. It was disaster.

EL: Right.

PR: Because who wants to go see a documentary about a guy they never heard of before?

EL: Exactly. But it is true that this show seems so personal to me, not only in the way it’s shot, and knowing how much of it, a lengthy adventure it was to get it made the way you want it made.

PR: Yeah, they don’t hand these things out. And they certainly don’t hand them out and let you do them any way you want to do them.

EL: Right.

PR: So, and I would tell to you it took ten years?

EL: Ten years?

PR: Yeah, of it being in the back of my head. Maybe we talked about this last time, but quickly, I’ll just for you newbies out there, the genesis of this was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Right.

PR: When we took Ray, I asked him on a hiatus.

EL: This is Ray Romano.

PR: Yeah. “What are you doing to do for your vacation?” “I go to the Jersey Shore.” And I said, “This nice. You ever been to Europe?” He goes, “No.” I said, “Why not?” He goes, “I’m not really interested in other cultures.” Even his own, Italian. He didn’t, so I go, “Well, we got to do that show.” We got to do that show where we take him to Italy as him, and we send him back as me, someone who’s excited about going to Italy. Or traveling in general.

EL: Right.

PR: And eating over there. And everything that’s beautiful that we know about going. Right? Took me a few years to get that done-

EL: Wow.

PR: Because that costs money to bring your whole crew. And so then-

EL: Yeah exactly. And that would up the budget on that episode too.

PR: Well, absolutely. So, but by year I guess, five-

EL: Right, when you’d won a zillion Emmys.

PR: We were happy to, they’re happy to do what we like.

EL: Right.

PR: So we do it. Well, don’t you know, the very arc of the character that I wrote, of him getting woke over there, I saw it happen to the person. I saw it happen to Ray himself.

EL: Wow.

PR: And that was so powerful to me, that I realized what if I could do this for other people? And from that moment, I’m going to say that’s the year 2000, I’ve wanted to do this show. Raymond ended five years later. So, ten years from then, I’ve been pursuing other things, trying to get other sitcoms on the air, knocking my head against the Hollywood wall.

EL: Right. People think that, and it’s something that I remember it was so interesting to talk to you when we first got to know each other.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Because I figured, oh, somebody has a hit television show where everybody’s done well. Everybody on the show, the creators of the show, the network. So, that must pave the way to other things.

PR: It opens the door, certainly. But then you got to stay in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: And they got to want you in that room. And they got to want what you do in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: What I found was, they wanted my name on things-

EL: Right.

PR: Being the guy from that other thing, but they didn’t really want that thing anymore.

EL: Interesting.

PR: That the business had changed in my nine years on Raymond into something else. And to be honest, I don’t know if Raymond would have gotten on the air the year we went off the air.

EL: Right. Sure.

PR: And by the way, we had trouble getting on the air the year we got on the air.

EL: Right. And that’s true no matter what medium-

PR: Yes.

EL: Because it’s the same thing with Serious Eats.

PR: Yes.

EL: And we should say that Phil and I got to know each other when our mutual friend Nancy Silverton, a great restaurateur, chef and baker in Los Angeles introduced us, and I took Phil and his fantastic wife Monica for a tour of Arthur Avenue in the Bronx.

PR: Another great reason to love Nancy.

EL: And then, of course, I asked Phil to invest in Serious Eats when, this was 2006.

PR: Yeah.

EL: When nobody was saying, “Yes.” When it was so difficult. But the reason I bring it up was not that, is because I say to people eleven years later-

PR: Yes?

EL: If I wanted to launch Serious Eats right now-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The climate has changed so dramatically in digital media that nobody would give me money now. Even though Serious Eats is seen as this great website with 10 million unique visitors a month.

PR: Yes. Well, by the way, my business manager told me not to give you money then.

EL: Right.

PR: I was ready. I was like, “This sounds good.” But he said, “No, no, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.” And I got to listen to him because I’m an idiot when it comes to financial things. I invest in restaurants, and I’ll fall in love with the restaurant and the chef, and I’m like, “Yes, we do it, we do it because I like to support the arts.” Right?

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s what I’m doing. But every decision is made by him.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Has to be.

EL: No, I know.

PR: He has to protect me from myself.

EL: Yes, because you are a soft touch.

PR: I think I am.

EL: You are.

PR: Jonathan Gold calls me the investor of first resort. By the way, how stupid am I saying this on the radio? But I can also say, it’s not up to me.

EL: Yeah, sure.

PR: Business manager.

EL: But it is true that landscapes change in the media world. So, you’re saying that Raymond wouldn’t have gotten made when you went off the air.

PR: Yes. That’s true.

EL: Serious Eats wouldn’t be created in 2018.

PR: Right. Yeah.

EL: Something else, it would be an Instagram account or whatever it would be, but it would not be a website, I will tell you with 100% certainty.

PR: And that the way that Serious Eats is so personal to you, and it is, has your [inaudible 00:11:27] all over it, then your taste and your values, so it is with a television show that I would make. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: And so, you might get offers to do something else, something you don’t like. Not doing it.

EL: Right.

PR: I don’t care.

EL: Yeah.

PR: I really don’t care about the money.

EL: And I’m also reminded of what you told me that Ed Weinberger, the famous sitcom director told you when you were having trouble making the pilot of Everybody Loves Raymond-

PR: That’s correct.

EL: In the way that you wanted to make it.

PR: Yes.

EL: And the studio involved kept giving you a hard time.

PR: Well, you get a lot of notes sometimes, yeah.

EL: Right. And Ed said to you, “You might as well make the show you want to do, because it’s going to get canceled eventually anyway.”

PR: Yeah, do the show you want to do because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway. And by the way, isn’t that a great philosophy of life?

EL: Yeah.

PR: We all get canceled one day.

EL: Right, so-

PR: Live your life.

EL: So, talk to us about what the big idea behind the show-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The new show, Somebody Feed Phil was.

PR: So, Anthony Bourdain has kicked open the door how many years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: 18 years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: Does this, all of a sudden, remember this is a food and travel show-

EL: Right, so-

PR: With a qualified person, a chef. And adventurer, even.

EL: Right.

PR: I watch that show and I go, “He’s amazing. I’m never doing that.”

EL: Right. And with a strong point of view.

PR: Absolutely.

EL: And well-written, high production values, a very specific look and feel.

PR: Right. So, I thought I’m watching him and I’m loving that show, and I still love the show. You see that it’s evolved into him becoming a pretty great journalist actually. He’s very serious-minded. He also, his tastes run to the darker side of things.

EL: Yes.

PR: I think he would say that. And to that’s where he’s really, really interested and he wants to explore political issues. I think it’s the top show on CNN.

EL: Yeah, for sure.

PR: For good reason.

EL: Yeah.

PR: But I also thought if I’m this guy, the way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.” That’s really how I feel.

EL: A phobic Anthony Bourdain.

PR: Well, it’s the shape of the show, right? Food and travel show, but with a totally different character.

EL: Right.

PR: Totally. I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails by tribesmen.

EL: Right? Why?

PR: What’s just me. And I’m not going to Beirut to get shot at. And I’m not flipping over in my dune buggy. I’d also, when I travel, I’d like a hotel. I’d like a bed. Right? Is breakfast included?

EL: You’re asking for a lot.

PR: This is what I’m asking for. And I had a feeling I wasn’t alone.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also knew this: That the world would be better if we traveled more. That instead of just watching an adventurer from the couch, what if you got out there? And I thought if someone who sits on the couch saw somebody else from the couch getting up and doing it.

EL: Interesting.

PR: If this putz can go outside.

EL: Right.

PR: Maybe I can too.

EL: Right.

PR: So, two-thirds of us don’t even have a passport in America.

EL: Right.

PR: Wouldn’t it all be a little nicer? Would we be in the position we’re in today?

EL: Right.

PR: If we all experienced a little of someone else’s experience and understood it a little bit, just a little bit?

EL: Because it comes out of your soul, it does have this pro-social, political, with a small P, bent.

PR: It was never intended to be political.

EL: Right.

PR: Never. But suddenly, in today’s climate, wha-, the embracing of other people and other culture is political?

EL: Right.

PR: I’m just trying to be a person.

EL: Right. You’re trying to be a good human being.

PR: Please. Please.

EL: The bar is not set that high for television hosts.

PR: Yes. Yes, you’re right. It’s the bare minimum. “Hello, how are you? Oh, what’s this food? Oh, I’ll taste it.” That’s such a political statement?

EL: I mean, that’s what makes the show special. And I love Tony’s show, but he’s the outlaw with a heart of goal.

PR: Yes. And not the in-law.

EL: And you’re the brother-in-law with a heart of gold.

PR: That’s right.

EL: But I think, there is a difference. And there’s also other kinds of travel shows now too, that you must have been aware of when you were thinking about this show, because Andrew Zimmern does Bizarre Foods.

PR: Love him. I’m not eating that.

EL: Right. And you’re not eating that, right.

PR: I mean, [inaudible 00:16:32] only eating it, but almost by accident. Yeah.

EL: And there’s Guy Fieri, but you’re not dying your hair.

PR: He’s, listen, he does public service too.

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s a different show. It has appeal and it’s probably opening minds to other stuff all around the country. And God bless him. I heard that when he visits a place, the business shoots up, and it’s wonderful for them.

EL: Yeah.

PR: And good for him.

EL: Tell us about what happens in a new show, like what the format is, how you developed it, take us through the nuts and bolts of shooting an episode.

