#non duggar non bates

[jedidiahjunior]

Joy’s sister q&a

So joy had Jennifer, Johanna, Josie, Jana and jordyn over to hang out and do a q&a of generic questions, nothing too salacious.

What about your family are you thankful for?

Joy: how non-confrontational they all are, how they can still hangout even after an agreement (my note: ?????)

What’s something you’ve always wanted to do?

Johanna: wants to learn building stuff like a deck, construction. Also Spanish

Which television family describes your family?

Jennifer: the Bates, joy thinks she should be allowed to say the Duggar family 😅

Who is the most likely to cry over dog commercials?

All: Josie

Who is the least likely to get embarrassed in public?

Jana: joy, maybe Jennifer

What cheers you up when you’ve had a bad day?

Joy: food! Coffee especially

Favorite holiday related memory:

Johanna: making the Easter crafts and cookies

One word to describe the family:

Jennifer: unique (my note: that’s definitely the kindest way to say “99.99999% of the world would NEVER EVER live like us on account of the obvious)

Favorite place you’ve lived?

Jana: the old house, where they lived when Jana was little on account of all the good memories (my note: insane thing to say given what he who shall not be named did there but nostalgia does funny things to a girl)

Best gift ever received?

Jordyn: salvation (my note: 🙄), the American girl dolls she had as a girl (here Josie goes on a tangent about how Tyler tore the head of a doll she was given as a child and Oh Boy do I wish joy had edited that out, especially as Tyler isn’t in jb&ms custody anymore)

Most likely to give good advice?

All: Jana, also joy (my note: of course the 30+ sistermom of 15 gives getter advice than her teenage sisters lmao) Jana will apparently tell it how it is even if it would hurt the person in the moment

Favorite family activity?

Johanna: volleyball, capture the flag. Anything with all of them outside in the summer

A deep passion?

Jennifer: caring for animals

Favorite trip?

Josie: the two month road trip out west (Arkansas to Iowa to Washington to California to Texas to Arkansas again. Not being on tv sure clears up time I guess) also Connecticut

How do you show support to family members?

Jana: babysitting, helping with practical projects (even when not asked)

Talent people don’t know Jordyn has:

Cooking and baking

Current passions/things to learn:

Joy: has recently started baking (only did it once with jinger for the show before)

Josie: what’s to take jumping lessons with her pony

Jennifer: wants to get mini cows (my note: there are mini cows????!?!?? 😍)

Jordyn: wants to improve her volleyball game

Johanna: wants to learn more building and repairing

Jana: learn more medical stuff, whatever that means and also cooking

And then at the end joy gets evy to say the outro spiel which I just…. Think is kind of icky, like family vlogging in general.

[spurgie-cousin]

Are you a former fundie kid? Some of your insight and comments seems sooo close to what life growing up fundie feels like.

I use the term fundie-lite for my upbringing usually, but it was such a weird situation that I don't think that term's completely accurate, honestly lol. We were members of the biggest church in a small farming town, and it called itself non-denominational but had a very obvious fundamentalist bent to anyone paying attention, so it attracted all types of conservative Christians who just couldn't find a church they matched up with otherwise. Some were very like, early Duggar vibes, others physically appeared very mainstream but still agreed with the conservative messaging, and another dwindling group were multi-generational church members who just came because they always had like my family (I say dwindling because many left as the church got progressively more bigoted over my lifetime). A lot of the conservative homeschool families liked the fact that our church was big enough to give their kids some social life and structure, like weekly youth groups, a (very censored) library, Bible study programs, etc.

My mom, who has gone through a bit of deconstruction herself, has told me that it was a switch of the head pastor that began the transition to ultra conservative, and it happened so slowly at first that she didn't even realize what was happening. So, while I was lucky that my parents maintained their moderation in some ways (I was one of the only kids in Sunday school that got to read Harry Potter for example) there were some fundamentalist values they adopted over time and started enforcing as they were exposed to it.

So yea tldr: I wouldn't consider my upbringing fundamentalist in the same way that like, the Duggars, Bates, Rodrigues kids were raised, but i was surrounded by and steeped in fundamentalism enough that it really affected my life and beliefs.

