#not saying these are relationships to emulate but that ain't the point

[formyloveoflove]

The Bear S3 and the Choices We Make

Ok. After a second watch of S3, I'm feeling a little bit more optimistic about the future. Trust - it's a sad ending. It's my worst nightmare for Sydney. But there's still hope, and that all lies in what Carmen and Syd decide to do next. Season 3 Spoilers - read at your own risk :)

In S3 E10 Forever, we see our two mains go through a breakthrough. Starting with Carmen, he finally confronts his former boss (who has a name, i think, but fuck him, I ain't using it). It's the first (and only time) that we see Carmen proactively voice his resentment. He avoids his mom (rightfully so imo). He never got the chance with Mikey. But he approaches him, expects the man to have repent (maybe), or at the very least, have a little remorse.

He doesn't. He regrets nothing. In fact, he takes credit for Carmen's success: his hard work, his skills, and his talent. He tells Carmen that he should be thanking him, and that's not even the worst of it. No, for me, it is when he says

Carmen: My life stopped. Chef: That's the point, right? [...] You wanted to be great. You wanted to be excellent. So you got rid of all the bullshit, and you concentrated, and you got focused, and you got great. You got excellent. It worked. You're here. Look at all this

Sound familiar? It should. It's the same sentiment that Carmen said in the Season 2 finale. Remember, he said,

I wasn't here. Right? What the fuck was I thinking? Like I was going to be in a relationship? I'm a fuckin' pyscho. That's why I'm good at what I do. That's how I operate. I am the best because I didn't have any of this fuckin' bullshit, right? I could focus, and I could concentrate.

Carmen's thoughts about himself aren't even his own. They were drilled into him by a man who wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. He was emulating the abusive behaviors and patterns that crushed him, that gave him "uclers, panic attacks, and nightmares" on the people that he cares about. On his sister, on Richie, on Tina and Marcus. and especially on Sydney, who is the only one who knows exactly how bad it can get. He's hurt those closest to him. He hurts them daily. And for what? And for why? For his own ego.

And this realization leads us to Carmen's first cry.

For three whole seasons, we see this man lose his idolized brother to suicide, witness his alcoholic mother physically, emotionally, and mentally abuse him, and experience mental degradation to the point where it affects his physical health. Not once did he shed a tear. This is the first time Carmen Berzatto lets himself cry. And I think this is the best thing for him. If he chooses to acknowledge the err of his ways, turn back course, and begin again, I think The Bear could be what he wanted it to be. He needs to decide to stop running, stop fighting himself and everybody around him. He needs to let go. Let it rip, right?

However, if this is what he decides to do, the cards ultimately fall into Sydney's hands.

If anybody's been through hell and back, it's Ms. Sydney Adamu. All season she's been forced to work in a volatile environment, putting herself between Carmen and whoever's the victim of his anger. She has her ideas shut down, her skills demeaned, and her credit is outright non-existent. Staff keeps quitting; they're not making any money; and Cicero and Co. is doing some shady background shit.

She's trapped, but not really. Not until she signs that Partnership Agreement. But like she told her dad in S2 E9 Omelette, she doesn't think she has another one in her. She can't have The Bear fail like Sheridan Road. She doesn't want to make the same mistakes she did last time. She wants to grow and learn and make her mark on the industry - prove she's not a failure.

She's waiting for Carmen to make good on his promises from The Table Scene, but he's not.

"You deserve my full focus." But his focus is not on her. Remember the Carmen that noticed when something was off with her? Remember the "say more?" or the "what's up with you?" Remember when they worked together, when the menu was truly theirs? Where was Sydney's "margin" moment? What did Carmen do this scene that signaled to Sydney that he was there and present.

"I couldn't do this without you." He does everything without her. Don't even get me started. From the menu to the list of nonnegotiables. Syd gets to make no decisions after being forced to make ALL the decisions. What is she there for? To be Carm's wrangler, his doormat? What has he does to convince her that she is invaluable?