PR: Well, as I said, I had thought about this and tried to get it going in addition to all my other things that I was working on. This was always like in the back, and American Express came to me, I think, did I tell you about this?

EL: Yeah. Yeah, you went to London with Thomas Keller.

PR: Exactly. I didn’t know. I thought, “Oh, here we go. This will be a TV show.” But it wasn’t. It was, and they didn’t tell me this, they wanted it as a card member experience, meaning we would go there, shoot for a week. They would take the best of what they thought we captured on film, and kind of have a screening with a dinner for rich people. For card member, like Platinum card members, right?

EL: Right. Right up your alley.

PR: This is not what I wanted. And when I got there, I had, by the way, I had this vision that you see now of Somebody Feed Phil, that’s the vision I had. You’re going to go with Thomas Keller into, okay, if I have to bring a famous chef with me, may as well be Thomas Keller. He’s pretty freaking awesome. We’re friendly, and I love him. He’s a wonderful guy. But when I got there, there was some agenda. The producer booked us into 27 restaurants in seven days. All white table cloth.

EL: And all, my guess, is white table cloth.

PR: Yes.

EL: People hovering around to make sure your water glass is filled.

PR: Yes, when I travel, if I go for a week, let’s say, to London, I’m going to one of those places.

EL: Right. And even that is a stretch.

PR: Yeah. Yes. Well, I think we all like to do a splurge.

EL: Yeah.

PR: One big splurge when we go. Maybe two if you have to.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: But, 27. You can’t even imagine. That’s more than breakfast, lunch and dinner in seven days.

EL: Right.

PR: I was getting sick. I was like, when the food comes to the table, you want to go, “Oh boy,” not “Oh, no.”

EL: Right.

PR: Like “I can’t eat any,” and so, I only tell you this story to tell you that you learn just as much from what not to do in life.

EL: Of course. That’s always true.

PR: As you do from what to do.

EL: You just hope you get the chance to do it again.

PR: Exactly right. And that was a very tough time for me. Because here was ostensibly my dream, “Okay Phil, here it is. You got it.”

EL: Right.

PR: “Here’s your show.” Oh no. This is not right. So, by the time the next one came along, I knew exactly what the show should be.

EL: Right.

PR: From the negative experience.

EL: So, what is the show like now? Like what happens?

PR: I have ZPZ, the production company. I was asked what production company do you want to use? Why not the people that do Anthony Bourdain’s show? So, they have contacts all over the world. They know how to make these shows. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: My show isn’t going to be like his in terms of tone or even-

EL: Content.

PR: Content in some cases. Some of the content, by the way, overlaps.

EL: Right.

PR: So, sometimes you film something and I’ll hear that he did it 12 years ago.

EL: Right.

PR: And I’m like, “Oh no.” And then I see the two side by side, completely different take.

EL: Right.

PR: Even completely different dishes that we’re having.

EL: Sure.

PR: But even if it was the same dish, somehow it feels different just because of, you’re right, point of view. So, it’s really quite simple. The send me research of the places from their people on the ground in Lisbon. I’ll take my phone out and Google “best places to eat in Lisbon.” First of all, I’m looking for best places on Earth to go. Let me back up one step: Where do we decide where to go? Well, if my goal is to get you to travel, Mr. Sit in your chair and never move, and like only what you like, I’m going to start with Earth’s greatest hits. Because that, I think, will seduce you into coming. These places are popular for a reason.

EL: Right.

PR: People like them.

EL: Right.

PR: So let’s start there, and maybe that will be, if you see Paris, if you see Florence, if you see Barcelona. And you see how accessible it is, and you see lots of other Americans are going too, maybe that’ll be your first step. And I also knew that people who had been to those places never mind seeing it again. Especially if they’re going to go back and we can turn them on to the great stuff.

EL: I know. I just got back from Mexico City-

PR: Oh, how great. Yeah.

EL: After watching your episode, I was like, “I missed this, I missed this. This, this and this.”

PR: I miss it and I want to go back and get that.

EL: And I want to, I said to my wife, last night, it’s like, “Can we go back to Mexico City? I just watched the Mexico City episode.” So you do all this research.

PR: I want to go with you.

EL: Okay.

PR: That’d be fun.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Because what better weekend from America. It’s only a few hours away.

EL: No. Yeah.

PR: You’re in another world, and it’s amazing. And you think you know Mexican food here.

EL: Right.

PR: You don’t know how great it can be.

EL: So, you do the research.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Keep going.

PR: Yeah. Do the research, and then we start whittling it down. And we’re saying, and also, they’re presenting me not just with cool places to eat, but things to do. Because we want to break it up a little bit. We want to highlight without hitting you over the head in an educational way.

EL: Right, you don’t want to be oppressively bite filled.

PR: Exactly right. And you don’t want to be, also, “Now we’re going to learn about the Mexican people.” That’s a different type of show also.

EL: Right.

PR: But I want to get some of it in there because it adds to the appreciation of the place, the people, and the food.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also want to be entertaining. That’s job one. Just like on Raymond, if you didn’t have jokes, you wouldn’t watch.

EL: Well, that’s the thing that-

PR: So, I’ve got to have food, I’ve got to have humor. But these things are just the way in to what the show’s really about, I think, which is connecting with the people.

EL: Yes, it is about, and it’s the people that make the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: And did you know ahead of time, which people were going to provide the sort of underpinnings of each episode? Like each family? Or did that just happen when you got there? Because we should explain that in every episode, Phil ends up, most episodes at least, having a meal with a family. Or was that just-

PR: That’s just something that can happen to you if you travel. It really can. We think, what are the odds of that? The odds are very good.

EL: Right.

PR: That you’ll meet people and you might even be welcome in their home, or at least eat with them out somewhere. Or go to a barbecue. Get invited. You never know what is going to happen. But that’s the joy of it. And to me, I say this in the thing, food is the great connector. And laughs are the cement.

EL: I know, it’s funny, I wrote that line down and it was so Phil Rosenthal. It really is, because it’s your essence in six words or whatever it is. Or eight words. And it could be your epitaph.

PR: Okay. Do you know something I don’t know?

EL: Oh well, we can talk about that later [inaudible 00:24:34]

PR: I saw your card.

EL: But it is true, and the humanity and the humor are what come through in every frame.

PR: Thanks. It’s our most underrated value, I think, as human beings is our sense of humor. It’s how we choose our friends. I’ll go one step further. It’s who we marry, right? That the other stuff in marriage, it falls away a little bit as you get older. You know what I’m talking about.

EL: Right.

PR: But as long as you make each other laugh once in a while.

EL: It’s true. The most memorable moments and the moments I treasure, are when we’re in bed and my wife cracks me up.

PR: Because that’s all that’s left for you to do in bed. But I think if the laughs go, that’s when the marriage goes. You see it in people.

EL: Yeah.

PR: They’re not having fun anymore.

EL: So, the show if filled with your particular brand of humor. Talk about where your humor comes from.

PR: My parents.

EL: And yeah, your parents.

PR: Speaking of stars of the show.

EL: Right. We should say that is another element of the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: Are your parents are in every episode.

PR: My parents-

EL: First of all, do you pay them?

PR: Don’t start negotiating for them.

EL: All right.

PR: Because I know I’ll get taken to the cleaners by these people.

EL: Okay.

PR: I love their sense of humor. I can’t say it was always ice cream and rainbows in our house. We would yell and we would fight and I was a terrible child, and it was, but, on the other hand, laughs. I don’t think I’m alone in this. I think every family of certain ethnicities have this. “Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra!” “A ha ha ha ha!”

EL: Right.

PR: One second to the next. That’s the soundtrack of our lives, right? It just so happened accidentally that I Skyped with them from exporting Raymond, when I was over in Russia.

EL: Oh, you did? That’s where that-

PR: I was with a Russian family, and I couldn’t believe that the grandparents in Russia, first of all I was shocked and delighted to find that the Russian family that I’d been told was so different from the American family, was exactly the same.

EL: Right.

PR: Except the grandparents knew how to work the computer.

EL: Right.

PR: I said, “You know what Skype is?” “Yeah.” “You know what to do?” “Yeah.” “Come on, let’s try it.” Just like that. “Let’s try it.” Who are we calling? My parents.

EL: Right.

PR: Okay? And they’re the same age. And then, that’s all filmed, and that’s in the movie. Probably the best scene in the movie that I’ve been told. That’s what they, the most popular people in the movie, my parents. So, I’d be nuts not to remember that. And then I thought, you know what the modern day equivalent of a postcard home is? The Skype call, from wherever you are.

EL: Right.

PR: “Hey, here’s what I’m doing. Here’s in fact what I’m eating. Here’s the view out the window of where I am.” “Hi, look at this modern wonder,” said Grandpa. Look at what you can do. Well, it turns out that they’re the hits. Because they’re the most relatable. The parents in Raymond are kind of based on them. And so, they provided me with my whole life in every way, when you think about it.

EL: They are hilarious.

PR: I think so. My Dad, he’s 92 now, he tells a joke, I think, in the Israel episode. A guy was praying at the wailing wall, and somebody comes over. He says, “What are you praying for?” He says, “I pray for health. I pray for money. I pray for happiness?” And he says, “How’s it going?” And the joke is, “Well, it’s like talking to a wall.” But my father says it, “Well, you’re talking to a wall.” So, it’s okay, but the expression is, “It’s like talking to a wall.” That’s the known expression. So, I gave him another chance at it thinking I’ll only use in the show the good one. Now, I never do take two, but for 92-year-old Max, I’m going to give him another shot at the joke, because I’d like him to score. I think I would love a Max Rosenthal to have a show. I think Max would like to have a show where he just tells jokes. By the way, he was in Old Jews Telling Jokes.