[thefundiedata]

Upcoming Events - Bates and Duggars

Completely non-sims related. But I've been plugging the data we've got into my spreadsheet for the Bates and Duggars to see what else we might expect for 2023 and 2024 as I missed the incredible next 6 months DuggarData used to do for us. My data is nowhere near that complex or well sorted but fingers crossed it might scratch an itch!

Who's Late and What For?

Justin and Claire are late for baby 1. The Bates/Duggar average for first child is 352 days after marriage. This would have meant a due date of 13th February 2022.

Jinger and Jeremy are late for baby 3. The spreadsheet had her down for a baby on 13th March 2023. On Jinger's press tour, she said she was happy with her two girls and didn't see a problem with preventing pregnancy.

Lawson and Tiffany are late for baby 1. This was predicted for 29th April 2023.

Jana is (unsurprisingly) late for courtship. My data has her initial courtship down for 29th May 2011. It now has her down for +5 SD - 1st March 2025.

Jason is also late for courtship. He was predicted to enter into a pre-courtship on 22nd June 2022 and a courtship 12th November 2022. This has been moved to 2026 (+1 SD).

So... What's Happening in 2023?

We have two more 2023 babies we know of. Ryker Cruise and William Gage. Ryker is due 26th September 2023. Due to Erin's health conditions, it is likely William will be born early and my spreadsheet is expecting him 7th November 2023.

There is also one 2023 wedding on the cards. Jackson and Emerson are due to wed 14th October 2023.

There are only two 2023 prediction left in my spreadsheet. Jessa and Ben are due for baby 5 on the 17th November 2023. We'll see, there's been no announcement yet.

James is due to start a pre-courtship 7th September 2023 for a courtship on the 28th January 2024.

And What About 2024?

We already know of one 2024 baby - Josie B's third. (Predictor birth date is 19th February 2024) - this baby was late, spreadsheet was expecting baby 3 on the 28th January 2023. Josie has stated she used birth control.

The spreadsheet also expects the following babies:

Joe and Kendra #5 - 21st January 2024

Tori and Bobby #5 - 27th January 2024

Jeremiah and Hannah #2 - 9th August 2024

Jedidiah and Katey #3 - 29th August 2024

Jackson and Emerson #1 - 30th September 2024

Carlin and Evan #3 - 23rd October 2024

Nathan and Esther #2 - 5th December 2024

Katie and Travis aren't predicted until 2025 (25th April) but if I had to pick a non-predicted baby, it would be for these two.

Overall...

So, by the end of 2024 the predictor expects 6 more Grand-duggars for a total of 37. It expects 8 more Grand-bates for a total of 33.

There are a few more potential courtships when we look at family members beginning a pre-courtship 1 SD early - notably Warden (September 2023) and Addallee (April 2024) Bates, as well as Johannah Duggar (December 2023). All of these are due 2025 or later if they stay completely Bates / Duggar average. (Let's avoid more teen brides!)

[duggardata]

How Many Children Will Each Couple Have?

ESOQ...  Now According to Predictor 2020.

I’m so excited to do the Estimated Size of Quiver (ESOQ) with Predictor 2020...  Finally!  Y’all have been requesting an ESOQ Update a lot, but I’ve been putting it off, because I wanted to finish the New Predictor first.  Now, it’s done.  So, by request, here’s each couple’s ESOQ per Predictor 2020, as of March 13, 2020—

(Link to the Previous ESOQ Update, for those who want to compare.  Below, I’ll also note the shift in ESOQ, vs. the Previous ESOQ.  Note that Predictor 2020′s algorithm contains several significant changes / improvements, so any massive changes are likely attributable to those changes.  A Post explaining all of these changes and new features is forthcoming.)

