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Not Just A Girl: Sad Girl

You can listen to the first episode with Hannah Medeiros here and on Spotify. Or you can view the footage of this interview on YouTube with English subtitles/closed captions here.

NOT JUST A GIRL: Tattoo Podcast

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Season 1, Episode 1: Sad Girl

Eddy: Hello friends, welcome to Not Just A Girl, the feminist tattoo podcast where every week I give you a glimpse into the lives and art practice of some of my favourite tattooers. I’m Eddy, thank you for joining me for the first episode of this new podcast. Today we will be discussing a return to art making, connecting with clients and tattooing in a post-COVID world.Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are the traditional custodians of this land that was stolen and never ceded. I am honoured to be on the ancestral land of the Awabakal people where this podcast is recorded and produced. I pay my respects to the Elders, past and present and extend my recognition to their descendants.

[intro music]

Eddy: Hello, my wonderful guest today is Hannah Medeiros joining us all the way from Rhode Island in the US, Hannah works at Torchbearer in Providence, and well, she will be, once all the madness subsides. Um, she does exquisite line work tattoos, um, with etching and stippling that are very romantic and detailed. Um, I got to meet Hannah when I was at Black Iris in New York last year and had the great honor of tattooing her and getting to know her a bit. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me today. Um, well tonight for you. Um, so how are things on your side of the world?

Hannah: Oh, thank you for, um, interviewing me and letting me be a part of it. Um, things are going pretty good. It's been, um, I'm currently living in a really small town that I grew up in of about 3000 people, so I feel pretty lucky to be away from the chaos versus where I was before in Brooklyn. Um, I was actually doing a guest spot in Providence. Uh, right as all of this started happening, which is about 45 minutes from where my parents live. Um, and then I started gradually seeing how crazy it was getting in New York and I was like, I, why would I go back to that?You know, when I could be in a much more like secluded, quiet place, I did not think I would still be here eight weeks later, so.

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely.

Hannah: Yeah.

Eddy: It must've been like a big change. Cause you've been in New York for a year now. Is that.

Hannah: Yeah it was a year. Yeah, actually April marked a full year. So it was a, it was an interesting way to end my end my chapter in New York, but I think it, it made sense just because it's a lot of us, um, I think are kind of struggling with the fact that we don't know how long any of this is going to last.You know, when we can start supporting ourselves again. So, you know, obviously like rent in New York is super expensive. And the thought of just hemorrhaging money every month, not knowing when I'd be back at work was kind of seemed like a, you know, a decision that kind of, the decision made itself for me to move back to Rhode Island. So it made the most sense.

Eddy: And what have you been doing like in Providence?

Hannah: Uh, I've been trying to keep busy with, um, I actually went to college for oil painting. And I haven't really touched it since my early twenties, and it's, it's been almost you know like a decade since I have done it in a serious way. Yeah, it's been a long time.Um, so I've been doing oil painting commissions and some illustration commissions here and there, but besides that, I actually work at, um, a horse stable, like walking distance from my parents' house. So I wake up at 6:30 in the morning a few days a week and shovel shit and, and ride horses. So it's definitely different than in New York.

Eddy: Oh wow.

Hannah: It went from one extreme to the other very quickly.

Eddy: That is crazy. Have you always had a lot to do with horses? Cause I tattooed a horse on you.

Hannah: You did. Coming full circle now. Um, yeah, I, uh, I used to ride as like, um a kid and a teenager I used to show a bit and, um. It's like a really time consuming and expensive hobby, especially as like a kid. So, um, I hadn't done it like as an adult really, I've done it here and there, but I saw a bunch of horses down the street and I basically like knocked on their door one day when I was walking by and I was like, I don't think they'd turn free labor down, you know? So I just volunteer there cause it gives me, yeah, it gives me a sense of purpose, you know, and I like an activity and something to look forward to. So.

Eddy: Oh, that's so,

Hannah: Better than being stuck in the house

Eddy: And who doesn't love pony club?

Hannah: Yeah, exactly.

Eddy: So like when, when you were attending art school, like you mentioned before, was that, was the end goal to be a tattooer or is that just something you were interested in at the time?

Hannah: Um, I've always wanted to tattoo since I was, um, since I was a little kid, I used to draw my friends in like art class with magic markers, and I was always just, whenever I saw a person with a tattoo, I'd be like, that is the coolest. I need to get into that club somehow like that and motorcycles. I was like, that's the epitome of cool. Um, but then I, you know, I went to college, um, to do oil painting. Um, but my main objective has always been to, to tattoo, but I didn't get into it until three years after I graduated college actually started with volunteering as, well, you know, I worked at a bakery and then I just started volunteering at the shop that I apprenticed at. So

Eddy: It's amazing.