EL: Really?

PR: That web series, I think, of videos.

EL: Yeah.

PR: He does three jokes if you can find it online.

EL: And he kills.

PR: He’s awesome. His timing, his face, he is awesome. But, here’s what I want people to do: Go on YouTube, search for Max Rosenthal, the restaurant joke.

EL: Right, okay.

PR: I’m telling you, as finely told joke as you will ever see and hear.

EL: So he did better in Old Jews Telling Jokes than he did on Somebody Feed Phil?

PR: Yeah, thanks Dad. No, he always delivers.

EL: Right.

PR: He’s always funny. And just this process of me trying to coach him through the joke, and my mother next to him, when I say, “Let’s try it again,” she goes, “I have to hear this again? I’ve heard it 500 times, this joke.” That’s marriage. That’s what you get. Yes.

EL: So, we haven’t even gotten to episodes that I want to talk about.

PR: Do what you want. It’s your show, Ed.

EL: And family, so-

PR: Don’t let the suits tell you what to do.

EL: We’re going to, this is going to be part one, this episode of Special Sauce. But, there’s so many more thing I want to ask you about. So, thanks Phil Rosenthal, and come back, Serious Eaters, next week.

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[Photographs: Netflix]

My friend Phil Rosenthal, the creator and host of the new Netflix show Somebody Feed Phil, is as much fun to talk to as he is to eat with. When I asked him how the show ended up on Netflix, he replied, “The way I sold the show…I said, ‘I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything….I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails.'”

When I sit down with Phil no subject is off limits. We revisited (admittedly at my behest) the moment in 2006 when I asked him to invest in Serious Eats. I just thought that the food-obsessed creator of Everybody Loves Raymond would leap at the opportunity to get in on the ground floor. “By the way,” he said, laughing, “my business manager told me not to give you money then. I was ready. I was like, ‘This sounds good.’ But he said, ‘No, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.'” That’s four “nos” and two “don’ts” for those of you counting at home.

If you listen, you’ll find that the Phil Rosenthal you hear on Special Sauce is the same guy you see on Somebody Feed Phil. He’s funny—really funny—smart, and generously spirited (he always picks up the check, on the show and in real life). And, oh yeah, Phil’s also a great storyteller who has somehow managed to maintain an optimistic but realistic outlook on life. Why? Because as his friend Ed. Weinberger, the legendary sitcom director and creator, told him when he was shooting the Everybody Loves Raymond pilot, “Phil, you might as well make the show you want to make because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway.” As Phil pointed out, “Isn’t that a great philosophy of life? We all get cancelled one day. Live your life.”

So enliven your life, Serious Eaters, by listening to Part 1 of the Special Sauce interview with Phil Rosenthal. You’ll be laughing in the first minute. (And for those of you who prefer their interviews in written form, we’ve included an edited transcript of the conversation below.)

Special Sauce is available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play Music, Soundcloud, Player FM, and Stitcher. You can also find the archive of all our episodes here on Serious Eats and on this RSS feed.

You Could Be on Special Sauce

Want to chat with me and our unbelievably talented recipe developers? We’re accepting questions for Special Sauce call-in episodes now. Do you have a recurring argument with your spouse over the best way to maintain a cast iron skillet? Have you been working on your mac and cheese recipe for the past five years, but can’t quite get it right? Does your brother-in-law make the worst lasagna, and you want to figure out how to give him tips? We want to get to know you and solve all your food-related problems. Send us the whole story at [email protected].

Transcript

Ed Levine: Welcome to Special Sauce, a Serious Eats podcast about food and life. Every week on Special Sauce we talk to some of the leading lights of American culture, food folks and non food folks alike.

Phil Rosenthal: The way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.”

EL: Today it is indeed an honor and a pleasure to welcome back producer, comedy writer, television host, Phil Rosenthal. Many people know Phil as the co-creator of the long running, multiple Emmy Award-winning sitcom, Everybody Loves Raymond. Phil was also the creator and host of PBS’s James Beard Award-winning food and travel show, I’ll Have What Phil’s Having. And now Phil is back with a moving and hilarious new food and travel show, Somebody Feed Phil. The first six episodes are streaming as we speak on Netflix. Welcome back to Special Sauce, my dear friend and fellow serious eater, Phil Rosenthal.

PR: Hello.

EL: It’s so good to have you. We had some fantastic pizza the other night. Did we not?

PR: Come on. We love Razza’s. And I guess, is it fair to tell the people maybe they’ll see some of that someday?

EL: Yeah. Sure.

PR: Yeah. All right.

EL: I mean, it’s up to you for what you can reveal.

PR: Yeah. All right. That’s all I’m revealing. But it’s no great reveal that Razza’s is some of the best pizza on the planet.

EL: Yeah. It’s in Jersey City. His original pizzeria in Maplewood, Arturo’s.

PR: Wow.

EL: He sold a few years ago, and then bought and opened Razza.

PR: This Dan Richer is just a genius.

EL: He really is.

PR: I mean, every detail of that place, just bread and butter. I’d go for the bread and butter.

EL: Right.

PR: Right? And then here’s a platter of ham with fresh mozzarella, Buffalo mozzarella that when you …

EL: It’s from New Jersey.

PR: From Jersey. Then when you push on this ball of mozzarella, it just squirts all this milk out all over the plate. It is so delicious and these wild pies that have hazelnut and honey and the honey has a provenance, right? They’re from, is it Rutgers University?

EL: Yeah, yeah. Everything, so the hazelnuts were grown at Rutgers.

PR: Oh, that’s from the, yeah.

EL: Who knew they grew anything but football players?

PR: Yes right, I’m a big hazelnut fan. Like, way more than football fan.

EL: Yeah. And the hazelnuts tasted sort of meaty. But he roasted them. It was awesome.

PR: It is awesome.

EL: I do want to get right into Somebody Feed Phil, which I think in its own quiet way is a groundbreaking show.

PR: Wow.

EL: I do, with its blend of food and travel and comedy, and of course it’s all filtered through your point of view. I mean it’s very, I can’t imagine anyone else filling the role that you fill on the show.

PR: Oh well, thanks. I mean, I’m certainly not the first guy to have this type of show, right?

EL: No, no that’s [inaudible 00:03:11]

PR: But I guess, if you’re going to do it, you may as well bring yourself to it.

EL: Right.

PR: You could make a generic version of the show.

EL: Right, of which there are hundreds of generic food and travel shows.

PR: You know what feels generic when you watch a lot of them? Is the editing.

EL: Right.

PR: Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang. God forbid someone, we should linger for too long? What if somebody turns the channel? Right? So now on Netflix, you don’t have to worry.

EL: Right. That must have been liberating.

PR: By the way, not to digress, but look at Letterman’s new show on there.

EL: Right.

PR: Like did you watch?

EL: Oh, I saw a little bit of the interview with Obama.

PR: I mean, first of all, it’s so beautiful to see him back.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Letterman. But to see him unconstrained, you don’t even realize how constrained he was by the commercial network requirements.

EL: Mm-hmm, interesting.

PR: You only have four minutes with this guest before you cut to commercial. That shapes the whole show.

EL: You’re right. And by the same token, I think you’re being on Netflix this time around does the same thing for you. It’s Phil Rosenthal unchained. Because what’s funny is-

PR: Does anyone really want that?

EL: Having watched all six episodes of this and the last series and many episodes of Everyone Loves Raymond. Was it Everybody Loves Raymond? I always get it wrong.

PR: Everybody. Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Just like, this is somebody.

PR: Right. So people are already saying someone.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: It’s funny that we confuse everybody, everyone, somebody, someone, that’s just a thing.

EL: Right. And it’s Everybody Loves Raymond is in a zillion countries. What do they say in Russia?

PR: I think it was going to be Everybody Loves [inaudible 00:05:02]. But I think they changed the name once it actually got on the air to the Veronins.

EL: The Veronins?

PR: The Veronins recently became the longest-running adaptation of an American television show in the history of the world.

EL: The Veronins.

PR: Veronins. So you could still see it, I think there’s even a spinoff, there’s a thing. Exporting Raymond is also on Netflix, if you want to see the genesis of, yeah.

EL: That’s the, Exporting Raymond is the documentary that, to me, was a crime that more people didn’t see, because it was-

PR: They’ve seen it now.

EL: Good, it’s so beautif-

PR: It’s on Netflix, I’m so happy.

EL: Yeah, it’s so beautifully realized and so fascinating.

PR: Yeah. They tried to release it in the theaters. It was disaster.

EL: Right.

PR: Because who wants to go see a documentary about a guy they never heard of before?

EL: Exactly. But it is true that this show seems so personal to me, not only in the way it’s shot, and knowing how much of it, a lengthy adventure it was to get it made the way you want it made.

PR: Yeah, they don’t hand these things out. And they certainly don’t hand them out and let you do them any way you want to do them.

EL: Right.

PR: So, and I would tell to you it took ten years?

EL: Ten years?

PR: Yeah, of it being in the back of my head. Maybe we talked about this last time, but quickly, I’ll just for you newbies out there, the genesis of this was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Right.

PR: When we took Ray, I asked him on a hiatus.

EL: This is Ray Romano.

