#nonchristian christmas

[unproduciblesmackdown]

love the remark from joe about the christmas extravaganza wherein like thee main inspiration here is that it is essentially an actual christmas special that purports to be a christmas special which is about christmas specials, and his talking about like yeah the talk about commercialization(tm) of christmas and yet this is about such artifacts of [so there's Anything & there's capitalism:] but about the actual heart there & there's actually one here too, even while at no point do things pull back or become "serious" in the way that seriousness has to refer to a Tone of somberness sobriety drama & gravitas etc etc....illuminating when also only now do i know that much about the show as a whole and when also i'm not That familiar with christmas specials, though already certainly enough to like, generally Get It even without having seen the specific ones joe cites for example lol

thinking about like [there was never a Christmass held as an occasion of particular significance that didn't absorb preexisting nonchristian traditions, for instance, partying & treats] and [then a christmas carol revival and reinvention of more modern Cultural Significance, from the context of industrializing 19th century goings on & going like i don't know that the impoverishment & child labor seems great] and then like of course in a [see: that context] sense like you have Anything? in capitalism? of course like how to commodify things & fit anything that people can possibly do or desire or value into an act of consumerism, all the potential of life itself is contained in a way you can give this one company money. but at the same time here we are where just supposing there might be something "pure" of being associated with this system, you know, means what? that there, no i'm pushing through i'm making this post too lmao, that there isn't [insert Valued concept, like artistry, good intention, any genuine meaning to possibly be found] in a tv series, despite this not generally being considered the realm of High Art (which is, what, as a concept within what framework, with what examples and what reasoning) and yknow pick your true/valuable/high art, & how "pure" from any interactions w/commerce was that in its creation, or in it Now

smash cut to remembering a quote recently from someone's like first closest viewing of a Christmas(tm) happening, i think from a like roundtable article of people with varying opinions on the whole occasion from jewish currents magazine but don't quote me & i can't directly quote them but the person talking about how christmas despite all its hype seeming mostly a demanding time to perform this Event that would also invariably be a disappointment. and that had it occurring to me how like, also after the christmas carol cultural shift like the way traditions shifted / were shuffled around & absorbed & re/invented, like it wasn't really something so contained to The Home, it wasn't so centered around like whether it was amazing for small children (or there wasn't so much a concept that anything about being a small child was extra special or precious. for example the children yearn for the mines) but prior like, on The 25th what might happen is like outside homes, between Families, like the poor going out for alms, not exactly so familiar with mumming and wassailling and [it's the christmas chaos figure give it treats] as is somewhat present in halloween here modernly, hooray halloween lmao like yes Yes outside the house outside the family nighttime antics performing etc treats....anyways. also the christmas tree as like "ugh that germanic pagan ritual??" but then i think some royal xmas english or french had an xmas tree so it was like oh alright & adopted as "normal" now....but Anyways like even now reflecting like yeah lovely if Thee 25th is a genuinely nice time for people in the [nothing's open b/c why aren't you at home (or church)] nuclear family household time fr, as it's lovely if that's a generally nice context/situation/time for them in general, but it's like no the fun stuff is the more purportedly to de facto actually secular shit Outside the home & family & the 25th lmao, which is the shit that indeed seems more fun & hypey & then perhaps you encounter [actual 25th is demanding & stressful & perhaps overmuch, inevitably falling short of a pageant of perfection much less an ostensibly spontaneously genuine manifestation of perfection, etc]

certainly my own experience being like, church every week christian household so we did christmas & as a young kid it was indeed like ooh ahh i love the kind of mysterious special occasion that to me is like this chill Nighttime deal with the intriguing decorations & dim cozy Lights element like yeah love the depths of an xmas tree with the interspersed lights. then inevitably as per the nature of [you're stuck with your nuclear family in your family house, "ideally"] like the The 25th Day aspect which was never really the highlight vs the more general Xmas Zone was more an ordeal more dreaded thus eclipsing the other stuff. plus when it's like "ohh christmas can't be secular it also shouldn't even be Fun: go to church, stand around in somber wonder perhaps, the classic guilt if you want i dunno. trying to remember the annoying advent or christmas day homilies sermons Lectures like oh so you think this is a joyful time and you like the fun stuff? Wrong. not much of a conclusion beyond that now we sit around for 24 min slogging along eucharistically. ignore the more fun banger xmas singing though or we're bringing back monastic chants"

