#not mentioning the specific discourse because it’s really not my place to comment on the specific topic

[thecoolerliauditore]

sorry for the meta fandom discourse post but is it just me or does it sometimes feel like alot of people in the fandom really, really hate everyone else in the fandom. maybe I'm just more observant now but it feels like a relatively recent thing.

I don't like naming names in these but it's really hard to not to so forgive me but it seems like it started when people got more comfortable publicly saying they didnt like the art1mator smp people, then more and more anons on confession blogs would start very unsubtly complaining about specific fan artists they dislike (a little before this point there was a lot of general complaining about twinks or anime styles or whatever but never targetted). There's something here about the dehumanization of "big artists" too but I'm probably not eloquent enough to put it into words.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to this because I do this too (although I do try to clarify each time I do that I respect the alternative as well) but I've seen so many posts in the scott tag specifically that are framed around proving other interpretations "wrong" than sharing your own. It used to be "scott is loyal and kind" and now it's "despite what People say, scott is loyal and kind". I don't check other tags closely enough to judge whether this is just the obligatory scott having more discourse than everyone else effect or if this is a wider spread thing but it's definitely something I've noticed. There's also the occasional post in there that's just like "some people are SO WRONG about scott" with no elaboration whatsoever?

And now with the Pearl Discourse TM it feels as though there's a lot of assuming the worst. This is what I was alluding to with the Gem SL discourse thing FYI like Gem disabled comments and all of a sudden everyone was preaching to the choir about being nicer to Gem, despite the fact that people on here LOVED Gem. There were big ass posts that told off people who called her character evil or for mentioning the Grian 1v3 instead of idk. The people in her comments section who were directly attacking her and made her disable them in the first place. It's so fucking wild to me still how many of my followers are Gem fans since I was piss scared to talk about her at all when SL ended.

Like I've seen people claim the fandom is awful and doesn't deserve this series which is like??? No?????? The start of WL brought about a shit ton of awesome fanart/fic??? All of the people I know are excited and chatting about it?????

Like don't get me wrong there are people in the fandom I personally dislike (and people who I've gotten the impression in the past who dislike me) but that's like. 1 or 2 guys compared to a shit ton of people who are awesome.

Maybe if we just idk. Talked to eachother more like people do instead of assuming someone is the worst because they shared an opinion you don't like or draw in a specific art style the fandom wouldn't seem So Bad.

[ingravinoveritas]

Just popping by to say how much I appreciate you. Thank you for always keeping a level head. Even when you're disagreeing or calling out bullshit, you still manage to stay diplomatic and respectful. And of course, you always focus on the important things, the main one being that Michael is David's #1 fan (and vice versa)

Aw, thank you so much for this! I can't tell you how nice it was to get this message in my inbox (and apologies for not replying sooner, as I've been entirely swamped and am now trying to catch up on my Asks).

Given that this was from two weeks ago, I'm going to guess that this is mainly in response to the whole situation with David's BAFTA nom and some of the reactions that have occurred as a result. I think a lot of people have said a lot of clumsy things (looking at you, Neil) and while some may not have meant to take away from David's big moment, that still seems to be what's happened. I absolutely believe David is more than deserving of the nomination and it is long overdue at this point. He should've been nominated for Des, or even before that, his role as Alec Hardy in Broadchurch, but I am so glad he's finally gotten a nomination now.

I think the reaction a lot of people had was borne out of how tied together David and Michael's performances are as Aziraphale and Crowley, and the thought that if David were to be nominated for that specific role, then one hopes that Michael will also be nominated for his role as Aziraphale at some other point in the future.

But to your comment about my keeping a level head, I find it interesting that, in the midst of all the theories flying around about why Michael wasn't nominated and questions I got to that effect, this post showed up in the tags the same day you sent me this Ask (blog name is cropped out):

This was very obviously in reference to this Ask that I received and had answered just prior to then. This person didn't even have the nerve to mention my blog by name, but had no problem calling me an "rpf fucker" (really nice...). The question pertained to whether Michael's lack of a BAFTA nom could have been because of Anna's off-putting social media posts prior to the announcement, and I indicated in my response that I did not believe this was the case. I am not about to place blame on Anna for something that she had no part of--which I suppose this person was hoping I would do, to give credence to their ludicrous claims of sexism--and I made my position on the matter clear.

So to your comment about me disagreeing, this was exactly what happened...and yet this person had to twist what I wrote so far around (to the point of lying by omission) just to make their point. And yes, I took that Ask seriously, as I take every Ask/Anon that I get seriously, even the ones that attack me (which is also why it takes me for-freaking-ever to answer the questions in my inbox). According to the above blogger, however, instead I should've responded to the person who sent the Ask by mocking them and telling them how ridiculous and stupid they are. Because just politely disagreeing while still allowing someone the space to share their thoughts is so horrible, but telling someone to fuck off is apparently the height of discourse. Ugh.

In any case, I am very much grateful for this message, and for you and everyone else who follows my blog and has been so lovely. It's your encouragement and kindness that gives me the drive to keep posting, so thank you! ❤️❤️

[mattsunsdollie]

Just wanted to let you know that as someone who has a better understanding of the actual situations and a slight linked association that most of this discourse surrounding Aaron and Sam Judge is nothing but a farce created by a supposed network of accounts that realistically all trace back to a person who has been trying to attack Sam's character while also trying to spread rumors of Aaron cheating to drive a wedge there as if they would have any chance to step in to her place if it did ever succeed. They in fact started out by using very specific examples in which at least two of the people came out and said we're completely false. One girl who took a family member and her boyfriend, emphasis on the boyfriend, to go see a game where she had been left three tickets by judge because she had created a video that he had seen and shared and wanted to thank her for. He turned around once during the game and waved to her and that was the end of their interaction. People want to say that she's a mean girl and she's manipulative over him while also saying that he's controlling of her and that everything is in his name despite the fact that I can tell you, without telling you my sources because that would be a whole other can of worms, that one of their condos in Florida and her own car are in her name alone. She also never used Aaron's name to try to get out of her DUI ticket, what she said was that if she was arrested it would look bad on him because she was worried about his image but she went to prison and paid her own way out and the ticket and took the class that she had to take in order to lessen the punishment. They also tried to play the gold digger card despite the fact that they've been together since high school and her family was well off and the only split because she wanted to finish her degree in Florida and he was going up to the majors and they both moved on to a different relationships but people that were close to them said that neither of them were as happy as when they were together which is how they ended up back together. People look at Anthony Rizzo and his wife Emily as this beacon of perfect marriage and love, do they really think that those two would have been Aaron and Sam's best friends if they were in this toxic relationship? Not to mention a lot of the supposed discourse is that he's taking women back to his hotel room when he's on the road despite the fact that what the exception of now with the baby because they can't travel as much Sam was almost always on the road with him and in his hotel room. I can also tell you, from being in the area that he and Sam and now the baby are together all the time at restaurants or shows or the gym, obviously without the baby there, or just back at their place. Most of these rumors of rumors are slightly altered forms of the same story just being told and retold with zero proof. Even with NDAs the truth gets out so you really think that the biggest, figuratively and literally, athlete in New York City is going to be able to get around and cheat? Now is there a chance that maybe there's other people involved in their relationship because that is always an option, maybe but he's not leaving her constantly and going off and having these affairs. Beyond that Do you really think he would talk about his faith and his family so reverently as well as his morality and then risk all of that going up in flames with flings? Also if you think that the athletes and wags aren't aware of all the things being said then your mistaken because I can tell you right now that I'm here because this page in particular and all of the baseless rumors are being talked about over on threads, X and even in some Instagram comment sections and they are aware of some of the past accusations but have chosen not to say anything likely because they know the truth which is all that matters.

everything is word of mouth, and we’ll likely never really know what goes down. and i just need clarification, you’re on my page bc ppl are talking about it on x or the rumors are being talking ab?

edit: i think everything should be taken with a grain of salt. certain anon or blog has claimed to have reliable sources but can’t provide them. and if it were true i could understand, but there’s no way to fact check anything

[max1461]

Everything that brings me any amount of joy that I mention on here ends up becoming a topic of debate.

I cultivated a debate-y circle not by accident; I engaged in lots of political discourse and so on, especially in the early days of this blog, because I actually like debate. I've said it many times before. I find it interesting and intellectually productive to argue about politics and philosophy specifically. The problem is that I didn't really realize that the debate would not stay restricted to these topics on which I had invited it. I was unwittingly cultivating a space in which I couldn't talk about any part of my life, any hobby, any opinion, etc., without people feeling implicitly invited to comment negatively on it, to critique it, to take as open for argumentation.

I am not really interested in arguing with strangers on the internet about these things. I respect people who want to do that, and want to be in a community where those are the norms, but I do not like it. It actually makes me feel really bad.

I've been spending a lot less time on here recently, and I'll probably keep doing that. But I do want to keep engaging with this place. I'm just not really sure how in light of these norms. It's quite unpleasant to me!

I am happy to defend the ideas I put out there as such. The writing that I produce, the #society longposts. But I don't like constantly being asked, basically, to defend everything else about myself on here. It sucks.

Some people seem to have effectively avoided it. "Curate your experience" they often say. But if I did that to the extent they advocate, it would probably just end up curating away the things I even come to this place for!

Maybe not, idk.

Well anyway.

[outoftheforestshow]

OVERMODERATION and BAD FAITH ARGUMENTS ONLINE!

I was just in Reddit jail for three days because I commented on a Tesla post about dealerships and Cybertrucks being vandalized by fire.

I actually criticized this type of protest—I do NOT think setting vehicles on fire or burning down dealerships is the answer! First, it just releases toxic pollution into the environment.

However, my comment was something along the lines of: "Setting Cybertrucks on fire is just polluting—they should stick to bricks." And voilà… a three-day Reddit ban.

Folks, Reddit is one of the most heavily moderated social media platforms. I’ve spoken about this before—people really need to get their act together and learn the skills of healthy debate and conversation. Yes, things are VERY, VERY intense online right now. We are in officially dangerous territory.

I commented on this during the pandemic, and my fellow leftists didn’t get the message:

We must do better at engagement and learn how to handle these conversations. Sometimes, it’s best to just scroll on by—you might be engaging with a bot. But we also need to work on understanding nuanced conversation.

Yes, the “enemy” may not get it, but placing a well-reasoned, logical, and nuanced argument on social media might actually reach someone—just one person—who stops and thinks, “Hmm… interesting point, I hadn’t considered that.”

That being said.. these are some suggestions if you manage a social media group.

Over-moderation on social media is a growing issue, especially when it disproportionately targets humor, sarcasm, and valid critique while allowing actual harmful content to slip through. Here are some recommendations for striking a better balance:

1. Prioritize Context Over Keywords

Moderation systems should analyze intent and context, not just flag specific words.

AI tools should be trained to detect sarcasm, humor, and critique rather than assuming all flagged words indicate harm.

2. Implement Tiered Moderation Instead of Blanket Bans

Warnings before bans – Users should receive explanations and opportunities to appeal before being banned.

Graduated penalties – Instead of automatic long bans, have a system where users can clarify their intent before harsher actions.

3. Improve Appeal Processes

Allow users to directly explain their comments to a human moderator, not just an algorithm.

Appeals should be quick and not take days or weeks.

4. Differentiate Between Harassment and Disagreement

Just because a post is controversial or critical does not mean it’s harassment.

Focus on actual threats, doxxing, and incitement of violence rather than censoring political discourse or satire.

5. Protect Humor and Satire

Humor is a valid form of critique and should be recognized as such.

Platforms could have "satire" or "context" tags for posts to reduce misunderstanding.

6. Use Human Moderators for Complex Cases

AI can assist but shouldn’t make final decisions on bans or content removal.

Controversial posts should go through human review, especially if reported multiple times.

7. Transparency in Moderation Policies

Users should know why their content was flagged and what specific rule they allegedly violated.

Clearer guidelines for what constitutes hate speech vs. strong critique would help reduce unfair bans.

8. Stop Penalizing Discussion of Sensitive Topics

Just because a user mentions a controversial subject does not mean they support it.

Discussions around power structures, sexism, racism, or corporate influence should not be auto-flagged as "hate speech" or "misinformation" without careful review.

9. Avoid Bias in Moderation Decisions

Social media should equally apply rules across all political and social spectrums.

Some groups are disproportionately targeted while others seem to get a free pass—this needs to stop.

10. Encourage Free Speech While Maintaining Safety

Hate speech and direct threats should never be tolerated, but differing opinions, sarcasm, and satire should not be treated as threats.

The goal should be to foster conversation, not shut it down.

see and challenging harmful narratives directly is important—it’s how change happens. Retreating into echo chambers, while comfortable, doesn’t push the conversation forward.

[my-lunaberg]

Hello! I saw your post on asking ab ppl's opinions on the DSMP and had so many thoughts to share I actually went to my pc to write this, lol. Long ask incoming, sorry.

I started watching the DSMP in august of 2020, specifically right after the Techno vs. Dream duel. At this point in time, the Dream SMP tag had only like ten posts--not exaggerating, you would scroll and see the same few posts over and over again cause there was almost no fandom. I followed the series pretty much religiously all the way up to the prison break, where I then basically had to stop watching cause my life was falling apart (paying attention to streamers all day every day causes you to fail classes, who knew?)

So I guess I don't have a lot to say on the ending, other than it certainly was an ending. I think the crew did a good job with what they had, I liked the realization c!Tommy had towards c!Dream and what was once an innocent intention of server unity twisting into something else. I think using the nuke to blow everything up to start anew was a cop-out, but I also know (or at least feel like) the server itself was falling apart IRL and they had to bring it to a conclusion somehow. (Because of that, I knew the server wouldn't get a "season 2")

You mentioned how you liked it on a thematic level rather than emotional, and it really made me think about how my own interest manifested. I was certainly invested in these characters and their stories, but I only carried an emotional attachment to c!Tommy and c!Dream (and DreamXD, but only because I love deities in fiction).