PR: Yeah. “What are you doing to do for your vacation?” “I go to the Jersey Shore.” And I said, “This nice. You ever been to Europe?” He goes, “No.” I said, “Why not?” He goes, “I’m not really interested in other cultures.” Even his own, Italian. He didn’t, so I go, “Well, we got to do that show.” We got to do that show where we take him to Italy as him, and we send him back as me, someone who’s excited about going to Italy. Or traveling in general.

EL: Right.

PR: And eating over there. And everything that’s beautiful that we know about going. Right? Took me a few years to get that done-

EL: Wow.

PR: Because that costs money to bring your whole crew. And so then-

EL: Yeah exactly. And that would up the budget on that episode too.

PR: Well, absolutely. So, but by year I guess, five-

EL: Right, when you’d won a zillion Emmys.

PR: We were happy to, they’re happy to do what we like.

EL: Right.

PR: So we do it. Well, don’t you know, the very arc of the character that I wrote, of him getting woke over there, I saw it happen to the person. I saw it happen to Ray himself.

EL: Wow.

PR: And that was so powerful to me, that I realized what if I could do this for other people? And from that moment, I’m going to say that’s the year 2000, I’ve wanted to do this show. Raymond ended five years later. So, ten years from then, I’ve been pursuing other things, trying to get other sitcoms on the air, knocking my head against the Hollywood wall.

EL: Right. People think that, and it’s something that I remember it was so interesting to talk to you when we first got to know each other.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Because I figured, oh, somebody has a hit television show where everybody’s done well. Everybody on the show, the creators of the show, the network. So, that must pave the way to other things.

PR: It opens the door, certainly. But then you got to stay in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: And they got to want you in that room. And they got to want what you do in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: What I found was, they wanted my name on things-

EL: Right.

PR: Being the guy from that other thing, but they didn’t really want that thing anymore.

EL: Interesting.

PR: That the business had changed in my nine years on Raymond into something else. And to be honest, I don’t know if Raymond would have gotten on the air the year we went off the air.

EL: Right. Sure.

PR: And by the way, we had trouble getting on the air the year we got on the air.

EL: Right. And that’s true no matter what medium-

PR: Yes.

EL: Because it’s the same thing with Serious Eats.

PR: Yes.

EL: And we should say that Phil and I got to know each other when our mutual friend Nancy Silverton, a great restaurateur, chef and baker in Los Angeles introduced us, and I took Phil and his fantastic wife Monica for a tour of Arthur Avenue in the Bronx.

PR: Another great reason to love Nancy.

EL: And then, of course, I asked Phil to invest in Serious Eats when, this was 2006.

PR: Yeah.

EL: When nobody was saying, “Yes.” When it was so difficult. But the reason I bring it up was not that, is because I say to people eleven years later-

PR: Yes?

EL: If I wanted to launch Serious Eats right now-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The climate has changed so dramatically in digital media that nobody would give me money now. Even though Serious Eats is seen as this great website with 10 million unique visitors a month.

PR: Yes. Well, by the way, my business manager told me not to give you money then.

EL: Right.

PR: I was ready. I was like, “This sounds good.” But he said, “No, no, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.” And I got to listen to him because I’m an idiot when it comes to financial things. I invest in restaurants, and I’ll fall in love with the restaurant and the chef, and I’m like, “Yes, we do it, we do it because I like to support the arts.” Right?

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s what I’m doing. But every decision is made by him.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Has to be.

EL: No, I know.

PR: He has to protect me from myself.

EL: Yes, because you are a soft touch.

PR: I think I am.

EL: You are.

PR: Jonathan Gold calls me the investor of first resort. By the way, how stupid am I saying this on the radio? But I can also say, it’s not up to me.

EL: Yeah, sure.

PR: Business manager.

EL: But it is true that landscapes change in the media world. So, you’re saying that Raymond wouldn’t have gotten made when you went off the air.

PR: Yes. That’s true.

EL: Serious Eats wouldn’t be created in 2018.

PR: Right. Yeah.

EL: Something else, it would be an Instagram account or whatever it would be, but it would not be a website, I will tell you with 100% certainty.

PR: And that the way that Serious Eats is so personal to you, and it is, has your [inaudible 00:11:27] all over it, then your taste and your values, so it is with a television show that I would make. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: And so, you might get offers to do something else, something you don’t like. Not doing it.

EL: Right.

PR: I don’t care.

EL: Yeah.

PR: I really don’t care about the money.

EL: And I’m also reminded of what you told me that Ed Weinberger, the famous sitcom director told you when you were having trouble making the pilot of Everybody Loves Raymond-

PR: That’s correct.

EL: In the way that you wanted to make it.

PR: Yes.

EL: And the studio involved kept giving you a hard time.

PR: Well, you get a lot of notes sometimes, yeah.

EL: Right. And Ed said to you, “You might as well make the show you want to do, because it’s going to get canceled eventually anyway.”

PR: Yeah, do the show you want to do because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway. And by the way, isn’t that a great philosophy of life?

EL: Yeah.

PR: We all get canceled one day.

EL: Right, so-

PR: Live your life.

EL: So, talk to us about what the big idea behind the show-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The new show, Somebody Feed Phil was.

PR: So, Anthony Bourdain has kicked open the door how many years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: 18 years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: Does this, all of a sudden, remember this is a food and travel show-

EL: Right, so-

PR: With a qualified person, a chef. And adventurer, even.

EL: Right.

PR: I watch that show and I go, “He’s amazing. I’m never doing that.”

EL: Right. And with a strong point of view.

PR: Absolutely.

EL: And well-written, high production values, a very specific look and feel.

PR: Right. So, I thought I’m watching him and I’m loving that show, and I still love the show. You see that it’s evolved into him becoming a pretty great journalist actually. He’s very serious-minded. He also, his tastes run to the darker side of things.

EL: Yes.

PR: I think he would say that. And to that’s where he’s really, really interested and he wants to explore political issues. I think it’s the top show on CNN.

EL: Yeah, for sure.

PR: For good reason.

EL: Yeah.

PR: But I also thought if I’m this guy, the way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.” That’s really how I feel.

EL: A phobic Anthony Bourdain.

PR: Well, it’s the shape of the show, right? Food and travel show, but with a totally different character.

EL: Right.

PR: Totally. I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails by tribesmen.

EL: Right? Why?

PR: What’s just me. And I’m not going to Beirut to get shot at. And I’m not flipping over in my dune buggy. I’d also, when I travel, I’d like a hotel. I’d like a bed. Right? Is breakfast included?

EL: You’re asking for a lot.

PR: This is what I’m asking for. And I had a feeling I wasn’t alone.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also knew this: That the world would be better if we traveled more. That instead of just watching an adventurer from the couch, what if you got out there? And I thought if someone who sits on the couch saw somebody else from the couch getting up and doing it.

EL: Interesting.

PR: If this putz can go outside.

EL: Right.

PR: Maybe I can too.

EL: Right.

PR: So, two-thirds of us don’t even have a passport in America.

EL: Right.

PR: Wouldn’t it all be a little nicer? Would we be in the position we’re in today?

EL: Right.

PR: If we all experienced a little of someone else’s experience and understood it a little bit, just a little bit?

EL: Because it comes out of your soul, it does have this pro-social, political, with a small P, bent.

PR: It was never intended to be political.

EL: Right.

PR: Never. But suddenly, in today’s climate, wha-, the embracing of other people and other culture is political?

EL: Right.

PR: I’m just trying to be a person.

EL: Right. You’re trying to be a good human being.

PR: Please. Please.

EL: The bar is not set that high for television hosts.

PR: Yes. Yes, you’re right. It’s the bare minimum. “Hello, how are you? Oh, what’s this food? Oh, I’ll taste it.” That’s such a political statement?

EL: I mean, that’s what makes the show special. And I love Tony’s show, but he’s the outlaw with a heart of goal.

PR: Yes. And not the in-law.

EL: And you’re the brother-in-law with a heart of gold.

PR: That’s right.

EL: But I think, there is a difference. And there’s also other kinds of travel shows now too, that you must have been aware of when you were thinking about this show, because Andrew Zimmern does Bizarre Foods.

PR: Love him. I’m not eating that.

EL: Right. And you’re not eating that, right.

PR: I mean, [inaudible 00:16:32] only eating it, but almost by accident. Yeah.

EL: And there’s Guy Fieri, but you’re not dying your hair.

PR: He’s, listen, he does public service too.

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s a different show. It has appeal and it’s probably opening minds to other stuff all around the country. And God bless him. I heard that when he visits a place, the business shoots up, and it’s wonderful for them.

EL: Yeah.

PR: And good for him.

EL: Tell us about what happens in a new show, like what the format is, how you developed it, take us through the nuts and bolts of shooting an episode.

PR: Well, as I said, I had thought about this and tried to get it going in addition to all my other things that I was working on. This was always like in the back, and American Express came to me, I think, did I tell you about this?

EL: Yeah. Yeah, you went to London with Thomas Keller.

PR: Exactly. I didn’t know. I thought, “Oh, here we go. This will be a TV show.” But it wasn’t. It was, and they didn’t tell me this, they wanted it as a card member experience, meaning we would go there, shoot for a week. They would take the best of what they thought we captured on film, and kind of have a screening with a dinner for rich people. For card member, like Platinum card members, right?

EL: Right. Right up your alley.

PR: This is not what I wanted. And when I got there, I had, by the way, I had this vision that you see now of Somebody Feed Phil, that’s the vision I had. You’re going to go with Thomas Keller into, okay, if I have to bring a famous chef with me, may as well be Thomas Keller. He’s pretty freaking awesome. We’re friendly, and I love him. He’s a wonderful guy. But when I got there, there was some agenda. The producer booked us into 27 restaurants in seven days. All white table cloth.