Hannah: Yeah. The key is working for free until you know you have the opportunity to not. So

Eddy: Did you, did you know that it was going to lead to an apprenticeship or were you just like so keen, you get your foot in the door that you were like, I'm just going to do anything it takes?

Hannah: Yeah, it was, it was a little bit of anything it takes. So, I started, um, by getting tattooed by this woman, uh, Abby Williams, who. Um, most recently worked at Icon in Portland, Oregon, but she was in Boston at Brilliance Tattoo, which is where I apprenticed. So I was, um, I was getting tattooed by her. And every time I would come back, I would bring my portfolio for her and my eventual mentor to look at.Um, and they would, they would give me critiques and there was one day I was getting tattooed where. Um, you know, the phone was ringing off the hook and every time Abby would put our machine down and get up, answer the phone. And I remember being like, Oh, this is my opportunity right here. So I casually mentioned like, Oh, why don't you guys have like somebody who works the counter, does like, you know, the emails and, um, you know, the phone calls and cleaning and Elize.Yeah. And Elize was like, well, we're such a low volume shop cause it's appointment only. Um, she was like, I can't really justify like hiring somebody to do that. And I just was, you know, like I work full time, but I'll come in on my days off and work for free. You know, I don't think anybody would want to turn free labor down.Um, so that's how that started. And then I remember her specifically saying, just so you know, I'm not offering you an apprenticeship. This is for you learn how a tattoo shop works, and I'll give you a good recommendation if you're not a piece of shit and you work real hard. So I did that for I think, three months.And then, um, she had gotten back from a trip, um, from Japan, and she fake fired me. I cried. And then she, yeah. I wasn't expecting it at all. I really, I just remember thinking like, fuck, what do I do now?

Eddy: So you obviously loved being in that world like you would definitely go, I definitely need to keep doing this.

Hannah: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She was like, um, when she fake fired me, I remember thinking like, how did I fuck up so bad that this woman is turning down free labor at this point and telling me to get lost. The scariest thing was like I had no idea what I had done to fuck up that bad, but she was just pulling my leg, so it was a good one. I still remember vividly.

Eddy: That’s awesome

Hannah: Yeah, it was it was pretty good. It was pretty good.

Eddy: It's so cute that you cried about it.

Hannah: Oh yeah. My mom, actually, the first people I called was my parents and they have the voicemail saved of me crying, like I finally got my apprenticeship. Yeah. It was. I just remember like going into Eliza's shop, um, which is located in Boston.Um, I went in and I was like, it felt so different because it just like the vibe that they had there, it was like mostly women, like super supportive, very easy going, easy to joke with them too. Like I didn't feel like I had to like worry about what I was saying or you know how I was like presenting myself at all.It was very casual and just instantly comfortable right off the bat. So that's why I was like, if I'm going to try to weasel my way into anywhere, this is the spot I want to do it with, and that's the woman I want to apprentice under. So it very luckily worked out, you know,

Eddy: It must have been, um. Oh, it just must've been really wonderful to do an apprenticeship in a supportive environment where you didn't have to kind of put on all this bravado to fit in with the boys club.

Hannah: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I, you know, I hear stories about, um, you know, like different, I obviously worked with like a ton of people, men, women, um, and across the board. Um, apprentice stories are always like you know, not super glamorous, like from cleaning up, uh, your mentor's apartment and picking up like, used condoms off the floor to like, yeah, that's, that's what I've heard. Um, you know, I've, I've heard some like disgusting, just like shit like that where it's like. You know, I, I can't really relate to it at all, you know, luckily. Um, I mean, I

Eddy: That’s how it should be, yours should be the story of how it happens

Hannah: Remember at least being like, Hey, can you come to my awesome apartment and cat sit for me? I'm going to have a rotisserie chicken in the fridge for you when you come over.

Eddy: I'm not gonna lie. I get my apprentice to cat sit for me too. But she loves it.

Hannah: Yeah, it's perfect. It's like, alright, cool. I get to hang out with cats and eat chicken out of your fridge, that's sounds amazing.And hang out in a really nice apartment, you know? So yeah, it was, she was like the perfect mentor. We have, um, I talk to her all the time. Um, we have kind of like a big sister, little sister relationship, and I can pretty much talk to her and go to her for anything, which is really nice. Yeah. I've, I've heard.Like nine times out of 10 people have like very tumultuous, like venomous relationships with the people that they mentored under. You know, like I've heard stories of people just having their shit boxed up and like put outside of the shop and it's like, you're gone. You know? Kind of shitty, so I'm glad. I don't know what that's like, you know?