(sidebar lol a highlight of Later Christmasses Stuck With [it is a curse] was doing it monastic with nuns like yeah i'll be a tenor doing the harmony in your choir knocking out nighttime mass wahoooo....the fun of being theatrical gays like fuck yeah i'll take the reserved seating and enjoy harmonizing singing while i gotta do the church stuff anyways. and i enjoy well enough interacting w/the nuns who were nice & helping w/yknow practical shit yippee)

anyways and back to like knowing more about what's even in the full christmas extravaganza show and the illumination like oh right yeah having this Language of the heartwarming & perhaps chaotic on purpose or not Christmas Special, established / pervasive enough that even in like yeah not being very familiar w/these specific examples or even so many others, i have a grasp on the context & that language lol. as people for whom xmas is not a religious requirement thing or a casual religiousish thing or more like reverse engineering a yule out of the fun celebratory revelrous aspects & traditions lol like a secular party, or less / no direct specific interaction/relationship to the occasion: you sure still Know Of shit / have any familiarity all the same. where perhaps the stuff Surrounding xmas is like all this hype but then you participate more proximately in some [on The 25th deal] & be like isn't this just disappointing...? like so true the Secular shit is what's Fun, the [not the 25th! not dutiful church attendance!] shit is like, out of the home, interacting outside the family. it of course has the [formally businesses can only respond like uhh something something christmas is truly contained in our product] which is year round always with anything but ramped up with the [buying things] increase for xmas which is indeed a Tradition of like hey this can be expensive & stressful. and an opportunity to go "materialism....go to church" like making you think huh But. hardly necessarily Lacking anything genuine or meaningful or valuable outside [go to church] and people can be finding & creating that from what is happening in their lives anyways, & of course it doesn't have to be about Anything someone considers like ""objectively"" "significant" at all, religious or [this is anything besides a funny little occasion anyways. love to sing songs & have feasts] or like an installment of tv or like a whirlwind of like 20th century's second act secular (and decidedly heretical & technically blasphemous i'm sure combo re: the "and christianity etc etc yeah yeah" elements, if one would care about anything like that. no papal bull of approval, but ft. the tongue in cheek acknowledgment of the whole element like "it's fine to celebrate Other holidays of course. but you Gotta celebrate christmas with meeee.mp3") (separate note but shoutout to the "it's Not fine to celebrate other holidays ugh!" faction who don't Really want the idea of "we'll just be over here having a joyous occasion while you have to sit it out, unhappily unbaptized" to result in universal conversion, they just want Being Christian to confer authority, hey no you Can't be also having fun having food celebrating observing etc etc >:( and i certainly Can't be Forced at p.c. gunpoint to acknowledge Your goings on exist like You absolutely should have to Mine)

anyways it's like hell yeah fun to muse on like yeah the flipside of [strangling diminishing forces always trying to find new ways to encroach & be like how can this benefit me. like capitalism e.g.] being the creative expansive enriching forces like many people who care about the world they are in and about what actually makes life better and less strangled and diminished, which also will spontaneously find ways to grow and can't be truly extinguished or contained by the inherent stifling & limiting & extracting approach. like oh yeah of course like not just the secular out of the house outside the family shit that can be fun fr but now also the modern media, after [nothing to me b/c xmas soured & then was not much relevant & yeah i'm not exactly dying to "replace" the The 25th aspect anyways even if i supposed there was some opportunity right there but it's not much relevant] like ooh yeah fuck the joe iconis christmas extravaganza huh lmao i hear that i get that. krampusnacht's beautiful reinvention (even though afaik currently krampusnacht is also mostly about out of the house out of the family partying & antics like a lil scamp. to me it's about fucking the krampus now, alternatively, beautifully) i love it i am enthused it is a light in my heart & i'm not unserious about that, the way i could even go [!!!] just over what could be found in traces online for extravaganzas of yore back in dec 2022 when one was not currently going on. like oh yeah lol i could be on a sidewalk and go like "it's (ah) be (ah)" with corresponding choreography & the implied [—ginning to look a lot. like. chris. miss] i love strings of lights i recall the joy to the world harmony years later the nutcracker slaps always i have the media i Have encountered & do enjoy etc etc etc. and shoutout to the haters and the people who do go to church about it even possibly

[minttey]

Just saw a debate saying nonchristians shouldnt celebrate christmas like we are gatekeeping holidays now???