EL: And all, my guess, is white table cloth.

PR: Yes.

EL: People hovering around to make sure your water glass is filled.

PR: Yes, when I travel, if I go for a week, let’s say, to London, I’m going to one of those places.

EL: Right. And even that is a stretch.

PR: Yeah. Yes. Well, I think we all like to do a splurge.

EL: Yeah.

PR: One big splurge when we go. Maybe two if you have to.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: But, 27. You can’t even imagine. That’s more than breakfast, lunch and dinner in seven days.

EL: Right.

PR: I was getting sick. I was like, when the food comes to the table, you want to go, “Oh boy,” not “Oh, no.”

EL: Right.

PR: Like “I can’t eat any,” and so, I only tell you this story to tell you that you learn just as much from what not to do in life.

EL: Of course. That’s always true.

PR: As you do from what to do.

EL: You just hope you get the chance to do it again.

PR: Exactly right. And that was a very tough time for me. Because here was ostensibly my dream, “Okay Phil, here it is. You got it.”

EL: Right.

PR: “Here’s your show.” Oh no. This is not right. So, by the time the next one came along, I knew exactly what the show should be.

EL: Right.

PR: From the negative experience.

EL: So, what is the show like now? Like what happens?

PR: I have ZPZ, the production company. I was asked what production company do you want to use? Why not the people that do Anthony Bourdain’s show? So, they have contacts all over the world. They know how to make these shows. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: My show isn’t going to be like his in terms of tone or even-

EL: Content.

PR: Content in some cases. Some of the content, by the way, overlaps.

EL: Right.

PR: So, sometimes you film something and I’ll hear that he did it 12 years ago.

EL: Right.

PR: And I’m like, “Oh no.” And then I see the two side by side, completely different take.

EL: Right.

PR: Even completely different dishes that we’re having.

EL: Sure.

PR: But even if it was the same dish, somehow it feels different just because of, you’re right, point of view. So, it’s really quite simple. The send me research of the places from their people on the ground in Lisbon. I’ll take my phone out and Google “best places to eat in Lisbon.” First of all, I’m looking for best places on Earth to go. Let me back up one step: Where do we decide where to go? Well, if my goal is to get you to travel, Mr. Sit in your chair and never move, and like only what you like, I’m going to start with Earth’s greatest hits. Because that, I think, will seduce you into coming. These places are popular for a reason.

EL: Right.

PR: People like them.

EL: Right.

PR: So let’s start there, and maybe that will be, if you see Paris, if you see Florence, if you see Barcelona. And you see how accessible it is, and you see lots of other Americans are going too, maybe that’ll be your first step. And I also knew that people who had been to those places never mind seeing it again. Especially if they’re going to go back and we can turn them on to the great stuff.

EL: I know. I just got back from Mexico City-

PR: Oh, how great. Yeah.

EL: After watching your episode, I was like, “I missed this, I missed this. This, this and this.”

PR: I miss it and I want to go back and get that.

EL: And I want to, I said to my wife, last night, it’s like, “Can we go back to Mexico City? I just watched the Mexico City episode.” So you do all this research.

PR: I want to go with you.

EL: Okay.

PR: That’d be fun.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Because what better weekend from America. It’s only a few hours away.

EL: No. Yeah.

PR: You’re in another world, and it’s amazing. And you think you know Mexican food here.

EL: Right.

PR: You don’t know how great it can be.

EL: So, you do the research.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Keep going.

PR: Yeah. Do the research, and then we start whittling it down. And we’re saying, and also, they’re presenting me not just with cool places to eat, but things to do. Because we want to break it up a little bit. We want to highlight without hitting you over the head in an educational way.

EL: Right, you don’t want to be oppressively bite filled.

PR: Exactly right. And you don’t want to be, also, “Now we’re going to learn about the Mexican people.” That’s a different type of show also.

EL: Right.

PR: But I want to get some of it in there because it adds to the appreciation of the place, the people, and the food.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also want to be entertaining. That’s job one. Just like on Raymond, if you didn’t have jokes, you wouldn’t watch.

EL: Well, that’s the thing that-

PR: So, I’ve got to have food, I’ve got to have humor. But these things are just the way in to what the show’s really about, I think, which is connecting with the people.

EL: Yes, it is about, and it’s the people that make the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: And did you know ahead of time, which people were going to provide the sort of underpinnings of each episode? Like each family? Or did that just happen when you got there? Because we should explain that in every episode, Phil ends up, most episodes at least, having a meal with a family. Or was that just-

PR: That’s just something that can happen to you if you travel. It really can. We think, what are the odds of that? The odds are very good.

EL: Right.

PR: That you’ll meet people and you might even be welcome in their home, or at least eat with them out somewhere. Or go to a barbecue. Get invited. You never know what is going to happen. But that’s the joy of it. And to me, I say this in the thing, food is the great connector. And laughs are the cement.

EL: I know, it’s funny, I wrote that line down and it was so Phil Rosenthal. It really is, because it’s your essence in six words or whatever it is. Or eight words. And it could be your epitaph.

PR: Okay. Do you know something I don’t know?

EL: Oh well, we can talk about that later [inaudible 00:24:34]

PR: I saw your card.

EL: But it is true, and the humanity and the humor are what come through in every frame.

PR: Thanks. It’s our most underrated value, I think, as human beings is our sense of humor. It’s how we choose our friends. I’ll go one step further. It’s who we marry, right? That the other stuff in marriage, it falls away a little bit as you get older. You know what I’m talking about.

EL: Right.

PR: But as long as you make each other laugh once in a while.

EL: It’s true. The most memorable moments and the moments I treasure, are when we’re in bed and my wife cracks me up.

PR: Because that’s all that’s left for you to do in bed. But I think if the laughs go, that’s when the marriage goes. You see it in people.

EL: Yeah.

PR: They’re not having fun anymore.

EL: So, the show if filled with your particular brand of humor. Talk about where your humor comes from.

PR: My parents.

EL: And yeah, your parents.

PR: Speaking of stars of the show.

EL: Right. We should say that is another element of the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: Are your parents are in every episode.

PR: My parents-

EL: First of all, do you pay them?

PR: Don’t start negotiating for them.

EL: All right.

PR: Because I know I’ll get taken to the cleaners by these people.

EL: Okay.

PR: I love their sense of humor. I can’t say it was always ice cream and rainbows in our house. We would yell and we would fight and I was a terrible child, and it was, but, on the other hand, laughs. I don’t think I’m alone in this. I think every family of certain ethnicities have this. “Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra!” “A ha ha ha ha!”

EL: Right.

PR: One second to the next. That’s the soundtrack of our lives, right? It just so happened accidentally that I Skyped with them from exporting Raymond, when I was over in Russia.

EL: Oh, you did? That’s where that-

PR: I was with a Russian family, and I couldn’t believe that the grandparents in Russia, first of all I was shocked and delighted to find that the Russian family that I’d been told was so different from the American family, was exactly the same.

EL: Right.

PR: Except the grandparents knew how to work the computer.

EL: Right.

PR: I said, “You know what Skype is?” “Yeah.” “You know what to do?” “Yeah.” “Come on, let’s try it.” Just like that. “Let’s try it.” Who are we calling? My parents.

EL: Right.

PR: Okay? And they’re the same age. And then, that’s all filmed, and that’s in the movie. Probably the best scene in the movie that I’ve been told. That’s what they, the most popular people in the movie, my parents. So, I’d be nuts not to remember that. And then I thought, you know what the modern day equivalent of a postcard home is? The Skype call, from wherever you are.

EL: Right.

PR: “Hey, here’s what I’m doing. Here’s in fact what I’m eating. Here’s the view out the window of where I am.” “Hi, look at this modern wonder,” said Grandpa. Look at what you can do. Well, it turns out that they’re the hits. Because they’re the most relatable. The parents in Raymond are kind of based on them. And so, they provided me with my whole life in every way, when you think about it.

EL: They are hilarious.

PR: I think so. My Dad, he’s 92 now, he tells a joke, I think, in the Israel episode. A guy was praying at the wailing wall, and somebody comes over. He says, “What are you praying for?” He says, “I pray for health. I pray for money. I pray for happiness?” And he says, “How’s it going?” And the joke is, “Well, it’s like talking to a wall.” But my father says it, “Well, you’re talking to a wall.” So, it’s okay, but the expression is, “It’s like talking to a wall.” That’s the known expression. So, I gave him another chance at it thinking I’ll only use in the show the good one. Now, I never do take two, but for 92-year-old Max, I’m going to give him another shot at the joke, because I’d like him to score. I think I would love a Max Rosenthal to have a show. I think Max would like to have a show where he just tells jokes. By the way, he was in Old Jews Telling Jokes.

EL: Really?

PR: That web series, I think, of videos.

EL: Yeah.

PR: He does three jokes if you can find it online.

EL: And he kills.

PR: He’s awesome. His timing, his face, he is awesome. But, here’s what I want people to do: Go on YouTube, search for Max Rosenthal, the restaurant joke.

EL: Right, okay.

PR: I’m telling you, as finely told joke as you will ever see and hear.

EL: So he did better in Old Jews Telling Jokes than he did on Somebody Feed Phil?

PR: Yeah, thanks Dad. No, he always delivers.

EL: Right.

PR: He’s always funny. And just this process of me trying to coach him through the joke, and my mother next to him, when I say, “Let’s try it again,” she goes, “I have to hear this again? I’ve heard it 500 times, this joke.” That’s marriage. That’s what you get. Yes.