The Duggars—

Josh + Anna   11 Children  (–1 Child vs. Previous ESOQ)

Jana   6 Children  (–1)

John + Abbie   7 Children  (–1)

Jill + Derick   8 Children  (–2)

Jessa + Ben   12 Children  (–1)

Jinger + Jeremy   7 Children  (–4)

Joe + Kendra   15 Children  (–4)

Josiah + Lauren   13 Children  (–3)

Joy + Austin   15 Children

Younger Males   10 Children Each  (–2)

Younger Females   12 Children Each  (–2)

Predictor 2020 expects Jim Bob + Michelle to have 202 Grandchildren, in the end.  As of March 14, 2020, 17 of 202 (or 8.4%) have already arrived.  Jim Bob + Michelle have 19 Children, so that’s an average of 10.6 Children Per Couple.

 The Bateses—

Zach + Whitney   10 Children  (No Change)

Michaela + Brandon   4 Children

Erin + Chad   15 Children  (+1)

Lawson   8 Children  (–3)

Nathan   9 Children  (–3)

Alyssa + John   15 Children  (–3)

Tori + Bobby   17 Children  (No Change)

Trace   11 Children  (–3)

Carlin + Evan   21 Children  (No Change...  Yikes.)

Josie + Kelton   20 Children  (–2)

Katie + Travis   15 Children

Younger Males   12 Children Each  (–2)

Younger Females   15 Children Each  (–4)

As for the Bateses...  Predictor 2020 expects Gil + Kelly Jo to ultimately have a very impressive 250 Grandchildren (!), of which 14 (5.6%) are born or in–utero.  With 19 Children in the Bates Family, that’s about 13.2 Children Per Couple.  

The Maxwells—

Nathan + Melanie   7 Children  (Quiver Complete!)

Chris + Anna Marie   10 Children

Sarah   0 Children

Joseph + Elissa   8 Children

John + Chelsy   9 Children

Anna Elizabeth   7 Children

Jesse   8 Children

Mary   9 Children

A more modest 58 Grandchildren is expected for Steve + Teri Maxwell.  Out of 58, 18 (31.0%) have already arrived or are in–utero.  The Maxwell Clan consists of 8 Children, so that’s a rate of 7.25 Children Per Couple, or 8.3 Children Per Couple, if we exclude Sarah.  (Note that 38 Year Old Sarah’s ESOQ is 0.  She’s actually not expected to court or marry, since she’s now so late to do so...  The New Predictor has a feature which decides, at a specified point (Overdue by 5+ SDs and 5+ Years), that ‘late’ events probably won’t ever occur.  Nifty!)

The Kellers—

Esther + John   14 Children

Priscilla + David   10 Children

Anna + Josh   11 Children

Nathan + Nurie   11 Children  (Assuming 7–3–20 Wedding)

For the Kellers, Duggar Data will track only the quiverfull couples—i.e., Esther + John, Priscilla + David, Anna + John, and Nathan + Nurie.  Given the number of his siblings who have left the quiverfull faith, I won’t assume that David Keller—the youngest Keller son—will be quiverfull.  Whenever Duggar Data talks about the Kellers, I’ll be talking only about the quiverfull couples...  So, the grandchild totals don’t include the children (born or yet to be born) for the others.

Anyway...  Mike + Suzette can expect 46 Grandchildren (from Quiverfull Sons / Daughters), per Predictor 2020.  As of March 2020, 23 of 46 (50%) have been born, or are in–utero.  With 4 Known Quiverfull Couples, the Kellers’ typical rate is 11.5 Children Per Couple.

The Bontragers—

Chelsey + John   9 Children

Mitchell + Bryn   6 Children

Allison   7 Children

Carson + Carolina   8 Children

Joshua + Cassidy   10 Children

Younger Males   10 Each

Younger Females   10 Each

Per Predictor 2020 on March 14, 2020, Marlin + Becky can expected a total of 90 Grandchildren, of which 6 (6.7%) are born (4) or in–utero (2).  This is a rate of 9 Children Per Couple, across the Bontragers’ 10 Children.

Miscellaneous—

Sierra + Mark   13 Children  (Duggar Adjacent)

Kristen + Justin   9 Children  (Duggar Adjacent)

Bethany + Dav   5 Children  (Girl Defined)

One of the best things about Predictor 2020 is it’s ability to very easily expand, adding new couples or families.  For one–off couples, their own, personal data is used whenever possible; when personal data isn’t available, predictions will be based on averages taken from all other Predictor Couples.