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, like I like myself and many of my colleagues, like we had horrible starts in the industry and we've always discussed how, you know, if people were just given a chance to learn how to tattoo in a safe environment that they will be able to do so much better because they're not combating like the posttraumatic stress that comes along with various kinds of bullying or abuse. They literally just focused on tattooing and that just, I think is amazing in itself.

Hannah: Yeah. Well, it's just like how much better could you be? You know, it's just like, it'd be such an elevated version of yourself if you don't have all of those things working against you. I just, I don't understand the point of it cause it's not going to benefit anybody, that kind of environment. Really, nobody thrives in that. Yeah. To make you work out of fear.

Eddy: I find that I work harder when there's like a positive result, so you know, I'm more willing to do more for someone if they're going to show me kindness in return.Hannah: Yeah. That's a good rule of thumb.

Eddy: Absolutely. Yeah. So like how long have you been tattooing for now though?

Hannah: Um, so I got, I first started my apprenticeship, I think it was five years ago. Um, and in Boston it's a two year apprenticeship. Um, and then after that I worked for Elize for two years, and then one year in New York. I think it's been five. It's just been over five years. I think

Eddy: You're doing

Hannah: it feels long, huh?

Eddy: You're doing such amazing work with someone whose only like a baby tattooer.

Hannah: Thank you. I appreciate it. It's still very much like we all know it's, you're never not learning though. Some days I go into the shop, I mean, not recently, obviously, but I'd be like, I think i forgot how to tattoo or do I actually know what I'm doing? And then. It's just like a constant, like, I think it's like a big mental thing as well of, you know, like balancing confidence and, you know, ability. Um, yeah. Half the time I feel like I don't know what I'm doing now.

Eddy: Same, well, I've been in it 10 years now and I still have these moments where I'll like, look at a tattoo I've done. I'm just like, who am I kidding? Like, what the, what do I think I'm doing here? And then you've gotta constantly fight that imposter syndrome.

Hannah: Yep.

Eddy: You've got to have enough confidence that your customer feels good, that you're not going to screw up, but then also like, I think you still have to have a little bit of that fear because it keeps you driven,

Hannah: Oh, of course. Yeah, for sure. I think like once you go to the shop and you're like, I can nail that super easy. That's like the one day where your hand like slips or you like, fuck something up. Yeah. At least that's how it goes for me.

Eddy: I know my most confident days tend to be my worst tattoos.

Hannah: Yeah. When you walk into the shop feeling good and you leave later being like, well, what am, what else can I do job wise? What am I eligible for yeah.

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you like. Like you said that you've been doing oil paintings for a while and I've been seeing the ones you've been doing in isolation and they're amazing. Is like, is your art making process similar to your tattoo making process? Like do you have similar inspirations and drives like, or do you see them as two separate focuses.

Hannah: Um, honestly, I see them as two separate things. I think aesthetically, um, subject matter wise, uh, my interests are always pretty consistent. It's, um, like mainly like female portraiture, figurative work, um, and then, you know, like botanical stuff. Um, that's always like a crowd pleaser. But. My, my go to is like moody kind of like women and stuff.Um, which goes for both oil painting and, um, tattooing. But the actual like process and, you know, cause all of my oil paintings are, you know, like rendered full color. Um and illustrative, but more like a little bit more like realistic. Um, I'm, I'm a very like, um, like anal person when it comes to like details.So I'll use like these really tiny ass brushes and I kind of try to, um, be aware of like the rigidity that comes along with that. So I'll, you know, every once in a while I'll do a painting where I'm like, these are the brushes I'm using. It has to stay within a certain size because that forces you to be a little bit looser.And I also, you know, like all of us, we're always looking at like, um, other artists work inspirations and stuff online. So, um, there's so many different ways that, um, you can approach an oil painting like style wise. So like put a lemon, like, you know, still life in front of somebody and everybody's approach to it will be a little different.So I'm always looking at how everybody does it and trying to take, you know, little bits and pieces from other people where it's like you know the, you know how, how they're actually like applying the paint to their palette choices and stuff, but it feels way different than tattooing, that's for sure.