EL: So, we haven’t even gotten to episodes that I want to talk about.

PR: Do what you want. It’s your show, Ed.

EL: And family, so-

PR: Don’t let the suits tell you what to do.

EL: We’re going to, this is going to be part one, this episode of Special Sauce. But, there’s so many more thing I want to ask you about. So, thanks Phil Rosenthal, and come back, Serious Eaters, next week.

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[Photographs: Netflix]

My friend Phil Rosenthal, the creator and host of the new Netflix show Somebody Feed Phil, is as much fun to talk to as he is to eat with. When I asked him how the show ended up on Netflix, he replied, “The way I sold the show…I said, ‘I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything….I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails.'”

When I sit down with Phil no subject is off limits. We revisited (admittedly at my behest) the moment in 2006 when I asked him to invest in Serious Eats. I just thought that the food-obsessed creator of Everybody Loves Raymond would leap at the opportunity to get in on the ground floor. “By the way,” he said, laughing, “my business manager told me not to give you money then. I was ready. I was like, ‘This sounds good.’ But he said, ‘No, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.'” That’s four “nos” and two “don’ts” for those of you counting at home.

If you listen, you’ll find that the Phil Rosenthal you hear on Special Sauce is the same guy you see on Somebody Feed Phil. He’s funny—really funny—smart, and generously spirited (he always picks up the check, on the show and in real life). And, oh yeah, Phil’s also a great storyteller who has somehow managed to maintain an optimistic but realistic outlook on life. Why? Because as his friend Ed. Weinberger, the legendary sitcom director and creator, told him when he was shooting the Everybody Loves Raymond pilot, “Phil, you might as well make the show you want to make because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway.” As Phil pointed out, “Isn’t that a great philosophy of life? We all get cancelled one day. Live your life.”

So enliven your life, Serious Eaters, by listening to Part 1 of the Special Sauce interview with Phil Rosenthal. You’ll be laughing in the first minute. (And for those of you who prefer their interviews in written form, we’ve included an edited transcript of the conversation below.)

Special Sauce is available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play Music, Soundcloud, Player FM, and Stitcher. You can also find the archive of all our episodes here on Serious Eats and on this RSS feed.

You Could Be on Special Sauce

Want to chat with me and our unbelievably talented recipe developers? We’re accepting questions for Special Sauce call-in episodes now. Do you have a recurring argument with your spouse over the best way to maintain a cast iron skillet? Have you been working on your mac and cheese recipe for the past five years, but can’t quite get it right? Does your brother-in-law make the worst lasagna, and you want to figure out how to give him tips? We want to get to know you and solve all your food-related problems. Send us the whole story at [email protected].

Transcript

Ed Levine: Welcome to Special Sauce, a Serious Eats podcast about food and life. Every week on Special Sauce we talk to some of the leading lights of American culture, food folks and non food folks alike.

Phil Rosenthal: The way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.”

EL: Today it is indeed an honor and a pleasure to welcome back producer, comedy writer, television host, Phil Rosenthal. Many people know Phil as the co-creator of the long running, multiple Emmy Award-winning sitcom, Everybody Loves Raymond. Phil was also the creator and host of PBS’s James Beard Award-winning food and travel show, I’ll Have What Phil’s Having. And now Phil is back with a moving and hilarious new food and travel show, Somebody Feed Phil. The first six episodes are streaming as we speak on Netflix. Welcome back to Special Sauce, my dear friend and fellow serious eater, Phil Rosenthal.

PR: Hello.

EL: It’s so good to have you. We had some fantastic pizza the other night. Did we not?

PR: Come on. We love Razza’s. And I guess, is it fair to tell the people maybe they’ll see some of that someday?

EL: Yeah. Sure.

PR: Yeah. All right.

EL: I mean, it’s up to you for what you can reveal.

PR: Yeah. All right. That’s all I’m revealing. But it’s no great reveal that Razza’s is some of the best pizza on the planet.

EL: Yeah. It’s in Jersey City. His original pizzeria in Maplewood, Arturo’s.

PR: Wow.

EL: He sold a few years ago, and then bought and opened Razza.

PR: This Dan Richer is just a genius.

EL: He really is.

PR: I mean, every detail of that place, just bread and butter. I’d go for the bread and butter.

EL: Right.

PR: Right? And then here’s a platter of ham with fresh mozzarella, Buffalo mozzarella that when you …

EL: It’s from New Jersey.

PR: From Jersey. Then when you push on this ball of mozzarella, it just squirts all this milk out all over the plate. It is so delicious and these wild pies that have hazelnut and honey and the honey has a provenance, right? They’re from, is it Rutgers University?

EL: Yeah, yeah. Everything, so the hazelnuts were grown at Rutgers.

PR: Oh, that’s from the, yeah.

EL: Who knew they grew anything but football players?

PR: Yes right, I’m a big hazelnut fan. Like, way more than football fan.

EL: Yeah. And the hazelnuts tasted sort of meaty. But he roasted them. It was awesome.

PR: It is awesome.

EL: I do want to get right into Somebody Feed Phil, which I think in its own quiet way is a groundbreaking show.

PR: Wow.

EL: I do, with its blend of food and travel and comedy, and of course it’s all filtered through your point of view. I mean it’s very, I can’t imagine anyone else filling the role that you fill on the show.

PR: Oh well, thanks. I mean, I’m certainly not the first guy to have this type of show, right?

EL: No, no that’s [inaudible 00:03:11]

PR: But I guess, if you’re going to do it, you may as well bring yourself to it.

EL: Right.

PR: You could make a generic version of the show.

EL: Right, of which there are hundreds of generic food and travel shows.

PR: You know what feels generic when you watch a lot of them? Is the editing.

EL: Right.

PR: Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang. God forbid someone, we should linger for too long? What if somebody turns the channel? Right? So now on Netflix, you don’t have to worry.

EL: Right. That must have been liberating.

PR: By the way, not to digress, but look at Letterman’s new show on there.

EL: Right.

PR: Like did you watch?

EL: Oh, I saw a little bit of the interview with Obama.

PR: I mean, first of all, it’s so beautiful to see him back.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Letterman. But to see him unconstrained, you don’t even realize how constrained he was by the commercial network requirements.

EL: Mm-hmm, interesting.

PR: You only have four minutes with this guest before you cut to commercial. That shapes the whole show.

EL: You’re right. And by the same token, I think you’re being on Netflix this time around does the same thing for you. It’s Phil Rosenthal unchained. Because what’s funny is-

PR: Does anyone really want that?

EL: Having watched all six episodes of this and the last series and many episodes of Everyone Loves Raymond. Was it Everybody Loves Raymond? I always get it wrong.

PR: Everybody. Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Just like, this is somebody.

PR: Right. So people are already saying someone.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: It’s funny that we confuse everybody, everyone, somebody, someone, that’s just a thing.

EL: Right. And it’s Everybody Loves Raymond is in a zillion countries. What do they say in Russia?

PR: I think it was going to be Everybody Loves [inaudible 00:05:02]. But I think they changed the name once it actually got on the air to the Veronins.

EL: The Veronins?

PR: The Veronins recently became the longest-running adaptation of an American television show in the history of the world.

EL: The Veronins.

PR: Veronins. So you could still see it, I think there’s even a spinoff, there’s a thing. Exporting Raymond is also on Netflix, if you want to see the genesis of, yeah.

EL: That’s the, Exporting Raymond is the documentary that, to me, was a crime that more people didn’t see, because it was-

PR: They’ve seen it now.

EL: Good, it’s so beautif-

PR: It’s on Netflix, I’m so happy.

EL: Yeah, it’s so beautifully realized and so fascinating.

PR: Yeah. They tried to release it in the theaters. It was disaster.

EL: Right.

PR: Because who wants to go see a documentary about a guy they never heard of before?

EL: Exactly. But it is true that this show seems so personal to me, not only in the way it’s shot, and knowing how much of it, a lengthy adventure it was to get it made the way you want it made.

PR: Yeah, they don’t hand these things out. And they certainly don’t hand them out and let you do them any way you want to do them.

EL: Right.

PR: So, and I would tell to you it took ten years?

EL: Ten years?

PR: Yeah, of it being in the back of my head. Maybe we talked about this last time, but quickly, I’ll just for you newbies out there, the genesis of this was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.

EL: Right.

PR: When we took Ray, I asked him on a hiatus.

EL: This is Ray Romano.

PR: Yeah. “What are you doing to do for your vacation?” “I go to the Jersey Shore.” And I said, “This nice. You ever been to Europe?” He goes, “No.” I said, “Why not?” He goes, “I’m not really interested in other cultures.” Even his own, Italian. He didn’t, so I go, “Well, we got to do that show.” We got to do that show where we take him to Italy as him, and we send him back as me, someone who’s excited about going to Italy. Or traveling in general.

EL: Right.

PR: And eating over there. And everything that’s beautiful that we know about going. Right? Took me a few years to get that done-

EL: Wow.

PR: Because that costs money to bring your whole crew. And so then-

EL: Yeah exactly. And that would up the budget on that episode too.

PR: Well, absolutely. So, but by year I guess, five-

EL: Right, when you’d won a zillion Emmys.

PR: We were happy to, they’re happy to do what we like.

EL: Right.

PR: So we do it. Well, don’t you know, the very arc of the character that I wrote, of him getting woke over there, I saw it happen to the person. I saw it happen to Ray himself.

EL: Wow.