I think, story-wise, the DSMP had many elements that hit hard, c!Tommy's abuse being one of them. During the prison arc, when c!Dream is being tortured constantly by c!Quackity, a large part of the fandom rooted for c!Q because c!Dream was an abuser and deserved the dehumanizing treatment. And boy do I have some opinions on that, lol. Because of the nature of the DSMP, I never thought of it as a teaching element, and your comment on that only being prevalent to children's media struck a chord--because, yeah, that makes sense. The target audience for the DSMP is a bit skewed, because it does take place in an all-ages video game, but the storyline and characters themselves would never get a G rating. I always considered the DSMP to be a bunch of people having fun exploring the different ways they can write a story/character, without any real end-game in mind. They did marvelous, too, in my opinion. I don't believe the DSMP was ever meant to be a literary marvel, or whatever the video-game equivalent is, so for a bunch of then-friends just throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sticks with the fans, it did it's job.

People now, coming into the fandom for the first time, or looking in from the outside trying to analyze it, don't understand it, imo. It's not that the narrative can only be experienced at the time it was written, because no, you can watch and re-watch it thanks to VODS and recap channels. But so many people hear stories of it being a great time and a great story with great characters and then analyze it to put it on a pedestal only to see that its a piece of fiction with many flaws. Not understanding that the SMP wasn't created to be role-playing server, that never even crossed their minds. It was meant to be a place to have fun and explore a snapshot. That's not saying the cc's shouldn't have made the story in the first place, it's just highlighting how out of control the SMP got due to influencers' fame and fun writing. It was a product of its time because everyone was together, quarantined, exploring how far they could go in a virtual setting. Sorry, rambling a bit. I just think that a sensation like the DSMP can never be repeated on such a scale, and that feeling is why so many outsiders expect so much.

Hope this makes sense, haha. Sorry it's not juicy discourse, but thanks for listening anyway.

No its fine, thank you very much for telling me this!

I initially started watching I think right before the exile arc started but by the time I figured out how to best watch it and caught up with it, it had already been going for a few days, then I followed along with it for a while until I lost interest sometime after the big clingyduo v. Dream fight. Then in late 2022 I was at a local comic con and saw someone in a ghostbur cosplay and some people carrying around a big lmanberg flag and it just made me feel so nostalgic that I wanted to rewatch/finish it, and because I thought it would be fun I also made this sideblog to liveblog it. Im pretty sure dsmp was already over or at the very least getting close to the end by the time I did that, so it gave me a kind of distance that definitely affected my experience with the show.

Like, I think if I had kept up with it throughout (what i would consider to be) its decline and then had to witness that ending after all that, I would definitely feel more negatively about it, so I understand why it was upsetting for a lot of fans, but as it stands, I can mostly just remember it as an overall good piece of media that started stumbling towards the last quarter or so and then ended in a way thats fine, although not particularly satisfying on an emotional level. Like, Dream and Tommy's whole storyline was essentially about the cyclical nature of violence and I think ending the cycle is the best way to resolve that kind of story and in theory, having them make amends before they both die together sounds good to me, but idk, in practice I just didnt like it lol. I think its mainly because their attempts to make Dream seem more sympathetic were kinda too little-too late; Dream didnt have his own pov when most people did which automatically dehumanized him in the eyes of the audience, which was brilliant for the manipulative and unpredictable villian character that he was, but I feel like the CCs didnt really realize that that was the case and didnt feel the need to show stuff from his pov, when it was actually vital imo

You said that people coming into the fandom now come into it with these expectations and I think thats true, but I feel like people who have been following it since the rp properly started also tended to put it on a pedastal because of how genuinely impressively good it was in the beginning, and then when the finale was Like That, a lot of them were insanely disappointed. I also think thats where a lot of the discourse revolving around the ending sending a bad message comes from — a lot of people think of it as something very polished like an actual tv-show when thats simply not what it is or ever was. Its just people fucking around and having fun, and when people just fuck around, theyre not really thinking about "being responsible to their audience" or whatever. Take it from me as a writer lol, I have plans for ya-novels that touch on serious topics and with those I do try to be mindful of the fact that my audience is younger (although teenagers are obviously not children and already dont need to be taught via their media anymore imo), but when Im just writing a little short story I'll usually make it as fucked up as possible just because thats fun to me, yknow

[brandileigh2003]

why do you think athors are unhappy and taking fics down?

This has been talked about a good bit lately.

Search fandom etiquette. Or fandom discourse. Others have worded it better than I can

But, what it comes down to is ... Each author is different. The way their fic has been received, the way that comments, anons, negativity, etc all effect them.

You mention being happy. I don't know that it's that.... Exactly. It seems like fandom is shifting. And that's natural in some ways. But. Things that have been rough... Personally and to some posts I've seen... Is that negativity and people being rude seems to be on the rise. In comment sections and inboxes.

And I know that some people say don't put your work on the Internet if you don't expect some criticism.

But. This is something we do for free. Bc we love it. We want to explore this world and the characters.

And fandom has always had golden rule of don't like don't read.

Except people are ignoring that. Or else they are just going over the line of the unspoken... If you don't like it, don't say anything about it. Not publicly where the author can see it.

I've seen the potluck example. We're all bringing something we put time and effort into. If you don't like green bean casserole, then please just pass over my dish. If you think that you like green bean casserole but you don't like a specific ingredient I used, just don't eat it. You wouldn't get it and then complain loudly to someone about it or tell me it's awful.

The second thing that's been talked about lately is positive interaction with authors. There's been a drop in commenting lately and I'm sure there are lots of reasons.

But it can still be discouraging. I know that we're not owed comments. I know. However. We spent time creating this and many of us do crave for someone to tell us so, or ask questions, to know it impacted someone, to know what reader liked. Or we find out it's being rec'd and talked about other places. Which is awesome, and there's nothing wrong with that. What is a bit discouraging is-- a lot of authors would probably never see people giving positive thoughts and love to the story, and that a very small percentage, if any tell it in a comment or message.

But these conversations are easily found on reblogs by many mutuals.

So I am but sure if you're really asking if I'm unhappy and why I personally pulled my fics (and if not, I apologize). but I will touch on the "why" a bit.

I will admit that I got too caught up in that part of it, the validation, I guess you could say.

It was making me sad and discouraged with numbers. Or that I would get negative feedback. Or if something didnt "do as well" as my average.

And that made me realize that right now, I'm just making myself unhappy. And (besides the people who gave the negative comments or asks) that is ultimately on me.

Because at the end of the day, I should write and share bc I love it. I have a story that I want told, a certain characteristizations or situation.

I shouldn't write for validation reasons even if it amazing to know my work was enjoyed.

And then I should see that any interactions are a positive.

So. I tried to separate from that. And having them hidden takes out the numbers game.

And I've reread a few of my stories, and enjoyed them just listening and trying to not go into I need to edit this mode. So that has helped.

I actually also posted something anon to test it out and will pull it if I do obsess. I also turned off anon comments and ppl can't find me here.

And I've had wonderful people send me kind messages and support lately and that does make me remember that there are such wonderful people in the fandom and they very much outnumber those who are loud and rude.

And I've been sitting with that. Hanging out in my little bubble, looking at kind things that people have been saying.

I've been trying to start reading more wip, the backbone of fandom, trying to comment as much as I can on any of the things I'm reading and let others know they're seen and appreciated.

So. I'm not unhappy. I'm blessed actually. I have good fandom friends. I have amazing fics being written for free that I can read and have an escape.

I think that these posts and ones I've written out reblogged is just trying to spread info a bit about what some of us as fanfic authors are looking for.

[wildfangz]

@ Anon respectfully I do not feel comfortable publishing your ask because of the namedropping and I hope you can understand that. I'm going to put this under a cut since it got long but I want to put it out there for anyone engaging with this subject at all to please be mindful of if you're holding black simmers to higher standards or being more aggressive with them, think about what language you're using to describe inZOI and rather it's rooted in anti-asian sentiment, and call each other out when you see other simmers crossing lines.

All I can say first off is I'm so sorry you received the same ask. It is mindblowing to me that someone can ~supposedly~ care about such a subject but be such a bigot which is why I suspect this isn't a person that cares at all and is just using this discourse as a power trip or to fuel their rage addiction. The fact we both received the same ask and it wasn't just unique spur-of-the-moment ableism directed at me bc I pissed them off just makes me more confident in that belief.

And I'm sorry for other aggressive asks you received. Even if you had actually touched the demo and even if you knew about the AI like I said earlier, I feel like there's no good reason to approach people like that. It often has the opposite effect and it's just shitty! Be normal! Stop dehumanizing people that don't 100% agree with you or that are ignorant! Not only are there people that probably agree with you but just didn't think before jumping in which isn't a crime btw, or didn't know, but I know from experience you can even convince people that are excited about the AI inclusion away from supporting it. It always starts with kindness rather than shame or aggression.

Race issues are not something I feel comfortable speaking on in depth because that is not my place but I have noticed a lot of simmers messing around with and enjoying inZOI right now are POC, and black specifically. I can understand the frustration when you feel like you finally have a game that respects you and represents you for it to suddenly be the subject of controversy, I can understand the bad taste in your mouth it leaves to watch fellow black simmers getting harassed seemingly by mostly white and nonblack simmers, and I have no doubt you're getting the worst of any harassment because that's how racism goes. I do also agree that some of the "soulless" type of comments do come off sinophobic and anti-asian in general. (Using sinophobic specifically here since I know the game is made by a south korean company but I've still seen people go on anti-chinese rants about it, and I still remember seeing someone refer to it as "Soulless chinese crap" back not too long after it got announced specifically on yt)

I just ask that fellow white simmers and nonblack simmers try to be mindful about how they're interacting with POC on this subject, and speak up when you see someone being weirdly harsh or mainly targeting black users or other POC. I also ask that people be mindful of the words they're specifically using to describe this game and why they're using those words. And yes I'd agree it's really weird to put a black person specifically on blast while you're just quietly unfollowing and blocking other groups of people that have touched or talked about the game.

That said I hope you or anyone else doesn't let racists and immature people drown out the actual solid criticisms this game is getting. I know I played with the demo and watched gameplay videos, and I'm going to utilize the interest I do have in the game to try to voice my concerns before its too late, but if the AI stays in I will not be purchasing the game and it will not be getting any mentions from me on this blog and that's for what I feel are good reasons.

It's also not great they have a partnership with Curseforge at the moment and I'd love if the community could persuade them out of it, but at the same time I feel like it'd be hypocritical of me to demonize the game completely for that when The Sims has the same deal going on. I think if you're someone strongly in the "It's flat out evil they're doing this and you should not even be talking about the game because of it" camp then respectfully your morals dictate you shouldn't be playing or talking about the sims either, even if you pirated it, even if you invested in it long before the collaboration came about. Been leaving a bad taste in my mouth seeing people be so selective about their morals and knowing it's just different to them because it doesn't directly effect them, they weren't interested or invested in this game at all before this point. Also been sad seeing people brush off and shut down discussion of the impact gaming has on the environment as well, again, because it suits their interests, but I digress.

Overall I feel like there's a lot of people getting caught up in emotions right now, and being further riled up by bad actors, and shutting any and all arguments down out of natural defensiveness when ideally this could be a community discussion. Like I feel like we could do so much more good educating & putting pressure on Krafton collectively to change these things whether we have any interest in the game or not than just trying to shame and block anyone that's not within our echo chamber, or strawmanning anyone that takes issue with the game.

Anyway all that aside I can perfectly understand why you don't feel safe in the community. This is just one incident out of a long line of incidents. Even outside of tumblr and outside of serious topics I've seen so much crazy shit!

Simmers can be especially vicious even compared to other gamers, so I don't wanna say just ignore it. If it takes a significant enough toll on your mental health, it's unfortunate you feel you have to, but you're not "losing" by stepping away from the community. You deserve to enjoy the sims in peace, and if you still want the good parts of the community there's a lot more tight knit sims communities you can enter into other than simblr. At very least right now I'd recommend turning off anon asks and utilizing the block button.

At the same time while getting shitty messages is always distressing sometimes the trash takes itself out !! I wouldn't want anyone following and interacting with me anyway that assumed the absolute worst of me just because I reblogged a mutuals zoi right after the demo came out, and again I'm sorry you got shit for that without even knowing anything about the game.

But I'm a very big believer in people being themselves and the people that matter or align with you will stick around. You do not have to, and shouldn't, give a fuck about people that are disingenuous or dedicated to misunderstanding or misinterpreting you. Anyone on any side of this. And I know that's easier said than done, for me this mindset didn't fully sink in until I cut off some family members that had drained my self confidence all my life, but adopting it makes life so much easier and I hope you can one day enjoy the sims as publicly as you want without worrying about what anyone else has to think or say, within reason.

[vesemirsexual]

Yennefer also forced/coerced Geralt to have sex with her in places and at times when he didn't want to, was often emotionally abusive (to both Geralt AND Ciri), for example with the whole Istredd thing where she manipulated them both essentially for fun. I know she can be compelling as a character and has an attempt at s growth arc in the books, but I personally think that some of her actions are overlooked way to often and way too easily. Being a survivor of abuse does not give one the right to abuse others. (I promise this is a good faith ask! You asked for examples so these are some that came to my mind first)

Some of these I completely get where you’re coming from, others I’m not sure (BUT I have only reread Lady of the Lake fairly recently, so it’s possible I’m forgetting the bits in text!)