Eddy: Yeah. I feel like painting sometimes is more daunting than tattooing because. I don't know. Tattooing is so incredibly methodical and you kind of have, I dunno. For me, I find tattooing easier than painting, which is strange to say, but with painting, there's so many options for what you can do. Like,

Hannah: Well, exactly. Yeah.There's only one way to like pull a really good line in tattooing but like you could fucking finger paint. You could like do whatever with painting, use any kind of brush you want. So there's definitely. I think that's what I find fun about it is like the um, the opportunity to like make choices and be like really, um, specific about those choices you're making. Cause you know, the effect you'll get, you know?

Eddy: It’s a good opportunity to loosen up

Hannah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is good. It's, it's a good, um, cause I don't tattoo really with any color unless somebody like specifically asks for it. If anyone asks me for color, I'm like, you should not be coming to me for this i'm terrible at it. But. Well, I find like tattooing with color really overwhelming.There's just so many options, you know, and it takes, um, line work. And the kind of like work that I do is, is really quick and I have it down to like, you know, I know how long it'll will take me, but whenever I do color, I always think to myself, why am I so slow? All my coworkers are so much faster at this. And then I just start to like get in my head about it.

Eddy: I'm definitely the same with color cause there's so much take into a account. It's not just picking a color scheme that works. It's understanding how those colors will sit under the pigment of the skin and how they might change. And black is just so much more predictable.

Hannah: Yup. Exactly. That's a good point. Like, yeah, like all of my canvases, like for painting are the exact same. It's very consistent. I know what I'm going to get, but yeah. Was what people like and it depends on like the actual body part too. You know, everything's so, there's so many variables that go into it.

Eddy: Yeah, it's very daunting.

Hannah: Oh yeah.

Eddy: Blackwork. I think also like, you know, you said that you're quite anal and

Hannah: yeah

Eddy: I definitely relate to that, and I think we have a similar style of work, but you know, with color, again, you've got to like step outside of control a little bit. Whereas with blackwork in particularly just doing lines, it's very controlled. It's very measured. It, it doesn't like, yeah, it doesn't challenge you in ways you're not used to. It's just more like technical and scientific almost.

Hannah: Yeah. No, I agree with you completely on that. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, for sure.

Eddy: So, um, I know one of the things like you mentioned to me was, um. The relationship that you have with your customer. Um, when I met you in tattooed you, um, I felt really comfortable with you and like, you know, you're very easy to get along with. Is that something that is a part of your tattoo process as well?

Hannah: Yeah. I, um, I definitely aim for that kind of environment, like with my clients. Um, over the years I've gotten pretty good at like reading, uh, you know, like reading a room. So if I have a client and I can kind of pick up on the fact, like, some people aren't conversationalists, they don't care, they just want to get their tattoo.That's fine. Like, I have no problem with that at all. Cause, if anything, I probably worked faster when I'm not like having a conversation and interacting with people. But, um, yeah, like I, I love chatting with people. Some of my really good friends, um, actually were clients of mine. Like, especially when I first started tattooing and then they kept like coming in and then I'd be like, Hey, I think we're best friends now.We should probably go get dinner and a drink, you know? And. Uh, and in New York, like I would have some of my buddies. Um, cause a lot of my clientele in New York was traveling from New England in particular, which some of them were driving like four or five, six hours, like one way to come to New York. So.You know, some of them that I've been tattooing for years, I'm like, dude, crash on my fucking couch. I live like right around the corner. We'll like get dinner after I tattoo you. So it's just like, obviously I don't do that with everybody. Um, that's like kind of a, you know, a special kind of instance. But, um, yeah, I really like, you know, like making my clients laugh and stuff, you know, like, um, I like making like gross jokes, you know, and like being kind of like.Like poop jokes and stuff, you know? Um, but, and then talking to like reality TV, like what kind of trash were you watching? Um, that kind of just like makes it a more like friendly environment, which I, I pretty much aim for with everybody, unless I get the vibe, they don't want me to talk and I stop. So

Eddy: I think like. It's so important to make the space more comfortable for customers and to make them feel more relaxed cause they're going to remember the whole process in a much better light. And they're probably gonna sit better for the tattoo if they feel like a positive connection.

Hannah: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I've like, a lot of my clients will, you know, and I, it's important to like remind people that we're not like a source of entertainment at the same time.Sometimes, like I don't mind being one, but I, you know. A few clients where they'd be like, Oh, I love that you talked so much. Like my last person was so awkward. They didn't talk at all. All they did was tattoo me. And then I, you know, I always remind people like, well, you know, you weren't paying them for like a hangout session to like, you know, be entertained and like, laugh.You got a really good tattoo from them. That's why you were paying them. They were concentrating on their work. Not everybody talks, you know, your ear off like I do. You know? Um, so I think that's like also an important, um, thing to remind people is that it's like you got really good tattoo. You know, ideally it'd be cool to have some banter, but if you didn't, that's okay.