PR: And that was so powerful to me, that I realized what if I could do this for other people? And from that moment, I’m going to say that’s the year 2000, I’ve wanted to do this show. Raymond ended five years later. So, ten years from then, I’ve been pursuing other things, trying to get other sitcoms on the air, knocking my head against the Hollywood wall.

EL: Right. People think that, and it’s something that I remember it was so interesting to talk to you when we first got to know each other.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Because I figured, oh, somebody has a hit television show where everybody’s done well. Everybody on the show, the creators of the show, the network. So, that must pave the way to other things.

PR: It opens the door, certainly. But then you got to stay in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: And they got to want you in that room. And they got to want what you do in that room.

EL: Right.

PR: What I found was, they wanted my name on things-

EL: Right.

PR: Being the guy from that other thing, but they didn’t really want that thing anymore.

EL: Interesting.

PR: That the business had changed in my nine years on Raymond into something else. And to be honest, I don’t know if Raymond would have gotten on the air the year we went off the air.

EL: Right. Sure.

PR: And by the way, we had trouble getting on the air the year we got on the air.

EL: Right. And that’s true no matter what medium-

PR: Yes.

EL: Because it’s the same thing with Serious Eats.

PR: Yes.

EL: And we should say that Phil and I got to know each other when our mutual friend Nancy Silverton, a great restaurateur, chef and baker in Los Angeles introduced us, and I took Phil and his fantastic wife Monica for a tour of Arthur Avenue in the Bronx.

PR: Another great reason to love Nancy.

EL: And then, of course, I asked Phil to invest in Serious Eats when, this was 2006.

PR: Yeah.

EL: When nobody was saying, “Yes.” When it was so difficult. But the reason I bring it up was not that, is because I say to people eleven years later-

PR: Yes?

EL: If I wanted to launch Serious Eats right now-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The climate has changed so dramatically in digital media that nobody would give me money now. Even though Serious Eats is seen as this great website with 10 million unique visitors a month.

PR: Yes. Well, by the way, my business manager told me not to give you money then.

EL: Right.

PR: I was ready. I was like, “This sounds good.” But he said, “No, no, no, no, no, don’t, don’t.” And I got to listen to him because I’m an idiot when it comes to financial things. I invest in restaurants, and I’ll fall in love with the restaurant and the chef, and I’m like, “Yes, we do it, we do it because I like to support the arts.” Right?

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s what I’m doing. But every decision is made by him.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Has to be.

EL: No, I know.

PR: He has to protect me from myself.

EL: Yes, because you are a soft touch.

PR: I think I am.

EL: You are.

PR: Jonathan Gold calls me the investor of first resort. By the way, how stupid am I saying this on the radio? But I can also say, it’s not up to me.

EL: Yeah, sure.

PR: Business manager.

EL: But it is true that landscapes change in the media world. So, you’re saying that Raymond wouldn’t have gotten made when you went off the air.

PR: Yes. That’s true.

EL: Serious Eats wouldn’t be created in 2018.

PR: Right. Yeah.

EL: Something else, it would be an Instagram account or whatever it would be, but it would not be a website, I will tell you with 100% certainty.

PR: And that the way that Serious Eats is so personal to you, and it is, has your [inaudible 00:11:27] all over it, then your taste and your values, so it is with a television show that I would make. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: And so, you might get offers to do something else, something you don’t like. Not doing it.

EL: Right.

PR: I don’t care.

EL: Yeah.

PR: I really don’t care about the money.

EL: And I’m also reminded of what you told me that Ed Weinberger, the famous sitcom director told you when you were having trouble making the pilot of Everybody Loves Raymond-

PR: That’s correct.

EL: In the way that you wanted to make it.

PR: Yes.

EL: And the studio involved kept giving you a hard time.

PR: Well, you get a lot of notes sometimes, yeah.

EL: Right. And Ed said to you, “You might as well make the show you want to do, because it’s going to get canceled eventually anyway.”

PR: Yeah, do the show you want to do because at the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway. And by the way, isn’t that a great philosophy of life?

EL: Yeah.

PR: We all get canceled one day.

EL: Right, so-

PR: Live your life.

EL: So, talk to us about what the big idea behind the show-

PR: Yeah.

EL: The new show, Somebody Feed Phil was.

PR: So, Anthony Bourdain has kicked open the door how many years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: 18 years ago?

EL: Right.

PR: Does this, all of a sudden, remember this is a food and travel show-

EL: Right, so-

PR: With a qualified person, a chef. And adventurer, even.

EL: Right.

PR: I watch that show and I go, “He’s amazing. I’m never doing that.”

EL: Right. And with a strong point of view.

PR: Absolutely.

EL: And well-written, high production values, a very specific look and feel.

PR: Right. So, I thought I’m watching him and I’m loving that show, and I still love the show. You see that it’s evolved into him becoming a pretty great journalist actually. He’s very serious-minded. He also, his tastes run to the darker side of things.

EL: Yes.

PR: I think he would say that. And to that’s where he’s really, really interested and he wants to explore political issues. I think it’s the top show on CNN.

EL: Yeah, for sure.

PR: For good reason.

EL: Yeah.

PR: But I also thought if I’m this guy, the way I sold the show, my show, I said, “I’m exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.” That’s really how I feel.

EL: A phobic Anthony Bourdain.

PR: Well, it’s the shape of the show, right? Food and travel show, but with a totally different character.

EL: Right.

PR: Totally. I mean, I’m the guy watching him, not really wanting to go to Borneo and have a tattoo pounded into my chest with nails by tribesmen.

EL: Right? Why?

PR: What’s just me. And I’m not going to Beirut to get shot at. And I’m not flipping over in my dune buggy. I’d also, when I travel, I’d like a hotel. I’d like a bed. Right? Is breakfast included?

EL: You’re asking for a lot.

PR: This is what I’m asking for. And I had a feeling I wasn’t alone.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also knew this: That the world would be better if we traveled more. That instead of just watching an adventurer from the couch, what if you got out there? And I thought if someone who sits on the couch saw somebody else from the couch getting up and doing it.

EL: Interesting.

PR: If this putz can go outside.

EL: Right.

PR: Maybe I can too.

EL: Right.

PR: So, two-thirds of us don’t even have a passport in America.

EL: Right.

PR: Wouldn’t it all be a little nicer? Would we be in the position we’re in today?

EL: Right.

PR: If we all experienced a little of someone else’s experience and understood it a little bit, just a little bit?

EL: Because it comes out of your soul, it does have this pro-social, political, with a small P, bent.

PR: It was never intended to be political.

EL: Right.

PR: Never. But suddenly, in today’s climate, wha-, the embracing of other people and other culture is political?

EL: Right.

PR: I’m just trying to be a person.

EL: Right. You’re trying to be a good human being.

PR: Please. Please.

EL: The bar is not set that high for television hosts.

PR: Yes. Yes, you’re right. It’s the bare minimum. “Hello, how are you? Oh, what’s this food? Oh, I’ll taste it.” That’s such a political statement?

EL: I mean, that’s what makes the show special. And I love Tony’s show, but he’s the outlaw with a heart of goal.

PR: Yes. And not the in-law.

EL: And you’re the brother-in-law with a heart of gold.

PR: That’s right.

EL: But I think, there is a difference. And there’s also other kinds of travel shows now too, that you must have been aware of when you were thinking about this show, because Andrew Zimmern does Bizarre Foods.

PR: Love him. I’m not eating that.

EL: Right. And you’re not eating that, right.

PR: I mean, [inaudible 00:16:32] only eating it, but almost by accident. Yeah.

EL: And there’s Guy Fieri, but you’re not dying your hair.

PR: He’s, listen, he does public service too.

EL: Yes.

PR: That’s a different show. It has appeal and it’s probably opening minds to other stuff all around the country. And God bless him. I heard that when he visits a place, the business shoots up, and it’s wonderful for them.

EL: Yeah.

PR: And good for him.

EL: Tell us about what happens in a new show, like what the format is, how you developed it, take us through the nuts and bolts of shooting an episode.

PR: Well, as I said, I had thought about this and tried to get it going in addition to all my other things that I was working on. This was always like in the back, and American Express came to me, I think, did I tell you about this?

EL: Yeah. Yeah, you went to London with Thomas Keller.

PR: Exactly. I didn’t know. I thought, “Oh, here we go. This will be a TV show.” But it wasn’t. It was, and they didn’t tell me this, they wanted it as a card member experience, meaning we would go there, shoot for a week. They would take the best of what they thought we captured on film, and kind of have a screening with a dinner for rich people. For card member, like Platinum card members, right?

EL: Right. Right up your alley.

PR: This is not what I wanted. And when I got there, I had, by the way, I had this vision that you see now of Somebody Feed Phil, that’s the vision I had. You’re going to go with Thomas Keller into, okay, if I have to bring a famous chef with me, may as well be Thomas Keller. He’s pretty freaking awesome. We’re friendly, and I love him. He’s a wonderful guy. But when I got there, there was some agenda. The producer booked us into 27 restaurants in seven days. All white table cloth.

EL: And all, my guess, is white table cloth.

PR: Yes.

EL: People hovering around to make sure your water glass is filled.

PR: Yes, when I travel, if I go for a week, let’s say, to London, I’m going to one of those places.

EL: Right. And even that is a stretch.

PR: Yeah. Yes. Well, I think we all like to do a splurge.

EL: Yeah.

PR: One big splurge when we go. Maybe two if you have to.

EL: Right. Right.

PR: But, 27. You can’t even imagine. That’s more than breakfast, lunch and dinner in seven days.

