#of ridiculously ooc stuff for DC characters (to be clear yours is just lack of understanding and is a p good assumption tbh)

[stealingyourbones]

Believe it or not, the Justice League has dealt with many many MANY gods, demons, 5th dimensional beings, 4th dimensional beings, eldritch entities, collectors of All Knowledge To Ever Exist.

They indeed would be freaking out, but they have dealt with things like this before. Darkseid is quite literally a god and they’ve battled him and his forces more times than I care to count. They are on full alert, they don’t know what they’re about to face, but they know that some gods that either simply are Far Beyond Caring (they’re so high power we’re literally inconsequential) towards what their actions will do, they just want to observe but are very very powerful, or don’t know the lengths of their destruction. They’ve dealt with beings that are of the sort. They won’t jump to conclusions but they are prepared for anything that might occur.

@jedipirateking idk if you know any particular comics that can emphasize my point besides general infinite crises and Darkseid fights but if you know of any panels I’d love to see them.

Clockwork has been waiting for danny for eons upon eons not to bring balance to the realms not to end the reign of pariah dark no

He has wait eons for danny to go through the complex steps of his life and death so he can rise to the rank and title of ancient of space for one reason and one reason only

Danny as ancient of space is the only person who can take a punch from the ancient of time without absolutely destroying them

And Clockwork just wants to have a fight like other ghosts but nook he has to be all mysterious instead cus he's the ancient of time he'd much rather just sock someone in the jaw but he can't for risk of sending them all through time

Clockwork just wants to all out brawl but these heroes keep making sure its not for villainous reasons, he just wants to brawl without hurting his buddies >:(

[thenightling]

The many things wrong with The Dreaming issue 5 (2019) ...I will not be kind...

Warning!  It’s long!

1.   Let us begin with the stupid Trumpisms.   I feel like Simon Spurrier thinks he has to punish or “re-educate” us poor, ignorant, Americans for electing Donald Trump.  It appears that no one has broken it to him yet that Trump lost the popular vote by over three million voters.  So why are we being punished because we’re stuck with him?  We’re already resisting as best we can or does he not watch the news? 

 There’s no way in Hell the color palette for this cover was an accident or happenstance.  For you non-Americans, the Republican (Trump) Party have a popular symbol.  An elephant that is usually drawn in red, white, and blue.

2.  The ugly and immature symbolism.   The Dreaming is bleeding color! (says the plot synopsis from the solicitations and DC Vertigo’s Facebook page).  Without diversity, without color, The Dreaming becomes bland, all white, and dreams die.  Do you know where I first saw this same literal story?   Rainbow  Bite in 1985!  Not only is it condescending and lacks the charm of the symbolism from The Sandman: Overture but it’s stolen, whether accidental or not, this is from a kids show from when i was a toddler in the 80s!    

3.   ‘Y’all.”   I know Judge Gallows is meant to be a cliche, old west style judge. But this is like watching a 1970s Doctor Who Brit actor put on what they think is an American accent.  The y’all(s) feel forced, and that takes a lot when it’s not said out loud.   He sounds like the damn chicken lawyer from Futurama. 

The accent, it burns!

4.    “His creator.”     It’s like Simon both knows and doesn’t know the original lore, all at once, it’s baffling.     As Lucien’s dying it looks like he’s half-reverted to a raven form.  @missghostlymoonshadow  you were right! 

 However as he was one of Dream’s ravens that indicates he used to be human (even if Lucien claims otherwise).   There was even some suggestion that he’s Adam.  Not sure about that as it’s very close to the novel Lilith but not impossible either.  

5. It’s Daniel the asshole, ladies and gentlemen!     I’ve complained about this before.  That whenever anyone other than Neil Gaiman writes Daniel, no matter how hard they seem to try, Daniel comes off as a f--king asshole.  Supposedly he has no choice, he has to leave.   But he’s so f--king cold here, so, so cold. 

You... Heartless... Little... Asshole...  