• Yennefer also forced/coerced Geralt to have sex with her in places and at times when he didn't want to

Correct me if I’m wrong, but is this referring to the Yennefer/Geralt having sex in weird places (+ Geralt being like why can we just not have sex on a bed)? I wasn’t giving the impression that was dubcon/coercion at all vs both of them mutually having sex, and Geralt grumbling about location (but still actively wanting to have sex with Yennefer). Possible I’m not recalling something key here though?

• was often emotionally abusive (to both Geralt AND Ciri)

The example I can recall here for Ciri is often “ugly one” - I don’t think I can comment much on that one, as I’ve seen a lot of discourse surrounding specifically how it’s translated/read, so I’ll defer to the Polish speakers on that one. Outside of that, is there another example with Ciri?

Geralt? Yeah, absolutely at points. When we’re first introduced to Yennefer, she’s the antagonist of the text, and their interactions during that timeframe are antagonist-protagonist, and probably understandably the parts people draw most issue with. There’s also points where that continues (e.g their living together, mentions to Nenneke of Yennefer being controlling - although we’re not given an example of what that means).

• example with the whole Istredd thing where she manipulated them both essentially for fun

I have another ask about this I can’t link because I’m currently on mobile, but I will try and add it to this post when I get a chance. I think the Istredd situation (while messed up) is also very misread by a lot of people. I’m not given the impression any of that happened for “fun” per say, but rather a chain of events something like:

Geralt ditches Yennefer in Vengerberg with notes and flowers -> 4 years pass (implied from memory that Istredd supports her during this time + she’s upset about it) -> shakily back together -> Yennefer visits Istredd because she misses the time and lifestyle (also if I remember right, implied to be breakup sex) -> Istredd throws a wrench in the works by proposing (offering Yen commitment + stability) -> Istredd and Geralt preparing to fight to the death -> Yennefer makes up a kestrel to break up with Istredd, and is set on that course. She only makes one up for Geralt because she asks him to admit he loves her, he refuses and instead spirals into self-pity, goes on a “mutants don’t have feelings” spiel and Yennefer makes a kestrel for him after realising he’s not going to take that step

The Istredd situation is definitely messy, but a lot of people seem to shake it down into “Yen being mean for fun/Yen just cheating/Yen being a bitch” when there’s a lot of context to it + it’s really designed to highlight that they’re not at a place in the story where they can be together because they can’t even be honest with each other.

I know she can be compelling as a character and has an attempt at s growth arc in the books, but I personally think that some of her actions are overlooked way to often and way too easily. Being a survivor of abuse does not give one the right to abuse others. (I promise this is a good faith ask! You asked for examples so these are some that came to my mind first)

No, these are good examples and I 100% did ask because sometimes it’s easier to discuss with specific examples in front of you.

I definitely think there’s criticism to be had for Yennefer, and I think a lot of it is focussed in the first half of her character arc. A lot of my issues with it rise because Yennefer gets a lot of hate out of all the Witcher characters - search any platform and you’ll find people saying pretty vile things, and ranting about what a toxic bitch she is.

In contrast, a lot of other characters don’t get this kind of analysis or shakedown at all. I would argue that most characters throughout the series have some pretty ugly moments when they behave in ways that are not okay, but not all of them are called out of it equally. I think good examples of this are Geralt (who also behaves pretty in a shitty manner at different points in his arc) and Dandelion (misogyny, creepy dragon hunt moment with Yennefer, personally I’d argued that he participated in guilt-tripping Geralt into sleeping with someone he didn’t want to) but as fan fave male characters, they don’t get picked apart in the same way + if anyone tries, they’re going to have to fight furious fans.

[a-a-a-anon]

i also just wanted to include my additional rant/thoughts! which also motivated me to make this post lol

i’m a bit peeved by the way Lise is treated in TYO discourse I guess, though not in a way that's to blame anyone! it’s just that whenever a TYO video comes up with Lise the first comment I see is about how gorgeous she is, and obviously she is and that is to be celebrated too, but it's mentioned so much more than how good of a writer she was or how much she contributed to the show. and it focuses a woman's identity on her appearance. even in the TYO creators conversation when Lise is asked if it felt like a boys club at the time, she starts answering and brings up the BBC bar where she could hardly get a drink without getting her ass pinched 15 times. which is when A Man (Paul Jackson, but every man laughs-and so does Lise! I'm not saying she should be offended or that he was being a Bad Guy! this just demonstrates my point) butts in and says "you had a very nice bottom" and then her answer gets derailed and he finishes by answering a question directed to Lise-specifically about her experience as a woman-for her. and her physical appearance is considered/remembered/commented on first, and not her perspective. and i think it was very valuable to have a female perspective on TYO! the tampon joke probably would've been cut if a woman wasn't there to (write AND) defend it!

and it's nice to see when she's remembered (as a writer and not just as an attractive woman who was present) at all. shout out to alexei for mentioning Lise throughout his autobiography, because in the autobiographies of people involved I could find/articles or books about TYO, they largely mention Lise once or twice, in passing. which is fine, it's not their responsibility to represent her. but it's nice to actually hear about Lise's presence. she was there in the alternative comedy scene since at least the Rik-at-the-Comedy-Store days (where she met Alexei, but she could've been involved earlier as she was at manchester university at the same time as Rik and Ade) and she went on the Australia tour with The Comic Strip gang too. and in a lot of articles or writings about TYO or whatever, they mention Lise first/primarily as a girlfriend to Rik and then as a writer, which is a tiny thing I personally find annoying. because in the context of TYO its her instrumental contributions as a writer/co-creator that should be her legacy, not her relatively brief relationship with Rik, right? and idk, it almost gives the impression that she was tacked on because she was Rik's girlfriend and like she just helped out on the writing when really she was a Co-Writer and Co-Creator, which I feel is a big difference. Lise had a job running a pub theater, had a drama professor for a father, had written for Kevin Turvey in A Kick Up The Eighties, etc, so I don’t think she would’ve been completely unfamiliar with writing, even comedic writing, at least not substantially less than Rik even though she wasn't a comic like him; i’m basically saying she was also a very valuable asset for the writing/creation of TYO and was not just There for no reason. she and Rik together came up with the sitcom idea in the first place! 

right, and that's the other thing, I get the impression that she and Rik weren't only romantic partners but arguably creative partners. like, from Rowland's quote you can tell that his live performances were refined with her. and the success of his live stage performances led to Kevin Turvey and Boom Boom, which led to TYO, all of which helped jump start his stardom. all while she was quite literally on the sidelines/in the dark, again contributing. which really brings to mind the quote "behind every great man is a great woman." not that she should be credited with Rik's success, nor am I saying Rik owed his success to her, obviously he was very talented on his own. i’m just acknowledging that she did have a hand in his success. and, well, i was very disappointed to learn that Rik cheated on her for years and the way he dealt with her and Barbara's pregnancies. of course it's unfortunate timing to meet your future wife while you're already in a relationship, but the same happened to other people in their circle (Ben/Sophie and Ade/Jennifer) and they did not have affairs. and to meet the other woman while Rik was playing a character which Lise cowrote and doesn't get credit for is unfortunate irony! and to continue the affair while she continued writing for his characters, which helped drive his career success. and the way he responded to the situation in that 2002 article was a bit dismissive IMO: “I suppose it wasn't very nice at the time… I don't feel at all guilty.” (not that he should feel guilty for marrying Barbara, but maybe for how he dealt with the situation/affair.) and because he's been interviewed about it and Lise hasn't, Rik had basically all the power and say in how the public perceives the story, for example not mentioning that Lise was pregnant at the time and lost her baby in this article (the media focusing on his perspective isn't his fault of course, but a side effect of how the media works. it’s just another unfortunate aspect of the situation.) i have to emphasize, this is all said with so much respect to Rik and his beautiful marriage and in no way am i trying to take away from his comedy or legacy! obviously I'm a huge fan of his work and I understand he was an imperfect man. and i know it's not that shocking that a celebrity has had affairs and i'm glad he and Lise could eventually make up. but to be a woman overlooked in the 1980s comedy scene and to have That happen with a comedy tv star you’ve worked with and supported for years sounds borderline traumatic to me. 

i just think all women in comedy deserve their flowers and appreciation and it drives me crazy to think she worked so hard and had to go through way too much shit and was so instrumental in the making of an iconic show and most people know nothing about her contributions/barely remember her (which isn’t really their fault, but the media’s i think, but at this point fans have the ability to learn more about her.) 

i’m honestly tempted to edit the Kevin Turvey wikipedia page, which I would bet no one cares about, just to add her name lol. also, if i had to GUESS i would guess that Lise was particularly influential in writing the pathetic embarrassing TYO moments-see Neil saying everyone hates him or Rick not knowing what a tampon is-and the slightly surreal elements-see the cast switching costumes which is never addressed again (of course though I acknowledge the writers were all roughly equally responsible for the scripts of the show.) honestly prior to this post i would’ve thought those elements were largely thanks to Rik (alongside the slapstick) because he loved playing loser characters and certain parts of Bottom were surreal (but i mean, it does appear he wrote the Elephanthead segment.) it’s very possible that he and Lise were equally into embarrassment humor of course, but i think Rik’s initial vision of Rick the Poet was more angry - so perhaps Lise helped bring the embarrassed, missing out on the joke, nervous energy aspect of Rick’s character more to light because Rick in the tampon joke really exemplifies those characteristics. like certainly Rick on TYO is delusional just like the initial Rick the Poet character on Boom Boom but he's also DEEPLY insecure. even just seeing the openings of Rick the Poet in Boom Boom... “My name’s Rick... SHUT UP!” (very determined! and also funny. he thinks he's “got” the audience) vs in Wogan as TYO Rick... “um... hi... my name’s... um... Wick.... what’s funny??” you can see a difference. obviously i think Rik had a large hand in this development but i would guess that Lise had quite a hand in it as well? this is all obviously guesswork about stuff that happened 40 years ago hahaha.

(did not mean to write this much on this topic omg!)

appreciation post for Lise Mayer!! she co-wrote The Young Ones (and The Bachelor Boys book, additional material like when they did Comic Relief, etc), which is well known. but she also wrote for other things in the alternative comedy scene like Rik Mayall and Ben Elton's comedy tour (source: BBC Breakfast Time interview)! and, something I didn't know until recently: she co-wrote/wrote for Kevin Turvey! she's not credited in his television appearances, but see below for sources.

i really loved the podcast episode she did with Alexei Sayle about TYO, you gain a lot of insight into her perspective! she also mentions misogynistic treatment like being asked to go make tea when they were doing script readings, not getting invited to a big BBC party because it was presumed she'd be Rik's plus-one, and getting groped at the BBC bar. it pissed me off on her behalf and partly prompted this post.

some specific accolades/accreditation/fun facts:

Rik crediting her with writing/conceiving the Kevin Turvey non-joke "All right, biting political satire: What do Lech Walesea and Menachem Begin have in common? They’ve both got foreign names! What do you mean it’s not funny?" (x)

Alexei Sayle in Thatcher Stole My Trousers crediting Lise with co-writing Turvey: "Lise was, like Linda for mine, a vital part of Rik’s career, co-writing both The Young Ones and Rik’s character Kevin Turvey..."

a 1987 source for Lise co-writing Turvey: "The assumption that women do not write comedy scripts was one with which Lise Mayer, co-writer of The Young Ones television series, has also had to contend. She started writing for Rik Mayall’s Kevin Turvey in the television series A Kick Up the Eighties..." (x)

Rowland Rivron (comedian who toured with The Comic Strip gang and lived with Rik and Lise) in What the f*** did I do last night?: "[Lise] also had the unenviable job of standing at the side of the stage when Rik was performing, and jotting down anything he said that was unscripted. If it got a laugh, it would be woven into the next night’s routine."

the only time i've ever seen a Rik Mayall/Ade Edmondson/Lise Mayer writing credit: for a poem called Distance which was collected in this anthology! Rik and Ade seem to have acted it out (or at least a version of it) in this 20th Century Coyote performance

Rik on Lise writing TYO: "‘She discovers different things: the comedy of embarrassment and awkwardness – she draws out the cheating and stealing that goes on in the house.’" (x) (Lise also says her "favorite comedy was always the comedy of embarrassment" in the Alexei Sayle podcast)

Rik: "... Lise Mayer wrote this great scene where I find a tampon in a handbag and it's my birthday party and I think it's a present because my character is Rick, who is such a git, he didn't know." (x)

Helen Lederer in Not That I'm Bitter, writing about being on The Young Ones: "[Lise] was known to be the brains behind it all, particularly the more surreal elements…"

she and Rik chose the bands (x)

Lise: “We’d have a table read at which point we’d discover that the script ran over an hour long, and then I’d have a sleepless night editing it.” Alexei: “You did that?” Lise: “Usually me, yeah…” (she later explains they'd present the script Monday and rehearsals were Tuesday, Wednesday-so she literally had one night to edit!) (x)

facts from the blu-ray commentary tracks:

Rick's yellow dungarees in Interesting were based off a picture of Lise in a similar pair

Lise wrote an essay about the tampon joke in Interesting so that the BBC didn't cut the scene (though they still edited it)

Paul Jackson (producer) credits Lise with arguing "you are seriously telling me that we cannot refer on television to something that happens to 50% of the population for about 30 years of their life? and we're not allowed to even refer to it" to make an executive back off about the tampon joke in a meeting

Lise came up with Neil's flowerpot covering in Nasty

Vyvyan/Vivian's name comes from Lise having lived in Vyvyan Terrace, Bristol

Lise thought of the cast switching costumes in Bambi (one of my favorite moments!!) (/end of commentary track facts)

this is guesswork, but i've seen Ben Elton and Rik Mayall's handwriting and i'm pretty sure the editing/handwriting on the bottom left on this script must be Lise's, which gives insight into what/how she wrote: (x)

i feel like it's easy for people to overlook or minimize Lise's impact, something that happens to female creators far too often. i hate when women's identities are framed around their association to a man-girlfriend to Rik in this case-which was the norm whenever i saw Lise discussed in articles/books/online discussions about TYO. it's important to know she was a writer and co-creator with her own identity and (underappreciated) contributions. The Young Ones (and Kevin Turvey, and things we don't even know she goes uncredited for) would not have been the same—or wouldn't have even existed—without her!