Eddy: Yeah. I think that's really good that you actually take the time to educate your customer because that happens a lot where they'll complain to you about another tattoo or, and you're like,

Hannah: Yeah,

Eddy: It's just a part of the process and you need to respect that they have their own way of doing things.

Hannah: Yeah, yeah, no.

Eddy: We shouldn't be compared like that

Hannah: Yeah. And it almost like whenever they do say it, it always kind of sounds like negative. Like, Oh, they didn't talk to me the entire time. It was super weird. It's like, well, I kind of understand that. Like at the same time, you know, it's everybody's different. You can't expect the same kind of experience.You know, going from, cause everybody's different. You know, everybody has a different work approach. And so as long as they're professional and you've got a good product,

Eddy: As long as you're treated with respect and kindness.

Hannah: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yup. But you will. There've been so many times where I have like, I feel bad cause everybody at Black Iris is like, I'm loud.Like I have a really, really loud voice. You can like hear me preach and there are so many days where I would, me and my clients would be like laughing. I'd be like sweating and like crying and like, yeah. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's what I aim for. It's like I want to almost pee my pants laughing when I'm tattooing you. Sometimes

Eddy: Its so nice when you have customers or clients when rather that you can be friends with. I've, I've had a few where I've tattooed them and I'm like, Oh my God, I really want to be their friend. Is it appropriate for me to message them and to invite them to dinner? And like, it's like that really awkward, like even do you want to be my best friend.

Hannah: Yeah. It is kind of like a weird, like treading on, you know, like personal relationships and then professional. But I think as long as it's like a mutual thing, it's, it's really not that big of a default. Like, Hey, can we hang out. Well, it's usually just like at the end of the session I'm like, I'm hungry.Are you like, let's go grab a pizza or something. You know? It's just, it makes it a funner experience. Cause I, I like, um, I've been tattooed obviously by a lot of people. And whenever it's like that, I just feel so much better about it. I'm like, Oh, they actually like, liked hanging out with me. That's cool.

Eddy: It's like they don't just want me out the door. This is awesome.

Hannah: Yeah...go home.

Eddy: So. Obviously you must miss tattooing a lot right now because it's been eight weeks and there's not really a you know, an end in sight to this, but do you have any plans for your work for when you do go back, like, do you have like a fresh take on what you're going to do? Like are you going to incorporate, um, your other art making more into the process?Like, do you have any ideas for what you're going to do? Hannah: That's a really good question. I've actually been thinking about that. Like the longer this goes on, um. I'm kind of like, well shit, cause I haven't done any drawings. Like, you know, like how I have, like a lot of us have like binders of like flash and pre-drawns. I haven't done one in eight weeks.

Eddy: That’s ok.

Hannah: So yeah, it's, it's, you know, when I felt really bad about it and every once in a while I'll be like looking at references and I'm like, Ooh, that'd be a really cool drawing. And I've been kind of compiling like reference images for when I do feel ready. And I think once we start to get like maybe dates I'll kinds of, you know, strike when the iron is hot. Um, but I've just been kind of, I've turned my brain off a little bit to the tattooing stuff, you know.

Eddy: You need to though

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I just, I want to, I just hope I remember how to tattoo

Eddy: It's like riding a bike. You'll be fine. Yeah.

Hannah: I just keep thinking about it. I'm going to have to practice on my boyfriend. Who's going to be my first Guinea pig. I think so I've already told him. I was like, I need to practice on you first. So it's, um, I think like. You know, I always kind of struggle with what kind of tattoos that I want to, I want to put out there, like getting a request for like, um, a specific thing is one thing. But if, you know, when it comes to things that I am like, um, you know, design-wise have control over, like what, what kind of imagery and what kind of, you know, tattoos do I want to actually be like putting out there in the world.I've been kind of struggling with that a little bit. Um, I love like, you know, obviously like the sad girls stuff. Um. But there's always, I see some people that do like the most clever kind of like compositions and like tricks design-wise in my brain. I wish it like, thought like that more. And I kind of just get like, Oh shit, my, my stuff's like not creative enough.And I, I want to make sure that it's like consistent, but also has, um. Like variation and looks interesting and doesn't just stay stagnant and looking the same over time. And I think that's, that's kind of the challenge is making sure that I look back on my work, you know, a year from now, you know, and not think, well, it looks the same.You know? It's like, I think I, everyone's big fear is looking back on work from a year ago and being like. Shit, my work doesn't look any different. You know, I always look at like, I found a bunch of my college paintings here and I'm about to bring them to the dump because they fuck it. Like makes me feel so bad.But then I look at, you know, the newer stuff and I'm like, well, that is just a, you know, that very distinct and obvious progression of improving and learning. So I always want to look back. Yeah. I always want to look back and think. Oh, I could have done this, this, and this to make this better. If I did this tattoo now, this is how I would have approached it design-wise, and I'm technically as well, so we'll see.What about you?