He's egotistical. He's verbally abusive. He's the exact person that she warned him not to be. That he assured her that he wouldn't be in S1 E3 Brigade. She said,

You know I think this place could be so different from all the other places we've been at. But, in order for that to be true, we need to run things different. [...] But you just didn't really listen, and if this is going to work the way I think we both want it to work, I think we should probably try to listen to each other. The reason why I'm here, and not somewhere else or for someone else, is because I think I can stand out here. I can make a difference here. We could share ideas. I could implement things that make this place better. And I don’t wanna be wasting my time, working on another line or tweezing herbs on a dish that I don’t care about.

He didn't follow through the first time, so she left. But now, it's different. She's put her blood, sweat, and tears into this place. She's made a place (a home even) at The Bear. Leaving is not as simple anymore.

S1 Syd would've taken that CDC offer in a heartbeat. But building something and it failing (like The Bear. like Sheridan Road.) is terrifying. Slowly but surely, Carmen has been chipping away at her confidence and her fire. So much so that good things, like The Offer or the review of her risotto from The Beef, don't feel like good things.

Sydney's Panic Attack is HUGE for her character. We see Sydney at her lowest: her most frightening and vulnerable. She's uncertain. She's in a constant state of panic. And the person that she trusted with her fears and insecurities facilitated this, drove her to this point. It's heartbreaking. I cried when I saw it. No one would blame her for jumping ship. At this point, I encourage it (but she has to talk about it, acknowledge it. no running).

Now, if Carmen decides to change his ways, he'd have apologized to Sydney twice without changed actions. She'd have to believe him after many, many broken promises. At this time, she doesn't trust him, can't rely on him. But when having to decide between staying or going, will she try to trust him again?

Will she? Should she?

That's where I'm at so far. I have more thoughts, but I'll write those out when I get back from my weekend trip.

[lostsyren]

idk if I’m the only one who sees it this way but imo i think sofia ultimately becomes a distraction for rafe’s inner discontent and inadequacy, their breakup can almost become an impetus for his healing, bc i think there needs to be a level of self esteem and emotional security before he enters a relationship with sofia, it’s evident he quickly emotionally latches onto people that give him a sign of affection and i don’t think a relationship built on fear (fear of loneliness/abandonment) is necessarily healthy for rofia or rafe nor is it fair to sofia.

do i think however that necessarily means they should abandon their relatioship no, bc at the end of the day she is his emotional foil and there is a reason why sofia out of all the girls he’s ever encountered she has came into his life and he’s let her stay and also has wanted to stay too, he’s needed someone to truly see him and love him, this has then formed an unfound connection emotionally and physically that i don’t think he’s found in anyone else but i just don’t think their relationship should be like he’s dependant on her to be emotionally stable or a figure/vessel for his happinesses, she shouldn’t be his only outlet, i think reuniting with sarah will alleviate that but there’s still clearly some underlying insecurities he still had to figure out because there’s a complexity to his issues but who knows what’s going on in the writers head to them it probably ain’t even that deep 😭

“i think there needs to be a level of self esteem and emotional security before he enters a relationship with sofia… i don't think a relationship built on fear (fear of loneliness/abandonment) is necessarily healthy for rofia or rafe nor is it fair to sofia”

Yesss I agree!! I ship them because I think they’re cute and sweet (and Fiona and Drew are both hot🫣) but looking at their relationship realistically, both of them need to go through a lot to get to the point of security.

With Rafe, as you said, it’s healing his trauma and self-esteem issues. With sofia it’s taking the rose tinted glasses off and releasing she can’t ignore Rafe’s red flags. It’s definitely not healthy, but I can go for that as long as both Rafe and Sofia recognise that it’s unhealthy.

“he's needed someone to truly see him and love him, this has then formed an unfound connection emotionally and physically that i don't think he's found in anyone else”

Yesss I agree!! Some people say it’s ooc for rafe to be so soft and loving with Sofia, which I don’t understand. S4 when his father is out of the picture, he can heal. He can enjoy things, he can love someone, and pretend like he’s normal for once. I do agree it was somewhat an act, like trying to emulate Ward. But I think his feelings were real.