Morpheus was more kind to Dora in the flashback than Daniel is here!   WHY do people keep making Daniel crueler than Morpheus was pre-character-growth??!     Granted I’m starting to think there may be something wrong with Simon Spurrier, himself, that he thought what Lucien did on the steps of the castle with “I did warn you” is perfectly okay.  He doesn’t treat it like anything bad that he just uncreated a bunch of Merv’s friends on the steps of the castle.  In fact he treats Merv like he’s overreacting for being upset by it!  (Clearly he never read the start of Sandman: Overture or even The Dolls House.)  And yet we’re not supposed to be sympathizing with Merv’s behavior.  He made that clear.  Who (besides Dora) Are we supposed to care about?!??

His narrations try to keep us from pitying those that actually deserve pity.

Because how dare Cain actually give a damn that his brother is acting weird!

Unless Daniel turns out to be wearing a control collar ala X-Men, or has a magical-bomb implanted in his spine (Suicide Squad) this is going to be very hard for The Dream Lord to justify and even then it’ll be a little hard to forgive.  Daniel’s walking around, obviously still has access to some power.   Whatever his “I have no choice” is all about it seems like it can’t be quite equatable to Morpheus in the binding circle, in his glass bubble.   

6. I still want to know what the Hell happened to the griffon.   That griffon wasn’t of The Dreaming.  He was a gift from The Greeks.  Why did you replace him?  For the sake of cultural diversity?  There’s no in-story explanation.   Eve being any race she feels like makes sense.   But this doesn’t make sense and it’s jarring.  The Griffon wasn’t a dream entity.   See “The Wake.”

7.    Oh, look, someone skimmed Dream Hunters, or they didn’t and just picked up a few bits and pieces of Japanese folklore...

8.  MIlam Cascades is being far over-used and retroactively at that.   Trying to insert that into the original Sandman now doesn’t work.  I get the lore, I understand it’s origin, but really stop.  You’re just trying to make a mini Dream vortex.  or Vortexes... er Vortices.   

I NEVER want to be subjected to Milam Cascades again!  I’m starting to hate it as much as I hate the stupid revisions to Nuala’s necklace to make it a Macguffin, the existence of Echo, Cain and Abel’s sister wives, and Danny Nod.  (Creations from the first version of The Dreaming.) 

Do NOT retroactively describe things you want to insert into the original Sandman!  YOU are not Neil Gaiman!   Only he has a right to do that!  How dare you!

This is egotism. Not only is Milam Cascade being used as a mini Dream Vortex (the way Matthew’s death in the first version of The Dreaming was used as a mini knock-off of The Wake) but to have the audacity and arrogance to insert it into the original Sandman lore, to retroactively TAINT the original Sandman with this crap!    No.  if Neil, himself, did it, I would begrudgingly accept it.  But not here.  Not like this.   I don’t care if it’s “With Neil’s consent.”  He consents to a LOT of stuff, including the first, now defunct, version of The Dreaming.  

Wow, I’m more angry about that than I originally thought...

 9.   How dare you!  How DARE you do this to Lucien!    How dare you!   You saw how much it was despised that Matthew was killed off in the late 90s / early 2000s version of The Dreaming and yet you go and use Lucien like this?  And what’s worse is we’re supposed to pretend his behavior in issue 2 was okay because of it.  And no one reacted badly to him uncreating dream entities on the steps of the castle and acting like it was a form of punishment (”I did Warn you.”) except Mervyn, who was OBVIOUSLY in the wrong, because he’s an EVIL racist now!

 So, first you write Lucien badly, but I guess the memory fading was supposed to make that justifiable. Then you don’t even address that what he did was wrong, except through a character who you’ve gone out of your way to make unlikable and ridiculously out of character.   And now poor Lucien is dying and “Won’t be at peace in The Dreaming.” 

Thanks, Satan.

10.  Still no explanation for randomly turning Mervyn into a redneck Trump supporter and classist caricature.  The biggest OOC (Out of character) moment being when he made the “You people” comment to Erzulie in The House of Whispers comic book.  Do you not remember how Merv would look like a deer in headlights if caught backbiting Morpheus but you think he’d be racist to a Voodoo goddess to her face?!  This... Does not make sense...

Yeah, no....

He should be afraid Erzulie will turn him into a spiced pumpkin jam in her cupboard.  

11.   The only sword in Destruction’s realm should have been his own and he took that with him when he abandoned his post. (See Brief Lives.)