Eddy: I, I'm very much in the same boat as you. Like I'm kind of at a point where I want to like find a subject matter that speaks to me. Make sure I'm like progressing technically as well. And it's like this whole thing of like, you know, I'm not as imaginative or as creative as I would perhaps like to be, but that's okay because I know I'm, I'm able to do technical work. So it's just finding a balance and also trying to let go of all these like ideas of what I'm supposed to achieve because it's all bullshit. Like this idea of productivity and of like reaching certain heights. That's, that's all different just capitalists crap, but like the actual art-making, I think. If we let go a little bit of all of these expectations of improving, we can enjoy the process a bit more, but at the same time, we have a responsibility to our clients to actually continue to improve and we have a responsibility to tattooing as well, like so that we can contribute to a much brighter future.It's, I don't know, there's so many, like different things going on in my head.

Hannah: Yeah. Well I think everything that's happened now is kind of forcing us all to kind of slow down whether we want to or not. And like be more thoughtful and like, you know, cause it's not like this a race to like produce into work. I remember like that one the year I lived in New York, I just remember trying to like work as much as I could, you know, to pay my rent to like, do it, to like do everything.And I wasn't actually. I mean, all the tattoos I did we're good. But it's just like, and I felt I felt good about them as well, but it's, I would like to be able to either, not be more like more selective, but really give the piece the time it deserves and like really be more thoughtful about it. You know?

Eddy: It'd be good to be more present in the moment.

Hannah: Well. Yeah.

Eddy: Of the tattoo you do rather than worrying about the next one, like

Hannah: Exactly.

Eddy: I think it coming out of this, I'm definitely going to be scaling back how much I tattoo and try to get a more balanced approach. Like more painting, more drawing, more tattooing, like more evenly rather than tattooing every day. And then like struggling to find the time to paint.

Hannah: Yeah. Well that's exactly it. Cause I've had people be like, well why haven't you been painting? And it's like. Well, I hadn't painted since before my apprenticeship. And then when I got my apprenticeship, I was working six, seven days a week between two jobs. And then it's like when you're tattooing, you're working from home as well, you know, doing your drawings, your reference hunting, emails, and it's just you need time off, you know?

Eddy: It's physically exhausting

Hannah: Yeah.

Eddy: And there's a lot of emotional labor in what we do.

Hannah: Oh yeah. It's a labor of love for sure. And I think it's, it's like taxing, not only physically, but, um, the pressure of it that mentally as well. And I think, um, you know, it's going to force a lot of us to kind of, you know, reprioritize how we spend our time, you know, how much energy can we put into things and you know, who we spend time with and. You know, which is a good thing, you know?

Eddy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And those of us who like have had a moment to consider our process and to consider our goals in tattooing, I think we're going to position ourselves to do better work in the future and to be happier with the work we do and perhaps live a much more fruitful life.

Hannah: Yeah. That's, that's the goal, you know? Yeah, that's, that would be good for sure.

Eddy: What do, what do you think tattooing is going to look like post COVID?

Hannah: I don't know. I mean, we're all going to be, you know, decked out and like all kinds of PPE shit. But, um, yeah, I have some friends that I've, I've chatted with that think it's going to go underground again, or that States will make it illegal effort, like, you know, broad spectrum of everything.You know, people will be doing it out of their houses going forward. Um, I think it'll, um, kind of make people think about it a little bit, maybe more seriously, just because, um, you know, like the shop that I'm going to be working at in Rhode Island, um. Was walkin and appointment. But, um, because of what's going on, I think everything has to become like appointment only.So it might kind of, you know, take out that element of like, spontaneity for some people and like, you know, like, let's just go get tattooed. Like, don't, you can't really do that anymore. Like, you have to make an appointment, you know, you can't bring your buddies in on, the big thing I think is, you know, no guests