[addamsjuice]

it’s so funny how christians just invented the idea that nonchristians hate christmas when most of us actually really enjoy christmas things

[intern-seraph]

secularism is a christian concept that does not work with any nonchristian religion/faith/culture and is in fact an excuse for christians to take fundamentally christian things like christmas (shut the FUCK up about ~stealing from paganism~ i do not care, it is a CHRISTIAN holiday you fucks and i will put my jewy little fingers around your throat if you bring that up. it is incredibly common and in fact normal for cultures to "borrow"/absorb practices from their neighbors as they grow closer and eventually combine. look up "syncretism" and then proceed to, again, shut the fuck up.) and file off the numbers in order to impose them on other cultures with the excuse of it being ~nonreligious~. because they said it is! this then alienates nonchristians whose factual arguments about these BEING CHRISTIAN THINGS are then responded to with shit like "well it's not ~christian~ anymore, everyone does it! i have never heard about assimilation nor do i understand the effects of aggressive proselytizing".

and i'm gonna really need culturally christian a(nti)theists to listen up: for most nonchristian cultures and belief systems, you cannot simply separate religion from your life. they are inextricably connected. rather than try to abolish religion (which is an extremely colonialist and genocidal belief system BECAUSE of the link between religion and culture; in order to abolish religion you would need to exterminate many cultures altogether. fuckers.) because you have gripes with christianity in specific, maybe try and consider that christianity is the problem here instead of religion as a whole. maybe show a little intellectual curiosity about cultures that aren't christian.

[cheerfullycatholic]

The other post I reblogged about nonchristians disrespecting Christmas made me remember this one from last year. Let's try again this Christmas!!! It'll be fun!!!!! I gotta look for birthday cake ideas on Pinterest!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My birthday thoughts yesterday were about Christmas and how wild it is that Jesus gets removed from his own birthday all the time. Like imagine if it was your birthday and everyone was celebrating it and throwing their own parties, but you weren't invited despite your name being on the cake. Then you see everyone wishing each other a happy birthday and giving each other gifts and all you get is people ignoring you and some even saying that you don't exist. That would hurt a lot, man. We gotta try to make this Christmas one of the best birthdays he's ever had!

[lindajenni]

sep 12

have you lost your expectancy

"gather My saints together to Me, those who have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice." psa 50:5

sunday i was watching a preacher that i like and follow. he repeatedly and pointedly made the statement, "if we're still here" about the coming days. he is not a pastor given to wild extremes and fanciful notions, but a dear man who loves the Lord with all his heart and honestly sees a possibility that this could be the year of God's appointed time.

i also recently heard a story about an young, exuberant christian who asked a retiring religion professor when he believed Jesus was coming. the profession replied, "it doesn't matter to me anymore. soon i will retire, go to my home and resume living out my life. let Him come whenever He wants." he had lost his expectancy.

is there danger in that? can we just live our lives as if it doesn't really matter and what might be the effect of such a thing? the apostle peter spoke of such people in his writings and i believe it foretold of both christian and nonchristian behavior. "where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." 2 pet 3:4

how does the preacher differ from the professor; the one full of expectancy and the other just living as though if it happens, it happens. "therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." rev 3:3 what does that scripture indicate the cost might be of such an attitude?

i have heard it said that while we are now living in the age of grace, with salvation being free - tribulation saints must receive their salvation through works, spending all for salvation. if true, i don't fully understand the scripture, "that no flesh should glory in His presence." 1 cor 1:29 whatever the case may be, i know it will cost the tribulation saints dearly.

until the appointed time does arrive, i must - we all must expectantly look for our blessed hope and listen for that trumpet call. it's a strange thing about those heavenly summons. only those who were meant to hear could distinguish the sound. the rest simply heard a thunder or an indistinct noise.

has the length of time between His first and second coming caused some to slumber and their ears to become dull of hearing? can we really look at all the obvious signs in the earth and the heavens and really say, "all things continue as they were from the beginning?"

already i can hear so many saying, "rapture, rapture - all of you guys are rapture crazy. that's all you talk about." i tell you this. i had rather have a thousand "disappointments" than miss the real event. do you think God is angry that our hearts are eagerly watching, longing and waiting for His arrival?

is a parent angry at an expectant child at christmas or do they take joy in the child's excitement? we are like that child, anxiously awaiting and afire to see what the Lord God has prepared for us. and none of us will apologize for longing to begin our life with Him.

i know i am longing. being housebound, i see a human being for less than twenty minutes a day. the rest of the time must be spent in solitude with my thoughts and my Lord, even correspondence being rarely received. i watch some programs to "keep up" but the simple enjoyment of a television show has been taken from me as well. so much is unacceptable to watch and the Holy Spirit navigates me to where He would lead. getting old isn't for sissies i have heard.