[cyphertripping]

Pride HCs! (all agents) 🌈

happy pride month :D here’s a fun little compilation of my personal headcanons for the agents/ if they were queer. obv all of the HCs are meant in good fun/ are my own thoughts so i’d love to hear y’alls thoughts or feedback :)

Word Count: 1500+

Warnings: slight NSFW mentions (not too graphic), including slight discussion of kinks

Astra

Astra probably doesn’t define herself purely within Western queer discourse

Despite this, she’s one of the best to talk about general queer crises as she’s very secure in herself— she’s always there with a grounding comment

She’s very open with her love

If she did identify with something, it’d probably be sapphic because she likes the ideology behind it

Breach

Breach figured out pretty early on that he was queer

Being an international criminal definitely gave him room to experiment, though not always in the safest ways

Like Astra, doesn’t really care about the specifics— he likes who he likes. Likewise, definitely down for a poly relationships

Part of the reason he was drawn to Raze when they met was not just because they were fellow engineers but because queer solidarity

Brimstone

Bear— need I say more?

This man definitely had a relationship/ pining with the guy in the photos in his office

The majority of the time he served, the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy was in place, and it weighed heavily on his mind as a gay man

If he has to act like he’s attracted to women, I want him to act like Captain Holt (B99)

Chamber

I saw the post about Chamber just being an “America-core Frenchman” and I agree so hard

Yes, he may put on airs of arrogance and superiority, but this man is the whiniest. Bottom. Ever.

He’s always so perfectly in control, in his manner and appearance, he enjoys letting go sometimes. Would enjoy being tied up and gun kink (enough said).

Also, trans (“Vincent” literally screams Victorian child wannabe)

Would use gold tattoos to decorate his top scars

Cypher

Omnisexual/ bisexual— I think the true tragedy of Cypher being forced to hide his identity is that he can’t have relationships/ hookups with everyone he finds attractive (which is, to be fair, a lot of people)

Though, assuming Nora is his wife and still alive, Cypher would remain faithful

He isn’t above flirting with other people though

Very slight voyeurism kink

Fade

Definitely a lesbian catgirl

Contrary to her abilities, I doubt she’s into BDSM/ heavy kink— she’s experienced so much horror in the eldritch realm, I imagine she just wants really caring sex/ relationships and isn’t as much into control play

Does really subtle things to celebrate pride, like rainbow studs or painting her nails rainbow

Jett

Jett would likely take a long time to come to terms with her sexuality, with her parents being a bit more conservative (let's go Asian parents!!)

Being at the VP was her first opportunity to really experiment and naturally, she latched onto the person she had grown closest with— Phoenix

My favorite HC is that Jett and Phoenix getting together was what made both of them realize that they prefer the other gender

I think Jett would like to be a bit more flexible with her own label, seeing herself as a sapphic

KAY/O

Kay/o gives demisexual vibes, as he would take a long time to process that he even liked someone and that it was possible with his programing

Given the theories about Kay/o being based off one of Brim’s old friends (and with all the imagery of them carrying each other) — perhaps romance could bloom there?

If he found he enjoyed sex, he would be incredibly disappointed he can’t give oral (like really just absolutely torn up about it)

Killjoy

Panromantic asexual— I think KJ is just someone who’s not that interested in sex, but romantically a lot of people

Obviously, I love KJ and Raze being girlfriends, and so I think Killjoy would be willing to have sex/ enjoys pleasuring Raze as she’s not sex-repulsed, just wouldn’t seek it out if her partner didn’t want it!

Would be interested in using different toys to see how Raze reacts

Neon

Bisexual queen— enjoys relationships with all people

Also trans, using she/they pronouns! It took them a long time to come to terms with being bisexual and trans, but they’re truly happy now, being able to do the work they love and be themself

Despite her electric fast abilities, Neon’s a hopeless romantic and enjoys taking relationships slow

A bit of a classic bisexual in that they’re constantly worrying that they’re faking it— what if they’re actually straight? Or just gay? All she knows is that she loves who she loves and tries to find solace in that

Would try to paint her surge protector rainbow

Omen

Omen is genderqueer (using all pronouns)— as their old life fades from their mind, I think they could find solace in gender expression and how they present. They’ve been called a lot of things— demon, a hollow shell of a man, but none of those feel quite right. Being genderqueer gives Omen a sense of control and for the first time, a label that feels right to them

Even though he can struggle with corporeality sometimes, he really enjoys giving hand jobs— it gives them something to focus their form on (though if Omen gets really excited, he might disappear into smoke a bit)

They are the ultimate malewife in the relationship

Phoenix

As said with the Jett HC, they were their realizations that they were queer

On Phoenix’s half, I see him as bisexual, with a leaning toward men (as for Jett, it just wasn’t the right fit— but it was being with her that made him realize he had a much larger potential for who he could love)

He would bug Yoru into showing him his drag fits and want to try it out

Raze

Lesbian all the way! Raze loves the deepness and explosivity of relationships with other women

Very respectful of KJ’s asexuality and they’ve had long talks about what each of their needs are

Doesn’t want to push KJ to have sex with her, but finds it amusing that KJ can make sex enjoyable for herself by making Raze the test subject

Not to get into explicit detail, but let’s just say Killjoy has definitely kept Raze up way longer than she expected

Reyna

While she may not identify as the term exactly, I think Reyna could be a graysexual lesbian, in the sense that she isn’t attracted to men, and doesn’t entirely enjoy sex

Headcanon that she faced a lot of pressure from being a conventionally attractive, authoritative latina— which pushed her into realizing she doesn’t enjoy male attention

If she is sexually attracted to someone, she’s into switching. She finds being top fun, but it’s a turn off if that’s expected of her all the time. Sometimes Reyna just wants to be taken care of :(

I think the Reyna/ Sage pairing is cute and could make for an interesting “coworkers to enemies to lovers” dynamic. They clearly have a lot of emotions toward each other, and their powers poetically contrast each other

She can be a bit of a sadist, especially if it’s a hookup, but tries to tone it down for Sage as their relationship develops

Sage

Didn’t think about sexuality for a long time, with pressures from her family and work

Following the first light incident and the awakening of her radiant abilities, Sage begins to finally self-reflect internally and honestly

Identifies primarily as gay/ queer. For all the nuance of Sage’s advice to others, she finds it enough to acknowledge that she loves differently and whom she loves is not who her parents expected of her

At the same time, Sage is the most likely to read up on queer discourse— she finds it interesting to see how others have grappled with the questions she has and how perspectives have changed over time within the LGBT+ community

Surprisingly really enjoys being a top and in control. It helps her relax and gives her a feeling of agency

In a pre-relationship to Reyna, perhaps Reyna was the first to realize her feelings, yet still acted aggressively. Sage took a long time to unwrap her identity and then eventually reached back out to Reyna, healing their past relationship

Skye

Queer and polyamorous— Skye loves to just go to a bar and meet others, have an adventure

While she doesn’t have particular kinks, she’s a very flexible and caring partner, would be happy to experiment with whatever

Most likely to settle on a farm with her partners, two dogs, and a myriad of other animals

Sova

The sort of person who always secretly knew he was gay. Also could see Sova as nonbinary, using they/he pronouns!

Didn’t really have to work through a lot of toxic masculinity to get to these realizations, as while sexuality/ gender aren’t really discussed where they’re from, it just wasn’t the focus

His hometown was so far north and cold that whoever brought in food was appreciated, regardless of gender. Survival and family was the largest emphasis

Enjoys wearing fur heeled boots as a treat to himself (also just when it’s cold enough to even warrant the boots they have from home)

They’re definitely either the gentlest top, or a power bottom

While enjoying some classic vanilla sex, is also into being tied up

Viper

Not asexual, but highly touch starved from isolating herself in her work

Bisexual, with a leaning toward women/ nonbinary folk. She’s had relationships with men but they just don’t satisfy her the same way (also she’s tired of being underestimated in science because she’s a woman)

Strong dom, takes care of her partners well (as meticulous as she is, not a detail goes out of place with aftercare). Also would be into breathplay

Yoru

I’m sorry, but he gives “you’re gay because you like men, I’m gay because I hate women, we are not the same” energy

With his interest in fashion and makeup, Yoru would enjoy drag, putting his own spin on it with Japanese culture— he’s more flattered than he’d like to admit when the other queens compliment his outfits and makeup

Honestly, he would struggle a lot with dismantling internalized homophobia and the toxic self expectations he has for himself— this would come out in inadvertently being an asshole on dates by accident

Yoru does get better over time, even supporting Omen while they were figuring out their gender crisis. The two of them have always bonded in their teleportation abilities and this solidifies their relationship further

[struggle-but-its-all-ocean-floor]

I'm here to once again complain about kpop redditors. Does kpop reddit suck? Yes. Have I found a better place to read kpop opinions? No. Twitter is a mess, Army Twitter isn't generally very critical of BTS, in any way, and tumblr still isn't the best place for kpop discourse. So, since I don't know many kpop fans, reddit it is.

Now, on this specific occasion I want to comment on the discourse surrounding BTS's solo careers. There are several bad takes I keep seeing that make me question if those people even know BTS.

V is more interested in an acting career / V is not interested in music. He did one (1) drama and has only in passing mentioned acting again, so why are people fixated on him acting and why do people think he doesn't want to do music? He has the most solo songs out of the vocal line, almost all of them self-written, and he's always recc'ing songs and sharing snippets of stuff he wrote. Does that seem like something a person with no interest in music would do?? On the same vein...

Jin wants to be an actor. / Jin isn't interested in music. He would rather shoot variety content. He literally said in the 2022 Festa that what had interested him in acting in the first place was the opportunity to try different things, but since he's already doing that as an idol he doesn't have an interest in acting anymore (he didn't say it couldn't happen though). Also, Jin did variety to make Army happy and to promote his music. He's too shy and loves to perform on stage so I doubt he's going to ditch music to become a full-time variety entertainer. He's also written several songs. Just because he's not as full of passion for music as some of the other members, or because he also likes food, alcohol and gaming, that does not mean he wishes to quit being an idol. He's worked too hard and come too far for kpop stans to say he'd rather just act.

J-Hope will be the most successful long-term. / J-Hope has the most solo potential. I know redditors love to hype up the least popular members in a group, but this is bullshit. So far, there is nothing that indicates J-Hope will be the most popular member. People used to say this because he released fun songs like CNS, but JITB is not GP-friendly. Yes Hobi is a great dancer, has great stage presence, is a good rapper, is charismatic, etc. but every member has qualities and if J-Hope isn't the most popular member among Army is it really likely that he will become the most popular member worldwide? Imo, apart from CNS, he hasn't made a lot of music that would appeal to a very broad audience, he hasn't even danced much as a solo artist, and his personality isn't any better than the other members. I don't know the future, but the amount of people who even now say J-Hope will be the most successful member long-term makes me think this is another case for over-hyping the "underdog" and undervaluing the "overrated" members.

Suga is only successful in SK. / Suga will only be successful as a producer. That That was a hit and Suga didn't just produce the song, he featured in it and is one of the reasons why the MV and song are so great. He also featured in Girl of My Dreams which did well internationally and has been receiving international coverage by attending NBA games and now the Valentino collab. Plus, D2 was really successful considering it's a pre-Dynamite release and is not pop. Suga has amazing stage presence, many people love his fast and aggressive rapping the most among the rap line, he's real, honest, and straight-forward in a relatable way, he talks about real issues in a relatable way, he's great at promoting their sponsors, he's charismatic and masculine yet cute, he knows how to make exciting yet accessible music, etc.. Stans often say he will be the most successful of the rap line but since popular takes are frowned upon they also say he will only be popular in Korea or that he might just become a producer. In how many different ways must the man tell you he wants to be on stage and making music for a really long time for you to get it?

JK may become the most successful soloist but only because he makes generic pop music. / He works better in a group and only his collabs were successful. / He's boring, shy and doesn't know how to promote himself. I know Jungkook is so popular no one wants to give him proper credit, but he only makes generic music, really? I agree that some of his music is generic, but in the end that is what people like (tons of legends made generic music but it's not considered generic anymore because it's old) and stans seem to conveniently forget all the other songs he's done: Euphoria? A bit generic, yet very successful and pretty timeless, but Begin and My Time? Not generic, that's 2 to 1. Still With You? Not generic, very popular all things considered. Magic Shop? A bit generic, but one of the most popular bsides that BTS themselves love to perform, with nice lyrics and concept. Stay? A bit like Magic Shop but it's the only unit song they still perform and imo one of the songs in BE that aged the best. My You? Aanother fan song. Fan songs tend to be a bit generic and sentimental but he only wrote the lyrics; My You wasn't supposed to become a real song and he was only given 3 instrumentals to choose from. Left & Right? As generic as Bad Decisions and Vibe, and not a solo or self-composed track, but no one calls Jimin generic for those songs. Film Out and Your Eyes Tell? Fans literally rave about those songs, but often seem to forget that it was Jungkook who wrote them for his mixtape. Love is Not Over? Beautiful, not generic, written by Jungkook, and he also wrote parts in Run BTS, Telepathy, Autumn Leaves, Run, No More Dream. Stay Alive? One of the least generic OSTs ever, but I guess it doesn't count because he didn't write it? Dreamers? Sounds like a FIFA song but grows on you like crazy. People love Waka Waka and no one calls it generic. Dreamers is like the new Waka Waka so why is it generic instead of a bop? Because Jungkook has great pop vocals, admires Westen pop artists and has some generic songs and song covers (mostly collabs or unofficial releases), he's being pigeonholed. It's not that I disagree that his current style, or image, is mostly pop and very GP-friendly, but the same could be said of BTS in general, yet we know they have range and aren't just basic or whatever. Saying Jungkook will only become successful because he writes generic music as if he doesn't have the ability to write different styles or as if BTS aren't popular because they also appeal to the GP is just condescending. Also, JK isn't the only shy artist out there and he's had to represent BTS by himself many times; he can do it. Left&Right wouldn't have broken any kind of records if not for JK and Dreamers and Still Alive did pretty well under the circumstances (one being the soundtrack of a boycotted WC with almost no promo and the other being a webtoon OST). Lastly, JK not promoting himself is also a weak argument since that's mostly Hybe's responsibility and he hasn't even debuted yet. Anyway, I just think there are too many double standards when it comes to Jungkook.

