#neverafter radicalism

[werewolfpdfs]

still normal about them

[utilitycaster]

Firstly, that was a great write up about D20, thank you for taking the time to write it.

Secondly, before Burrows End premiered, Aabria mentioned she picked D&D for Burrows End for a reason.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about various TTRPG systems but you seem to be, so I thought I'd ask you. Would you say D&D was the right system for this season? Or do you think it took away from the story they were trying to tell?

Hi anon, thank you! I am, to be honest, only a dabbler in systems outside of D&D but honestly I feel D&D was fine. I know that with TTRPG systems, the system does to an extent dictate the story, but I don't think that's the problem here - though I do think it might be the problem in Neverafter, which might have gone better in a system designed for horror.

If you were to ask me how I'd "fix" Burrow's End, honestly, what I would do is retain the basic structure of a stoat family displaced by human intervention and I'd keep the concept of Last Bast as a First Stoat-run police state in an exclusion zone nuclear reactor. I would nix the concept of Phoebe entirely and I'd be vaguer about the timeline such that the humans could simply be reasonably returning after however much time is wise to wait, and I'd make this a story strictly about how an external enemy/threat (even one that is only distantly perceived rather than viscerally realized) can radicalize a society into the fascist state we saw. I'd make the First Stoats the final big-bad, expand upon the world more, and limit the radiation to a comics-esque "yes, it made the first stoats live longer and be more powerful" situtation, perhaps with them controlling access to the (well-contained) source of radiation and therefore power rather than the whole secret history of them attacking Dr. Wenabocker.

In short, I'd make it Rats of NIMH/Watership Down meets 1984 with radiation as the resource; rather than Rats of Nimh/Watership Down meets the goofiest of Golden Age Superman meets Generic Police State Vibes meets only the apocryphal bridge of death scene from HBO Chernobyl meets Chariots of Fire meets Bunnicula. Which you could still run quite well in D&D, because D&D is a game that understands the concept of power structures and advancement therein. I don't think the system was the issue here (and honestly, part of why I'm so disappointed is that the intraparty RP, character builds, and combat sequences, all of which D&D supports well, were great and deserved a much better plot).

[kipperlillyforpresident]

Can I say that I think one of the problems with this season is that it's not about confronting the rage inside you? That's what the villains are about. But it's not been a part of the Bad Kids story at all. At any point. We get the opposite with Gorgug, where he's being encouraged to embrace and balancing his rage in order to grow (which gets even weirder when Porter turns out to be the villain, undercutting basically the one actual character arc that happened this season.) And there's been no other interest in or investment in rage around any other character. Their character development hooks (to the extent that they have them) are all about stress and preparing for the real world. The problem Riz gets confronted with over and over this season is the possibility that his friends aren't as invested in their relationship as he is. The problem Fig encounters is a problem of identity and coping with expectations. Fabain's problem is around loneliness. Kristen's is taking responsibility. Adaine's is navigating the world from a radically changed position. None of the actual problems intended to provoke growth that the characters were confronted with have anything to do with rage. Honestly, even Gorgug's problem only involved rage once Porter got involved, originally his problem was also about identity.

Now, I still think they dodged dealing with those problems too and none of the character's really grew this season. But I think the problem with the Rat Grinder's is that there is a fundamental disconnect between what the villain is doing and who the characters are. And that's kind of makes sense. Character arcs shouldn't respond to the villain. At least, not in an ongoing story like this, a good villain should be created to interfere with who the characters are/want to be. It made sense for the American Dream to be the villain in Unsleeping City because all of the characters had direct ties to striving for that dream. It made sense for The Authors to be the villain in Neverafter because all the characters were struggling with aspects of self-determination and free will. It made sense for The Nightmare King to be the villain in SY because all the characters were asked to confront their fears. At no point, were the character's storylines other than Gorgug this year about confronting rage and violence. And, frankly, I don't think they should have been because it's not a character arc that works particularly well for these characters or for this world (a world where brutal violence is encouraged, characters who have never seen their anger as a problem.) The original character prompts were much better than rage focus. But because they wanted to make Porter the villain, literally just for the bit, the whole thing turned into a thematic mess.

Sorry for the block of text. I've been trying to work out why I agree with so many of the Rat Grinder fans' general complaints but disagree with the specifics of a lot of their criticism. And I think this is it

do NOT apologize anon!! I always appreciate analytical asks like this - and I'm glad that even non-TRG stans find my blog interesting enough to share their thoughts like this.

I think this is... a really REALLY smart ask. It's an incredibly good framework for analyzing why so many people are upset by this season.

And, frankly, I don't think they should have been because it's not a character arc that works particularly well for these characters or for this world (a world where brutal violence is encouraged, characters who have never seen their anger as a problem.)

I think this part of your ask really hits the nail on the head. Because you're right! Brutal violence is seen as bad when the enemies do it, because that's a nominal theme of the season. But when the protagonists have to get to work, it's back to the status quo, and brutality is once again just a fact of life.

I'm going to be chewing on this ask for a while. Thanks for sending it!