12.  He writes Cain as a knife-happy muppet that wants to stab everything.  We’re supposed to know something’s wrong with how Abel’s acting but this is what he thinks is normal for Cain?  Cain ONLY kills his brother, it’s his compulsion.  As they are both mostly immortal this is kind of a thing for them.  And Simon Spurrier has yet to justify having THE KEEPER OF MYSTERY spend nearly three pages explaining who and what he is.  (There’s no way in Hell he’s murder incarnate.  That’s like saying Bill Gates is Windows OS Incarnate.) 

_________________________

Things I’m okay with:

I’m okay with Dreamkin.  We can keep that term.  I’ve been trying to figure out what to call the creatures of the Dreaming for over a year and a half now.  Dreamkin works.     

The Morpheus flashback was... Okay...   I sort of liked those. 

Matthew’s still being written semi-decently.

The art is decent. 

There.  It’s done.  It’s written.   I’m going to go back to re-reading Goethe’s Faust again...

I’m tagging all the Sandman fans who may want to see this.

@jr4cats  @sorry-for-the-chocolate @deathlyendless @winterbirdybuddy @vagaryhexxx @endlessemptynight  

[hellacre13]

It’s been brought to my notice a clois shipper is taking my comments on CBR without my permission, screen grabbing and pasting in his tumblr to talk trash . So glad you think my comments so worthy that you need to pull out your straw man arguments instead of being honest enough to reply to me there. But I won’t give any credence to your cowardice. You know, some people have been making a habit of this. Taking what I and other posters have said on public forums and going on twitter and tumblr and trying to act all smug and smart and trying...TRYING...to ridicule us. But you know I tend to ignore these cowards. I don’t like wasting my time on shipping wars which is why I rarely get into to and fros with these folks here. Fact, I have most of them blocked. But this I decided has given me a great opportunity to share with my fellow comic fans. 

In retrospect, my post my post must have been thought provoking . 😉 😚 Glad to see it got him reacting. So I thought why waste it on CBR alone? I MEAN I DON’T HAVE TO ASK MYSELF PERMISSION. Let me share what it was about.  Here was my thoughts on that debacle Batman #39 before it was released based on the Bleeding Cool article that it seemed to have ripped from that notorious Action 571 by Joe Kelly 18 years ago. Now some people, usually clois fans, love Action because it, in their eyes, hold their pairing up as some great love because of this issue. But then there is another side to it and I ask people to sincerely think about this given the fact we have moved on in terms of how we view relationships and dynamics. I am not talking about political correctedness gone mad. Not at all. And no way I would be so disrespectful to call Joe Kelly the man a sexist or anything like that the way some clois fans attack Superman/Wonder Woman fans and writers because they so “hurt” fiction simply paired up two single people in one story line ie the new 52 despite them having tons of stuff in other books and media. Some writers just do stories using outdated troupes that have evolved into sexist plots because times change  and they at times  miss their mark with a section of the fandom or can be a hit depending which side of the fence you are on. And they should never be personally attacked for it. You can critique them but don’t for the love of god try to label people you don’t know anything about other than you read a comic that you don’t like. 