[mimiatmidnight]

Can I just say I am deeply uncomfortable with the squaddies (mainly on twitter) celebrating this Disney thing. Disney hasn't become any less evil just because they 'stick it to DeSantis' in order to protect their corporate greed.

The Sussexes should really distance themselves from this. And the squaddies need to understand when people are using the Sussexes for their own gain.

Agreed. But in fairness to the stans, they are far from the only ones. Pretty much all of Lib twt is following this saga and cheering along Disney "putting DeSantis in his place" lol. And like, I get it, people are just rallying against the more visibly, overtly evil entity at the current moment. But people online, especially within political discourse, tend to fall way, WAY too easily into the mentality of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." When most often the depressing truth of the matter is, no, we just have two enemies :/

Although yes, the squad is particularly susceptible to latching onto even the most vaguely positive public acknowledgment. But this specific case doesn't even fall into that category lol. It wasn't even about the Sussexes in particular, it's just a legal loophole for Disney to avoid the rule against perpetuaties by choosing a very visible legal class (current living descendants of the king) to set the expiration date for their contract. The only reason legal commentators even mentioned Lili is because she is the youngest of that class and thus expected to be the deciding factor of the timeline. But it could realistically be any of the five grandkids that'll be the last survivor.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. I honestly don't think most of the twitter stans even really read the story, I think they just saw the mention and the "Lili is now a Disney princess" jokes and everyone had a chuckle. A random story for the day. I definitely don't think this is anything H&M need to comment on at all.

[thecoolerliauditore]

Appreciate the heads up re: tone.

When i say taking fanon into canon, im talking about how fanon content e.g. fanart and fanfic have an unspoken layer of protection around them as a celebration of something and thus criticism of fanon is more petty than anything else. Obviously that happens anyway all the time but fanon is very personal and someone saying they disliked your fic or art Is personal.

Taking those fanon creators and putting them into the series is what I was referring to when I mentioned taking them into canon. The work is still coming from a place of love, but it is a part of the series now and people are naturally going to judge it as that first and foremost. You're taking these fandom people and spotlighting them for the judgments of not only the fandom but also the audience outside of it. That's a massive jump in the amount of eyes on you and your work, and alot more opinions that come flooding in.

TLDR it has nothing to do with the c/cc divide or lore stuff, maybe there were better or less confusing terms I could've used there but the language around this is kinda difficult to navigate since there's really very little stuff out there that's comparable. I didn't have an issue with the gimmick or the specific questions themselves I actually thought it was really fun.

The "meta" comment was also in reference to fandom meta, not life series meta. I talk about discourse alot on this blog but usually only in the context of the CCs, hence sharing my thoughts on my fellow fandom people is "too meta" for me.

As for specific examples of the "on edge" comment I'm referring to what I talked about in the replies. It's a very niche "on edge" but it certainly is "on edge". I could also provide the specific examples of that but again that feels. Too meta lol and I don't feel right publicly shaming them for posting out of emotion for what is again a situation I can't blame them for.

As for the actual confusion re: roleplay and the life series I think that's more or less irrelevant to what I'm talking about here and I can really offer my own thoughts on the matter but the rundown is: people like to take the events in the videos and interact with them as a narrative anyway regardless of CC intent. And sometimes the CCs do have more of a roleplay-orientated mindset than it appears (Pearl is a really good example and probably one of the more forward ones about her "character" being a different entity to herself). It's more or less just a fandom thing because writing with the mindset that THIS IS A REAL DEATH GAME THEY ARE ALL TRAPPED IN AAAAA is fun.

Thats the way I interact with it anyway and theres definitely some fun armchair psychology you could play with in figuring out how people approach things like the character and cc divide. But anyway it's not like you really have to think about any of it if it's a headache it's just fandom being fandom and I've been surprised in the past many times learning how many oomfs absolutely despise that system of thought lol.

In the end the feedback towards the gimmick was, as you said, overwhelmingly positive (which only makes the intense anti-crit agenda more annoying to me) so it's not like any of this will seriously impact the artimators or the series as a whole -- the series especially has gone through WAY worse hurdles. Hell one of them was like two episodes ago lmao

I wasn't the biggest fan of the gimmick tbh, but it wasn't too intrusive and I liked how it gave objects or curses instead of giving and taking lives, so it was not too bad I guess, but a bit too meta for my taste. Still worth it for Martyn fucking Littlewood going around, gaslighting everyone about the awnsers and the curses and also casually killing 4 people, he's such a weirdo and I aspire to be him actually

Oh yeah I have mixed feelings on this one cus on one hand. Good fun! Well designed! Funny! Gave us a lot of good moments and introspection on how the characters look back on specific events!

On the other hand it's 1. very much not my thang and 2. idk something deeper in here about this being probably the biggest involvement of fandom in the series itself and blurring the lines of "being nice to your fellow fandom members" and "people should be able to express how they feel about the series openly" a bit too much for me to feel totally at ease.

I've already seen some very. bad-faith responses to people just venting about disliking the gimmick and at least one person involved who seemed to have taken a negative reaction more personally. Not to mention the forums version of the quiz ending with "did you like our trivia" (and "'no" being an incorrect answer) and the ongoing already on-edge fandom within fandom relationship the artimator guys have with the masses.

I want to clarify and reiterate that I did have fun and liked the gimmick and don't fault the artimators at all for their reactions and certainly not for the direction the series has gone as a whole but I just think catapulting a group of fans from being well-known contributors to fanon to contributors to canon who may not be completely ready for that sort of transition is. Maybe not the greatest thing in the world is all. Like it's just yet another level of muddying the waters in terms of the "they're just having fun why are you so mad about people having fun" stuff that keeps popping up. Toxic positivity so on and so forth.

ANYWAY that aside yes I'm glad we all love Martyn what a fucking freak.

[protectchara201x]

(ignoring all the other juicy Deltarune 2 stuff to shove Chara Talks into it lololol)

I haven’t been super active on this blog because frankly I have like, three? looong analysis/theorycrafting posts I’ve been putting off working on and it fills me with shame to log in and see them waiting in my drafts.

But.

With the release of Deltarune Chapter 2, I wanted to talk kinda in general about how I thought it could impact the fandom’s perception of Everybody’s Favorite Demon Baby, and also point out something in specific about the Weird Route that might connect back to Undertale.

Putting it under the cut to avoid spoilers and long-winded ramblings for the unwilling. Includes spoilers for the Weird Route.

(NOTE: may update later if I notice more things for to put in section II. I’d like to make a full list of parallels if I can tidy them up.)

I. Pre- vs Post-Release Thoughts (you can skip down to II if you don’t care, it is genuinely Long and Pointless)

Okay, so first off. I got SO worried like, the day before the new chapter dropped? It hit me that whatever new stuff we got out of this, people would connect back to Undertale, and. Honestly, I really do hate connecting everything back to Chara, because I do think of Kris as their own character and I really like them and don’t want to ignore everything they got going on. But, I am first and foremost a shameless Chara stan and they’re very important to me, so I kinda... did spend a few minutes reeling from all the new DR stuff as its own stuff, and then immediately started thinking about how this would reflect back on Chara in Undertale lol.

But that’s ok for me to do here because this is my All Chara, Only Chara, All The Time blog, so I am gonna only really talk about Deltarune here to talk about them lol.

So yeah, I started getting anxious beforehand worrying about how everyone would take any and all implications and apply it to mean “aha, Chara IS evil!” The fakeout with the pie reveal in the anniversary stream was a big relief, but I still got worried leading up to the release about what could be in it.

Because part of why I’ve always thought that “Chara was genuinely evil from the start” and even “ok maybe not TOTALLY evil, but Chara was still a kinda bad person” were unlikely was, even if you throw out all the other popular Chara-sympathetic theories. To me, both these takes just seemed too below TF’s talent and the way he wrote all his other characters with depth and love; a Chara like the one these theories propose just doesn’t belong in a world created by TF, and the way the Dreemurrs talk about them overall, the way TF made a point of having Chara say they were guided and repeatedly, correctly blame you the player for the destruction in Kill-All, I was sure that he never intended them to ever be as bad as the fandom sometimes tried to make them out to be.

... Like, mostly sure. Like, 80% sure? Because he never ever talks about them, so it’s impossible say for sure, and it is still theoretically possible that “Chara was and is bad” was the cold-ass take he’d intended all along. So yeah, leading up to the release, I started getting antsy that whatever new lore came out of it, either he’d directly confirm “Chara was a villain?” “*cocks gun* Always has been” or there’d be something that’d at least heavily implicate them, or could be twisted to implicate them, as a negative force. More ammo to be used against them in the Chara Debate Circles would be a drag, and outright confirmation of them as a villain would honestly break my heart and I’d be forced to disown Toby Fox, My Beloved Cool Dad.

And, right now? Tell the truth, I’m SO relieved and I am SO happy. And not just because of how much depth and characterization it seems Kris is getting! (imo, because rn I just headcanon them as an unhappy teen desperately trying to keep their new friends going on adventures with them and trying to fight back against the player’s control)

I love how this chapter seems to be TF doing course-correcting based on fandom interpretations. Because Kris just isn’t evil, even if they are a knife teen, even if they are the Knight, they’re just NOT evil and that’s canon, baybeeee; it’s made clear in this chapter and the previous one that they love their family even outside of the player’s control, they care about their new friends even outside of the player’s control, they’re established as a weird creepy kid but no one sees them as scary or evil, they’re just Kris, and even in the Weird Route, TF made a point of hammering in the differences between Kris and the player in the Weird Route: Susie and Ralsei notice how distressed Kris seemed after you have Noelle ice Berdly, Noelle heard a voice that she said wasn’t Kris telling her to kill, and the FUCKING Spamton fight: “Kris called for help... but nobody came” again and again, and then “You whispered Noelle’s name”... you, not Kris.

I know TF has never commented much on fans’ perceptions of Frisk and Chara, or who exactly is pulling strings in different routes. But after all this, and especially after seeing all the little winks and nods to fandom jokes in this chapter (what comes to mind: pulling everyone’s leg by seeming to have Kris attack Toriel with a knife only to reveal that pie theory was right, Susie not liking Ralsei’s real face as much as his shadowed one, Ralsei with a gun getting referenced with the ad, Kris getting a joke fixation with knives after the fans made Chara and Kris have knife obsessions as a joke), and seeing what looks like him try to correct some things (what stuck out to me was doubling down on showing that Kris is loved and valued in their family: lots of fans came away from Chapter 1 thinking that Kris was not valued as much as Asriel, but here we see that Toriel is supportive of Kris’ friendship with Susie, and it’s stated that Asriel is the one who used the crappy controller, not Kris) -

I think while he hasn’t commented directly, while he admitted to being overwhelmed by Undertale’s success, while he tends to be pretty tight-lipped about the lore (whether that’s because it’ll be addressed by future chapters or because he prefers to let fans sleuth it out), this chapter convinced me that Toby does keep tabs on fan reactions in Deltarune, so he probably does with Undertale too and would know about all The Discourse surrounding Little Mx Pink Cheeks (and in turn, popular theories like Narrator Chara... Toby if you integrate Narrator Chara into Deltarune being a borderline creepypasta and have the narrator start talking directly to the characters or to the player or the characters start talking to the narrator I will lose my damn B E A N S).

(Kris and Chara not being demonized and the narrator interacting directly with the characters were the only two things on my wishlist going in, I was fine with literally anything else happening lmao)

I even kinda think he’s going out of his way to separate Kris and the player because we didn’t get it before with Undertale, we still insisted that Frisk or Chara was the one doing it, and he’s even using Kris to show that even if this kid can be scary, maybe even mean, and maybe they’re even the Knight (with their reasons unknown), they’re still not a bad kid, they’re still funny and likable, and they still genuinely love their family and friends - which falls in line with Undertale’s cast of complex but likable people who can be antagonists and make mistakes but still aren’t truly bad people, and imo is a direct response to some people fixating on the idea that Chara was always evil because they seem scary/complicated.

... Which is a long way to say that I came out of Deltarune with my confidence fully restored about TF’s intentions with Chara and Kris. Even if he never comments on Chara directly, now I really don’t think TF thinks they’re evil or ever intended for them to be. Deltarune convinced me more than ever that Chara is meant to be complex, yes, and able to be influenced to do horrible things, but they were never intended to be as malicious or shallow as some fans insist.

TLDR:

Toby Fox read your mean fanfiction where Chara is a bad abusive serial killer no one likes, and he made Deltarune in revenge.