“but i just don't think their relationship should be like he's dependant on her to be emotionally stable or a figure/vessel for his happinesses,”

Trueee. I don’t think Sofia even realises that she is a vessel for his happiness. Maybe in her subconscious, or somewhere deep inside her she does know– but she ignores it. She chooses to believe in their love. She’s an idealist. I don’t think she’d like the idea of rafe only being with her as a distraction– not because it’s denigrating to her, but because the idea that she is handling such a fragile, broken person js scary to her…she doesn’t want to hurt him, not for her sake but for his. (We see this in how guilty she was after the deal. I genuinely think it was because she was scared of hurting him not because she was afraid of him).

“there's still clearly some underlying insecurities he still had to figure out because there's a complexity to his issues but who knows what's going on in the writers head to them it probably ain't even that deep”

Yessss even though he’s “healed” in s4, he hasn’t really. That’s why I liked the proposal scene. It was proof of his attempt to jump head first into that idyllic prospect of a future. But he can’t have that. Not when he hasn’t atoned for sins. Him killing Peterkin set everything into motion– the writers must have a plan for his redemption/punishment? But I 100% agree with you, it definitely isn’t that deep to them😭💀esp if they’re considering riara, because that just shows to me they don’t understand either Rafe or kie’s characters

But thank you lovely for sharing ur thoughts!! Loveee <3

[certifiedwerewolf]

Something that is interesting to me about Lou and Zac and how they play Fabian and Gorgug's relationship to their parents is like.

So I would argue that, at least during Freshman Year, Fabian, Gorgug, and Riz have the best relationship with their parents out of the party. Kristen and Adain's parents just flat out suck and even though Fig's parents do love her, the circumstances have strained her relationships with them to the breaking point.

So Riz's relationship with his mom is one where his mom is very attentive and loving, and she and Riz are very much on the same page, even in matters that they disagree. Riz sort of forces Sklonda to treat him as an adult, even if she's constantly pulling him back into childhood and making sure he doesn't grow up too fast, as much as she's able.

But this ain't about them. Anyway.

So Fabian and Gorgug both have very loving and devoted relationships with their parents, albeit in different ways: Fabian does his best to emulate his father until it becomes apparent that he mustn't, that he has to let go of his father's legacy and acquire his own, and Gorgug struggles to connect to his parents despite the fact that it's clear that he does love them devotedly- they don't understand each other as well as they'd like, but that doesn't change his feelings or their closeness. It feels like the most normal teenager-parent relationship out of the group.

And I think Lou and Zac make some really interesting choices in how they play their characters' relationship to their parents.

Now, I don't know how much input they had into the development of their characters' parents- obviously some, but I don't know the ratios that came into play when they and Brennan were concepting them. So I don't know how much of their choices are genuine improv and how much is them leaning into their character regardless of what they themselves are aware of.

So, when Lou is playing off of or talking about Bill, as Fabian, he is very confident. Lou makes choices relating to what Bill would want or think or feel in a way that it's clear that he, Lou, is intimately acquainted with this character to the point that it definitely feels like he and Brennan are writing this character together, and are in perfect sync with his creation. This makes it a lot of fun, and this confidence gives Lou a lot of freedom to characterize Bill as much as Brennan does, which if he lacked, could potentially slow down the flow of the story. Not that not having this intimacy is a bad thing, but it lends itself extremely well to specifically Fabian- and it may just be an extension of Fabian's confidence, that Lou feels carte blanche to just say whatever about Bill Seacaster and know that it will ring true.

And on the flipside, Zac plays Gorgug talking to or about his parents in a way that implies he knows next to nothing about them. Like they're total strangers, except in specific situations where he takes Brennan's lead and plays off of his tone. And conversely, this works just as well as Lou's confident assertions about Bill Seacaster do. Because Gorgug, especially during Freshman year, is not very confident. He's struggling to relate to his parents, he's struggling to understand who he is, he's uncomfortable having a lot of attention paid to him, and often second-guesses himself about everything. Even if there was something Gorgug knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, I think it would still make perfect sense for Zac to play Gorgug as though Brennan created his parents with no input from him and then sprang them on him day one.

I can't think of a single moment where Gorgug confidently asserted something about his parents that hadn't already been established, whereas Fabian was so confident in his understanding of his father that he knew to kill him when he was making death saves. And these are improv choices being made by their players, and I don't know how deliberate this choice was but it works so well with the characters they're playing. It all comes together so seamlessly.