EL: Right.

PR: I was getting sick. I was like, when the food comes to the table, you want to go, “Oh boy,” not “Oh, no.”

EL: Right.

PR: Like “I can’t eat any,” and so, I only tell you this story to tell you that you learn just as much from what not to do in life.

EL: Of course. That’s always true.

PR: As you do from what to do.

EL: You just hope you get the chance to do it again.

PR: Exactly right. And that was a very tough time for me. Because here was ostensibly my dream, “Okay Phil, here it is. You got it.”

EL: Right.

PR: “Here’s your show.” Oh no. This is not right. So, by the time the next one came along, I knew exactly what the show should be.

EL: Right.

PR: From the negative experience.

EL: So, what is the show like now? Like what happens?

PR: I have ZPZ, the production company. I was asked what production company do you want to use? Why not the people that do Anthony Bourdain’s show? So, they have contacts all over the world. They know how to make these shows. Right?

EL: Right.

PR: My show isn’t going to be like his in terms of tone or even-

EL: Content.

PR: Content in some cases. Some of the content, by the way, overlaps.

EL: Right.

PR: So, sometimes you film something and I’ll hear that he did it 12 years ago.

EL: Right.

PR: And I’m like, “Oh no.” And then I see the two side by side, completely different take.

EL: Right.

PR: Even completely different dishes that we’re having.

EL: Sure.

PR: But even if it was the same dish, somehow it feels different just because of, you’re right, point of view. So, it’s really quite simple. The send me research of the places from their people on the ground in Lisbon. I’ll take my phone out and Google “best places to eat in Lisbon.” First of all, I’m looking for best places on Earth to go. Let me back up one step: Where do we decide where to go? Well, if my goal is to get you to travel, Mr. Sit in your chair and never move, and like only what you like, I’m going to start with Earth’s greatest hits. Because that, I think, will seduce you into coming. These places are popular for a reason.

EL: Right.

PR: People like them.

EL: Right.

PR: So let’s start there, and maybe that will be, if you see Paris, if you see Florence, if you see Barcelona. And you see how accessible it is, and you see lots of other Americans are going too, maybe that’ll be your first step. And I also knew that people who had been to those places never mind seeing it again. Especially if they’re going to go back and we can turn them on to the great stuff.

EL: I know. I just got back from Mexico City-

PR: Oh, how great. Yeah.

EL: After watching your episode, I was like, “I missed this, I missed this. This, this and this.”

PR: I miss it and I want to go back and get that.

EL: And I want to, I said to my wife, last night, it’s like, “Can we go back to Mexico City? I just watched the Mexico City episode.” So you do all this research.

PR: I want to go with you.

EL: Okay.

PR: That’d be fun.

EL: Yeah.

PR: Because what better weekend from America. It’s only a few hours away.

EL: No. Yeah.

PR: You’re in another world, and it’s amazing. And you think you know Mexican food here.

EL: Right.

PR: You don’t know how great it can be.

EL: So, you do the research.

PR: Yeah.

EL: Keep going.

PR: Yeah. Do the research, and then we start whittling it down. And we’re saying, and also, they’re presenting me not just with cool places to eat, but things to do. Because we want to break it up a little bit. We want to highlight without hitting you over the head in an educational way.

EL: Right, you don’t want to be oppressively bite filled.

PR: Exactly right. And you don’t want to be, also, “Now we’re going to learn about the Mexican people.” That’s a different type of show also.

EL: Right.

PR: But I want to get some of it in there because it adds to the appreciation of the place, the people, and the food.

EL: Right.

PR: And I also want to be entertaining. That’s job one. Just like on Raymond, if you didn’t have jokes, you wouldn’t watch.

EL: Well, that’s the thing that-

PR: So, I’ve got to have food, I’ve got to have humor. But these things are just the way in to what the show’s really about, I think, which is connecting with the people.

EL: Yes, it is about, and it’s the people that make the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: And did you know ahead of time, which people were going to provide the sort of underpinnings of each episode? Like each family? Or did that just happen when you got there? Because we should explain that in every episode, Phil ends up, most episodes at least, having a meal with a family. Or was that just-

PR: That’s just something that can happen to you if you travel. It really can. We think, what are the odds of that? The odds are very good.

EL: Right.

PR: That you’ll meet people and you might even be welcome in their home, or at least eat with them out somewhere. Or go to a barbecue. Get invited. You never know what is going to happen. But that’s the joy of it. And to me, I say this in the thing, food is the great connector. And laughs are the cement.

EL: I know, it’s funny, I wrote that line down and it was so Phil Rosenthal. It really is, because it’s your essence in six words or whatever it is. Or eight words. And it could be your epitaph.

PR: Okay. Do you know something I don’t know?

EL: Oh well, we can talk about that later [inaudible 00:24:34]

PR: I saw your card.

EL: But it is true, and the humanity and the humor are what come through in every frame.

PR: Thanks. It’s our most underrated value, I think, as human beings is our sense of humor. It’s how we choose our friends. I’ll go one step further. It’s who we marry, right? That the other stuff in marriage, it falls away a little bit as you get older. You know what I’m talking about.

EL: Right.

PR: But as long as you make each other laugh once in a while.

EL: It’s true. The most memorable moments and the moments I treasure, are when we’re in bed and my wife cracks me up.

PR: Because that’s all that’s left for you to do in bed. But I think if the laughs go, that’s when the marriage goes. You see it in people.

EL: Yeah.

PR: They’re not having fun anymore.

EL: So, the show if filled with your particular brand of humor. Talk about where your humor comes from.

PR: My parents.

EL: And yeah, your parents.

PR: Speaking of stars of the show.

EL: Right. We should say that is another element of the show.

PR: Yes.

EL: Are your parents are in every episode.

PR: My parents-

EL: First of all, do you pay them?

PR: Don’t start negotiating for them.

EL: All right.

PR: Because I know I’ll get taken to the cleaners by these people.

EL: Okay.

PR: I love their sense of humor. I can’t say it was always ice cream and rainbows in our house. We would yell and we would fight and I was a terrible child, and it was, but, on the other hand, laughs. I don’t think I’m alone in this. I think every family of certain ethnicities have this. “Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra!” “A ha ha ha ha!”

EL: Right.

PR: One second to the next. That’s the soundtrack of our lives, right? It just so happened accidentally that I Skyped with them from exporting Raymond, when I was over in Russia.

EL: Oh, you did? That’s where that-

PR: I was with a Russian family, and I couldn’t believe that the grandparents in Russia, first of all I was shocked and delighted to find that the Russian family that I’d been told was so different from the American family, was exactly the same.

EL: Right.

PR: Except the grandparents knew how to work the computer.

EL: Right.

PR: I said, “You know what Skype is?” “Yeah.” “You know what to do?” “Yeah.” “Come on, let’s try it.” Just like that. “Let’s try it.” Who are we calling? My parents.

EL: Right.

PR: Okay? And they’re the same age. And then, that’s all filmed, and that’s in the movie. Probably the best scene in the movie that I’ve been told. That’s what they, the most popular people in the movie, my parents. So, I’d be nuts not to remember that. And then I thought, you know what the modern day equivalent of a postcard home is? The Skype call, from wherever you are.

EL: Right.

PR: “Hey, here’s what I’m doing. Here’s in fact what I’m eating. Here’s the view out the window of where I am.” “Hi, look at this modern wonder,” said Grandpa. Look at what you can do. Well, it turns out that they’re the hits. Because they’re the most relatable. The parents in Raymond are kind of based on them. And so, they provided me with my whole life in every way, when you think about it.

EL: They are hilarious.

PR: I think so. My Dad, he’s 92 now, he tells a joke, I think, in the Israel episode. A guy was praying at the wailing wall, and somebody comes over. He says, “What are you praying for?” He says, “I pray for health. I pray for money. I pray for happiness?” And he says, “How’s it going?” And the joke is, “Well, it’s like talking to a wall.” But my father says it, “Well, you’re talking to a wall.” So, it’s okay, but the expression is, “It’s like talking to a wall.” That’s the known expression. So, I gave him another chance at it thinking I’ll only use in the show the good one. Now, I never do take two, but for 92-year-old Max, I’m going to give him another shot at the joke, because I’d like him to score. I think I would love a Max Rosenthal to have a show. I think Max would like to have a show where he just tells jokes. By the way, he was in Old Jews Telling Jokes.

EL: Really?

PR: That web series, I think, of videos.

EL: Yeah.

PR: He does three jokes if you can find it online.

EL: And he kills.

PR: He’s awesome. His timing, his face, he is awesome. But, here’s what I want people to do: Go on YouTube, search for Max Rosenthal, the restaurant joke.

EL: Right, okay.

PR: I’m telling you, as finely told joke as you will ever see and hear.

EL: So he did better in Old Jews Telling Jokes than he did on Somebody Feed Phil?

PR: Yeah, thanks Dad. No, he always delivers.

EL: Right.

PR: He’s always funny. And just this process of me trying to coach him through the joke, and my mother next to him, when I say, “Let’s try it again,” she goes, “I have to hear this again? I’ve heard it 500 times, this joke.” That’s marriage. That’s what you get. Yes.

EL: So, we haven’t even gotten to episodes that I want to talk about.

PR: Do what you want. It’s your show, Ed.

EL: And family, so-

PR: Don’t let the suits tell you what to do.

EL: We’re going to, this is going to be part one, this episode of Special Sauce. But, there’s so many more thing I want to ask you about. So, thanks Phil Rosenthal, and come back, Serious Eaters, next week.

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