... Hm? Ah, you’d like me to get to the point! Right this way!

II. Undertale, Deltarune, and The Point

While no doubt some will still take the voice Noelle hears to be Chara influencing her to turn her into a murderer (I haven’t gone looking for it yet, but I’m sure it’s already a thing because I know this fandom), since it’s made too clear by the game that they can’t blame Kris for this one, I think at this point that’s just being too stubborn to consider other ideas.

If you believe in the totally made up idea used in so many fanfics that Chara is an evil spirit trying to whisper in Frisk’s ear to kill everyone, literally (for some reason) the embodiment of raising stats, and gets more control over people who have increased LV to take over their body... sure. Could be them, they did talk about moving on to the next world and all. I mean, that wouldn’t really make sense because it’s literally never implied in the actual game that Chara encourages you to kill outside of the Kill-All Run or even wants you to, certainly not as the narrator and we get no hint of them doing this as an unseen, unheard third-party either.

Not to mention they’re NOT literally possessing you because of increased LV; they don’t control you even with high LV in any Undertale route other than arguably the Kill-All, and if you fail the Kill-All and it turns into a high-body count Neutral, Chara suddenly stops using first-person narration and showing up in mirrors entirely even though they were showing themself before, the LV remains the same or even can get raised as high as LV 19, nor do they suddenly take over in any other Neutral runs. We can speculate on why (personally, I’d place this either on Chara’s mindset, such as them sinking into shock from the trauma or becoming more assertive as the player feeds their megalomania, or as a sign of Frisk’s withdrawal, leaving Chara alone in the body to take the reins and act out the player’s orders), but canonically, no, Chara does not take over due to high stats.

In fact, there’s even more evidence against this. First-person narration also exists for fleeing your battles in Undertale, even on Pacifist runs with base stats, 0 EXP, and an LV of 1. Since Chara is established to use first-person narration to refer to themself, is the only one who canonically does so, and is confirmed to be present even in all runs through their name and memories always showing up, it seems pretty likely that Chara can take control to flee battle. That means an increase in stats is not a sign of their presence or control, in Undertale or Deltarune.

The most damning blow to the idea that Chara is the voice corrupting Noelle are the lines in the fight with Spamton I mentioned. Kris called for help, but nobody came. You whispered Noelle’s name. Well hold on. If that’s Chara, shouldn’t it be “I whispered Noelle’s name”? As soon as you’ve officially started the Kill-All in Undertale, Chara starts up their “It’s me, Chara” schtick right away, right there in Toriel’s home in the first area, and if they weren’t the narrator before, they’re beginning to speak through the narration now. If the voice was Chara, surely Toby Fox knows it’d be a way bigger “oh shit” moment if the creepy scary hidden route once again switched into first-person, scaring us the same way he did before when we first saw “It’s me, Chara” and knew something was wrong; unfairly or not, their reputation as a villain is still well established and hinting to Chara’s presence with a simple “I” would drive the menace even further, if he intended for them to simply be a demon that possesses player characters when you grind enough. But it’s still just you. The player.

The Weird Route does even more to help Chara’s case than that. Not only is it made pretty clear that Kris and the player are separate, and the player is the one responsible for corrupting Noelle and making her kill... consider how similar Noelle and Chara are, in the Weird Route and the Kill-All Route.

This “voice” that “guides” them in growing strong, compelling them to kill everyone in order to fight for them, eventually driving them to murder people they know. Chara calls themself “the demon that comes when people call its name”, and you whisper Noelle’s name to have her appear to kill Spamton. Noelle’s conflicting emotions towards Kris and the voice as she is manipulated, as she becomes more violent and sadistic, as she goes into shock; does that not sound like Chara, who flipflops between holding you dear as their partner and wanting to move on to the next world together, to be together forever, and them being disgusted by your refusal to accept consequences and the perverse enjoyment you get in killing everyone again and again? Chara, who clings to their quirky narration for much of the Kill-All, but keeps slipping up, who becomes terrifyingly cold, aggressive, power-hungry, and even sadistic, yet still calls Undyne “the heroine”, still seems to still care about their locket, still has moments where they seem to falter?

Noelle does put up significantly more resistance to the voice’s commands than Chara does, and at least much more visibly shows distress and trauma. I don’t think this is a black mark on Chara’s chara-cter either, or an indication of them being more violent or cruel.

For one, while Noelle is still herself with her own soul, it is heavily implied by Chara, Flowey, and Undertale’s lore that Chara was reincarnated without their own soul, at best perhaps attached to Frisk’s (or yours): as I speculate in one of my currently unfinished theories, while monster souls are made up of love, compassion, and hope and thus Asriel was reincarnated without these qualities, it could well be that human souls are correspondingly made up of their own multiple traits, namely determination, patience, bravery, integrity, perseverance, kindness, and justice; if true, a soulless Chara would be lacking these qualities, which would make them less equipped to resist the player’s commands or to feel as torn up about it.

Also, the player has a hold on them both as “party members” to the player’s vessels, but it is also possible that the player naming Chara and having them directly attached to Frisk also gives them a stronger connection to Chara they can abuse, similar to how Kris and Frisk (as the player’s direct vessels) have much less autonomy than Kris’ party members.

(Fun observation: We know that when the thing controlling Kris forced Noelle into becoming a killer and using her to kill Berdly, Kris was horrified and shaken-up according to Susie and Ralsei. How do you think Frisk felt watching Chara be used to slaughter the Underground and then erasing the world when they’re totally corrupted?)

And lastly... look, Noelle and Chara are both minors, but Chara is significantly younger - a small child compared to Noelle’s teen. I know it’s fiction and strong wills and determination and anime is real and all, but a traumatized young child who died two violent and awful deaths back-to-back, may have literally experienced being a corpse in their own coffin/grave for who knows how long, and then came back ”confused” only to immediately start hearing a voice relentlessly commanding them to kill everyone?? I can absolutely see a traumatized kid shutting down and just going with it out of fear at first, before the LV sets in.

TLDR:

What you do to Noelle in the Weird Route is the same fucking thing you do to Chara in the Kill-All Route.

[softyoongiionly]

Portraits of a Tiger || 02

Legends of a great and equally terrifying warrior nicknamed the Tiger have been emerging from your fellow villagers for quite sometime. Stories of his skill, his stealth and his supposed wickedness have been passed around to the point where he is more prophecy than person. You have lived your life with a strong sense of conviction, rarely letting gossip influence your opinion. However, you would be lying if you said that his legacy didn’t intrigue you. When the Tiger and his infamous army arrive in your village to refuel, you come face to face with the man behind the myth.

And no amount of marketplace gossip would ever be enough to capture the true complexity of his nature.

Pairing: Merchant! Reader x Warrior! Yoongi

Genre: Adventure, Romance, Smut (later), Fluff, Angst

Word Count: 7.1k

Warnings: language, depictions of violence both verbal and physical however they are fairly mild, mentions of war and power dynamics, there will be smut in future parts so, (18+ only please).

Current Tag List (let me know if you want to be tagged!): @gldnrecs​ @naajix​ @bluewhale52​ @nikkikenji​ @lustedkisses​ @loveyoongles​ @hear-me-growl​ 

A/N: oh hiiii. I’m a little obsessed with this universe so, I hope you guys are enjoying all the Warrior! Yoongi content. Love you!

Once again, I want to shout out @bulletproofbirdy​ for everything she has done to make this fic possible. I love you so much! 

“I’m just saying, some of the women in this village should at least attempt it. Wedding a solider is an honor, not to mention the fact that it sets you up for life.”  

Jane’s voice sounds beside you and it causes you to smile to yourself; she’s always coming up with plans for other people, attempting to live vicariously through them.  

“Like Y/N- you’re young-” She tilts her head, her frizzy red hair almost twirling above her scalp, “-ish. You would probably be able to convince one of them to take you for a bride.”  

You scoff, “Thank you for having so much faith in me Jane, I’ll keep that in mind.”  

Jane quickly moves on to another girl in the market, throwing the same amount of enthusiasm her way.  

You know she means well, even if she is a little brash at times.  

It’s been two days since the market place was riddled with thieves and soldiers. Things have mostly gone back to normal apart from the same armored men loitering about your village.  

Over the time that’s past, you’ve been able to meet or at least learn more about Yoongi’s fleet.  

Seven men, each of them possessing an incredible amount of skill, made up the group behind the gossip.  

Seokjin was indeed in charge of community outreach (and the cooking) but, he was also an incredible marksmen; his aim was unlike anything you’ve ever witnessed. Whilst you were cleaning up yesterday evening, you saw a few of them practicing and Seokjin through a dagger from nearly 200 feet away only for it to land directly in the center of the target.  

Namjoon, you met in the library whilst you were reading more about a new remedy you were planning to try. He was extremely brawny but very mild mannered. He introduced himself and thanked you for the bread you had delivered and upon speaking to him, you learned of his position in the fleet; psychological warfare. According to Namjoon, he was in charge of depleting the moral of their enemies by various means that he didn’t specify.  His gentle demeanor made it very difficult for you to believe that he was apart of such a dangerous team but you realized that, that was the very reason he was so successful.  

Jungkook, according to Seokjin, was the fleet’s first responder: The first man on the ground during a battle and usually the last one to leave. He had two things on his side: speed and strength. The fleet calls him the Terror Cub which is supposed to be a play on Yoongi’s nickname. You’ve also learned that Jungkook is Yoongi’s younger brother and upon minimal observation, you can tell they have a very close bond.  

Jimin, you met at the tavern during an evening out with Rachel. He was incredibly kind and his beauty was nothing short of offensive. His position in the army made sense; he was known as a Red Herring or in civilian terms: the distraction. Jimin’s beauty and charm was the fleet’s secret weapon and after spending a bit of time with him that night, you could definitely see why. Without a uniform, Jimin looks like a soft and unassuming man. A target would never suspect his true intentions.

Taehyung and you had a lot in common as he too was an Apothecary only- he didn’t specialize in the same type of medicine you did. Taehyung was the fleet’s resident poison expert. You met him at the tavern as well as he was the man Jimin hung off of the entire night. You learned of their romance throughout the evening and, couldn’t help but admire the sheer power between them. The Herring and the Poison Expert, what a duo.

Hoseok was still a bit of a mystery to you as he rarely ventured into the village. According to Seokjin, Yoongi placed him charge of training the new recruits specifically in the art Hoseok was most familiar with: archery. Upon the introduction of his position, you quickly recalled a story regarding the legendary archer.  Hoseok’s expertise had made it into the discourse in your village roughly a year ago when the Royal Army took down invaders in the snowy mountains just west of your home. In accordance with the story, Hoseok defeated their front line from the treetops before they were able to reach the rest of his fleet. You hadn’t had a chance to speak with him much but, he did introduce himself when you brought a second basket of bread to the camp.  

Aside from being their general, their leader and, the most expert swordsman in all of the land, Yoongi was also the fleet’s strategist. He mapped their every move, their every course, their objectives and several precautionary measures should things go sour. He was essentially the brains behind everything but of course, you didn’t learn this from him. The rest of his men had revealed bits and pieces about him throughout your interactions with each of them.  

In addition, you also learned that Yoongi’s army was a defensive force. They were established as a means of protection by the Queens which would mean that the stories of them ruthlessly invading territories around the region were null and void. The seven of them preceded over a much larger fleet; 22,000 men who follow closely behind them but never fight unless Yoongi calls in for backup.

The Tiger’s fleet was the frontline, the brain, heart and soul of the royal army.  

You feel a bit of sadness for them. They have done so much to protect this land and although they are revered and admired, they are also unnecessarily feared.  

The morning passes easily and it’s one of those days where you actually enjoy being out in the plaza.

The weather was nice, temperate and cool just as you like it.  

Clouds encase the otherwise sunny sky which keeps it from growing too warm in the marketplace and, with the slight breeze wafting throughout the atmosphere, you feel content.

A minimal afternoon crowd makes it easy for you to provide accurate and lengthy consultations to your patrons.

“Yes- just apply this three times a day and you should notice a significant reduction in the inflammation.” You smile sweetly, passing a lot the salve to your customer before you notice a familiar color making its way through the crowd.

It’s platinum and the curve of the ponytail its attached to belongs to someone you hadn’t anticipated on seeing.

It causes your heartrate to go a little wonky whilst you attempt to look away.

The salve Yoongi purchased from you days earlier prove to be very popular amongst his crew and now his tin that was supposed to last him three months is nearly gone.  

He may have other reasons for returning to the market as well but, his story was air-tight and would need no further explanation.

He would know, he checked.

“Good morning,” You smile at him and Jane’s train of thought is derailed the moment she sees your next customer. “How can I help you?”

He raises his hand, a large metal tin between his fingers, “Do you have any more of this? I woke up this morning to find that my men have ransacked it. If you have the stock, I’d like to buy 7 more tins so I can have one of my own.”  

You can’t help it but allow your eyes to widen at his request; the profits from 7 more tins would be enough to feed your family for the next month.

But you compose yourself quickly and nod, “I have more than enough- you said 7 right? Did you want the big tins again?”

He lowers his hand and sighs, his eyes flitting back towards his tent, “Please. I don’t trust the younger ones to use it as you instructed so, I want to make sure it lasts as long as it can.”

Snickering, you bend down and grab the requested amount of tins for him and nod in understanding, “Makes total sense. I’m guessing one of the main culprits was Jungkook? I saw him rubbing his hands together for a really long time and, now everything makes sense.”  

Yoongi smirks, his teeth peeking out between his lips, “Aish that kid- he's gonna give me a heart attack one of these days.”

“He’s younger brother right? I can see the resemblance...” You tease, wrapping the tins in paper,  spending a little too much time on each one and, no it’s totally not because you’re trying to prolong your interaction with Yoongi.