I hate Action #761. Not because of the premise that two people who have been attracted to each other, who have a long history of closeness in BOTH their comics...ie they actually have been shown in the narrative...it's not just dragged in left field... that they can end up closer or intimate. It's actually pretty normal I'd think if two friends with some unresolved tension, after they lose their spouses etc find solace or love again. It's morbid to be so guilt ridden that a dead partner you cannot recall and who you think is dead makes you close your self off to love, when it's clear you really really tempted. But this was never the point of Action #761 to explore love and loss. How can you as a writer if you want to sincerely tackle it when you full well KNOW you cannot shake the boat? It's not AU. It's not an altered timeline where you can follow through without messing up canon. You obviously, in such a scenario, will set up one character to be humiliated by doing something so absurd and heavy handed to try to prop a relationship that supposed to great because it's human etc etc...and being human is supposed to encompass the highs and lows of love, including tragedy and honoring a love by living etc. It tries so hard to beat you over the head Clark would rather be a monk for the rest of his life to honor one dead woman's memory. I did not come away and go aww that's love. I thought sheesh, what a dysfunctional love . Superman is actually crippled by Lois memory or lack thereof. Diana seemed pretty normal to me. And SHE never crossed boundaries or propositioned him. HE was the one raising it. And she backed off and never made him feel at all as if he did anything wrong by rejecting her. She was selfless in one vein and just a prop in another with no pov about how she dealt with it as a woman and someone who left behind friends and loved ones too. It was all about Superman and Lois to prop them at her expense. She comes off as the reject when in fact it's a story that used her in a cheap way knowing all the time that was the only outcome. Can't we all just assume Superman would be faithful to Lois while they together simply because he is that kind of a dude? Why did Joe Kelly need to drag Diana in as some temptation? Just like Superman fans hate when they use Superman as the punching bag to show the strongest character can take a beating by all and sundry, am I to assume Diana has to be used as the apple because she happens to be beautiful and THE premiere female? So, if you refuse Wonder Woman of all people...wow...you gotta love Lois so much. That's pretty sexist crap right there by Kelly. It was a poorly thought out story. But it was 18 years ago and we have moved forward in terms of the way women are used. So color me totally unimpressed King takes this lame troupe and play with it again.Because you can do nothing good with it. Neither Batman or Diana are single. It is not AU. Unless there is a plan to make them dump Selina and Steve. I hardly think this likely since why would DC make such a big deal of the Batcat stuff only to dump on it in this manner. BOTH are with their "love interests". Bruce has made a huge step in his canon. Love with commitment and pending marriage. Diana is shacked up with Steve Trevor. I am not fan of Rebirth. But she is with Steve cureently so why is there this need to muddy the waters at this stage? They could have done this easily when both were single. People might not like or might like it depending on your shipping preferences but at least they free, single and disengaged. They can kiss or date who they please as single people. Batman sure as hell has umpteen women in his books. Wanting a beautiful woman is not exactly strange for him. And King is cheating by trying to say they have some deep, great friendship based on one lame two parter? Because they spend some time in a pocket universe where time passes but is only two issues we to assume their friendship has the same magnitude as say Clark and Bruce's which has had so many books devoted to it? Diana pre new 52 and new 52 could never be seen to be Bruce's close friend and boast of a friendship to equal Superman and Batman or even a romantic dynamic as her other canonical love interests because they had limited stories together. King premises this as some great deep friendship because he wants to retroactively in a paltry two issues cement something they never earned? That's how lazy and arrogant DC and Batman writers are. It was done by Joe Kelly in the JLA run where Batman sucked Diana's face with no build up. It was done by Rucka in Black Night. Seems King is doing it again. Pushing something that just has not been earned. And using the cheapest way to try to claim it. It is baffling he uses Superman and Lois is positive ways and supportive of Selina and chooses to put Diana, a symbol of sisterhood in a story where you have to dredge up sex and intimacy to show how good friends they are. I don't get it. This arc is supposed to be about Batman's friends response to his pending marriage . So he and Diana couldn't spend some time bonding in any other way? What is the purpose? It does not sound at all good to me. So this is why I think that him even borrowing the premise or homaging or whatever he's done a poor choice. Diana will come off looking bad again and a prop or mouthpiece because it is a Batman book and about his issues. 

Then Batman 39 hit and I said this.

I'm sorry to say I told you so. But yeah. Whenever batman fan boy writers handle Wonder Woman this is what you get. Lazy ooc plots to claim her as hooked on Batman's irresistible charms. They don't build anything over time. They just slap it in your face. Bruce Timm. Joe Kelly. Greg Rucka, Now Tom King and no doubt soon Liam Sharp. Like I say it doesn't bug me two friends who are close and attracted to each other if they are single try a relationship. But Action wasn't about that. It could not any way explore anything in canon. And no one I know who liked smww or ww cared for it. It was one sided to ensure smll came out smelling rosy and Diana ...oh poor Diana...just rejected because if you turn down Wonder Woman...wow, what a man. What a love! So dumb. Like he couldn't just be seen as faithful because he's a loyal guy in a normal situation. They just needed to go all heavy handed to make a pointless point at WW expense.

Batman 39. Worse. The pacing in Action at least tried to show a bond already there knitting tighter...they did not need this issue to show they are friends. They already were close etc. Diana did not proposition Clark. They maintained boundaries and yadda yadda for a moment looked at each other and then Clark pulled back and Diana is fine with it blah blah. This shows a Wonder Woman in terms of the art, flirting heavily in her body language from the get go. Batman as you clearly see is still trying to be faithful in his body language.   She even suggests they get it on knowing he will go back to Selina. I just don't how to take that. No Diana I know would openly suggest that. It's so out of character. She's the apple/ temptress. She has no pov or remembers she has her own lover and life. He's a non issue. Poor Steve prob sitting in their apartment waiting for her.