TL;DR—

According to Predictor 2020 on March 14, 2020, the 10 Most Prolific Couples will be—

#10—Sierra + Mark Dominguez   13 Children

#9—Esther (Keller) + John Shrader   14 Children

(Tie)—Erin (Bates) + Chad Paine   15 Children

(Tie)—Alyssa (Bates) + John Webster   15 Children

(Tie)—Joe + Kendra (Caldwell) Duggar   15 Children

(Tie)—Joy (Duggar) + Austin Forsyth   15 Children

(Tie)—Katie Bates + Travis Clark   15 Children

#3—Tori (Bates) + Bobby Smith   17 Children

#2—Josie (Bates) + Kelton Balka   20 Children

#1—Carlin (Bates) + Evan Stewart   21 Children

Interesting stuff!

[fundiebabynamebible]

Why do I feel like this is something fundies would do?

[fundie-confessions]

NAC: do we know about the phobias of the family? I’m curious

Which family? If you’re talking about legitimate fears I have no idea. Only phobias I know about are their homophobia and transphobia.-R

[keepingupwithfundies]

Do you think fundies generally are pro COVID vaccine? Have any been posting their selfies on social media to encourage their followers?

TL;DR: No and No.

I haven't seen any of the TV fundies (Duggars and Bates family members) talk about Covid vaccines on Instagram. But honestly, there's always a chance I missed an Instagram story. In general, my guess is that none of the TV fundies have received it. The possible exception here are the Dillards* (although even there I would say it's unlikely). Jill & Derick have indicated that they vaccinate their kids and suggested that fundies generally receive required vaccines for international travel. That might mean eventually we see fundies receive it if required for travel. At this point, though, I doubt they have.

Now fundies I would call instagram fundies have been fairly vocal about being anti-vaccine. I'm talking here about fundies who aren't on TV but with social media accounts, like Karissa Collins or Analiese Feminine Not Feminist. But I think the TV fundies have to be more cautious- it's like how the Bates keep talking about being careful with Covid on their show, but we saw them taking non-essential trips and going without masks in public even after Erin suffered serious complications from Covid. So, yeah, I'm not optimistic here.

-T

[totallyrobophobic]

In regards to the Anon that reached out to you about the racist activies in the world. Actually Katie Bates boyfriend family actually comment about it and posted BLM on their IG stories. Also it could be that Travis brother is dating a girl who is mixed (black and white). It might not be the Duggars or Bates but it gives me hope if Katie takes the steps towards marriage with Travis.

I’m glad to hear that the Clarks are supporting blm but dating someone non-white does NOT mean you aren’t racist yourself. Kelly Jo has black adopted sisters but loves the Confederacy.

[countingandsnarkingon]

Your last post about not wanting to share a birthday with a Duggar or Bates is so me. I hope it doesn't happen on yours birthday and mine to which is the 17th. =)

I mean I share birthday/birthrate (8-11-98) with one of my favorite Duggar in laws but, I'd love to share a birthday with a grandkid and its also time for a non-twin double birthday in that family.

[undercoverduggarblog]

if the Duggars/Bates make a post about injustice they’ll turn it into some “god has all the answers let’s be more like jesus” post then after they hit “send” they’ll turn to their spouse and bitch about liberals/Obama/feminists/any non-Christian.

and in response to the riots just say something like “you can’t fight hate with hate! jesus come back soon!” so everyone else who doesn’t embrace their brand of christianity can be left to rot

[spurgie-cousin]

ok here are some ideas for Saturday's live, but if you have other ideas feel free to let me know! Duggar weddings are still a no-go for the most part unless you know a place to watch them besides Google Play/Video which I can only access on my phone/laptop. or unless you want to watch the no commentary, non-TLC ceremony videos they have posted on youtube:

[bae-tes]

Hello world!

Hi, so I’m Em and I have been lurking here for... 2 years now? I first got into mega families when I watched the first Radford special over here in the UK, way back in 2012 (seriously... 7 years of my life wasted) and from there I found the Duggars and then the Bates and then the Rodriguez... and everything kinda went from there.