“Adopted brother yes- my parents took him in when he was 7. It’s interesting you think we look alike though, you’re not the first person to say that.” Yoongi’s hands have found their way to his uniform, smoothing it out subconsciously.

“Oh really? Yeah I wouldn’t have suspected that, you guys have the same mouth-” His brows raise at your comment and the glint in his eye makes you backtrack, “his lips are a little bigger I guess though so- uh not that I’m looking closely at your mouth or anything but-”

Yoongi starts chuckling then, the shakiness in your tone amusing him “I understand what you mean don’t worry. What’s my total?” He nods to the tins, which you’ve finally finished wrapping.

“Oh! Right, I’m sorry- your total is 24.50...” You slide the tins towards him carefully before Jane’s shrill voice sounds from beside you.

“Give the man a discount Y/N, he’s practically buying out your entire stock!” She urges, gesturing wildly towards your cart.

Your mouth opens as your eyes move quickly between her and Yoongi “O-”

Yoongi raises his hand, “Nonsense. Ms. Y/L/N’s products are some of the finest I’ve come across and are certainly worth the full price-  24.50 you said?” His brows raise again, looking directly into your eyes, not even bothering to turn to Jane’s direction.

The direct way in which he addresses her sends a bit of heat to your cheeks. Jane is someone you have mutual respect for but, her attitude isn’t your favorite nor is her incessant need to put her nose in everyone’s business.  

“Yes, thank you.” You smile sheepishly, bending down once more to grab a paper bag from beneath your counter, “I’ll put in a few bags of rose hip and peppermint tea free of charge; they help with inflammation. I know you all will be training over the next few weeks so, you should get some use out of it.”

He offers a small smile and bows his head, “Thank you. Uh-” Yoongi turns once again back towards his camp, “Seokjin hasn’t stopped talking about your bread, has he arranged for you to bring more?”

Giggling, you accept his payment, tucking it away beneath the counter and nodding, “Yes. I’ll be by this evening with a new batch.”

“Has he offered any payment? We appreciate the hospitality of course but, I do hope he plans on compensating you for your trouble.”

Waving him off, you shake your head and slide the bag his way, “It’s no trouble at all honestly, I’ve been wanting to hone my baking skills for quite some time so, this just gives me an excuse to do so.”  

He grimaces, “Still, you should be-”

“I really don’t mind Yoongi, I promise. This transaction is going to take care of my family and I for quite some time. Not to mention the fact that you all saved my village A LOT of trouble. Take the free bread.” You insist, smirking slightly and if you aren’t mistaken, you notice a light blush come across his cheeks.

Clearing his throat, he steps back away from your cart, moving the smile off of his lips as best as he can.

He likes the sound of his name on your lips a little more than he cares to admit.  

He needs to get out of this plaza before he smiles at you one more time.  

It’s getting a little out of hand.

“Appreciate it.” He mutters before bowing his head once more, “I suppose I’ll see you this evening then?”

Something flutters around in your stomach, “You will. Thank you again for coming by.”

His mouth fixes over a tight smile as he fashions the bag around his wrist, which is quite delicate for a man of his nature.  

When Yoongi is fully out of earshot, you take a deep breath and begin straightening up your cart, trying to distract your mind from his presence

Jane however, has been foaming at the mouth ever since he shot down her suggestion of a discount and quickly rushes over to you, smacking her hand across your arm.

“Ow! Ok- listen we have got to find another way to greet each other because, you’re going to leave some permanent damage on me one of these days.” You admonish, your brow furrowing as you rub your arm.

She ignores you and leans down, her eyes wide with curiosity, “You ARE going to pursue him aren’t you? He’s clearly interested, did you see the way he smiled?! He was quite literally hanging on every word you said!” She whisper yells, her eyes darting around  

This conversation is giving you deja vu and given your flustered state you don’t necessarily have the capacity to argue with her.

“Maybe he’s just kinder than you all gave him credit for.” You answer coolly, giggling as she tugs frantically at your dress.

“He’s kinder to YOU. He barely gave me a second look.” She insists, sound slightly bitter

You quickly move on, waving over another customer, a smile still on your lips, “Aren’t you happily married Jane? I’m sure your husband looks at you plenty...”

She kisses her teeth and rolls her eyes, “Happily is a loaded word dear. Regardless, my point stays the same. You said you were bringing bread over to him didn’t you? Are you planning on using that chance to further this little bond you two have?”

Its your turn to roll your eyes now, “I plan on using that chance to deliver bread.”

With a grumble, Jane reluctantly returns to her cart as she too has a customer heading her way.

The rest of the day passes easily, which you are quite thankful for given that you’re evening plans are a little out of the ordinary.  

It’s hard to get Yoongi out of your mind but, you really do try, he is just a man after all.

Just an interesting, intelligent, handsome-

“Y/N...” Rachel’s voice drags you out of your train of thought and causes you to quickly shift on the stool towards her.

You went to her house after you day had ended because:

She’s the absolute best

and

She has the better oven

“What? Sorry I was-”

She smirks knowingly, sprinkling flour over the dough on the cutting board, “Just thinking about how you plan on charming the Tiger tonight?”

You’d like to deny it but, she isn’t entirely wrong.

Instead, you just go back to wrapping the current loaf of fresh bread in the same paper you use to wrap you wares back at the market.

The cheese in this batch makes the outside of the bread a little greasy so, you always gift it with some wrapping; it also keeps the bugs away.

“You know- you should come with me. It's your one-way ticket to Jungkook, you only have a few weeks to gain his hand in marriage.” You point out, smirking.

Rachel blushes profusely, “I- well- you know?!?! He really is something.” She stutters, swallowing back a bit of her nerves before continuing, “I don’t know if I can do that. You've seen me in social settings...”

You snort and point in her direction, “I have. You’re great in social settings. We panic- in private- together remember? That’s how we bond.” Clenching your fist to your chest dramatically, you continue with the rest of her concern, “Honestly he’s not that intimidating face to face. He was practically hiding behind in his friend when I was there...”

Jungkook had stood out to you for that specific reason; his demeanor at the plaza would have never lead you to suspect his shy and rather docile nature.  

He certainly was perplexing.

Rachel smiles whimsically, staring off at nothing while she half-heartedly kneads the dough. She then lets out a sigh before giggling at the end of your sentence, “I suppose you’re right. He seems gentle underneath that brawny exterior. He’s so handsome too- and such a high rank for being so young. I’m just a village teacher...”

You smirk again, “Gentle is one way of putting it.” Then you scoff, feeling actual offense at her comment regarding herself. To express your distaste, you throw a piece of dough her way, “Stop that. You are literally the most eligible woman in this entire village. You are an artist, an educator and-” You take a bite out of a spare loaf of bread and shove it in your mouth, relishing in it’s doughy, cheesy texture. “- a damn good baker. Don’t sell yourself short.”

She rolls her eyes playfully, “Oh alright...you’re quite eligible yourself you know! How does it feel to have caught the eye of the Tiger himself, hm????”  

“So you’re coming?” You ask excitedly, bouncing on your stool before promptly looking away in denial, “I have done no such thing. He’s just being friendly to me because I cured his dry skin. Soft hands will change a man let me tell you...”  

“Ohhhh I suppose I will.” She sighs with a shrug to her shoulders, “My curiosity will always get the best of me, for better or worse.” She leans closer to her friend, conspiratorially “we can’t have that Tigers paws TOO soft—don’t do your job TOO well, oh esteemed herbalist.”

“In sickness and in health til death do you part...” You finish with raised brows, before giggling “esteemed and eligible? Now you’re just flattering me. I don’t think he’ll need to come back to my cart at least, I gave him enough salve to last the winter.”

Rachel shoves rounds the counter suddenly, heat blooming on her cheeks as she tries to shove you off the stool, “Oh YOUUUUU!!” She rolls her eyes again, looking at you pointedly, “Regardless of salve, you don’t give yourself enough credit. All jokes aside, Y/N, from what you have told me about your run ins with the general, he seems to appreciate your conversation. I don’t imagine people treat him with such frankness.”

Your laughter increases as you hold onto the counter for dear life, “Hey easy!” Biting your lip, you try to think of the right words to say without giving yourself away, “He’s very interesting. I am- you know, very intrigued by him that’s for sure.”

She lets you off the hook, her own laughter dying down as she returns to her place, “He is fascinating...I am a bit surprised at how different he seems to be from the stories...it raises so many questions like- how did he end up where he is?”

“I don’t know honestly. I kind of feel bad that so many people had him wrong- Seokjin said they don’t get a lot of hospitality due to the rumors about Yoongi.”

Rachel pouts before turning to pull one of the last batches of bread out of the oven. As she tugs the tray out of it’s warm resting place her lips tug up into a smirk “Oh it’s Yoongi now? On a first name basis with the nation’s greatest general I see- that was quick.”  

It’s your eyes that roll this time, heat rushing to the tip of your nose, “That IS his name... I can’t keep calling him Tiger now can I? That would be weird...”

She continues smirking but, her eyes hold a bit of sympathy as she addresses the rest of your sentence, “Seriously though, that breaks my heart for them...he handled that raider with more kindness than he deserved. It makes me wonder how many other rumors are unfounded.”

“Yeah it really surprised me- I was expecting there to be bloodshed...I still can’t believe he just let most of them go. I’ve seen soldiers administer worse punishments for lesser offenses.  

“I suppose you are right. Yoongi seems to be shrouded in mystery, but perhaps you will have a chance to learn more about the man behind the myth?” She suggests, brows rising with her inquiry.

“Typical teacher- rooting for me and all my hopes and dreams.” You tease as the two of you load up the bread into the basket, “Perhaps YOU will have a chance to learn more about the man behind the chest plate hm? Are you all ready to go?”

She smiles, “I will ALWAYS root for you!” And as the two of you begin packing everything up she huffs, blushing once again, “You really won’t stop teasing me, will you?”

“Nope.” You smile cheekily, dodging as she tries to wack you, “I can see it now- you, educating the youth and him- protecting the innocent. It’s a match made in heaven.”  

Rachel offers a shy grin as the two of you head out the door, “A girl can daydream...”

The walk to the camp doesn’t take long but within the short period of time you spend walking, your stomach manages to work itself up into a frenzy.

“Ok- the main tent is the one with the flag on the-” You begin, pointing it out to Rachel but your voice is quickly swallowed as you spot him:

The Tiger aka Yoongi, strolls through the courtyard of their camp towards a group of awaiting recruits in the distance.

He’s wearing crème colored linen pants and a matching peasant blouse, his long white tendrils wrapped up into a bun atop his head. He strides through the grass with confidence, his dark eyes observing his surroundings.

“You were saying?” Rachel eyes you curiously before following your line of sight.

Before she can say anything, you rush to return to your explanation, “Seokjin is the one that I made the arrangements with so, we can deliver these in there.” You gesture to the main tent, swallowing back a bit of nerves.

You don’t see many of Yoongi’s men out in the yard with the exception of Namjoon. He’s sitting on a bench, dressed entirely in red, sketching on a piece of parchment.  

As you ring the bell of the tent, Rachel subconsciously shifts behind you.

“Is that my bread?!” Seokjin yells from inside the tent and after a bit of shuffling, he pushes aside the entrance, a bright smile on his face, “Ugh it is. You are a godsent Y/N...” His head cocks as he sees Rachel standing beside you, “Oh hello, you must be Y/N’s friend. Kim Seokjin, did you assist with this delivery?”

He extends a hand to her warmly and Rachel graciously takes it, smiling softly.

“I did. It’s very nice to meet you. You can call me Rachel...”

He returns her smile, bowing his head, “Rachel- that’s a beautiful name. Thank you for doing this, I haven’t seen these men so energized in quite some time.” Seokjin smirks fondly before his teeth tug at his bottom lip, “Would you two mind joining me in here for a moment? I have a question I’d like to ask you.”

You nod despite your confusion, still in disbelief that you’ve made contact with the nation’s most infamous men.

“Of course.”

Rachel nods politely, following behind you as Seokjin holds the entrance open.  

Your hit with the smell of wood as you enter their tent along with a hint of musk. It’s genuinely surprising that the odor isn’t stronger given that multiple men likely share these quarters. There’s several cots on the floor and mini lanterns adorning the ropes holding the tent together. Supplies, personal belongings and various weapons litter the floor and tabletops and, in one of the cots you spot Jungkook, laying down, shirtless.  

In front of his face sits a book that needs no introduction; a famous military strategy guide written by an ancient legend. Befitting, you think, of course they would have their men brushing up on military technique.  

Your brain also hones in on the man holding the book:

Jungkook is truly beautiful. His chocolate locks reach the base of his neck, disheveled but luxurious whilst his tan and soft features are screwed up in concentration. He doesn’t notice your presence at first but, Rachel certainly notices him.

You can hear her swallow beside you, her face turning bright red as her body subconsciously shifts closer to you.  

Her lips part silently and she tries her best to tear her eyes away from his body. The broadness of his chest and the smooth curves of his stomach is enough to capture your attention as well despite the fact that muscle doesn’t normally warrant a reaction from you.

As you the two of you grow closer to him, his eyes finally flit in your direction and, they grow wide like saucers. Hastily, he throws his book to the side before ripping his blanket off the end of his cot and wrapping it around himself.

“Jungkook-ah, make yourself decent. We have guests. I believe you’ve met Y/N already but, this is her friend Rachel...” Seokjin gestures elegantly to both of you, unbothered and unaware of the lingering tension in the air.

“Yes Hyung-” He mutters and grabs his brown linen shirt off the floor and tugs it over his head. He stands, almost robotically and extends his hand towards her, “Nice to meet you.”