Now if this is based on Rucka's Diana...then this is not the way I want my Wonder Woman. Not so lacking in empathy, emotional intelligence and wisdom . I don't understand how any one as old as she is with so much relationships under her belt as suggested by Rucka, cannot understand and respect the nuances and boundaries in relationships  at this stage. That she views all that she has "loved" as not able to teach her anything. It is baffling to me this Rucka Diana with all this delusion and madness nonsense. She's not a naive here but comes across as very self centered and stiff for a character who is about sisterhood and compassion. You'd think as she has her own lover she would empathize how much Bruce misses Selina...is bizarre what we have here. So whether they kiss or not is not the point. It's the set up and Diana's poor characterization. [/SPOIL]

DC  dropped the ball on Diana with Rebirth. Badly and this is where she is now. Batman writers are getting to dictate her motivations, character, personality in throw away arcs and they just don't feel right at all. No matter how people say they hate the new 52...Diana maintained her core personality under the pens of Azzarello, and Soule and hell even Finch and Johns wasn't all bad.

For those who never read either books...you’re missing nothing but Action is the lesser of two evils. You can go read them to at least keep make your own minds up but context is important in everything and timing. Personally I say don’t give DC $ for nonsense. I’m pretty sure you can get it online free to read or see many spoilers around. As much as I don’t like Wonderbat, if it had been done when both were single...(and to be fair it had been back in JLA in 2002 by Joe Kelly  and went nowhere)...it would have not been so bad as to raise so much ire. Pissed off fandoms, sure, but I am not so into shipping wars that I would be writing about any issue on this blog. Same way I ignore clois in Rebirth because they are not my new 52 Superman or Wonder Woman. So not sure why in God’s name DC wants to force it now when they did a Batcat engagement and choose to put Diana with Steve. I mean, are they crazy to be playing with that kind of fire when people are so sensitive the way women are used? And then that mini coming up by Liam Sharp is hinting at the same kind of crap trying to write retroactive wonderbat stuff just to have his own shipping preference. After Batman 39, I’d say, he needs to thread carefully.  I mean come on, DC. Treat Diana better. It’s no skin of Batman’s nose. He sells no matter his status quo. He can have a harem his fan boys don’t care. But DC chose to go a very important step and make Bruce take a huge decision to tell the woman he loves he wants to commit to her and her be a part of his life. This is not something you sully with this kind of thing at this time.  And let’s just say Bruce and Selina break up someway along the line does DC really want it to be because people blame Diana for it? Now is not the time for it. God, DC, you had your chance and never took it. Don’t mess about now. Now maybe King might have a better part two to subvert what we are seeing here but I still think using Wonder Woman imagery as the temptress was ill advised. 

And those trying to drag SuperWonder into this. Please. Our New 52 couple is dead. They are not part of this. Try reaching somewhere else. The clois shipper using my CBR comments, your example is so silly of trying to use DC Presents #32 as the same as Batman #39. That story was set in the Silver Age where there was an innocent whimsy and silliness in stories. Eros shot SM and WW with arrows and they kissy kissy for a bit while trying to find a cure. Both were dating Steve and Lois but most pointedly neither had told Steve and Lois they were Clark Kent and Diana Prince in those stories. Both Steve and Lois use to treat Diana and Clark like shit in favor of Wonder Woman and Superman back then. So let’s not even start with the faux outrage. It was just a different time and the Batman Brave and the Bold kids comic replicated it because again, it’s the context and kind of story. No one batted an eye lid nor cared Bats and Wondy kissed under a love spell. The innocence is there unless you’re reaching big time. 

Here is that lovely thread people. http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?106190-Batman-39-Could-Be-Borrowing-A-Plot-From-An-Issue-of-Action-Comics

And here is Bleeding Cool’s pov. 

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01/17/batman-39-action-comics-761-temptations-wonder-woman-spoilers/

Oh and since I am an admin on Hellyeahsupermanandwonderwoman...it has permission to reblog me.