Eddy: that's going to be so good for tattooers. Hannah: Oh God, thank God. Cause I'm always that person that like, can't tell somebody to like, you know, don't hover over me cause I, I'm, I have like really bad resting bitch face. And um. But I'm completely like painfully aware of it. So, uh, and my tone can kind of sound, uh, involuntarily harsh sometimes.So like I'm very cautious about like what I say and how I say it or try to be at least. Um, so I never ever tell people like, you can't have a guest, you know, I'm always like, no, make yourself comfortable. Make yourself at home. Because. I think for women in particular, um, you always are worried about being like, you know, the bitch or coming off as like, Oh, she's just a bitch.Or like, you know, you know, I've heard it before and I'm aware of it. So I try to kind of be hesitant or cautious about how I speak, but I'm very excited for the no guest policy. You know?

Eddy: I think as women, we're

Hannah: Eating. Like eating food over my shoulder, like while they're watching something, I'm just like, dude, like garlic knots come on

Eddy: on when they lean on the table and it rocks it. Like,

Hannah: Oh, dude, I've had, yeah, like, um, significant others. Um, like, you know, basically sucking face on my table. I just like sit there, like, how are you so like unaware of my presence, you know. Like, I'll just wait. I have to go to the bathroom. I'm just going to leave. Take a moment to yourself.

Eddy: Just have a moment like, yeah, calm the fuck down

Hannah: like I guess I'm going to look at my cell phone, you know, take my gloves off and do that. Um, yeah, I think, um, yeah, they're, they're going to be good things and bad things. And who knows if it'll ever really like, go back to like normal. Um,

Eddy: I mean, do we really want to go back to normal though? That's

Hannah: Probably not, yeah. I mean, all the things that are going to happen could be improvements for sure. You know, so

Eddy: We might have to fight for it at some point, but like we have potential to improve our situation.

Hannah: Oh yeah, for sure. And I think, um, I've had a few conversations with other tattooers about how they think, um, what's going on will be kind of a deterrent for people to come into tattooing.Actually, you know, because it's, you know, you're an independent contractor. There are no benefits, no health insurance, no retirement fund, unless you set your own. Uh, um, and it's super inconsistent. You know, like something like this could just, we're all unemployed, you know? Um, so I've had people be like, Oh, it's going to be awesome.Nobody's going to want to get into tattooing anymore. So I've heard like, Oh, why? And I've heard everything recently. I'm sure you have too all the theories and stuff, but

Eddy: I think people will always want to get tattooed, into tattooing the way that people always want to get tattooed, I think. Yeah. I think because it's been a part of many of our cultures for the longest time, like people have been getting tattooed for more than 6,000 years.Like, yeah, from what we know with evidence. And so I think it's just a really important part of us, like the amount of messages I get of people just desperate to get tattooed when we're open, I really don’t think it's actually going to be that hard to find work.

Hannah: Oh, no, no, it's, yeah, I, I, um, it's awesome. Like I've had people like ask, like, Oh, can I put like a deposit down?Like now for, you know, sometime in the future. Um, I've been turning that down just because I don't like taking people's money without like, being able to like, guarantee them something, you know, it just kind of doesn't feel right. But. Um, yeah, like a lot of my clients have been like getting really stir-crazy they're working from home.They're like, Oh my God, I can't wait till I get tattooed. I'm like ready as soon as you are able to. So it's really good that people are not only like, you know, ready to get tattooed. But also I've been seeing a lot of people supporting, you know, artists, you know, like us, like buying, you know, the prints we're selling or the paintings, cause you know.Paintings and like art, you know, while I do think they're important and tattoos, they're not like a necessity for like somebody to have, you know? So it's, it's like it's a luxury item, you know? And it's, it's really nice that people are willing to spend their money on something that they wouldn't, you know, it's not brain surgery. We're not doing the Lord's work, you know? But it's awesome that people that were able to do what we do. Yeah.

Eddy: Yeah, tattooing like is definitely a luxury. But I like, I do think that just art in general is a really integral part of the human experience. Seeing all of our clients coming through and buying merch, even just sending nice messages or replying to stories is so heartwarming, we're very lucky.