Rachel moves in a similar way, her eyes still widened slightly whilst she takes his hand.

“Hi.” She responds, her voice smaller than usual and it causes Seokjin to quirk his brow at the two of them.

Jungkook visibly swallows, his prominent Adams apple bouncing in his throat as his hand sort of lingers against hers.

“I like your- “ His eyes flit to the top of her head, “ribbon. It’s blue.”

Seokjin smirks knowingly at the two of them now and he opens his mouth to break the tension before Rachel speaks up.

“Thanks!” She says a bit too loudly before swallowing the volume a bit, “I like your shirt. It’s very brown- a nice brown.”

Jungkook offers a tiny smile, dropping her hand reluctantly and before their encounter can continue, Seokjin speaks up.

“Uh ok, hooray for first meetings hm?” He nods to the exit of the tent, “Jungkook, I believe Yoongi was looking for you. He needs an assistant for today’s training session.”

Jungkook immediately perks up, nodding in excitement, “Yes hyung.” He pivots towards his cot to collect his armor but turns around once more to glance at Rachel, “Nice meeting you.”

“You too.” She practically squeaks, raising a hand in farewell.

Jungkook’s teeth peek out as he grins before he grabs his armor and practically sprints out of the tent.

Seokjin chuckles warmly and shakes his head before gesturing to the wooden table towards the back of the tent, “You are welcome to have a seat here, this should only take a moment.”

You each take your places at the table, illuminated by the lantern hanging above you.

Seokjin rounds the corner to sit across from you, his prince-like features tightening with a bit seriousness.

“As I said- this will be quick.” He assures you, licking his lips and lowering his voice a bit, “I was speaking with Yoongi earlier today and, he mentioned something that made me quite curious. He relayed a bit of your conversation with him-” He looks at you, “-he said that you told him that raiders were a common occurrence in your region, is that correct?”

You take his lead and lower your voice as well, glancing at Rachel before answering, “Yes. The number of raids has been increasing recently over the last few months actually.”

“I see. Do you have any idea as to why that may be?”

“I mean- our village is known for negotiating with raider clans.” You offer,” Our leaders feel as though it prevents violence.”

His brows quirk, hands clasping on the top of the table, “Has that method been effective so far?”

You look to Rachel for her insight and she tilts her head, considering the question, before she nods in approval which causes you to follow suit.

“I guess so. We have a specific strategy but, we are equipped with defenses as well.”  

Seokjin nods, his brows knitting together in thought. His plush lips part for a moment as he contemplates his next response, uncertainty written all over his face.

“Have either of you noticed any similarities between the clans? Anything at all- clothing, weaponry, language?”  

Your immediate response is to shake your head.

When a raid is occurring, you don’t necessarily have time to observe your intruders; safety is the only thing on your mind.

Rachel however, has noticed a similarity.

“There is one thing I’ve started to notice actually-” She begins, “They all seem to have a similar strategy. When they arrive, they encircle the town first before working their way inwards. It takes them a very long time to reach the center of the village, which is where we wait for them. It’s very strange actually, the center plaza contains most of our valuables- it's almost as if they are trying to take over in a way. However, they always end up leaving after negotiations and, I’ve never seen the same faces twice.”

Now that she mentions it, you recall that similarity as well.  

They do deploy the same tactic but, you just assumed that it’s the most effective way to get the most out of their raid.

Perhaps that isn’t their only intention.

Your stomach shrinks at the thought as you try to push it out of your head.

Seokjin’s features twitch with a bit of unease but, he composes himself quickly and smiles.

“Thank you. I’ll pass that along to Yoongi and see what he thinks of it.” He takes a deep breath, “We really appreciate your cooperation. As I mentioned to you the other day, it’s not very often that we are able to communicate with civilians and it makes our job a lot easier if we have insight from people who actually live in the territories we try to protect.” He eyes you both with a bit of hesitation then, as if he’s contemplating something, “If you wouldn't mind spreading the word that we aren’t a group of vicious demi-gods that would be great. As fun as the legends are, they can be a hinderance to our work...”  

You and Rachel nod in understanding, chuckling lightly at his word usage as the three of you stand.

“I’ll pass along the information. Thank you for having us.” You smile, bowing your head.

Rachel follows suit and, subconsciously her eyes drift to Jungkook’s cot, something that doesn’t go unnoticed by Seokjin.

“We appreciate having you very much.” He smirks as his eyes flit to Rachel, “Both of you. I think you should come along with Y/N for future deliveries Rachel, I’m sure Jungkook would enjoy that.”

Comically, Rachel’s eyes widen a bit as she aggressively clears her throat, frantically looking away from Jungkook’s cot.

“What? Why would he? Wh-What do you mean?” She stutters which causes you to giggle fondly at your friend.

Taking her hand, you squeeze it gently and address Seokjin’s request, “Oh she’ll be back, don’t you worry.”

He chuckles and gestures to the door, “I look forward to it. I’ll walk you two out, I hope you have a good rest of your day.”

Rachel mutters something inaudible by your side, towing behind you reluctantly.

After your departure from the tent and a bit of friendly verbal sparring between you and Rachel, you separate to finish the remainder of your day.

That evening, you decide to go against your parent’s judgements and journey to the river once again.

As beautiful as it is in the daylight, the moon provides a rendition unlike any other. She casts her glow on the water like the mother of all spotlights, dancing across the surface with ease.  

The truth is, you often sneak out after your parent’s have fallen asleep to find solace in the atmosphere of there. It’s almost magical and you feel as though you can think clearly here.  

You always bring your wicker basket along as well so you can collect any herbs or ingredients you may need.

It’s a necessity to switch off between plants though and ensure that you aren’t depleting the rivers natural resources too much; a practice you are continuously getting better at.  

The river carries it’s usual orchestra of sounds along with a bit more whistling in the trees.

It’s mating season for the birds here and they are singing to one another in hopes of finding a lover.

You giggle to yourself and think of what the world would be like if humans implied a similar method of finding a partner.

“Should I be concerned that you’re out here alone, laughing to yourself?”

The voice instantly sends energy up your back and you whip your head around to find Yoongi standing a few yards behind you.

He looks a bit worn out, likely from all the work he’s been doing with the new recruits but, his beauty overwhelms you regardless.

The moonlight casts shadows on his face, his mouth pulled up in a smirk, his hair tied back once again into a ponytail.

He’s wearing a set of clean clothes, a white linen top with brown pants, his sword strapped loyally to his hip.

You imagine he never travels without it.

“Should I be concerned that you’re stalking me?” You retort trying to control the smile that crosses over your face.

He smirks, his hand coming up to rub behind his neck, “I’m not stalking you. I’m patrolling the perimeter, common military practice. You just so happen to be along the perimeter.”

“The perimeter is one the other side of the river, there is a path just through those trees over there-” You point to a group of trees to the left of you, “So technically, you’re not walking the ENTIRE perimeter.”

Yoongi smirks broadens enough for his teeth to peak out as he nods, impressed by your knowledge, “Fair enough.” He nods to the river behind you, “I like walking through here, it’s peaceful.”

You can’t help but return a smile of your own as you nod, “It is. I don’t blame you for taking a detour, even if it was to scare the lights out of me again.”

He chuckles, “Are you out here often?”

“Very.” You nod, “This place serves multiple purposes.”

“Oh does it? What purposes are those?”

“Well, I get most of my ingredients from the river or the surrounding forest so, it’s vital to my work and,” You gesture to the space around your head, “It’s the perfect location to contemplate my existence, the meaning of life, the secrets of the universe- you know, stuff like that.”

Yoongi’s expression grows very amused then, his tongue poking out between his lips before he laughs again, “Ah yes- that stuff. Has the river provided you with any answers?”

“Oh yeah- plenty but you know, the answers only lead to more questions. It’s a vicious cycle.” You quip, giggling a bit and feeling very comfortable in his presence.

There is magnetism between the two of you.

It’s something you’ve never felt before.

And deep down within your heart, you hope he feels it too.

He steps towards you subconsciously, glancing towards the moon and then back at you, “I know that cycle very well. Have you found anything worth sharing? My job doesn’t exactly allow me to indulge in philosophy very often, I’d welcome any of your insight.”

It’s perplexing that a famous General would care to know your thoughts regarding the best eateries in your village let alone, for him to care about your philosophy.

It’s incredibly odd.  

You've always been a fan of oddities though so, you don’t think as much of it as you should.

“You’d have to be a little more specific, I don’t think you’d want to sit here whilst I prattle on about the complexities of the universe.” You laugh

He bites his lip in contemplation, his gaze on you softening significantly, “I wouldn’t be so sure...” Yoongi murmurs and the way he looks at you sends your heart on a marathon, “But I see your point; what do you think of the war?”

Taking a deep breath, you attempt to compose yourself and your thoughts in order to accurately address his question.

“I understand it to a certain extent. Historically speaking, humans have consistently risen in opposition of one another for whatever reason. Peace seems impossible at times. With so many selfish people rising to power, it almost incentivizes that kind of behavior. It’s rewarded. Peace is only possible when you restrict the empowerment of those who act within their own self-interest. The cycle always continues though so, war is inevitable.” You speak softly, taking your eyes off of Yoongi for a moment to focus on your choice of words.  

His dark eyes seem to glimmer with fascination as he nods along to your response, the two of you shifting closer to one another.

Unintentionally, of course.

“How should we restrict the empowerment of those individuals?” He licks his lips as his eyes narrow in curiosity, “Do you think there is a way to do that?”

Chewing on your cheek, you consider his question before letting out a sigh, “The power would have to return to the masses. I think the idea that humanity needs finite leadership isn’t completely accurate. Snuffing out corruption is difficult though, especially since it’s already been let loose. I guess there isn’t a linear path but, I’d like to believe it’s possible.”

He smiles, “So would I. My profession wouldn’t really imply that though would it?”

Your hands play with the fabric of your dress to distract from how close the two of you are as you swallow back the instability of your breath.

“I think it does actually. You aren’t tasked with the corrupt objectives; your job is to defend against it.”  

A grimace comes over his face, “I still engage in violence.”

“You do.” You agree, your hands lowering to clasp in front of you, “There is a difference between you and your enemy though isn’t there?”

Yoongi is truly hanging on every word you say, eager to hear the soft twinkle of your voice, eager to understand your mind.

“There is.” He answers tightly, glancing down your hands, “Violence isn’t our objective.”

You notice his gaze on your hands and it causes you to look at his own; they look softer than you remember, which you hope you can take partial credit for.

Amused, you watch as he clasps and unclasps them unknowingly, his nerves starting to creep up inside his head.

“What is your objective?” You ask, smiling softly at him

He bites his bottom lip, nodding as he understands where you’re headed, “Defending the innocent.”

“In times of war, peace also requires an army...” You conclude, hoping to comfort him in some way.

He smiles again but, he doesn’t look up at you, his gaze transfixed upon your fingers, “You should consider becoming an advisor of some sort.”

Your head tilts, your heart rate going crazy in your chest but, your curiosity and it’s need to be sated override your need to be proper.

“Why do you keep looking at my hands?”

He still doesn’t look up but he does blush, nervous laughter emanating from his lips, “Because I want to hold them...”

At his confession, he looks up at you longing, his throat bobbing as he swallows and tries to discern your reaction.

Without thinking you unfurl your fingers and turn your palms so they are facing towards the sky, slightly embarrassed by the way that they shake.

“Then hold them.”

Yoongi’s eyes widen momentarily, shooting down at your upturned palms before he slowly, almost agonizingly places his own shaking hands atop yours.

Simultaneously, the two of you intertwine your fingers, feeling the erratic pulse of one another.

“It’s good to know that my heart isn't the only one that’s pounding.”

Nervously, you giggle and nod rapidly, “Definitely. I thought I was the only one...”

He chuckles in response, stepping towards you a little more so you can feel the heat coming off of his body.

The two of you stand there in silence, enjoying the feeling of one another and the simplicity of the act you’re performing.

Words fall short on your tongue because, you are truly in awe of the way you feel and, part of you worries that you’re actually dreaming.  

A shout nearby, coming from one of your fellow villagers rips the two of you out of your moment as Yoongi suddenly remembers why he came this way in the first place.  

He drops your hands and steps back, feeling slightly regretful that he let go of you so abruptly.

“I’m sorry.” He clears his throat, looking back towards the voice before gesturing to the forest, “I should go- my men will come looking for me if I’m gone too long.”

Quickly, you nod in understanding, stepping a few inches back, “Of course. Thank you for the talk- it was-”

“I’d like to come by the river more often while I’m here- if that’s alright with you.” He interrupts you, his voice a little shaky as he clears his throat again.

Knowingly, you grin, “I don’t own the river Yoongi...”

Your quip breaks the bit of tension between you and he chuckles, his hands adjusting his clothes unnecessarily.

“I’m aware, Ms. Apothecary. I was just implying that-”

You interrupt him now with a smirk rushing to your lips, “You were implying that we should cross paths again.”

Yoongi bites his lip, cheeks the color of summer roses, “Yes.”

“I think we should too.”

This makes him smile and for a moment, he looks like a young man, completely rid of any burdens.

It’s a good look.

“Are you ok to walk back on your own?”  

You want to tell him no but, the light from the main street is yards away and after that, your home is only 5 minutes by foot.

“Yes.” You nod to the forest behind him, “Are you ok to walk on your own?”

He rolls his eyes before chuckling, patting the sword at his hip, “I’ll manage.”

With one last parting smile, the two of you begin to go your separate ways.

Tonight, each of your minds would be filled thoughts of one another and if you were lucky, you’d cross each others path while you sleep.

One could only hope.

“Goodnight Y/N.”

“Goodnight General Min.”