[threetrenchcoatsinatrenchcoat]

Rosamund's first two of presumed six trauma counseling / radicalization princess speeches: "Because you were lied to does not mean that everything is a lie. Do not take the crimes of those who have manipulated us and put them at the feet of the world. It's our time to write the story, and we're gonna make the world how we want it." "It is a deep and unsettling dread when you realize that you can, by taking charge, cause harm. It is an even deeper dread when you realize that in taking charge, you will cause harm. You will not make every perfect choice. And the fear that you will make some choice that does some wrong within the world is exactly what your enemies are hoping will stop you. So we do as best as we can to do as good as we can, but not to let the Neverafter fall into the fate that the fairies intend for it."

[polarsirens]

i just wanted to say that your artwork is stunning and your recent neverafter comics live in my head rent-free. the one abt elody captures so much emotion and tenderness, it's just awe-inspiring. thank you for sharing your work with the world and i hope you have a radical day!

wow thank you!! love love loved how that little bit of conversation reveals so much of what he thinks about elody. who knew i’d get so emotional over the frog man?

i’m very happy you like my comics, the horrors and drama of this series makes it so fun to make them. and i’m hoping you have the most fantastic day too 🙏

[oocca]

@hyruin sent : ❛ you know there's nothing i love more than a good boy time. you know i used to be the king of the good boy time. ❜ ( cadenza, for shanti ! ) // dimension 20: neverafter.

good boy time — yes, totally. shanti knew exactly what link meant : good boy time. that is, some good time between boys, which due to recent events, there was a serious total lack of in shanti's life. likely link's life too, thinking about it. he had fulfilled some huge, important duty with the whole curse that was placed over hyrule ( which apparently shanti had missed out on about half of that on behalf of a very long impromptu nap ), and now he was with the princess a lot.

not to say the princess of hyrule didn't seem like a radical young lady, but a boy couldn't have a good boy time with a princess ( unless a girl is also a boy sometimes but that's neither here nor there ).

"we should, like, have a good boy time," he drawled, "together."

although, thinking about it, that was likely the entire point of bringing up boy time in the first place. link's heart must have yearned desperately for a good time between boys. shanti pulled himself from the clear waters of the river that winded into the lake, shaking himself off slightly into the grass, lest he get link wet.

"yeah. totally. let's do some stuff," he decided then, firmly. now, some stuff was vague — he mulled over what stuff they could be doing for their boy time together.

shanti snapped his webbed fingers, as if he had an astounding revelation.

"dude, we should totally go surfing — i don't think i've ever seen you surf. it's all the rage with the zora right now."

[werewolfpdfs]

still thinking abt when lou was talking about pinocchio’s character and said “it’s like every time i fail or have a misstep i suffer the ultimate consequences, and that doesn’t happen to other kids….and i want to know why. what was the goal? why did i have to suffer?”

[werewolfpdfs]

just saw an ask game where one of the options was “the worst take on a character you’ve seen on this site” and i don’t want to do the ask game but i DO want to share that i saw someone say rapunzel neverafter was dehumanizing la bête by calling her “the beast”. lmfao.

[werewolfpdfs]

have some things to say about the nature of towers and isolation and the early versions of rapunzel and the yellow wallpaper and the lady of the house of love and being forgotten and being written out of the story but alas it’s late so i will refrain

[werewolfpdfs]

ALSO princesses neverafter were all having morally ambiguous gay sex it came to me in a dream

[werewolfpdfs]

i will never understand the nva people who were like i can understand the stepmother but not the princesses 😭😭 “wow it must be really hard to suddenly realize you exist within someone else’s narrative and you were created to be a villain” WOW IT MUST BE REALLY HARD TO REALIZE YOU EXIST AS A STATIC NARRATIVE ARCHETYPE AND YOUR ROLE IS TO BE DENIED AGENCY AND ABUSED REPEATEDLY UNTIL YOU ARE SAVED BY A STRANGER YOU WERE MADE TO LOVE

[werewolfpdfs]

did you know that snow white from neverafter is still trapped in the narrative. yeah she tried to write herself out but as long as there are stories she can’t escape. yeah they put her back in the coffin. they’re saying she chose that, sorry. where’s rapunzel? presumably in her tower as her absence implies. cinderella is still cinderella yeah. her mother is still dead.

[werewolfpdfs]

i think when you're doing retellings/reimaginings (especially in a horror context like neverafter) you have to be comfortable engaging with the nature of the story you're talking about. "Some of them were deeply violent" lol. well. obviously.

[werewolfpdfs]

princesses neverafter takes i will not engage with but i will freely make fun of on mine own blog:

princesses have main character privilege

the princesses don’t understand that no one has free will anyway bc determinism

the princesses are worse than the fairies (lol)

the princesses are radical leftists (LOL)

cinderella is contradicting something she said in ep4

the princesses are JUST like the authors

rapunzel is a mean girl

they just don’t Understand what they’re Doing :( (yes they do)

[snow queen mention]

the princesses have Princess Privilege

girlboss fallacy*

the princess apologists want me personally to die in real life

[werewolfpdfs]

they have to stop letting me consume more than one media…..sorry for talking about moash and neverafter it will happen again

[werewolfpdfs]

what if you were a minor antagonist with a past history of abuse/trauma motivating you to support a cause opposed to the wishes of the Main Heroes who considered you Weird and then at the close of the story everyone forgot about your whole deal and you were forced into a limbo state of at once existence and nonexistence. this happened to rapunzel AND yuri vedenen

rattling the bars of my cage what happened to rapunzel neverafter