I’m a primary teacher so the children’s (lack of) education is one of my biggest things. Also non-religious, non-patriotic and an only child so this is about as far out of my comfort zone as I could go, but I’m obsessed anyway!

Decided in this new season of birthing, I should probably just make an account. So hello there!

[duggardata]

You now "follow" more families, will it continue post-pandemic?

I don’t know.  I’ll try!  Data for the Maxwells, Bontragers, Kellers, Rodriguii, and Rogerses is now permanently in my spreadsheet, so keeping up with them will be a bit easier now that I’ve put in that work.  We’ll see!

[fundiebabynamebible]

The Duggar/Bates 2020 Timeline

January

7th - John and Abbie Duggar welcome their first child, Grace Annette

31st - Carlin and Evan Stewart welcome their first child, Layla Rae

February

22nd - Jill and Derick Dillard announce their eldest son, Israel, will be attending public school for Kindergarten. 

March 

10th - Katie Bates announces she is courting Travis Clark

18th - Joy and Austin Forsyth announce they’re expecting their second child following a miscarriage at 20 weeks gestation in June 2019. The baby is a girl and due in August 2020.

25th - Tori and Bobby Smith welcome their second child, Kolter Gray

April

Nothing

May

28th - Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo announce they’re expecting their second child following a miscarriage in November 2019. The baby is a girl and due in November 2020.

June

6th - Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo announce they’re starting a podcast

30th - Jason Duggar joins Instagram

July

Nothing

August

6th - John and Alyssa Webster announce they’re expecting their fourth child, due on 17th February 2021.

16th - Carlin and Evan Stewart reveal they are recovering from Covid-19

19th - Joe and Kendra Duggar announce they’re expecting their third child, due in February 2021

21st - Joy and Austin Forsyth welcome their baby girl

24th - Israel Dillard starts Kindergarten. He is the first child in the Duggar family to attend public school in over 30 years.

27th - Joy Forsyth announces her daughter’s name is Evelyn Mae

September 

9th - Josie and Kelton Balka announce they have suffered a miscarriage

12th - John and Alyssa Webster reveal their fourth child is a girl.

18th -  John and Alyssa Webster reveal their fourth child will be named Maci Jo.

21st - After months of speculation, Justin Duggar announces he is courting Claire Spivey.

30th - Jill and Derick Dillard reveal they’re using non-hormonal birth control. 

October

Nothing

November 

4th - Jed Duggar loses to Megan Godfrey in the election and fails to become the Arkansas State Representative for District 89

6th - James Duggar joins Instagram

13th - Christina and Paul Caldwell (Kendra Duggar’s parents) announce they’re expecting their ninth child

16th - Justin Duggar and Claire Spivey announce they’re engaged

22nd - Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo welcome their second child, Evangeline Jo

24th - Zach and Whitney Bates announce they’re expecting their fourth child, due in June 2021. Whitney caught Covid-19 whilst she was in the early stage of pregnancy but is being closely monitored by her doctor.

30th - Joe and Kendra Duggar announce their third child, due in February 2021, is a girl.

December

Nothing

[fundie-confessions]

NAC: serious question- say if (god forbid) one of the girls had a REALLY bad labour and went to hospital and they had to have a c section and there was only a male doctor/ consultant who could do it. Would they allow a male doctor.... down there?

Well the Bates do have a male doctor IIRC. The Duggars might make extremely poor decisions but I highly doubt any of them are stupid enough to refuse intervention and die. A female doctor in their eyes goes against everything they think about what a woman’s role is. Wouldn’t surprise me if they thought the female doctor was less competent. Also, there’s literally nothing remotely “sexy” about c-sections so if they think all male doctors are pervs, that’s on them.-R

[keepingupwithfundies]

This was the first non church duggar wedding??

It was! It wasn’t the first non church wedding between the big two fundie families (Josie Bates gets that prize, and Carlin comes in second. Justin & Claire get the bronze medal). I wonder if this was a Covid decision to be outside or just an aesthetic preference. 

-T 

[I intentionally excluded Zach & Whitney’s vow renewal, which was outside, since their OG wedding was in a church.]