[marcusrobertobaq]

It's a popular opinion and a red flag for people that misses important points.

Alice was originally written as a mute little girl. But ofc as they didn't want to change the whole thing they maintained the same plot and made this "twist" that wasn't really a twist to me cuz was easy knowing she wasn't human. The consequences are we won't be able to explore the android kid pov the way it should.

Alice being an android is still interesting cuz we can explore how fucked up is CyberLife by manufacturing android kids that can realistically emulate even a damn fever - and people BUY 'EM. Androids are overall emotionally capable and this is also fucked up if you're trynna sell products. I guess it got too realistic 🤷🏾‍♂️

All this added to the fact CyberLife is aware what's going on with the androids, and they still sell 'em anyways and it's in a dehumanization campaign to make people "immune" in seeing a person in an android that without identifiers can blend in with humans without issues.

Connor doesn't really connect humans to androids in a literal way, his pov shows not only the negatives of the deviancy issue but also the megacorporation manipulation movement and how it impacts humans pov. We also see deviancy and the causes from a more outsider/antagonistic pov while still being an android - no humans got this pov unless they're in the circle witnessing everything, but doesn't mean they'll buy it as something more than a "defect".

Markus doesn't show "the human side of androids" either, he's the one trynna establish a bridge so androids can at least be heard, a way humans can understand what's happening with 'em. The deviant rebellion is all about making the android's sentiment about the "slavery vs autonomy" and emotional capacity public so humans can see what they're doing with these androids. And maybe in the future, who knows, work together, live together - coexist without mfs wanting to gun down an android just cuz they refused an order - cuz, trust me, humans and android will eventually need to cooperate if they wanna go thru this storm.

Kara story's is the common deviant pov. U can notice she's the one with most death possibilities thru chapters. In her story we see not only the average everyday deviant life on the streets, always having to hide and run away, blend in with humans to not be killed, but also how androids can develop feelings, personal relationships with other androids - and even humans. Her story is solely about this desire of having a connection, from start to the end. It still in the game even if compromised by the twist attempt. Had Kara not known about Alice being an android from start and it would be already 50% better imo but, well, it is what it is.

It ain't like Markus story where the main focus is the revolution and the personal relationship is more a second thing or Connor where the main focus is discovering what's happening with the androids and CyberLife, having a more personal relationship coming from a forced union, also being in second place and totally conditional.

Kara's story is about Alice and the friends they make along the way - human and android. Got its flaws but it's the main focus. The 3 stories are supposed to complete each other in this sense. Android Alice can be a downside only cuz they didn't bother to explore the new idea they implemented, including putting the "twist" in the worst place possible.

Ofc everything I'm saying is just my opinion and I'm probably missing something.

Okay, so, Character Talk Time

I have no idea if this is a popular opinion or not, but I reallllly hate the fact that Alice is an Android

Like…what?

Okay, let me present my case:

As far as we know, Androids have been said that they “Never get tired, or sad” (don’t cry?) they don’t need to eat, and shouldn’t really get cold/feel temperatures. Sure, their bio components will suffer, but they don’t feel pain. Extreme temperatures trigger pain (like burning yourself = too hot)

But, Alice does all of this.

She gets tired, she gets sad, she likely eats (I know both times we see her with food, she doesn’t want it, but with Kara, we can steal snacks from that one convenience store. Is that just to keep up the appearance that she’s a human girl?) and she gets cold.

Also, she gets a Fever.

“But Nexus! Luther explains this! He says that’s just how Kara has been seeing it!” I hear you say.

Well, Rose is the one who identifies Alice’s fever, not Kara. Rose is human. She can’t“see it her own way”. She doesn’t have that ability.

So, if someone wanted to design an Android Child, why would they make it have the ability to develop a fever from the cold, or get cold, or get sad and cry?

Isnt that just more work for the parents who are likely getting an Android Child because it’s meant to be less stressful?

I’m just saying, the fact that that is the plot twist that the game was working towards for Kara is extremely disappointing.