"for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 15:53 our bodies - especially my body - eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. eagerly awaits death to be swallowed up by life. eagerly waits to see, hear and know, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 1 cor 2:9

according to schedule there still remains a millennium (a thousand year period) to fulfill the seven day plan of God's dealings with this world, and we will get to live through all of it. just think, a thousand years of doing it God's way and not man's, remaining for us to know.

just before that, God's wrath must be poured out on the unbeliever. known as the time of jacob's trouble, it will trouble the whole world. they shall know the darkness they have loved more than light. but believers, He will hide us in His pavilion; in the secret place of His tabernacle. "God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 thess 5:9 that is our blessed hope.

yes, i do believe and expectantly hope our rapture is imminent and set to fulfill an appointed feast day. i have said before to watch the month of september closely, but also my watch will extend into the middle of next month if it be required. the month, day and hour are open to various possibilities but the season is screaming, "harvest time is near." "and then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven." mark 13:27 maranatha!

[impatientpacifist13]

going to school in a suburban-progressive midwest area is going on an easter egg hunt during homeroom except the eggs are called "scavenger hunt items" to be Inclusive. they do not bother to give nonchristians time off outside winter break for their own holidays

[mzminola]

Everyone is going to have different feelings and opinions about stuff, so while I get the people on the post about christmas-normativity checking “does x decoration count? does x activity? i want to be inclusive / not rude” mean well (I appreciate the sentiment) you’re not gonna get a consensus, and what strangers on the internet feel could be very different from the people in your life.

So I’d say it’s more... do what you like in your own home, and invite your friends to what you want. If they turn you down, don’t press. If you want to decorate in ways they’ll enjoy / feel included by, ask them, not the internet.

For non-home things, take a moment to ask yourself if YOU associate it with the holiday. If an evergreen tree brought indoors and decorated is something you associate with Christmas, why does it matter what the origins are? Putting it up in your restaurant means you’ve decorated for Christmas. If you want to do that, it’s your choice, just don’t try to claim that’s not what you’re doing.

And if you’re not celebrating Christmas but you are celebrating Yule or other pagan holidays, and you associate the indoor decorated evergreens with that holiday... then, well, congrats, it’s part of that holiday for you, and telling people outside your religion/culture that they ought to accept your decorations (but not their own) in public spaces is also rude.

It’s the “have to actively engage with yours” that’s flat out rude, and the “cannot put up their own too because of some arbitrary divide” that’s also rude because of the unfairness.

Are you using tax money for one specific religion’s holiday, no matter how normalized (people claiming it’s secular now), but not for other religions’ holidays? Then uh... that’s uncool.

If employees are putting up their own decorations and you police what’s allowed based on religiosity rather than rest-of-the-year workplace appropriateness (no naked dicks on the cherubs, etc) than you’re being a jerk.

If you do allow multiple religions/cultures’ decorations but only when the timing lines up with your own, then you’re also being a jerk. A small menorah atop the cubicle wall is fine in December, but a honey-and-apples banner during September is not? Why not?

And also... take a moment to think of something that squicks you or reminds you of a bad memory. Something that’s not around all the time. If you walk into a store or your workplace or your school, and suddenly that thing is everywhere, and your coworkers / employers / classmates / teachers keep pressuring you to participate in the uncomfortable, possibly distressing thing too...

Maybe being told that it’s not Upsetting Thing but really Random Thing isn’t going to help.

[vikhelian]

May Déa bring you low dysphoric days and all the strength you need

[spongebob-connoisseur]

Christmas who is such a relatable episode since I too haven't a clue what Christmas is. As a child all I knew is a jolly white guy breaks into your house and gives your presents and like SB you're enthusiastic about blind consumerism and fun colors.

[equalseleventhirds]

oh no my coworkers are saying it's time to start christmas music

[monstroushellbride]

“but christmas is such a secular, capitalist holiday!” it isn’t. it literally fucking isn’t. stop expecting your jewish friends to celebrate christmas and make them a fucking hanukkah card like the rest of us who know how to act.

[darkvveb]

we need more christmas songs for people that dont celebrate christmas

[mongreldyke]

in the trend of nonchristians getting ready for christmas season bullshit, local hindu here to say it's been over a month since diwali. if you wish me happy diwali i will deck you in the face

[cocoacauldron]

Secular Xmas - Christmas All The Time!

[borderlinehannibal]

Christmas is not a pagan holiday, some things we use to celebrate it can be traced back to pagan communities.

Christmas is not a secular holiday, its just been so engrained in the public zeitgeist and associated with not christian things that nonreligious people can pick and choose what they want to celebrate from it.

Christmas is a christian holiday and its fine and reasonable for people of different religions or who have trauma around christian imagery/experiences dont want to fucking celebrate it. Insisting that christmas is nonchristian only puts pressure on these people to celebrate either way and cements Christmas as the be all end all of winter holidays.