Hannah: Yup. Yeah. No, I agree. Like it's the little like DMS every once in a while of like, Hey, like this is my healed tattoo. I can't wait to get another one once all this is over with and it feels really good. I don't think people realize like how much of an impact that makes for us. So

Eddy: Even little things like that aren't tattoo related. Like I have some clients who've sent me messages saying, Hey, I just watched this show and I feel like you might like it and enjoy it while you're having downtime. It's just like, Oh, that's so kind thanks for thinking of me

Hannah: Like that show ah Schitts Creek. I like preach that shit like it's the gospel to people and all of my body like and all. I've had so many of my friends and clients getting into it now and they'll like tag me in it being like, I finally started watching it and I'm like. That and Buffy. It's just like, it's Buffy and Schitts Creek that I, I'm like, if you haven't watched these things and you're not into them, I just, I can't be your friend. I don't know what's going on.

Eddy: First thing I did in lockdown is like, start rewatching Buffy and Charmed

Hannah: Yeah, I've got to, I've got to rewatch Buffy. I usually do it all the way through once a year, you know, we kind of have to, it's so good.

Eddy: The legend.

Hannah: It's perfect. Yeah. Every time I like anyone's like, Oh, what's your favorite show? I'm like, yeah, I've got a tattoo of Sarah Michelle Gellar on my back. Like it's definitely buffet. So she's the best.

Eddy: I Actually got to tattoo Buffy. on one of my closest friends, and that was so fun.

Hannah: You know, I've seen that tattoo. You've done a Willow too. I'm aware of all of that. Yeah. Like I know exactly which tattoo you did. I know. Cause I was like fuck why don’t I have that. So good.

Eddy: Amazing.

Hannah: I love it.

Eddy: Oh, that's so good. Well, I might as well let you go. It's been so good talking to you. Thank you.

Hannah: It's been real good catching up.

Eddy: Yeah, I know. I was. I probably would have caught up with you in

Hannah: I know, right? April, right?

Eddy: Yeah, I would have been guesting there. It would have been awesome.

Hannah: It's such a blow. Yeah. They. Black Iris was about to have a bunch of, um, like artists that I'm like, you know, you know, like you, um, another one is a Ruby Wolfe. Their work is so good, but fuck, like, God damn, the timing is so bad. Like, obviously that's, you know, not much in the grand scheme of things, but I was, I was pretty bummed out, but I'm sure

Eddy: I had like this long American holiday planned I was going to visit, um. Like Black Veil. I was gonna do Literary Ink like I was going to do Strange Love in LA. I had all these plans and then had to cancel it last minute, like two days before the trip,

Hannah: well this, this year, I'm like turning 30, and I remember being like, this is the year I'm going to travel so much. I have like, I had a note, uh, on my, on my phone and all of the fucking places I was going to go, like, you know, within America. And then like abroad. And I was like, this month I'm going to go here. This month I'm going to go there, and then all of this shit just hit the fan. I was like, this is not mine. This is not my year. It's not anybody's here. Not looking good

Eddy: Everyone I've spoken to had all these incredible grand plans like this was their year.

Hannah: Yeah.

Eddy: 2019 was a shit show. 2020 was going to be their year. Maybe not.

Hannah: No. Well, you know. Yeah. Well, trying to make the most of all we can.

Eddy: That's it. We make the best of it. We learn to adapt to those of us who are privileged enough to have a comfortable home and are able to enjoy painting or drawing or just watching TV like. You know we're going to be okay.

Hannah: Yeah, it could be much worse. I mean, I've, I haven't eaten this good in a long time. I'm at my parents' house and it's just like, I'm like living with Martha Stewart right now. It's pretty, it's pretty sick. I was like, I'm going to get like quarantine fat. It's going to be awesome.

Eddy: It's self-care

Hannah: Good. Yeah. Yeah, of course. I'm not telling myself, no, I'm giving myself whatever I want because I'm worth it, you know? So absolutely, my wine intake has gone up, but I'm okay with it. Yeah. I think a lot. Yeah. I've got, as I have like a spiked seltzer, like right there. I think, yeah, it's, it's the indulgences, you know, everything in moderation or not, but it's whatever.

Eddy: Awesome. Well. Thank you so much for sharing your story and thank you to all our listeners. Um, we really appreciate it. Um, if you'd like to watch the footage of our chat. Um, you can head over to YouTube, um, and follow us on Instagram at not just a girl underscore tattoo. I'll link all the information for

Hannah in the show notes and on Instagram so that you can follow her amazing work. Um, please subscribe, follow and share and spread the love. Um, I hope you'll have a wonderful day. Um, and remember the fuck the patriarchy.

Hannah: For sure

Eddy: It was so good to talk to you again. Hopefully I’ll talk to you soon

Hannah: It was awesome. Thank you so much for asking me to part of it was so much fun.

[outro music]

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