Also, another reason on why I feel like it was a bad idea:

Connor is meant to let us see the Negatives of the Androids Uprising. He’s what connects Humans to Androids. He’s on one far side of the spectrum.

Meanwhile Markus is to let us see the Human Side of Androids, and the Positives of the Androids Uprising. He gives us Deviant Insight. He’s what connects the Androids together. He’s on the opposite side of the spectrum from Connor.

So to balance it all out, I feel like Kara and Alice should have been the middle. They should have represented how Humans and Androids can live and work together peacefully. How they can love each other and care for each other without it being bad. That’s what I believed they were doing from the beginning, but for that to be wrong, really sucks.

Anyway, I hope this is a popular opinion, because I really do think it should have gone that way.

[frazzledsoul]

So Matt Czuchry has been making the promo rounds recently because apparently he's still alive on American Horror Story this most recent season and the season was split in two parts.

Apparently he was on The Talk two days ago and he was accused of ruining the love lives of teenage girls for decades

First of all, I am sick of the knee-jerk misandry that claims that any man Rory Gilmore dates is not good enough for her, because she's such paragon of fidelity, moral character, and good behavior. Has anyone asked if Rory is a good girlfriend and if these guys deserve her? She cheats on or with all of her boyfriends (with Dean and Logan, she's done both), she pits these guys against each other often, she frequently lies and misleads them about her intentions (this goes along with the cheating), she very rarely is repentant about any of this, and she also has the nerve to play the martyr (hello, bridesmaids: hello, being pissed at Jess for not waiting for her in season 3) when her track record does not call for it. I'm not saying she's always awful, but I think the only seasons where she was fair to whoever she was dating were season 1 and season 7. The rest of the time her record....is not good.

Furthermore, Dean and Jess seemed to struggle for a bit after Rory leaves their lives for good and then they get considerably better without her. Dean had at least one kid by 2011, so I'm assuming he was married and settled by then, which is really all he wanted in life (hopefully he got some therapy first). Jess is an author, co-owns a business, and is accepted in a community of his own by 2006 (and is emotionally stable enough not to hold Rory manipulating him into more love triangle bullshit against her). Logan never really gets a break from any of this in the canon we see (and is just as big of a cheater as she is in AYITL) but even he is personally and professionally stable by that era while Rory spends most of AYITL throwing epic tantrums and destroying any professional opportunity she gets.

Why should the boyfriends, who actually exhibited considerable character growth, should be forever declared "toxic" and perpetually morally inferior to Rory when they became more mature (okay, Logan has a mixed record, but Adult Logan works and he gets along with his dad, so we'll take it) and she did not? Why isn't anyone asking if the way Rory treats other people is behavior we want young girls to emulate, instead of only holding the boyfriends to account for what they did wrong?

Yeah, yeah, I know. This is the perils of being a main character written by Amy Sherman Palladinos: you leave her orbit and your life gets better offscreen. But Rory holds a lot of blame for why these relationships didn't work, especially since she keeps doing the same thing over and over. She should be held just as accountable for the things she did wrong as her partners are.

Honestly, Czuchry is being a lot more gracious than the situation calls for here. He showed up to promote his most recent project and a random Tik Tok was waved in his face accusing him of ruining the love lives of young women for years, because of what his character on a TV show did LITERALLY DECADES AGO. Why are y'all mad at him? He didn't write this. He had zero control over any of this. Why is this his fault? This ain't why he's there. Go yell at ASP if you're still mad and leave the actors alone. Credit goes to him for not trying to play Team Logan and be diplomatic because I don't really think he signed up for this discourse here.

This isn't an issue that is isolated to Czuchry: Milo also made the Interwebs mad when he asked to defend Jess's behavior on a talk show a while back (promoting a completely different project) and he pointed that Jess was literally a child when he was a main character on the show with a lot of childhood trauma. But hey, let's get pissed at the actor for pointing out literal facts again.

And Czuchry is right here:all of these characters were flawed, none of them behaved perfectly, and you should not model your real life relationships on any of them. This is not a tale of evil men ganging up on a helpless damsel. There's plenty of bad behavior to go around for all of them.